I can not see the current 3.0 litre diesel fitted to the Hilux lasting much longer. I might dig around and find out what they are doing in the diesel department. The current production cycle for small diesels are short due to the technological advances they are under going, much quicker than gas.

@XS29L
A real game changer for your full size 1/2 ton trucks would be to slide the 3.0 litre VM diesel into a Ram. I would love to see that. I'm not pro-Fiat, but it would really liven up your 1/2 ton truck market and offer you guys an opportunity to drive a little diesel around. I think the Euro-diesels would tow better than a hemi V8, they would outperform a hemi V8 off road.

@Brian
You'll have to wait a couple of years, when the global economy picks up, then fuel will be $150-$200 per barrel, I reckon you guys should prepare yourselves for $6.00 per plus gallon gas.

Then your big three will blame everyone but themselves because they misread the market again. As is shown in Europe, price of energy versus personal income dictates vehicles types.

@Jeff S
Your trucks work, just they could be better. The end result is a win for the customer.

@Vulpine-A quarter ton mini pickup is very doable. Datsun's first pickup in the US in 1959 was a quarter ton. Before Datsun there were the Crosley cars and Crosley had a mini pickup. If you google Powell Crosley you will see some of these early Crosleys and read the history of a fascinating man who was like a Steve Jobs of his era. With all the compact crossover and auto platforms anyone of the manufacturers could easily produce one. Share components and assemble on the same product lines as the cars or crossovers would not require as much volume to make a profit. This vehicle could be used as a commuter and for the weekend for items too big and akward to fit in a car or a small crossover. This vehicle would not be able to be used for towing but there are enough full size and midsize trucks on the market that are designed for towing. If you were to make this truck it would be better to limit the options and have 4 basic colors with one interior color to keep the costs down and give this a more affordable price. Just some ideas but Yes this can be done and with fairly low development costs. It will be interesting to see if Toyota takes the A-Bat and makes a Scion truck similiar to a quarter ton truck.

@Vulpine, @Big Al from Oz, @Robert Ryan. and @Brian

These are the links on Powell Crosley and the Crosley car. Crosley had the first affordable radio. He was a fascinating person and a inventor as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_Crosley

oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Crosley

: Big Al from Oz--I didn't mean that the NA trucks were not capable just not as capable. Several years ago I had a Mitsubishi Mighty Max which I broke the rear leaf springs hauling too heavy a load. A mechanic put in new heavy duty leaf springs and instead of the 5 on each side he put in 8. He also put in heavy duty truck shocks front and back and he raised the front. Many people would mistake my Max for a 4 wheel drive and it rode a little rough with an empty bed but it would easily haul a ton. That truck would literally haul anything I put in it and I drove it for over 14 years. It was a single cab with an eight foot long bed.

My point about the suspensions are that the heavy duty suspensions do not usually give a smooth ride as most Americans are use to but they are more capable haulers. I used my Max to haul patio pavers and I could about reach the top of the bed with pavers and it would haul them no problem even with a 2.0 4 cylinder with 4 on the floor. If you modify any American truck or Japanese truck you can make a more than capable hauler. Toyota use to make a 1 ton compact truck with a long bed about 20 years ago or more. Those were tough trucks.

Big Al from Oz--I didn't mean that the NA trucks were not capable just not as capable. Several years ago I had a Mitsubishi Mighty Max which I broke the rear leaf springs hauling too heavy a load. A mechanic put in new heavy duty leaf springs and instead of the 5 on each side he put in 8. He also put in heavy duty truck shocks front and back and he raised the front. Many people would mistake my Max for a 4 wheel drive and it rode a little rough with an empty bed but it would easily haul a ton. That truck would literally haul anything I put in it and I drove it for over 14 years. It was a single cab with an eight foot long bed.

My point about the suspensions are that the heavy duty suspensions do not usually give a smooth ride as most Americans are accustomed to but they are more capable haulers. I used my Max to haul patio pavers and I could about reach the top of the bed with pavers and it would haul them no problem even with a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder with 4 on the floor. If you modify any American truck or Japanese truck you can make a more than capable hauler. Toyota use to make a 1 ton compact truck with a long bed about 20 years ago or more. Those were tough trucks.

@Jeff S
Our pickups ride quality is harsher but not as great as you would think, like you said the spring and shock absorbers rates are different.

They have improved markedly since the mid-80s. The vehicle to bring about this change was the Nissan Navara. I forget which industrial award they won but the Navara won it for its suspension tuning versus payload. The award had nothing to do with automotive vehicles. If I remember the Navara had a 1.4 tonne payload.

Metal deflection is linear normally, ie have a length of metal X units in length and it deflection will be linear as load is increased, until it fails. Repeated cycles set areas of stress until the spring fails also. You can probalbly double your payload once with no ill effects, but steel still has a "memory" and eventually it breaks. The "memory" in spring steel is much less than mild steel.

So place 1kg on a 1m length of steel (metal) it deflects 1cm, place 2kg on that piece of steel it will deflect 2cm.

You can temper steel to obtain progressive deflection.

How did the Rambo Spambo types get involved in a Toyota thread?
Even the oxi trolls have crawled out of the primeval ooze to spew their mutated DNA upon our shores.

I'd like to see the Hilux replace the Tacoma and this is why:
Exerpt " The Hilux is more of a workhorse truck around the world, and as a result it offers a more robust frame and chassis than the U.S.-sold Tacoma".
One way to justify the expense of a small truck in relation to full sized 1/2 tons is to give it some sort of edge.
A super tough frame, suspension, and drive train is one way to gain that edge. Another edge would be to give it something the 1/2 tons don't have. That would be superior MPG or something they don't have like a diesel option.
I can see Fiat joining the fray with something from their European parts catalogue.

@Loiu--Good to hear from you I was wondering when you would joint the conversation. Rambo spambo and Oxi team is here as well but I am not sure about Oxi unless he has changed his spam name.

@JeffS - I think oxi has gone on to "smaller and more compact" things since he has never liked "bigger and better". LOL

I'd like to see more competition in the small truck market. I fear that everyone is waiting to see how the Colorado will sell once it shows up. I have my doubts about that truck. Many do not view the old Colorado with much fondness. That baggage may hurt the new Colorado. The buy USA types may be put off by the fact that it essentially is a Brazilian designed truck built in Thailand. But then again, the quality of many posts on this site would indicate that as long as it has a USA flag on it, they'd be clueless or blind to the rest of the story.
I'd rather see the Hilux test the NA waters as it has a stronger reputation. Even keeping the Hilux name would be a good idea, again because of its reputation.
VW has a good reputation with its diesels so I think an oil buring Amarok would probably do okay. A gasser probably wouldn't do well since VW has had a lot of issues with the electronics on their gas powered cars.
Someone needs to sprout some gonads and just go for it. Europe is still a very precarious financial playground. Asia and South East Asia are much more stable markets, and the NA market appears to be regaining ground as well. Car companies need to move towards those Asian and NA markets to survive the mess in Europe. The "Globals" are already thriving in those markets, they could use Mexico and Central America as a back door into North America.
The only thing stopping the misnamed domestics is the fear of hurting their golden goose(geese) which are full sized 1/2 ton trucks. If we see a huge price increase in fuel prices, those golden geese will turn into sitting ducks.

@Lou,
I cannot understand why the "domestics: using the Hilux as an example of a very accepted Global truck, build something like a F250/F350 Cab Chassis that can be used for a variety of purposes. I would not be restricted to being a Pickups
Taking the IVECO Daily as a example, a similar let us say 5 litre diesel F250/F350 or Siverado 2500/3500 could become: a
Small Bus
http://www.truck1.eu/img/Bus_Van_Iveco_Daily_50C15-ful-348_6124618913318.jpg

Van
http://www.ivecospares.com.au/images/uploads/iveco_daily_35%20s13_2005%20side.jpg

Armoured Personnel Carrier
http://defense-update.com/images_large3/Iveco_LMV.jpg

Motorhome
http://www.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk/news/pix/077_ConcordeCharisma890M.jpg

4 X4 Expedition Vehicle
http://www.unicat.net/img/EX37-IvecoDaily4x4.a01-560.jpg

Crane Truck
http://www.suvads.com.au/user/photo/10000-15000/10577/1.jpg

Tow Truck
http://www.imcdb.org/i364343.jpg

@jake,

oxi was caught in a mudslide
Eaten by a lion
Got run over by a crappy purple Scion
Help me, help me, I'm no good at goodbyes

oxi was ran over by a crappy purple Scion? LOL!!!!!!!! I wondered where oxi went. LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSBFehvLJDc

PS oxi, where you at???????

Here is an interesting article. It seems BMW are working with Toyota to provide small diesels. And the Tundra might get some version of a Hino diesel.

A small BMW diesel in a Hilux would work quite well.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/07/toyota-to-focus-on-turbocharging-diesel-may-come-to-us.html

More Guts!

More Glory!

More ass kicking Ram!

Posted by: LOU TRUE BELIEVER | Aug 1, 2012 12:14:04 AM

Sorry, got carried away that article is 5 Years old.

Here is an article on BMW-Toyota small diesels. Toyota will get BMW diesels in exchange for Toyota electric vehicle technology.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bmw-and-toyota-to-broaden-cooperation-agreement-2012-06-29

@not really a hemi made in mexico owned by italians -
ass kicking Ram?????????????????????

All of your posts are: ass who ass kisses Ram

@Big Al from Oz - do worry about getting carried away. When you or I do it it pales in comparison to the aforementioned idiot.

I do agree with Robert Ryan on NA producing a global HD with a euro (german) 4-5 litre diesel.

@Lou
Don't let him get to you.

@Lou=I agree with you basically. I would welcome the Hilux and I really just as soon keep the name its just that a lot of buyers only know the Tacoma name. A lot of people are like sheep and don't go beyond a name or what the vehicle looks like. I hope Colorado has some sort of success because if it does the more likely we are to see a Hilux and possibly Mazda could reintroduce a pickup to NA. Also if the Colorado is good then it can be used as a basis for future GM fullsized trucks just as possibly Ford might use the Global Ranger for future F150s. At least stir the pot from what we have now which is a noncompetitive midsize market.

I did not particularily care for the current Colorado especially when compared to the last S-10, but after I have had my Isuzu I have a more favorable viewpoint but I think there is lots of room for improvement and I hope this new Colorado addresses most of the improvements. I would like to see a nicer grill and some more work on the dash but the rest of the truck does not look bad. We will see when it comes out and how reliable it is. Lets hope it gives Toyota a push and widen the choice for smaller trucks. The Hilux could possiblly tempt me into buying one if if is not too changed. On the other hand a better Colorado could do the job. Choice is good.

One thing that I did not think about was the fact that Mazda and Ford "global" compacts share the same platform. Maybe Mazda needs to re-enter the small truck market with the BT 50. They'd have go with different bodywork ie. like the Ranger because I do not think the looks of the BT-50 would sell here.

@George you couldn't be more wrong about the NEW trucks not being safe. Here is just one example... http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/26/new-ford-ranger-becomes-first-pickup-to-earn-five-star-euro-ncap/

For the new 2013 Ram 1500 we have added seat mounted side pelvic-thorax airbags. We have also enhanced stability control including trailer sway control, traction control, and hill start assist. Ram offers more than 45 safety and security features. The highlights include: 6 airbags, collapsible steering column, seat belt pre-tensioners, and integrated knee blockers. I can tell you the new 2013 Ram 1500 will have best-in-class fuel economy.

@Jeff S - The Colorado will cannibalize Silverado sales so GM will sabotage it any way they can. Probably with poor build quality and dumping them on the fleet market. The current Colorado could've been a great truck, but that wouldn't have been good for GM.

Why build them in the 1st place? This is GM we're talking about. They want to fill every niche to show they can, regardless of profit or loss. That's why the Corvette and Volt exist.

GM's full-size line of trucks and SUVs subsidize all other GMs with little or no profit so every full-size sale is vital.

The Colorado's looks may be superficial, but it's just one more thing directing buyers to the rows and rows of pretty Silverados and Sierras in every model and color combo for a little more money.

The Colorado won't be here until a year after the 2014 Silverados/Sierras hit showrooms. Guess why.

@Big Al from Oz, Robert Ryan - Diesels are no longer a viable option in North America for too many reasons, but mostly we have a variety of modern, powerful, fuel efficient and cost effective gasoline engines to choose from. You simply can't beat them with diesels. In the past perhaps, but not today.

Diesels have advantages in certain areas, it's true, but so do hybrids. Neither are worth the added problems or upfront investment. Never mind the headaches down the road. If expensive diesels are forced on you, then I don't know what to tell you. Make the best of it, I guess.

I need another diesel in my life like I need another hole in my head. All my medium-dutys will be gasoline from now on. Ask me why.

I know North Americans like to claim they would buy a diesel mid-size or half ton pickup, but they either haven't done all the math or full of S. These are likely the same people that claim they would absolutely buy a manual trans, diesel wagon, but never actually get around to it.

@DenverMike--You are probably right. Since the new Colorado is already available in Asia and Australia it should not take them till the 2014 to have it in NA. I still hope that it is competitive because there are few midsize competitiors left and as long as there is no real competition Toyota will not update the Tacoma. I do agree with some of the prior comments about the Silverado going a little too cheap. I was out shopping and a new Silverado was parked by me. It was a dually with the top of the line package with the cfhrome ends on the front bumper. I tapped one of those ends with my hands and discovered it was plastic. Then I saw a new GMC Sierra with a chrome bumper and the entire bumper was metal even the ends. At least give the high trim Silverado an entire metal chrome bumper.

I think Lou is right that the economy will have to improve and the oil will have to hit $150 a barrell and higher with gas at $6 a gallon for things to change in the truck market. When that happens the Big 3 will blame everyone and they will be scrambling to make a smaller efficient truck. Buy yes Denver Mike until there is more price difference between a smalller truck and a larger truck and there is more of a difference in mpgs most customers will opt for the large trucks and the Big 3 will not want to cut into the sales of the larger trucks which have a higher markup and are more profitable than anything they make. We will see what happens and see if the Koreans and Chinese decide to assemble a smaller truck in NA. Big trucks will eventually be put on a diet anyway to conform to the new fuel standards which might make midsize trucks a thing of the past but could bring some compact trucks back. It will be interesting to see what happens but it is for sure that things will change for the piichups of the future.

@DenverMike As long as Petrol(gas) prices remain low and you are not really towing anything heavy, then diesel in the current situation would make sense.

Wow people these HEMI trolls are gettting annoying as are the OXI trolls. As always the only poeple with constructive thougts are Jeff S, Lou, Big Al, and Denver Mike.
My thoughts on the trucks in the market, i think the big thing is engin size avalibe, many of us get engines that are too big for what we are doing my Raptor is the right size for me, but i never tow, and really dont need a 5.4l. if i where to buy a crew 4x4 i would like to get the elocker with the 3.7, but ford doesnt let you. You have to jump to the 5.0 or ecoboost. if you look at the weight of the global trucks its similar to our trucks, they just have smller displacement enginges. there is no need to drag race a pickup with or without a trailer.
Or look at the big HDs power changes over the years.

2012 f250 supper crew lariat 4x4
Base engine size: 6.2 L
Cam type: Single overhead cam (SOHC)
Cylinders: V8
Valves: 16
Valve timing: Variable
Torque: 405 ft-lbs. @ 4500 rpm
Horsepower: 385 hp @ 5500 rpm
Base engine type: flex-fuel (FFV)
Wheel base: 156.2 in.
Maximum towing capacity: 14000 lbs.**
Maximum payload: 2690 lbs.**
Gross weight: 9600 lbs.
** When adequately equipped, which may require engine and/or other drivetrain upgrades.

99 f250 supper duty lariat 4x4
Base engine type: gas 5.4L
Horsepower: 235 hp @ 4250 rpm
Torque: 335 ft-lbs. @ 3000 rpm
Maximum towing capacity: 10000 lbs.
Maximum payload: 2865.0 lbs.
Length: 241.4 in.
Gross weight: 8800 lbs.
Wheel base: 156.2 in.

2010 f250 crew lariat 4x4
Base engine size: 5.4 L
Cam type: Single overhead cam (SOHC)
Cylinders: V8
Valves: 24
Valve timing: Variable
Torque: 365 ft-lbs. @ 3750 rpm
Horsepower: 300 hp @ 5000 rpm
Turning circle: 51.8 ft.
Base engine type: gas
Maximum towing capacity: 12500 lbs.**
Maximum payload: 2920 lbs.**
Gross weight: 10000 lbs.
Curb weight: 6609 lbs.

the new supper duty is more efficeint than the last one but also more power full what would have happened if ford kept the same power tratings and focused on fuel economy instead of brining the power up. I know that their was a wieght gain, but the HP increase more than compinsates for that. why has acceleration under load become so important, if a 99 truck can pull the load fine why do we need a bigger motor to pull that same load 12 years latter? they could put smaller motors in all our vehicles and sitll let us pick the trim level and other mechanical feature. we don't need a masive 6.7l monster that has 800ft lbs, to drag race up a 12% grade but we may need the interior volume/bed space, and payload compacity with a smaller motor.

the Small TDIs from VW are nice, but many people still dont understand them, addtionaly they dont sell as well as hybrids. i remember when my mom bought her jetta tdi manual in 04 when priuses where popular,(she wanted something to drive other than the suburban) the Jetta got better real world MPG but the prious sold for a premium and we where not even allowed to test drive one. the jetta felt very fun and sporty (though the subburban spanked it in acceleration) but people still bought the boring to drive priuses for 10k more, most people dont understand the benifits to a deisel enginge and most current HD owners (unless they tow/haul alot) dont understand the economics of current diesil engine options. as such i dont think we will ever get to see an affordable deisel truck in this country.

@Jeff S and Denvermike
I do agree the NA pickup market will not change if gas prices remain at the levels they are. But when the increases does occur your market will change. You will still see HDs etc, but mid-size trucks will become prevalant. What is the most significant factor is cost relative to income.

@Denvermike
Gas engines do have a place. But gas engine efficiency improvements will hit a wall soon. Diesels still can improve markedly.

You need to understand the limitation of gasoline engines versus diesels. Diesels can operate at much higher cylinder pressures than they are currently achieving (almost limitless pressures) material technology is the biggest impost to diesel development. That's why some of the Euro pretige diesels obtain huge power results in comparison to "normal" diesels. Then commercial diesels like you would get in a pickup is one rung further down the ladder, but the gap has narrowed on these engines recently.

Diesel also contains a significant amount of energy in comparison to gas, between 25-30% more. This is also extra weight you need to carry in a gasoline vehicle.

@FIAT IL3 2 Stroke, aka Hemi v8
Give it up, what you just mentioned in your last thread has been in our trucks for some time. Maybe the Italian realised this and are now offering safer trucks in the Fiat line up.

Our base model Mazda (and our other utes) have all the aids and controls you have mentioned. Ram is behind the 8 ball. Wy do you think our lowest safety rated pickup is 4 Stars and its the Hilux.

@Denvermike
I should add the reason behind the differences in gasoline and diesel (compression ignition engines) in general.

Gas (spark ignition) can provide the power and torque ie top fueler. But to gain this out of a gas engine eventually more fuel and oxygen is required to gain that increase as the fuels ability to prevent preignition occurs (compression limit will be reached). Mazda is working on 14:1 compression for some naturally aspirated engines. This will give significant power gains with marginal torque gains. Not the best option as torque is what moves a vehicle. Direct injection into gas engines in the past few years has helped.

Diesels on the other hand rely on compression and the timing of the fuels injection into the combustion chamber. You don't need to increase the fuel amount to gain power, just increase compression.

Aircraft turbine engines where originally gasoline powered. Due to the extra fuel needed, 25-30% more (extra weight) and the limit on compression in the combustor, AVTUR (kero) became the fuel of choice, its cetane rating and properties is similar to diesel. I do know the engines I currently work on have a 24:1 compression ratio. But these were designed in the 60s-70s. Now they are running much higher pressures, but material technologies allowed this to occur.

Like I have stated previously look at the aviation industry to see where the auto industry is heading.

@Carilloskis, According to Four Wheeler’s technical editor, Sean Holman, the fight between the two trucks was incredibly close but the Power Wagon’s superior trail performance in multiple off-road scenarios helped give it the win. The heavier Power Wagon also beat the Raptor in 0-to-60 mph performance and in the quarter-mile. Hardware features, like an integrated winch, front diff locker and powerful 5.7-liter Hemi engine solidified the Power Wagon’s position.
The staff of Four Wheeler magazine, photo credit: Ken Brubaker
“The new Power Wagon is quite nearly the best of all worlds,” said Four Wheeler Editor Douglas McColloch. “Its tall stance and body-on-frame architecture don’t get in the way of delivering a pleasant and relatively quiet highway ride. Its work-truck ethic is belied by its eight-lug axles and 10,000-pound tow rating. And once off the pavement, deep in the dirt, the Power Wagon can simply go places, and do things, that no other fullsize truck on the planet can. Locking differentials, a disconnecting front swaybar, and a 12,000-pound winch---delivered straight from the factory---will do that for you. All in all, the Power Wagon is a very worthy winner of our Pickup Truck of the Year competition.”

The only Garage special is that frame cracking Ford. LOL

I guess their is no substitute for the original 4x4 truck.

THE LEGENDARY POWER WAGON SINCE 1946.

I should stated that diesel is LESS reliant on an increase in fuel to for power gain.

@Big Al from Oz--Fuel pricaaes will contiinue to go up because what NA does not use Asia, China, and India will use as their economies grow China is experiencingf an economic slow down as a lot of Asia is but this will not last. The more Chinese and Asians join the middle class the more cars, trucks, appliances, and electronic devices they will buy and thus the more energy they will consume.; As the new fuel standards for trucks are implemented in 2015 then the trucks will become more the size of your trucks. The real challenge will be to keep the bed size and interior size the same while shrinking outside dimenstions and weight which will allow smaller engines and higher mpgs. I would find it hard to believe if all the manufacturers were not working on this now. Challenging but doable. Full size half tons will become midsize. Many designers are now using 3D imaging and printing technology to design new products. Ducati motorcycles is currently using 3D technology for designing a new generation of motorcycle and Jay Leno is using 3D to make images of parts on some of his car collection to have custom parts made. The new technology will further change our trucks and everything we use. Even Toro Lawn equipment and Boeing aircraft are using this technology.

@Jeff S
You can put traybacks on the trucks and they are a lot larger than your style side trucks. The traybacks are about the same size that you guys put on your 1/2 ton pickups.

We do also have cab over trucks that have a 10' tray on the backs with little diesels. These are used by small business people. Their loads capacity is higher than our pickups. But they no wheres as comfortable. And they are about the same length or a little shorter than our mid-size trucks.

Here is a little Kia truck that can carry about 4 500lbs. It has a small naturally aspirated diesel. Not very powerful but they can still hit 90mph.

It is shorter than our little pickups.

http://www.carshowroom.com.au/newcars/2012/KIA/K2900/specifications/

@HEMI V8
This beach was literally at my doorstep, I lived there for 14years. It is the largest coastal sand dune area in the southern hemishpere. Great place, I used to fish alot.

Also I wouldn't drop my pressure down to 12psi as this greatly increases the chance of spinning your tire in the rim, only do that when bogged.

15-18psi will give you a large enough footprint and allow your sidewall to assist.

Also use a gear lower than normal as this allows your engine to run cooler.

http://wn.com/Stockton_Beach_Hooning#/videos

@Big Bad Al From Oz, Also I wouldn't drop my pressure down to 12psi as this greatly increases the chance of spinning your tire in the rim, only do that when bogged.

15-18psi will give you a large enough footprint and allow your sidewall to assist.

Very true. I guess I have been lucky with my BFG's with 3ply
side wall. I have even been as low as 10 psi with the trailer
that weighs 8,000lbs.

Can I get your opinion on why so many diesels get stuck in the sand? Is it their tires with the very hard compound for hauling? Or the torque down low with the diesel engine?

@Big Bad Al from Oz, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9P4ZpywMl8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycwgDEnlyg8

I love the Dunes!! Ride my 450 quads. Drive truck and trailer
into the whoops to get a good camp spot.

I love cranking my radio and 4x4ing with a cold one in my truck at Pismo beach dunes and Imperial dunes AKA Glamis.

@HEMI V8
Come visit Australia. You'll very surprised at what we have to offer. No, I don't work for the Tourism Industry. Just tone down that Ram stuff, liking a brand and "marrying" a brand are two different issues. And lay off of Lou, its not funny anymore, maybe once in a while.

I used to do alot of fishing, beach and land based game fishing off the rocks for palegics. In Australia in some places you can catch marlin of the rocks (but its rare).

We don't have that problem here with diesels in the sand. Older diesels from the 80s and early 90s didn't have the power like they do now. Also our diesels are lighter trucks. See how the diesel Grand Cherokee performs.

A friend of mine had an 80 Series Landcruiser with a diesel and it never got stuck.

Type in Stockton sand dunes on google and select images. We have a lot of buggies, quads, bikes etc in the dunes.

http://www.ridiculouslyextraordinary.com/stockton-sand-dunes/

@Big Al Form oz, I would love to go to Australia. Don't have the money$$$. Cool link Al. Enjoyed it.
We have 80,000 $ plus sand rails here. If I won the lotto I would
buy one.
So the 6L plus diesel trucks here get stuck in the sand because of the weight of the rig?
What is wrong with being passionate about my Dodge Ram?
It has been a great truck. Powerful and dependable.

@ Al forgot the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DesgK_EG2vo

@Hemi V8
Like any form of off roading tyres play a big role. Light truck tyres are not designed for traction in areas of low friction ie mud/sand/ice.

Footprint area and tread pattern is the name of the game in the sand and speed so you can get up on a "plane" like a boat.

Have a look at the huge Paris to Dakar trucks that race at over 160kph off road. Plus they also carry the equipment for their respective teams in some cases.

Plus what we are discussing is off the theme of this discussion.

Paris to Dakar Kamov stuck on top of a dune.

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Igor+Devyatkin

I don't know if this should be on this site but our old foe, the Russians can build fast off road trucks.

Fantastic footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fvzXNwSjQA

@Big Al, Wow that truck is a monster. Have you ever driven a gas 4x4 in the soft sand? Have you driven a diesel 4x4 soft sand? which do you prefer? I have heard diesel is not great for mud.

Whats wrong with being passionate about my Dodge Ram? It's my baby and has never let me down. Powerful and dependable.

Back on theme here is a highly modified diesel Hilux going through some water and mud in Australia. NA people should remember this model Toyota.

@Hemi V8
I have driven both on sand and believe it or not I do prefer the new diesels. They are putting V6 power with V8 torque.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAC11MNBLA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEQ0Yl8OrEU&list=UUnUsN6IdFOJsFYagdHbDT3g&index=7&feature=plcp

Looks like an 1983 Toyota. My uncle had one two wheel drive.

Looking to buy a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. It is coming out with a diesel soon. So you would choose the small diesel over the 5.7 Hemi with an 8 speed trans? Don't know the numbers.
You would choose the one with more torque? For off road.

@HEMI V8
I considered buying one, but I bought my Mazda pickup instead, it offers nearly the same performance but is more rugged and can carry more weight. My pickup also has more options for the price.

Here is a link to the review done on the diesel in Australia.

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/jeep_grand_cherokee_laredo_crd_review

@Big Al, Thanks. I don't know these #'s 8.3liters/100 km=U.S.
177 kw power=U.S.
550 NM=U.S.
Do You?

@Hemi V8 - conversion tables or conversion web sites exist all over the www.

8.3L/100 km = 28.3 mpg US gallon
There is a conversion multiplier but I never can remember it. Convert litres to gallons and kilometres to miles = 1.6 km is 1 mile.
1 USA gallon = 3.78 litres
Canada, Great Britian and most other countries use a different gallon size. 1 Imperial gallon = 4.55 litres.
Imperial Gallon is 20% larger than the US Customary Gallon.

If you are looking at other sites that give MPG ratings it is a good idea to check the country the testing is done in.

1 kilowatt = 1.34102209 hp
therefore 177 kw = 237.4 hp

1 Lb-Ft = 1.35582 Nm
therefore 550 Nm = 745.7 lbft.

I'm surprized the USA hasn't changed to metric. There are only 3 countries in the world that do not use metric - USA, Liberia (in western Africa), and Burma (also known as Myanmar, in Southeast Asia).
Some experts are saying that the USA economy could gain up to 20% in profit for companies trading globally.
The actual costs to GDP are mind boggling.
http://www.cs.csustan.edu/~rrsilver/notes/CostOfNonMetrication.pdf
http://opengov.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Completely-switch-the-US-to-the-metric-system-by-2019/5814-4049
One other point that is interesting, the USA "Customary System" uses 2 different volume measurement - one for "dry" and one for "wet" measurements. The Imperial gallon uses the same measurement for both.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_imperial_and_US_customary_measurement_systems

Many people have pointed out that fuel consumption ratings for vehicles vary by jurisdiction.
My 2010 truck is rated 14/18 mpg in the USA and in Canada is rated at 15.9 l/100km city and 11.3 l/100 km highway or 18/25 Imperial MPG. That would equate to 15/21 US "Customary" miles per gallon.
I've managed to get a best of 18 city/24.5 highway (imperial) or 15/20.4 USA (Customary) MPG with my 5.4 powered 2010 F150 supercrew 6.5 box truck with 3.55 gears. That highway mpg was with a light load of camping gear filling the back of the truck to the level of the box sides. I seem to get slightly worse empty. This was discussed on a previous thread because air striking the tailgate is more pronouced on a longer box pickup. A tonneau would most likely improve my mpg.

@HemiV8 You do get people towing on sand. This 5,500lb Caravan being towed through some pretty soft sand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lei5H1ptv_I

@HEMI V8
The Hilux was actually a RC. Great footage and photography.