Ford Debuts Gasoline-Powered F-650 Medium Duty Work Truck

Ford Debuts Gasoline-Powered F-650 Medium Duty Work Truck

Although Ford discontinued the 6.8-liter V-10 gas engine as an option for its 2011 Super Duty pickups, the company debuted the first application of the 6.8 engine for its 2012 F-650 medium-duty chassis truck at the NTEA Work Truck Show in Indianapolis.

Today's Ford F-650 commercial truck is offered with a Cummins inline-six diesel engine, a variation of the same six-cylinder oil burner offered in Ram HD pickups and chassis cabs. But like other diesel engines, prices for the oil burner have gone up as emissions regulations for diesels have gotten tougher. In Classes 4 to 7, prices have jumped 36 percent on average, according to Todd Kaufman, Ford's F-Series chassis cab marketing manager.

Diesel fuel also carries a premium at the pump over gasoline.

"With diesel prices outstripping gasoline by more than 10 cents a gallon in many parts of the country, the timing is perfect for a gasoline powertrain in a medium-duty truck," Kaufman said.

The powerful 6.8 is rated at a diesel-like 362 horsepower and 457 pounds-feet of torque. Instead of being paired with Ford's legacy 5R110 five-speed automatic transmission, the 6.8 will be mated with the all-new 6R140 six-speed gearbox with double overdrive gears and available power takeoff.

Ford-f650-560-2

The gas powertrain is expected to cost about $8,000 less than a comparable diesel. Today's starting price for the F-650 with the Cummins diesel is $57,180.

Though diesel engines are generally up to 30 percent more fuel efficient than gasoline engines, Ford hopes with just the right powertrain calibrations to close that gap to as low as 10 percent with the 6.8-liter/6R140 combo, according to Kaufman.

A compressed-natural-gas option will also be available for the 6.8.

The Class 7 Ford F-650 with the 6.8 V-10 will have a gross vehicle weight rating of 30,000 pounds and a gross combined weight rating of 33,000 pounds.

Ford will start taking orders for the F-650 gasser by the third quarter of 2011. It will be available in two chassis configurations: Pro-Loader with 19.5-inch wheels or dock height with 22-inch wheels.

The F-650 and F-750 will also receive an all-new interior shared with the Ford F-Series Super Duty pickups.

The F-650 6.8 will be available to order this October, with production scheduled to start in the first quarter of 2012.

Comments

Shouldn't be much worse than the usage of the same V10 in sizable RV's, right?

seems like smart move to offer a gas version of this truck especially with the updates.. why because diesel seems to be a target for the beaurocrats still.. Cost all around to own and operate a diesel is significantly higher.. Yea sure sucks their charging a premium for basically refined petroleum waste..but hey watta-ya-gonna-do REVOLT?!

I like that they are offering a CNG version. I wish Ford had a bi-fuel CNG F150. For the equivalent of a gallon of Gas it is $1.39 here with pretty good availability.

I wonder if there are any changes to the 6R140 to be able to handle a Class 7 application? I know the Allison 2000 is slightly modified vs. the Allison 1000 to be able to handle the heavier duty applications. If the 6R140 is the exact same transmission, that's pretty impressive to me.

I have heard ford is going to list the fuel economy from miles per gallon to feet per gallon.

Let me get this straight, it's OK for ford to add F-150,250,350,450,550,650,750 together when tabulating their sales numbers but it's not OK GM to add Silverado and GMC together when tabulating their truck sales?

Don't you just love the ford fans logic? Yea that's fair. not.

@mike levine

I was thinking the same thing as Paul. Do you know the differences in the 6r140 from f-150 to super duty to the chassis truck? It sure boosts my confidence in that transmission the way they're willing to use it in such a range of trucks.

CNG burns fast same power so its like 2 dollars a gallon CNG compared to almost 4 diesel and gas

Bob, F-650 and F-750 are Heavy Trucks and are not added together with F150 and Super Duty. Wise up.

Adding a gasser to the medium duty mix makes a lot of sense. There is no alternative to diesel in the medium market since GM quit making trucks with the 8.1L gasser.

Another added bounus I'd also expect is a ligher overall weight which would lead to increased payload.

Good call Ford

@ Bob yes they do count them as the same because they are part of the same series F-150 through F750. Now GM counts the GMC and Chevy lines as different companies. It is how the parent company chose to list the items. Does that make sense to you?

@Bob What does your rant have to do with this blog now? You are just trying to get people all fired up for nothin...just your own opinion which I am considdering worthless since you have shown a lack of respect for anyone on this site.

Bob,
What truck do you drive? S10, Colorado, or Silverado?

Fill 'er up Please!

Once again the crickets are chirping uncontrollably at GM .

@Bob- no one cares.
@Taylor- GM didn't get out of the business because it was too profitable. It cost money and had to go.
@Paul- since the 6R140 has a lot less torque to deal with, its probably quite happy in this application. I'd be surprised if the Cummins is bolted to the same trans.We're also talking about seriously deep gears here, so less stress on the trans.

For larger fleets, the diesel still makes sense, but if this were to be the top of your fleet, keeping things all gas can make it simpler.

Good move. IMO, diesel is not cost effective. Look at all of the medium duty gas-powered trucks produced in the 60s-90s --> tens of thousands.
How long before someone bolts those mirrors on an F250? They look pretty cool ;-)

I don't remember the last time I saw a manufacturer change something in a truck to drop the price by 8K! haha usually it seems like we've been going the other way around.

Ford 6.8L V10 = Best damn gas engine I ever owned in a Truck!

HANDS DOWN!

I would buy another!!!!

I'm about to sell both my F250 6.8L & 7.3L for that Raptor.

I have been looking for used Raptors in CA.

I am about to pull that trigger.

Is this 6.8 L engine a punched out 6.2?

Ford does not include all of its truck sales towards the "F" series total.
They count up to F550. Ford sold 21,134 F450 and F550 models.
If you want to get into a grand total sort of debate:
Ford combined (F150 - F550 + Ranger + Sport Trac) = 913,334
Even if you remove F450 and F550 Ford still outsold GMC = 892,200.
GMC combined (Sierra + Silverado HD + LD + Colorado + Canyon + Avalanche + Cadillac EXT) = 822, 713
So if you remove any truck larger than an F450 Ford outsold GMC by 69,487 units.

@ Bob - since you always want to total everything up - here is the true answer.
When it comes to Trucks Ford outsold GMC.
Period.
End of discussion.
Let it be written. Let it be done.

Just the facts!

@Lou,

No. This is the same base V10 from 1999 but it's a 3-Valver with a 6sp.

@ Frank - thanks.
I thought that Ford had totally killed the V10.

Looks like Bob is trying to get this thread shut down.
He needs to go polish the few remaining patchs of paint on his '93 S10.

@Lou- just stop feeding him. You guys can argue about this when the monthly sales number post comes out. Until then, no-one else cares. Just leave it alone.

89CrewCab: Yes on those mirrors.
Frank: Love our 6.8 too.
Ford: Right product move at this time.

Lou - You forgot Chevy Suburban with a sunroof. It is based on a truck and as long as it has a open top or sunroof it can be classified as a pickup truck. GM wins again.

The 6.8 V10 has an almost diesel like quality. A medium duty truck(it would be called that here in Australia) of that size with 457lbs ft of torque would be pretty slow. The basic F650 has a 500lbs ft of torque Cummins, in uprated mode 800lbs ft of torque.

@ Bobby - never can tell with guys like you. What is a Surban? A truck on planet DoorQuad?

Leave it to Ford to offer consumers a lot of choices!

Frank-

When you finally pull the trigger on the F-150 S.V.T. Raptor...please give us a report. I am anxious to read your thoughts. Heck, we should get together for some wheeling? Your Raptor and my Power Wagon! Good luck!

I wouldnt be suprised if the V10 F650 was faster then the cummins diesel option. The gas v10 has low end torque but also loves to rev to 5k RPM. Different gearing for different engines. The V10 can put more torque to the ground with the proper gearing then the diesel. It just won't be getting as much mileage as the diesel engines that run at idle speed. Unloaded and stock the V10 F350 was always faster then the Powerstroke.

I think the 6R140 transmission is durable enough for a truck this size, but I have doubts the 6.8L V-10 will last in that application.

@Bob

You see, I told you the last time I commented to you. You will cry and moan all day about Ford fans talking crap about GM...But then you come to completely UN GM Related article and start talking trash yourself.

Your seriously pathtic dude.

I'm also curious what this truck would get for fuel economy.....especially loaded. I know in an F250 the 6.8L engine is lucky to get 10mpg.....in a truck like this I doubt it will see high single digits. Throw a load in the back and it would probably get pretty close to 1 gallon per mile. Hope it has a big tank.

Actually ford overbuilt the v10 and 5.4. There are plenty of million mile examples out there. They usually always outlasted the diesels as far as major repair costs goes. MPG is what strays most company buyers. I would take a 10% fuel economy loss unless I was driving over 100,000 mi a year. $8,000 cheaper truck, more reliable without all the emissions junk, and easier/ cheaper to maintain. Not having to worry about breaking down with a proven engine is priceless in itself.

Nice rig, maybe this will convince GM to get back into this business. I like the idea of a gasser (love the power of diesels but don't like the noise, smell, price, cost to maintain, etc.) and the v10 should be a nice fit. Good going Ford. Are those headlights borrowed from an older model Dodge Ram?

@Buy American or say Bye to America!

We can wheel now. Got the V10 lifted on some Super Swampers with some quads in the back


Azusa Canyon up Highway 39 is my Fav on Sundays.


@Darryl
Those lights look the same as they have been for years.

Wish the 6.8L was an option with the 6speed in the f2-350

Frank-

My V8 is stock with measly All-Terrain tires. I would just get buried. The fire roads, around Silverwood Lake and Lake Arrowhead are more my forte. I have seen pictures, in the magazines, of the trucks that go out to Azusa Canyon. These things are monster trucks! A far cry from my tiny stock truck on 35" tires.

V-10 overbuilt? Where? It is a FWD car engine with 2 cylinders added. Aluminum heads, no cam bearings, small rods and bearings, lots of plastic parts. We have a lot of Tritons in our fleet, and they are O.K. until 100,000 in heavy commercial service. Much beyond that we see high oil consumption, exhaust manifold stud breakage, loose spark plugs, noisy/loose timing chains. From a durability standpoint, I think the 6.8L V-10 was quite inferior to the GM 8.1L. BTW- Freightliner is reported to be offering these CNG/LPG engines in 2010:
http://www.originengines.com/
Based on the Chevy Mark VI Big Blocks, these engines are all cast iron, feature forged pistons and rods, have piston cooling jets and a lot of other heavy duty commercial service parts in them. That's a truck engine.

@Buy American or say Bye to America!

Don't you worry if you sink like the Titanic. I will pull you out.

We all look out for each other, but let me tell you, the Chevy boys up there are a bunch of whiners.

@Big Bob,

I think one of the key factors when looking at both the Ford and GM gas engine is the design of the engine itself. The manufacturers have completely different philosophies, and I think it's rather intriguing if you look closely at the differences.

The GM motor is a huge 496ci Big Block V8 motor, compared to the "small" 6.8L V10.

Now, why does this motor have to be so huge to make only make 30HP/TQ more at similar RPM?

Looking at the numbers, the Ford V10 makes 45.59 HP per liter vs the GM engine that makes 42 per liter.

If you look closely at the engine design, you can see the Ford uses a long stroke/small bore design while the GM engine is a long stroke/large bore motor.

In fact, the bore size of the GM engine is nearly the same as the stroke length of the motor.

Some advantages to the Ford design are loads of bottom end torque production for the small displacement, lighter pistons, and less total rotating weight. Also what must be looked at is the SOHC design. Basically the Ford motor is a more efficient piece any way you look at it.

The GM engine, by being so much larger requires more fuel to feed it and clearly does not get nearly the mileage that most V10's get. It also is an old technology OHV design that is not nearly as efficient as a SOHC engine. Looking at all the facts, the numbers don't really add up in GM's favor unless all you are looking at is HP/Tq numbers.

No question the Ford V-10 is more efficient, and better suited for a 'light' truck (pickup). What I find strange is that Ford didn't develop a medium duty truck version of the new 6.2L 'Boss' V-8 for the F-650. I was told the whole point of the 6.2L was to replace the 6.8L V-10, because the V-10 is expensive to produce (high parts count, needs a balance shaft, ect.).

The one thing you have to remember about the V10 over any V8 is that you have 5 cylinders firing per revolution versus 4. That increases the actual "real" torque compared to any similar displacement, given everything else being somewhat similar.

So a smaller V8 being 6.2L will not really do as good a job, everything else being the same. The fact that the 6.2 is mated to a 6-speed, while the V10 was only available with a 5-speed or worse the 4-speed 4R100, helps it overall tow as well.

As for the "FWD car" engine comment, well, yes, that's a valid comparison. If that FWD engine has 4-bolt main caps which are ALSO cross-bolted, and a steel crank.

The key to make a Ford Triton motor last is CHANGE THE OIL!!! Do that and 300k is a non issue. You take of it and it takes care of you.

The Triton/Modulars had a steel crank because the main bearing journal width was too narrow to adequately support a cast crank. The overall design was compromised to make the engine as short (water pump to flywheel) as possible, so it would fit in a large size FWD car. The biggest problem was this left the Triton/Modular with very narrow bore spacing, which in turn ment small bore pistons and not much room for valves (large valves would be shrouded by the cylinder walls). This pretty much forced Ford to adopt 3 and 4 valve heads to improve breathing. The V-10 came along because former Ford CEO Jac Nasser dictated that Ford would only build one family of V-8 engines. This short-sighted edict forced Ford's engineers to design a V-10 to get the displacement over 6L for larger light trucks like the Super Duty. There was no way to make the V-8 Triton/Modular larger than 5.4L.

As far as I am concerned, the 6.2L V8 is a replacement for the 5.4L. It has been mentioned that Ford is toying with the prospect of a 7.0L+ V8 gas engine designed strictly for Heavy Duty Truck use. If this is the case then this new Big Block would replace the 6.8L V-10 (Which is no longer offered in anything smaller than an F-450). This engine would also prove a viable option for those who don't want to pay 8,000$ or 9,000$ for a new Diesel, but need more than what the 6.2L has to offer.

I've also heard rumors, that the 6.2L may recive the ''Ecoboost'' treatment to substantally increase its power/torque ratings.

Great tech info guys.
A pleasant change from the brand bashing drivel that ruins these threads.

I agree the 6.8L V10 is one of the best engines Ford has produced. I have a 1999 F350 with 238,567 miles on it, it has pulled a 15,000lbs GN trailer almost its entire life and is still runnning strong. Like said earlier "change the oil" do it every 5,000 miles and use a good synthetic.
Its perfect in terms of size, power and economy(cost) nothing really compares. and they run so smooth (electric motor like smooth) those 10 cylinders just purrr.
I believe Ford MD truck will be a winner with that engine, If construction business picks up I will be buying one for sure.

I would be astonished if the fuel consumption was within 10% of the diesel when fully loaded, and who buys a truck like this based on its empty fuel consumption?

Only thing I know about durability of the V10 vs. the GM Big Block comes from the Catalyst R&D guys- they use these engines for catalyst aging, running them very close to rated power for days on end*. The GM motors regularly outlast the V10 by quite a large margin.

*WOT, 4000 RPM, consistent cooling, huge custom headers, Mobil1 changed regularly.

I don't think either of the two engines makes or breaks the truck. In other words, I wouldn't buy a Chevy or Ford based on the engine alone.

With Ford you get a Dana front solid axle, manual hubs, high ride height and clearance and for 2005 they got an available built in break controller.

With GM you get IFS, no manual hubs, and a frame clearance that's so low as to nearly render the truck useless for any serious off road work application.

Those factors are some of the things I appreciate with the Superduty line.

Thanks!



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