PUTC Survey Calls For Higher Standards

High-Standards II

We've recently finished conducting a reader survey at PickupTrucks.com where we asked about what we're doing right and what we need to improve. For those who took the time to participate in the survey, your opinions and time were very much appreciated.

For those who missed the opportunity, we can say this is likely to be something we'll continue on a regular basis, so keep your eyes open for the next one (usually identified in a small box at the top of the homepage) and you'll once again be able to pass along your ideas. 

The results were quite instructive and have let us know we need to do a better job of monitoring and enforcing our site standards. We will make the statement now that we plan to work harder to apply those standards, meaning if we see users making inappropriate comments (meaning, those comments do not contribute to the specific on-topic conversation), than those posts and the computer's IP addresses from which they came will be removed from the community.

Likewise, if we find that a single IP address is posting comments under multiple names in order to promote questionable points of view, we will also take action.  

We take great pride in the quality of our readership, especially most of those who respond to the many news sections postings we provide (and we're told the manufacturers watch them closely as well), and as a result are going to be more dilligent about separating the spoiled apples that can give a this pickup community meeting area a bitter aftertaste.

 

Comments

@Lou
I suppose I let the "fanboism" get to me.

Some of the guys though have to realise the US isn't the centre of the universe. Most of the articles and comments are US centric, so most of my comments will be going in that direction.

If you guys look at what myself and even Robert Ryan write we consider your mid sizer as non-competitive against our mid sizers.

The closest we have to compare to your 1/2 ton trucks is our mid sizers. So, comparisons are inevitable.

Whether you like it or not the mid sizer are global for a good reason, as they are quite competitive and work well. If not US style 1/2 ton pickups would be everywhere. Think about it.

@TRX4 Tom
When you first started writing you did well. But from my observations the quality of your input degraded.

You then started challenging with asides that could have been considered derogatroy. If you try and condensend, your tone will change and arrogance will set in and others will hammer you. Fact of life.

Also read up on Chrysler, and how it came to be where it is today. Chrysler is very lucky to be around. Fiat has done wonders to the Chrysler brand.

You have the apptitude to become very succesful at debating, but don't let your emotions get in the way. It clouds your judgement.

@zveria
Well, what can I say.

@Lou
The first sentence in the above post was directed at you.

I should have annotated from the second sentence on towards the "general" readership.

Al, I know Chrysler's history.

Do you think Fiat is totally responsable? Their money is making a big differance, and Sergio's leadership too.

But alot of the ideas where already there, long before Fiat arrived, they didn't have the cash to do what they wanted, and to take as much risk.

Right now besides the trucks, the Dart is one of their biggest sellers, which is a rebodied car from Fiat, with either a Chrysler World Engine or Fiat Multiair.

The Avenger is selling alot, and was actually built a long time ago, like 2008 or so. And it still gets an acceptable on the newest IIHS crash test, and a good on every other test. Good enough for being a top safety pick, as the Chrysler 200 is, which was designed before Fiat.
The Caravans have been leading van sales for years, and the Chrysler Town and Country sells pretty good as well.

Current Chargers were designed before Fiat came along. Same with 300s. They have started seeing more sales due to the 3.6 (designed by Chrysler, not Mercedes or Fiat) engine and the eight speed, and the Clallenger would be selling more if they had the 8 speed as well.

Took them some weeding out the non sellers, like the Nitro, and although I liked the Magnum, it wasn't selling too great.

The Caliber made up for the Neon's lack of being able to handle a wreck, but it was poor on mileage.

And you don't say anything derogatory? ( I spelled it right)
Really Al? You really say that? Maybe YOU should open your eyes. I think you get kinda upset and get your emotions in the way. After all, looks like you are in charge of some people, and you don't take to well to people pointing out the negatives of some of your ideas. Sounds like you can't imagine any views but your own.

@Big Al from Oz
Don't be sorry. I am not. I want you to come over here to cold -40C North Alberta with your Mazda diesel and use it for one winter season with thousand of cold starts so you can learn hard way, that global doesn't work for us and you'll be lucky to get back home before you freeze, because your engine is so small and efficient, doesn't produce any heat needed in here at all.
I am offering accommodation for free, just so you open your mind and start think really globally, not locally.
And Canada is huge. You can pick a spot.

@zviera - engine size does effect heat but you must look at the comment you made.

Indirectly and quite by accident, you've pointed out that the "little" diesel in Big Al's "little" truck is more efficient than what "we" (collective North American "we") have in our gas pickups.
What is heat in the context of an internal combustion engine?
Heat is really what runs our engines. Gases catch fire, gases heat up, and when they do, they expand. That in turn pushes those pistons down.
Our gas engines are very inefficient. Roughly 20% to 30% of that heat is used to propel a vehicle. 30% is probably what you'd see out of something like the Ecoboost. A normally aspirated engine like the 5.7 hemi is most likely under 20%.
What happens to all of the remaining heat?
Great for keeping your toes warm in the cab of your truck in -35C weather. All that wasted energy goes into the cooling system which in turn flows through the heater of our trucks.
On the other side of the coin, a "little" diesel like Big Al's runs around 40% efficient. That equals to more heat going to turning the wheels as opposed to running the cab heater.

1,000's of cold starts?
How many times a day do you start your truck?
I kinda think that Big Al's "little" truck would hold up just fine. The "third world" and other under developed parts of the world (places our 1/2 tons will never see) is also part of the marketing area for those "little" pickups.

@Lou
No. There are no accidents in my comments.
I know exactly how efficient are diesel and gasoline engines. I hav written that small diesels are more efficient than large gasoline one. What's your problem.
They don't work for me in here. 50 cold starts a day easy. I am going doors to doors providing service for cnc machines. I wanna see your small diesel start at-40C, heat it up, turn it off for an 30 minutes cool it down and start it again. It won't even get worm and you would need to use independent diesel heater. There it goes your efciciency and extra money. That diesel engine won't last 4 years. 1 cold start is 40 warm ones. Battery gone quickly. You would need to idle which will kill your turbo quickly with a sod.
Thank you very much for that, but no . It will work for you, but not for me.

@zviera - if you start your truck 40 times a day and a diesel will not work then you should of been more specific as to your usage. Paint a better picture of what you expect your own truck to do and it will make it easier for us to understand where you are coming from.
For 99% of the population, a small diesel would be more efficient.
Now you are changing your post from it doesn't work for "us" to it doesn't work for "me".
Which one is it?
I answered your post based on the " that global doesn't work for us" comment.
Who is us?
You and a few collegues?
I take "us" as meaning North America versus lonely Big Al in the remote tracts of Kangaroo land.

@Lou
See , that's the thing. I have written exactly same comment almost a year ago. You just talk and talk and nobody listen. Should I go to Australian forum and push to everyone over and over again to buy HEMI and full size truck. No, I don't do that. Why? Because I am smart enough to know, that for everybody works something different.
Unfortunately, not everyone is like that. That's why some of you keep posting same stuff over and over again, because you don't know different.
I didn't write as. Where did you get that?

where did I get that?
Your post dated "zviera | Feb 4, 2013 3:00:22 PM"

Read your post.
I'll save you the trouble of having to scroll up.

@Big Al from Oz
Don't be sorry. I am not. I want you to come over here to cold -40C North Alberta with your Mazda diesel and use it for one winter season with thousand of cold starts so you can learn hard way, that global doesn't work for us and you'll be lucky to get back home before you freeze, because your engine is so small and efficient, doesn't produce any heat needed in here at all.
I am offering accommodation for free, just so you open your mind and start think really globally, not locally.
And Canada is huge. You can pick a spot.

"global doesn't work for us"

Smack dab in the middle of your post.

........................................................................................

I do suspect that there are other parts of the world that experience similar weather to us in the "Great White North" of Bob and Doug MacKenzie.

Global is well, global.

How about the "Great White South"???
I think that the South Pole is supposed to be colder than the North Pole.

Odd how one can get a diesel Amarok in South America but not North America considering the fact that Amarok is Inuit (Aboriginal tribes of the Arctic) for Wolf.

I wonder if they took that into consideration when naming a "little" diesel truck that isn't supposed to be able to perform in cold weather?

@zveria
I posted a link about the increase of diesels in Sweden. In comparison to other Euro countries the Swedes didn't take up diesel with the same zest.

Sweden is quite cold, probably as cold as Alberta. Diesel used to perform poorly, it used to wax up, we had that problem in cold weather in Australia 30 years ago or so.

All fuels are altered to suit enviromental changes as they occur.

The new diesel fuels are different also.

Also, due to the mass of the diesel engine in comparison to a gas engine the engine will retain the heat longer. If you are going through 40 start
/stop cycles in a day the diesel will be quite effective.

Diesels do work well in the NW Territories, I watched an interesting show called "Ice Truckers" or something similar. Where they left Yellowknife and transport goods across frozen lakes etc to the mines.

The way I see it is eventually diesel or compression ignition engines will prevail. They are achieving near on the same fuel economy figures as hybrids and can give close to gas engine performance. EVs are currently not viable because of the cost and subsidies. EVs will always be a niche vehicle, at least for the forseeable future.

Really, sit down an digest what I write, it isn't anti US, I just look at the problems and use a more systematic (methodical) approach when correlating that information.

Don't just read one article, read other related articles from differing opinions and draw your own conclusion.

It would be nice if everyone can have mega powered pickups. But those days are numbered.

@TRX4 Tom
Then what comment did I make that wasn't true about Chrysler?

Mark Williams,

I think there should be a limit on the number of posts one person can make on a topic. It is no different than the spam and worse. When one person tries to intimidate and take over and makes over a half dozen posts on the same blog post it is overkill and deters others from joining in. There has to be a way to limit posts. Thank you.

@Ken - then how can one engage in a debate/discussion over a specific topic if there are limits on the number of posts?

If the posts are spam or personal in attack, then I agree. The site administrator has already been deleting posts as pointed out by @zviera.


Ok people, you wanna talk, lets talk then.
@Lou

I didn't write that " global doesn't work for us"
for you Lou, I would remember that. It was answer to Bigal. Do you answer on behalf of Bigal? You shouldn't, if you are not the same person. I can't keep track of what you are answering on behalf when you don't mention anything.
The climate of South America is of temperate Mediterranean type. Nothin crazy cold, because the ocean everywhere you look. That's one of the reason, we don't have Amarok in here.
We have a Jetta. The first ones got destroyed , roughly 6 years ago, because of too much sulfur in the diesel fuel. We don't have this problem anymore, because of new standards took place for ultra low sulfur.
@Bigal
You make so many assumptions, but mostly all of them wrong. Like this one.
"Also, due to the mass of the diesel engine in comparison to a gas engine the engine will retain the heat longer. If you are going through 40 start
/stop cycles in a day the diesel will be quite effective.
Your small diesel engine has less mass than mine HEMI. HEMI heats up faster then your small diesel and cools longer. Let me tell you I have a Cast Iron Block.
Your diesel wouldn't even get to the 50% of working temperature. It'll make it 45C max at -40C without partial covering of front grill, when moving. People run Webasto or Espar independet diesel heatesr at 6.7 Cummins or other trucks in here. Your efficiency goes rapidly down, your battery loses capacity and drains quickly, when engine is off.
My HEMI gets to the 75C max at -30C affter 45minutes of driving. If you commute just 15 20 minutes every day, you will start to hate your diesel very quickly, because it will get little worm when you'll get at your destination and have to get out of your UTE.
All vehicles in Canada comes with plug in engine electric heater installed. Most of them has remote start to heat up engine before use.
Some of them has extra magnetic oil pan electric heater.
Diesel engine can't idle for very long time, but I see that all the time when sleeping at Travellodge in different city. They run them all night long. Sod will get stuck at your turbo, put it out of the balance and it can get destroyed quickly next morning. Diesels run everywhere, even at North West Territories, but they run constantly or with diesel heaters installed to the cooling system directly, eating diesel fuel and batteries. There goes your efficiency.
Completely useless in here, if I can chose the engine and when you add up
-cost of the diesel engine
-diesel fuel price
-extra heater price
-extra fuel consumption by heater
-bigger battery needed and won't last as long as gasoline engine one
-you can't idle engine without consequences and big check because of turbo
you will forget about small diesel in here.
Why do you think I have a heated steering wheel and seats ? Just for fun? Try to touch the steering wheel in -40 with your hands or glows.
Oh I forgot, you don't have this kind of experience.
I would buy a 6.7 Cummins, if I had a needs to pull my house, but I would definitely install independent Webasto diesel heater then. But I am OK with my RAM 1500 truck. I can pull my light aluminum trailer with motorcycle on my bed, when going for holidays with my family.
You should really open your mind and listen what other people are trying to say . But you are to much focused at your UTE with diesel engine and keep talking over and over how great it is and it must work for everybody globally. No it doesn't. It works for you, but doesn't work for me and many other people in NA.
Be nice and respect another people decisions and they will be nice to you and will respect yours.

@TRX 4 Tom
I have been all around the US(including Hawaii) and your use of 1/2 tons as work vehicles is FAR Less than what Utes and Midsize Pickups do here or in New Zealand another place I have been around extensively.
@zviera It gets mighty cold in Russia and every truck and SUV on the road is a diesel.


@zviera - public domain, any post can be answered by anybody.
Diesel engines do not work for everyone, that is why gas engines are an option or vise versa. John Q Public who drives a short distance to work every day would most likely be better served by a gasser. In HD trucks, diesels tend to be better for heavy work, or work where the chassis will not be beat to death so one can regain the extra purchase cost. The problem is that we don't yet have mid sized diesels in North America to compare to our 1/2 ton engines. I can see a viable market for diesels in the 3 - 4 litre range for 1/2 tons.
For most people, a global truck would be sufficient. Truth be told, most people do not need a pickup regardless of size or engine configuration.

I've know guys with ancient Rabbit diesels and they just keep on running. Most of the loggers I know run diesel pickups unless they are part of a fleet. Companies won't spend the extra money.
I've driven both gas and diesel paramedic units and I've never been the victim of a turbo failure. I've never seen a fire truck or rescue truck die of a turbo failure either. They idle for long periods and also go through frequent stop/start cycles.

"thousand of cold starts so you can learn hard way, that global doesn't work for us and "

"That global doesn't work for us.........................."

Why are you denying that comment?

Not everyone starts their truck 40 times per day.
Is one start/stop per service call?
I'm curious as to what kind of shift you work to get 40 service calls a day?
Where do you work?
Edmonton is big enough, I can't see places like Grand Prairie, High Prairie etc being that busy.
Maybe Fort Mac?

Your personal use is extreme - 40 starts per day?

And a diesel of any kind doesn't work for you..............
so that warrants deriding small global diesel pickups especially since one of their proponents lives in a warm climate and happens to be someone who's challenged your opinion?
and/or you don't like him and/or his opinion?

Why don't we all start fresh.

We all have our own experiences and opinions. I do believe that the trolls have made this site too much of a full contact, no holds barred fight club. That puts everyone on edge and spoiling for a scrap. I'm just as guilty as the next guy for that.

A difference of opinion does not neccesarily mean disrespect.

You raise some interesting points that are worth exploring.

@TRX4 Tom
"It's not whether or not you would take it as a complimant if I called you Robert Ryan, but would it be right for me to call you Robert Ryan because you both have similar views of global trucks?"


zveria made that comment????????????????

How many IPs addresses are you using?

@TRX4 Tom
I do apologise it was you who made that statement.

You have to realise Tom that you do write with a confrontational tone. Zveria use exactly the same tone and arguments.

Yes, you keep on alluding to my education, which I'm glad I have.

But, being in the US, like Canada and Australia you have many opportunities to advance. Its up to you to make it happen like I did when I was 29 to try and get in further ahead.

It takes commitment. Anything worthwhile in life takes time.

Trying to ridicule a person because of education is quite silly.

Yourself, stating that you race cars should have a good understanding on engineering concepts as this will definitely make you more competitive.

All race teams require engineers to win. A small player like yourself will gain if you can learn more.

I know you have a vague idea on gearing, but read and learn about gearing. The same goes for engine technology, its not just brand names and dimensions.

Read up on physics. Simple physics is great, did you know there are only 2 types of machines, an inclined plane and a lever. Every mechanical device we have can only incorporate those two simple machines.

The world is your oyster irrespective of age. I really do hope you can comprehend what I wrote.

Lou is correct we are becoming hot under the collar.


@Robert ryen
No, that's not completely right statement. Who ever has money, drives gasoline engine in SUV. Mostly AMG. They don' really have a truck market in there at all .Rest of the poor people drives diesels mostly because it's either used one imported from Western Europe or small car or Van because diesel fuel has same or less price than gasoline. Old Military vehicles like ZIL where gasine engines. I would consider diesel engine, if price for fuel is same or less than gasoline and if engine is just $1500 more. Same will work for US market.
@Lou
Where is that Rabbit running please. Florida? My friend has a used one sitting on his field. You can pick it up for free. Another friend bought new diesel Jetta 6 years ago. He got rid of it after first winter.
From now on, I am going say for me instead of for us and for Alberta instead of NA so people don't get confused. I would appreciate , if you do the same, so we all know, we compare something we really can't.
HEMI engine is best decision in 1500 truck for me in Alberta.
For all of you considering small diesel in 1/2 ton truck, you will have a chance very soon with 3L VM MOTORI and 8 speed trany in the RAM.
But we all know, not many NA born people will like to pay premium for diesel engine and diesel fuel up front especially for 1/2 ton. Pricing is all.

@zviera - that Rabbit would be Northern BC. Similar weather to Northern Alberta. More windy once one gets into the prairie portions of Alberta. The one fellow I'm thinking of uses it just to go back and forth to work. A neighbour's friend has a newer Jetta. No issues with that one either.
Do Albertans start/stop their vehicles 40 times a day since "they" are the "us" you are refering to? ;)
You are correct that a small diesel in a 1/2 ton will be very price sensitive. A 3, 000 dollar premium will probably be the max since most competitive premium gas engines are usually 1/2 that price depending on the model. We will see the Transit van with diesel before the Ram 1500 with diesel. I thought that there was a Fiat diesel in the Cherokee or was that a Mercedes BlueTec?

I have been reading the news on this site since about 2004. I have bben a member for about 5 years or so. I have not seen the survey, but I have something of mention...

I am an avid chevy only fan, but I am fair towards others about other brands and thoughts. I don't post often, but I read.

Lately, the comments on the news feeds have been terrible, therefor I have quit reading them. I am happy action is being taken towoards the bashers and haters. I bought a vehicle based solely on information from this site! Times change, I understand that, but things have gotten rediculious! Keep the good and remove the bad, same as the big 3 including the imports.

Hopefully some good comes from this!

Thanks mark from ford! I will always stick up for chevy more than others, but accept new ideas from othere makes and use them in my vehicles via aftermarket!

@LOU
Northern BC , do you mean Kelowna with temp around 0C ? Anywhere in BC is warmer than in Alberta.
Yes, some Albertans start/stop their vehicles more than 40 times a day. Especially with 3 kids and their friends going to different activities avery day.I know it's hard to believe, because BC is province of retirement and when you work hard and want to fix the machines you have to see your suppliers personally and show him what you need , because when you call them and just say I need Direct motor start star delta 3 phase 15 amps switch , nobody in NA will know what you are looking for. Don't take me wrong, I love BC Country and plan to retire there, because of mild weather and good wine.
As you might know from my last comment, I don't refer to us anymore but me , so you don't have to go through this problem of yours anymore.
It never was a Fiat. It was 4 cyl. 2.8L VM Motori in Liberty 9 years ago , just 400 pieces for Canada, sold out quickly, mostly probably in Ontario. I didn't see a one in here. And then 3.0L Mercedes diesel in Grand Cherokee I have personally tested and was very disappointed how noisy it is compared to HEMI I was driving in my Durango.
You can order new Grand Cherokee with new 6 cyl 3.0L VM Motori diesel now. This engine will make it to the RAM as well soon.

@Al, I have nothing against education, or people with higher education. But when people seem to get a "know it all" attitude because they have education, that is what I dislike. You tend to talk down on people, and sem to think your way is the only way, instead of what works for people.

As far as my understanding of gearing, I know what gears I have, and what gears I have used in the past, and what hasn't worked. But you show that you lack understanding of gears, atleast their use in the Ram, such a when you jump in and say George "knows what he is talking about" Really? Wow, he all about that Ram 3.6 needing 3.92 gears, and saying the 3.21 wouldn't work. The 3.21 gear is for somebody that won't tow very heavy. I believe it is maybe 4200 max weight, might be 4500, that a 4x2 Ram V-6 is rated at. So, a light weight trailer. And, if a person wants toreally tow heavier, he or she can get the 3.55 gears, which like I say, have a much better ratio with 7 (like I keep having to point out to you and George, Rams lock out top gear in tow haul) closer gears then the Ford would even if it had the 4.10s he was SO INSISTENT it needs. Top gear in that Ford would be a 2.83, while the Ram would be a 2.98. With the gear that Ford DOESN'T offer. It is a 2.57 however with the gear THEY DO offer behind the 3.7 V-6. Then there is torque convertor unlock, one more way to put the engine in the proper rpm band. But George go clouded up trying to compare the 3.6 liter to the 4.7 and 5.7, both of which are rated to tow much higher, with a differant transmission, as all the V-8 8 speed ratings aren't out yet.

I really don't think you understand auto trans gearing, and your education doesn't bail you out. You drive around in a diesel (lower rpm power generally) with a manual (nothing wrong with that, wish we had more of them in the states) They aren't the same. Atleast I can say I have the type of vehicle I talk about, and I use it for trailer tow (hauled a 92 K2500 Chevy to the scrapyard Friday) and I use it for carrying fairly heavy items. (Like I picked up up a 1999 5.9 Dodge Magnum last night, about 550-600 pounds, considering the rest of the parts I also got. For the sake of SANDMAN 4x4 (since he talks about my truck barely having capacity,) I had a 92 GM 350 with the 4L60 4x4 auto trans behind it, and the water pump was even with the rear axle, and the rear bumper dropped 2.625 inches. That's not bad, considering it's 650 pounds or so, and if I needed to go somewhere like that, it would have been loaded more to the front. (better weight distribution)

But anyway! I use my truck! It is not an SUV! You seem impressed your Mazda has that Tremic trans, it might be tough, but then again, the word I get is it has a .50 OD top gear. It's not even close to 5th gear? Whatever it is, it's all apples and oranges. A little more using gears instead of READING up on gears, could help you.

At the level I mess with race cars, we don't have "race engineers" That's in the TV land bigger racing series, and not everybody wants to go there. I have a friend that coulda drove for Jack Roush, he did the the tests and all, had the fastest times, but he makes his living building race cars and once in awhile still races in a late model touring series, and once in awhile he races a figure eight car. (I imagine you are laughing, but if you see what tech goes into a figure eight car nowadays, you might be surprised.

They also spend far more money in those series. Look up USRA and IMCA Modifieds, IMCA pure stocks, and SCCA Solo. Figure eight nationals at the Speedrome in Indiana and Monroe Evergreen Speedway. That's more my speed. Also, no matter how much Robert Ryan will put it down cause it aint the bigtime, there are alot of smart people out there in those lower classes. Heck, you can look up Larry Phillips, from Springfield Missouri, the fact is, he could have went big time racing, but instead CHOSE to race shortracks and has about 7 Nascar weekly Racing Series Championships, as well as championships at local tracks. Mark Martin learned alot from him. So did Rusty Wallace, and......

@TRX4 Tom
Gearing is gearing, irrespecitive of where it is used. We work with gearing quite a bit.

The principles are the same in determining the ratios for an auto or manual transmissions. Its about torque and loads, transmissions are rated on the torque loads they can cope with.

Georges argument was concerning ratio spread, this is significant in a vehicle, particularly this day and age when the manufacturers have to meet specific targets in economy.

Gearing in a pickup is very much a comprise as compared to a commercial vehicle. The normal operation of a pickup would be comparable to a large car. But it is then expected to significantly increase that load when required, whether towing or carrying a load.

I don't know if you know I have had at least 8 ute/pickups in my life and the Mazda was the first manual I've owned in over 15 years. And I used to have a business and towed extensively.

I not telling you to become an engineer, but to expand your engineering knowledge, as you will be surprised at how you will fault find and design changes. You will see problems through a slightly different light, and this could make you more competitive.

@zviera - no I don't live in Kelowna. That is the Southern Interior, and I don't live anywhere remotely close to the west coast. Alberta tends to get more Arctic air courtesy of the Rockies acting as a barrier. What about those Chinooks? I don't have the luxury of those. I've lived through my share of -45 C and colder weather.
I have kids, and no, I don't start my vehicle 40 times a day. I don't know of anyone who does, even people I've known who have run delivery vans, or buckers who have to go from landing to landing to buck logs.
You didn't answer my question on how long a day you work?
I suspect your 40 stop/starts a day is hyperbole or is a Chinook wind blowing west instead of east.

@Lou
Ok , what ever makes you happy. It was 14 starts in quiet day today and my day is not over yet.The point is, It's 1200 cold starts annually.
I don't care how many times you start your engine daily. Buy whatever works for you best.
I speek for myself at this forum not behalf of anybody.
RAM 1500 wih 4x4 and AWDAuto and HEMI engine works best for me in Alberta. I wish I had an 8 speed trany , but this Chrysler 5 speed 545 RFE is most reliable one, I came across.
This is my last post at this forum. It takes to much energy and time from me for no reason.

@zviera - too bad you are leaving, once the veneer of brand bravado is removed, you actually have some good comments and information to share.
Good luck too you.

@Big Al: Ratio spread? The Ram eight speed has a heck of alot more ratio spread then any 6 speed, how much gear do you or him want for starting out?

Geez Louise, we used to have any rear gear in the 3.08 to 3.91 range in any truck back i, and then in the day, and then 2.45/2.52/2.74/2.84 first gear, now? The Ram 8 speed has 4.71. We still have 3.21 and 3.55s in the trucks that use it. Somewhat bigger tires. But making alot more power, and as George realized, the torque curve is much broader. How much gear you want?

So just because Lexus or Porshe or whoever has a wider axle spread, that makes it better? Always?? Have you ever considered some folks WANT THE GEARS TO BE SOMEWHAT CLOSE? ie, the opposite of the current Ram 545 that has 6 gears, and 2nd gear is not close to first gear at all! 3.00 to 1 first, and 1.67 second. What in the world does a Lexus need that much gear for?

See, you get wound up telling me I am talking drag race talk, when George is over here saying "need more gear spread, so it can have more then brand X" and he is spewing out rpm's at 85, like we need more rpm to tow 85? WHAT? No, we don't need to tow at 85! He got to insisting that with a 3.21 geared Ram V-6, you would tow in 5th, I believe he wrote. Well, that's all relative to speed and terrain; towing max in the mountains and not gonna see more then 55? 5th gear is fine. That's like more then 3.91 gears 1 to 1. Towing in somewhere hilly with highway speeds of 65? 6th gear, atleast with 3.21s at max, and you can always use 7th when you want. Towing in Kansas (flat) at 70? 7th gear! If he still wants to cry, well there is 3.55s there for a reason.

But his first words were the pathetic 3.6 v-6, which tells me he wants to compare it to an Ecoboost, or a Hemi, as he did.

So, booksmart, as you are, cannot replace experience. Does it mean you know it all? Ever heard or torque convertor unlock, pretty sure George didn't. Maybe you can read how Motortrend tested it towing more then Ford 3.7 in a lighter vehicle with more gear was tested on this site towing less!

George was constantly telling us "it makes X percent of the 4.7 and 5.7, blah, blah, blah" Yup, that's those V-8s with a less capable trans (less spread).....and it's RATED LESS TOO, GEORGE! Imagine that!

He just wanted to slam the Pentastar engine, that was his motive, any excuse he could.

Here you go, Al, I looked it up for you, since you probably wont.

Lets see, the Ram Crewcab with Rambox (more weight) with V-6 (269 foot pounds@4175) 8 speed AND 3.21 GEARS in the Motor Trend test pulled a 3262 pound trailer to a 18.7 @ 75.1 MPH quarter mile, and that was with 31.7" tires. That's a 4350 pound truck.

The 4760 pound REGULAR CAB (almost 600 pounds lighter!) F-150 V-6 3.7 with 3.73 gears (More!) With 30.5 tires (smaller, more gear !) with more torque, (278 foot pounds@4000rpm) pulled a 2300 pound trailer (almost 1,000 pounds less!) to a 18.56@76.45 mph. (barely quicker and faster).

Empty times: Ford 16.18 Ram 15.8.

I know there are variables. Two differant tests and locations, with differant weather and drivers; the trailer used in the PICKUPTRUCKS.com v-6 work shootout might of had alot more wind resistance.

Of course, the quarter mile tow speeds are not the only thing of importance, it would be nice to see which one shifts smoother, which one lugs the most, which one needs the most rpm, on and on. Just one way to compare the two, and we don't have much to go by yet.

But it really isn't close. If the Ford had the configuration the Ram had, and the Ram had the optional gears (the Ford is maxxed out) What if a Ford buyer doesn't want the smaller low pro tires? What if they both had the same trailer weight, it would be not even close.

George complained and complained. The 3.21 geared Ram Motor Trend had was rated to tow 4350 pounds. Or maybe 3600 with 4 people in it. If that's not good enough, he can get the 3.55s, which will tow about 5800 max, in that configuration.

But I doubt he cares,he just wanted to talk smack.

The funny thing in this case is that Ford cranked up their tow rating on the V-6, with no changes, just for bragging rights, I guess Ford thinks people are ignorant, and they believe the Ford would tow the max weight as good or better then the Ram would tow the max weight.

You always say Al, the same people that rate your truck's towing and payload also do the limitations on mine. Not quite true, as Ford rated yours......and they rate them as high as they can, while my 1500 is rated conservatively.

You also seem to want to compare your truck just because it is rated around 2200 payload, to a HD three quarter ton from the big three. Once again Al, not even close to the same, and if they would ever test them side by side, we could see how your overated trucks come out.

@TRX4 Tom
I don't really think a measure on a vehicles performance is a quarter mile run. Especially towing or hauling. More importantly is how the engines perform under a more normal throttle setting. How long will a pickup last driving like that.

Ford did re-rate the global Ranger's tow capacity, but they actually made very minor changes to the chassis to handle the extra 150kg.

My ute is still rated at 3 350kg for towing still, but I would suspect since it has a Ford chassis it will change on future BT50s.

As for the way manufacturers rate towing, unless your Rams are a couple of thousand of pounds less than Ford, they are all very similar.

Also, if a vehicle has a higher tow rating doesn't mean it will be a better tow vehicle. Many on this site use HP, torque, tow capacity to judge a vehicle. But as I have written once before this is done because most can't comprehend vehicles.

Bigger, faster, cheaper or what ever else doesn't constitute a better product.

I haven't actually made a comparison with an HD against our trucks, they are two really different vehicles. But I did state the payloads can be over 3 000lbs and are comparable to an HD. I have also stated that we don't have HDs and some of the work a mid sizer does, you use your HDs for.

So, please Tom don't "spin" an argument, you do this often and you not only have put me off side but others in doing this.

@Lou
Good luck to you too.

Al, I didn't say towing was the only way to judge a truck, nor did I say that because a vehicle tows quicker then another, that is the only thing that matters. You don't read too well. But WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT was towing and gears. Who is trying to spin something, Al? the Pentastar pulled it strong, but a better test would be to put the same weight on both trucks trailers, and drive them thru all sorts of situations. City, hills, flatlands, curves, braking. Mileage.

It's funny I looked up the Ford specs after writing that, wow, you can get a 4x4 Supercab Ford and it's rated like 6100 or so pounds, (the same 3.73 gears as above) then you can get the Ram Quadcab, with 3.55 gears, 4x4, and it is rated less, 5850. Well, we see the Ford has a gear disadvantage, even though the diffs might be higher then the Ram, same old thing Al. Like I have said. the Ram would tow in 7th (2.98), the Ford in 6th (top) gear. 2.57.

Which do you think would need to downshift first after reaching an incline with those ratios, Al? I haven't driven either, but my guess is the Ford. I don't need college education to say that either. And when that 6 speed, be it a Ford/GM/ or Ram 6 speed, gets to downshifting, the rpm change will be alot more then it will be with the closer ratio 8 speed.

And yes, there is far more to it, such as how much torque it makes at lower rpm, engine and transmission tow haul programing, brakes, cooling, steering feel with the weight on the receiver hitch, on and on.

Georges "fix" for what he sees as being a problem is 4.1 gears for the Ford, and 3.92s in the Ram. That won't fix the gear spread, Al.

Years ago a person might have bought a small v-8 with a 3.5 geared axle and a 2.5 1st gear, and it might be rated to tow say 5500 pounds. Now? More gears, maybe more then twice as many, and a much lower 1st gear.

Meanwhile, George will still be wanting 4.1 and old school gears, not understanding that the 1st gear is much higher now. Tundras had 3.33 in 2007, Ford had 4.17 in 2009, and now Ram 4.71.

The advantage is that these new trucks like the Ram can tow in a hilly area or city in say 5th or 6th, or 7th gear anywhere else, but still have a good highway gear for going down the interstate at 75. That is what they mostly do according to you, right Al??

And yeah Al, many a times you said some "stuff" about our HD axle ratings, which I believe you meant to say PAYLOAD, because your little truck has nowhere near the same AXLE rating (I believe it's 4100 pounds REAR AXLE on your "truck") as a RAM 2500/F-250?GM2500, and I will just wait for the day when they actually compare them side by side, so people like you can see how much better the trucks we have here, atleast the 3/4 tons, will actually carry a load comfortably.
But it won't matter cause people can talk talk they are blue in the face, you still wont get it Al.

You have your oppinion, I have mine. You believe yours is always better, because you have been to school.

@Ziveria,
News to me. All I saw was Diesel SUV's, Trucks and Vans in St Petersburg.. Brand new Diesel SUV's . Cars had petrol though. Lot of very dirty vehicles after the snow thawed. Russia and Ukraine have quite a few heavy Truck Builders, Kamaz, Maz and Ural.
There were a lot of Trucks and SUV's.


@TR4 Tom who is putting down Dirt Speedway? Best Auto racing out there, especially the Sprinters. Did an article on Australian Dirt Track racing or called Speedway here for a local magazine.

@ziveria,
A Lot of Russian only vehicles in the country.
A ZIL Van type truck.
http://www.trucksplanet.com/news/photo/1351060477.jpg

A MAZ MAN Dump Truck.
http://www.trucksplanet.com/news/photo/1351059152.jpg

A GAZ "Next"
http://www.trucksplanet.com/news/photo/1350566470.jpg

A"Gazelle" NEXT van
http://www.trucksplanet.com/photo/for_news/2012/september/gazelle-next/08d752f338631b22ab844e54a3c6ff6a.jpg

URAL
http://www.trucksplanet.com/news/photo/1346134685.jpg

That is some of the manufacturers.
A KRAZ from the Ukraine.
http://www.trucksplanet.com/news/photo/1316254323.jpg

@Robert
I don't like zviera, but those are semi trucks not pickuptrucks.

@Troll patrol
zveria didn't talk about pickups. I started the discussion on the use of diesel in very cold climates, not just pickups.

@Troll Patrol.
Pickups do not exist in Russia, closest thing to a Pickup is a diesel van.

To whom it may concern: It appears that your efforts to clean up your site and ban the perpetual drivel posters are all alive and well.Too bad.I had hoped that a more mature audience would be participating but perhaps they just read the articles and move on like I do.BTW.....how much do you make running this daycare for kids,lol.

When is this going into effect?

@kemo-

NEVER

GUTS
GLORY
BEST IN CLASS
RAM!



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