The Top 7 Features of Ford’s All-New 6R140 Six-Speed Heavy-Duty Transmission

The Top 7 Features of Ford’s All-New 6R140 Six-Speed Heavy-Duty Transmission

Ford's technically advanced and unconventional new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel will debut early next year in the 2011 Ford F-Series Super Duty lineup. No matter how powerful and sophisticated Ford's new oil burner is engineered to be, it won't be considered successful without a transmission capable of managing all of that horsepower and torque as well as efficiently sending that power to the wheels to tow and haul heavy loads. That's where Ford's new 6R140 TorqShift six-speed automatic gearbox comes in.

Like the new Power Stroke V-8, Ford designed and engineered the 6R140 entirely in-house. Al Bruck, Ford’s 6R140 transmission engineering manager, says it’s a clean sheet design and represents the next generation beyond the 2008-10 Super Duty’s current 5R110 five-speed automatic transmission.

“This isn’t an evolutionary design with limitations and we built from that,” Bruck said. “Our benchmark for the 6R140 is the current Allison 1000 transmission used in GM’s heavy-duty pickups. We’ve got greater capability than the Allison, and we’re about 25 pounds lighter.”

The dry weight of the 6R140 is approximately 325 pounds and about 350 pounds when filled with transmission fluid.

Bruck says that it’s not a single component that makes the 6R140 competitive but a series of interdependent features that add up to make this the most capable transmission Ford has ever offered in the Super Duty. We’ve broken them down into the top seven features of Ford’s all-new 6R140 heavy-duty automatic transmission.

6r140-5-560
The 6R140 uses a long-travel steel turbine damper that's welded directly to the torque converter's turbine. The damper allows the powertrain to idle as low as 900 rpm and helps control torque input from the 6.7-liter V-8 diesel

1. Works with Ford’s Gas and Diesel Engines

Unlike GM's and Chrysler's heavy-duty trucks, which use separate transmissions for gas and diesel powertrains, Ford's latest HD pickups continue to share a single transmission for both applications. The 6R140 has to be flexible and intelligent enough to accommodate the low-end grunt of the 6.7-liter diesel and higher-revving peak power curve of Ford's new 6.2-liter V-8 gasser.

How does Ford adapt the transmission for each engine? The 6R140 uses a different torque converter, clutch plates, friction paper and shift schedule software calibrations depending on the motor. That’s it.

2. Single-Piece Housing

While other transmission housings are comprised of multiple pieces bolted together, like GM’s three-piece case for the Allison 1000 transmission, the 6R140 uses a single-piece, deep-skirted case. Ford says the advantages of this design are that it’s quieter, saves weight by doing away with fasteners between body pieces and eliminates the possibility of fluid leak points at the join points.

“From the back flange of the engine block to the slip yolk at the back of the transmission is a single-piece casting,” Bruck said. “It’s a very efficient use of material for improved NVH and leak performance. It’s also much stiffer since we can eliminate the points where bending might occur.”

The only points where the transmission can leak are at the rear seal and the front seal near the torque converter.

Ford has also designed large drainage openings inside the housing to circulate transmission fluid in large volumes between the gears and clutches and fluid sump at the bottom of the housing. New friction plates in the clutches help to quickly drain fluid to reduce fluid resistance.

In the event that the transmission requires service, instead of disassembling the case like a conventional transmission, nearly all jobs start and end at the torque converter side of the gearbox. The 6R140’s components are modularly constructed to help facilitate removal from the barrel.

3. Improved Fuel Economy

Fuel economy is at the top of most truck operator’s minds these days, and the transmission plays a critical role optimizing it. The 6R140 uses several technical tricks to make promised improvements to the Super Duty’s mileage. One way fuel economy has been improved in the 6R140 is through the use of an early lockup closed piston torque converter, Bruck said.

The torque converter in an automatic transmission does the same job as a clutch in a manual transmission.

How does this improve mileage? When a torque converter is disengaged, the engine is still running but it’s not driving the wheels via the transmission, so fuel is wasted. This is important if you’re driving a vehicle with an automatic transmission, so it won’t stall at a stoplight. When you get going again, engaging the torque converter at a lower rpm means power can be sent to the wheels sooner, thereby improving fuel economy. Think of it as taking some of a manual transmission's inherent fuel economy advantages and applying them to an automatic gearbox.

"The lockup [strategy] depends on pedal positioning," Bruck said. "We've done a lot of work monitoring fuel rates at different speeds, different pedal rates and different gears to optimize the 6R140 for both gas and diesel."

6r140-2-560
The all-new torque converter helps improve fuel economy and directly links the segment-first Live Drive PTO to the crankshaft

As you might expect, there are different lockup strategies for the gas and diesel engines.

"There are advantages to not locking it up as early with the gas engine as we do for the diesel," he said. "The way we do it for the diesel, in full automatic mode, during a normal upshift, is to lock the converter between third and fourth and stay locked up through sixth. We're more aggressive locking up the torque converter earlier in tow/haul mode and manual mode."

Tow/haul mode is used in HD automatic transmissions to hold gears longer and keep engine rpms higher during towing and hauling situations so adequate power is available at all times, especially during upshifts to help prevent the truck from lugging after the shift.

Manual mode allows the driver to manually shift the automatic transmission up and down like a manual gearbox as long as the transmission doesn't exceed the engine’s rpm redline or stall the engine.

The torque converter also features a long-travel steel turbine damper that's welded directly to the torque converter's turbine. The damper, which is actually a set of springs arranged in a square pattern, limits the transmission of inertial forces produced by the 6.7-liter V-8, so they aren't transmitted to the transmission's input shaft all at once when the torque converter is locked or open. The damper allows the powertrain to idle as low as 900 rpm.

“The long-travel damper is like a long spring body that can wind up as rpms drop and diesel torque increases,” Bruck said. “And the lower the engine speed, the better the fuel economy.”

Like other competitive six-speed transmissions, the 6R140 offers two overdrive gears to improve fuel economy at highway speeds. The overdrive gears help the truck lope along at lower engine rpms.

4. Range Select and Manual Shift Functions

If a Super Duty driver wants custom control over the 6R140, they can switch from full automatic or tow/haul modes into Progressive Range Select or Manual modes. Range Select is activated via a toggle on the shift lever that allows the customer to reduce the range of available gears while in Drive. When the customer “taps” down into Range Select mode, the display shows the available gears and highlights the current gear state. This feature allows the driver to limit use of upper gears when heavily loaded or while towing on grades. It’s especially helpful in terrain that includes constant hills when towing.

In manual mode, the driver can select the exact gear they desire, as long as they don’t go over redline. The display will show the selected gear, and the control system will lock the torque converter and hold that gear for a full manual transmission feel. Manual mode is Ford’s way of making up for the loss of a standard ZF six-speed manual transmission, which goes away for 2011.

5. Live Drive Power Takeoff

Ford says the 6R140 transmission will be the first gearbox in the segment to offer what it calls Live Drive Power Takeoff.

Power Takeoff is used to power auxiliary tools, like generators or salt spreaders, off of the engine.

By linking the PTO’s output gear directly to the engine crank via a flex-plate connected to the torque converter housing, the PTO output gear continues to turn as long as the engine is turning, even if the truck is completely stopped and the torque converter is disconnected to keep the engine from stalling. In the outgoing 5R110, the PTO is linked directly to the turbine shaft.

“It’s capable of mobile and stationary PTO,” Bruck said. “This will enhance the capability of PTO products that are available today.

6. New Ravigneaux Powerflow Gearset

6r140-3-560
The power-dense sinter-brazed Ravigneaux gear carrier manages the torque of the new 6.7-liter diesel and the high-speed shifts of the new 6.2-liter gas engines

The 6R140 uses a new tough sinter-brazed Ravigneaux planetary gearset to carry engine torque without artificially limiting torque at launch to preserve transmission hardware. It’s a stout compound set of interconnected gears that acts as a two-in-one gearset, with one planetary carrier that’s common to two sets of planetary pinions, two sun gears and one common ring gear. It’s also capable of handling the high shift speeds of the gas engine and high torque loads of the 6.7-liter diesel.

“This gearset has plenty of headroom,” Bruck said. “It’s not stretched with our launch torque limits. When you see it side by side with the Allison’s gearset, you’ll say that these guys are playing in the same sandbox.”

The powerflow gearset’s housing is made from powdered metal. Normally used to create components like an engine’s connecting rods, a metal powder is poured into a mold and heavily compressed with a mating die. When it’s removed, a binder holds the powder together; it’s then sintered into its final form, which is nearly as dense as steel. It can be double-pressed again after sintering to make it stronger through greater density. Powdered metal provides all of the features of a steel part without requiring machining.

A Ford-patented rocker one-way clutch is integrated with the torque carrier and helps improve 1-2 shift quality through the gearset. It’s carried over from the 5R110 transmission.

7. 150,000-Mile Maintenance Schedule

To help lower operating costs, the 6R140 uses an internal “dual-media” filter that’s split into two mesh components – a coarse-grained filter and a fine-grained filter. The coarse-grained filter cleans about 90 percent of the transmission fluid in the gearbox while the fine-grained filter continuously cleans about 10 percent of the volume. Over time, both large and small contaminants are removed from the fluid, extending its maintenance cycle to 150,000 miles. For comparison, the current 5R110 has a 60,000-mile change interval.

“The concept is that over time you get a very effective cleaning,” Bruck said. “You don’t have to draw everything through the fine media, which is very inefficient and doesn’t work well in cold conditions. The dual-media setup uses a pressure balance to draw fluid into the fine media while everything goes through the coarse media. You reach an equilibrium of very clean fluid over time.”

6r140-4-560
Main control assembly and new dual-media filter with 150,000-mile change interval. Note how these components are located inside the single-piece transmission case.

The internal dual-media filter removes the need for an external filter, which also eliminates another potential leak point for the transmission.

“We studied doing a spin-on [filter], but the numbers we collected proved we could do it all internally,” he said. “Now we’re working to see if we can push the [maintenance interval] number even higher.”

One interesting point about the transmission fluid used in the 6R140 is that Ford has created a new standard that will see most of its vehicles use the same transmission fluid regardless of application. Transmission fluid for the Super Duty will be the same as the Ford F-150 half-ton pickup and other vehicles like the Ford Fusion sedan and Ford Escape.

“There’s been a lot of work done to migrate all of the vehicles to the same common fluid,” Bruck said.

Comments

Looks pretty good. I see Ford admits to using the Allison as a benchmark. Also good to see it is made in the U.S.A., UNLIKE the new 6.7L MEXI-STROKE Diesel!

AN all new Engine and transmission for the Super duty sounds nice on paper but with the track record of Ford trucks has been something of a shame. WHY didn't they do a new body style rather than the same sheet metal (except for different Grill and lights). BORING. Its about time FORD admitted who has the best transmission ALLISON of course.. Maybe if ford keeps trying what the competition does they may get it right some day..That will be when they use an I6 diesel engine like the CUMMINS. A real diesel engine with years of history.

Meh...Ford built it......so reliability is a big unknown....

GM and Dodge have always had better HD trucks...and this "new" trans won't change that. The Allison is still the one to beat and you can better believe that they won't be beaten at their own game by some Ford-built POS.

GM and Dodge have always HAD better trucks. Well put. Not anymore. Support those socialist horsepucky companies if you want.

Why are GM guys so angry?

It was hard to believe the old Torq-Shift was as strong a transmission as the Allison when Ford would only use the Allison in the F-650 and 750. And of course those big Fords usually came with a Cummins diesel too.

I had to say it, GM and Dodge guys keep dreaming, ford really has built the only true heavy duty truck, I got one work for you C6 in my 1995 F-150 is still the best in the game, ford builds the best tranny.

I'll take an Allison for that truck, thanks!

Nice to see the stamp "made in the usa". Would like to see that a little more. Interesting how this will accomodate both engines. Makes you wonder if going to full auto and dropping the manual will hurt their sales?

Yea there is a one million mile cummins it was in a diesel power i love ford trucks the allison trans is ok nothing to brag about but who cares for autos manuals is the way to go in a real truck

@Big Bob the allison trans that ford uses in the mdt is a 3000 series... a little different then the 1000 series found in the pickups... oh how are gms mdt doing again? i give ford props for engineering their own engines and transmissions... i guess they got a bad taste with the 6l so well see how they do now that it rests solely on them

WOW so many HATERS ...... On what FORD makes themselves ..... Sad GMJUNK an DODGECRAP can't make there own ENGINES or TRANNIES .... The HATERS always flock to the REAL NEWS ....... So whos got the PURE TRUCK NOW ?

"i guess they got a bad taste with the 6l so well see how they do now that it rests solely on them"

Remember...all of the 6.0s issues were because of Ford's requirements...and not listening to Navistar (why listen to the manufacturer...really).

Navistar did not have NEAR the problems with the 6.0 (called VT365) that Ford did. Ford was the reason the 6.0 was junk.

Which is why everyone should think long and hard about getting another Ford Super Doodie. Not only are the capability claims way over-estimated...but Ford has a track record of building poor products.

Well, on paper it sounds cool and interesting, but let's just wait until those new engines and transmissions are on the street under real conditions for a few years before we start claiming Ford the "King" of everything in the Heavy Duty market. Ford has screwed the pooch way too many times for me to believe that their new engines and transmissions are going to be the next best thing since sliced bread. Allison has been building transmissions for many, many years and they know what works and what doesn't. I'll keep buying a GM Heavy Duty knowing it will hold up and last. I'm sure GM and Allison have a few tricks up their sleeves as well. They're not going to just roll over, GM's upgraded Duramax coming out is going to be very powerful!

LMFAO !!!!! Ford is this Ford is that ford had this Problem Ford had that Problem They out SELL all of GM an DODGE .... your not changin anyones mind about goin GM or DODGE PFFF..... They all have had there PROBLEMS ... ONLY REASON DODGE SELLS HD TRUCKS cause of the CUMMINS MOTOR an u know it ... AN ONLY people that buy GM IS the DIEHARD BOWTIE BOYS ... Capability lmao They all do the same things ... EVEN my 2006 v10 can do the same as your Little diesels ... an yes I have driven all 4 makes ....There all the same

Ooooo, Ahhhhh, if Ford made it, it's the best ever. PUKE

Ahh, 'scuse me, but Ford uses both the 2000 and 3000 Allisons in the 650 and 750, and we all know (those of use that run the big trucks) that there are very few differences between the 1000 and 2000 Allisons. Basically, a park position is about it. Also, while GM is at least temporarily out of the medium duty game, once again those who are in the know know that Ford has not built a medium truck since 2002. your current 650 and 750 models are built by International, and the cab is the only Ford part you will find on those trucks. But in any event it is good to see Ford design their own heavy duty transmission. It does look like it will be a good one.

Looks like Ford is still playing catch-up to Chevy/GMC's heavy duty with the Allison automatic, maybe this new 6 speed will keep the Fords from being blown away in the next pickuptruck.com incline pull. The bad news is Ford will never have the quality or precision of Allison's automatics who are a 60 years ahead of the world with heavy duty auto-tranny experience. The good news is Ford lovers are ignorant and believe anything Ford says, I just wish Ford would tell its vehicle buyers that a turn signal should be used when turning and shut off when driving straight.

Wow! Good job to Beech Daly Technical Center on the cut-a-way of this transmission. It looks awesome!!

The GM haters are mad because they feel threatened.

Good for Ford, sounds like a nice trannie, smokes the allison across the board including maintenance cycles.

it'sssss amasing

i will tell you the truth about fords super duty trucks!!!

i personally had the opertunity to drive a 2008 f450,crewcab ,with the 6.4 auto 5 speed ,pulling a 53 foot goose neck trailer from detorit to las vegas.
inside the trailer were the following,2010 C J, 2010 snake,
2 sets of slicks,tools,oil,extra rear, extra trans,6 cases of water,(you know ,going to the desert), enough clothes for two guys, and enough clothes for one woman!!! we were going to the oct. race at the strip and then the SEMA show.
well, i have logged over 6million miles in a 18 wheeler, so i think i have a good understanding about what it takes to drive a good ,BAD, and so so piece of equipment.

we left detorit at 2pm after media day, for the 2010 CJ,WWWWWOOOOWWWW!!!!

the speed limit in mi. for trucks is 55!!
first fuel up was in il.,which also has a 55 mph.
in. is 60.
we adveraged 10.9 mph.

ithought this was great!!

get out in iowa ,neb., colo., and the mph is 70 to 75..

well let me tell you , all you have to do is set the cruise control to what ever speed you desire ,set back and relax, and dont worry about any thing...

how many of you have been over the rockies?

well the high point is ,14,600 feet.

remember, i said set the cruise and relax. i did, itopped the top at 65mph, tapped the brakes once and came down the west side ,no smoke, no overspeed, again just relax..

i'v jammed gears for most of my adult life, and iv never been this impressed..

the new engine and trans. for early next year will be a BIG SUCCESS!!!!!!
by the way, i own a 2003 f350 with a manuel trans and now when i drive it i feel like im driving a model TTT.
i do put approx. 90,000 miles a year on this truck, pulling the same trailer..

of course i wouldn/t know about real trucks, or real drivers.

FORD, keep up the great work!!!
OH just a note,

2009 CJ
WOW

2010CJ

OFF the HOOOOOOK!!

Engineering marvel! It's GREAT to see FORD recognize the Allison tranny...and design one that is better. This is what makes FORD SuperDuty the best HD truck. The engineers don't sit back and hope the truck is better, they design it that way.

Now in regards to Dudge and chebby...stay out of the way...The SuperDuty is coming through! Keep on truckin...

@BigBob- Although the 6.7 is being put together in Mexico, a high percentage of the components are from US suppliers. On top of that, the engineering for the engine was all done in Dearborn, and that represents HIGH PAYING jobs...

*For 2500/3500 HD trucks, Ford F-250/F-350 were always on top.

**For 1500 pickup trucks, I only like the Chevy Silverados/GMC Sierras.

1. It's best if Ford kept the current body style from 1999 - current. It suits the HD truck perfectly. Changing the design of the tailgate was perfect. Changing the grille/headlights could be debatable. (I wish Ford still kept the grille and hood of the 1999-2007 trucks.)

2. For 2500/3500, GM has nothing on Ford. GM screwed themselves when they got rid of the front straight axle in 1988. HD frame, HD suspension (including straight front axle), and HD mechanical features is what makes a HD pickup truck. Ford has all of these HD features.

3. Anything Chrysler/Dodge looks cheap. Plus, the wheels fall off. I took it as a joke until I saw it happen a couple of times.

When it comes to transmissions software is as important as hardware, the allison software is awesome. I hope ford has good software to run this seemingly awesome hardware.

You guys/gals are laughable. I'll admit, the Cummins ss the best motor "currently" on the HD market. But that isn't built by Dodge, they just use it. The Allison is "currently" the best tranny on the HD market. But again isn't built by GM. The best "overall" HD truck on the market, as it has been for years now is the F250/350. They don't put all their eggs in just a motor or tranny, which is built by someone else, they perfect the entire truck. Sure they had some issues with the 6.0L, but who hasn't have motor issues here or there? Anyone remember the GM 350 diesel, what a joke. Either way, I am happy to see Ford develop their own Tranny & Diesel and to see them put to the test. I have no doubt, from previous products, that Ford will continue to be #1 in the HD light duty trucks. Of course we should all expect a few growing pains (always with 1st year models), and for the Dodge/GM haters to say "I told you so" over a few minor and quickly fixed issues. In the long run, the new PSD & TorqShift will prove to be the best combo on the market.

I love how some people are saying this thing is going to kill the Allison (the best tranny on the market) when it isn't even out on the market yet.... This Tranny is going to have to be pretty good to top the Allison.

Sometimes you ford guys make me laugh

Glad to see Ford making improvements in their Automatic Transmissions, which in the later years see to be their weakness in HD Trucks!

At onetime Ford built one of the best Automatic Transmissions of any manufacterer!

The C6 3 speed Automatic built from the late sixties to late eighties was a great one! I have own many trucks E350-E150 Vans and F 100-150 pickups in the 1970 thru 1985 era and some are still running at 300000 miles, they have pulled trailers and loaded to max! Hardy any maintence and very few fluid changes!

Then in the ninties I bought Vans hauling the same loads as the old model E-350 -E150, Fords 4 Speed Automatic would not last, or the Torque Converters would fail, etc!

Glad to see Ford finally getting is act back together in automatic transmissions!

Most (all?) of Fords recent issues with their super duty have been related to last 2 diesels, which someone else made, now they are making their own. I have no doubt it'll be plenty reliable, but they need to move away from the DEF silliness...

Everyone slags Ford for not having the best transmission, or the best engine, or the most horsepower, or the most torque. They slag Ford for not having the best riding truck, or not the best looking.... I agree that is all true!
BUT, the question needs to be asked: if Ford does not excell in any one category, then why are they consistently NUMBER ONE in sales?
I think that is because Ford has the best overall package. Most tests indicate the same thing. It takes more than an excellent motor, or transmission, or body to make a good truck. It takes all of those individual parts working together to make a good truck. Ford may be "Mister Average" , but that is what it takes to get the job done!

Today, I'm picking up my 2001 F250 from the transmission shop. For the second transmission. The first lasted 60k, the second lasted 50k.....and the truck is just a 5.4 used to as a daily drive and towed several weekends a year. The truck is not taxed. I'm neutral as far as brand loyalty, so I'll probably look at GM next time....

Our 2001 F150 with a 5.4 has almost 102k miles on it and a good bit of that was pulling a fifth-wheel travel trailer. No transmissions problems, not sure if they used the same transmission back then (I know they don't now).

this tranny looks and sounds impressive. we will see. the allison tranny is ok but fords current torqueshift is better period. also, at least ford has the guts to build its own engine and tranny. who else is doing that? no one is.

ford people you no you drive the worst diesel engine and the second worst transmission,maybe whit the new ford diesel and tranny.you be proud for one to drive your ford,we no gm duramax and the allison transmission,are the best on the market,ok the cummins is good to,anyway..maybe for one time in your life,you don't look the order truck tailgate...

When has the current five speed torqshift been unrealiable? To me, it was the best thing on the 6.0 and 6.4 trucks.

Dan,

the only people that think the 5 speed-torque is better then the 6-speed Allison are Ford fan boys.

Just read the diesel face off reviews on this site. The Duramax and Allison haul some serious a$$ and the Allison is a major part of that.

6.7L engineered in Dearborn??? I though much of the engineering work was done by Peugout in France and Ford of Europe. Ford doesn't have much of an engineering staff left, they outsource a lot of it. Ecoboost was done by Bosch in India I am told.

Does it really matter where the engine was engineered? Ford of Europe is still Ford. It would be stupid of Ford not to use it's global resources on any new project. Small diesel engines and small turbocharged engines are common in Europe. Bosch worked with Ford on the fuel injection system for the Ecoboost engines. How do you figure Ford doesn't have alot of engineering staff left? They built the Raptor in record time. They came up with a new transmission, a new diesel, and a new 6.2L gas engine, as well as the Ecoboost engines.
I think ford will get it right, as they have too much riding on all of this to get it wrong. Time will tell!
On a side note:
Who makes Dodge's diesel? = Cummins
Who did GMC collaborate with the engineering of the Duramax? = Isuzu.

Wow, there is more WINE in here than my liquor cabinet. Amazing.

I would like to see GM/ChryCo attempt to build there own diesels in house. Oh wait they can't.

Give credit where credit is due. You guys want some cheese with that wine.

Frank,

GM built the Duramax, GM at the time the engine was being designed was the majority leader of Isuzu so they basically owned the company (making it part of GM), the two companies formed a joint venture called DMAX and introduced the Duramax Diesel.


GM built this engine, But I can't disagree with you about Dodge and the Cummins, the only nice thing in those trucks isn't even made by Chrysler. ...

Well for those questioning GM's past diesel experience, in addition to he Oldsmobile 350 diesel you should realize that not only was Detroit Diesel founded by GM, but it was owned by GM for over 50 years. The popular Detroit 60 Series is very much a GM design. Also, GM built the majority of diesel railroad locomotives currently in service. So, Ford fan boys, know this: Your purdy Sooper Dooty was probably on a train pulled by GM diesel power!

Big Bob,

Don't forget when your GM Truck breaks down it will be towed by a FORD with it's new 6.7 Diesel.

I guarantee it GM FANBOY.

Jake,

I said in-house. Not a joint venture. Who is FORD parterning with to make there Diesel? FORD Europe.

the allison is fine for stock engines but will not hold up to hgh horsepower. even gm guys agree on this. the torqueshift can and does hold up to high power levels.

so ford, lincoln, mercury has 51 models and 46 of them have average or above average reliabilty rating, like the fusion beats out the camry and accord. GM has 48 models between gmc, buick, chevy, and the caddy and only 20 of them make the cut as average and only one chevy model has above average reliabilty. chrysler has one model that makes the average. sounds to me like i would rather have a ford.

This cracks me up. Like Dodge and GM have no problems with their engines and trannies. I was reading about all the cummins engine problems regarding head gaskets blowing and overheating. Oh and since both Dodge and GM can't make a profit many of the Dodge/GM owners are not getting any warranty work done. Dodge says, "it was bad fuel, so its not covered." Maybe Obama can send them more cash to help pay for mechanic's time.

Ford better get it right on this engine and tranny or they will lose alot of customers. 6.0 soured alot of people. I know the big three are designing new large liter/cubic inch gassers soon too. Most likely to re-capture all the people with diesel problems. Heck, I might have to get one. I know 11mpg sucks but I doubt any new diesel with all the EPA crap will get the old cummins 5.9 mileage. $8,000 cheaper too! Now where is the calculator so I can see how long diesel takes to pay for itself. 10 years? 60 grand MSRP? 50 and discount and T and L, anyone find this absolutely insane?

Good luck FORD

@Wlhm - you have a valid point about return on investment for a diesel engine. A few years ago, before the new emission systems were put into play, and before run away fuel prices, I read an article where a GM engineer put the break even point at 100, 000 miles. This was based on a 30% MPG advantage that diesels traditionally held over gas motors. The DPF and it's associated regeneration cycle increases fuel consumption roughly 15%. Low sulfur fuels also worsen fuel economy. Factor in oil changes that are double the cost with a diesel. You now have to factor in the cost of DEF. (Dodge chassis cab configurations have DEF systems) Then there are diesel fuel prices that are generally higher than gasoline. For most people there is no cost return advantage to owning a diesel. The only remaining reason would be lifespan under heavy operational loads, or your willing to pay the extra cost for the pleasure of driving a diesel truck.

@Frank, Hey Frank give us all a break and quit typing your load of B.S. Face the facts that Navistar wasn't the problem it was Ford additions to their moters that failed. Did Navistar buils the rads that failed in every 6.4L super duty?! No Ford did. Dodge and GM have been ruling in the Diesel world where owners really use their trucks to haul heavy loads up mountain passes. Cummins Engines are the true diesel engine and won't be beat by a Ford Built engine or transmission. Ford also copied the 4.5L Duramax light duty engine design with the reverse flow exhaust/intake design.

@snowman - how do you know that Ford copied GMC with the "reverse flow" exhaust/intake design?
It usually takes five years to develop a new product. GM would of had tight security around their design and/or patents in place to protect their ideas.
If engineers were left alone to design and build vehicles they'd all look alike, ride alike, and feel alike because what works the best is a narrow field of options. The new Ford diesel and GM 4.5 are an obvious example. Another example would be the "tear drop" shape being the most aerodynamic.

I'll tell you what, I like this transmission, and I like the 6.2L Boss V-8. I might even buy a Super Duty with that powertrain someday. But, you can keep that 6.7L. No way am I going to be part of Ford's test program. Got a bad feeling about that one, way too much new unproven technology, and Ford's experience with diesels is weak. Don't give me any jazz about those 6.9 and 7.8 medium truck diesel engines either. Those were New Holland engines, built in Brazil, and they were junk anyway. Ford tow trucks? Since when? Most tow operators in my area use Internationals or GMC Topkicks. A few Dodge 5500's are showing up. Ford burned too many bridges with the 6.0L.



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