Is a Half-Ton Heavy-Duty Pickup Coming?

Group 1 II

By Tim Esterdahl

Half-ton pickup trucks have been getting stronger in terms of frame strength and towing capacity for the past several years. These improvements are pushing the limits on what a traditional half-ton truck is built for. Also, the substantial growth in three-quarter-ton towing capacity is creating a product gap. As a result, will we see more heavy-duty half-ton pickups in the market soon?

The growing use of high-grade steel has created a generation of pickups with stronger frames. This strength combined with new engine improvements leads to half-ton trucks being able to tow a substantial amount of weight. Throw in a larger engine, provide more suspension, beef it up and add better braking in these half-tons and you basically have the same specs of a three-quarter-ton truck from just a decade ago. This type of heavy-duty half-ton is perfect for the occasional hauler who doesn't need/want the larger HD. It also makes a lot of sense for Toyota and Nissan.

Heavy-Duty Versus Half-Ton

For the last few years, HD trucks have been increasing their towing capacity. The latest example of this is the new towing leader, the 2015 Ford F-450 with a maximum towing capacity of 31,200 pounds. In 2005 the same truck had a maximum tow rating of 16,700 pounds.

While, yes, the half-ton and three-quarter-ton segments are substantially different, there is a growing gap between the towing capacities where an HD half-ton could make sense. See the chart below.

HD Half-ton chart photo II

Beefed-Up Half-Ton

Let's state the obvious right here: A three-quarter-ton truck is vastly different from a half-ton. In most cases, the frame and parts are more akin to a locomotive than a car. This means manufacturers need dedicated production lines and parts suppliers to build them. This extra expense could be reduced with a half-ton HD package.

That means manufacturers like Toyota and Nissan that offer only light-duty pickups could bring a heavy-duty package option to their half-ton trucks. These trucks would have:

  • Stronger rear section of the frame
  • Larger axles and springs
  • Upgraded driveshaft parts
  • Tempered transmission and axle gears

In fact, the HD version could share the same production line with its half-ton counterpart and thus be cheaper to build. This would easily translate to more profits. Also, from a marketing/product lineup point of view, it essentially would provide those import players with more rugged-truck, work-truck credibility.

Toyota, Nissan HD Truck Plans

Last year an insider said Toyota was working on an HD half-ton. The speculation is the Tundra is basically already overbuilt and by making a few changes, Toyota could easily add an HD half-ton to its lineup. Plus, with Toyota's production limitations, it could add it to the San Antonio plant without making a huge investment. Lastly, with the Tundra's success/failure (depends on how you see it in the half-ton market) Toyota wouldn't have to try to compete in the competitive HD segment.

Nissan could also follow suit for the same reasons. Like Toyota, Nissan doesn't have the manufacturing facilities Ford, GM and Ram do. Plus, with the Titan getting the Cummins diesel it seems like it could be easily adapted as a heavy-duty hauler. This would bolster Nissan's reasoning for adding the Cummins diesel in the first place, and provide it with a unique item in a hot part of the truck market.

With a booming truck market and profits to be made, it seems increasingly likely that Toyota and Nissan would offer a product like this sooner rather than later.

The increased payload and towing means small/light recreational vehicle owners and toy towers (boats, all-terrain vehicles and others) would jump on it. Additionally, if those truckmakers are smart about pricing and keep it below average three-quarter-ton pricing, they could build a nice niche for themselves. Add to that some cab and or unique bed lengths, and the pool of new truck buyers would only get bigger.

Building a product to meet customers' changing needs, filling a gap in a limited lineup and steering clear of the Detroit Three's three-quarter-ton and one-ton competition seems like a no-brainer for Toyota and Nissan. Unfortunately, neither of these pickup players is good at taking big risks. However, not stepping into this arena may be an even bigger risk if they plan to be around for the long haul.

Cars.com images by Evan Sears; manufacturer images

(editor's note: spec information on the F-150 EcoBoost has been corrected in the data chart.)

F-150 HD

Ram 1500 Tradesman

 

Comments

It's been done before and both Nissan and Toyota have everything to gain by pulling 3/4 ton market share. Add to that the ED's heavier drive train and paltry payload drives the need. It's a tough sell to buy a heavily optioned $50k+ ED and be limited to an under 500lb payload.

I do see a market for a HD half ton especially when they are a Class 3.

This will fit in well with the EPAs regulatory changes due out in 2018.

Out of the Big 2 and the foreign pickup manufacturers Toyota and Nissan are the only two that appear to be looking seriously at a pickup to circumvent CAFE.

Maybe the other foreigner Fiat will produce a HD 1/2 ton pickup. Ram really need to produce some decent FE pickups.

Ford has stated it will use aluminium in the next HDs. So I would assume the next generation of Ford HDs will have their bodies based on the F-150.

Also, the Transit/Ducto/Euro style of truck could replace much of the 1/2 ton work trucks and do it producing far superior FE with the range of diesels on offer.

Uh, the HD 1/2 ton is already here. If anything, Ford and Ram are making a return to the light duty 1/2 ton with the 3.6 pentastar and the new 2.7 ecoboost...

Well really an HD 1/2 ton is not a half ton anymore, maybe a 5/8 Ton tuck is what it should be called.

Abso freakin lutely.
We need to be do doing more with less. That means smaller trucks that do more that are more durable.

Every Tundra I see that is used for work including my own is all dented to smithereens. Especially the tailgate. I don't see that kind of damage on any other truck.

The big diffrence remains GAWR. Thats where the HUGE diff between 1/2 and 3/4 exists. Make the tow rating whatever you like, but if 400 lbs of tounge weight puts your rear GAWR over... who cares?

These trucks would have:

Stronger rear section of the frame
Larger axles and springs
Upgraded driveshaft parts
Tempered transmission and axle gears

@PUTC

Wouldn't hubs, wheels and brakes require an upgrade too?

Chevy had a Silverado 1500 HD crew cab in the early 2000s. It didn't do very well. Customers found the cost too high and the ride too harsh. Curious to see what Toyota and Nissan do.

RAM's (or, Dodge Ram's) 1/2 tone Mega Cab, when it was manufactured - was a Heavy Half configuration. I wouldn't mind seeing it again in the upcoming new design......can't wait for 2017 to get here!!!

So what exactly qualifies it as a HD half-ton? The tow rating? I agree with others. We already have HD half-tons as far as towing capacity goes. What we need (those who actually work the trucks) is greater payload capacity and stronger/thicker sheet metal and bed. The sheet metal and the strength of the bed and tailgate are actually A LOT weaker on my 09 ram than my 96 f-150. Not sure if that is true for the current f-150, but my ram is pathetic in that aspect as well as payload. A quick search shows f-150 has over 3,000 pounds payload which seems sufficient to qualify as "hd", but ram needs to find a way to increase their payload. I can't vouch for the metal strength on the current f-150 or silverado (i've heard silverado has the weakest sheet metal of all), but I am really hopeful about the strength of the sheet metal and bed on the new f-150. They say with it being made of aluminum they can make it much thicker and stronger while still saving weight.

Toyota would not be the first. It's called the Heavy-Duty Payload Package on the F-150.

Also, the "insider" saying that Toyota is working on a HD Tundra is Tim E himself and uses his own site, a Tundra fanboy site as the source which only says a "rumor" has it that Toyota is working on one without any real info.

Then when he asks is it possible, he says well toyota the space shuttle. Seriously? That space shuttle tow has been mocked here. It was towed on a dolly that moved the trailer.

"We have all seen how the Tundra towed the 282,000 lb space shuttle (maybe this is how Toyota got the idea). If you believe the truck is strong enough to tow that, it is easy to consider building a production version. The truth is that Toyota likely learned a LOT about their truck from testing it to truly see what it is capable of."

Nothing to see here but Toyota fanboy daydreaming. Also, this daydream was to be for the 2014 Tundra which never happened.

GM offers a tow rating for their half tons above the tow rating you posted for a HD Ford F150. And GM will be J2807 compliant with those tow ratings. The HD half ton is already here but GM is the only manufacturer offering one.

Ford had a "heavy half" ton back in the 1990's and possibly prior to that. I had the heavy half in 1992 and 1995 models. You had to look at the GVWR/GCWR numbers on the door sticker to tell the difference at a glance. I don't recall how they accomplished the higher ratings, suspension or frame or what.

Wow @CT if there was truck racism you would be the Grand Master.

So much hate toward one brand of truck. Odds are whatever truck you drive is inferior to the Tundra and therefore you feel threatened. Your reaction is to spew vitrol and lies to try and take Toyota and Tundra down.

Insecurity must be a b*tch!


Ford already has an HD 1/2 ton. It has an 8200lb GVW. 2500lb +/- payload and 11,300 tow rating.

It wouldn't take much for any of them to beef up the suspension to carry an extra 7-800lbs. They all have inflated tow ratings but payload is lacking on most 1/2 tons.

It would be nice to see Toyota come out with a truck that had more payload capacity across the board. If this means going to an 8500 GVW to circumvent CAFE rules then so be it. Sort of a truck that is closer to a 3/4 ton then a half ton. Something with say 2400-2800 pounds payload capacity across ALL models/cabs/trims (not just the XYZ stripper model that no one buys). Something that could carry a light weight camper, will have more beef to compliment towing numbers from a safety point of view, etc. The Tacoma is already quite capable and with new engine technology would be more efficient to boot and so the Tundra isn't as distinguished over the Tacoma other then a few more features, more power, and more shoulder room.

The problem with half ton trucks as it currently stands is they don't have much more payload capacity then a typical SUV. And so you are always just on the edge if you want to move your family, a trailer, and some camping gear. Perhaps we are looking for a 7 lug?

Tim Esterdahl is editor of TundraHeadquarters, a Tundra fan site, and cherrypicked the specs and graph he used to make the basis of this article and has now flip flopped on regular cab short bed and crewcab long bed.

1) He listed the least capable ECOBOOSTs on the graph. The 4.10 EcoBoost RC is the Tremor which isn't made for towing. It is just RC EcoBoost for sport truck enthusiasts. If he was serious about the RC, he would have picked the work truck with the HD PayLoad.

2) Why use a regular cab short bed for the chart and future? Was that the only way he could make it appear that there were no HD trucks?

An earlier piece written by Tim said the Regular Cab was "DOOMED" and he predicted manufacturers could "stop building short-box regular cab trucks before the 2017 model year." Now the regular cab short bed is being used as a basis for his future truck???

4) In the HD are increasing their capability claim he cites the F-450 as an example for the increase which is a crewcab. Also, in his original piece where he started the rumor of the HD Tundra he said it should be a CREWMAX and that it could be a package added onto the truck.

5) I believe he flip flopped and used regular cab short bed here because that is the only cab and bed combo that could support his article of Tundra being the first HD light duty.

If he wanted to be completely honest he would have put one of the HD EcoBoosts, but that would have gone against his wish of Toyota be the first.

6) He lists the Future HD Half Ton as having 17kGCWR and 11k towing.

7) The Future is NOW:

3.5L EcoBoost V6 3.73 16900 - - - 11300‡

3.5L EcoBoost V6 3.73 17000 - - 11300*/‡ - - - - 11300* - -

3.5L EcoBoost V6 3.73 17100 - - - - - 11100*‡ - 11300*‡ - 11000*‡

3.5L EcoBoost V6 3.73 17000 - - 11300*/‡ - - - - 11300*


3.5L EcoBoost V6 3.73 17100 - - - - - 11100*‡ - 11300*‡ - 11000*‡


3.5L EcoBoost V6 3.73/4.10 17100 - - - - 11300* 11100* - - 11200* 11100*

*Requires Max. Trailer Tow Package

‡Heavy Duty Payload Package

What a lousy article written by a Toyota fanboy. Ford already has one of these on the market, both Chevy and Ram have in the fairly recent past offered something like this. The point is that it becomes a 3/4 ton truck when you try to make it an "HD Half Ton" and they have not been particularly popular.

Al I don't know what you're talking about but Ram currently has the most fuel efficient half tons. Their quad cab pentastar V6 truck is basically a mid size truck when it comes to fuel economy, it will probably offer the same fuel economy as GMs half assed colorado/canyon twins whenever they make it out into the market.

The current F-150 Ecoboost w/ 4.10 has 11,300lb tow capacity

GM now offers a 12,000 lb tow rating for their half ton and it is J2807 compliant where Ford and Ram cannot back their tow ratings. If that does not make it a HD half ton, then my 2006 3/4 ton with a 12,000 tow rating must not be a real HD truck.

I'll also add the 2014 Silverado meets or exceeds your "future" truck's GCWR and towing specs.

6.2L EcoTec3 V8 engine 4WD
3.73 Rear Axle
GCWR, 17700 lbs
Towing, 11800 lbs

Max Payload on the Silverado listed is down to 1,805.

However, you can get a F-150 with a HD Payload and 2,300 lbs payload, 11,000 lbs towing and 17100 GCWR.

The truth is out there, Tim! The truth will find you if you want to hear it.

funn how all of the big 3 fan boys ignore SAE towing standards that Toyota adopted years ago. Yet troll articles that have the word "Toyota Tundra" in them to brag about how much their POS trucks can "supposely" tow.

SAE is not being ignored. The Silverado Max Tow I listed above keeps the same 11,800 tow rating...

http://blogs.cars.com/files/2015-sierra-1500-towing-release-j2807-embargo-9-am-edt-061914.pdf

The F-150's I listed above are for 2014 without J2807, but the 2015 F-150's under J2807 will all increase in Max Tow and payload as has been stated countless times.

Tim E has been proven wrong twice. And if you want to include the 2012 Ram HD 1500, he is wrong a third time.

The problem with the article is he said will Tundra be first and then used questionable reporting practices for the comparisons and analysis. This is the kind of comparisons you usually see on manufacturer's websites where they try to make themselves look good and the competition bad.

If Tim wanted to do a HD half ton story, what Tim E should have done is report all the facts, and ask will Tundra be next?


Exactly. "Tim E" knows little of what he speaks of. Border line troll at best.


Also, there was no F-450 Pickup in 2005, except aftermarket. Just the cab/chassis F-450 that the OEM gives a low-ball tow rating, as they have no way of knowing what upfitter configuration it will have. Flatbed, cube/box, boom/bucket, wrecker, etc. 5th wheel or pintle attachment? Or how far a class 4 receiver hitch will be located past the rear axle. Many things to consider but the commercial division of the highway patrol can inspect and increase the legal tow rating of a medium duty truck.

@CT
I have been very hard on that site you mentioned as most of what they say is speculation that does not happen or is just flat our wrong. They are quick to bash other automakers but not be true journalist and stand up and Mike Sweers tough questions that challenges things he says that are wrong. So don't go off what they say.

Now as for a Tundra HD 1/2 Ton I would say No. It would take more resources to do for such a small segment. The money would be better used improving the 1/2 ton part. 1st thing should be weight reduction like Ford http://www.motortrend.com/future/concept_vehicles/1308_the_all_new_lexus_rc_f/ (not carbon fiber), next a full boxed frame with softer leaf springs like GM, next pass Ram and beat GM and Ford to the 10-speed auto as Toyota will be the first to have one http://wot.motortrend.com/1406_we_hear_lexus_sc_to_be_revived.html., then some Lexus RC F tech with D4S and Atkinson-cycle http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-lexus-rc-f-follows-up-on-remote-touch-interface-introduces-all-electric-cam-phasing-2014-detroit-auto-show/. Even with all of the tech that Toyota has been developing recently in weight reduction, gearing and more powerful and fuel efficient powertrains I expect none of it to make it's way to the Tundra for financial reasons. The big 3 throw the best they have at their pickups because it makes financial sense. If it made financial sense Toyota could have debuted a 3rd gen 5.7L Tundra that got 15/21 FE and 400+hp/420+lb ft. If it made financial sense maybe the Ford -Toyota hybrid partnership may have continued but what is the Tundra to Toyota their 5th or 6th best selling vehicle in North America and it is a North American vehicle only as well. Why would I believe their will be a heavy half ton from Toyota?

This news story is way off the mark.

The specs listed are pretty lame. Cherry picking at it s finest. Are the fanboys running the site too as opposed to just ruining the site????????????

As others have pointed out, Ford already makes a max cargo F150 with 7 lug wheels. The crew 4x4 version can carry 2,300 lb and with max tow will pull 11,300.

GM has an option 2,000 lb crew cab cargo option.

The author should of asked the more appropriate question...... Is Ram(1500), Toyota or Nissan going to MAN UP and build a HD 1500?

Nissan will go that route with the 5.0 Cummins, Toyota is also rumoured to be using that same engine in the future Tundra.

The only HD half-ton at the moment is the F150 with the max payload package... it used to be the light-duty F250 in 1997 when the light and heavy pickups were split apart.

The reason the domestics really don 't bother with it is simple - the 3/4-ton trucks aren't cost-prohibitive, and offer more power. The base V8 in a 3/4 is usually the top engine in a 1/2, or notably above what is available in the 1/2. A diesel 250/2500 will outrun its little brother 150/1500 *and* get better fuel mileage.

The compacts and midsize trucks have migrated (at least at Ford and Ram) to the half-tons, and those who used to buy half-tons are moving to 3/4s. Ram adding rear coils to the 2500 for ride quality will make that transition that much easier.

The reason these comment sections sucks is the Big Three Fanboys.

I don't drive a Big Three Truck, but I don't spew vitrol and hate with every fiber of my body at the mere mention of an F-150, or a Ram. I respect them for the trucks they are, even though I would never buy one.

Obviously the Big Three are still threatened by Toyota and the Tundra otherwise there wouldnt be so much hate. But the hate just confirms what I know that the Tundra is a very good and capable truck.

@ Lou_BC
The Cummins 5.0L V8 is interesting as are we sure it would be for a heavy half ton as with upcoming FE regulations around 2017/18 Toyota will come to a crossroads. In the future half tons will not be any cheaper to make because of FE regulations so what will Toyota do with their 2 truck strategy they have in North America.
1. Keep only the Tacoma.
2. Update both the Tacoma and Tundra.
3. Make the Tacoma more like the Hilux which could save money. Then make the Tundra a 3/4 ton with the 5.7L iforce and 5.0L Cummins V8 and skip those 1/2 ton FE regulations and keep building the Tundra they way they have using their "overbuilt" strategy.

The speculation is the Tundra is basically already overbuilt

I do not know but Toyota pick-up suffered from cracked frame when it`s use like a truck. I dont know what overbuild come from but I would say overpriced with a wimpy frame.
Toyota need a HD half ton pick up for those who use the truck to work.

Sung to the tune of Do You Feel Like We Do by Peter Frampton

Well, woke up this morning with a wine glass in my hand.
Whose wine? What HD Tundra? Where the hec did I just write?
Must have been a dream I don't believe what I just wrote.
Come on, let's do it again.

Do you...you, feel like an ITBC?
How'd ya feel Mike Sweers?
Do you...you, feel like more payload?

GUTS

GLORY

THE HEAVY DUTIEST HALF TON BUILT

RAM

@JoBlow
I am sorry since the tundra already has a half ton SAE Tow Rating it already can work.

In 2017/18 the next Tundra will debut. What would be interesting is if it is a 1/2 or 3/4 ton as with upcoming fuel regulations they will have to either cancel the Tundra gain or lose weight. http://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-tundra-next-major-update-in-2018-69142.html
The 5.0L V8 Cummins Tundra is supposed to debut around 2017 http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news/2014/163_news140212_report_toyota_vp_carter_hints_cummins_v8_being_considered_next_tundra/. Now that is interesting as we know the Titan will use it in 1/2 ton but maybe the Tundra will use in 3/4 ton as that is how Ram and Ford shared the 6.7L Cummins with Ram 2500-5500 and Ford F650 and F750. Through Hino Toyota already has a truck 5.0L diesel hybrid that people always wanted to know if it would make it's way to a Tundra in some way http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/07/new-hino-coe-sport-diesel-electric-hybrid.html. Now with all that said this stuff is so far away that nobody knows what Toyota will do. Any mechanical changes are likely for a 4th gen Tundra which s really funny because the 2nd gen Tundra was billed as "The truck that's changing it all" and the 3rd gen Tundra is "The truck that barely changed at all."

FLASHBACK:

2012 Ford F-150 Expected to Feature Improved Payload Capacity
Posted by Mike Levine | July 20, 2011
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/07/2012-ford-f-150-expected-to-feature-improved-payload-capacity.html

...maximum payload capacity will increase from 2,000 pounds to 2,590 pounds for the two-wheel-drive model with the 6-foot-5-inch cargo box and 1,890 pounds to 2,340 pounds for the four-wheel-drive version.

Heavy-Duty Half-Tons are Familiar Territory
Posted by Mark Williams | November 4, 2011
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/11/heavy-duty-half-tons-are-familiar-territory.html

GM, near the beginning of the four-full-size-door craze almost 20 years ago, realized it didn’t have enough crew-cab models in its half-ton (or compact pickup) lineup, and that seemed to be where all the big market gains were coming from at the time. To bridge that gap temporarily, while the latest version of the half-ton GMT800 crew-cab models were production-constrained, Chevy used a 2500 crew-cab platform and skinned it with the more familiar half-ton sheet metal and called it the Chevy Silverado 1500 HD.

Ford also experimented with a more work-designed half-ton platform and incorporated some interesting bed solutions as well, like this cool midbox option. The heavy-duty payload package was part of the F-150 choices for several years...

FLASHBACK:

Is the Regular Cab Pickup Doomed?
Posted by Mark Williams | April 17, 2013
Written By Tim Esterdahl

ultimately cause the regular cab pickup to disappear

stop building short-box regular cab trucks before the 2017 model year.

The Case for Regular Cabs: Not So Good

About 90 percent of truck buyers opt for double cabs or crews. This is why Nissan decided against building a regular cab Titan from the beginning, and why it dropped the regular cab Frontier in 2002.

manufacturers will get rid of or severely reduce their half-ton regular cab offerings before the 2017 model year. In fact, it could happen sooner.

Toyota could be first

- "Tim E."

@Dave - you raise a valid point that HD 1/2 tons have been around a long time.

The whole compact, small. mid, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton etc. nomenclature has been meaningless as a capacity descriptor for decades.
Those terms describe general classes and that is about it. Lines have gotten blurred.

Did Tim E try to sneak through this "TundraHeadquarters" piece on PUTC?

This kind of story might work on a Tundra fan blog, but if you post that here you will be eviscerated.

You guys want to see trolling and bias?!!! Try reading any other Tundra report here!

Seriously, the trolling in reporting and "Subjective" portion of these tests have impacted the results by a great deal!

Ford got bonus points for the man step in 2008.

Then no Tundra in the 2011 V6 shootout? The excuse given was it had an "accident."

The latest example of bias was when the 2013 shootout was timed exactly so the Tundra would show up with a 2013 and not the ALL-NEW 2014 Tundra. But they made sure to get a 2014 Chevy!

Finally, the review of the 2014 Tundra went out of way to be very NEGATIVE towards the Tundra!

This stuff gets to be annoying!

The anti-Tundra bias, jealousy, slander and haters are alive and well on this website!

I am glad that finally someone like Tim Esterdahl is here to talk Tundra and use his first amendment RIGHTS to speak out and keep the BIG 3 owners in check AND stand up for Tundra owners!

I think big 3 owners really resent the Tundra and are scared of what is coming with the 2017 and 2018 NEXT GEN ALL NEW HD HALF TON TUNDRA!

2014 Ford F-150 4x2 Reg Cab , 145" WB , 3.73 axle has a max payload of 3120 lbs and with the 3.5 V6 EB has a max towing of 11,300 lbs.

Towing capacity

It pulled the space shuttle...so, yeah, it can handle your trailer and boat. 13 Tundra is available in six models that can tow more than five tons, 8 and 4x2 Regular Cab Long Bed with available 5.7L V8 has an available towing capacity of up to 10,500 lbs.

http://www.toyota.com/tundra/#!/features

Mission Accomplished. A stock half-ton Toyota Tundra tows 145-ton Space Shuttle Endeavour across LA's 405 freeway. Watch it happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpCJ-H0iUzI

It pulled the space shuttle...so, yeah, it can handle your trailer and boat!

It did pull it, it didn't have any tongue weight on it. and it was flat ground. Kind of like I can push my 5,600lbs truck with one finger in on my flat garage floor.

I'm proud to drive my Tundra. Most people are shocked when I tell them it towed the space shuttle. Next time anyone tells me a Tundra will get damaged, I will show them this video!

This Tundra is seriously a BEAST!

Brian C
I don't have a problem with the Tundra, its a great pickup, I have a problem with the local Toyota Dealers.
crooks
rip offs
don't honor warranty
lifetime dealer warranty worthless
charge too much for oil change
idiot service techs
waiting room restroom dirty
never have Saturday hours for service
double bill (paid for service then they sent me the same bill in the mail but I had to travel there and PROVE to them I paid it, never a "sorry" or "thank you")
they want a higher price for genuine Toyota accessories than the Toyota MSRP price.
no coffee, not even water cooler or a drinking fountain in the waiting room
grease and exhaust smell in the waiting room
never a loaner car

@DenverMike,
Tim Esterdahl is not a troll. He really knows his stuff and not just trucks!

But don't just ake my word for it.

2014 Toyota Highlander Review
BY TIM ESTERDAHL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38kn2O67hiw

This is some great work here.

Tim, Where is the 2014 Tundra video and can you post it on PICKUPTRUCKS.COM?

Tim Esterdahl reviews the 2014 Lexus LS 460 and falls in love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fUoSLZM9qU

Doesn't the term "half-ton heavy duty" become an oxymoron when today's half-ton trucks carry and pull as much as yesterday's one-ton models? There's really no need to even try to differentiate them any more especially when the 1-ton heavy-duty starts overlapping the class five medium duty capabilities. Why have an F-150/-250/-350 when they're all the same only with different suspensions under them? Yes, I know some will argue that each one also has a different frame, but again I have to ask why, when they ALL look identical to the others except when you add the dual-wheel axles. There simply isn't any reason to label them six ways from Sunday any more.

The F-150/1500 trucks should be the light duty trucks--period. Carry no more than 1000 pounds PLUS driver and tow no more than 6,000 pounds. Anything more is ridiculous.
The F-250/2500 trucks should be the middle-grade truck they used to be, capable of no more than 1500 pounds PLUS driver and tow 7500 pounds.
The F-350 should be, by title, the "heavy duty" truck able to carry that 2000 pounds PLUS driver and tow 9000 pounds. You could still let the dual-wheel axle be an option for towing boat, horse or auto trailers but if you want to tow more than 9000 pounds, then dog-gone it go to a true medium-duty truck that's built for those kinds of loads.

Let the trucks label be a true indicator of capability again (though I acknowledge that the ratings were blurred even in the '70s) and quit with the over-rating of the different truck types.

I'd like to say a few quick things. First, as many have pointed out there was a typo when the graph was put into the article. I'm told it is being corrected.

Secondly, Mark and I kicked around this idea a bit and wanted to write a story about it. The facts are with the new Nissan Titan with the diesel, Toyota's capacity issue, competition in the HD market all add up to the timing seeming right to offer a half-ton HD from them.

Third, if I made it sound like GM, Ford or Ram needed to offer a HD half-ton, my apologies. I do not think that would be a wise investment.

As for the fan boy stuff, yes I got my start with TundraHeadquarters and I am still the editor over there. I don't own the site, I am an employee if you will. I will probably never be able to convince anyone I am not a fan boy, so I don't think I will try. However, I would like to say that I really, really enjoy trucks and learning/writing about them. Do I have all the answers? Nope. Do I make mistakes? Yep. But, I do try really hard to be 100% accurate and write articles that are interesting and ask questions.

Thanks for reading,
-Tim

I really do think some of the commenters can't comprehend very well.

Read the first two paragraphs. What does Tim put forward?

So, he isn't making any assumptions that the "FUTURE" pickups will become HDs, as he's already stated that they indeed have become more HD like.

So, some of you guys who are jumping up and down on how there are already HD half ton pickups is exactly what Tim has stated.

He goes on to mention that HDs are built like a locomotive in comparison to a 1/2 ton.

But, what he's stating is what I've stated in that I think the next Tundra/Titan will be a 1/2 ton when you don't have a 1/2 ton. They will be engineered stronger than existing half ton pickups.

Will this change move them out of a Class2 and into a Class 3?

Changes are occurring in the US pickup market and it seems the manufacturers all are gambling on what direction to head in with the pickup due to the changes brought on by CAFE.

If CAFE is draconian, why not move the vehicle up a bracket?



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