WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! F'n BEAST!!!!!! cannot wait

What model year will this available?

Well, it's about time ford stepped it up in the diesel market. Nice to see they are finally offering a six speed auto. Of course, not too long after this diesel comes out, GM will probably have one that has well over 400 hp and close to 800 ft/lbs of torque.

I noticed that in the picture that the truck was being jump
charged. It seems that keeping Diesels charged with enough
battery remains a big concern in areas where extreme cold
impairs morning starting. This may remain the biggest down
side to owning a Diesel. Many such owners carry assist jump
cells to assist winter starts. Any comments?

You can see much more of the engine by simply adjusting the shadows in photoshop.

Also about the hood I dont think they would do that on a production model see the grille that remains below looks as if it was cut off ford would not have a grille that is cut like that so it will probably lift up with the production hood.

Regarding the comment on Chevy........their current 6.6L engine arhitecture would not support a 400/800 offering. To introduce an all new architecture for those targets would require a level of investment that GM cannot afford at this moment in time.

I heard that this is shelved indefinately due to the economy just last week.

How could it be shelved indefinetly? The 6.4 does not meet 2010 emission regs. They have to have something that does

Aluminum heads on a "heavy duty" diesel? Aluminum heads offer nothing more than weight savings. They are weaker and make less power (due to the greater loss of combustion temps) vs iron heads. From an emission standpoint, lower combustion temps are beneficial, but from a power making standpoint, your heads are going to warp with high EGTs or lots of boost.

It makes sense on the 4.5L Duramax because it needs to be as light as possible for 1/2 ton and SUV applications. But on a heavy truck, the 75lbs or so saved come at the huge cost of durability.

And a MAF sensor on a turbodiesel? Why?

This could be a bad sign for the Ford diesel performance crowd.

Maybe its just me that thinks this, but that has to be the ugliest hood I've seen. I'm sure it's just that way because it's a prototype and it doesn't really matter, hopefully anyway.

fordftw:

My 2003 6.0 has a MAF on it, it has been around awhile. The 6.6 Duramax has had aluminum heads through out its production I do believe, they work pretty well for them. I'm guessing that this design will be beneficial to the performance crowd, likely going to have stronger and more headbolts then the current diesels offer which has been the major down fall of them at a performance point of view, although the 6.4 seems to be better off.

Not one comment on the made in Mexico? Come on Ford WTF?
US Truck, American icon, needs to have its "heart" made in USA by Americans!!!!

Looks like another service nightmare. DPF, EGR, SCR, less durability and higher fuel consuption? Probably a $12,000 option. No thanks.

@Big Bob - How do you figure it will get "higher fuel consumption" when it's suppose to get 3 mpg better fuel economy... FYI, It shouldn't be a service nightmare because Navistar didn't have a hand in the design. This was all done in-house at Ford.

I hope for Ford's sake this Scorpion engine will be a success. But the real question is can they make it affordable to the buying public. Especially considering the cost of emissions hardware and fuel prices. And yes the maintenance to that hardware. No doubt this exhaust will have Urea included as part of it's design and that means more trips to the dealer for replenishment. You also have the periodic EGR and DPF clean outs which we never had to face years back. And the really big question is "Does Ford know how to build a diesel?" Sure, they do a great job on gas engines. But the jury is still out on this new product offering.

hey diesel enthusiast ever hear of Ford Tractor or currently New Holland, Ford built diesels for tractors for years and do so in other countries now in all sorts of vehicles

Ford has been making diesel engines since before most of you were born. All of their European cars and trucks have a diesel option and the majority of their sales are diesel same as all other Euro manufacturers. Not sure about the Scorpion but they have collaborated with Peugeot on past Euro diesel designs.

as for who said, Chevy would come out with a bigger motor, they cant afford it lol, and even if they did, dont all gm, and dodge engines claim more HP, and Torque, but still dotn tow as much.

"Aluminum heads offer nothing more than weight savings. They are weaker and make less power (due to the greater loss of combustion temps) vs iron heads. From an emission standpoint, lower combustion temps are beneficial, but from a power making standpoint, your heads are going to warp with high EGTs or lots of boost"

Well...nothing ever changes for morons afflicted severe shortsightnedness (ie crainal rectal inversion)

Detroit's 'wonder metal' (cast iron) over reliance is just one (of many) why Asia/Euro land makes world class (not only oil burner) engine platforms.

I occassionly read these forums for more of s#its & giggles as to the blind (and rabid) ignorance that many (all brands...but especially the Dodge & Ford owners) display.

Sadly, the owners (blind) loyality seems on par with the leadership of the American auto industry. So when the axe falls (notice what Damiler wrote down their remaining 20% holding of Chrysler...from 180m...to Zero), and it will, get use to a world class (gas and oil burner) engine plarforms that will be designed/built outside the USA.

Cue Bruce (Springsteen) ..welcome to the brave new world!

It is sooooo over:(

"...NOx is a major air pollutant that contributes to smog, asthma, and respiratory and heart diseases...."

This statement is a bit misleading. NOx is a pollutant, but it has the capability of either generating or DESTROYING ozone (the primary constituent of "smog"), depending on ambient conditions. This is something that even EPA acknowledges (even though they've gone ahead and promulgated regulations to drastically reduce NOx emissions anyway).

In actuality, hydrocarbon emissions are primarily responsible for "smog" in metropolitan areas of the U.S. That's why these arcane regs targeting NOx may have the unintended consequence of making smog WORSE if they encourage gasoline vehicles at the expense of diesel vehicles.

Will there be a GM in 2010?

Posted by: Space_Cowboy_NW | Mar 14, 2009 11:31:19 PM

Detroit's 'wonder metal' (cast iron) over reliance is just one (of many) why Asia/Euro land makes world class (not only oil burner) engine platforms.
---------------

The Scorpions engine is made of compacted graphite iron in the block, just as the high tech Audis and Jaguars in Europe. Navistar is using it in their Maxforce-diesels at 11 and 13 liters. A genuine "wondermetal" from the Brazilian foundry Tupy. 80 % of the Nascars racers are already using it.

Sorry I haven't followed my own line of comments. I can assure that this information isn't some 14 year old spouting off. I comes from a Tier 1 vendor.

The way that Ford may not show up with the new engine on time is that they don't have the R&D dollars to make it complete any time soon. I will be happy to not take another engine that the heads will blow off of if I have to be patient another year, maybe longer with the economy.

They have paid credits to keep that old craptastic 6.0 in the E series to this day. They may make a business decision to do the same for the equally loved 6.4.

I can't wait for the scorpion as it will make the chassis that I buy much better if they show up with the quality of product that I expect from them. The people in my industry have had it with the Navistar products and are looking to an in-house product where they can't blame a vendor at least.

I think ford should use a caterpillar inline 6 7.2L. that engine would kill the cummins i know i would buy it.

To boston - While I agree that a Cat diesel in a Ford pickup would be a great thing, it won't happen. Cat is getting out of the on-highway diesel engine market, and, if I am not mistaken, Detroit is doing the same.

hey diesel enthusiast ever hear of Ford Tractor or currently New Holland, Ford built diesels for tractors for years and do so in other countries now in all sorts of vehicles
---------------------------

This is true, but has nothing to do with the "non performance" of the Ford Auto Diesel. I have had them all and the one that I have never had a problem with is the Duramax. I am not a diesel expert, but I have used them for years. Every Ford that I have had has failed repeatedly. They obviously do not know (or have forgotten) how to build a FUNCTIONAL all around engine. The performance is even better in the Duramax than the Cummins or the Ford diesel. I need something that is not a POS that will break down any chance it gets and is nice to drive. That's why I drive a Duramax. Think I'm crazy? I speak from experience. See what popular mechanics thinks:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4230317.html

If Chrysler goes belly-up why doesn't Ford just get the Cummins engine? Its already in the F-650/750. Exclusive after 2010 I hear. Weren't they making a small diesel for the 1/2 ton Ram 1500 that would work in the F-150 instead. It would finally get the best engine in the best truck.

Well for all you GM lovers, GM has put a stop to all its diesel production, so come 2010 GM wont have a diesel anymore. Thats if they stay in business for that long.

to
: GENUINE FORD PARTS thats true what about a perkins or even a volvo 5.7l (TAD6620ve) both are inline diesels and thats what the people want

thats true but ford still ownes volvo and they could use the 5.7l i-6 or the 6.0 i-6 . ford could use perkins . ford shoul just build a i-6 insted of a v8 there is more and cheaper performance parts and thats what people want PERFORMANCE!!

Hey Jusyin, I think you are overexaggeratting how good GM is. They can't be number one at everything, but it seems u clearly think that faggit.

I am excited about this engine and transmission. I have been selling Ford trucks for 19 years, and this is big. The factory reps are hush-hush, look for the new truck to debut at the Texas State Fair 2009 as a 2010 model. That is all the inside info I am allowed to provide.

Aluminum is not an "all one kind" material. Very high strength alloys are available. Even stronger composites can be specified. Other variables include casting quality; tolerance control levels, cylinder head shape and thickness design, and water coolant passage design. After-casting treatment options are many, including high isostatic pressure metal consolidation, often called "HP'ing. Metal can further be heat treated and shotpeened, either with metal shot or with lasers. Differential thermal expansions of aluminum and cast iron can be minimized by additions of silicon to the aluminum alloy. Multi-layer steel head gaskets also improve an engine's ability to tolerate differential head expansion and movement. Head bolts can be threaded into the block near the crankshaft area, thus providing longer bolts with more elasticity to absorb aluminum head expansion and contraction. Still more can be done: bellevue ("dished" washers) allow still more ability for the engine to tolerate differential expansions. The key variables in diesel engine life for a given size and use of engine are much more related R&D time, quality control, and manufacturing financial support than the choice of aluminum or iron for the cylinder heads.

They have had MAF sensors on them for 15 years.

Made in Mexico - BIG MISTAKE! I thought Ford wanted a reliable engine to replace the 6.4L. I have yet to see anything of quality built in Mexico. If someone can show me one quality item made in Mexico, I'd like to see it. Japan, yes. U.S., yes. Mexico, no. Look at all the build quality problems they have with the Dodge Ram HDs. Those things are thrown together with no care. If it was built with quality in the US, I'd buy one.

You better do your homework, aluminum heads are NOT lighter. They take more material to be the same strength. They are easier to make and repair, though. As far as you comment on reading these forums to laugh at the idiots, you're right there is always someone like yourself that makes us laugh. Adios Paco

@Paco: Stop back in a month or so and we'll chat again about aluminum cylinder heads. :-)

if ford comes out with the new superduty looking like what they are using as a test vehicale with that ugly hood, you can count on losing alot of sales because i will definitly not buy another. you just handed the other diesels the market.

Ford is no stranger to diesels having supplied them in Europe for decades. The Ford tractors were lighyears ahead of most of the competition in economy and torque not to mention long life. Ford Focus in Europe is mainly diesel from my information and their industrial engines are excellent. I just hope they do not kill power and economy with usless emission equipment. As for aluminum heads they can be designed to do the job just as in auto racing.

A better idea would be to make a 6 cyl diesel along the same lines as the cummins. You know less moving parts and less to go wrong !!! The Japs do the same thing . They take our designs and find ways to improve them and then throw them back at us cheaper than we are selling ours for. It just boils down to greed--- Ford is going to make money on us one way or the other by selling us junk motors like the 6.0 and then we spend money hand over fist to repair it over and over. Somebody be a real PATRIOT and do something for AMERICA !! Come on FORD you would sell a lot more if you made a great product. I thinking about going else where for my next truck ----

its fun to read the screwed up opions some of you have. Im a Cummins fan, but do work on the scorpion. Will definitly buy one once it comes out. Finally they got rid of that stupid Power Joke with the Siemens junk.
Ofcause Ford can make a great diesel. They got AVL and Bosch involved and brought alot of experience over from their german based development center. Ford is the only one of the big 3 that really does their home work, thats why they are not in financial trouble. Mexico as a production site is a good choice, like it or not american customers what it cheap.

"thats true but ford still ownes volvo and they could use the 5.7l i-6 or the 6.0 i-6"
Volvo not Ford owns those diesels. Volvo the car maker is currently owned by Ford. Volvo manufactures Trucks, Marine, Aircraft and Industrial/Agricultural equipment.

@Paco
Aluminum cyllinder heads certainly can be lighter than iron! Aluminum is stronger than steel by weight, but not by volume. So you're right that it will take more cubic inches of aluminum to make a head, it will still weigh less than the equal strength iron head. You can get a bunch of other issues with aluminum head, but as marvinlee pointed out there are plenty of things you can do to compensate for that.

As a Ford diesel technician, first I'll say the 6.0 is far superior to the 6.4. Jackasses who read diesel power are generally the problem with Ford diesels. Enough money for lift kits, gigantic street? tire/wheel combos, a Banks engine destroyer and megawatt stereos, but none for oil changes, fuel filters or good fuel. Keep in mind the EPA is to blame for all of the 6.0 problems except the stretchy head bolts. Studs and egr delete and its a stout, dependable rig.

Wow I just bought a new 09 Super Duty and I am outdated already.I wish I had known this was coming out so soon.

Here is the PM aticle on the new Ford Diesel engine. Published on 31 Aug 2009. http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4329221.html

yeah, way to go Ford. You can't even build a decent gas engine. Now you are going to try a diesel. GOOD LUCK!

BRING BACK THE 7.3, TO HELL WITH THE HIPPIES!

guys, i think that this engine could be good, im not gonna be skeptical yet but i have faith. to the guy who said hes had problems with ford "POS" diesels, i dont think he owned a 7.3L and he obviously didnt take care of it he said it himself that he didnt know much about diesels. every engine has its ups and downs, like previously stated, EGR delete and head studs and your 6.0 will be good. the six liter was simply rushed into production so it still had problems that didnt get worked out. emissions laws are going to kill the on highway diesel industrys. it should be interesting.

I have had numerous diesel engines starting with Benz, GM 5.7 and 6.2 and finally endind with the last 7.3 Powerstroke in a truck. The best have been Benz, the worst the GM 6.2.

I currently am preparing to sell my '02 F550. I am planning on waiting for the Scorpion engine. Powerstrokes were ok as 7.3's but everything after that has been dismal. The worst parts relate to maintenance costs for 6.0 and 6.4.

Ford has been in the Diesel Engine biz for years domestically as well as in Europe. They already have a 6.6L engine that was used for years in mid range trucks which is an in-line six that proved to be a decent motor. The problem is emissions.

Love and hate for a given truck is regional. GM Duramax engines pop pistons and wrist pins on sub zero cold starts. I have a friend who works for a northern Minnesota Mining concern. They bought 59 Duramax equipped trucks. They have replaced the engines in all 59 of them and several have munched more than one. GM has cheerfully waranteed all of them, but, the down time has been unacceptable.

The same company had Dodges. The engines were great, but they had front end problems with the Dodges.

Alloy diesels are nothing new. They have existed for many decades in many applications including marine engines and they have served very well. In fact, Peugeot Diesels successfully used combinations meaning an iron block and an aluminum head on many of their engines. Mercedes has used alloy diesels in trucks and busses. M.A.N has used alloy in heavy trucks, and they are not alone.

Diesels will be here within two years in big numbers. I am very sorry for GM. If they discontinue diesel engines they will no longer be competetive in the 3/4 to 1.5 ton market.

As it is, Mahindra and what is coming in from them has the potential of scrubbing most of the US half ton trucks with their clean turbodiesel which is going to be hitting US shores soon. They have already signed up 300 dealers in the U.S.

GM is in fact stupid as usual. There is an aftermarket manufacturer marketing kits to install the Isuzu 3.9 from the NPR mid ranger in the 1/2 tons. They already have a perfect engine in the 5.2L 225 horsepower 4 cylinder from this same truck in the 1/2 ton pickups. The aftermarket conversions are getting over 30mpg when you yank a 4.3 gasser and substitute the 3.9. The 5.2 already has the smog technology and certifying it would only be a matter of calibration. As usual GM will never do the obvious and save money, they love to reinvent the wheel, go with something unproven, and have a failure.

Diesel is the future in heavier vehicles. Diesels can be cleaned up with current technology and there is a lower impact on performance with cleaning diesel than with cleaning up gasoline.

We will have to wait for the future to see what they do in reality and which if any of the rumors are in fact true.....