Ford and Toyota Race Toward Hybrid Pickup on Solo Paths

Alan_Mulally hybrid pickup II copy

Hybrid pickups look like they'll be a reality at some point in our future. Ford has the best-selling pickup truck in its stable, while Toyota has the best-selling hybrid vehicle. That's why it made a lot of sense when they announced a partnership more than four years ago to collaborate on a hybrid pickup truck. Then two years ago they split up, each deciding to tackle the hybrid pickup project on their own.

According to Automotive News, Koei Saga, head of powertrain technology at Toyota, says that Ford did little to bring any new ideas or technology to the table with Toyota providing the bulk of the ideas. According to a Ford spokesman, after an in-house feasibility study determined Ford's rear-drive technology was probably better suited to the needs of the typical F-150 customer, Ford bowed out of the partnership.

Different manufacturers have offered hybrid pickups in the past. Remember the Chevrolet Silverado Hybrid? In each case customers were not willing to accept the significant trade-offs required when purchasing a hybrid pickup. Although fuel prices are at record lows, times have clearly changed and consumers may now be more accepting of such technology. In fact, companies like VIA Motors are having good success using GM platforms (the Silverado 1500, the full-size van and the Suburban) for installing proprietary hybrid powertrains; VIA even predicts that the hybrid pickup market is likely to be more than 50,000 units by 2018.

Toyota declined to be specific about the timing of a possible Tundra or Tacoma hybrid pickup truck, but some reports have Ford on schedule to produce one before the end of the decade. The biggest issue, of course, is the pricing of the new powertrain. Buyers seem comfortable spending more for an upgraded powertrain, like the new Cummins in the 2016 Nissan Titan XD or the baby Duramax in the 2016 Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon, but will they spend more to get a "greener" pickup?

Current technology offerings will probably not change the minds of today's pickup buyers, but if anyone has an advantage on how to produce and market hybrid vehicles, Toyota seems to be the best situated for the challenge. Of course, a new type of pickup like Hyundai's Santa Cruz concept could also be well positioned to offer a new type of powertrain. Expect more information about green powertrain advancements in the coming years.

Manufacturer image

 

Ford and toyota collaboration copy II

2013-GMC-Sierra-1500-Hybrid-Truck-3HA-4x2-Crew-Cab-143.5-in.-WB-Exterior II

Ford and Toyota Canter EcoHybrid II

Toyota Hino Hybrid copy

Toyota Hybrid copy

 

Comments

I do think the commercial operator would be more inclined to take these types of vehicles seriously. If this wasn't the case, then Hino/Toyota would of introduced the Hilux first with their hybrid commericals and not their small FWD control trucks.

If the everyday pickup driver was that concerned they would not be driving a fuel guzzling vehicle and would demand a Prius or Focus hybrid pickup.

The only way hybrid pickups become viable is if they are regulated to be so.

Very few would sell, especially at the moment with the price of crude oil.

Also, why would you buy a gasoline hybrid when just a diesel will give you the same or similar FE ...... for less cost?

I envisage the hybrid aspect will be more an augmentation of a slightly smaller gas engine in a large vehicle, ie, V6 with a small electric motor for boost to provide V8 performance.

Emissions. Diesels are dirty for the environment. Look at populated areas in Europe that have stagnate air that let the dirty diesel emission just linger causing unhealthy conditions. If France consumers would replace there diesel with hybrids they wouldn't be told by there government that they can't drive cause they wouldn't have dirty emission problem.

I've driven a few Ford Hybrid (2014 Fusion most recently) for work, wasn't impressed. And I was disappointed with the 37 MPG hand calculated I got with the car when it is rated at 44/41.

The 2015 Toyota Prius II I had as a rental got 50 MPG hand calculated, not bad since the EPA Est. was 51/48. And the Toyota Camry Hybrid I got had a hand calculated MPG of 40.5, again with in the 43/39 EPA estimates.

Ford has some work to do, just like they had to call back the C-Max for overstated EPA MPG estimates. Ford puts up nice EPA numbers, but real world MPG is lacking...

Is Ford still planning a hydraulic hybrid?

I don't believe diesels are as "dirty" as some people think. And their carbon footprint, thanks to their higher fuel mileage has to be better than gasoline and everything that goes into the production of batteries for hybrids. In my opinion, and its only my opinion, hybrids are way over rated for their returns, both economically and carbon footprint.

So Mr Scott, if Ford brings the Ranger pickup back to the USA, you are saying that Ford should not offer a Diesel, because the Diesel is to dirty for the environment .

"VIA Motors are having good success using GM platforms"

Oh really? I've been drooling over them since before VIA existed, back when it was developed by Razor tech. That was......2005? YOU, as a consumer still can't buy one even though VIA had it's launch early this spriing. Now, if you are large utility, or big city municipality ( think Chicago ), then you can buy any number of them. Although, I've seen nothing about real deliveries, only demo vehicles. This one would be mine, just not in black.

http://www.viamotors.com/vehicles/soltrux/

Check the 2016 fuel economy guide, GM has entries for the own hybrids.
Ford would more than likely uses the 2.3 liter turbocharged I4 connected to a hybridized version of the new 10 speed automatic.

here is a hypothetical quote "Buyers seem comfortable spending more for an upgraded powertrain, like the new Cummins in the 2016 Nissan Titan XD or the baby Duramax in the 2016 Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon,

they are not even out yet, how can you say something like that without facts?

@Alex - I have read that some garbage truck fleets have gone to hydraulic/hybrid with amazing improvements in fuel economy and with reduced brake servicing. Hydraulic/hybrids work well in those situations since a lot of energy is expended in the frequent stop/start cycles.

Hybrids are more for those that city drive only. If you drive HWY a hybrid is not the answer. Even though a Hybrid is driven by an electric motor only (with the exception of GMs attempt with a bolt on electric motor) the gas engine is still needed. With the gas engine it will be required to recharge the batteries which requires HP and also generate enough amperage to power the electric motor(s). So the only way it really makes sense is if you can benefit by keeping a light foot in city traffic and maximizing pure electric power and regenitive braking to charge the batteries. In a truck you are looking at a huge single or set of electric motors, huge battery bank, huge generator coupled to the engine etc. There would be considerable weight increase to a truck platform to make it usable.


@Alex - I have read that some garbage truck fleets have gone to hydraulic/hybrid with amazing improvements in fuel economy and with reduced brake servicing. Hydraulic/hybrids work well in those situations since a lot of energy is expended in the frequent stop/start cycles.

Posted by: Lou_BC | Dec 2, 2015 4:12:05 PM

I have also heard the same thing. Freightliner is also experimenting in their Supertruck using exhaust heat to produce power for drivetrain use.

Ford hired Chrysler engineers to build aluminium truck , now they stole Toyota hybrid technology. They have Chinese business model and it works for them so far.

Never cared for hybrids, never will. The first manufacturer to offer an all-electric full-size truck gets my money, and by the looks of it that will be Tesla. Long live Elon Musk.

Striker45
Dont hold your breath,as awesome Tesla is I wonder how long can they keep on going without making profit,,right now it survives on goverment handout and selling carbon credits

http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickmichaels/2013/05/27/if-tesla-would-stop-selling-cars-wed-all-save-some-money/

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/10/tesla-burns-cash-loses-more-than-4000-on-every-car-sold.html


Why can an independent individual make better hybrid truck faster then all of big three automakers?

https://youtu.be/oOYrJm23OpM

KAWASAKI VERSYS 1000 - at least you picked a reliable but ugly motorcycle.

Why do you keep changing your blog name?

Toyota was foolish to share any technology they pioneered in the joint development while Ford just laid on their backside, stole it and suddenly decides they have enough to get them started alone.

Seems like toyota had a lot more to gain from the combined deal than ford did. Especially considering that they won't be selling many hybrid pickups for a long long time.


Toyota was foolish to share any technology they pioneered in the joint development while Ford just laid on their backside, stole it and suddenly decides they have enough to get them started alone.

Posted by: Mitch | Dec 2, 2015 6:19:52 PM

Hmmmmm, it seems to me that people do not realize that there was likely a legal contract between Ford and Toyota that has stuff like stealing in it. So how much of what people are babbling about is really the truth. I mean, how could 2 global companies competing for market share come together for a tech project and a contract not be in place with a bunch of lawyers involved.

The irony of all this is the fact that companies routinely buy competitor's products to test and disassemble and examine. Unless patents are violated it amounts to sour grapes.

@Zorro - please post evidence that Ford used Chrysler engineers to design F150.

Oh and maybe those poor FCA engineers were unemployed anyway since they don't have the R&D money to design anything new.

Is Marchionne still trying to pimp out FCA?

Even GM doesn't want them.

I don't blame them since they already went through one bankruptcy. Why merge with a company that has already been there twice.


The irony of all this is the fact that companies routinely buy competitor's products to test and disassemble and examine. Unless patents are violated it amounts to sour grapes.

Posted by: Lou_BC | Dec 2, 2015 6:36:07 PM

Just wait for big steel to buy some of this mysterious aluminum and look at it.


The irony of all this is the fact that companies routinely buy competitor's products to test and disassemble and examine. Unless patents are violated it amounts to sour grapes.

Posted by: Lou_BC | Dec 2, 2015 6:36:07 PM

Just wait for big steel to buy some of this mysterious aluminum and look at it.

KAWASAKI VERSYS 1000 Ford is even stealing another companies hybrid tech Paice LLC . So much for LMAO kid saying Ford has their own hybrid tech HAHA!

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090504_lawsuit-accues-ford-of-infringing-hybrid-technology-patents-once-more

Guess we learned Ford don't know how to make hybrids. They just team up to rip people off, what a shame! Crooks!

Ford has 150 issued patents on the there truck hybrid system. 230 more patents are pending on the hybrid system. You can't patent technology that is already patented by another company. Everything toyota brought to the table was already patented technology and ford didn't like it and wasn't feasible for ford's truck what toyota was pimping. Toyota was trying to get ford to license and buy from toyota's unfeasible tech and it wouldn't work. So ford left and that pisses toyota off cause instead of building a tundra in house they just wanted to put there emblem on a ford f series and sell it under the toyota brand name while retaining most of the profit from the toyota badged ford.

" 230 more patents are pending "

Yeah based one other companies work Scott. Ford will one day be able to make their own stuff with out, ripping off, hacked up crap, they cheaply put together base on other companies work.

So where is the outcome of that lawsuit Johnny Dumb Dumb. Looks like this company went after Toyota also. So how legit is this whole thing or do they want more money than the contract allowed for..........................

Your life must be as pathetic as Fat Girl From Oz. Searching and searching Ford.

230 more patents are pending "

Yeah based one other companies work Scott. Ford will one day be able to make their own stuff with out, ripping off, hacked up crap, they cheaply put together base on other companies work.


Again you cannot copy someone else patent. I do not see anywhere where Ford did that. You seem to be one of these people that companies come together without any contacts that layout everything on the table. You have absolutely no knowledge of what occurred anywhere. But you speak like everything is black and white with your bowtie goggles.

@LMAO
Paice won against Toyota. All toyota hybrid tech was jacked from this company. Maybe that is why ford jump ship from toyota since it was stolen tech. Paice has also sued hyundai and kia.

Also ford won against paice and didn't infringe on paice's tech.
http://www.law360.com/articles/730702/ford-wins-ptab-challenge-over-hybrid-vehicle-tech

LMAO your life must be really pathetic, you have to make up lies for Ford on hybrid tech... which they stole from at least two companies now known. Stay in school kid.

@LMAO
Paice won against Toyota. All toyota hybrid tech was jacked from this company. Maybe that is why ford jump ship from toyota since it was stolen tech. Paice has also sued hyundai and kia.

Also ford won against paice and didn't infringe on paice's tech.
http://www.law360.com/articles/730702/ford-wins-ptab-challenge-over-hybrid-vehicle-tech


Thanks. Im just playing around in my garage right now and did a quick search but nothing heavy. I still wonder about the Toyota deal with them. May have to look that up later.


LMAO your life must be really pathetic, you have to make up lies for Ford on hybrid tech... which they stole from at least two companies now known. Stay in school kid.

Posted by: johnny doe | Dec 2, 2015 7:19:12 PM

Your the only liar here Johnny Dumb Dumb. There has been no proof that Ford stole any Hybrid tech yet. Not saying they did not but no proof. Kind of like the kettle calling the Pot Black there Dumb Dumb. I have way more better things to do than search online all day during school like yourself looking for Ford articles. You are truly loosing your 1st grader mind.

Ford Australia has been secretly developing a steam power augmentation with a diesel Everest/Ranger. It's apparently the "hottest" hybrid around and it took Frod innovation to hatch this one!

In one test vehicle the new high tech external combustion process has gotten out of hand for the tester.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/manufacturing/new-ford-everest-suv-catches-fire-during-a-test-drive-destroyed-by-the-blaze/news-story/86b4c77b9a90026c85be3b7b875a04cd

Yeah what ever LMAO kid stay in school, read the news and learn.

LMAO. Toyota stole the information and tech through a partnership with ford as ford was in a development agreement with paice dating back to the 90's and ford shared it with toyota so they could build there prius.

There patent was equivalent to patenting a tire based on shape..... Round!!! If you held a patent for a round tire nobody could make a tire that was round with out your license. That is why the patent board just ruled that ford didn't infringe on the patents.

It most likely why Ford pulled out of the recent arrangement was Toyota was trying to get Ford to use toyota's tech which was originally stole from ford and Ford seen this would be another lawsuit and had there own tech they could use and left Toyota high and dry at the table cause they didn't want to get sued in the future by Paice cause toyota can't license there hybrid technology as it was stolen and they ended up having to pay for it just to use it.


Yeah what ever LMAO kid stay in school, read the news and learn.

Posted by: johnny doe | Dec 2, 2015 7:31:58 PM

HAHA, good one. Really burned me on that 1st grader. You may want to learn to spell prior to saying to someone to stay in school there little buddy.

Here is an article about toyota stealing its hybrid tech. They paid out the behind since it was found they did.
http://jalopnik.com/5592533/this-man-fought-toyota-for-stealing-his-hybrid-tech-and-won

Ford on the other hand has licensed tech from this guy and developed there own in the process and now the guy got mad that ford developed there own and sues ford but the courts recently decided that ford didn't infringe on his patents.

Ford sees what toyota has and see it is inferior stolen tech that most likely they have the license to use anyway. Pulls away from toyota and now toyota is crying cause they can't access fords tech. Kind of ironic toyota starts crying now after the courts found that Ford hasn't infringed on anything. All the while Toyota has to pay this guy every year for there tech

Why not a hybrid diesel. The Metro bus transit in Cincinnati has a few hybrid diesel buses in their fleet. As for the Ford hybrids has anyone driven a C-Max? Nice vehicle with plenty of room and about 37 to 40 mpgs. Hybrids have been on the market long enough that they really shouldn't cost much more than a regular power train. All that needs to happen next is the batteries get smaller, cheaper, and have a longer range. Hybrids are really good in stop and go traffic. A hybrid power train would help the manufacturers meet the new stricter fuel standards on trucks along with the other fuel saving things the manufacturers are now offering. It would be very feasible for most gas and diesel powered vehicles in the future to have some type of hybrid system especially if the batteries get smaller and less costly. Sure if you are hauling a heavy load or trailer and crusing down the road at 90 mph it would now be very efficient by at slower speeds in stop and go traffic especially commuting the mpgs would be noticeable. Hybrids are not just for greenies. Hybrid diesel train locomotives have been in existence for over 50 years.

totally confusing comments, but this line from Mr Williams report floored me:

"...Although fuel prices are at record lows, times have clearly changed and consumers may now be more accepting of such technology."

Times have clearly changed? Consumers more accepting?

Cannot tell if you're kidding or not. Not unlike steam engines, there are odd uses for hybrid tech now and then, however, for the average truck buyer I see in my area a hybrid F150 would be a conversation starter, like having loud exhaust pipes, or a purple '64 Sting Ray.

A practical reason to own a hybrid pickup?
City driving? How many florist shops are there in San Francisco, anyway?

Hybrids are not just for greenies. Hybrid diesel train locomotives have been in existence for over 50 years.

@Jeff S

Just when I thought you were getting better. Diesel locomotives? You jest!

A diesel locomotive is a piece of capital equipment that a rail operator would use like a rented mule for decades before it wears out. The powertrain is a bespoke system with a million dollar price tag and a team of specially trained techs who keep the internals gleaming.

No relevance to the conversation about pickups that I can gather. Why not compare it to a oil burning steamship, or a C-130 gunship? Sorry, but you really lost me on that one!

Johnny Dil Doe, you still riding the little short Yellow STOOL BUS???

@Big Al from Oz,
That photo of the Everest bursting into flames, did not inspire much confidence

I know 1 person how had a Silverado 1500 Hybrid as his corporate truck for a while. He really liked it. I don't think he had it long enough to speak about its durability or how it holds up up to and beyond 150K but for the time he had it he really liked its performance. Things like this have to start out as more or less proof of concept models because one can be almost certain they will not be big sellers. The manufacturer needs to make sure that there is sufficient development and versatility in the tech and concept that it can translate to multiple models and help spread the costs and benefits.

There goes Scott with his hatred of diesels again.

Lou, when the Germans took over Chrysler the guys that designed and built the Plymouth prowler, which is aluminum, left and went to ford.

Robert Ryan,
It's a pity about the Everest.

I've already seen a few new Rangers on the road and I have yet to see an Everest.

There are two issues I have with the Everest;
1. The naming convention, should of been called a Bronco since Ford has ownership of the name.

2. and, the pricing. Like the Ranger they are way overpriced. But Toyota has been getting away with that for years.

I'm starting to see quite a few Dmax's on the road now as well. They do look tidy and the diesel, even though it's down a little with it's power output is a good engine apparently and performs as well or better than some of the more powerful diesels.

roadram - makes sense. Professionals do move around based on skill set and job opportunities.



Post a Comment

Please remember a few rules before posting comments:

  • Try to be civil to your fellow blog readers.
  • Stay on topic. We want to hear your opinions and thoughts, but please only comment about the specified topic in the blog post.
  • Your email will not be shown.

If you have a TypeKey or TypePad account, please Sign In

Home | Buy or Sell a Truck | News | Special Reports

Powered by Cars.com. By using this site, you agree to our terms of service | © 2017 Cars.com | Privacy Statement | Contact Us