Nissan's Project Titan Seeks Input From Outdoor Lovers

Nissan Titan SHOT Show II

As part of a continuing series of theme-built project vehicles, Nissan just announced at the 2014 Shooting, Hunting, and Outdoor Trade Show in Las Vegas that it will be looking to the outdoor-loving media to help build the ultimate outdoor adventure vehicle based on the current-generation Titan.

"Nissan is invested in designing the most innovative trucks ever. Projects like this allow us to gather input directly from industry leading media members and those companies that embrace an outdoor lifestyle in their work and play, helping us deliver trucks that buyers want to own," said Fred Diaz, senior vice president, Nissan sales and marketing, parts and service in the U.S., in a statement.

More than 2,500 journalists have been asked to submit adventure suggestions for Project Titan via Twitter or video submissions; there are no restrictions on the type or scale of adventure to be conquered. Nissan will provide updates about project through Facebook and Twitter, with the final phase pairing a military veteran and outdoor journalist in the truck and sending them on their ultimate journey.

As Nissan continues the development of its next-generation full-size Titan pickup, the automaker is gathering insight from the people who know truck well. Project Titan builds on previous efforts to talk to the people who best understand what truck buyers really want.

Nissan announced early last year that the next-generation Titan will be offered with a new, optional Cummins 5.0-liter V-8 turbo-diesel. Whether that signals Nissan's desire to make stronger, heavier-duty pickups or simply offer a special towing package for its half-ton pickup remains to be seen.

 

 

Comments

As an outdoor lover, here's what I need.
A smaller full size truck that is nimble enough to negotiate sharp hairpin turns on rough unpaved goat trails in the mountains and also that gets 25+ MPG in the city and 35+ MPG on the highway so that I can afford to get to the outdoors in the first place. 75" box with a crew cab. It can be a smallish crew cab. Easy to self maintain. Need a decent amount of comforts like power windows and cruise control but without the onboard distraction system. Think you can manage that, Nissan?

@maxx

Sure, no problem. The nuclear reactor your imaginary truck needs to propel you up/down goat trails will set you back a few million dollars, but the technology is awesome. Finding a sanitary way to dispose of spent fuel rods is a bitch, but that's what dumpster are for, right?

Nissan's half ton trucks are fine, they just aren't up to the standard being set by the competition. Their compact truck is a great choice for someone who needs to drive on goat trails so you are in luck, unfortunately the "goat trail" mileage is around 10 mpg, but it's cheaper than the nuke option.

How about more compact--to go places the big boys CAN'T go?

Not "imaginary truck" at all, papa jim. They used to be all over this country. They just weren't as BIG as today's full sizers are.

Being on the cusp of more fuel efficient vehicles like the RAM diesel and the new Ford ecoboost that reality is closer. The only option now sadly is to import a Hilux or similar size as the 4-cyl diesel in the Hilux can reach combined 38 mpg. According to the manufacture PR machine, so real world would be less. The day is coming, unfortunately it may take another generation though.

Diesel Frontier.

I fish, boat and camp - I live in the northwest and have a very outdoor lifestyle. I also do a lot of DIY home projects. I'll be in the market for some form of a truck in mid 2015. My truck also needs to be my daily driver. I live in a big city.

I like that the current Titan being slightly shorter and narrower than the Big3. A couple inches here and there is a show stopper for me. Most parking garages in the city have 78" or 80" clearance so something too tall won't for me either.

Towing 8-10k pounds is plenty. I want to see a half ton truck that can haul more than 1500+/- pounds. Compact trucks overseas can haul more than 3000 pounds. I'd like to see that payload option on a high-end model (air suspension?).

Half ton for me should have reasonably good fuel economy. I still question the 5.0L diesel option for being a bit overkill, expensive, and less than optimal fuel economy.

I must've missed the last several years where Nissan has claimed to listen to potential half ton buyers.

@Maxx
Here's a diesel pickup we get in Australia an can acheive 40mpg on the highway. It will off road with a high and low range. I don't think it would be the best off roader.

It is also good at towing even though it is limited to 5 000lbs. The diesel I suppose helps.

Also, it's styling is quite awful. I put it into the same category as a Ram.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/168006/ssangyong-actyon-sports-review-2/

@ All

you aren't going to get 25mpg in the EPA city category with a 4500 pound truck in this universe. Period. Trust me.

The Frontier is a great compact truck. The Titan is a perfectly suitable half ton, but it's behind the curve. My neighbor has a high end Titan that he uses to trailer his big boat and it's a very nice ride.

The problem for a manufaturer trying to create an 'outdoors' type 4x4 is the end result will give you bling you might not need.

Maybe Nissan should look at what accessories they can offer for aftermarket sales.

Requirements for a guy to go hunting will be different to guy who goes fishing.

A family that likes camping will have different requirements.

There are to many variables when designing a pickup.

Maybe they should concentrate on building a good vehicle first, rather than trying to bling the vehicle with stuff that most will not need for their style and preference of off roading.

How many vehicles are sold with the correct tyres for your off roading requirements? That you think would be the easiest to resolve. To have a range of tyres available for you to choose from when purchasing a new 4x4.

Nice to see people want a 1/2 ton that is shorter. Ecoboost and Ecodiesel have finally made it possible to reduce the huge fronts of these trucks. The Ecodiesel with a mid size box 76" with full size crew cab is 237.9" long. This won't fit in the average size garage which is 235" long. And small crew cabs are too crampy. 1/2 tons need to stop accomodating engine compartment space to accomodate for V8's since those extra two cylinders take up the 4-5" needed to fit in a garage and make it easier to park and commute with. 28mpg or higher is required for a commuter for the masses. I'll even pay >$38k for this. I had a Mazda '84 B2000 for 320kmiles (30yrs) which just died (threw a rod), and it had a 72" box, and I still want 73"-76" box with full size crew cab. A smaller 66" box length just isn't enough for motorcycles and wood and furniture moving and misc home repair jobs for someone who has had a bigger box for 30yrs. Give the V8 lovers some steroided still V6 versions of the Ecoboost and Ecodiesel and the full size will instantly become the new mid size with no further ado, otherwise TESLA will. Why have so many versions when one can do the job. I've envisioned this truck for over a decade and I will not feel like buying until it becomes a reality.

the average garage is only 240" long? I would think it would be more than that. An extended cab is more than enough 90% of the time, chevy and dodge dont even offer that anymore.
Diesel stick shift extended cab 4x4 would make a great 1/2 ton truck.

@papa jim
I don't know where you got your information from regarding FE. This Korean dual cab will return that kind of FE.

6.4 litre of diesel per 100km is result = 36.75227864583332 miles per gallon (US).

The problem is you guys can't get this stuff. It is out there. Even the 2.2 diesel Ranger/BT50 and 2.0 litre Amarok will get 25mpg city cycle.

The US will go down the diesel path sooner or later. The energy companies, corn farmers, auto manufacturers and UAW will come to their senses. It's not all driven by the EPA and Greenies.

........................................................................................................................................................................

The 2.0-litre turbo diesel-powered dual-cab is expected to boast a combined consumption rating of just 6.4 litres per 100km - a full 1.3L/100km (or 17 per cent) less than the current class benchmark, the VW Amarok.

.......................................................................................................................................................................

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/australias-most-fuelefficient-ute-20120117-1q3pj.html

@ hr206:
I too live in the PNW and need a very capable smaller truck that will get good mpg's. That's why I will buy the new Colorado diesel when that comes out.For my family and I it's the perfect size with ample towing/hauling power and it will get very good mpg's.

Currently, neither the Titan nor the Frontier can be flat towed behind a motor home. As Nissan develops their future trucks,
Hopefully they can make that option available for the RVers.

@John: I'm assuming by "extended cab" you mean the old-style half-cab, with either no doors or front-opening clamshells. Chevy and Dodge (and Toyota) didn't get rid of those, they just turned the doors around into rear-opening doors to make it look like a small crew cab. Of course, this negates the advantage of having an extended cab by plopping a B-pillar right in the middle of an otherwise perfectly good loading space, but hey, that's what the customer wanted, right?

Well, for an outdoor truck, how about more full sizes with long beds? I get that half the truck people out there don't haul anything, so it makes no difference to them that they have a 5.5 ft bed. One of my biggest gripes is that long bed trucks are becoming so uncommon for the 1/2 ton segment.

Honestly, it would be nice to see someone offer a 1/2 ton CC LB, but of course we all know that will not happen any time in the near future. I would like to at least see more extended cab long bed trucks though. I remember back in the 80/90s there were plenty of 1/2 Ford and Chevy ext cab LB trucks out there. In fact it was a much more common configuration that it is now. Sadly Ford is the only one who makes a ext cab LB now. The automakers say there isn't a demand for them, it's probably true. Oh well....

How about build enough different cab/bed configurations with options that aren't "bundled" together?

Let me pick and chose options from a order sheet - no packages.

@Big Al,

I'm not seeing even the compact unibody sedans getting 25 city mpg on unleaded regular; these compacts don't weigh anything near what a mid size crew pickup weighs. Mazda 3 and Mazda 5 four cylinder hatches are near there and the Subaru Forester 2.5 non turbo is rated at 25 or so, but these are nowhere near the truck-like capacity we want as truck buyers.

Typical unibody compacts are 3200-3400 pounds, about a thousand pounds lighter than a Frontier 4x4 crew. Diesel addresses part of the gap, but reducing size/weight is the other component for designers and I'm just not seeing a big US market for little trucks.

@papa jim
I'm not stating a large market for smaller pickups.

I'm stating there are options out there for a 25mpg city cycle.

Looking at how the pickup lineup is evolving, it wouldn't surprise me if Nissan offer a large diesel Titan, I'll call it a MD for medium duty and the new Navara/Frontier with the 2.8 ISF Cummins.

The new Hilux/Taco will probably come with a BMW inspired smaller diesel similar to what the Amarok has.

If it does it will be a gem of an engine. I really like those small German diesels.

I can forsee a 30mpg city cycle diesel midsizer in the US within 2 years. As you can see we already have them.

My mother's Focus in the States only gets approximately the same FE than I get out of my diesel pickup. She also drives digitally, either on or off the tap ;)

Big Al--Maybe the answer for a small recreational and suburban truck is to share a platform with a compact crossover (low cost of development and production) and offer the smaller truck in all wheel drive. A smaller truck does not need a body on frame but could use a unibody construction which would lower the weight and increase fuel economy. Offer a small diesel as an option. Nissan could do this easily and bring back the Datsun name for this truck. Nissan is using the Datsun name in other countries for their compact and subcompact cars.

@Jeff/Big Al

Creating FE ratings for engines involve a fair amount of sorcery. Do you take into account the way most "city" people drive. Truly accurate city ratings, esp. for diesel, need to account for running a cold engine. As we've noted before in these comments, a diesel that is not fully warmed up to its spec operating temp. will not produce the performance numbers and definitely will not produce the FE numbers. But, that's how a lot of people drive!

So, my original post in this particular story suggests that for someone like MaXx who wants to run in 4th gear low range (or lower) on 'goat' trails, forget about getting 25-30 mpg.

An entirely different approach is needed, such as a diesel-electric combo. Even a gas engine in a configuration like the Chevy Volt could produce terrific results in low speed operation where peak torque is available via the electric-only drivetrain, recharged by the internal combustion engine. There's real potential for BOTH performance AND mpg.

Check out the drive mechanisms on diesel locomotives! It's very costly to build but it delivers FE and power.

@papa jim--That is true that you do need to warm diesels up especially in cold weather and if you are going short distances then the diesel might not be the best option. I do think that a smaller lighter truck for recreation and light hauling would meet the needs of most suburbanites. The only way that this could be cost effective would be to share a platform and components with a small crossover.

A diesel for me would not be practical because most of the time I make short trips of 5 miles or less and the engine would not have enough time to warm up. I drive about 3 miles to catch the bus to go to work. I use my truck more on the weekends especially for hauling mostly getting rid of things to prepare for my next stage of life which is retirement. It is amazing how much one can accumulate over the years. My S-10 is a perfect hauler for decluttering.

I looked at the Titan and Frontier trucks and the major problem is fuel economy. Nissan needs to concentrate their efforts in fuel mileage. I wanted to buy a Nissan but not at 13 miles per gallon.
The major hurdle Nissan trucks has is fuel economy and hard plastic interiors.

RobertC,

You illustrate my point perfectly.
The people who buy Nissans, are looking for a good value.
Value doesn't mean necessarily mean cheap.

The kinds of mouthbreathing drill baby drill fox news watching toothless inbreds that a large v8 diesel would appeal to are never, ever, ever, EVER going to set foot in a nissan dealership let alone buy a Titan.

People like us, we were seriously considering a titan, are instantly turned off by the horrible gas mileage and the declining fit and finish.

I don't know about the rest of you but I like to spend time in the great outdoors to get away from the noise and fumes of the city. That includes the loud sputtering that my redneck neighbor's Fiat Ram makes every time he goes in and out of the cul de sac.

And Al,
We have some good offroad contenders here but they're a bit small cargo-wise for work. If they'd trim down the full sizes here to about the dimensions of the current midsize but with a little longer wheel base, longer and deeper beds and reintroduce a compact, the I think more people will be satisfied.

@MaXx
Here's a Fiat Doblo pickup.

It's FE is about 47mpg in diesel with 105hp and 250ftlb of torque. The gasoline version gets 55mpg. It will carry a 2 200lb payload as well.

It's also described as unusual in the EU.

It wouldn't be hard to chop and change the vehicle to make a 4x4 or change the body panels to make it more aesthetically pleasing.

I've have provided a link before to it.

http://vans.autotrader.co.uk/van-news-reviews/fiat/doblo/fiat-doblo-work-up-2013-expert-van-review/02d5bdea-5535-4625-8ecf-a268c634e167

@MaXx

In addition to the Fiat Doblo, there is also a really cool feature on the PUTC website, which allows someone like you to preview the comments you propose to make before actually pushing the button.

Better to have everyone wonder if you are a half-wit, than to publish the stuff you write and, in doing so, remove all doubt.

@papa jim
I think if the new F-150 is accepted by the 'conservative' pickup crowd Ford will rule the full size roost.

At the moment it seems Ram are relying on a fist full of gears and diesel.

I wonder if GM is going to go down that USLAB body of lightweight high tensile steel.

I have spent a day or so reading up on the direction of future vehicle construction.

It seems the European prestige vehicles are moving in the direction of aluminium and the day to day Euro vehicles are going down the high tensile steel route.

Now Ford with the F-150 appears to be heading down the path of the prestige cars. Ford might have designed new processes for the handling and manufacturing of aluminium.

If you look at the F-150 body shape (even the Range Rover) you will see they are quite 'straight' in design.

Toyota and GM might concentrate more on midsizers considering where they are applying technology to overcome CAFE challenges.

Like I stated the other day, it seems the manufacturers might be taking different paths to achieve better FE.

The 2.7 V6 Eco Boost is actually a good size engine for it's intended purpose.

As for the Raptor, I really can't see it being viable for a little while, until Ford can assess the aluminium F-150's in less demanding environments.

Ford could have a 'halo' Ranger off roader with a 5 litre Coyote. But, boy that would cost some CAFE credits.

@Big Al,

Having driven trucks since before legal age (fifty years) I cannot ever remember a truck asking me for my political affiliation or which news channels I watch (or choose NOT to watch). MaXx consistently insists that he is above all of that.

He seems to hold many of his own countrymen in utter contempt: "...mouth-breathing Fox news types." Really?

I pity the fool. He began this entire string of comments with a stupid observation about fuel economy that anyone with half a brain would immediately recognize for its obvious shortcomings.

I made the mistake of sarcastically responding with my usual sharp wit and that set him off on the Fox News thing. Sheesh!

@papa jim
I just spent nearly six weeks with my mother in the States and every morning she had Fox and Friends on.

I would then listen all about Obama Care and they were pushing Hillary's situation in Libya. Boy, what trash.

News programming in the US should be called the 6 O'Clock Opinion.

So after a couple of weeks I told her that Fox News and (MSNBC, which she doesn't watch and I dislike as well) will be banished while I was in her house. She was getting withdrawal symptoms.

I tried telling her that the Tea Party were a fringe group and destroying the Republicans'.

I'm what we call in Australia centre right. I believe in public health if it is correctly implemented, I believe in compulsory 401k if you work, so not to burden a business or government.

I believe that social security should be scaled on retirement. If you own many shares and several houses, why do you need welfare? The government shouldn't manage retirement, that's far to the left.

When I was there the Fast Food workers went out on strike and I couldn't believe some of the attitudes towards them. It appeared as if the American Middle class was scared. In Australia a McDonalds worker is on, between $18-$20 USD and hour and our Big Macs are only 70c more. But, through productivity we have less workers in a McDonalds.

I do believe in a liveable minimum pay. I do know when I'm in the US there is too much disparity. Most of my family there can't afford to pay the gas for pickup, let alone buy one.

Pickup ownership in the US is a dream for many. I don't think many who blog on this site realise this.

For some of us who blog, we should be thankful we have the resources to own and operate a pickup.

Pickups are great and fantastically flexible vehicles to own and it doesn't matter if it is a midsize or a fullsize.

But they are becoming more and more expensive and out of reach of the average Joe. I just hope these newer pickups arre affordable, or they will become like prestige vehicles.

John,
Avergae Garage length: I have measured three San Francisco bay area homes and they are all about the same size from what I remember, but not 240" and definitely not bigger. Measuring from sheetrock wall to the U-shaped metal support on my rollup garage door is 235.5". The homes were built in 1960, 1990, and 1995. The 1990 and later homes were built from Shappell.

Outdoor activities always need more bed space: which gets filled up too quickly with a 5.5' bed. Then one adds the 40" legroom crew cab and the truck becomes very long for city everyday use. Shortening the engine compartment helps any truck configuration more manageable on a daily basis. But really, rear seating legroom dimension of only 32" is not very comfortable on longer trips.

@Angelo
This will stretch the concept of a US full size pickup. But it will fit into a garage. They have the same 2 litre, twin turbo diesel that's fitted to the Amarok.

They can be quite comfortable and economical to run.

http://goautomedia.cdn.on.net/gallery/volkswagen/transporter/2010_03_02_volkswagen-transporter-dual-cab07.jpg

http://www.autohotest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Volkswagen-Transporter-Dashboard.jpg

@papa jim
I wasn't having 'a go' at you as we would say in Australia.

But, my views can't be worked out by some. Just like brands of pickups, I don't support everything a specific political party stands for. Just like I don't support any specific brand of pickup.

A manufacturer can make a great pickup one year and a poor one the next. Political parties are the same to a degree. Except the basic tenants are what I decide on. I don't agree with the basic's of left wing politics. But we can go too far to the right as well.

My view is governments should look after the individual. That means, health, education, security and support infrastructure to allow business to flourish, not subsidise which hides deficiencies and ineffectual policy.

Greeenies and the left have many utopian ideals, which are great, but in reality are not achievable.

Pickups and SUVs/CUVs are easy target vehicles for political discussion. But the manufacturers are generally building what the consumer wants.

Even in the days of horse and carts an average person would have a cart before a buggy. A buggy was more of a luxury item and had limited versatility.

Carts offered utility. Pickups are the modern form of a cart.

@Big Al

I have a different view: I think politicians and government should stay out of the way. 9o% of what government does is a huge waste of resources.

Americans differ from the rest of the colonial class in that we never accepted the idea of a system where 5% of the country lives by a system where my ancestors and their wealth determine how my life will be. My ancestors in the UK rebelled against the idea that someone's lineage determines the outcome.

My wife is from Scotland. Her family moved to Australia in the 1970s to get away from the mess in places like Glascow today. She never expected a check from the government or a life on the dole like many of her relatives.

Public health is a monstrosity in Britain today. Why would someone go to the doctor expecting free service, but get thrown out on their ear if they went to the airport expecting a free ticket on the plane? That notion is gaining ground in the US unfortunately. Why is a trip to the surgeon a "right" but flying on a private jet not?

We disagree.

I'm currently driving a Titan Pro-4X 2011 leather and I love it , pulling power and confort ( after some change ) is top notch , fit way better than big3 and won't fall appart after 40k but plastic are cheap , mpg is crazy 27L/100km(8-10mpg) is wat you got day to day and highway best ever 13.5L ( aroun 17mpg ) we need better than this and not with a 10k option motor find a way to do it ( just the new 5.6 of QX56 would be a good start ) , find a better suspension furnisher , almost every owner replaced them with bilstein HD or 5100 , you put crappy shocks thats it , find a better setup , put a better rear end than dana super 44 and please offer us an autolocking differential option( like GMC ) , find a way to have an AWD mode ( like GMC and FORD ) , please keep the nissan truck look and won't "feminize" it like pathfinder , a classy look with utility never hurt

@BAF0 - You can look forward to these when you pickup truck market hits the skid.

These can be fairly economical and very comfortable. And you'll never feel the need to go back to traditional pickups.


http://www.failpix.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/vansemi.jpg

@DiM
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - FAIL!! - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You can be so silly and uncomprehensive at times.

How will that fit into a garage??

@BAF0 - That's a commercial type VW transporter. What's the dimensions? Looks to tall to fit in a garage, unless the dude in the picture is a midget. And it's not even 4wd.

Don't know what your deal is, But you'll have a long road ahead, trying to talk us out of full-size pickups. Never mind HD pickups, 3/4 ton and up.

You should give up YOUR pickups, especially the luxury crew cab 4X4s, and replace them with cheesy 2wd/fwd cargo vans converted to flatbed contraptions. We won't stop ya... Enjoy!

You have this giant chip on your shoulder because GM was bailed out by gov and Chrysler survives with a Fiat buyout. Ford survived regardless and would have been stronger had the other D2 allowed to simply die. I could tell you my personal view, but it's ancient history. Move on.

But it doesn't help your that all Aussie auto manufacturing is about to go belly up. I mean it doesn't help your bitter attitude. US full-size pickup are normally the focus of your rage. Especially those evil and "protected" Tundras and Titans...

That's just on this site. On TTAC you lash out constantly at all American, D3 (or D2.5 or 1.75) autos, American industry (or lack of) and the US/Canada in general.

You're and old, angry curmudgeon of a troll. Must be nothing else left to do in OZ but hate the outside world.


Political discussions are always interesting and depending on the participants, they can be highly emotional and illogical. That is no different than discussing religion and the environment.

I view myself as conservative but I find it ironic that when I did an online quiz it put me more to the libertarian end of the spectrum. I do believe that we should be free to do what we want as long as we don't harm others or ourselves (that would be physical, emotional, or spiritual harm).
Government should ONLY be in the business of keeping its populace safe. That would be rules and regulations preventing the corporate greed that caused the 2008 meltdown, military forces for civil and national defence, and protection against crime.
One can debate the need for social safety nets. I do believe that healthcare should be regulated since the USA costs are considerably higher than many "socialized" systems. The fact that millions of Americans cannot afford healthcare in itself is and indictment of the system. Healthcare in the USA could be heading for its own 2008.
I don't have a problem with some sort of social assistance but it is something that able bodied people should have very limited access to.
Government is controlled by the 1.0% who are in turn controlled by the 0.1%. One can blame the "Commander in Chief" but in reality, he isn't the one calling the shots.
He is just a puppet on a string no different than the long line of puppets that preceded him.

@DiM
Now you are trying a different tact of attack? Why?

1. I placed US full sizers (other than the Colorado) above US midsizers on my list of preferred vehicles.

2. Why not have a VW Transporter pickup. Release it this year and they they can call it the "HALF CENTENNIAL" Chicken Tax edition :) This can be in rememberance of the VW Transporter pickup that started all of this back in the 60s. Do you still have that tax? Why a tax for so long. You'd think 50 years is long enough for an industry to get onto the correct footing.

3. As for GM I don't like the fact it was saved as it was. If GM was allowed to expire in a dignified manner most still would have their jobs, but with a different outfit. Even Holden might still be going. The unprofitable parts of the business would have been sold off or trashed. But, that would have meant the UAW wouldn't get as much.

4. WTF? Chrysler? I've always supported the Fiat buy out. Show me where I don't.

5. I supported the demise of our auto industry if it costs the taxpayer, not preferred, but a necessity. The subsidised money can be spent on better infrastructure or less tax. Which means I keep the money or I have better roads. Not some union guy getting paid more than most. $70 000 a year was the wage for an Aussie auto worker, that's actual pay. I think they have sort of helped with the demise of their own jobs.

It seems DiM you have great trouble understanding any complex problem. You appear to have trouble comprehending that the auto industry is becoming a blur between countries. I mentioned this in the past.

For the industry to survive it has to rationalise, cut cost in other words.

You are lost right now. You can't find an angle to tackle me.

It's becoming apparent that you may have the chip on your shoulder with your constant attacks, not I.

Like my list of preferred US pickups highlight, I have only one mid sizer in my top five desired vehicles. I wouldn't buy one of your midsizers.

If I went to live in the US right now and needed a new vehicle I would probably buy a diesel Grand Cherokee.

A reminder:

This started as a topic related to mid size trucks. MaXx said he needs a mid sizer that gets 25 mpg city. I replied that he needed something nobody is making. To date, no one is making a 4500 pound pickup of any kind that gets great mileage on the so called Goat Trails where maxx wants to play, driving in low range to boot.

He replied by taking shots at (Fox News toothless...) people he evidently doesn't like very much, though nobody seems to know why.

My views on government have nothing to do with physics or how to get awesome FE with a mid size pickup, but we ended up exploring all of that.

I continue to believe that a vibrant North American economy and low unemployment would make the majority of truck buyers forget about gas mileage.

@BAF0 - You like our full-size trucks, and so do we. Their attributes are obvious. But that doesn't mean you still don't try to talk us out of them. For some unknown reason. And it's silly to think a van based truck conversion is anywhere near the same. Let's see you, BAF0, give up your luxury 4X4 crew cab Mazda pickup for a converted flatbed contraption, based on a cheesy mid-size cargo van, 2wd/fwd. How is that any different? Or any less silly for me to ask???

And yeah, take away the Chicken tax. I'm all for it. But who says they'll be any new trucks available? If there is, who says they sell well enough to justify continued import? If there was strong demand for small trucks in America, Hell yeah, we'd have most every brand known to man. They would all be here, come Hell or High water. But what 'chicken' prevented the 80's mini-truck craze/fad/explosion??? The only difference is, there was high demand. Get this through your head...

Global OEMs aren't stup!d. Same with Ford, Mazda, Chrysler, Isuzu, VW, Mitsu and Subaru. They got in while it was good, and wisely left when it got bad. Things change, is all. Yes, so sad. But there needs to be a profit to motivate OEMs. They don't exist to benefit the few BAF0s of the world.

I'm sad I can't go buy a brand new 'turnkey' molester/pedo/surfer/custom van at my local Chevy/GMC dealer. I have to build my own because my tastes are outside the mainstream. Cry YOU a river, right? Same with those that want more small truck choices. Cut up a small cargo van and put a flatbed deck on it. No one will stop you.

I can restore and old Dodge customized van, just like you can restore and old Datsun mini-truck. So what? The market has spoken. And moved on. Mainstream or no stream. Cry all YOU wan't. It's how the world works.

@DiM
It appears you are the one having trouble adjusting to the new world of pickups. Not I.

What you write could be directed at yourself. Maybe our new resident psych Johnny Slow Joe can help you.

@BAF0 - I completely missed out on the molester/custom van fad by a few years. Darn. Oh well. But I was there fully, for the mini-truck craze/fad/invasion. And I owned and totally enjoyed small trucks, however, I've moved on, like the rest of America.

Small trucks had their day. So did molester/surfer/custom vans. The past is the past and fads come and go. And it takes our fads a while to reach other parts of the world though... Let me know how the Disco era works for you when it finally arrives there!

@DiM
I know I'm succeeding when you revert to name calling.

This proves most of your arguments/views are quite baseless.

As you can see I'm not for or against anything.

Midsizers have their place in the US as does full size, SUVs/CUVs, etc.

The new Chev Colorado might just be the vehicle to take sales away from medium SUVs/CUVs and some V6 full size trucks. If you new GM midsizers are of the quality of my Mazda, they will be successful.

Even diesel full size trucks might take sales from V8s and turbo/supercharged V6 engines will take V8s customers. Even 4 cylinder turbo gas engine might become viable in a decade or so to power a full size.

The sun is setting on the V8 engine ever so slowly as their are viable V8 alternatives coming.

I'm not saying I don't like V8s, just I really don't care. I don't need a V8, I would buy a diesel to do the same job I would need a V8 for.

This is the future, live with it.

@DiM
One day our off spring will come home to their father and say 'hey dad, I just put a fully sick armature and magnet in my pickup motor'.

His father will reply, 'geez son, in my day I had a modified 1.3 litre diesel Fiat pickup and the chicks loved it. But son that was years ago, back in 32'.

If you want a half-ton truck, expect it to carry 1,000#--½ of an Imperial Ton. If you want it to carry 1500#, then you want a ¾ ton truck. See how that works?

That's the problem with today's pickup truck market; the people who want heavy haul/tow ratings want more out of their truck than it should handle at the listed size. You want ¾- to 1-ton trucks but you want it to be CALLED a ½-ton. I want a ½-ton truck that carries... ½ ton AT MOST. That means it doesn't have to be huge; it doesn't have to have a gigantic engine and it certainly doesn't have to have a monster heavy suspension! In fact, all it needs is a bed at with least a 4 foot wide tailgate and about 6 feet long to offer enough floor for 8-foot lumber/wallboard/etc. You want bigger? Get bigger. Just don't call it a half-ton.

@Jeff S

re: Truck prices, never forget that the cost of something is the difference between the price you paid "new" and the price you sold it for later.

If I buy an F150 for 50k and sell it in five years for 45k because it's a model that's in demand, my cost per year (or depreciation) was only $1000.



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