Update 1: Mahindra Hasn't Applied for EPA Certification Yet

Mahindra Hasn't Applied for EPA Certification Yet

Update #1 February-24-2010 02:52 PDT:
Global Vehicles USA spokesman Mike Geylin says it's still the plan to introduce the TR20 and TR40 pickups this Spring.

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Mahindra's TR20 and TR40 diesel pickup trucks are supposed to go on sale this spring but the Indian automaker has yet to file paperwork with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency proving that the trucks will meet federal emissions regulations.

"The EPA has had informal discussion with Mahindra but they haven't officially applied to have the truck certified," said Cathy Milbourn, EPA spokeswoman.

In December, John Perez, CEO of Mahindra’s distributor Global Vehicles USA, said Mahindra had completed all the testing needed to ensure the Indian-built pickups meet U.S. federal standards. GV USA expected that certification paperwork would be submitted for approval to the government in January and approved by February.

Mahindra TR Series pickups will be offered in two cab configurations: a two-door regular cab and a four-door crew cab. Both will use a slightly modified version of Mahindra's mHawk 2.2-liter inline-four-cylinder diesel engine that meets U.S. emissions regulations. It's expected to have fuel economy ratings as high as 30 mpg and 1.3-ton hauling capability. Pricing is expected to start around $22,000.

Comments

I wonder why they haven't submitted for EPA approval? Most likely answer is because their trucks do not meet EPA guidelines!
Another possible reason - they do not have an American assembly plant ready to go. The 25% "chicken tax" would kill sales. Base price: $22,000 + 25% = 27,500.
Add 2 - 3,000 for DEF?
= Bye Bye Mahindra.

Uh-Oh! This is huge.

I hear Jim Press is looking for a new job.
Mahindra needs to hire him and show him the "Mahindra Way".
and later Mahindra will have safety recall problems.

Too many BLOWN launch dates already. Mahindra is now officially a JOKE...

That is bad news, and quite usetting for someone like me that is looking forward to test drive this truck. But what's new? Mahindra is saying that they are coming since 2007 and e every 6 month they have a new date!
Mahindra said last Fall that the trucks would be here in February... Edmund.com predicts that the truck will be here Winter of 2010! I guess they know best!
I should just get a Tacoma and get it over with it, but now not even Toyota are reliable !!?
What a mess I tell you...

Damn the torpedos...they will sell them without EPA certification! Heck,Toyota doesnt recognize US NHTSA safety standards either....and that hasnt stopped them...

It's too bad Mahindra and GV are such a joke.

FYI -- I've seen a white regular cab Mahindra out testing on the streets of Denver, Co at least three times in the past three weeks. Next time I'll try to grab a photo. It's quite a bit bigger than I thought it would be. This one has some beefy tires on it. It seems quite a bit more substantial than the Ford Ranger, which I thought was disappointing. I would categorize this as a medium-sized pickup and not a small pickup.

Wow. Really a mind blower why they aren't on top of things. There are a lot of dealers who are going to be very upset about this news.

If they cant get paperwork right, why would I have faith that they got the engineering right?

The only things that keep me so interested in this truck is the MPG and the hauling capability! Come on Mahindra!!! Let's see the goods!!

I never understood the need for a hokey pokey middle man distributor. If you're serious, commit to the task and get r'done. Maybe Mahindra was never serious or GV couldn't get the job done. Perez and his investors are probably out of money by now.

I'm not sure why anyone was taking the seriously to start with, their claims are to overblown. But there can really only be 2 reasons they haven't applied for EPA certification, either they can't pass emissions or they can't pass emissions while still getting 30 mpg.

Got tired of waiting. Just bought a 2010 Ranger in Electic Blue with all the new safety goodies, 26mpg, and all the now-standard equipment for 16K and couldn't be happier. Screw Mahindra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

it seems some people are not ready to except the truth that mahindra has truck that can give 30mpg and still haul 1,3 tons.
reasons:
(1) most of you are not familier with clean diesel technology.
(2) never drove diesel truck.
(3)don't know much about mahindra who sells more suv in india than mitsu sells here for last 50yrs.
(4)check out there scorpio suvs which are diesel powered runs like gasoline powered suvs gives more than 30mpg.

so if you can't except that somebody else in world can make better vehicles than ford, toyota etc. then do some more homework. try it first before making a comment that;s what the smart people do. and rest just yell loud in blogs and show their knowledge of rock bottom.

"it seems some people are not ready to except the truth that mahindra has truck that can give 30mpg and still haul 1,3 tons. "

Mike get a grip man, there's a reason no other mid-size truck has a 2600+ lb payload capacity. Its not because Mahindra has some kind of secret no one else knows about, its because it requires a heavy frame and large leaf springs. You can tell by looking at pictures of this truck that it doesn't have the springs for it, so unless they've got air bags under there its gonna be riding on the stops at full load. That's neither safe nor good for the truck and that's why no one else rates their mid-sizes that high (in fact most half tons can't carry that much). The realistic payload capacity is probably closer to 1300 lbs.

Tow 5000lbs? We don't know what the rear end gearing is like but we do know what the hp/torque numbers are. With those torque numbers you are looking at 3.55:1 gears is my guess, if the gears aren't at least that they are exaggerating towing capacity. And even then you won't be towing as well as you well other mid-size trucks with similar tow ratings (if you really want me to explain why I can explain in detail.)

30 mpg? Before the EPA started adding EGR and particulate filters I would've believed it, but not now. With an automatic, 3.55:1 gears and 2wd you're looking at maybe 22/28.

You've have to have quite the imagination to try to compare that 3rd world looking mutant to a refined modern day diesel pickup. The reality is the pik-up has a track record of poor safety, quality, and appearance leaving little to look forward to.

I hope they finally deliver it and Mahindra has the chance to learn about building pickups/suvs for the America consumer.

Enjelus,
Please explain more in detail why you believe the towing and hauling numbers are exaggerated. I think the person you are responding to said 1.3 tons (3900 lbs) in hauling. Who here thinks they can haul 3,900 lbs with this truck on a regular basis? Also is this a mid size truck or a compact?

This sounded like a good truck at first but the price is too high and now knowone knows when it will be released or if it will ever happen.

I have already received a reply from Mr. Perez at Global Vehicles regarding this. According to him there are NO delays, and that they are still set for a Mid-Spring release. He will be explaining how the EPA Certification process works with me in more depth over the phone tomorrow. To keep up-to-date on this, follow this thread here: http://mahindratruckforum.com/forums/site-news-updates/805-epa-certification.html#post2606

@ M-You asked for it!

We'll start with a Ranger

2010 Ranger, 4.0L V-6, 2WD, 5 speed auto, 3.55:1 gears
P225/70R15 tires
GCVW: 9500 lbs
Tow Rating: 5760 lbs
207 hp @ 5250
238 ft-lbs @ 3000

It can pull 70 in 3 gear (1.47:1) @ around 4600 rpms, at which point the engine makes about 216 ft-lbs of torque.

216 x 1.47 x 3.55 = 1127 ft-lbs at the rear wheels at 70.


Mahindra, 2.2L I-4, 2WD, 6 speed auto
P245/75R16 tires
GCVW: ? lbs (from curb weight, tow rating and a 150 lb person about 9300lbs)
Tow Rating: 5000 lbs
140 hp @ 3200 (guesstimates on rpm)
236 ft-lbs @ 1600

We don't know anything about the transmission ratios, assuming it has a normal 6 speed and 3.55:1, it can pull 70 in 4 gear (1:1) @ around 2800 rpms, at which point the engine makes about 231 ft-lbs of torque.

231 x 1 x 3.55 = 820 ft-lbs at the rear wheels at 70.

As I said we don't know what the gearing is like, optimal gearing for 70 would be something like 4.02:1 gears with a 1:1 transmissions gear. That'd be around 3200 rpms, 230 ft-lbs of torque.

230 x 1 x 4.02 = 925 ft-lbs at the rear wheels at 70.

But to get the same torque at the rear wheels as the above ranger you'd need on the order of a 4.9:1 combined gear ratio and to stay at or below 3200 rpms you'd have to slow down to at least 57 mph.

And also 1.3 x 2000 = 2600 lbs (not 3900lbs)

As stated here: http://mahindratruckforum.com/forums/site-news-updates/805-epa-certification.html

The EPA certification is the last part of the process. It's like getting your high school diploma. You DONT apply for your high school diploma when you start high school. You get your diploma when you are all done.

The same goes for the EPA certification. You don't apply for it during the process, its something you get at the very end. Mahindra is still expecting a mid-spring release. For more info, checkout http://mahindratruckforum.com

@mike,
I would LIKE to test drive a Mahindra but they're not here yet. I have never driven a diesel pickup and know a little about clean diesel technology. Mahindra & Mahindra is big enough to make this work, if it CAN work.

I know Mahindra tractors get a good name. Mahindra Tractors closed their assembly and distribution plant in Calhoun, GA and moved it to Chattanooga, TN -- apparently to cut overhead.

@Jason,
Glad to hear the Mahindra pickups are bigger than I anticipated, wasn't looking forward to a compact diesel truck.

Mike Levine -
I think this report is half baked with no details on how the EPA certification works. It seems to imply that trucks will be delayed due to EPA certification problems. Can we get a proper background on this?. Mahindra/GV needs to wake up and send clear status else rumor mill will go on.

Mahindra truck forum, A high school diploma? Mahindra is blowing smoke up your behind.

See here for more info.

Plans for Indian dealership stalled

Quote: "More than six months after Birmingham-based Serra Automotive Group announced plans to sell Mahindra vehicles in Montgomery, the whole project is still in neutral.

Mahindra is a line of trucks and SUVs made in India and sold in many countries. But the vehicles haven't yet received regulatory approval to be sold in the United States."

Quote: "When the dealership was announced in August, Brown said it should open by the middle of the year. That appears unlikely now.

The dealership will be built, if the cars are ever approved for U.S. sale...."

Another Quote: "He said the EPA approval process is under way, but declined to comment when told the EPA has not received an application from Mahindra yet."

link: http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20100218/NEWS01/2180330/Plans-for-Indian-dealership-stalled

In this article from January 30th, "Mahindra to export Scorpio-based pick-ups to US by March'10",
Dr. Pawan Goenka, President, Auto Sector, was quoted as saying, "We are waiting for some regulatory approvals to launch Scorpio in the US in this quarter."
http://www.wheelsunplugged.com/ViewNews.aspx?newsid=5551

On February 22nd, nearly a month later, pickuptrucks.com found out they haven't submitted the paperwork for the approval.

Also, they say they are fully ready with the product (customized for the US market) and even the US manufacturing facility. But later suggest on contracting it to somebody or investing in a small plant. So do they have a US mfg facility or not? This is not clear.


@ken
considering the current US economy, new companies would think twice before launching a new product especially when existing automakers are struggling!!

@KK: I don't see what's "half-baked" about it. The reason I wrote the story was because GV USA told its dealers in December that it expected all certification paperwork to be submitted to the feds in January and approved by February. That didn't happen.

Should I have ignored that promise?

I spoke to a Mahindra tractor dealer and soon to be mahindra truck dealer last week. He said they were just briefed and the mahindra trucks are at the port in India ready for shipment. They are not being assembled in the U.S other than the truck boxes be installed here.

They are still anticipating the first loads maybe late March but very likely in April.

Just saying....

I'm anxious. My 2004 Land Rover just took a dump on me and I'm fed up with Land Rover customer service (land rover vehicles are ok folks...it's a customer service issue they have)

well they are testing them here, over the last several weeks ive seen both models running around the area, I'd like to catch the guy parked and take a closer look!!!

Nissan, bring over the diesel Navara sold overseas!! So can Toyota do with the next gen. Hilux and VW with the Amarok. The Mitsu L200 is also cool.
I guess we all got tired already of Mahindra, before it gets stateside, if ever...

I'm not optimistic that this Mahindra truck is going to make it to our market at all. Delays, delays, delays...and a price that may have it competing with capable, refined, stylish full-sizers.

I really wanted to like this truck. And why not? A turbo diesel motor that had sufficient hp and torque with eye brow raising fuel mileage to match. An automatic six speed transmission that should keep you in the correct gear for most situations. A payload and towing that is more than sufficient for my needs. OK, it had looks that only a mother could love but given what it could do I was willing to overlook it's homelyness. What I can't get over though is how Mihindra has failed to deliver on it's promise to begin selling these little wonder pickups. Month after month and year after year a new promise of start date only to be set back again and again. Now I'm thinking if they can't get this thing off the ground while it's new what will it be like for me when I have it in for some type of warranty repair or in some need of part replacement? How long will have to wait for parts? I really wanted to like this truck but now I'm more concerned because of their inabilities to deliver. Maybe this is indicitive of how they operate.....do I really want to invest in a pickup like this? Now I no longer think so.

The vehicle is still being tested, as per discussion with an Indian Fellow who was driving the four door model across Country. He was in Montana driving from Michigan. They are looking to exceed the EPA regulations.

The diesel itself is quite (purrs like a VW TDI) and looks actually pretty awesome. I'm excited to test drive one. Also, its getting 28 mpg across Montana through the mountain passes and altitude (according to the driver), so I'll be interested to see what it gets for an EPA rating. In comparison the brand new 2010 F-150 I rented in Bozeman which was rated to get 20 mpg, averaged 14 mpg, with all highway miles.

Matt,
You're blowing smoke.

Fred, I am not sure what you mean by blowing smoke? I too had the good luck of running into one of these test trucks in Arizona last week, and had a chance to speak with the test driver. From what the driver was able to tell me, Matt’s story sounds right. Apparently, Mahindra has had several challenges and there have also been delays but now, they are quite close to being ready to go to the EPA. Most of the testing is done and they are now in the final stages of accumulating the required miles before they go to the EPA. He also was fairly certain that the Mahindra would be launching in the US sometime in the later part of this year. He also indicated similar excellent “real world” fuel economy numbers as Matt has stated. I don’t get anywhere close to 28MPG in my Ranger. I am looking forward to getting behind the wheel myself soon…

Our Jeep SUV got 33 highway and I do believe it's heavier and had a similar I-4 diesel that Mahinda is packing. It was rated (the engine) for 6000LB towing, Jeep only rated it for 5000LB towing, and then crippled the engines 300ft.lb to 260ft/lb because of a crappy torque converter in their 5-speed auto.

no i fully believe that this truck can do 1.3 tons and get 30mpg *UNLOADED* -- but not both at the same time.

I am just tired reading about the launch. Another indian muv rhino is planning is to go global. Is tata also considering to launch its safari version of truck

i was just in the west indies and there are plenty of toyata,vw and other car companys offering 4 and 6 cyl diesels even fords made outside north america why is it we do not have it here there is a toyota 4cyl hilux (4runner) that is amazing to drive I think we all need to wake up and relaize that many of theese cars/trucks were designed by north americians in north america .these vehicles are more familar than we think and within a certain amount of time will be here the needs of the consumer will eventually win, right now a large percentage of our population needs fuel economy and function at a resonable price i drive 1200 kms a week and had to get rid of my 1999 chevy astro after rebuilding the engine and trany, now i drive an eight cyl 6.5 turbo diesel 1994 suburban $80 a week if ford gm and chrys have been and made so many cars and trucks why can't we make an affordable economical truck for the north american consumer mahindra is doing more for us than dodge,chrys or gm toyota sold millions of a car called the carona because at the time it was what the people needed

Buzz has been building for quite some time regarding Mahindra's anticipated introduction of the Indian company's compact pickup offerings into the United States. Mahindra's TR20 and TR40 diesel pickups were slated for sale in the U.S. in Spring 2010, but this rosy estimate assumed that the compact trucks would be certified by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) with regard to tailpipe emissions and fuel economy figures by that time.

Mahindra had completed all the testing needed to ensure the Indian-built pickups meet U.S. federal standards. They have waited for their certification paper. GV USA expected that certification paperwork would be submitted for approval to the government by next month. Some certification program are guided well enough to moving forward in real life. These paperwork certification programs are well define impact on business.



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