First Drive: 2012 Tacoma TRD T/X Baja

Tacoma Baja 4

To begin: This is no Raptor fighter, but it does get Toyota heading in the right direction.  In fact, Toyota will be the first to tell you it doesn’t want the new Tacoma T/X Baja Series package to be confused as the automaker’s version of the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor; the goals were more modest, and the budget was a tad smaller. Still, there is substance here.

The guys at Toyota Racing Development have done a stellar job of creating a unique suspension package that gives the Tacoma vastly improved high-speed capability over Toyota’s previous king-of-the-hill TRD Off-Road Package.  In fact, the new Bilstein shocks — designed to better handle extreme desert environments — help improve all-around on-pavement performance and handling dynamics as well. But perhaps that shouldn’t surprise anyone, given that Toyota (specifically, its TRD group) has been a strong player in the off-road and performance-truck segments for more than a few decades.

We took a quick drive in the T/X Baja at last year’s Texas Auto Writers Association event where Toyota brought out the Baja Series and let us get behind the wheel. The short off-road course was not nearly fast and challenging enough to let the Baja spread its wings, so we made a point of complaining to Toyota often enough that the automaker finally threw us the keys to shut us up.

As a quick recap, the new suspension is a more extreme TRD package, giving the Tacoma better high-speed off-road capability. Much of this is accomplished with much bigger and better Bilstein shock absorbers. The front set has a monster 60-mm-thick shock body originally designed for heavy-duty motorhome use, but TRD tuned it to progressively absorb hard hits and rebound quickly to get the tire back on the ground with the least amount of impact.

Tacoma Baja 5
In addition to the big Bilstein shocks, the T/X Baja has a new set of stiff front springs that give the Tacoma almost 2 inches of added lift, giving the truck a balanced and more imposing look.

In back, the key improvements also center on the better Bilstein race shocks, with a 50-mm-shock body and horizontally mounted remote reservoir. Astute readers will notice that the remote reservoir was mounted vertically in the T/X Baja we drove in Texas, but we were told the new setup is less prone to damage by rock interference and other debris.  

The T/X Baja Series includes distinctive 16-inch beadlock-style wheels that look similar to the Rock Warrior package offered on the Tundra, with 265/70R16 BFGoodrich all-terrain tires. The final additions include a side-exit TRD cat-back exhaust and a set of slinging-mud graphics.

We spent the day in the T/X Baja romping around a local motorcycle/4x4 park. Considering the parts list isn’t very long, it’s surprising how well they work together to make the Tacoma a significantly better high-speed performer off-road. And we say that having liked how capable the existing TRD package was before.

We ran through several dry washes in the park valleys and found the front end to be exceptionally well set up to absorb some hefty ruts and berms. Several times, we found ourselves stiffening our bodies — maybe closing our eyes, too — in anticipation for a jarring hit to the front end. But it never happened.

Slicing and dicing through the dry riverbed, cutting through and over rock fields, then driving in and out of deep sand ruts — all at around 40 to 45 mph — the Baja was comfortable and responsive. The slightly taller stance seemed to help our visibility as we kept sawing the wheel to keep the BFGs from getting pulled into any of the big ruts (obviously from full-size trucks).

Tacoma Baja 10
When out of the dry wash and back onto more challenging trails that are popular with motorcycles and Jeeps, the Baja remained a strong player. At this point, we became exceptionally aware of how speed-sensitive this setup was. We found an old service road about 300 yards long with an almost endless series of “whoop-de-dos.” For those who ride motorcycles, you know how these ruts form over time with hard riding and how much fun they can be when attacked at the right speed. But for four-wheeled vehicles they are torture, throwing even a good suspension into a violent pogo-like rhythm.

Normally, we’d navigate this stretch in 1st gear and roll up and over each wave. Any faster than that, and we’d be launching off each face, grabbing some awkward air and pounding into the next. The whoops were spread out just far enough to mess with the rear tires as the front tires recover from the last big rut. Not pretty.

When we’ve tried to take this series of bumps in the past at higher speeds (above 20 mph) in the regular TRD Tacoma, the results were both jarring and unnerving. It was easy to tell we were running outside the suspension setup’s capabilities. However, when trying the same section in the Baja Series, the shocks made all the difference. At 20, 30 and 40 mph, the series of ruts and bumps felt like they were getting smoother. In high-range four-wheel drive, we found the best way to keep control of the Tacoma was to keep the revs high (around 3,000 or 4,000 rpm) in 2nd or 3rd gear (depending on speed) and aim for the tops of the whoops. In fact, after just a short amount of time, it was clear from the feel of the truck that it could do higher speeds as well, which we did.

We’ve taken both the 5.4- and 6.2-liter V-8 Raptors through this section, and there’s no hesitation in our mind that the Baja Series is not as gifted as the Raptor (nor should it be). But the difference between the two, given the Toyota is a much less modified and unique truck, is impressive. We’d guess the Baja Series is about 80 to 85 percent of the way to the Raptor — albeit much smaller, lighter and likely to cost less.

Tacoma Baja 6
In the slow-go low-range mode, all the usual strengths offered by the TRD setup — big tires, skid plating, traction control, locking differential, low range — are still strongly in play, with the extra bonus of a touch more wheel travel at each corner. TRD engineers, we’re told, worked long and hard to squeeze out every millimeter of full-droop and full-compression wheel travel as possible by tuning the front and rear springs and paying close attention to the progressive bump-stops. The added articulation and strong grip of our BFGs made short work of several steep off-camber hill climbs (by our calculations, about a 30-degree slope — almost a 70-percent grade) that made our seat belt tensioners cut into our shoulder as we climbed the rutted grade to the crest.

The T/X Baja does not make any changes to the standard 3.73:1 gear ratios that the TRD package gets or to the stock six-speed transmission. All engine features and characteristics are identical as well. Our Baja Series truck weighed about 100 pounds heavier than the TRD 4x4 Package that participated in our Midsize Shootout, tipping the scales at 4,420 pounds. For comparison purposes, we also tested a rear-wheel-drive PreRunner I-4 Tacoma (also a very capable and fun-to-drive midsize truck for about $10,000 less), and it weighed 3,780 pounds.

Over the course of our 400-mile drive route, we averaged just over 18 mpg (18.14 mpg to be exact), with a little less than that (17.67 mpg) when factoring in our 60-plus-mile off-road day, where our time was equally split between high and low range. Our particular preproduction model had the automatic transmission, but Toyota will offer a manual as it does on its Access and Double Cab models.

Because of our limited time with the Baja Series and unfortunate scheduling, we were not able to do any meaningful track testing; however, some rudimentary zero-to-60-mph runs put our test unit in the 8.5-second range, which is a touch slower than the TRD Tacoma we tested in the Midsize Shootout (8.17 seconds).  

Our only gripes with the Baja center on the TRD exhaust package, which does not feel impressive from our ears or from the driver’s seat. The note sounds more like an overworked hairdryer than the throaty or rumbly tone you’d expect from this kind of a vehicle. Still, if the point is to give the package small, significant separators from ordinary Tacomas, the exhaust tip does look good.

Tacoma Baja 7
To help improve the ride and feel of the suspension at higher speeds, some tuning was done to the rear spring-pack; it does a great job helping the ride at speed, but it takes away a small amount of carrying capacity. With a gross vehicle weight rating of 5,500 pounds, our vehicle has a real-world payload of around 800 pounds — and that’s without any passengers. Add the fact that the springs raise the front end a little, and if you add anything in the bed and drive at night, expect oncoming traffic to think your brights are turned on. Like the Raptor (at least the first ones), the Baja Series seems to be a vehicle that favors spending most of its life not having to carry any payload.

The obvious question here is what kind of premium price is Toyota going to pin on this new, more aggressive off-road model when a fully loaded TRD 4x4 Tacoma can list for $34,000. (Our Midsize Shootout competitor listed for $34,635.)

Toyota won’t announce pricing until closer to the Baja Series’ on-sale date near the end of June, but they’ve been consistent from the time they first showed the truck at the 2011 State Fair of Texas. The vehicle should cost right around $35,000, and when you consider what’s on this new package, that price could be a challenge to hit. Toyota representatives told us their research revealed the $35,000 mark was as much as buyers would want to pay for a truck like this. And we’re guessing it’s no accident that number is a healthy notch below the average transaction prices for the SVT Raptors.

For now, volumes will likely be in the hundreds rather than thousands, but from everything we’re hearing, this won’t be the last special off-road package (or truck?) coming from Toyota. As return-fire goes, this is a nice shot, but we want to see more.

Tacoma Baja 12

Tacoma Baja 8 II

Tacoma Baja 2

Comments

oxi is more experienced than anyone here when it comes to off-roading but he will say this Tacoma can compete against the larger and heavier Raptor and hold its own...

i believe oxi...

The Raptor is too big, wide and heavy and has horrible placement of the rear shocks!

We prefer the dimensions of a smaller but not too small pickup, hence the mid-sized to tackle all types of trails and obstacles and not risk body damage or suspension damage...

The Raptor is not setup like an expedition off-road vehicle thus would have to be modded despite its heavy pricetag!

oxi's Tacoma is still far below what a turn-key Raptor is in price even with oxi's mods!

I agree with the off-road king...

well i agree and disagree with alot of comments on here and for the same person lol

oxi is right about the old 4 cylinder toy's that are capable but later admits its all about gearing, which is absolutely right, you can put dual t-cases in a truck with a 100 hp 4 banger and out pull a 454 big block

as for the illegal stuff, they aren't really illegal, they are just mods, 1 ton springs are just a mod, you can't really have a payload of 1 ton as it will affect the drivetrain too severely on a small truck like a taco, Lou is right in that regard, but Oxi is right on what his intended use is, but he should stop crowing about he can haul a 1 ton payload

as to the leaf springs that are flat, some of the older ford have negative arched springs from the factory and they worked just fine!

I agree that these 2 trucks are 2 different classes, oxi is right in that the larger truck does have some disadvantages in its weight and size and low hanging differentials, but they make up for in brute force and sheer power, the lightness of a taco can either be good or bad depending on the situation.

really think this a apples vs oranges discussion here, price wise the edge goes to raptor imo, for a 6 grand more your getting way more truck out of your money, which could also tow and haul stuff that is way heavier than what the taco could, besides the raptor is just plain COOL!

We've made two corrections in the story that should have been caught on the first edit: first was the size of the front and rear shock bodies, misidentified as the rod width, and the second was that a 2WD Tacoma PreRunner was misidentified as a front-wheel drive pickup. Both changed.

Oxi is a total moron who creats alieses in order to make it look as though people actually beleive and buy into his narrow minded way of thinking. '

List of known Oxi alieses on this thread...

the off-road king.
olivia.

@Dean,

Just check out the mid-1980's Toyota pickups that were 1 ton's and had a payload rating of 2,655 lbs. these were identical pickups in terms of frame, wheelbase, body style to regular Toyota's...

Only thing that was changed were the leaf springs, shocks, whatever brake addition, still cannot figure that one out and had the 8" axle... that's it! Same identical pickup as a regular pickup of that time...

For off-roading, I have always chose a solid Toyota 4-cylinder mated with 4.10's, plenty of power if you know how to drive off-road and much less chance of breakage of drivetrain parts unlike heavier full-size pickups that need every ounce of torque to get through...

I recall driving to an off-road site and having to always wait for the full-size guys to fill their tanks... I also scouted trails ahead because the full-size pickups could not move through the trees and rocks as easily...

By the way Toyota factory springs are pretty flat from the factory and even with my new rear bumper and cap they went negative but still put thousands of miles on them including off-roading and not a problem...

yeah the old Toyotas in the 80's were impressive trucks for sure, the only 2 major complaints for them was the bodies would rust right off the frame and birfields (sp?) would always break on the front diffs. Definately a time and a place for a smaller truck, no arguements here.
Not too impressed with the current model Toyota, don't dislike it or like them really, they are just there lol

ultimate truck early bronco with 9inch rear, 44 front, 5.0L, dual t-cases, and a manual ! or I would settle with an old CJ jeep with a 5.0L and same set up as the bronco.

@Oxi - do you see 1 ton variations of your current truck?
NO.
I've seen dually Toyota's like what you describe, BUT they were rated as such by the factory.
Around that same time there wasn't much difference between a 1/2 ton, a 3/4 ton or 1 ton full sized truck as well.

Guys will pick on Toyota just because of the badge, but the same can be said for other brands.
Stop the egotistical arrogant patronizing posts and you will get hammered less.
I've said this before, you are not the only guy on this site that can modify a truck, or knows how to offroad.

@Dean - good post.

@Dean,

Current Toyota's have changed but I have not noticed much differance off-road as the ones built 25 years ago... They still impress people off-road even with the increased weight courtesy of government regulations...

I still prefer a Toyota for serious off-roading over any other make though my decision is partial due to Toyota being the only pickup make that can build a 4-cylinder pickup that can off-road with the best...

@Lou,

Get off your high horse geesh!

Toyota PROVED you can take a standard pickup back in the 1980's and increase its payload to 2,655 lbs. by simply changing leaf springs and shocks!

It has been done before, read the FACTS!

Toyota pickups have not changed much over the 25 years since the 1980's, same ladder-type frame, axle size increased from 8 inches to a stronger 8.4 inch, weaker torsion bar front replaced with stronger coil-sprung with more wheel travel, same 6-bolt lug pattern and wheel bearing size, I believe rear axle upgraded to floating axles, engines have more power from 2.4 liters to 2.7 liters, similar 5-speed manual transmission and 2-part T/case...

I have driven many Toyota pickups over 25 years, you have not! Your no expert on how to increase payload on one of these pickups. I have modded and fooled around with Toyota's for 25 years, have you?

Again, Toyota PROVED you can increase payload by simply changing leaf springs and shocks, they did this before back in the 1980's, learn and read about it!

@ oxi Just because Toyota increased payload doesn't mean you can LEGALLY. When your off road you can do what you like. You could pull all the leafs but one and put 5000 lbs in the back if you felt like it. But on road is a different scenario. Do you understand this? Yes, we get it, you have heavy duty springs for your truck. What will your insurance company say if you had an accident with your truck on public roads and it was overloaded?

@Dan, what a Raptor retails for varies from region to region. In Southern California (Riverside) where I bought mine, they don't sell them at invoice -- they sell them at MSRP Plus! In fact, the one I bought was marked $5000 over MSRP.

The amount of value retained by any vehicle is directly related to the demand for that vehicle. Ram trucks, for instance, don't return much at trading time -- at least not in my area. There's very little call for used Ram trucks.

The fact that my 5-year-old Tundra sold the very next day is a good indication as to why I got such a good return. Had I traded a Ram, they would not have been so generous.

You have to look at the actual costs in real world terms based on specific regions. What you stated MAY be true in your area. It doesn't hold up in mine.

@oxi
quote:

"Get off your high horse geesh!"
High horse?
No.
Its stock.

If I wanter greater LEGAL payload, I'll get a bigger one.
Kinda like going from a Pinto to a Clydesdale.

@Jordan L,

So everything on your truck is pure stock, nothing aletered?

Larger rims or tires?
Heck seat covers or aftermarket floor mats?
A winch bumper?
Increasing HP?
Changing gear ratios?
New suspension parts like UCA's or leaf springs?

Any of those and many more that any red-blooded "American" has fooled around with over the years is considered 'illegal' when it comes to insurance...

You like Lou from Canada are good little citizens that bow down to authority and do NOTHING to change the status quo i.e. boring!

When I see a souped up sports car or jacked up pickup, I typically give a thumbs up, you guys probably try and call the police because your boring and such good little citizens you absolutly hate to see someone alter thier ride for the better and demand everyone drive the same old boring stock vehicles like yourselves!

I get citizens giving me thumbs up and taking cell phone pics on the freeways all of the time of my pickup...

State troopers stare at my truck as it travels down the highway, they never bother bcause its all legit and proper bud!

Jealousy won't get you far in life!

@Lou,

If I go bigger, how can I get through the tight off-road situations?

And yes my pickup will have more weight fully loaded BUT a larger pickup will weigh what mine is fully loaded in STOCK form, so when I add the additional cargo weight, that bigger pickup weighs MUCH more than my fully loaded truck thus the need for additional ground clearance, suspension mods and drivetrain upgrades to make it reliable off-road under weight...

Bigger is NOT the solution!

The Tacoma is big but not as big as a full-size that hampers off-roadability and not small like a Jeep that cannot carry as much. The Tacoma is in the middle, very capable yet can still tackle the rough and tight off-road arena...

@oxi
"So everything on your truck is pure stock, nothing aletered?

Larger rims or tires?
Heck seat covers or aftermarket floor mats?
A winch bumper?
Increasing HP?
Changing gear ratios?
New suspension parts like UCA's or leaf springs?

Any of those and many more that any red-blooded "American" has fooled around with over the years is considered 'illegal' when it comes to insurance..."

Actually no. As long as modifications don't break state laws (i.e. removing smog equipment, lifting the truck beyond state limits, etc) they are not "illegal" when it comes to insurance. All the insurance companies really care about is the value of your vehicle. The insurance company will not pay for the replacement of aftermarket equipment/modifications if you haven't reported their existence (and paid a higher premium to cover their value).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiYdO5VK7IM&feature=g-vrec&context=G267b135RVAAAAAAAABw ohhhh looks like size doesn't matter off road taco's suck

@johnny doe,

44"+ tires, needed for a vehicle with that much weight is not very practical to drive around town with...

The heavier the truck, the more ground clearance it needs to overcome obstacles to counter the sinking effect...

That is why military tactical wheeled trucks have such large tires to make sure those axles sit higher up to counter the sinking off-road effect and improve approach/departure and breakover angles...

Where have you guys learned to off-road if you have in the first place?

Luke you are absolutely right.
Oxi learn something, you can modify a truck all you want, and its legal as long as you dont exceed government regulations ie the head lights are too high, the windows too tinted, the tires stick out too far past the fender etc.
Unless you have coverage for the modifications, insurance companies will not cover them, therefore if your truck gets totaled, they will give you the value of the truck as if it were stock.

Your truck is legal to drive up to the GVWR on the sticker. Over that you are illegal unless you have a cirt. from the DOT with paperwork on the modifications. If you are in an accident and you are overweight, a number of things will happen:
1. You are likely to be fined heavily by the highway patrol.
2. If the wreck was your fault, your insurance will refuse to cover the damage, leaving you holding the bag. You will have to pay out of pocket to repair the damage and you will likely be sued for negligence or reckless endangerment. If someone dies, you could be charged with vehicular manslaughter and will likely be sued for wrongful death.
3. If you are not at fault, the other guys insurance will refuse to pay because your truck exceeded legal weight limits, leaving you to pay for someone else's bad driving. You can still be sued by the other party if they are injured in the accident and can show that your overweight truck contributed to the accident or injury.

Its fine to build your truck up, heavier springs can help in certain areas, but dont think it makes you legal to load the truck down to its limits. My f150 will carry way more than 1800 lbs. i know, ive put about 2 tons of mulch in it for short distances, but i would have been up a creek if I had gotten pulled over.

@oxi, where do you off road at that a full-size is too wide? A Tacoma is 72.2 inches wide, a tunda is 79.9 inches wide track is 61 for the tacoma and 67.9 for the tundra with is only 10% wider, there are a variety of options to change the approach departure and break over angles on any truck if your talking modifying trucks.
You mention about how taking full size "tanks off road is stupid, but what where the areas you go to maintained by? Everywhere i have gone to off road, shoot or camp etc, they have signs saying to stay on marked roads, roads that is see logging trucks on, Forest service supper duties, BLM Power wagons, Boarder patrol and Air Force Suburbans by the missile fields, DHS Raptors in the desert, All these trails are used by "full size tanks" I will not even discus the width of the military equipment thats designed to go anywhere. If you add the proper protection (i.e. rock sliders on the Power Wagon) you can go any where. You apparently have seen Ford raptor or Power wagon trips through Moab stock, i have seen land rovers go through that also. I have seen lifted Toyotas and jeeps brake axels b/c they where not protected stranding the vehicle, I have made it through places in the suburban that stranded lighter jeeps that i had to pull out, that was with a stock 05 z71 suburban, i have a lot less problems in my raptor and can go much faster through the desert. Why are you spending zoo muck moving a Tacoma when you could get the previous gen Power Wagon with manual for less? you some how think that adding a bunch of weight to a compact truck is a great idea, its killing you payload, and as other users said its a liability, have you up graded you axels, axel seals , drive shaft, transmission, breaks steering to compensate for the extra loads place on your vehicle?
@ Doodo Did you not get the luxury pkg on your raptor? mine has it and i get tons of comments on how comfortable it is. And what do you mean that the raptor rides rougher than the tundra, test drivers (i.e Journalist) have compared it to a "marshmallow floating down the high way, i just have not experienced it being harsher than a tundra, have you seen the bed bounce that the 07s had on youtube. Resale is a function of supply and demand, if there is still a retarded demand for raptors then you will have good resale, i was just at the dealer with mine for oil change and was offered more than i paid for it with 35k on the clock. Additionally, I know people who paid twice what i paid for my raptor for their on California, i waited for the right deal. if you saved a few grand wouldn't flying out of state to Arizona on a cheap southwest or us air flight and driving the truck back to save a few grand be worth it?

@Carilloskis,

You obviously never went off-roading in a forest have you?

You obviously never went on tight trails with boulders have you?

Last trip I made off-roading last year, over 200 vehicles YET only a few full-size on the trails and those were stripped down and still had massive body damage from tight trails...

Today, most full-size are used to pull the Jeep/Toyota's to the off-road sites and remain at he camprground, the real off-roading is left for smaller vehicles...

And yes, 10% can be and usually is the differance to smacking the tree on the trail but the weight of full-size is brutal off-road...

If a Tacoma has similar suspension setup like a Raptor, the Tacoma would fare better off-road over a long desert race. Weight would eventually wear on the Raptor's suspension...

Aside from my suspension mods, I have tubed up my rear 8.4 inch axle for additional strength and to prevent axle wrap/flexing under full torque. That is the only mod I need to do right now, the rst of the Tacoma is fine to handle additional loads in full combat mode. It mostly rides empty during the year...

@Carilloskis,

By the way the 5th generation 4Runner debuted by running Moab STOCK!

Do not underestimate stock smaller vehicles with a capable driver behind the wheel...

I prefer a smaller 4-cylinder for my off-road vehicle because I know how to off-road and do not need to compensate lack of driving ability with a big truck and large V8!

That is why I focus on ground clearance, off-road angles and gearing/proper tires while a typical full-size guy that never really goes serious off-roading focuses on brute force to off-road with...that's all they have to make it...

I have seen full-size trucks struggle through deep and rutted terrain while smaller Toyota's and Jeeps just float through obstacles because of their lighter weight, etc...

I am planning a Colorado trip possibly next year as an expedition run into the mountains and a future Alaskan trip, I am going places with my pickup off-road, are you taking yours anywhere but the grocery store?

@Jordan L - looks like Oxi is running out of insults.
OMG
We are boring law abiding Canadians..........
Ouch
My feeling are hurt ;)

Oxi - when a person grows up they look at things more realistically. If a person wants an offroad weapon capable of going into remote areas, a truck whether it be compact, mid, or full sized is not a good choice.
Virtually every guy I know that spends any time in the back country owns a full sized truck and combinations of the following: dirt bike, quad, sled, side by side. I know guys that have all 4.
If you want to get into a debate over access to remote areas and we stick to anything with a motor, trucks are at the low end of the access scale. The cold hard truth is as follows:
1. dirt bikes
2. quads
3. side by sides
4. Jeeps and tiny SUV's
5. compact trucks
6. mid-sized trucks
7. full sized trucks
I've excluded sleds, and commercial vehicles from the list. The amount of modification also will change the pecking order so my list is based on stock machines.
You can get side by sides with similar cargo capacity to a truck.
I can use my truck as a base camp rather nicely.
Rant away.
I'm really amused.
Find a full sized truck to tow your Tacoma?

Carilloskis , I got the package that came with that production run - it's got the leather seats and the blacked-out interior and exterior.

I already threw away the factory window sticker months ago. I bought mine in January; it was made in 11/11 and it had a lot of stuff on it. (MSRP $44K+)

About the ride, all I can tell you is that when switching from my 2007 Tundra 4dr Limited 4X4 to my 2012 Raptor, and driving on the same roads and terrain, the Raptor is much stiffer than my Tundra was.

BTW, I had Rancho LT gas shocks on my Tundra and am thinking about doing the same for the Raptor. Much better control than stock and smoother ride, too.

It's not worth it for me to fly all over the country to buy a truck at the lowest price. Dealers have to make a fair profit to stay in business and I've known people who flew to other states to buy something at the lowest price. And when they needed service from a local dealer, that dealer put them dead last in the queue for service.

Why would any dealer who didn't make any money on you want to service your vehicle ahead of their own customers?

And with the retained value of my Tundra, this Raptor cost me less than $33K out of pocket, including everything. That's doable for most people.

Would I have paid over $40K for it? I doubt it, even though that big honkin' engine is the most appealing aspect of the Raptor.

If the Tundra came out with a 396 (6.45-liter) or a 427 (7-liter) I would have chosen it over the 380 of the Raptor. The Raptor is great fun but it is not the be-all, end-all truck for everyone.

It takes getting used to in ride, handling, noise, vibration and harshness. Especially so if the Raptor replaces the smooth, luxurious Tundra 5.7. A lot of difference there.

I guess you don't drive too much as you said on another thread "I have a 1996 Toyota Corolla that gets over 30mpg as my main daily driver..."

---

I get it now. oxi is a car guy. Not that there is anythign wrong with that. But a lot of car guys have a superiority complex and bash pickup trucks and think what they drive - cars are superior (Tacos are ok but that is the biggest they would go in a pickup truck.) They have no real use for pickup trucks other than for play and confuse them with toys. So they develop a superiority complex about trucks. "Look at that guy with an empty bed. So wasteful." they say. Only what they drive or what they would drive (a Tacoma) is acceptable. Everything else is too big or trash. This superiority complex oxi has is to conceal his feelings of inferiority. Everybody else is wrong and only he is right.

Definition by Adler

"We should not be astonished if in the cases where we see an inferiority [feeling] complex we find a superiority complex more or less hidden. On the other hand, if we inquire into a superiority complex and study its continuity, we can always find a more or less hidden inferiority [feeling] complex."[2]

"If a person is a show-off it is only because he feels inferior, because he does not feel strong enough to compete with others on the useful side of life. That is why he stays on the useless side. He is not in harmony with society. It seems to be a trait of human nature that when individuals - both children and adults - feel weak, they want to solve the problems of life in such a way as to obtain personal superiority without any admixture of social interest. A superiority complex is a second phase. It is a compensation for the inferiority [feeling] complex."[3]

"The superiority complex is one of the ways which a person with an inferiority complex may use as a method of escape from his difficulties. He assumes that he is superior when he is not, and this false success compensates him for the state of inferiority which he cannot bear. The normal person does not have a superiority complex, he does not even have a sense of superiority. He has the striving to be superior in the sense that we all have ambition to be successful; but so long as this striving is expressed in work it does not lead to false valuations, which are at the root of mental disease."[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex

@Oxi - make sure you let us know when you plan on going to Alaska.
I'm sure the Ministry of Transport and Commercial Safety Vehicle Inspection teams will be eager to meet you at the border.
Maybe you can head to Alaska via Manitoba or take the ferry.
Jordan L and I being boring friendly law abiding Canadians wouldn't want to inadvertently get ran over by your overweight truck with stock brakes.

You ever stop to think how your overweight wheezy little 4 banger will fare in the Colorado or Canadian Rocky Mountains?
You'll be down to 140 hp at 6,000 ft. and at 11,000 ft you will be down to around 107 hp.

107 hp trying to move 7,000 lb.

You pick out a full sized truck to tow your truck into the Rockies?

A turbo engine will fare better at elevation so I recommend a turbo diesel or an EB 3.5 F150.

@Lou,

Who is oxi???

@joe

@Lou,

Who is oxi???

oxi is someone that lives, eats, and sleeps toyota's...He needs to follow bob where ever he went...

oxi you realy didn't answer my question, what does the govenment or corperation that built the trails you ride on take on these trails, and yes i have gotten pinstripes on my vehicles, i had a black suburban and it got scracked up so i got my raptor in white it hides the scratches but the gray fenders show them prety well, it sounds like with all your mods your Taco weighs as much as my raptor, with more surface area on my tires my raptor does not sink as much as your taco (see boyancy its the same reason a light bolling ball sinks and an aircraft carrier floats) and yes in colorado, utah and arizona we have forrests with pine and aspnes etc. i have taken my raptor through the forest of the florida pan handel

@doodo,if it has the sony audio and 10 way power seats with memory it has the Lux pkg, it sounds like you dont like your shocks, I put ranchos on my z71 after snaping the oem ones in half but the ride was not as good as the raptor, where have you taken yours off road? If you want to get ridd of those worthless pos fox trippel bypass racing shocks then i will take them off your hands.

I like how the authors says that this truck shouldn't compared to the Raptor, then he and all the people commenting immediately compare it to the Raptor.

@ joe - just drive around Oshkosh Wisconsin until you find a Tacoma with steel welded to to most of it on small tires with a vanity plate "oxi" and ask him yourself.

Google OXI and Tacoma and you will see his truck=very humerous. The bupper looks like its the prow of a ship. and his off road photos look like stuff i have done with my suburban. His BOTT (bug out tactical truck) as he calls it is just silly, do you really need to have all your stuff all the time how much water do you keep ijn that thing, you live in WI you ever heard of a water pump or iodine tablets? I have emergency suppies at my house but if SHTF i would go home throw it in the raptor. You will have to go home to get your family anyways plus you dont have to worry about sombody stealing your Taco with all your stuff in it.
there has got to be some better priced bumpers out there.
Oxi i will even race my Raptor agains your Taco in the Darkar next year, (i have no idea how to enter the race or approcah sponsors) since your truck is the ultimate off road machine it should beat me in the ultimate off road race, or better yet I'll take my parents 99 suburban 1500 (its fair it has the same size wheels and tires as the pick i have seen of your taco) lol and still kick your tacos ass.

@ Lou Apparenty we are just jealous. I'm jealous of his truck even though it is less spacious, hauls and tows less, has less power, worse fuel economy, and will never last as long as my 93 Dodge diesel. I'm also jealous because it's nowhere near as capable off road as my Polaris Ranger. Why are you jealous Lou?

Carilloskis, I do not have the lux pkg if that is the differentiation because I only have 8-way power seats in the front, and no Sony stereo. Don't forget, mine was an early 11/11 production run and I bought it in Jan '12.

It's not that I don't like the shocks. The ride and handling take a lot of getting used to after having driven the Tundra for five years. Sometimes the palms of my hands get numb from the steering wheel vibration. That never happened with the Tundra.

I put Rancho LT gas shocks on the Tundra because I hitch-towed big (30-ft) travel trailers from Mississippi to California.

I lent these trailers to my relatives when they transferred from the Toyota NUMMI plant to the new Toyota plant in MS. The stock rear shocks on the Tundra both sprang oil leaks after hauling the first trailer back to CA. They were made in the US of A, not Japan.

Offroading? The road from the Hwy to my house is a rutted gravel county road, and once in a while I take the Raptor out into the desert west of Twentynine Palms to take my grandsons out on their dunebuggies and ATVs. That's all the off-roading I do.

I don't beat my trucks to death. I love the power but the ride of the Raptor takes a lot of getting used to after my Tundra.

@Jordan L - I'm jealous that I never thought of welding 1,500 lb of steel to the underbelly of my truck, and the fact that I have 4 more cylinders, and get better MPG. I'm jealous of the fact that I never thought of putting one ton springs on my truck. I'm also jealous of the fact that to go offroading I need to haul my toys in a full sized truck instead of driving my toy to the woods. I'm also jealous of the fact that I'm too tired to think of anything else to be jealous of.

@Lou,

Do I have to contact the authorities?
Nutjobs like you are creeps, perverts and stalkers...

I would be careful if I were you, I may start to investigate your behavior because I for one do not conduct searches on individuals and then publish all they can about another person without even bothering to tell them...

In fact I am going to write a letter to this site seeking your banishment, LEAVE personal information where it should be!

How old are you? You are acting like a child and if I have to get law enforcement to protect my family from personal threats and attacks and invasion of privacy, trust me i am leaning to that side...

I would be careful if I were you and others on this site!


@Jordan L,

"nowhere near as capable off road as my Polaris Ranger"

And I am sure you can just drive that down a freeway?

When it rains, what happens?

When temp go below zero, do you have enough heat?

How is the 4x8 piece of plywood going to be strapped down?

Going to take the family out in the town with it?

Top speed?

I doubt it meets minimal safety guidelines to be on road hence why not allowed...

Cup holder, radio, windshield, full doors, payload, shall I go on?


@Carilloskis,

I would be careful of your conduct, personal searches, are you a stalker, creep or pervert?

I do not google your personal stuff and publish, so why are you doing that to me? I want an explanation...

I do not carry gear on a daily basis, why are you such a moron? Does the military carry all of their gear on their tactical trucks all day/night 24/7? They carry when needed, geesh, where did you get an education from?

My truck is ready to receive extra cargo at anytime to move out in ALL weather conditions, etc...

And if you make an IGNORANT comment about my capable bumper, you have never been off-roading period!

My bumper has increased my approached angle and can carry the weight of a winch, pull the entire truck out of tight spots and protects the front from damage better than your plastic/chrome bumpers!

I can run over small saplings with no worries about damage up front to critical components and when I am over rocks and the weight of the vehicle rests on the bumper, it will not buckle like your plastic one!

Your an idiot, I get compliments about my front bumper all the time, it is a true off-road bumper that is stronger and more capable than any factory bumper out there!

Do you even know what off-roading is?

@Carilloskis,

"more surface area on my tires my raptor does not sink as much as your taco (see boyancy its the same reason a light bolling ball sinks and an aircraft carrier floats)"

Read this before making an IGNORANT comment about tire width:

http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html

Learn about off-roading before you speak!

@Carilloskis,

"The Turtle Expedition who has literally traveled around the world used a 255/85 R16 (33.3 x 10) for many thousands of miles on their full size Ford. Land Rover uses narrow 7.0 R16 XCL tires in most of their Camel Trophy events. The Rain Forest Challenge and The Trophy challenge have all been won by the aggressive Simex Trekker tire (35x11.00). Tom Sheppard often uses the 7-7.5 R16 Michelin XZL and XCL for many of his expeditions. All very narrow tires in relationship to their height…"

@oxi. I guess it takes a moron to no one.

"nowhere near as capable off road as my Polaris Ranger"

And I am sure you can just drive that down a freeway?
No you moron that's what my truck is for. It seats 4, it has cup holders, a stereo can be added if I wanted one, same with a cab. Unlike you I don't have to compromise. I've got a great truck and a great off road toy. Your concerns about the weather are funny. When the weather is poor we dress for it we don't hide in our house and wait for a nice day. I wonder if you would last 2 miles in an open vehicle on a lousy day. Why do need all those creature comforts when your off roaring? Just more stuff to break, more weight to drag around. You sound like a pansy to me. I'm kind of surprised that your still responding to posts. Usually when presented with too many facts against you, you just stop posting. Glutton for punishment I guess.

@ Lou Those are very good reasons to be jealous. Now I'm jealous of your reasons for being jealous

Oxi, a simple google search with OXI and Tacoma reavales a bunch of your posts on other forums including picture of your truck and liscens plates, you do the same search for my user name and you will find out more about me and my hobbies, havent you been told that what gets posted on the internet is forever, i would be a stalker if I joined all the forums that you are on and harased you on those. I agree with you on the front bumper. the one my curent truck it is mangled and bent i will be getting an after market one when i get my tax return, ADD has one that i like ;).
As for the tire argument from the same link that you posted above go to the bottom and you will see
"2.Greater Section width for flotation: A typical 33x12.5 all terrain tire will perform better on soft surfaces like deep mud, snow and sand than its metric equivalent (285/75 R16 or 33x11.2) as the weight of the vehicle is spread out over a larger surface area. The wider tread creates less stress to the surface tension of the strata of sand (as expressed in kN/m2) and the vehicle will not sink as easily. The smoother and wider a tire is, the better it will perform in sand, as the width creates flotation and the smoother tread displaces less sand under (horizontal) acceleration (shearing force). The same influences apply with snow and mud. If the snow and mud are deeper than 110% of the vehicles minimum ground clearance, than it is better to run a wide tire, aired down and have the vehicle “float” on the surface. "-http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html
It seems that web site has proved me right in the original argument that big trucks sink and toyotas and jeeps float through obsticals. You dont grasp the basic concepts of physics. Didnt i challenge you to a race in a stock 99 suburban which has 245/75 /r 16 that a narow tire.

I assumed that you had a signifigant other (family member) i dont know, i just assumed but a google search reveals alot about you it does the same for me it reveals that i play halo post on LWRCi forum, Raptor forumz, z71-tahoe suburban.com, and a book i bought for my militray geography major on amazon, and every post i made on this site including reposts.
A quick google image search to see what your truck looks like links to WI4x4 and survivalistboards.com when i scrolled down to page two to see any picks of your truck in action. if you dont want people to know about you on a publicly accessable site than dont post stuff, i was just curious about what your truck looked like (PS delete the post with the picks of your plate). I did not threaten you or your family in any way i have no idea your age, gender(assumed male) marital status etc, i have seen pictures of your truck and on those site you have a general area mentioned. I suggested that members google you, its not a secret you should not get mad about information that you have already published about your truck than talked about on this forum.

Saying that i dont off road is extremly ignorent, and i have gotten stuck and broke things, 05 suburban z71-both rear oem shocks snapped in half, snaped of running board in bolder fields, mangled skit plates, plenty of scraches, 10 SVT Raptor, destroyed a secondary jounce bumper (its a raptor only part, dealer had trouble figuring out what the part was (replaced with up dated design) bent trnasmission cross member, (additional skid plate on order), bent fron bumper (waiting for tax return).
No vehicle i have owned has had any chrome 01-06 z71 suburbans where all body colored steel bumpers, the two low speed impacts that my 05 was on caused 0 damage to my truck and (wasnt driving) 9k to one car , and the other one ran but his bumper was gone, these impacts where on the fron and rear one each, the raptor has an AL bumper, but its not as strong as i would like.

Oh and we do normaly cary gear in our vehicles everyday for emergency response, training etc. We dont drive around HMMWV, MRAPs and APCs for random duties we have more efficent pickups and sedans for those duties, this is a example of your ignorance, especially since most have armor kits on them, that weigh as much as the gear they where originaly designed to carry.

On my education I went to a school that recives all of its funding from the DoD (hint there are 3 to chose from)

@Jordan L,

Simple question, have you ever competed in a desert off-road race down in Mexico?

If you answer no, you do not know even half about off-roading!

Do a race in the stock classes in a longer race like a Baja 500 or 1,000 and then you can talk to me about off-roading, until then SHUT the f^&* up and watch your American Idol and Nascar!

@Jordan L,

Have you ever competed in a desert off-road race down in Mexico?

If no, then I suggest you enter in the stock classes in a longer race like the Baja 500 or Baja 1,000, then at least you can qualify to challenge me in off-roading...

Until then you are below me, a local child who thinks he knows how to off-road...

@Carilloskis,

If I was stupid and childish like some on here, I would post something about another person BUT the differance is I am not a pill-popping high frutcose corn syrup Mountain Dew addicted that plays video games all day child!

I will get permission before publishing personal stuff, I have respect, let me repeat respect. Hidden rules that normal citizens follow, you're probably the one that hits below the belt or waits for them to turn their back on you before you strike them, coward is the term!

Grow up and respect other members!

Those who do searches of other members all I can say is:

creeps...
child molesters...
rapists...
stalkers...
violent criminals...
insane...
children that talk like they are adults...
ignorance...
felons...
long criminal background...
hackers...
threats to our liberty and national security...
no-fly lists...
mentally challenged...
out of work to have the time...

Those are just a few of the thoughts that come to mind!

I said you where from WI im sure that that is not some big secret, you are the one that is childish, i occasionaly play halo in my free time, that is not personal info get mad at lou for saying what you plate said, all i said is that people should look at your truck, havent you posted links on here to that affect, maybe poeple are curious as to what your truck looks like. I often have agreed with you that being in an enclosed climate controlled cab is preferable to being on an ATV eating dust. I do off road have yet to race i would love to race my truck, i just dont know how to get sponsours etc. i have planned mods for my truck as well, but for the money the raptor was the chaepest way for me to go. The only thing i have aginst Tacos is the price, tx baja with manual will cost me only 2k less than what i paid for my raptor.
What is with the personal attack about the video games i don't play that often and if you read my post too the end you would have figured out what me job is. accusing me of being a drug adict is just ignorent, and defimation of caracter.
Another thing DO NOT QUESTION MY HONOR AGAIN. You are the coward who has not answered my direct questions and challenges to race, who is the Coward, OXI you are religating to cheap personal attacks, i did not attack your personality You accused me of being a lazy, addicted, coward without even being able to figure out what I do for a living. You posted what you do on one of the other pages on this site, but apperently I cannot repost that without being a stalker.

OXI I am an Officer In the Armed Forces of these United States, You don't know what hours I work, your slander and defimation of everyone on here has got to stop. Just because people make fun of your truck doesn't give you the right to resort to personal attacks just because i say your truck looks funny does not constitute a personal attack. the Raptor looks like it has some sort of developmental disorder there I said it, the raptor look silly and Im goign to put a silly aftermarket bumper on it. If people ask you an honest question then answer it, idk why you are so against full size trucks but you need to grow up and realize most people on here have one, and stop trying to start Sh$%.

@Carilloskis,

Me starting shyt? I post from personal experiance, the attackers or Toyota haters like yourself, Jordan L, Lou to name a few are the ones that google members so they can slander and launch personal attacks!

Look in the mirror!

Officer in the military is irrelevant just like my veteran status as a Marine is...



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