Ford Reclaims V-6 Towing Title

Ford Reclaims V-6 Towing Title

I suppose we should have seen this coming.

Just over a month ago, the new Ram 1500 was declared to have the best fuel-economy numbers of any half-ton pickup when equipped with the new Pentastar V-6 and eight-speed transmission. (The HFE model, rated at 18/25 mpg city/highway, includes a rather pricey start/stop piece of engine technology.) The new Ram also boasted best-in-class towing among naturally aspirated V-6 engines, with a Ram-rated (read: not SAE's J2807 rating) 6,500 pounds.

At the State Fair of Texas, Ford has just announced — without so much as changing a bolt on the current regular cab 2013 F-150 4x2 with the 3.7-liter V-6 — that the previous tow rating of 6,100 pounds is now 6,700 pounds, 200 pounds more than the brand-new Ram 1500. (Remember our "magical spring dust" story some years back?)

Ford said it went back and did a few more tests, and engineers say they're comfortable with the new best-in-class Ford-rated (also meaning non-SAE-rated) 6,700 pounds.

These new ratings are specific to a truck with 3.73:1 gears. In fact, a regular cab 4x4 is rated at 6,500 pounds, a Super Cab 4x2 at 6,400 pounds and a Super Crew 4x2 at 6,300 pounds. Maximum towing on a 3.7-liter F-150 with 3.55:1 gears is 5,600 pounds.

If you want more fun, take a look at the Ford press release with the towing information. Anything catch your eye?

"The Ford F-150 pickup equipped with the standard 3.7-liter V-6 engine has the highest towing capacity among competitive models. F-150 can tow a 6,700-pound trailer, besting the 2013 Dodge Ram 1500 3.6-liter V-6 by 200 pounds and the Chevrolet Silverado 4.3-liter V-6 model by 1,300 pounds.

"The Ford F-150 with 3.7-liter V-6 engine beats the Toyota Tundra’s standard 4.0-liter V-6 model by an additional 1,800 pounds. The Nissan Titan offers no comparable V-6 variant.

"F-150 owns the maximum towing capacity honor, too. Both the 3.5-liter EcoBoost and 6.2-liter V-8 are rated to tow up to best-in-class 11,300 pounds."

You'd think Ford would at least know the correct name of its closest rival (when comparing maximum tow ratings, at least). But then again, maybe that wasn't an accident.

Ford continues to say it will adhere to the J2807 towing procedures when the company comes to market with a new pickup. The last new F-150 came in 2009; 2011 gave us four new engines; and 2013 gives us a few new packages and interior upgrades.

We're guessing we're still a few years away from a half-ton market where we can get all the tow testing from each of the truck makers on the same page. Until then, we're sure to see more of this type of "magical" gamesmanship.

Comments

Why don't Ford shove their rating up their ass. Everybody knows they are lying thru their teeth. That's is why they backed out of SAE ratings. They new they were gonna get caught with their pants down yet they sill continue telling us bed time stories about them having best tow/payload ratings!Please!
Garbage Company spewing lies. Always were, still are and always will be hiding behind their wanna be lives.

This is like the cummins in 2011/2012 it had 300lbs more towing then fords Powerstroke so they said best in class I mean really if it's going to be bestin class from any truck I don't want a few 100pounds I want a good 5000 lbs

If the Tundra is following the new SAE standard and is 1800 lbs under the Ford, should we assume that the Ford and Ram will drop by a similar amount once they implement that standard?

@ Diesel Power: You are reading my mind! I totally agree with you.

@ Mark Williams: Will there a 2013 half-ton hurt locker test? Tundra 5.7, EcoBoost, F150 5.0, Ram 5.7 with 8 speed? I'd mention GM 6.2, but there has to be a penalty because it requires premium fuel or if no penalty, then it runs on regular fuel.

Right on Ford!!! Always one step ahead of everybody else Number 1 selling truck on the planet funny how they just took a dump right on the Ram new v6 lol Just face it Ram fairys u always be 3rd place maybe 4th when the new Titan comes out or maybe 5th when the Toyota finally brings a new Tundra out. The Ram has a very sad life always in 3rd place ppl that own them are not all there think there Hemi v8 can out tow the ecoboost think the cummins pos diesel can out tow our ford diesel just give it up u live in a fantasy world haha

This all pure marketing BS. All 3 manufacturers are guilty of this, and I must confess that I pay no mind to any of it.

Ford buys that "magical spring dust" from Oxi

@harleyf150 you know nothing your like what high school? Grow up kid even pickuptrucks.com thinks this is stupid u just think ford is cool cuz your daddy bought one grow up go talk to men that have owned them all

@Truckerman
Bahaha post of the day

@LJC
I have been asking for that test for a while but now I want a new participant the TRD Supercharged Tundra. I have more power at the wheels then those other trucks have at the crank with a factory warranty still. I will gladly take the valid point deduction for premium gas.

I find it so entertaining how competitive the truck manufactures are and even more so how the owners bash on each other. My favorite must be the Ford guys. They sure like their number one selling and best in class title... Guess what? Mcdonalds has the best selling hamburgers in the United States, does that make them the best?

Lol Dodgeguy what a lame post. Soon as a Ford post comes on this site All the Ram guys are on here Blasting away well i have things to say about the Ram i can say them . By the way i own a 2011 Harley f150 and i work in the oil patch in Alberta and i been around trucks alot. And its so funny seeing Dodge boys get all crazy when Ford ups them one. Number one in towing Ford the best of the best!!

@harleyf-150

Right on mid life crisis trim F-150 owner!!! So you really think all of a sudden, by the snap of their fingers, Ford's garbage 3.7 V6 can out tow the Ram's Pentastar? Get a reality check, this is obviously just a bunch of c%@p. About that Egoboost wind mill. It tows up to 11,300 lbs but for how long before that turbo throws in the towel? Lol Man, I can't wait til they put the 8 speed HEMI against the Egoboost.

MORE HP
MORE MPG
MORE SPEED
MORE DURABILITY
MORE RELIABILITY
MORE GLORY FOR RAM!!!

Actually, I'm starting to think Ford and Ram might be playing "chicken" to see who will release their official HD numbers first.

That's like a certain old Ford Gran Torino with the 302 c.i.d. that pulled a 5,000 pound travel trailer every year for most of its life with the first owner and at roughly 96,000 miles had to have a new engine dropped in because the old one literally had its guts 'pulled' out of it. Sure, maybe that engine can pull it--in fact, I'm sure it can; but for how long? That G-Torino survived almost 20 years--but the last 5 were spent with a 351 under the hood, not the original 302.

@Ram Man

Lol you're calling Fords 3.7L V6 garbage when it outpowers the Pentastar AND gets better fuel econmy. Even with 8 forward gears I bet Fords 3.7L will still sh*t all over the Pentastars.

Ford did some studies? Lol! I bet they didn't do much! Has anybody on here seen the powerband of the 3.7 on the Ford sites comparo? The 3.6 Pentastar has a bit more low end and it's a broader powerband. (it can always be more!) But which would you rather have, a truck with a wider powerband and 2 more gears so not as big a gap in between gears? Or less gears and peakier from a heavier truck. Sure, I know the Ram will at times have to down shift 3 or 4 gears, like this site wrote about when they first tested Fords 3.7 v-6 in a truck. But with an 8 speed, it may not have to drop as many, smoother gear changes, and of course, the better mileage the Ram gives.

I wonder how many configurations the Ram offers that can do 6500?

We just need a shootout! That's all! And while we have it, maybe we can do some tests at 70% max tow (you don't buy a truck to tow at it's max, do you? Not me!) And some at 100%. We will have braking empty, at 70% and full load! Then say 1000 pounds PAYLOAD, then MAX payload. Then we can also see which ones have the most fade! (I think the Ford in the autocross with 1000 pounds went first to worst in the 30K shootout! It's little flimsy Hankook Dynopros that get the good mileage can't handle the weight.) While we test, take them from a flat area to a steep hill ad see which has the biggest change in RPM while hanlding the hill with say 70% trailer weight. And let's figure cost in the shootout!

@nate.m

Know the facts:

RAM Pentastar V6
305 HP 25 MPG

F-150 3.7L V6
302 HP 23 MPG

MORE HP
MORE MPG
MORE GLORY
RAM!!!

"Ford Reclaims V-6 Towing Title"

Did they have any competition, or is this by default? I think it is by default because there is no competition.

The Ford V6 is in a class of one, all by itself; the V6s from GM, RAM, Toyota and Nissan aren't even close. Add to that the final gearing... and you sacrifice top speed for low-end grunt.

Plus, the Ford 3.7 is a long-stroke, hi-torque truck engine, unlike the V6s from the others that are built for general-purpose use in both cars and trucks.

Ford can claim all it wants at least until the Tundra tows the Space Shuttle to it final resting place in LA.

ford been lost their towing and payload credibility with me...

ford pulled the same magic dust back when the titan announced their 9000+lbs rating in '03 and also again when the tundra announced 10800 back in '06. if i remember right, gm announced 11000 some yrs back n the f150 magically over nite jumped to 11300...

@5.3 lol: You might have more wheel power then the others have crank power, but at what cost? Isn't that superchager about a $7,000 option? Kinda a steep comparison. Isn't that almost the differance between me just buying a diesel Ram? Not much differance. Of course I can't say a 2500 Ram will feel very sporty empty compared to your ride, but towing wise, it would get better mileage (although that is one thing Ram has to do, step up the diesel mileage compared to the other 2.) Forget about the fact the Ram may not be as quick as the other two, if I bought one it wouldn't be for racing. Low RPM power! I really think the 6.7 would outlast your 5.7 superchaged by a long amount.

But atleast your set up is available, and with factory warranty. Cory will be along soon to show us videos of 5.0 and 6.2 Fords with tuners, headers, and superchargers that have no warranty at all, so if you blow it up, you are stuck with the bill! Or bolt everything stock back on try to make it look like it just happened! "Don't know why my 6.2 Ford has a rod through the bock, gotta blame Ford!" LOL!

First of all, this is just a marketing move so they can have something to announce at the TX fair. Ram will likely counter with a magical update after GM announces their numbers.

Second, not many people buy a truck with this engine if they plan to tow that much very often. Who cares about who has the best towing truck in the smallest engine category? Seems silly.

Third, I think Ford sandbagged their numbers on their trucks in 2011. This little 3.7 model completely ran away with the title of Best Overall V-6 Work Truck on this site. Here's a quote from that article: "In almost every performance test, Ford’s all-new six dominated the competition by significant margins". Ford had room to hold back on their numbers, waiting for the competition to catch up. As they do catch up, Ford will bump their numbers closer to reality.


@harleyf-150

Right on mid life crisis trim F-150 owner!!! So you really think all of a sudden, by the snap of their fingers, Ford's garbage 3.7 V6 can out tow the Ram's Pentastar? Get a reality check, this is obviously just a bunch of c%@p. About that Egoboost wind mill. It tows up to 11,300 lbs but for how long before that turbo throws in the towel? Lol Man, I can't wait til they put the 8 speed HEMI against the Egoboost.

MORE HP
MORE MPG
MORE SPEED
MORE DURABILITY
MORE RELIABILITY
MORE GLORY FOR RAM!!!


Posted by: RAM MAN | Sep 27, 2012 11:25:09 AM

Amen my fellow RAM brother. The EGO Boost turbo will be reduced to flying shrapnel when put under a load for an extended period of time. iT is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. When you want durability look no further than RAM and Pentastar.

GUTS
GLORY
MORE DURABLE THAN EGO BOOST
PENTASTAR POWERED
RAM


Posted by: HEMI Rules The world | Sep 27, 2012 12:27:51 PM

Both the egoboost, and pentastar have had problems so far ticking head and intercooler. If you want durable get a 4.3L Chevy. lol Old and slow but the Chevy V6 still goes.

@ Ram man
People like to use the Ecoboost turbos as a failure option, but they are not. Most automotive turbos now a days last well past 250,000 miles, and you best believe Ford did its homework before putting this technology on the market. Hell the turbos will outlast the engine. The Honeywell turbos use by the Ecoboost engine center bearing are water cooled to prevent oil coking. These turbos were orange hot torture tested and never failed. Not to mention the Ecoboost engines have been around since 2007 and there have been no turbo failures.

@hemi personalities - Go watch the ecoboost torture tests. They ran the truck for 24 hours at WOT pulling 11k lbs of trailer. I didn't notice any flying shrapnel...

Remember when Ford sandbagged the new powerstroke? lol I guess thats one way to beat the competitors, underrate, competition beats underrated spec, then go and release full rating to beat said competitor.

Guts
Glory
Fooled

@TRX4 Tom
You are 100% correct that 6.7L Cummins will outlast my Supercharged 5.7L iforce well before it's first overhaul. The price of adding the TRD Supercharger is like the price of a diesel option. I just can't pass up 504hp/550lb ft stock then when the warranty is gone a smaller pulley for an additional 2 PSI http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-performance-modifications/110183-asp-pulleys.html and long tube headers http://www.urdusa.com/Exhaust-&-Headers-Headers/c93_120/p1260518755/THY-560Y-L-C-Thorley-Header,-2007+-Tundra-5.7L-Ceramic-LongTube/product_info.html taking me around 550hp/600lb ft at the crank.

All these number games among the manufactures don't mean squat to me. As I stated a few months back, my friend used is early Chevy's truck with a 350 auto to pull 16,000 lbs. 250 miles round trip. Truck was rated to pull 6'000 I think. He installed a 30,000 gvw trans cooler and a brake controller. Was this smart? No, but it was a one time pull. He sold that truck 40,000 miles later with the same tranny in it, but you wouldn't want to do this every week or you would have to pay the piper.

There sure are a lot more ram fans than I ever remember. I guess cause ram was always the crappiest of the big three until recently. Does anyone really pay attention to these ratings anyways? I'm glad Ram has stepped up their game, but I won't make the mistake of buying a Ram over a Ford again anytime soon. No doubt my next truck is an ecoboost.

All this article shows is that the manufacturers' liability people force conservative numbers. When those numbers jeopardize sales they allow them to increase. You can bet they'll not increase to the point that warranty costs and/or safety issues (lawsuits) outweigh the sales increases. What we really need is everyone adhering to J2807. Now.

Turbos never last! That's why no vehicle on the road uses turbochargers..... Oh wait a minute, every semi on the road is turbocharged. So is practically every piece of machinery over 50 h.p. and those never last long right? Idiot....

Agreed. No surprise here. Ford is # 1 as always. The best trucks and now it's cars are very very impressive.

I own the king Triton V10 SuperDuty.
Nothing to say against the RAM.
GM? lol

What is the deal with turbos? Is it that more aggressive (higher psi) turbos die more quickly? Or does it have much more to do with build quality / cooling capacity of the turbo?

This is slighty off topic, but everybody is talking turbo's right now, so does anybody know what psi the eco runs? I don't think I've ever seen this answer in print. Anybody help me out on this question?

@DeBinder Dundett: Uh, before this year there was not mutch competion. Toyota? A decent v-6. Ram? Oldschool 12 valve 3.7 with an old school 4 speed auto. One that had not nearly as much 1 st gear as the Ford, and bigger gaps between the gears. Now? An 8 speed with gears much closer (so what you might pull in the Ford with a 6 speed, you could be upshifting a gear or two to not run the engine as hard.

The GM V-6? Even more so old school, and bigger then the two others, but yet in the v-6 shootout it was so far behind!

Maybe you have yet to see an engine dyno graph of the two engines? If you look at Fords "Head to Head" comparison, you can see the 3.7 numbers. I wonder if Ford will redo that for 2013 and show the 3.6 Pentastars higher bottom end? Or will they just take it off their site? The whole Head to Head will need changed. It compares gas prices (of which the Hemi will out mileage the Ecoboost now) The Head to Head as well shows the gas mileage of unloaded truck. Hello, turbo engines drink alot when worked. All that low speed grunt for pulling their 9,000 trailers has a drawback. That what they don't mention.

The Ford is a high torque truck engine? It makes what?, 7 more ft pound torque from about 6 more cubic inches.

"Add to that the final gearing... and you sacrifice top speed for low-end grunt."

You wanna break that down? I do know the Ram can have 3.92s, vs. Fords 3.73. Even though the Ford has a .69 6th and the Ram has a .67 final in the 8 speed. So more final gear for the Ram once you muliply it. Although Ford puts 30" ish (various 30" tires of sizes) tires on theirs to help with gearing, and less rolling resistance on smooth ground. Ram uses 31.7". The Ford will probably let it run 6th gear towing. If a person wants to, they can gets an 8 speed Ram with 3.21 gears. In tow haul if it locks out the highest gear, it would have a 2.72 final while the 3.73 ford in 6th has a 2.57. The Ram still has the gear advantage with the 3.21 gears to make it also get the better then Ford highway mileage. That's with 3.21 gears! It even has the gear advatage over Ford with 3.55! Right up to 3.92 I started with!

Maybe you never even read the reviews for the 3.7 Ford? About the rpms??

Who cares about the Tundra towing the space shuttle? What's it weigh? They could just get a diesel and pay alot less in fuel.

The more I see coments from folks like you, the more I remember alot of folks don't understand gear ratios!

Damn! I shoulda used spell check, or atleast proofread that! Sorry!

@phillyguy Yes you would think so, or drop a lot more if they were being truthful.

but they have a trany always broke..same problem before.and not only the f150 but the suv,car etc..

For my needs either the Ford 3.7 or Ram 3.6 would work well but the Ram has more models that can accomodate the V-6. I'd like the quad-cab 6.5 bed in 4x4. The Ford can only come in the extended cab, the crew requires the 5.0.

I know that space wise the quad-cab Ram and Ford extended cab are about the same but I like the outside access of 4 actual doors. I do believe that the Ram will allow for lower than 3.73 gearing too. I don't need the full max towing and I don't want to give up the mpg's either.

@phillyguy and Fred the man - You might occasionally hear of problems with turbos but that primarily applies to aftermarket turbo setups. These push the motor to it's limits and are biased for performance rather than reliability.

From what I understand the ecoboost only pushes 10-14 psi max boost. The turbos are water cooled and they have an auxiliary pump that circulates water through them even after the engine is turned off.

It's way, way too easy for manufacturers to play this game. Where the hell are the J2807 SAE standards we were promised years ago? So far, Toyota is the only manufacturer brave enough to publish ratings that meet this standard. GM was GOING to do it, but when Ford and Ram didn't follow, they backed off.

It's a travesty - Ford claims to be an innovative company, but their record here is beyond poor. If Mike Levine wasn't *working* for Ford right now, I bet he'd be calling them out...

If you are going to buy a pickup for towing the best option is to grab one with a towbar for a weekend and tow with it before purchasing.

I've stated this before, just because a manufacturers puts out a tow figure doesn't mean its the safest and best vehicle for towing.

You might find a vehicle with a tow rating of 5 500lbs handles better and pulls up better than one rate at 6 500lbs.

If you envisage that you will never tow more than 5 000lbs who cares what the tow rating is, unless you have small doodle syndrome.

These figures are for the people who buy because the TV commercial says it better than product X. You know the bigger is better approach.

@ Harleyf150,

Ford is the best selling truck because it is the cheapest truck around ! Low price - higer sales,nothing new there it happens all the time ! Thats why Wal-Mart is so poular,its cheap ! I know people,including myself who bought Ford's because only of the pricing,example a base model 6 cyl single cab Ford is $5,000 less then a RAM base model 6 cyl..A GM truck is also cheaper then the RAM..Just in the last year or so,RAM has had some base models on its lots,single cab ect..before they usually had loaded up RAM's.I just drove a new Ford and it was a flashback to 2004 when I bought my F-150,same body style,same feel.I just dont know what I was thinking back then,I keep seeing Dodge RAM trucks on the road and they look so hot,even the late 90's versions look tough,my F-150 looks like a car,ugly front clip ect..I bought my loaded XLT because it was $8000 cheapper then a Dodge RAM SLT back in the day,now when I get my 2013 Dodge RAM 1500 I will gladly pay more money for a better ,quality,hot looking,powerful truck ! I would rather have a v-8 then a 6 cyl Turbo Eco-Girly motor.Eco boosts only get 14 mpg average,compared to 18 mpg with a HEMI !

Are there any relevant posts on this thread?
@HarleyF150 - It is iscredibly lame of Ford to pull some numbers out of a hat so that they can say they have the best towing capacity in a normally aspirated V6 when nothing has changed.

@TRXTom - agreed, most do not buy pickups to tow at max capacity.

All of the manufacturer's play this game. As far as Ford doing extra testing and coming up with new numbers - flat out PR Bull feces.
When engineers design and build a truck (or anything for that matter) they already know what the maximum capacities are. They know failure limits, and how extra stress equals to excess wear and tear. That all comes from testing and computer modeling.
PR hacks take the engineers numbers and play with them. All it does is make them look stupid - at least to knowledgable truck owners.
I wonder how many people out their are dumb enough to fall for this kind of stuff?
I have never heard a guy say to a buddy, "My truck can tow 200 lb more than your truck".
I wonder why that kind of stupid mentality permiates this site.

The anonymity of the internet sure does bring out the best (sic) in a person.

TRX4 Tom, I'm not into six cylinder trucks. Don't believe in them.

For me a half-ton truck needs to have at least a V8 of 350 cubic inch displacement or better, and 3/4 ton and up should have a big block of 400 cubic inch displacement or bigger.

For me, the bigger, the better. You don't buy a truck for economy or to project an eco image. You buy a truck for the utility and functionality it offers.

And, like most Americans, I don't care what gas costs. The high price of gas has not caused me to cut back on driving, nor do I buy any less gas. When the gas gauge says "Fill it!", I fill it. I don't worry about "OMG! Look at the price of gas!!!" I fill it. Just like most Americans.

After having owned all brands of trucks over the decades that functioned as my rolling office as a subcontractor for electronic repair and maintenance to one of the largest Prime Federal Contractors in the international military/industrial complex, I can honestly tell you that I drive a 2009 Tundra 5.7 Limited by choice because it is the best truck I have ever owned in 66 years of living.

And bragging rights is what it is all about! That's what Ford is doing with their normally aspirated 3.7 V6 and that's what Tundra will be doing when they do their towing of the Space Shuttle stunt.

I'm going to be there, just like when the shuttle arrived at Edwards. I was there.

I'm not a Chevy or Dodge guy, but Ford is easily the most guilty of this tow inflation nonsense. The only people who should publish a rating are the Toyota folks.

@DeBinder Dundett
Man, what crap you speak. Move to Easter Island.

I don't think you represent the "average" American.

If a truck is bought for business, economy of maintaining that vehicle is a significant consideration. That is to reduce the vehicles liability towards profit.

You have an idea on profit and loss?

Simple.

You obviously don't own and operate a business.

DeBinder Dundett: I, like you, also put gas in my truck when it is needed. However, I do have a 96 Camry coupe 4 cylinder 5 speed. Gets me great mileage when I don't need to move something heavy or big. Or when I am by myself. No sense in my driving 6 miles into town to get something signed or see a doctor or something like that, right? No point in my wear out a 275/70 R17 LT tire when I can wear out a cheaper 195/70 R 14, that runs off 3.8 qts of oil, not 7. Sometimes we just take my girlfriends 2000 Nissan and save gas, although the little 1.8 engine is constantly downshifting.

Maybe you can envision people that don't have such deep pockets? Or maybe people need the capity of a truck for business? A family maybe wants to tow that 4-5 thousand pound boat, and need seating for 5. Maybe they need a truck for their camping gear? Whatever, a truck fits their plan. A worker maybe doesn't need the power to pull a heavy trailer, but needs space. Space a Toyota Tacoma or Nissan hasn't the bed space. Maybe they are in Illinois, or Florida or some other flat state? Maybe they use it in the city alot, which sucks the gas out of ANY V-8! There is a use for a v-6 truck. We don't all need 350 plus ft pounds of torque! I do, but that is MY NEEDS! I live in a hilly place, I need the bed space, I tow 6K on ocasion. So, I don't believe V-6 NATURALLY aspirated trucks cover my needs.
But, unlike you, I realize not everybody needs a full size the same as I do. Or differant features of it. Or the torque or higher numerical axle ratios. It is good to have options. Others can make fine use of a 3.6/ 3.7 Ford. I know, you are loaded with money and don't care! Lots of Amercans DO CARE about the price of gas! I have a friend that just got a well paying hospital job, (@20 y/o) after getting a degree. Sure, he likes his full size truck! But is it senseable for him to drive 40 miles a day plus? When he doesn't have to haul but once a week to the racetrack, 14 miles round trip? He could be doing that with a 4x4 single cab v-6 truck, his car and trailer weighs less 4500 pounds. But yet if he needs to pick up parts, the 1500 will do that! But he knows that 5.9 gas Dodge 4x4s drink gas, so therefore bought a 4 cylinder car! But yet he could be a candidate for a 3.6 truck. He doesn't need to prove anything to you on the road, he gets his kicks on the racetrack with near 550-600 hp.

You started out talking up Ford, saying there is no competition, but then, you pretty well said you don't think v-6 need be in trucks. Whats your point? Your outlook and attitude sure changed when I got mechanical?

I know for certain that Ford has to go big stroke with not only the 3.7, but the 5.0 and 6.2, and al lmake less power down low, with all their tech (or lack of tech, i.e., 6.2!) Really? it's kinda funny! I would like to see the Ram make a longer stroke v-6, as it is now the 3.6 is so close to the bigger 3.7! The ( TWO VALVE) Hemi makes a broader powerband then that there high tech 5. ohhh! And people like 6.2s only cause they make more power, but don't care how they compare to others inch per inch!

All of the above now do not have the advantage of an 8 speed, neither does your Tundra! The Tundra trans did make it shine for a long time, (lower gear ratios and better spaced) but now it's number 2!

Well good for you, you can see the space shuttle til your heart's content. I choose not to see it while at an Army base I was at.

Nothing has to change to change the tow ratings. They were low enough to bein with. If the truck can handle 6700 lbs the tow rating can increase. It's that simple. If it can handle a bigger weight why should they keep it lower? To be fair to the Rambos? That's not how it works! This is a business.

Big Al from Oz, TRX4 Tom , from 1985 - 2007 I was self employed as a subcontractor to the Prime Federal Contractor at Edwards AFB and China Lake, Fallon, and a few other classified satellite monitoring locations, like those remote locations out in the desert of Arizona and California, and used my truck as my office and toolbox for all my gear.

From 2007 - Dec 12, 2009 I was VP for the electronics division of that same Prime Federal Contractor and spent much of my time at the Pentagon and Roanoke. I have a BSEE, MSEE and MBA.

I have worn out a few trucks because I ran them for 8-12 hours each day when I was a working man. I took the full depreciation on each one of them and traded them as soon as I had written them off.

Dudes! I never cared about the price of gas! Most Americans do not care about the price of gas. Gas was the lifeblood of my business. Without it, I did not move. I made money with my trucks.

But a six cylinder in a half-ton truck is just not my bag. Ford is probably the best truck out today, but the Tundra had all the domestics beat when it was introduced in 2007.

Don't any of you remember all the domestics comparing themselves to the 2007 Tundra? The Tundra got their attention, didn't it?

The domestics didn't have sixspeed automatics until Tundra introduced them, and I have no doubt that Tundra will introduce the eight-speed (from the LS460) very soon. We have one in my wife's LS460 and it is very capable.

And as far as truck ability goes, there has been nothing that I did with all my other trucks that I cannot do with my current Tundra. But that 5.7 V8 engine is a modern marvel to behold. The domestics have nothing even close to it, or for that matter, the Nissan 5.6 Endurance.

Ford claiming the normally aspirated V6 towing title is a crock and a marketing ploy to sell more 6 cylinder trucks to lower their CAFE averages.

Only wannabees drive full-size half-ton 6 cylinder trucks. Guys who know trucks and rely on them like I did buy V8s. People who have to worry about what gas costs have no business buying a truck!

Hey, why not put a four cylinder, bi-turbo Cosworth in an F150 and claim the towing title for a four banger in a half-ton truck!?

I think Toyota will milk the shuttle-towing stunt to the max, and it is all about bragging rights. If the domestics had thought of it first, we wouldn't have all this pissing and moaning.



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