Ram EcoDiesels Set Brisk Sales Pace

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Ordering for Ram's optional 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6 in half-ton pickup trucks started in March and sales seem to be going strong. According to Automotive News, initial orders totaled more than 10,000 units and even today pickups with those engines are on dealer lots about 13 days or less. That's not bad when you consider that the engine is an extra $2,850 and is often packaged with higher-trim-level packages that can cause a truck to ring up in excess of $50,000.

The EcoDiesel, to date, offers the best highway fuel economy in the half-ton segment at 28 mpg with a torque rating of 420 pounds-feet of torque at 2,000 rpm (but only 240 horsepower).

Automotive News also notes that the Italian VM Motori factory that produces the engine can make about 100,000 engines annually, with the potential to send half of those to the U.S. for either the Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV or the Ram 1500. So far, the take rate for the Grand Cherokee with the EcoDiesel is estimated to be about 15,000 units by the end of 2014, which theoretically leaves 35,000 engines available for the Ram 1500.

It's likely to take some time (possibly another 12 months) to find out what the take rate will be for the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel, but it sounds like discussions between Jeep, Ram and VM Motori may already be in place.

Manufacturer image

 

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Comments

It will be interesting to watch the long-term take rate on the EcoDiesel. Is it simply the case of pent up customer demand for a half-ton diesel that is driving early sales or will it continue to sell long-term?

Well, according to Turbo Yoda, this engine is crap because it has a turbo. You will be replacing the turbo at 150k miles and it will cost you $5,000 at a minimum. Why would anyone make an engine with a turbo it. You should all listen to Turbo Yoda's wisdom and steer clear of this truck.

Old news.

Quote from the linked article:
"We got well in excess of 10,000 orders in just the first few days that we opened this thing up, and that ordering and demand has really sustained its"

It's simply a case of being some demand, but they are still quoting the 8,000+ dealer orders that were ordered the first few days. Now they are rounding it up to 10,000+.

As papa jim stated, "Dealers order. Buyers buy." How many have been bought by buyers? What is actual demand. Nobody cares about dealer inventory orders.

They don't all sell in 13 days or less or there would be no inventory out there. My dealer has the same ecodiesels he has had for awhile now.

Ram officials keep repeating the "initial order" numbers by the dealers. How many have sold? This is what needs to be found out!

Well, according to Turbo Yoda, this engine is crap because it has a turbo. You will be replacing the turbo at 150k miles and it will cost you $5,000 at a minimum. Why would anyone make an engine with a turbo it. You should all listen to Turbo Yoda's wisdom and steer clear of this truck.

Posted by: ALL1 | Jul 7, 2014 12:04:02 PM


That is not the case with RAM trucks. it only applies Ford Eco Boost powerered trucks. That's a fact Jack!

Best MPG with the worst payload/towing in the half-ton segment. And they aren’t even SAE standard J2807 certified yet.

No Guts
No Glory
Italian Diesel Engine in the 1500s
Fiat Owned
Foreign junk

No surprises here. RAM took a calculated risk with the EcoDiesel powertrain both in timing and the engine itself. The demand for torque and economy is still strong. I sell commercially for Ford and enjoy this demand on a daily basis.

@zviera's Disciple: share your evidence and check the scoreboard sir. Ford will continue to outsell RAM by a country mile- that's a fact Jack!

"We got well in excess of 10,000 orders in just the first few days that we opened this thing up, and that ordering and demand has really sustained itself" - Reid Bigland

Translation: Dealers pre-ordered all of our ecodiesels in just the first few days the order banks opened, and months later that dealer pre-rodering has sustained iself because the trucks were not ordered by buyers.

@zviera's Disciple: share your evidence and check the scoreboard sir. Ford will continue to outsell RAM by a country mile- that's a fact Jack!

Posted by: fleetwhisperer | Jul 7, 2014 12:24:39 PM

More sales don't mean squat. RAM is the best thing going right now. They are nipping at GM's heels and are gunning for Ford next. Ford's inflated sales figures are largely based on heavily discounted fleet sales.

@ zviera's Disciple


So what you are saying is that foreign made Italian turbos from VM Motori are better than American made Borger Warner and Garret turbos? I bet your UAW buddies would love to hear you say that.

GUTS

GLORY

SETTING BRISK SALES PACE

THE DEMAND IS OVERWHELING

SELLING OUT IN 10 DAYS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTY

NEED MORE ECODIESELS ASAP

RAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GUTS

GLORY

RAISING THE BAR IN ALL CATAGORIES

OVERTAKING THE COMPETITION

WINNING HEARTS ALL ACROSS THE USA

RAM ECO DIESEL, HEMI, RAM HD, RAM LD, CUMMINS RAM

Hey, Hemi, Hemi V8, Big Daddy Ram, or whatever multiple names you choose use at the moment.

You should jump on zviera's Disciple. He is saying that Italian workers make products better than your fellow North American UAW workers. Are you gonna take that?

^people bought all sorts of GM trucks before they were J2807... Matter of fact, the 2014s aren't certified, just the new 2015 1500 low riders.

Last I checked, the 2015 1500s aren't out, so GMs are still over rated. When the 2015 Rams come out, they will beJ2807.

@ALL1: turbos can last, if taken care of properly. At least the Ram doesn't put out a turbo'd engine that people get mid guided on and they think they can run everywhere and do everything on CHEAP gas, when they know the higher octane gives better performance. But hey keep running cheap stuff, and by all means, especially if you have a tuner, so you can mislead people into thinking 87 octane does it all because "it's direct injected".

By the amount of people having Ecoboost issues, you would think they hardly tested them, maybe they DID know of their issues at Ford, but chose to lie? Nah, Ford would never do that....yeah, right!

Diesel, because there is one to pick from at the station, not, "well gee, that guy on the 'net says we don't need higher octane" while the manual says....

The manual says it is a way for Ford to cover their asses because people get by on cheap fuel, and have issues.

Wait til all these Egoboosts get to being worked on by non Ford shops, Ford can't even figure them out.

You will be destined to drop it off at the Stealerships, and let them rip you off.

By the way, Ford Ecoboosts suck gas down unless driven in an easy manor. More Egoboost drivers are way short on mileage.

Some buyers want a large noisy smelly diesel they can tow their trailer with.

Other buyers want a small, quiet and fuel-sipping diesel that gets the mpg that overseas buyers enjoy.

This truck offers nothing to either primary segment, only to a niche of uniformed people who would be happy with anything as long as they could tell everyone they have a diesel regardless of its capabilities or lack thereof.

@TRX-4 Tom


I 2 as being sarcastic about the turbos since you buddy zvierra (aka Turbo Yoda) seems to be the turbo expert and says they won't get past 150k miles. His little b!tch, I mean disciple is now saying that it is only American made Borg Warner and Garrett turbos that suck and the Italians can make better quality turbos than American workers and engineers.


Thanks buddy, I'll keep using my 87 octane. It hasn't done my truck wrong for 70k miles or our work trucks that are creeping up on 150k miles. Although I am wondering when this engine failure that you speak of for running 87 octane is going to happen. Although, I don't know how on earth you would think that I would take what you, a person that has never owned an Ecoboost or have done real world testing on one, say as the truth. Like I told the rest of your crew, would you believe me if I said the Hemi was just and it wouldn't last more than 150k miles even though I have never owned or tested one? Then what makes you think what you say about the Ecoboost is worth the time it took you to type it? It's not, and if you think it is and that I would actually take what a biased Ram fan boy has to say about a Ford engine he has never even driven the you are dumber than a box of rocks. Don't be that dumb Tom. I know you smarter then that.

@ zviera's Disciple

I did the math for you Ram guys and your still way closer to Toyota than GM and GM is way closer to Ford than Ram.
"We all know that Ford moves the most units the current numbers are 365,825.

Now I read that GM is getting their butt handed to them with 333,870 units moved. Down 31,955 units to Ford.

Ram checks in at 203,860 units moved. Now that's 161,965 units to Ford and 130,010 to GM.

Toyota trucks combined is 133,136 units. Now that is 70,724 units less than Ram. Which means Ram is still closer to Toyota than closer to GM and certainly Ford."

On top of that GM shot themselves in the foot with the government motors bad press and the bad press from all of the recalls. Ram has throwing everything at GM from new tech and incentives and a much better marketing campaign and are still closer to Toyota. If I were GM I would be aiming at changes to keep my platforms closer to 15+ F-Series or pass them in sales. Weight reduction, 8-speed auto and start stop for the 1500 full size Light Duty platform. New Duramax coming after the 15 model year interior and exterior refresh for the full size HD platform. Most importantly the addition of a 3rd truck platform (midsize) an area where Ford and Ram don't compete and they will have the freshest product. If I were an Exec. at GM I would be looking through the windshield at Ford and not the rear view mirror at Ram. "Object may not be as close as it appears." Ray Lewis said it best "Only a fool trips on whats behind them." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZffmaQi_Tc0

@MaXx: it would do wonders for Toyota to have a diesel in their Tacos, like a 4 cylinder, because this one would break a Tacoma front end, but hey, what does Toyota care? Their little v-6s can't even get the gas mileage a full size Ram or Chevy can get with a v-6.

I would guess you have yet to see see one in person, so you just ASSume they are noisy? They aren't, nor is 3.0 liter large.

Maybe they will make a regular cab shortbed version for you, 4x2 form, you would see 30 mpg on a regular bases, but you would still complain.

MaXx, maybe you are waiting for a Prius Camino?

When will this motor be available in the Charger?

I ain't gonna waste my time on you much, ALL1. I have driven two Ecoboosts, so right off the bat you are wrong with your ASSumption. One in Lawton, OK, one in Republic, MO. (Both with dealers telling you what route to go on, don't get on a bumpy road!)

That truck isn't all it's made out to be.

Are you blind? You don't see the issues people have with 1 the inter cooler, 2 head gaskets, 3 timing chains?

Keep living a blind life and running 87 and acting like a higher octane does it no better. The uneducated will follow you, unfortunately.

Re the "only" 240 HP comment in the article, many 18-wheeler diesel engines with huge torque numbers don't have much more horsepower than that. The torque is the more important number in these engines.

@TRX Tom


Ate you blind, you don't see the ticking lifter issues these Hemi's have. I mean, I even showed you videos of grenaded engines.

Truth is, you are going to see what you want to see to fit you predetermined mindset. You are going to go out of your way to find what you can because a) you already have the mindset that an Ecoboost is bad and b) because your a majorly biased toward Ram so it compels you to look at everything else besides Ram as being bad. The percentage rate of issues is small compared to how man F150 with Ecoboost have been sold. You have to remember that Ford sales a whole lot more F150s than Ram does 1500s every year so there are way more out there. I would bet that the percentage of issues compared to how many sold is no different than any other engine. There is also the fact that it is a new engine. You seem to forget how many Hemi's issues and blown engines there when they came out in 2003? Go ahead, give a Google. Did Dodge finally get them straightened out? Yes, although even the 2009 and up had some and still are having issues with lifters. Does that mean the Hemi is a crap engine? No, that does not because the issue is not with every Hemi engine. Same goes with the Ecoboost, but your bias is blinding you to that. All you see is that everything else besides a Ram product is crap without even giving it a fair shake so why would I listen to what you have to say about my truck? That is like a black guy listening to and ignorant racist who automatically hates people without even knowing them, and believing what he says.

Anybody that says ecoboosts are having lots of problems don't know what they are talking about. I have 4 close and personal friends that have had an ecoboost for two years or more. All of them love their trucks and all of them have been trying to convince me to get one. One of them is a long-time chevy guy that finally switched to a ford. Then there are many other acquaintances of mine that drive them and the only complaint I've heard is some say that it "gets the same mileage or doesn't get much better mileage than other trucks" Although most i've talked to say they get great mileage. I often cruise the ford forums to see what owners are saying about the ecoboost, and the overwhelming majority love them and recommend them, more so than the owners of ram and chevy on other forums I browse. The fact is the ecoboost has proven to be relatively reliable (certainly at least average or better reliability) and relatively efficient. Of course there's a few guys that have had their problems, but relatively very few and relatively small problems. I haven't heard of a single bad turbo or a single bad engine. Only minor intercooler problems that have been resolved without a major repair and some blown head gaskets (almost exclusively on engines that have been modified in some way). Dummies complaining about turbos simply don't know what they are talking about. These trucks have been out what almost 4 years now? So far all indications are that the ecoboost is a reliable and efficient engine. End of story.

Regarding 240hp

As long as there is enough gears to keep rpm near peak torque while towing/hauling hp isn't a big concern on a diesel.

On my test drive with 4 adults in the crewcab slt 3.0 diesel I found the 8 speed to be a good enough match in this application to say 240hp is good enough with the 8 speed.

I still haven't seen anymore of these trucks since the 3 back in april/may.

A turbo in a diesel is a much different animal than a turbo in a gas engine!
A internal combustion engine is a air pump, the diesel is a more powerful air pump cause the compression is 4 or 5 times higher than a gas engine. The diesel requires more air to run so it needs a turbo, without it the diesel wouldn't run, (or run at low power)
The eco-boost uses 2 turbos on separate engine banks so its very important they must be calibrated to run exactly the same or the left engine bank may produce less power pulling the right bank along for the ride.
Simular to the Harley Davidson V Twin engine design where the rear cyl drags down cause it gets less cooling and the front cyl has to do extra work dragging the rear cyl with it.
One turbo is better than two turbos .
You learned something new today
tell your friends what I told you, they will be impressed!

"That's not bad when you consider that the engine is an extra $2,850 and is often packaged with higher-trim-level packages that can cause a truck to ring up in excess of $50,000."

The engine is $2,350 and the 8-speed is $500. Once the 6-speed automatic is gone (likely for 2015 models), that $500 will no longer be a factor.

You should still point out the diesel is available in every trim level (including the base Tradesman) except the Sport and Express, since those are aimed at the sport truck market. A Ram 1500 Tradesman diesel is surprisingly affordable for a business owner or someone who doesn't need all the bling.

@Tom 3

You're confused on one point. TWO is better than one.

One can boost high rpm operation and the other can boost midrange operation.

The two can boost the same plenum--shared by the respective banks of cylinders, can't they?

Has anybody been able to crack the encryption on these to tune?

I have not seen one of these diesel pickups on the road and I just did a trip from Pennsylvania to Nevada and back. But I did see many of the new GM suvs everywhere. Why does this site push so many articles about vans but not the full size suvs? The suvs are closer to the pickup then the vans.

They should consider building the VM 3.0L in the USA.

The 1992 D2500 5.9L was 180HP and 400 pound-feet of torque. It was slow but it would pull your house down the road. As for me and my house I would not buy a RAM if it had 500 HP and 1500 PFT and got 40mpg. I think there is something to be said about anyone that buys a product made in a country holding one of our Soldiers hostage. That leaves me with a choice of Ford, Toyota or Nissan. Since my 1988 F150 XLT Lariat is still running strong I can wait and see how the aluminum F150 holds up over the next year or so and then pay cash for one. Since it may be the last truck I ever buy I need to make sure the quality is still there.

@beebe--I know someone as well that has a 2011 F-150 EcoBoost extended cab and loves it--no problems. After 3 years if there were any problems I would have heard about them from him. There are just too many fan boys on this site.

My 2014 Sierra got 28 mpg on the highway over the weekend on 87 octane at $3.25 gallon compared to $3.99 for diesel and I didn't have to fill my def tank lol

@ Ryan

Bullcrap, your Sierra isn't getting anywhere near 28 MPG.

Ryan
I believe you and I have a friend with a 2014 Ram 4x4 Hemi that's getting 19 MPG.
F-150 owners as myself are jealous
Engine deactivation works
turbo-charging doesn't work and it breaks my heart that Ford never gave up yet on turbo-charging and joined the club with engine deactivation is the best way for good gas mileage.
Ford? I beg you! Bring back the 5.4 V8 with engine deactivation and it will be a success! Going to a smaller 2.7 eco-boost and building a truck from aluminum isn't the answer, you're covering up a mistake with a bigger mistake!

@Tom#3

I think you are a bit confused on how the parallel twin turbo set up is on the Ecoboost. I think you are thinking that since there is a turbo on each side, then each turbo is responsible for the air going into each cylinder bank based on this statement.

"The eco-boost uses 2 turbos on separate engine banks so its very important they must be calibrated to run exactly the same or the left engine bank may produce less power pulling the right bank along for the ride."

That is not how how most parallel twin turbo set ups like the Ecoboost works. The turbos on each cylinder bank only use the exhaust from each cylinder bank to spin, but the boost that is spooled is joined in the intercooler before it gets to the throttle body.

Exhaust gases spin the turbine side(exhaust side) of the turbo which in turn spins the compressor side (intake side) of the turbo creating a suction of air at the air filter. Both turbos feed from the same intake air filter and then a split in the piping sends the air to either turbo. The boost of both turbos gets joined in the intercooler. The intercooler cools the air down since compressing air increases it's temperature.(this is where the Ecoboost had problems since the intercooler did it's job too well cooling the moist air into water) From the intercooler, the boosted air gets sent to the throttle body which is of course is connected to the air intake manifold that feeds each cylinder just like any other engine. After combustion in the cylinder and the gas is exhausted out to exhaust manifold, it then hits the turbine side of the turbo to start the process all over again.

The path of the air goes like this: intake air filter housing-----> compressor side of the turbos----> boost from each turbo is joined at the intercooler ----> throttle body ------> intake manifold -------> cylinders -------> exhaust manifold -------> turbine side of the turbos.

So you see, just because there is a turbo on each side does not mean it is only supplying boost to that side. It is just using the exhaust of that side, but the boost from each is being joined in the intercooler essentially acting as one turbo. The reason for this set up is that it allows for two smaller turbos that are able to spool up quicker then having one big turbo that has increased turbo lag.

@Chris- “ My dealer has the same ecodiesels he has had for awhile now. …”

Chris if you were twice as smart, you'd still be stupid.

Your dealer has the same Ecodiesel, it’s because they are selling so well that most “smart” Dealers are holding on to at least one, so they can have customers test drive them. You see there are still a lot of boneheads out there that have never left the trailer. They think that a diesel has to be noisy, dirty and needs 500 Hp….lol. These bonehead forget that the 2000 250 Ford 7.3-liter V-8 (diesel) had 235-hp. Or that the 2000 GMC Sierra 2500 was making 195-hp, out of the 6.5-liter V-8. Those trucks were workhorses and that was not so long ago. They were also noisy, heavy and dirty.

Now apparently 240 Hp is not enough for you girls. In my neck of the woods they can’t get Ecodiesel’s in fast enough, they are flying off the lot. And the good Dealers have at least one of them to allow you to test drive it. Once you drive it you want it!

I’m no Fiat fanboy, but I got to give them credit for being first out of the gate. As far as the quality of the engine, all I can say is that diesel engines have been a staple in Europe for years, if anyone can build them the Europeans can.

BTW – the $2,800 premium for the engine has a payback of about 3 years (do the math it’s not that hard).

BTW – You can negotiate the price so that the $2,800 difference is reduced....Ford charges $1,500 for a f$ck’n sunroof and who needs that...lol

BTW – Ford and GM are about to get another kick in the ass by Nissan with the diesel Titan

BTW – Ford and GM are about to get another kick in the ass by Toyota with the diesel Tundra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o2p89EHUuA

@Tom#3

I would really like to meet this guy that can get 19 mpg combined in a Hemi. My sister can't even get that in here 2wd Hemi with 3.21 gears and she drives like a grandma. Now, she can get that on the highway cruising 70 mph and so can I in my 4x4 3.73 Ecoboost, but no where near 19 mpg combined. Hell, that is even better than the EPA estimates of the combined mpg by 2 mpg. My work truck Ecoboost on the other hand gets 19-20 mpg combined, but it is a 2wd with 3.15 gears.

@Tom#3 - That's great Tom maybe your sister can take all the money she is saving on gas and invested in a new Turbo Charger....her ecobust will be needing one soon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZq9mkQ2_ls

ALL1
This is a brand NEW 2014 Ram 4x4 Quad cab with the 5.7 Hemi, maybe your sister has the older Ram w/o engine deactivation.
I work with this guy so I hear about it almost everyday and he constantly harasses me about my 2013 F-150 and I keep telling him:
I HAVE THE 5.0 V8 - NOT THE ECO-BOOST
I HAVE THE 5.0 V8 - NOT THE ECO-BOOST
I HAVE THE 5.0 V8 - NOT THE ECO-BOOST

he drives me C-R-A-Z-Y when he says his Ram gets better gas mileage than my eco-boost
so I tell him again:
I HAVE THE 5.0 V8 - NOT THE ECO-BOOST
I HAVE THE 5.0 V8 - NOT THE ECO-BOOST
I HAVE THE 5.0 V8 - NOT THE ECO-BOOST

@Tom#3

Wow, growing a pair of balls might help your situation.

BTW, Her's is a 2013 Ram 8 speed Laramie with 3.21 gears. So yes it has cylinder deactivation and she still doesn't get 19 mpg combined. Next time you are around your friend ask him what gear ratio he has in his truck.

@Tom#3

Actually, on second thought, please go to the nearest dealer and trade your truck for anything other than a Ford as soon as possible. If you don't have the testicular fortitude to handle that guy at your work, then you don't have what it takes to own a Ford. So please, trade it in for a Ram at the nearest dealership. Maybe then you will feel more at home with people just like you.

One turbo is less expensive than two.
RAM won again.

@TRX-4 Tom - admittedly, your Ecoboost drives were test drives under the eye of a salesman and very short in nature.

I drove a V6 Pentastar Ram this summer on a test drive.

Does that make me an expert on the truck?

I had a loaner Ecoboost SuperCrew for 9 days this winter. Great power but in -25C to -35C, deep snow and a "drove it like I stole it" approach it was just as hard on fuel as my 5.4.

BUT it was considerably more powerful than my 5.4. It had many similarities i.e. lots of down low torque and it doesn't perform as well at high RPM.

The only thing I did not like about the truck was the e-locker.

So tell me what you learned about the EB3.5 in your supervised test drive?

@Chris: "As papa jim stated, 'Dealers order. Buyers buy.' How many have been bought by buyers? What is actual demand. Nobody cares about dealer inventory orders."

While I might agree with you in general, I might point out that I, specifically, special-ordered my last two brand-new vehicles. Why? Because the dealership simply didn't carry the vehicles with the equipment and in the colors I wanted. Odds are my next vehicle will be special-ordered as well, because dealers MAKE certain option packages popular whether a buyer wants it or not. In the last 20 years, not once has a dealership had in stock what I really wanted and I finally had enough of it and ordered the model and equipment I wanted. In both cases the vehicle has met my needs almost perfectly across the board.

I was reading some of the comments and just shaking my head. The comment about turbos on engines being crap, big trucks have turbos and the run for millions of miles. Re: Ford truck sales, I follow truck and car sales every month. In June Ford dropped truck sales by 11% Ram up 11.8 with Silverado gaining .06%. The numbers don't lie, Ram did a near 23% gain on Ford. I have one more note for the Ram haters, this engine was developed for the Cadillac and is real good technology. Here in Canada in 2014, Ram is up 4.8% Ford is down 3.8%, Silverado down 1.2% & Sierra down 6%. My point being hate all you want but there are a lot of Rams being sold with the bulk moving from Ford. I have several friends with Rams from the early 2000's and they have had little to no problems.

GUTLESS
GLORYLESS
WHINING ABOUT RAM'S SUCCESS
INSANELY JEALOUS
SUPPORT THE INFERIOR ECO BOOST PLAGUED WITH PROBLEMS
BLIND FORD TRUCK FANS

They say 13 days inventory and that seems about right. looking at cars.com there are hardly any near my and less than 2k in the US available, so it seems that all the initial orders have sold. Looking at dodges inventory on their site and on cars.com As a comparison cars.com shows more that 49k gas 1500's out there so they seem to have most of the dealer inventory online. The dealers around me seem to only have 1 in stock each and they are super expensive fully loaded versions.

@Lou BC

Why didn't you like the e-locker?

All1 Stop trying to compare turbocharged diesel engines with turbocharged gasoline engines, you look stupid. The lower EGTs on diesels is exactly why they are so well suited to using turbos. The higher EGTs on gasoline engines are the source of nearly all of the maintenance problems people have had with turbos in the past. If you took a statistical sample of ecodiesel and ecoboost trucks you will be almost guaranteed to see the ecodiesel turbos last longer. There is a reason why turbo timers have always been the best way to go with gasoline powered turbos. If you want to promote Ford and beat up on Ram there are dozens of better ways to do so, the tactic you have chosen is just plain ridiculous.

Banks did a big article on this engine after Ram announced it would be selling them in their truck. They ordered 3 of them and disassembled one of them and showed the internals and they say that engine internal parts are about the same size as the Duramax diesel. They said they were impressed how stout is was for such a small engine. Plus it's been used in Europe for that last 4 years and they offer it in Maserati's over there and everyone I've spoken to that have one loves it. They don't last long at the dealer near me. I think it's funny to hear Ford fans rag on this engine when Ford has had the worst diesels on the market since '03!!

I finally got to drive one at my local dealer and I was surprised how peppy it was and how quite. That'll definitely be my next truck, I've got a '02 Chevy 1500 HD, which is a 2500 with a 1500 HD badge, it rides like a tank and the 6.0 gets 10 mpg and I never tow anything, I think that's why Ram is focusing on smooth ride and better MPG for guys like me, if I want a truck to tow, I'd get a 2500 or 3500!! I don't get why guys on this forum rag on the towing, how many people actually tow with their 1500's?



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