At least it's good to know the Ram team is still working. Looks like change was long overdue. They say it gets up to 18/27mpg in a Chrysler 300. Maybe 16/23 in a RAM 1500?

V6's wars in the half tons. nice

with $4 a gallon people don't want V8's

plus some truck will never tow anything. let alone over 9,000lbs.

it's not how big your engine is under the hood but how BIG you bed is.

So as a fairly strong GM supporter, I only have to wonder if anybody is listening over at GM's gas powertrain department??? Glad to hear that the other 2 have stepped up the gas engines... Let's go GM.

@Alan: Next-Gen Silverado and Sierra will have an all-new six-cylinder. 2013 calendar year, 2014 model year.

Nice to see the engine war continuing.
A new V6 from Ram hopefully signals the fact that things will shift from a HP war to a MPG war.
Too bad GM is coming late to the party.

See, Bob, I told you so. 2014 MY for the new GM's. Not 2012. It's going to be a lonnnnnnnng wait for GM fans.

Good news! The Ram 1500 needs a much needed boost in the base motor department. Perhaps with the new 3.6L V6, and a new transmission, it will be more gutsy than the current 4.7L Magnum V8 and 545RFE Orion (6-spd.) transmission?

All of Chryslers products with the V6 are will recieving the 8-speed transmission. The 300 V-6 is rated at 33mpg with the 8-speed. If the Ram 1500 recieves the 8-speed, which i'm sure it will. We'll looking at 25 to 26, possibly 27 mpg highway.

Glad to see my favorite maker throwing their hat in the circle w/ the v6 wars. Although the pentastar v6 will be no powerhouse it will not make owning a v6 halfton Dodge (or RAM w/e) a pain I have driven halfton v6 Dodges Fords and Chevys for work and just let me say but a empty tool box in the bed and they become super slugs at least the probable outuput for the pentastar v6 will come close to the old 4.7

It would be interesting to see how the little v6 holds 8th gear with the extra 1500 weight and less than ideal pickup aerodynamics.

so the 4.0 Tundra with 270 HP and 278 lb. ft. of torque didnt get a mention as competition from wards i assume right?? interesting......

I wouldn't count out a turbo charged V6. Knowing how competitive the Ram brand is. I would be surprised if it wasn't. Look for numbers to be the same or better than the F-150's eco-boost V6.

@Mike Levine the 3 Litre diesels outsell similar gas V6's for pickups by a considerable margin in Australia and elsewhere They are bought for the fuel economy and pulling power.I wonder if GM and others will follow Nissan's lead and offer similar options as well? The price of fuel is going to be trending upwards for quite a while.

@hemi lol
I noticed the same thing but that might be for our own protection (stop the bashing) I say lets not mention tundra in this article.

Mike any news on the 65 and 66RFE transmission? Lots of rumors this weekend that the Hemi equipped trucks and SUVs will get them next year.

Also, will this be getting the same benz 5 speed auto that the wrangler will be getting.

Thanks.

I can't wait til 2013 when gas will be less than $1.50 again and diesel is 20 cents higher than regular gas. Half ton diesel engines will cost $5000. more than the gas. Plus more expensive manitence. I can't wait.

Diesel half ton at 30 mpg: 15k miles at $1.70 per gallon = $850.00 for the year

Gas half ton at 25 mpg: 15k miles at $1.50 per gallon = $900 for the year.

Disel costs $50 less per year on fuel.

If the engine costs $5000 more it will take 100 YEARS to break even.

With higher maintenance it will take even longer than 100 years.

Using today's current fuel prices it will take 20 years to break even.

Just in case you guys didn't know. The Ram box will be available for the Heavy Duties, eletric towing rear-view mirrors, and they are also recieving the 6.4 liter Hemi. Jeep will also be getting a 6-speed for the Hemi powered Cherokee. All next year.

Ram 1500 is getting a 6-speed for the Hemi next year also. Not sure about the Wrangler. Thou rumor has it that it will be getting a 5-speed.

@Dave - Put the diesel in the half ton and be done with it. I don't care what it costs as long as it gets 30 mpg!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen Fred.

@dave

Consider:
mpg while towing
The power available
Engine longeviity

Great. jUst keep it going. I still say there is no reason why these pickups should not eventuall get 20 MPG around town and 30 MPG on the highway

@Lou definitely agree, it's time for the truck manufacturers to start a MPG war, we've got plenty of power, now it's time to diversify the engines based upon peoples needs

No full size truck will get 30 mpg hwy. The issue is simply the size and shape of the truck. full size trucks have large frontal areas and square shape. That means alot of air reistance and that means more fuel to keep it moving. Some cars with v6's can get 30 mpg, but they are much more aero dynamic.

Currently mid size diesel SUV's can get 25 mpg hwy. Mercedes ML350 diesel gets 25 mpg hwy. Very good, but that is in more aero dynamic package than a full size truck.

@Dave: You forgot diesel pickups hold better resale value.

How else will manufacturers get high fuel economy aside from smaller and less capable pickups? Battery power, with its 500-1000lbs of batteries penalty, limits payload.

Why would you care about 30 mpg and not care about cost, when even at 30 mpg there is no payoff?

Cost and Longevity....15,000 miles x 100 years is 1.5 million miles and 15,000 miles x 20 years will be 300,000 miles and you still will not break even due to the higher maintenance.

MPG towing....You couldn't tow enough to make it profitable.

Power...the small diesels will have less power. 220 hp was in the target in the last post on the Nissan.

Consumers pay more when they get something in return as with hybrids and plugs-ins.

Pickup manufacturers need to lose the macho, square, blocky aerodynamic pickup profiles. There's much catching up to do. And they won't do it unless the gov't prods them.

Dave,

The only way fuel prices are going to drop 60% from today's levels is if we go through another world wide recession, in which case none of us is going to be thinking about purchasing any new truck regardless of mileage. Prices might dip down at times but we are talking about at least $3 per gallon gas, on average, in the US forever and that figure will rise over time. Increasing worldwide demand will see to that.

The diesel options may cost as much as $5000 more than a gasser but considering VW and Mercedes can do it for about $1-2k more I'd suspect that a 3.0 or 2.8 diesel in a 1/2 ton would be about the same upgrade price and that is much easier to overcome.

I also agree with Jp, physics won't allow the current shape of trucks to get 30 mpg's but 25 ish is a real possibility on the highway. Lighter weight will help improve the city mpg's. If they can get the overall average fuel economy to be at or over 20 mpg's that will be a real boon for the truck industry.

I see all of this happening over the next 3-5 years.

@Alan- There are a few things slowing GM down. They haven't rolled out a 6-speed auto between the 6L50 and 6L90, which is what the V6 needs in a truck- the car trans is too small, while an oversize transmission is to heavy, costly and lossy. Then there is the cost of integrating the engine into the GMT900- they probably figure the investment isn't worth while for the few trucks they might sell- moving people down from V8s doesn't help the bottom line.
@Buy American- the 4.7 engine is not long for this world. The GC and Durango no longer use it, and the Dakota is gone. Only leaves the Ram1500. With the elimination of the 3.7V6, it will no longer share an arcitecure with anything.
@Emilio- as nice as that would be- look for 23-24 mpg. Anything more is just at the limit of how much energy it takes to push a big, heavy brick down the road.
@Hemi LOL- Toyota should just drop the A750 trans and put the A760 behind the 1GR in both the Tacoma and Tundra. give them 4.10 and 4.30 gears respectively. That would still lower cruising RPM, while adding power on the bottom.
@Robert Ryan- as good as 3l TDs are, they are just cost prohibitive in most applications in the US, because of our non-subsidized fuel and the expensive emissions equipment.

@Lou -
Stop hating on diesels in half tons!!!! I don't care about the price premium if it gets 30 mpg! GM is not late to any party!!!!!!! GM was the top of the line truck in 2007 and they will do it again!!!!!!!!!!!

US fossil fuels are hugely subsidized via oil industry tax breaks and direct government funding as well as US military power abroad.

@ Dave,
$5000 diesel options are rip off plain and simple. US manufactures do that because they can. Euro mfgs make diesels for every day driving for costs reasons. Diesels are popular in europe due to their fuel economy and low inital buy in.

Today if you are looking at Mercedes SUV the diesel option IS the value option.

We need good diesels and reasonable price. These 400hp/800ftlb diesels are nice motors, but overkill for alot of buyers. Now I can see wanting that much power if you are going to pay $7000 more than a gas truck, but how about $1000 more and 280hp and 400 ftlbs? Mercedes can do it with their diesels so why not the Americans?

Small diesels in full size trucks and full size SUV's are great options as they can give solid fuel ecnomy and great torque for hauling both basic vehcile mass and and cargo.

Diesel might be nice in the short-term, but all long-term signs still point to hydrogen fuel cells.
GM has had a competitive V6 for a few years, there must be a reason why it never got used in the trucks. Lack of durability? lack of fuel economy? The 3.6 DOHC DI definitely has the power.

After direct injection is applied. The work you do will be the only varable concerning mpg. Work requires a specific amount of fuel. Improvements in efficiencies cannot justify the costs anymore.

Alex,

H2 at current technology is a pipe dream. It suffers from the same drawbacks as ethanol. It takes more energy to produce it than it generates. It is like spending $1 just to get $.75 back and calling it a good deal.

On top of the generation standpoint the infrastructure needed to support it is cost prohibatively expensive. You don't just run it down the existing pipelines. It requires complete isolation from any other substnace, the metal in the tubes has to be pure so it doesn't react and it requires tremendous pressure at all times.

I'd like to see it work but somehow you'd have to have some type of free energy source to produce it and then you'd have to transport it somehow. There are some test procedures that seem to be working for extracting H2 out of water using sunlight (artifical leaf) but that can't obviously be in use 24/7 and that only accounts for one piece of the equation and if memory serves me this method has to use perfectly distilled water as the initial fuel source and that further complicates things.

@Ken- what I was getting at was the fact that pump price for diesel in Europe is lower than for gasoline, because of the lower tax rate. This, in effect, is a subsidy.
@JP- look up pricing on the VW diesels vs the gas models- VW would LOVE to out-sell the hybrids, but they can't.
@Alex- Methanol fuel cells are much more promising IMHO.

Sales of V6 F-150's are now greater than sales of V8's.

V8 engine lovers. RIP.

@ Fred - wwwhaat????? I did not mention diesel engines in any shape or form. But since you brought it up:
For the most part, I'd agree with Dave. A 5,000 dollar baby diesel has no return on investment based on current and future costs predictions. I'd consider one if it was maybe a 1,000 - 1,500 more than a premium gas engine.
Cummins/Nissan is on the right track with a small diesel (if the price is right).
GM is coming out with new trucks and drivetrains for the 1/2 tons in MY 2014 which translates to the fall or maybe late summer of 2013. Rumor is Ford and Ram will be no later than 2013 MY, which translates to fall 2012.
That would be one year away as opposed to 2 years away.
Doesn't that qualify as "coming late"?
Sure GM has the 5.3 which has okay power and good MPG, but that is only one engine in their lineup.
The 4.3 is a good engine, but for power and economy it is a joke. I had one in a GM van. My 5.4 SuperCrew 4x4 gets 2 mpg worse fuel economy around town, and since I've been playing around with hypermiling - I'm gettin the same MPG.

We could get much better MPG if we changed our driving habits. Hypermilers drove around the USA with 5 people and a load of gear in a F150 EB3.5 4x2 and averaged 32 mpg. GM's Duramax while testing was at times getting 30 mpg on the track.
All of the manufactures are talking about active aerodynamic systems, smaller trucks, and lighter materials. I do not think 30 mpg is too far away. Several guys have pointed out we need to get over the need for big, angular, boxie truck shapes.

This baby needs the 8spd tranny for sure, the NAG in the Jeep with this engine and 3.04 gears is one belemic piece on the bottom end, needing to be really wound up to make the power. Unfortunately even though the NAG has an extra gear before O/D, the shift points are similar to the 545 RFE. My guess is that we'll see the 3.21 gears as standard on the Rams.

Ford uses a 6spd, with 5 gears before O/D on their V6 powered Explorer and Flex and it is awesome. The 8 spd should be even better, with 6 gears before O/D and tall axle gears.

@ Dave

Your math is a little off. $5000 would be like buying a 6.6 Duranax for a half-ton, not a baby diesel. The 4.5 Dmax would probably run $3500 and a 3L would probably run $2000. The 4.5 Duramax can get 25mpg, a 3L could get 30 probably. The best trucks trucks today only get 23 mpg. Fuel costs about $3.95 for gas and $4.15 for diesel. That's $2075 a year for diesel (15k miles) and $2575 for gas. A baby diesel could pay for itself in less than 5 years.

@Mr knowitall, I guarantee that a 8-speed V6 would get at least 25 mpg, at least. This ain't no ordinary 8-speed tranny, truck or engine.

"Ram 1500 Getting Pentastar V-6 Next Year"

I didn't know Dodge was still making trucks......who's buying them ;-)

mhowarth, I still think it is far more promising than the current technology, which also takes a lot of energy to find, drill, collect, refine, and transport just to put in our vehicles. But anyway, the point was more about diesel being a current, not future technology. I believe most of the disadvantages of hydrogen can be overcome. Anything that can be transmitted by pipeline or electricity to a fueling station is a good thing in my opinion.

I hope that either the VM Motori 2.8L or 3.0L turbodiesel makes it into this truck as an option.

Jp the reason for the price difference is all the fault of the EPA, have you ever taken a look at the exhasts systems in those trucks! retail over the counter is around $3,500 for just the header pipe back!, and no tailpipe, just the system in the middle,(I don't n\know what it's called), but it looks like a small jet engine down there?!!!

Matt-

Clearly more people are buying Rams; than G.M.C. (Sierra), Toyota (Tundra), and Nissan (Titan) combined, practically.

With the ZF 8 speed automatic, the 300 V6 should return 30mpg highway, and 20 city.
Due to the difference in Cd and swept area, 18/24 should be a realist mileage estimate for a 4x2 V6 Ram.

GM does have a transmission between the 6L90 and 6L50, it is called 6L80.

Toyota would be wise to upgrade to 8 speed automatics before GM does.

I wonder if they can expand this engine to a V-8?, that would be what,a 4.8 litre with what about 390-400 hp, w/375-390ftlbs? or more?, that would be a great replacment for the 4.7? no? or just think about the Challenger!, no big lump of a Hemi over the front wheels, same on the Ram!!! that would be a sweet reg. cab 4X4 short bed! w/maybe even a manual? oh I can dream can't I?

@Sandman I totally see them making the Pentastar 3.6 into a 4.8 V-8, less parts. By building the 3.6 They eliminated a bunch of mediocore V-6s that could not keep pace.