2012 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor Off-Road Trail Test

Raptor 8
We have to admit it’s a little confusing. First, SVT goes to all the trouble to turn the new Ford F-150 into one of the world’s most capable desert-running full-size trucks. Sure, it took brand-new heavy-duty, long-travel suspension components to make it happen, and SVT was investing all this time and money to be the instant leader in a segment where really no one cared to be, but that didn’t matter. To its credit, SVT came out of the gate full speed, never looking back. 

But then something happened. In fact, many folks in the media said a pre-running pickup truck that you can beat up over rutted dirt roads and lumpy sand washes was fine, but why shy away from real four-wheel-drive prowess like the Ram Power Wagon has? Is that why you didn’t make a serious 4x4, they prodded. After all, they said, many more people use their 4x4 switch or lever or button to go slow — be it on a trail, to the cabin or for better pulling power — than they do blasting through remote open desert. 

Some of the hardcore four-wheeling journalists and consumer critics said the SVT Raptor was a good niche vehicle, but with an open diff on such a big truck, it really can’t be called a very good off-road vehicle. So that got the SVT engineers thinking, “What if?”

Eventually, that “what if” turned into the 2012 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor, which is pretty much identical to the 2011 model except for a new Torsen limited-slip differential for the front and a new front camera in the grille. 

We’ve already noted some of the pricing and U.S. sales figures in a previous post, so here we will talk specifically whether these slight additions make the Raptor as powerful going slowly through the rocks as it is going like a bat out of hell through the desert. 

Raptor 1
Again, to its credit, Ford didn’t shy away from this challenge and took a small group of journalists to the ultimate rock-crawling playground, in the hills in and around Moab, Utah. It’s an area famous for a certain type of geological rock, called slickrock by the locals, that feels like 100-grit sandpaper to the touch and provides an amazing amount of traction for big-tired Jeeps and four-wheelers. (The name slickrock was given to these formations in the 1800s when the only mode of transportation was horseback, and shoed and unshoed horses alike would skate on the rocks like they were made of ice. Many a bank robber successfully hid from a posse in these hills just for that reason, we’re told.) 

At the parking lot at the beginning of Hell’s Revenge trail, we could air down the 35-inch BFGoodrich all-terrain tires between 15 and 18 pounds per square inch, basically giving us 33-inch tires with a nice side bulge. Locked in low range and creeping in 1st gear, the extra grab from each tire was going to be needed. In front of us was a narrow ridge of slickrock, climbing onto a razorback just barely wider than the Raptor itself. 

After everyone got moving comfortably on the trail, thanks in part to our trail leader and Moab native Dan Mick, we settled in for hour after hour of steep hill climbs, narrow ledge crawls and unnerving side hill balancing acts, sometimes just 10 feet to the sandy bottom of the rock wall. Other times we were about 300 feet above the Colorado River, with the vertical face of the cliff just off the side of our sidewalls. 

All of our Raptors were SuperCab models to keep the wheelbase as short as possible because many of the obstacles on Hell’s Revenge deal with climb rock faces. It didn’t take long for several of our car-loving trail drivers to figure out that if you approach a rock face at a perpendicular angle, you’ll likely scrape the bumper or front tow hook. But if you approach the steep face at an angle, the flex of the suspension and traction at all four corners is the only way to navigate that section of steep trail.   

Raptor 10
In fact, it was only during these moments that the full benefits of the front Torsen were fully seen. (Actually, felt from the driver’s seat.)  The rest of the time, the front limited-slip diff was invisible. We were told this was because, unlike other race-tuned Torsens, Ford set the preload of the differential to zero so there would be very little detectable feedback when driven normally. However, when sensing slip at high or slow speed, the helical gears inside the diff ramp up on themselves and basically lock up at a given point to transfer torque from the slipping front tire to the tire with traction. 

As you might imagine, on the steep hill climbs and off-camber rock faces, the front Torsen gave us all the front grip we could handle. Naturally, many of our climbs required us to pull the four-wheel-drive selector out to engage the rear locker, and truthfully, we probably would have been just fine with most of the trail challenges simply with the rear locker. But, as our wise trail leader reminded us, very few people get in trouble in Moab by having too much traction. 

So we attacked the six-mile trail meandering over rocks and navigating through dry washes and onto slab surfaces as big as a shopping mall, all the while in low range speeding along at about 1 or 2 mph. We snaked through tree shrubs and even made our way into deep “bathtubs” where wind and rain had carved out truck-sized holes in the rock that allowed us to dip over the lip on one side, disappear into a 20-foot hole, then reappear on the other side as if we were climbing out of a grave. If it weren’t for the darkened tracks on the trail — from the hundreds of vehicles that come this way every year, each one leaving a tiny amount of tire rubber on the ground — no one would believe that this vehicle, let alone a full-size pickup truck, could enter the pit. 

Another particularly intimidating obstacle came at our lunch stop. Not only did we get to see some stunning radio-controlled helicopter acrobatics (our hosts invited them along to shoot video of us at various stops), but we got to watch a masterfully driven Raptor execute a flawless run up Hell’s Gate, a narrow wedge of rock that takes a delicate throttle and supernatural tire placement to keep from tipping over or wedging your vehicle sideways. The Raptor’s (and driver’s) performance was impressive.  

Raptor 13
Our favorite challenge, though, came after the snaking part of Hell’s Revenge where the trail winds around various bathtubs until you come to Dragon’s Back. As the name implies, it is a narrow ridge of rock with 100-foot drops on both sides, and you need to put your tires on either side of the dragon’s back ridge. And to complicate things, the ridge starts over a blind drop-off where you have to make a gentle left turn. At night, the darkness would be paralyzing, but even during the day it was a nerve-wracking panic attack of a drive. 

Still, this was the perfect situation to highlight one of Ford’s new options, the front-mounted camera. As we pulled up to the ledge, we saw that we needed to adjust our front tires slightly to the left then slowly proceed with the ridge between the blue lines. It was a little comforting once we got over the initial discomfort of not looking out the front window while driving. It’s worth mentioning that we’d normally not risk doing a trail like this without designated spotters to let us know where to turn and where to put the tires, but the camera seemed to act like a good spotter. 

Raptor 2
It does take some effort to remember you have the camera, unless it’s absolutely required. In some ways, it is just like using the rear camera only when hooking up a trailer or backing into a parking space. But on our trail drive, having the front camera turned on so that it always came on at speeds slower than 15 mph — which on our trail was all the time — was a nice added piece of information to keep our tires pointed in the right direction and on top of the right rocks. Visibility was quite good, with a healthy wide-angle aspect to the lens. Still, it gives you a clear idea of exactly what the front tires will make contact with in the near (or very near) future. 

The only damage to our vehicle was some slight scratches to the tailpipe and a few small scrapes to the side steps. With that said, we did notice the Raptor may not have been the best vehicle for this trail, given that just about everyone put some good scratches into the rocks with the rear tow hooks on several of the rock climbs. (Some just couldn’t get the hang of taking the rock faces at an angle). 

The final obstacle of the trail was a polished off-angle rock slab called Tip Over Challenge. The 20-yard section of rubber-rubbed rock slopes off to the right and has naturally formed grooves in the face that are just the right size to grab and twist at vehicle tires. At different points during the short climb (and it doesn’t matter what type of tire you have), you’ll find yourself steering to the left, wanting to climb in that direction, but sliding and slipping off to the right. The worst thing you can do at that moment is let off the throttle. The second-worst thing you can do is give too much throttle. So you modulate, fight your instincts, feather the throttle a little, then hunt for a touch more traction by slowly moving the steering wheel from right to left, all the time sliding deeper and deeper to the right. If you’re doing it right, you’ll feel one of the tires grab and give you a boost while another grabs a foothold and pulls you toward the large rock face up the hill. Then, right before you hit the outcropping much farther to the left than you think you should be, you turn to the right and climb off the slope. 

Raptor 14
Our guess is with more tire pressure, or without the Torsen front locker, or with a lesser driver, any one of those variables could have sent us over the edge, rolling into the waiting riverbed. Thankfully nothing bad happened. 

There’s no doubt that a Power Wagon, with its sway bar disconnects and front and rear lockers, would have done at least as well. Or it’s quite possible a Baja Series Toyota Tacoma, with its rugged frame and suspension, could have survived this trail as well. But given that fact many wouldn’t have put the 2011 Raptor in their company on this type of trail last year, this a particularly impressive feat. We knew the Raptor was good for desert-running off-road driving, but now it seems to be the king in all types of off-road terrain. We’re even told it is becoming famous for its winter driving prowess as well, though we’re not too sure about the BFG all-terrain as a snow or all-weather tire. But that debate is for another day. 

For this test, the score at the end of this trail ballgame was SVT Raptor 8 (we had eight trucks start the trail and all eight finished without drama), Hell’s Revenge 0.

Raptor 4

Raptor 5

Raptor 6

Raptor 7

Raptor 11

Raptor 12

Raptor TT

Comments

Robert Ryan:

I would live to have a diesel Ranger from Aussie Land :) Would consider trading in my Jeep Wrangler to get one. Too bad our emissions standards are strict. But, in a gas engines favor, they are kinda closing the gap a bit with Turbo's, direct injection, and CVVT/VVTi. IMHO, they are the perfect size for my everyday driver. My house was built in the 70's so the newer trucks here in USA would not fit in 4x4 form. A 2wd, however would.

i see frank is at it again...trolling like always.

@Red 4X4. Not stricter emission standards , different emission standards as Tier US standards do not meet Euro 5 or the even stricter Euro 6. US standards target Nox the Euro 5 Global standard targets C02 and particulates. You can get the same diesel engines meeting both targets i.e Japanese Light duty and MDT trucks sold in the US, VW Jetta, MB SUV's, Volvo and Mack Engine etc. The problem is the market very few people buy diesel engined vehicles in the US.

"Ford will will never compete with Dodge, what these pictures don't show you is the frame cracks and bending." -DodgeBoy

True. Since Dodge (Chrysler Corporation) is not Dodge anymore. In 1998 Daimler-Benz took over the Chrysler Corporation. In 2009/2010 Fiat picked up the remaining pieces of the Chrysler Group L.L.C.

I long for the day when the Chrysler Group L.L.C. (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram) is able to be a 100% American company, and stand on it's own feet, again. I will be proud when/if that day ever comes!

Until then, "Dodge" can not hold a candle to the Ford Motor Company!

Well, there is this bad connotation with some folks that diesel stinks. I can agree when something like what happened yesterday happens to people occasionally.

Yesterday, some dickwad in a jacked up diesel F350 blows smoke all inside my Jeep as he narrowly misses the back of my vehicle (obviously in an effort to scare me with his "larger" vehicle) on his was to get around me and stop at the intersection to wait for the traffic. I done nothing to this fellow, I was speeding slightly, so I wasn;t going to slow. My guess...He was trying to impress my wife, I don't know.

To be honest, if people would alleviate this kind of practice, that would likely knock out one of the few negatives people have with diesels.

Today's diesels, though, generally are clean burning and efficient. I would love to have that, or a EcoBoost type 4 cyl in my Wrangler, lighter, but more powerful than the current engine. A diesel powered Raptor would be great to, something along the line of a 3.5-4.0L 6 cyl diesel would be awesome. I would consider a truck like that and its price tag if it had a diesel.

Buy American: that day will come when the global economy starts practicing trade reform (elimnate nafta).

Ford is defintely creating some very tech packed, noce looking vehicles. Numbers prove this as well. Some people just cannot stand thr truth. Dodge/Chrysler makes nice vehicles too, and the new ram is defintely an improvement over the last model. The new PentaStar can compete damn near sqaurly with the new 3.7L offered by Ford. The thing is, Ford has that little jewel of a technology called "EcoBoost". That is where the industry is headed, and should be headed.

Such a beautiful truck. Silver or Red with hood graphics only. Why are they showing a Molten Orange Raptor? That color is dicontinued for 2012

I am sorry frank....yo are uh desent postar sorry for me roodness.

Let it be writeen.....

This truck is BAD-ASS!

No other automaker can match this!

Frank: true, the Raptor is in a class all of its own.

This truck is BAD-ASS!

No other automaker can match this!

Posted by: Frank | Nov 16, 2011 6:36:27 PM

I think you already established this several times in many posts in this article and others related to the Raptor. This truck excites you so much that I bet you look at photos of it and pleasure yourself...

@Bob - I didn't think that you would agree to my terms.
If one does not want to tone things down via self restraint, then someone else will have to step in.
I can see how you have a need to be wild someplace in your life. An 18 year old beater truck and a company car do not lend themselves to excitement. It must be frustratingly bitter for you to wake every morning and realize that you are already at ""Be All You Can Be" .

@Robert Ryan - the ralley concept you mentioned is where I think GMC should go with the Colorado but push the envelop even further.
Ram has the Power Wagon, Ford has the Raptor.
An extremely capable offroad compact would be a good niche to carve out.
Sure toyota has the TRD , but that isn't anything much different than a FX4 Ford package. The Baja package is a step in the right direction, but it is a wimpy step.

@Bob - I didn't think that you would agree to my terms.
If one does not want to tone things down via self restraint, then someone else will have to step in.
I can see how you have a need to be wild someplace in your life. An 18 year old beater truck and a company car do not lend themselves to excitement. It must be frustratingly bitter for you to wake every morning and realize that you are already at ""Be All You Can Be" .


Posted by: Lou | Nov 16, 2011 7:07:15 PM

Lou, I did not realize that this was your website/blog and that people on here had to agree to "your terms". If someone needs to step in, then so be it. There are some other smartasses besides myself that should walk out the door with me. It's not just the Bobs that are causing the issue in here.
I have been visiting this site for several years, and the quality of the posts by most of the people in general has really gone down hill. Well over half of what I read has to deal with how superior Ford is to every other manufacturer and everything else is just second rate. Maybe that is why "Bob" showed up. BTW, do you really think all of the Bobs are just one person?
I honestly think this site would be better off if they Sh## canned this blog and put all of the articles like this in the Bring It On forum or created another special forum area where users can comment. That way everyone would have to register, and I bet most of this BS would stop. Maybe this would also breathe some life into the dead forum that used to be so active and one of the best on the net. Just some food for though. One more thing, I still don't like Frank! haha

@Bob's Gourmet Chef - my comment was based on an attempt to "go in the right direction". I like this site and agree that things have gone downhill. Any bashing of any kind should be deleted regardless of who does it.
I know that all of the Bob's are not the same person. You can tell by the writing styles, sentence structure, spelling etc.
I'm willing to back off and behave if others are willing to do so. That is what I meant as "my terms".
I can be a smart ass just as well as the next guy, I can get into the back and forth one-upmanship just as well as the other guy.
It can be very entertaining, but it hurts the site.

As far as " Well over half of what I read has to deal with how superior Ford is to every other manufacturer and everything else is just second rate."
If you area Chevy fan, there hasn't been much from GMC to cheer about.
Is that Ford's fault?

@Red 4 X4 We much more down the diesel acceptance trail than the US. Modern diesels do not stink, rattle a little maybe, bit but that is about it for a Pickup diesel. Car diesels much much more refined.

@Lou, Every Pickup test here has a big section devoted to how well the vehicle goes off road(think of the above article being closer to the norm). So the new Colorado has to be very capable off road.
Mitsubishi Triton
http://www.caradvice.com.au/56503/mitsubishi-triton-road-test-and-review/

VW Amarok review
http://www.caradvice.com.au/105919/volkswagen-amarok-review/

Toyota Hilux review
http://www.caradvice.com.au/137084/2012-toyota-hilux-review/

Ford Ranger review
http://www.caradvice.com.au/138988/ford-ranger-review/

I have already professed to try and stay on topic as much as possible, and have not posted one hateful/distasteful comment since! Many people on here are guilty, including alot of the senior "originals" or whatever. I think many others should try the same approach. It has totally gotten out of hand, myself included in many instances (took a step back, tha is why I decided to try and stay on topic as much as possible.

They could not possible police the blogs enough when it is so easy to get another e-mail adress, or change your name. that shows cowardice IMHO, to change your name so no one will know who you are. Also, baiting someone the first post of an article shows no originality, and shows how weak one is. I see many of the self proclaimed "centrists" on here do this very same thing. No wonder when someone like myself comes to the site, it isn't long before I start posting the same kind of drivel.

I'll wait for the flaming now.....

@Bob, if you weren't always on here slinging crap at anybody pro Ford, or actually anybody non pro GM, you might be actually able to buy a new or newer GM. That is your goal, right? Have you even driven a newer truck, like a 2007 or newer Toyota or GM, 09 or newer Ford or Ram? I doubt it.

Robert Ryan: thanks for the pics. we here in the states now know what we are missing, well that is for people like me that like midsize vehicles more than full size (nothing against full size, just don;t use the capabilities enough).

I have stated that I don't care for the electronic gizmos in a car/truck, but I have to show my hypocritical side now.

I kinda like that front cam on the Raptor. That is pretty neat, you kind of make it where in many instances you can lack a spotter when offraoding and still be ok.

@ Lou

Fair enough. I give you credit for trying to be reasonable and fair most of the time. The same can't be said for some of the other posters here.
As far as GM fans having something to cheer about, ,I have to agree and disagree. While GM's powertrains are behind (except the DMAX) the competition, their overall body designs are actually more current than the competition from Ford. Does that make them a bad or inadequate truck? No, it does not. By the way most of the people here talk, you would believe that the answer is yes. The same can be said about the Ranger or Super Duty. They are old designs but are good trucks as well. I believe having a good overall vehicle is definitely something to cheer about, and the Silverado fits that bill. If you will look at most auto publications that do reviews on cars and trucks, they will say that the Silverado is still a competitive and good overall truck.

Bob, I knew it! I knew you had it in you. A decent post. Good joob.

@TRX4

I don't have to dream about owning a 2007 or newer vehicle. I have a 2011 in my garage and a 2010 sitting outside in the driveway. You can choose to believe it, or dismiss it. I really don't care. BTW, there are plenty of other crap slingers here besides myself!

bob: and yes, the Chevy is a good truck. In my area, most of the guys who use a truck to work, don't care about power/electronic features/fluff, buy basic GMC and chevy trucks. The run good, and provide good service to them.

In all honesty, a big part of the Fords running around in my area, are in fact, commuter vehicles that look like they haven't seen a day of work in their life, more so than the Chevy or Dodge trucks. King ranches coming out of Dow Chemical hauling "Mr. Office premier". But again, there are a few Fords being used as welding rigs, hydroblasting trucks (equipment hauling trucks anyway), etc. They are holding up well too.

We just got Dodge Ram Ambulances in our area too, seen one a few weeks ago. Nice looking rigs. Welder trucks in my area are mostly Dodges for some reason though, not sure why. I guess they like the Cummins engine.

@Red

My truck is a basic 2010 Silverado WT ext. cab 4x4. I would have preferred a loaded Z71, but really could not justify the extra $5,000 in MSRP.
The ambulances in my area are a mix of G-3500 Duramaxes and E=350 Powerstrokes. We don't have any Dodge ambulances here yet.

Cory, every Duramax diesel engine is assembled in the United States of America. Yes, some parts do come from overseas, but tell me again where is the new 6.7 liter Powerstroke built? OH YEAH thats right....in Mexico. Sure the trucks are built here, but I guess Ford doesn't much stock or faith in their American work-force to assemble engines. Another great move by Ford.

Best part about this is that they engineered this truck WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT BAILOUT.

With that said most new trucks are ugly, I'll keep my 2003
Ranger with its 200,000 miles on it, it's payed off.

It shouldn't matter where it is assembled as long as it is designed in U.S by a U.S auto company.

@RLS,

A Polaris Quad might be assembled in Japan, does that make Polaris not American?

Why does it matter where it's put together. The clothe you wear might have an American name, but it was stitched in a 3rd world country.

My Jordan sneakers are Made in China. Does that make Michael Jordan Chinese?

@RLS - Ford went to Mexico for the same reason everyone else does, to get away from paying unskilled labour 30 dollars per hour.
Why don't you read through the most popular truck in China thread. There is a discussion about NAFTA and foreign trade towards the end. (No sense rehashing it here).
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/11/most-popular-pickup-in-china-offers-strong-value.html#more

@RLS,

It's not faith, it's the darn UAW. Don't get it twisted.

Bob, in the area I live in, a large number of home builders use the type of truck you have. I think the reason is, 1) you can get a hell of a deal on a plain jane jobber from GMC here in our area, and 2) they are very simple to work on, therefore cheaper to operate.

The home builders I know personally, hae not had any truoble out of their trucks....not anywhere near like some of the guys on here profess GM owners do. One guys Chevy is a 2500 2001 or2002 model. The only trouble he had out of it is a cracked manifold. It is, however, a basic work truck. gets the job done though. His wife's truck is the nicer one, I was there the day he bought it while I was looking at a white GMC Z71 4x4, could have had that booger for 27K out the door. Leather, loaded with a 5.3L. The truck felt great, but decided to get a Wrangler instead since I have an old work truck.

Off topic already.....the Raptor sure is nice ... lol

@Frank

I think the point he is trying to make is that it is not supporting the American worker from a manufacturing standpoint. No doubt all the Big 3 are guilty of this. If only our lousy government could help bring manufacturing back to our country. Sadly, we have become mostly a service oriented country, and that is just wrong to me.

@Bob,

I agree, however, UAW is just screwing it up.

@ red4x4 - you sound like a butt hurt Jeep fan;)
kidding.
I've seen less GM trucks used by private contractors. The fleets have been mostly GM products as of late. Ford and Ram HD's are the most common work trucks for the smaller contractors. When it comes to 1/2 tons the ratio is closer. I'd have to give an edge to Ford and Ram though.
I know a lot of guys with Tundra's. Overall, there aren't that many. Titan's are very rare.
There is one big resourse company that has surprised me by their product mix. All of their crewcab HD's are Ford but all of the 1/2 tons are Tundra's and Tacoma's.
The majority of ambulances are Ford. There is one Chev ambulance in town. The rescue trucks are mostly Fords or small Freightliners etc.
Each brand has their own weak spots and quirks.

I'd like to see GMC come out with an extreme offroader of their own. I think the Colorado would be an ideal platform.

@ Frank

True. I hold the UAW at least partly responsible for the crash of the auto industry in 2009.

@Bob's Gourmet Chef - agreed.
A long time ago (a few years before the collapse) an expert had refered to the big 3 as retirement trusts masquerading as car companies.
It was inevitable that they would either:
1. collapse,
2. go offshore or
3. both.
That is what we have seen.
You can blame UAW but the auto industry was also to blame for assuming that they still could make big profits,and dictate to customers what they could buy.
Toyota became #1 with cars more because the 'dum'estics could not or would not change their practices.
We are down to 2 USA auto industries, and those 2 are making less and less stuff in NA.

nice pictures of the 2012 ford f-150 raptor off-road. great stuff

@Lou . We have Utes, Vans and Trucks from Europe, US, Japan and Australia, all have their strengths and weaknesses, derived from how they are used in their country of origin.

Lol @ Lou. Yeah, there have been times I missed my supercrew...mainly in the power dept when towing (although a modest regear...or trade in for a 2012 model could fix that..lol).

Yeah, GM should make the concept on the new Colorado platform.

I actually like the new Colorado platform, very promising I think. But, the Raptor continues to be a class of its own for the time being, and an amazing truck no doubt. If I could only justify spending that kind of dough on a toy.....

Ok...I'll jump on the good behavior bandwagon to.

@Bob/Bob's.
I know I sometimes call you out and give you crap about GM...But you must understand that it was only because I didn't like the way you commented towards Ford. I personally have nothing against GM...Ford is my perfered brand, but I have no real qualms with GM's products. You're most recent post's on this article have been an impressive step up. And I vow that as long as you continue to comment in a kinder more mature manner such as that, you and I will have no issues.

@Red_4x4
You and I have somewhat of a checkered past as well, I'll call truce and promise to only stay on topic from now on.

@Lou
Excellent job on somewhat pulling this all back together (so far)...Time will tell if they stay this way though.

Has anybody seen the Raptor pop start an 18 wheeler on the show Ice Road Truckers? There was snow on the road which made the Raptor look very impressive.

PickupTrucks.com needs to seriously consider shutting down the comments portion of these feature articles as the level of maturity of the many of the users (or abusers) is extremely lacking. This was not meant to be a forum for 'mine is better than yours' school yard antics.

@Greg.

I totally disagree, it is great entertainment, Lou, Michigan Bob, Oxi, ect. It is all in fun.

And Chevy is the Best!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i5tydyhKiE

I think there will not be any major design changes on Ford, Ram, or GM for the next couple of years because of the future fuel standards for all trucks that will be starting. Ford has not had a major redesign only changes in the front. The Ram design for the most part is the same as its major redesign in the early 90s. Chevy and GMC have had the same design since 2007 and the previous design was basically the same since 1999 except the front end. Trucks traditionally have not had as many redesigns as autos but this is not necessarily a bad thing. Most trucks are on the road a lot longer than cars and most truck buyers keep their trucks a lot longer. My guess is that you will not see any major design changes in any trucks until about 2015 or after and then it will be to down size the half tons to what is currently the global Ranger and the global Colorado and this will be to meet the new fuel standards. You can argue about Ford being the most redesigned truck over Chevy but basically they are the same exterior with new improved motors, transmissions, and interiors. There is nothing wrong with keeping the same exterior for a period of time with a few tweaks here and there. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Maybe with the exception of a few of you most truck buyers are interested in utility and value. That is why I drive a truck. If I wanted a vehicle strictly for looks I would drive a Mustang, Challenger, or Camaro or maybe even a Hyandai Genesis. I don't necessarily want to drive a ugly truck but the latest and greatest design does not interest me. I like to be able to use my truck to haul things and not worry if I am going to damage my 50 grand toy. If someone wants to buy a Raptor that is great and I am sure it is a good truck but if I want an expensive toy I will buy one of the newer muscle cars. I am not an offroader nor do I desire to be. For those of you who are that is great, that is your thing. I want my truck to be a truck whether it be a Ford, Ram, Chevy, GMC, Toyota, or Nissan. That is my opinion and I will not be critical of anyones opinions.

Nate.M: You betcha man. I want this site to succeed, it still is better than the rest out there. You wont see me slagging anyone anymore. I will skip right past the personal insults from now on.

Justin

K guys, I'm all in with the truce too. My main reason for getting so aggressive was the whole Bob/Bobs are from the tacoma site and just here causing trouble. I am more than guilty of the garbage post, and will refrain from doing so in the future. One thing I do know is that we are all passionate about our preferred brands. So if everyone would just skip the negative posting that just intends to inflame others on the articles it would be a much happier place to visit. A disagreement is perfectly normal, but the way it is stated is often the difference. For example, If a Toyota article is written. I will just either not read it or not post derogatory statements about it. Sound fair Oxi? Same for the Bob's. I won't bait you or talk smack about Chevy if you will stop baiting all us ford guys. Either skip the article, or just don't make inflammatory comments. I will do the same. This was a great site when I started visiting several years ago. I never posted a comment for the first few years, because most valid points had already been made by the time I read them.

How about a gentleman's agreement? The first to start stirring crap again, is admitting they are not capable of behaving as civil adults and I (and hopefully everyone else will just ignore it and hold ourselves to a higher standard.)

By the way if Mike Levine is still lingering around, PLEASE talk Ford into bringing back the Molten orange! I really am buying a raptor after the first of the year and want a new one, but I have loved that color since it's intro and hate to have to buy used to get it.

@ Bobbeh or michigan blob or numb nuts bob...
Jesus, or as they pronounce it down south, “Hey zoos”, is an illegal and can’t speak English…Drives a converted Yugo and calls it a Silverado…

i am in agreement with all the trash talking and trolling, and will try to do my part as well, as long as we can give our opinions we can help people make there own buying decisions
that is what they all come here for,

@Dan the man,

Agreed!

Trash talking and trolling is stupid. There is SO MUCH going on outside the US, regards Pickups, Vans and MDT, HDT trucks, you would need another website to discuss it fully.



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