It's just a survey for Consumer Reports subscribers. Tells me most of them like Toyotas. However, Consumer Reports doesn't know jack about trucks, so I don't read their reviews anymore. Some short gal says a Ram has I high step in, and if she drove product X, it would have a high step in too. They ranked the Avalanche as top truck, really? A truck that is restricted to a 5.3 and it's gears, and can't haul much of anything with any size.

What is the reasoning behind the drop? A survey? A survey of who? How did they drop so fast? Does this have to do with the new engines in the f 150? Does this have anything to do with the pickups? Is this all because of problems with sync? Are these the kind or reliability problems that leave you stranded on the road? Powertrain problems or problems with the radio/nav system? I remember when there used to be good articles on this website that actually gave some good insight. Not so much anymore.

Consumer reports, can you believe they actually charge money for this bogus magazine. What does MFT have to do with getting from point A to point B?

You should also mention the $1.6B 3Q earning.

Ford fell the farthest, placing 27th among 28 brands. LMFAOROFLSM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT OUGHT TO SHUT UM UP.

Well at least the survey reflects the luck that I've had with Fords over the years, good price when I bought them but they became huge money pits and Ford wouldn't back the warranties

I like how the reasoning behind this fall in standings is left out, which would be the myford touch. It is said to be too complex and confusing, but I have never had a problem comprehending mine.

Chrysler reported a preliminary third-quarter net income of $381 million, 80% more than the same quarter a year ago. For the first nine months of the year, net income totaled $1.3 billion.

“We’ve changed the conversation at Chrysler Group,” said Sergio Marchionne, Chrysler Group LLC Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. “… We are confirming guidance for the year, and expect Free Cash Flow to be well in excess of $1 billion.”

Net revenue for the quarter was $15.5 billion, up 18% from the third quarter of 2011, primarily driven by a 19% increase in shipments. For the first nine months of the year, the Company recorded net revenue of $48.6 billion, a 22% increase from the same period a year ago.

Modified Operating Profit(b) grew to $706 million in the quarter, up 46% from a year earlier; cash flow for the quarter was a loss of $65 million, compared with a loss of nearly $700 million a year ago. Net industrial debt was $693 million, though, compared with $2.2 billion a year ago; it appears cash has been diverted to loan repayment, cutting operating costs.

Worldwide vehicle shipments were 559,000 for the quarter, up 19% from the third quarter 2011. Worldwide sales were 556,000 for the quarter, up 12%. Third-quarter US market share was 11%; Canadian market share was 14%. More details and a Q&A will be presented on Tuesday.
http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2012/10/chrysler-declares-another-profit

@tucker, It also has to do with ford transmission problems.

@beebe - I had read on another site that there were 3 things that hit Ford's overall rating. The biggest was "MyTouch". They released some new car models that had teething problems, and there was mention of a new 6 speed. That information wasn't in great detail but it did shed more light than this site's release.

It would be interesting to see more data on each of the models. Is Ford getting hit for its new engines too? That would be a bigger problem than someone not being able to figure out an infotainment system. Recalls would also affect reliability. The new Escape has been hit with several recalls.
I am sure one of the goat herder's will spooge themselves over this news release.

IIRC Consumer Reports rates reliability relative to other brands. Consumer Reports has tried to "walk away" from predicted reliability. They got burned badly a few years ago for giving Toyota a good record based on past performance.
That may work to some degree with unchanged models. If the prior model was very reliable and the new model is unchanged that should be a predictor for the latest model.
Most of Toyota's lineup is unchanged with the exception of cosmetics so it really isn't that hard to keep a high rating.

I cannot see how this would predict Ram's reliability for 2013 as the transmission, air-ride, grill shutters, and Pentastar are new for that model. It would be worth cross checking Chrysler/Jeep products with the Pentastar and 8 speed to see how they rate.
I think that the Pentastar will fair okay despite its "head" recall.
The Chrysler 300 and Jeep Grand Cherokee both had "average" ratings with the V6 and below average with a V8. You'd think it would be the other way around since the V6 is new or do those models have a V6 that is different than the Pentastar?

I'd reserve judgement until I see JD Power's data. If the 2 sources corroborate - that would be a good indication of reliability.

It seems to be reasuring that I chose to buy a 2010 over a 2011. It is always best to let someone else be part of the beta test.

Doesn't surprise that American car makers are far behind in the race...it is as expected. Silly fords and gmcs never can match up to the standards of Honda and Toyota.

@Hemi v8, no mechanical failure or problems with the transmissions, but instead "rough shifting Powershift automatic transmissions"

Drive a ford and honda vehicles of the same class and you'll know why. Fords gives me a feel of carrying along large tin cans tied to the car...carrying along all the parts of the car...like 'just married' cars...honda is like a one piece car.

A year back I met with an accident (no fault of mine) while driving my honda when a ford hit me on the driver side...after pulling over we realized that the driver side of my car had scratches and small dents...whereas fords passenger side was completely screwed beyond repair. Fords driver stared at both the cars in dismay and all he said was 'is this a car or a tank'...i replied 'its a honda'.

@tucker, 2013 Ford Escape recalled for third time, again for fire risk.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/05/2013-ford-escape-recalled-for-third-time-again-for-fire-risk/

2011 Ford F-150 Recalled for Potential Fire

http://www.pricewheels.com/car-news/2010/12/31/2011-ford-f-150-fire-recall/

@ Hey bill sorry I know fordtrucks.com I mean pickuptrucks.com wont show this little nugget.lol

Posted by: HEMI V8 | Oct 30, 2012 11:13:08 AM

Guess Mark Williams proved you wrong HEMI V8 lol!

Dave Lee proved you wrong my bad!

@jon, I am shocked,but I love how they talked about Ram 2500's to make that flaming ford look better lol.

LOL! yeah

Down rated because they never took the time to learn how to use mft then complain about it being confusing. Yeah that sure means its unreliable. Then they complain about the transmission not being a slushy mcslushbox or cvt, but if it was, they would complain about it being to slushy.

@Lou & @TRX4 Tom--CRs main gripe is the MyTouch system in the Fords which has had many problems. A vehicle can be average or above average but if something like a hands free system or navigation system has problems then that vehicle will earn a lower score. I think this besides the 6 speed transmission. I read CR but like anything I take their ratings with a grain of salt and not literally.

@Lou--You are correct about Toyota not changing their vehicles much which also applies to their Lexus brand. It is hard to mess up too much on reliablity when you go ten plus years on the same basic platform and drivetrain (some what the same with Honda). The Chevy Cruze had problems their first year but after a couple of years it will become more reliable as will the new Fords that have just been introduced, but Ford needs to do some more work on getting the bugs out of My Touch. A general rule is it is usually unwise to get the first couple of years of a redesigned vehicle because it takes time to iron out the bugs.

@Arvind - do some reseach on crumple zones. The fact that the car that hit you had severe damage to the nose means that it did exactly what it was supposed to do. The fact that your vehicle's door did not cave in too badly also indicated that it did what it was supposed to do.
Unless you are an accident reconstructionist or an automotive engineer, your story does not prove what vehicle was built better.
It just shows that both vehicles did what they were designed to do:
front end - dissipate kinetic energy
door - resist incursion into the passenger compartment.

"Just to be safe, you may want to park your new Ford outside rather than in the garage until you find out for sure if it’s affected by the recall." Boy that's an understatement. Might want to skip the fires and buy another brand.

I bought a 2012 Ford Explorer Limited.

Consumers Reports is correct, the MFT system is a nightmare. I have some hope that Ford might eventually fix this. Their reputation is on the line, and I for one won't be buying a Ford again if this isn't resolved.

@Gary,

My 1999 F250 V10 has been running strong, I think I done alright.

Posted by: Frank | Oct 30, 2012 6:00:19 PM

@FRANK, THAT 1999 F250 IS A SMOKING HOT TRUCK!!!! LOL

1999 F-250’s,SMOKING!!!! Ford Recall: Faulty Fuel Tank Straps Force Recall of 1.1 Million Pick-Up Trucks that has caused fires.
http://www.inquisitr.com/131876/ford-recall-f-150-f-250-lincoln-blackwood/

1999 Ford F250 SMOKING!!!!! Recalls 3.8 Million Trucks and SUVs to Fix Cruise Control Switch that has caused Fires.

http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/safety-recall-5.shtml

@ Lou but mostly Jeff S.

Neither of you apparently have looked at Toyota's lineup lately. Ten years of the same platform really? First of all Every model that Toyota builds has changed platforms once if not 2 or 3 times in the last 10 years! Now, Toyota's Entune system which currently is now available in 95% of all models and was launched in the last year HAS WAY MORE FUNTIONALITY THAN FORD'S MY-TOUCH and yet hasnt faltered the slightest bit in reliability but if thats what makes you sleep better than so be it.

Its also funny Jeff that Toyota's Camry you know the most sold sedan in america is ALL NEW from top to bottom for 2012 and was THE FIRST CAR with Toyota's Entune system to boot! still not a single hiccup, despite the fact that the entire chassis, the complete design of the front and rear suspension, all of the aerodynamics of the car ect. are all completely different than the previous model year. Toyota simply spends more time on research and development and dont have the problems that other manufacturers have. so by your description then Toyota's entune system should catapult Toyota's reliability to the bottom but it didnt, point proven.

So, if a person doesn't understand something, it's a problem. Check. It's held against the manufacturer if they don't know how to read or ask their salesperson? Some things will have problems, some things work as intended, but people don't know how to work them.

I bought a Dakota, and the first week or so I had it, while working 7 days a week I really didn't even have much time to read the manual. But it struck me as being odd that it was in 3rd gear while going down a hill, it would not go to the top gear. Come to find out, they programmed it that way so it was not lugging a cold engine. Didn't make sense to me, as I wasn't worried about it lugging since I was going down a hill. But there it was in the owners manual, and I might have been one off those people bitching in 2008 about it, but I read up and asked around instead.

Consumer reports is the kind that will say Ram 1500 has a big turning circle, well gee Wally, the Ford F-150 takes alot more space, they didn't know that, that is fact criterea. But they don't go comparing each other truck very accurately. Instead they say an Avalanche is a high scoring truck, and bitch cause the other full sizers don't have agility, but the little Ridgeline does! Damn, can't do much work with a Ridgeline, and 5000 pounds is the tip of the iceberg for half ton towing. So they compare a 122" wheelbase Honda and a 130" Avalanche to a bunch of 140 plus inch wheelbase trucks, they just don't compare apples to apples.

hemi lol
So your telling us the corolla and taco have been completely redesigned 2 or 3 times in the past 10 years? That's a laugh. And congrats to Toyota for finally waking up and offering a multimedia system 5 years after ford launched sync.

@hemilol - Did I say the Toyota platforms were 10 years old? I said that most of their vehicles were unchanged. I also said that most of their products were a bit stale (on another thread).
That didn't stop my wife and I from buying one. Our Sienna isn't much different than the new ones. I've looked at the new ones.
It is a reliable vehicle. Not much else to say about it.
How up to date is the Tundra or Tacoma?
Camry all new? really?
I like Toyota products but how can you argue that a facelift and some tweeks constitutes all new?
"All new" is the most bastardized phrase in the auto industry.

Yes, I do agree that Ford's MyTouch is a disaster. I haven't used it but that seems to be the common consensus. Microsoft is great at marketing and poor at executing a reliable product. Ford should of though of that when partnering with them.
A "new product" has always been an excuse for manufacturer's to crank out products that have a drop in quality and reliability. Well, at least the domestics are guilty of that fact.

I hope that this is not a sign that Ford is slipping back into the Detroit way of doing things - cranking out junk and expecting the public to buy it. Chrysler and GMC are just as guilty.
I suspect that the Goat Herders will cut and paste my comment all over the place. Despite what the Goat Herder's think, when it is time to replace my Ford truck and our Sienna, I will look at all of the factors and buy what I think is the best product. If it has 3 overlapping ovals on the badge, a blue oval, a bowtie, or a goatshead on it - that will not carry much weight.

@ porter

Yeah, for the Tacoma was done once completely in 05, with many electronic and safety changes in 09 and refaced in 2012. the corolla was completely changed in 2003 and then again completely in 2009 and refaced with many electronic changes for 2012 and more for 2013 and a complete change coming next year for 2014. Toyota's multimedia system did all but one or 2 things that the crappy sync system did when sync was launched. now the Entune system makes sync look stupid in more ways than one....... OH, and might i add no third party source blasts entune as being hard to use like the sync system...

BTW.
1. Yaris was done in 07 and now 2012
2. corolla / matrix 2003 and 2009
3. camry 2002, 2007, 2012
4.rav 4 2002, 2006, 2014 coming soon
5. highlander 2008 and 2014 coming soon
6. 4 runner 2003, 2010, reface coming soon
7. tacoma 2005
8. land cruiser 2008
9. sequoia 2008
10. tundra 2007, 2014 coming soon
11. avalon 2005, 2011, 2013 coming soon
12. prius 2004, 2010
13. sienna 2004, 2012
those are all MAJOR redesigns and this list would grow by 10 fold if i included all the minor changes and electronic upgrades. Toyota's ENTIRE lineup has safety features that you simply CANNOT GET ON ANY TRIM OF ANY MODEL of most other manufacturers and in many cases you cannot get them at all anywhere else.

PS. since you used ford, may i remind you that after keeping the same crap 5.4 for 12 years they raised the towing capacity 20 times many of which they changed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Thanks i like Toyota's HONEST APPROACH much better than Ford's FALSE ADVERTISEMENT anytime, anyplace, anywhere. I should ALSO remind you that the ecojoke is the reason ford CANT use the SAE towing and hauling method to rate their overrated crap boxes! 11,300lbs of towing HA HA HA thats why during a davis dam run with max towing only 25% of the way through the turbos overheat and SHUT DOWN and the puny truck cant hold 40mph after that! Meanwhile at max capacity the Tundra can run the same hill at 80mph..........

@ lou

I should have disconnected your name from that post as i didnt want to direct all that toward you........

However, the new 2012 sienna shares NOTHING with your sienna other than the 3.5 engine and safety items. It is completely different in every way shape and form.... it is simply silly that you would think otherwise unless you really havent looked at it.

Secondly, last time i checked the Tacoma has literally caused everyone to drop out of the small / midsized truck race. Still holds its value better than EVERY truck built bar none. why would they change it?

third, Last time i checked the Tundra is the ONLY truck SAE J2807 certified and if any other truck maker thought they had a chance against it they would rate them the same way. the 5 year old Tundra design STILL has Dozens of design characteristics that belittle their competition. so what needs changed other than people need to stop watching commercials and learn about trucks.

and finally, YES the camry SHARES NOTHING with the previous gen except engine and transmissions. I'm sorry you havent looked at it close enough to see a difference and Toyota hasnt made a bunch of commercials so that everyone knows how much has changed but the WHOLE CAR is different. The Chassis, the front and rear suspension, the body, the dash, the safety systems, the cosmetics in and out, the radio's and amplifiers, the wheel choices, the shape and coefficient of drag (which i might add is LOWER than a Corvette, camry .27 and vette is .286), EVERYTHING about the car is different and i really expect more from YOU that you would be able to decipher the difference between them. just because the door openings are similar looking from 10 feet doesnt mean they are alike!

@Hemilol - Ford is panned for gradual updates to their trucks and the use of "all new" but when Toyota does it, it is okay? If Ford is guilty of false advertising so is Toyota, GMC, Chrysler, and the rest of them. There have been changes over the years that have allowed Ford to upgrade tow ratings. I do agree that the magic spring dust routine is stupid. Toyota did the right thing with the Tundra by going with the SAE tow ratings. The problem is that the Tundra is the one with the credibility gap not Ford (despite the overly generous tow ratings). Accepting J2807 was an attempt to gain some credibility. A large number of guys do not see them as a viable truck option. I do not think that way, but that is how it is.

@ lou

PS Toyota's Entune system IS microsoft! the search engine is even Bing but there are no problems so apparently its Ford not Microsoft's problem.

@ lou

credibility gap by who? people who are uniformed only, not people who study them and know better. Toyota has never been guilty of false advertisement. Further credibility by JD Power has named the Tundra THE MOST DEPENDABLE FULL SIZE TRUCK 7 YEARS IN A ROW!! so how is there a credibility issue other than some less informed people who claim there truck is better because their daddy had one. i should have seperated the 5.4 with the redesign in 04. the newest f150 is sheet metal from the 04 to 08 model. they changed engines yes and some electronics and lights bed, but the doors and frame ect. are just the same as 04. My point is Toyota has NEVER changed its towing ratings overnight with ZERO mechanical changes just to "one up" someone and in my book loses ALL credibility by doing such a dishonest thing. Now Ford is simply a joke to me because of the marketing lies they have created over the past decade.

@HemiLOL - after you made your post, I looked up what some e-zines were saying about the Camry. They didn't use the term all new. I haven't looked closely at the 2012 Sienna. I've looked at a few 2011's. Perhaps looks are deceiving.
I wouldn't go so far to say that Tacoma killed the competition.
A while back someone posted a great link to a story about CAFE standards. They give larger vehicles based on truck platforms and full sized trucks a huge advantage. A stationwagon like vehicle has to meet tougher standards than an SUV of the same size. A small truck has to meet tougher standards than a full sized truck. It is easier for Ford to meet CAFE rules with an F150 than the global Ranger. Same goes for any company.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/how-cafe-killed-compact-trucks-and-station-wagons/
CAFE killed the competition not the Tacoma.
It gets lonely being a Toyota fan on this site.
Thanks for the information.

although i'm very aware of the cafe standards one should ask themselves how can one company do it and others not? when you get right down to it Toyota vehicles simply are more fuel efficient. Matter of fact if you check Consumer reports OWN testings the Tundra with the 5.7 returns average fuel economy of 16 MPG Funny how that TIES the ford ecoboost 3.5 with 3.55 gears at 16 MPG. these are actual real world tests from long term demos.

@HemiLol - like I said, a credibility gap. That occurs regardless how truthful Toyota is. I agree that the brand loyal types, and the misplaced patrot types pan the Tundra for some lame reasons. As you've seen time and time again, the brand loyal/buy American (even if it is American in badge only) types will not consider anything else. Problem is - there sure seems to be a lot of those guys around. Those types probably sway a lot of buyers.
I do agree that the oneupmanship tow/haul stuff is nonsense. All the domestics do it. That is why I wouldn't tow a max load with any of them.

@ lou

its good that some people realize that its stupid for them to do the oneupmanship, its ashame that its not illegal for them to do so.

I think you will find less brand loyalist goin forward in the future based on the ignorant ideas that have been the reasoning thus far for some people. I think being apart of this site we see more of the blind brand loyalists than maybe you would see on other sites. I have no problem with someone liking their truck because they like it. however, people dont need to type false claims about their truck to somehow make them feel better about their purchase. And if someone doesnt actually study up they would watch that commercial from ford running that washboard road and actually believe that the test wasnt ford propaganda.

No hemi lol its just DUMB PEOPLE that don't know crap about ELECTRONICS. its that simple . I have no trouble with MYTOUCH in my truck . nothing is perfect though ....

@"hemi lol" lol!: the 2009 Ford is not the very same as the 2008, thats the reason why it was crash tested again in 09. They must have been working on the doors or the roof being stronger, cause the frontel collision went BACKWARDS in 2009, now accrding to IIHS they have "acceptables" where the 2008 had all "goods" .

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/datatables.aspx?class=70&type=f

Funny thing the Tundra is so overbuilt. But in the $30K shootout it was amongst the Chevy with most distance added to braking distance after 1000 pounds was added to the bed. So, it's great when empty, but according to that test, it's a fail.
What's the size of those little lugnuts again? Smallest in the 1/2 ton industry.

Normally I would make fun of the ford girls but this is Consumer Reports, the most unreliable, jaded, poorly researched phony rag out there. Easy enough to see, toyjunka recalls 20 million vehicles this year alone and CR gives it a top rating...CR = worthless rag.

@ HEMI V8
Chrysler is replacing the cylinder heads on certain Pentastar V6 engines with "more robust" parts. The automaker hasn't detailed the problem behind the replacement, but says that there were around 1,300 vehicles across the country over the past few weeks waiting for replacement parts.

A shortage of replacement cylinder heads left many owners out of their vehicle for a week or more with Chrysler paying for rentals in the interim. The company says it is receiving as many as 500 requests per week for the new cylinder heads. In response, Chrysler supplied its service network with around 3,000 new parts to fill the orders. New Pentastar engines are being built with the revised heads.
MY FORD TOUCH,,,,MINOR PROBLEM!!!! LOL!!!

I saw good example of the MFT "problems" on a Ford truck forum this week. A guy posted complaining about how bad MFT was. Then he ended his post asking for help as he didn't know how to post a picture of his new truck. Someone followed up pointing to his question as the likely cause of his MFT woes. While not the problem in every case, I would say most problems are from people not understanding the new technology, and the fact they are too lazy to learn how to use it.
I read a LOT of people post about problems with Sync and how it doesn't "understand" their commands. But when asked, the vast majority of these people never took the time to set up the program or go through the voice learning feature. You can't fix lazy.

GM earns 1.48 billion not bad for everyone hateing on them.

I too have issues with my recently purchased 2013 F150 with the Sync system. It turns out the 'open source' compatibility does not include the ability to handle Ogg Vorbis music files. Not everyone is not using Windows or Apple OS. I asked Ford about this and got a lame answer 'that unfortunately Sync does not support Ogg format'. Unfortunately? I, like many others, have spent time assembling a large music collection on USB and can not enjoy it in the new vehicle.

One should not have to go to the trouble of converting music
files when a simple software upgrade would make things right.

So, those of you who are using an alternative (Linux) OS to MS or Apple may want to look elsewhere when considering a new vehicle with infotainment systems. My two cents

ah I see they finaly got my survey in the mail! nice job Ford!

Consumers is well known to be biased.Even some of there tests show real bias !

There results are secret,not telling people how many of each model they get results from.

I own a trouble free 125,000 mile '09 F-250 (just did wheel bearings as dirty roads and only repair I needed)my wife had a 2006 Toyota minivan that we bought new and we put more money into that than any domestic vehicle we have ever owned,even back in the 80's when I bought 20 year old junkers those cars ran and ran never needed major repairs.
Our bought used 2002 Dodge Caravan we bought with 20,000 miles,it was t-boned in late 2005 then we bought a new Toyota Sienna and the darn thing had just about everything replaced and only 70,000 miles ! I wanted a new Caravan since we put on 40,000 of trouble free driving,nothing went only the tires needed replacing,but my wife's friend's husband works at a Toyota dealership and "brainwashed her" you know you just have to listen to the wife.So in May we got rid of the Sienna and bought a new Grand Caravan so far problem free,only been to the dealer to get a free oil change ,and my wife loves it.Her friends husband thinks the problems we had with the Toyota are nothing,just normal unreal,I could list all the repairs and items that went wrong but you kool aid drinkers wouldnt believe me (I just threw out every repair bill/warranty work file away too bad)

Some insight below see link on how consumers works,and I have owned Chrysler's,Ford's,GM's and 1 Toyota (never again)

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

@ ecotorque,

Ford just had a recall for fires in the Escape just a month ago and power loss and brakes 525,000 recalled !! And the Fiesta was also just recalled.

F-150 Eco-Boost has a oil leak problem,a bolt in the engine block behind the trans leaks. Called the Ford tech line and found out the hole should have been a blind hole not all the way into the block so now the are replacing my engine which are all on national backorder. Seems like Ford is trying to cover up this without a recall ,yes you need a new block.

The Chrysler 3.6 recall is from 2011 and the problem no longer existsts.

Remember Ford has had major problems with the spark plug stuck in head.

Toyota has the most major problems as does Honda lol !

I have owned the 3 domestics and they were all good trucks. I bought a GE frig back in the 80's and Cosumer Reports said it was the most trouble. In fact, they said almost 20% needed warranty repairs the 1st year. I raised 3 kids and they had the door open more than it was closed, so it ran a lot. It finally crapped out after 15 years without a service call. My point is buy what you like because it's one big crap shoot. Somebody is going to get a bad one and most of us will have no problems.

A lot of childish people on this site. Anybody with a brain knows the Ford trucks are near the best quality if not the very best. This coming from an open-minded person who bought a newer Ram.

I dont care i will always buy a new Ford truck no matter what.

I use Consumer reports as a tool, I read other magazines reviews. But in all reality the numbers don't lie as far as reliabilty.. What I don't like them for is when reviewing vehicles for usefullness and drivabily their not good at. But numbers don't lie and it seems the people complaining are the people who drive Fords. Had CR rated Fords highly the same people would be praising CR.