Big Investments Coming for Ford F-650, F-750

Ford F-750 II

After Ford's big announcement more than two years ago that its F-650 and F-750 production facilities would move from Mexico to the U.S., Ford says it will be investing a large sum of money into a U.S. plant to produce the pickup trucks.

According to The Detroit News, Ford will invest $128 million and protect 1,400 jobs at the Ohio Assembly Plant near Cleveland. The plant will incorporate the changes necessary to produce the medium-duty trucks as it winds down production of the current E-Series van (due to be replaced by the new full-size Transit).

Ford produced more than 8,000 F-650 and F-750 work trucks during 2013; they are long overdue for upgrades and possibly a new powertrain option. We've seen a few camouflaged trucks, so we're guessing there might be some future announcements from Ford. Stay tuned for more.

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Comments

@PUTC

Eight thousand units does not sound like much in a world where Ford and GM sell almost a million Light Duty trucks every year.

Thoughts?

hydraulic hybrid?

@papa jim - PUTC's reference to pickups and the F650/F750 should of been met with some questions especially if they were just regurgitaing a Ford press release. These trucks are not pickups even though there are conversions out
there.
8,000 MDT's isn't a large amount and I wonder if Ford will build their own cab/chassis or contract out to Navistar.

@ Lou BC I think Ford will cut all ties to Navistar. Ford has enough money and resources to build their own medium - duty truck

I think they will also drop the Cummings 6.7L engine for their own in house built 6.7L Power stroke engine.

@EC - I just read that Ford is in the process of expanding their line of credit ahead of multiple new products hitting the market.
(Ironically, last time Ford did that, the economy tanked and GMC and Chrysler went belly up).

Ford could go it alone and build their own MDT's.

It will be nice to get back to having a rear end from Eaton, or Rockwell with different bearings only available from FORD, Eaton Transmissions with special bearing packages that were 5 times regular sets and only available from ford.
Ford can change parts used so quick it is just amazing they have been missed. Just look-up the number of front hubs available for Ford 1 tons 4x4's. Ignition parts for the same year of their gas engines. Their dealers have missed them.
Just a thought!

@Lou_BC

I saw a story about finance and investment this week that is the big Kahuna of stories: Facebook is buying a firm called Whatsapp! for just under $20 BILLION in cash and stock.

This is where the excitement is on Wall Street today, not who's gonna build which truck.

If you haven't seen the story, this little $20 B company has just 55 employees, is only 5 years old and only really has one product. This is the real Silicon Valley sort of magic dust that gets folks riled in California.

For a company like Ford or GM to create that kind of excitement is just about impossible in today's marketplace, which is why we observe the sort of Market-Share shenaniggans that we see over discounts, cash on the hood, plant closings and offshoring, etc.

Today's Ford story is going to be a flash story for everybody in the country for about five minutes. For auto workers and suppliers in Ohio, a little longer perhaps. :)

Good news. Bring U.S. jobs back home.

Ford should just expand the capabilities of the F-350, F-450 and F-550 trucks.

Is that 1 400 workers to build 8 000 vehicles per year?

You wonder why if a vehicle is that labour intensive to manufacture why it was moved out of Mexico.

@papa jim - in some respects your story shines some light on what is wrong with most countries.
Companies that are investment/capital/labour intensive like the auto industry struggle with cash flow but a "point and click" company existing in cyberspace is worth much much more.

I do believe that Google is trying to position itself to take on MicroSoft. I had to google WhatsApp.

Social media is what sells to the younger crowd. Us old farts squabble over pickups that run on dead dinosaurs. LOL

What is this dumptrucks.com now, The ford 650/750 does not even come as a pickup truck.

@Lou_BC
Many of these 'Silicon Valley' companies stocks are over valued to the hilt.

I do think as the high tech companies of all forms become more prominent their values will drop like a rock into water. I can't see the value in some of the stock prices.

Also, many nations are gradually banding together to stop the tax evasion most use for their survival.

Australian's love Apple products, but yet Apple made several million dollars in Australia and only paid $5 million in taxes.

But, he who rules and lobbies best determines how his tax dollar are paid.

@Lou_BC
Apple made several BILLION dollars in Australia, not million.

@papa jim -

You're right; total sales of 8,700 trucks over a year doesn't sound like much, especially against a backdrop of over one million light truck sales per year. Those kinds of numbers, though, put Ford neck-and-neck with International for 2nd place in Class 6 and in 3rd place in Class 7, behind International. Freightshaker leads in Class 6 and 7 sales. Ford said back in 2011 that bringing F-650 and F-750 production in-house will put an end to the Blue Diamond Truck LLC joint venture with Navistar.

These segments just don't have huge monthly sales numbers like light trucks.

With regard to the 6.7L Powerstroke vs. the 6.7L Cummins in the 650/750, the Powerstroke was designed for the F-250 through F-550 truck duty cycle, so it really isn't suited to Class 6 or 7 work. Cummins has versions of its 6.7L engine designed for the Class 6-7 duty cycle(it's built much heavier). The displacement of the two engines is the same, but that's where the similarity stops. Ford also offers the 6.8L V10 in the F-650, so it might get carried over to the new trucks.

The same Ohio plant will also build Ford's F53 and F59 stripped chassis vehicles for things like RVs and custom body builders. E-Series production will be moved to the plant and continued for a period of time, but E-Series will eventually be ended altogether.

For once I agree with HemiV8!

@Glenn
I was going to say the same thing as I doubt that ford would go the route of the V8 over the I6 in the F-650 and F-750.

@Glenn

Since Ford has announced they're killing off the 6.2, it would be surprising for them to save the V10, considering the number of shared parts on those two engines (I'm thinking valve train bits, and rods, pistons ect.)

@papa jim - the 6.2 is being killed in the F150 only.... unless there is a tidbit of news somewhere that I missed.
It was never a big seller in the F150.

@Lou_BC

That makes sense, actually.

The 6.2 they rolled out in 2011 never really made sense except as an interim item. Keeping it on as a base item for the F250 fleet models gives them a motor that uses a lot of legacy systems at Ford from the modular engine days.

Costs a fraction to build compared to the V6 turbo, or a diesel. Uses a lot of design (and parts) from the late 1990s that continues to give some ROI.

Man this website is comical! almost 2 YEARS ago Hino launched a Diesel Hybrid but you never heard that info from PUTC because its not a ford. WOW you NEVER see anything on this site pertaining to medium duties until................... you guessed it ford has some news. man this is just becoming typical here.

I wish Ford put the 6.7 powerstroke in these trucks. It seems kinda stupid for them to tout as having the best light-duty diesel then going ahead and putting the Rams 6.7 Cummins in their class 6 and 7 trucks. Doesn't make sense. Id bet it'll be just as good as the Cummins engine, but that's just me.

Hemi, yes there has been no Hino news here. They also did not review the Fiat 500L, how crazy is that? Yes this website is starting to branch out into other areas like big SUVs and vans, but nobody should come here expecting it.

@freedomidi86 The Cummins has the advantage off the line with better low rpm torque, but the Power Stroke has a flatter torque curve and keeps it in to the mid-high rpm better than the Cummins. I think they are both great engines, can't go wrong either way.

Avon lake will still be producing E Series Chassis-cabs. These make up almost half of E Series current sales. The 1400 employees won't just be working on the new mediums.

Some of the comments regarding the 6.2 I find interesting.

I did read an article that stated the 3.5 Eco Boost was the replacement engine for the 6.2. I realise that the 3.5 is a much lighter engine in construction.

Also, in 2018 the changes will take effect for Class 3 trucks and larger.

I do think a smaller and cheaper diesel could be used.

Remember that these trucks have to meet the new emissions and fuel regulations.

I know that the Tundra and Titan aren't in the same league as the F-650/750 but those trucks going to the ISV Cummins is an indicator or where HDs are heading.

I don't know if a gas Class 3 and up will be feasible. I really haven't read into that deeply.

CUMMINS IS DIMB TO PUT A MOTOR IN THE CRAPPY TITAN AND TUNDRA, WASTE OF MONEY, PUT IT IN A REAL TRUCK LIKE A FORD, AND YOU WILL SELL, YOUR JSUT GET IDIOTS WHO PULL 10,000 POUNDS WITH A TUNDRA, AND CRASHING INTO PEOPLE, CAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD HAUL.WE DONT NEED TITAN OR TUNDRA, THERE BOTH WEAK.

@Nick 5.4 guy

have you ever considered coffee or tea? Maybe a diet coke...

When I was young I had a problem with ethanol--not in my gas tank, but in my bloodstream. I liked it, but it didn't like me.

Try the tea. About a half teaspoon of sugar. Or a little half/half. Really hits the spot.

@HemiLOL - They did mention Hino0 hybrids.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/07/new-hino-coe-sport-diesel-electric-hybrid.html

That makes me feel good that I own a true American made truck, I feel good spending my money knowing it goes to the income of my own blood fellow Americans!
God Bless America !

If you know anything about truck you will know that 8000 F-650's is a good amount. Mitsubishi sold about 3400. Ford is #3 in Medium Duty sales right behind Freightliner and Navistar.

Papa Jim is poo pooing this post because GM dropped all its medium-duty trucks prior to its controversial bankruptcy and, stays mum about any return to heavier midrange vehicles.

The site did mention the Hino Hybrids just like Lou said it did. Will hemi lol apologize and stop attacking the site with false info? Salesmen always lie.

@Pat There are few sites with good hints that GM is working on a 4500-5500 trucks which from my guess is about the time a new durmax and allson trans will show up

Pickuptrucks.com does not fit your agenda anymore. Vans, suvs, medium duty trucks, what next will you be reporting on? Maybe the new three wheel car from Elio Motors would be a good one for you to report on.

@Johnny Doe, Yes, but 4500 & 5500 are not medium duties. They are regular HD's.

@papa jim -

Killing the V10 is a real possibility, especially considering that a redesign of the Super Duty line is in the offing. The V10 is the standard engine in the F-450 and F-550, so I'm keen to see what Ford decides to do.

On a side note, Ford also offers a retuned version of the V10 as a standalone industrial engine through its Ford Power Products operations.

This is good news, particularly for the employees of Ford's Avon Lake plant. But, the real story may have more to do with commitments Ford made to the UAW and the state of Ohio. I think it is safe to say that the F-650 and 750 are not much of a priority for Ford, for the last 10 years their production (with no updates!) has been subbed out to Navistar, and sales of only 8000 units/year is a very small number for Ford. So, why invest in the 650/750 line at all? The reason may be because of the decision to replace the E series with the European-style Transit and build the Transit in a different plant than Avon Lake, the plant that has been building the E series. Ford has no choice but to keep the Avon Lake plant open after the E series is discontinued, and they had to put a new product in it. Looks like the 650 and 750 (along with motorhome chassis, which had also been subbed out by Ford many years ago) are going to Avon Lake to fill the void left by the E series. Let's hope these vehicles sell well enough to keep Avon Lake open.

We already knew that about the Transit from 2011, but there is more to it. As Ford spokesperson Mike Levine reminded us, back in 2011, Ford announced in an investor release that it would shift production "after the [Ohio] plant stops current production of the Ford E-Series vans." According to that release, the Ohio factory will also receive $128 million in upgrades to build the new trucks, plus the F53 motorhome chassis and F59 commercial chassis.

The trucks are currently built in Escobedo, Mexico, as part of a joint venture with Navistar International. The Kansas City Assembly Plant in Kansas City, MO will begin building the new Transit van. The shift is part of Ford's long-term plan to move more commercial vehicle production to the US because it, "will be able to streamline and strengthen the engineering and manufacturing of our next-generation medium-duty trucks," said then-Ford President Mark Fields in the 2011 release. According to The Detroit News, Ford will issue a more detailed release about the shift in production on February 28.

I think this has a lot to do with the failed partnership with Navistar. After all the lawsuits and the bad blood resulting in finger pointing, I'm sure the two companies want to be as far apart as possible. The good news is that a US factory stays open, too. There will be less workers and some people will have to transfer to other factories or take a buyout but that is life. They can transfer to the Transit factory.

Simply put, the 6.7 Cummins is a MEDIUM duty engine and the 6.7 Powerstroke and 6.6 Duramax are LIGHT duty engines. The 6.7 Cummins is up there with the CAT diesel in regards to medium duty in these trucks.

Sure the 6.7 Powerstroke and 6.6 Duramax are faster and better performers in the light duty segment when compared to the 6.7 Cummins, but the Cummins will go much longer in a medium duty platform before it needs to be overhauled. Plus due to the inherent design of the I6, the Cummins should be making better low end torque vs the V8s.

@Glenn
I am back from trip through Southern Australia and I suspect the move from Mexico to Ohio is to retain jobs as economically it does not make sense. Very little money outlaid for a MDT truck.

Inline engines don't produce more torque than v engines per same bore and stroke. I guess this fallacy will never go away. Inline engines do have longer crankshafts which mean they are more prone to torsional deflection, hence they normally turn fewer rpm. Inline engines are naturally balanced, but v engines are counterbalanced. More cylinders also contribute to a smoother running engine. Inline engines do usually have smaller bores than strokes, to limit length, which does help produce more torque. However the Cummins in Dodge trucks have often had lower torque than GM and Ford engined trucks. I've seen trucks from Ford and Dodge with over 1 million miles, so to say one engine wont hold up is bullshat. It has been my experience that Dodge trucks themselves generally don't hold up as well as the others. Therefore, it doesn't matter how durable the engine is if the truck surrounding it is not.

@ I wanna see February sale numbers I think Ford and GM will plummet and RAM will gain again.

"Inline engines are naturally balanced, but v engines are counterbalanced. More cylinders also contribute to a smoother running engine."

@Tom,
with the above referenced statement from your comment, can we agree that you meant to say you are comparing engines with equal numbers of cylinders?

Even though four cylinder engines are often inline, they can be smoother than a V-4 or a boxer four.

The ratio of bore/stroke is key but so is the fact that an inline 4 simply has a short crankshaft no matter what the block configuration is.

Much of your above comment nailed it, but I wanted to get clear on the point about length of the crank being key, not block config. There's nothing magic about V-shaped blocks or boxers, or...

I was saying that even though inline engines are naturally balanced, v engines can be balanced with counterweights to run nearly as smoothly. As crank length goes, the 6.7 Cummins is definitely longer than the 6.7 Powerstroke. Plus the PS has 2 extra cylinders to boot. I would expect the PS to rev higher and run smoother, but don't have any numbers to back it up.



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