It one thing to be king of the hill another to be king of sales and one to be king of longevity so you tell me who really wins here????? IMO US the consumer! They all have something to strive for.

@D57H: Amen. Ford, GM, Ram all make awesome HD trucks.

Once again, this proves the theory: Ford has the best overall package, and Germans love David Hasselhoff!

It always comes down to how bad the manufacturer wants to sell their wares. A little more cash on the hood makes a big difference.

CHEVY smokes the ford in performance, no one can argue with that.

I wonder how many more Chevy HD will be sold just because they won the Rumble in the Rockies. Wait, I know they sold one. That's a stepping stone, keep it up GM.

Ford, well boohooo your truck is slow.

End of scarcasm.

Congrats to GM for the win in the Rockies, and Congrats to Ford for being the king of the HD market.

Here is my question, For someone who will never go across the Rockies, (I live in the Mid Atlantic @ sea level) and will never tow 19k pounds at most 10k to 12k, then would it make a difference as to what truck I would buy? Something tells me this would apply to almost 85% of the HD market out there. I occasionally pull a utility trailer, a deck over trailer with a 9k pound tractor, and a 7,500 lbs camper up to the mountains in PA (which is in no way close to the Rockies).

Also does the Ford do better at sea level compared to the GM? Although the rumble was very informative and very thorough it has now opened up even more questions...

Ford is selling well not because it's better, but because of their marketing, Look at how many issues SD had since 2003. I give a huge credit to GM for letting PUTC and diesel magazine do the testing at the rockies (GM just provided the trucks) ford in the other hand do all of their testing on their own and they compare apple to oranges, and even different years trucks (how lame is that?) with their own drivers and no 3rd party witnesses. I would give ford credit for great marketing, but the only thing i see what they do well is tricking consumer.

I usually find these comments to be a waste of time-this being no exception-but I find it hilarious how hard some people try to publicly defend their bruised egos. Many of you seem to be consoled by the fact that F-series have outsold Chevrolet by a large margin. I don’t know how that removes the sting of such a sound of a beating. I suppose I shouldn’t mention that if we where honest about it, we would include the Sierras with the Silverados and that according to Wikipedia’s number the combination has handily outsold the F-series 9 of the past 10 years (2000 was the only year that they did not-the year prior to the Duramax). There is of course the argument that is not a real world test. I suppose those making this argument imagine that somehow the Powerstroke would magically make more power and triumphantly outrun the Duramax at a lower elevation and with a smaller trailer on flat ground. I don’t think so. Perhaps they should run the test on level ground, at sea level with the load limited to 10K, but if that is real world for you, why are you driving a diesel pickup? There has even been a guy so desperate, that he has argued not once but twice that the Ford did not have the update, the second time after having been corrected by Mike (I bet he just bought a Super Duty-poor guy). Durability? Does Ford really have a better reputation for solidly built Engines and Transmission? Better than the Duramax and Allison? Bottom line is both are great trucks, both have their strengths and weaknesses, but in this case the Duramax has proven itself substantially superior. I suspect in coming years there will be a Powerstroke that can turn the tables-just not this year. Perhaps GM will one day have an interior worthy of its powertrain. Either way, I would be happy to own either machine.

@fred why would someone continue to buy an inferior product? I know that if I had a business and I had something costing me money I definitely wont continue to buy it and this is why I dont get when people (gm fans) say its strictly because of the incentives. The american market isn't oblivious to these tests that claim to have the best everything in their trucks... But it is a matter of reliability and how their previous truck performed which determines the outcome of their next truck.

I heard the F-450 and 550 are rapidly loosing ground to the Dodge Ram 4500 and 5500 in the chassis-cab market.

@sparky

The gm trucks combined have not outsold the F series. Might want to check your numbers.

@ Big Bob I dont think so Ram's 4500 and 5500s are good trucks but not near the trucks the F-450 and F-550 are.

Who cares, buy what you like, that is what it comes down to anyway.
If the HD segment is up, then the recession must be over for folks to sign onto many thousands of dollars of debt for a truck....I know...I know....not everyone is poor like me right :)

I hate to sound like a broken record but if GM would put a proper front axle meaning a solid front axle with coil springs GM could easily take the top spot away from Ford , lets give a shout out to GM mediocrity .

Well for all you people wondering how the winning the rockies thing will affect fords sales, i would say it wont. Yes GM might be better at high altitude, but Ford is better on level ground at sea level, and previous truck buyers are probably already aware of that. So if anything it might sway a few buyers who are new to the market, that tow/haul heavy loads up tall grades and high above sea level, but thats it. they are both fantastic trucks though.

It all comes down to pride for the most part if you want to believe it or not i think ford dose so well because the avg person doesn't need to tow 30k lbs so it doesn't matter what wins what. its all about comfort, looks or pride for most people because any diesel out right now can do the job for the avg Joe. my 97 ford diesel with some mods tows my weekend warrior with my pre runner in it no problem. oh yeah and the whole bail out thing still bugs people that could be why ford is getting more sale.

How do you guys figure that Ford is better at sea level? It lost the HD shootout just a few months ago (well, both diesel parts, it did win the gasoline crown).

I don't know. Diehards are diehards (I'm a diehard GM person), so people will buy what they like, but you can't argue with results. And Mike Levine did an outstanding job at making this last test as fair as possible. He even went as far as addressing each individual complaint (excuse) Ford fans used from the shootout (not a job 2, Silverado is lighter, if the Ford would have been in 4WD it would have won, if the test would have went to a 1/2 mile the Ford would have went around the GMC) and the Ford STILL lost!

Now of course all this sea level talk comes back into play. I really hope Mike makes something happen with these trucks at sea level if for no other reason to see what kind of excuse you guys can come up with next.

You Ford guys need to give it up. The GM trucks won 2/3 of the Shootout "at Sea Level" and now the GM Truck won "above Sea Level." What else do you want?!!! Shut up already, GM has a better chasis, end of story. Go pout to someone else.....get over it. This new story about Ford being the Sales King should give you something to brag about since there isn't much else.

Re: sea level/regular level

I hate to keep harping on this but, this was the pickuptrucks.com HD shootout:

"The Sierra Denali 3500 pulled strong after a small slip at the start line but was able to get its six-ton trailer up to 60 mph in 18.8 seconds, a full half-second faster than the Super Duty. The Super Duty’s transmission seemed well-suited to bring the fight to the Denali after 60 mph. In fact, by the time the F-350 got to the quarter-mile marker, it had closed the gap with the GMC to almost nothing. The best time for the Denali was 22.3 seconds, while the best time for the Ford was 22.4, and we’re guessing if this were a half-mile flat-tow head-to-head test, the Power Stroke would have likely overtaken the Duramax in the next 200 feet."

In the HD shootout, the Chevy 1 ton was just .1 seconds faster than Ford's job #1 truck.

The redo of the shootout (sea level) testing was supposed to be done first. But somehow they got away from that and did two high altittude tests in a row.

Chevy saw the results of the the Rocky Mountain Power Challenge. Then Chevy was like, let's get pickuptrucks.com and Ford to a test in the Rockies. Hello? We just did one.

If you would take the time to read the results of the heavy duty shootout, you would see that Chevy did not "win" 2/3 of the shootout and there was no clear winner. A lot of it was too close to call but they couldn't say they were all winners. Since we are talking about hill climbs here, this is also from the shootout:

7% hill climb

The fastest one-ton truck up the hill was the Ford F-350.

16%
The faster one-ton truck up the hill was the Chevy, just a half second faster.

Can anyone really say that half a second difference could not change if they used the job #2 trucks from Ford?

The world will never know.

@Dave, you keep bringing up one test (that the Ford lost) yet just seem to totally over look everything else. What about the towing test at grade in that event? The Powerstroke won the 7% tow test in the duallies by 1 tenth (30.93 to 31.03) but was nearly 3 mph slower (51.09 to 53.98). So what makes you think had that test not went a few hundred feet longer the Denali would have went around the Ford? A win is a win though. However, in the 3/4 ton trucks, the Ford lost the same test in both time (28.23 to 30.07) and mph (56.24 to 54.37).

So you guys wanted the test to go for a longer distance vs. a job 2 truck? Well, nearly 8 miles is a longer distance. How did that turn out? The Silverado was over 2 minutes faster to the top, where it was doing 47.xx mph, the Ford could only muster 30.xx mph.

Oh but that is at elevation, so it doesn't count. What makes you guys so convinced that the Ford will just magically be able to make up over 2 minutes of time when running at sea level? Don't you think the Duramax is going to be making more power at sea level then it was at elevation?

@your world may never know comment, what is keeping Ford from challengine GM to this test again vs. a job 2 truck? And if GM was to decline, what's keeping them from going to PUTC and asking them to do the test, you know, how GM did after Ford declined their challenge.

If Ford (or any other OEM) wants to do a similar challenge at sea level, we're all in.

@Mike, just curious, but what happened to the two trucks from the Rumble in the Rockies test? Did GM incorporate them into their personal test fleet or are they giving some other publications a shot at them? I mean if they are still floating around for media testing, it sure would be nice to settle this once and for all about the sea level argument.

@Top Dog:
Ok, Ok, you got me. The 7.3-6.4 were built in Huntsville, Alabama, and the New 6.7 is built across the border. I don't like this fact at all, but Ford isn't the only one that builds cars, trucks, and their components in Mexico and Canada.

In 2002 Isuzu bought back 37% of it's company from GM, but GM made sure that Isuzu didn't get back their own diesel engine designs that made Duramax such a success. If Isuzu did get to keep their designs then GM would've been left to build their own diesel, which they can't seem to do by themselves as we've learned from the pre-Duramax days.

Ford is the only truck builder that uses all of it's own parts and components to be the best while Dodge(Fiat) and GM(Isuzu) have to team up with other companies to try and be the best. That’s all I'm saying. Ford can do it on their own and Dodge(Fiat) GM(Isuzu) can't.

They closed The Rumble in the Rockies blog before I could post this.

@Top Dog:

Sorry about that "talking out your a**" comment. you were right.

@Matt: As of a few weeks ago, the two trucks were set to go to auction. They've probably been sold by now.

Recap:

Hill climbs:
Ford fastest at 7% hill climb.
Chevy only .5 seconds faster at 16%.

Fuel:
Chevy best unloaded diesel mileage.
Ford best 3/4 ton combined and pulling diesel mileage which is the toughest.
Ford best 1 ton combined and pulling diesel mileage which is the toughest.

Trailer sway:
Ford has trailer sway control on single rear wheel and duallies.
Chevy only has trailer sway on the single rear wheel trucks, not on duallies.

Braking.
Ford Beats GM in the 3/4 ton diesel.
Ford beats GM in the 3/4 gas.
GM beats Ford in 1 ton diesel.

level ground:
Ford 1 ton 22.4 quarter mile
Chevy 1 ton 22.3 quarter mile
*note from the shootout: "and we’re guessing if this were a half-mile flat-tow head-to-head test, the Power Stroke would have likely overtaken the Duramax in the next 200 feet."

Now after reading this you can't tell me that Chevy/GM won everything in the shootout and was the clear winner. I didn't even include the gas performance which Ford won.

The job #2 might not make a difference in a rematch, but it would be interesting to find out! The story has not ended.

@Dave, I just posted the results from the 7% hill climb which Ford won the dually comparo by only .1 seconds (which is less than .5 if we're going to start getting that nit picky about it) and was slower by nearly 3 mph and lost the 3/4-ton version of this test in both time and speed! How can you say Ford won the entire 7% hill climb test?

@Mike, I see. Well, they sure would have been two awesome trucks to have been able to buy at a discounted price!

I know I'm going to get flack for this from the Ford boys, but it still amazes me how the Super Duty trucks are still a hot seller for a truck that really hasn't had a major redesign ever since the current bodystyle came out in the late 90s.

Looks like the Rumble in the Rockies debate continues.

I like the way the GM performs but I'm not a fan of the corporation and their bankruptsy.

I like the Ram's track record with the Cummins but I have a hard time trusting the quality of the rest of the truck.

Ford as a corporation is on a roll. I'm not a big fan of the HD grill. The truck has a good reputation, with the exception of the engine. It is brand new and that makes me nervous.

Fortunately for me,I do not want or need a HD.
It would be a much tougher choice than picking the best 1/2 ton.

You can't argue with sales success. (Actually, these threads prove that you can.LOL)

What's the old saying" I'll take a Ford truck with a Cummins motor and an Allison transmission!"

GM lost alot of HD sales because of the missing medium duty line up. GM please produce silverado 4500 and 5500, and so you can have every option what truck buyers could want, give it a solid front axle, not that there is anything wrong with IFS but a line of trucks for any job out there. oh and please offer 4500 as Denali version too. Tank you.

@Steven, I'm a GM guy, but to be fair, Ford had an all new chassis (or atleast heavily modified) sometime within the last few years (I am not sure when) with the current one a slight update over last years, I'm sure some of the Ford guys can give an exact MY). They have also had two all new interiors (again, I think that is right), and atleast 3 front end designs. And of course I think everybody knows the different diesel engines they've had.

Now from the front doors back, not much has changed. The taillights are a little different and the tailgate has "Super Duty" molded in, but the overall look is pretty well the same since they inroduced the Super Duty line as a '99 MY.

I wonder if the Job2 tranny tuning actually hurts the Ford in the long high altitude max weight pull. You can't have a perfect engine/tranny that will win every challenge unless you have a huge hp/tq advantage. Neither brand does. So one will excell in some tests while the other will excell in other tests. The longer the test, the more dramatic the results as the winner pulls away. would the results be the same with half the weight? Would one excel with max weight while the other is best with less? Just thinking of how the tests could be endless when you have such similar trucks to begin with but they are controlled by a computer to be the best based on how an engineer says the truck will be used the most.

I still can't get over Ford's clear advantage in Hp, Tq, and engine displacement but yet gets slaughtered in an equally loaded trailer hill climb. Ford's new motto must be image over substance. More than a few at Ford deserve to lose their job.

To All GM Boys:

Ole 7.3 Liter was around and stayed around long before the DuraCrap came into the scene. The 7.3's were built like an OX, many well maintained 1's in the 500,000 to 900,000 mile life span, Original Motor. The main reason for the demise of the 7.3 is the Governments stricter emission laws (it was clearly to difficult to make the 7.3 any cleaner than the laws were heading to) and so the 6.0. At the time Ford/International likely did not interest themselves with GM's 6.6 as much as they did with the 5.9 Cummins, aka displacement. 6.0's Main Problem was with the EGR System and being only 4 Head Bolts per Cylinder the Head Bolts were to small at 17mm to hold the pressure, at times even on stock motors mainly due to EGR Problems but mostly on highly modified motors. The arrival of the 6.4 was to resolve these issues as well as be more competitive, the increase in liters had to be done with the even stricter Emission Laws passed to make power to compete. If it wasn't for the breakup of Ford and International we likely would still see the 6.4 operating for a long time more. This motor is a beast and would definitely be a better candidate than the DuraCrap for making reliable power since it still uses Cast Iron Heads and a Very Beefy Block, very large 22mm Head Bolts.

Ford says the 6.7 is here to stay, and I must say looking at it's build stats, Ford got it right though I wish it had Cast Iron Heads. Per FORD in a private Blog: "We allowed a lot of room in the 6.7 to remain competitive for at least the next 10 years!" Diesel Power magazine had an article on the new TorqueShift 6-Speed Trans, Front of Cover read, "Look Out Allison!" Fact is if you GM Boy's look at it's stats and write up as well as a gutted view of it's internals you will see that FORD clearly has there SH** Together with there Transmissions and Engines and Know what they are doing. Heck the 5R100 has proven to handle gobs of torque, particularly in the updated version mated to the 6.4 Liter. Some have already pushed it to 800 hp and it still holds up of course on borrowed time at that point, try doing that with a Allison.

Ford's Chassie really is it's bread and butter and is why it continues to be the class king. Despite it's open C-Channel Frame which is better for servicing, installing 5th-Wheels and addressing any possible rust issues later in it's service life, Ford's Frames and Bodies/Interiors have always held up the best, particularly with the Bodies on the Superduties from 2008.5 to Current but even the OBS's which I personally own both a 1996 and 2006, both very reliable, but the OBS's body's seem to not fall apart as quick as the others do. Clearly for GM to Even Compete with Ford's stout Chassie, they needed to Box there Frames completely, it's shame though they didn't consider potential rust issues for those that live near the ocean like myself or in states that regularly salt the roads during winter and the inability to service the rust internal of the box.

IMO G (government) M (motors) had to go all out to gain back some of it's market share or it be swimming in dog poo right about now. As for Ford, well they'll just chug along and play Cat and Mouse with GM if that's what they want to do. Honestly I hope the power war's end and the focus is on reliability and particularly sapping every last ounce of Fuel per Miles as they Can to make these Rigs more Efficient. By the way to Ford's knowledge they feel that GM is running out of room on the 6.6 to compete with continued increases in power while FORD, again, has ton's of room to play with. The Census from what I have read on The Diesel Stop is the motor was built to remain reliable for an extended time upwards of over 1,000#'s of Torque.

Botom Line is in my own Circle of Ohana or Family including Uncles and Friends, we all have a Mixed Bag of Brand Vehicles and if it wasn't for that we wouldn't enjoy the competition of who's got the better truck, So I'd say bring it on GM and Dodge, What you Got for US FORD Fanboi's NEXT...LMBO

Oh by the way Have Fun Sharing Your Profits with Other Companies, FORD now has both Motors and Trans built in House and that means more money to advance it's Superduty Program to Even Higher Levels while staying out of the RED...

Aloha

Dave:
I still got an 96' OBS that purrs like a cat till this day and a proven chassie that'll hold up for a long time, with abuse. The point of my comment, BRAINS, is BoyTies got lots of talk about there proven truck and long standing DuraCrap, Yeah Right! You've been riding on a pencil of a Frame for the last Decades, Flimsy Sheet Metal since the revamp in the 90's and Oh up to at least 2010, Drum Brakes, might I also add a pathetic of an Interior and space fit for a Queen.

My comment only implied that Ford has had a long standing reputation with the 7.3 for longer than the DuraCrap has been around and even the Pre-Powerstroke 7.3 and 6.9's, many are still romping around, in fact a recent Diesel Power Mag. showed these old oil burners still being used in ambulance vehicles till this day. We can't let the 7.3 RIP because there still around and will likely be around for a long time. The evolving of engines had all to do with emissions. By the way before you start talking smack about International, the MaxForce motors are superb motors, 6.4 is no exception.

Ford takes a calculated direction when it comes to there Heavy Duty Frames, they'd prefer one that flexes and designed to properly support heavy loads than one that's stiff and has the potential to crack under extreme use. A good percentage of Ford Trucks are bought not so they can race from stop light to stop light with a heavy load but for it's reliability and durability under extreme work environments. Ford takes the unlikely wheel hop in favor of a Chassie that won't fall apart when traversing hostile terrain or loaded. The simple Fact is Ford's are much heavier than there GM counterpart because they are built with much more heavy duty components. By the way Ford has been evolving there Frames through the last decade, Starting in 1998.5, than 2005/2006 and again in 2008. Ford is always revising there Chassie to meet the demands of the segment. As far as trying to beat GM, I assure you, there biggest concern was building a motor that'll satisfy every truck owner and avoid the 6.0 Warranty Fiasco. It's a known fact Ford invested a ton of money into there Drivetrain Combination so the updates to the rest of the Chassie is coming, but wheel hop in this contest in no way means that it's not up to the task. GM for the Fanboi and Boy Racers, FORD for the Working Man and You can place Dodge in this category as well though I question everything besides the Cummins, though the new Dodge seems to be a much better built vehicle.

Get your facts right, the 6.4 once broken in get's in the 15mpg range, my buddies got one. Sure 9-12 heavily loaded. DPF Delete and Tuner and most are in excess of 20+mpg. Read the latest Diesel Power Challenge before you talk.

Your Allison is a Light Duty version of what is put in larger Trucks Get Over It and is not as capable as even the 5R100 in the previous models just as in my 2006 F350 as far as handling large amounts of power in excess of 600 without Grenading. I'm in no way dogging Allison but just showing how Ford's Transmissions are extremely Stout and Durable and Built In House. Ford has nothing to prove, with there Trans they've already proven it and after reading the specs and inner workings of the new 6 speed, this one will put them in a league of there own while GM and Dodge continue to Bow Down to there Supplying Parts. We don't just Bake our Cake, We Eat it Too.

Oh I'm pretty sure I've already mentioned, PROFITS, PROFITS, PROFITS stay in house...Seeee You laters FanBoi's

By the way in no way does it pain, in fact it Humors me to see GM win, it's typical industry, SOFT Testers look at speed tests and don't take into consideration all the hidden aspects such as build components, durability in extreme environments, long-term job site success, ect. What you think because GM boxed there frame, waited for Ford to release initial numbers just so they could trump Ford, beefed up the IFS, got a better ride, that it's a better TRUCK! We'll let all you FanBoi's and PickupTrucks.Com continue to think that. Again Fords new Scorpion will sting again and again now that it'll stay permanently under the FORD Brand.

Also, Ford Rises in Quality Survey and Surpassed Toyota to take 5th spot behind Cars like Lexus, Acura ect. Where's GM, Oh there way behind.....Aloha

I'll prove you wrong on that point of GM being better becuase they used the same design. Over the course of 11-1/2 Years of the Current Version of what is known as the SuperDuty, The basic overall design of the truck has remained unchanged. GM has seen 3 Major Revamping of Designs in that Period, I mean complete Sheet Metal. Ford has Progressively Improved it's Heavy Duty Platform, Transmissions have gone through major innovations to what is currently being used in the 2011 and I wouldn't be surprised if Fords 'Built-In-House' Trans is Better than it's Allison Counterpart, It's at least On Par and we definitely know that Fords Trans can take significantly more abuse. While the competitors continue to need boxing of there frames to withstand the high payload and towing capacities, Ford has somehow thrived with it's Basic C-Channel Frame due to Smart Designing and Yet provide a Much more reliable platform for High Payloads and Towing Capacity, with less potential for hairline cracks or complete failure. Superduty Interiors are Definitely the Most Durable of the Crop by Far and has stood the test of time since it's Birth in 1998.5. The Diesel Motors have been an issue but I believe that Ford has hit there Target for Building a Reliable and Powerful Diesel Motor and they did it by going In-House once again. While I don't consider GM to be a bad product at all, I think truck comparisons aside, Fords Heavy Duty Platform continues to Outsell Both GM and Dodge by a considerable amount because it is the most True to Form Heavy Duty Pickup over the last Decade and Change and most people have come to know this common fact. With GM dumping the Chevy Kodiak and GMC Topkick, it's clear GM is having issues staying afloat, While Ford continues to expand on there Medium Duty Platform Trucks in the F650-750 series delivering with their New 6-Speed Trans, a V10 Option and Possibly the 6.7 Powerstroke.

All I gotta say is "Built Ford Tough!"

Why is nbody talking about Dodge?

@ Evan,

I even heard the Ram 4500 and 5500 are gaining sales..and the Dodge Ram is the better truck(just because a vehicle sells more doesnt mean its better,remember the majority of people are stupid/ignorant),Ford optimised its sales to large fleet sales for its trucks,they target companies and with cheap rates,more so than Dodge....GM is behind Ford in doing so..Toyota does the same with its cars..very cheap pricing for fleet buys....thus more sales !

Chrysler said its going to adjust its truck prices,ever look at a Chrysler lot..all of its vehicles are thousands more than the competition,so no wonder they dont sell as many...You cant even find a base model half ton..Go to a Ford and GM lot they have a huge selection of all cab configurations...The biggest reason Dodge is lagging in sales in the U.S,lack of trucks/vehicles at dealers.In Canada Dodge Ram sales are soaring,just a little behind Ford and more than GMC/Chev ...Again they adjusted their prices in Canada a few years ago,still more expensive than Ford and GM....but closer than before..

No talk of Dodge because the discussion has been dominated by Chevy Lovers taking claim to their supposed Victory in every tests without reading the tests.

Media has become soft over the years and have turn to a liking of the all important "CUSH" factor and performance. Somewhere along the lines they totally forgot about what Die Hard Truck Users look for, a aruck that doesn't just claim to be "Heavy Duty" but actually is Built Heavy Duty.
Take the time to look at the components of all 3 trucks and it'll surprise many at how much more beefy and heavier the components of the Super Duty are over it's competition. It's not just coincidence that Ford HD's are significantly heavier than its competition.

By the way, there has been Ford's, particularly with the 7.3 that have neared or reached the Million Milestone. Bottom line is Dodges do make decent trucks with a great motor but they've had their share of problems that seem to place their trucks below GM and more so below Fords. The only thing that GM has going for them is a Good Diesel and the Allison, well at least the name, but personally Ford's transmissions don't carry the Allison Name but I still think they're stronger than the Allison, it'd be a toss up at this point between Ford and GM's Transmission 6-speed Choice.

Lou:
I would find it very hard to justify buying a diesel truck unless I towed all the time. How about you? The fuel economy differences between the gas and diesels are not as big as I expected. The gas trucks pulled good in the shootout. The extra $8000 price premium for a diesel engine is a big factor. Do you know how much a F250 with a 6.2 and the Ram with the 5.7 can tow? I believe that a lot of people would compare the 3/4 ton gassers to the 1/2 ton trucks. Thanks. Great points about the bankruptcy and the Ram.

Lou:
Great points about the GM bankruptcy and the Ram.

@Bryan. No worries. All manufacturers outsource. It just the way it is.

I think its amazing that Ford can still continue to sell as many super duty trucks as they do since they really havn't had a good diesel engine since 2003. I hope this new one is better than the last two. Does anyone know what percentage of Super Duty's sales are diesel and what percent are gas? All I can say is that the Ford boys must be one loyal group. Congrats to Ford.

Barry, what was wrong with the 6.4?

Where I work our 2008 F-250 has been in the shop a lot. The EGR Valve has been replaced once already and its uses about a half gallon of antifreeze every oil change. When we first got it it was regenerating all the time and would leave a cloud of smoke behind you. Now its in the shop again. Yesterday the engine light came on and all the guages were fine. Drove about 5 more miles and a message came up on the display and said Find A Safe Place To Pull Over. I pulled off the road and as soon as I came to a stop the engine shut off and wouldn't even let you try to start it again. Not very impessed with that motor. It has a little over 70,000 on it now. As far as the rest of the truck I love it. It has been a better truck than our 2007 F-550 with the 6.0 in it. That truck has been a nightmare! Cant tell you how many times that one has been in the shop.

7.3 was a good engine for the time. They had many years to perfect it. The 4R100 tranny on the other hand was nothing to write home about.

6.0 was a disaster on more than one front. Ford lost money keeping it warranty repaired.

I've hear less negatives on the 6.4L but Ford saw fit to pull the plug so that speaks volumes.

In my book the 6.7L is in need of lots of tweaking to make it competitive. I'd wait a few years before adding a 6.7L to the stable.