Ram, EPA and CARB Close to EcoDiesel Agreement

Ram EcoDiesel II

After issuing a "notice of violation" accusing Fiat Chrysler Automobiles of installing engine software that allowed excess nitrogen oxide emissions in diesel versions of two of its popular vehicles, the EPA, California Air Resources Board and FCA are in discussions to resolve the matter.

According to the Detroit Free Press, FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne is optimistic about quickly resolving the issue. Marchionne has asserted that FCA did nothing intentional to prevent the turbo-diesel 3.0-liter V-6 offered in the Ram 1500 pickup truck and the Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV from performing as required by law. The Free Press also reported that FCA said a possible fix could involve re-flashing the computer software, allowing for EPA certification of the 2017 models. Marchionne also said that the same software fix could be used to update the older models.

Resolving the issue in the next few weeks could pave the way for the current backlog of Ram 1500 EcoDiesels — many of which are sitting in dealerships — to get the software upgrade. Although Ram does not report the type of engines in its pickups in its monthly sales report, sources have told us that more than 10 percent of all Ram half-ton sales are equipped with the torquey turbo-diesel. If FCA does not get this resolved quickly, Ram could lose out on quite a few half-ton Ram sales in February.

Manufacturer images

ET014_035EPL II

RM014_027FNL II

RM014_028FNL II

 

Comments

Impressive. It looks like RAM would beat Chevy for January, if not EPA intervention.
I like this best trucks fight.

Sales for the Ram might be down this year, this is bad for marketing and bad press. Hope they can become more reliable.

Good to see RAM is getting this resolved quickly, if that truck didn't have all of the emission stuff on it, that would be my next truck!!

I read somewhere the reflash would remove all 8 of the undisclosed AECD's. it will be interesting to see if the 2017 certification come with a change in EPA ratings. FCA may not have tried to pull a fast one ala VW but you have to wonder why they were there in the first place and why they were not disclosed.

Ram will be fine it's the EPA who will have to worry, look at who T rump picked to return the EPA to it's true duty.

Anyone see the youtube video where the guys tested one of these trucks and it put out zero emissions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIt3MaHADvM

It's 0 and with in the range of what the state of Colorado test for in their emissions.

The big question is why do we let the EPA tell us what to do when they go and do this to people.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/11/13/epa-charged-with-lethal-experiments-on-hundreds-of-unsuspecting-subjects/#6a732e9b7513

http://anonhq.com/toxic-epa-spill-taints-water-supplies-3-states-causes-unknown-damage-environment/

So they sead thise softwer are to protect the engine, if they will re-flash the computer and remove the softwer then what it will happen ? In one word the engine won't be protected because the softewers are removed.........

Serg thinks he can handle it like they do in Italy... slip some "incentive" in an envelope and pass it under the table to the heads of the EPA

Clearly no offense to anyone who is from Italy, has ever been to Italy, or even knows where to find it on the map...

They handle that better in USA. No particulate filters for GDI yet, no rules until this year and double the limit than in Europe this year.
Ford didn't pay a nickel.


@@RAM. Stop trying to make everything about Ford. FCA got busted for undisclosed AECD's and will need to settle up with CARB and the EPA. Do I think they were really trying to cheat, no. However per regulations all AECD's must be disclosed. Get over yourself and grow up a little.

And I am ok with that . You should get over yourself to constantly bash FCA, Sergio,Fiat and Italy and start bashing the EPA, because of double meter in here.

Nothing intentional. Really? FCA couldn't meet emission guidelines so they decided it was okay to design the system to disable emissions software while the vehicle is underway. Sounds like a convenient, beneficial short cut to not be intentional.

I drove one at the L.A. auto show. I was impressed with how smooth and tight it felt. Have no interest in diesel.

Awesome,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf-EUkrr5Hs

Guts

Glory

Ram.

Power Wagon,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwV4E_cJtbE

@toycrusher
I'm 100% Italian born in Ca. 1st generation here. I speak n write it too. It's the boot shaped country smack dab in the middle of Europe. Eh maybe not. Yah Europeans often go about things differently which is not a bad thing. We will see how the FCA thing turns out. I've not really seen a lot of Ecodiesel in Silicon Valley, but have seen alot of Hemi V8's. I thought Ecodiesel might of been a game changer, but I'm not seeing it as so anymore.
That one video said smogging of a diesel is required every year after year 10. First I've heard of that. What a pain in the A that would become. Over and above the DEF refilling. One more thing to refill. I'm thinking all electric is just so much simpler. No oil changes, gas stations... Here in South Valley the Electrics get you into the carpool lane, and a buddy at Google is eying the Bolt since it gets congested on the hwy 101 in Mountain View CA.

Power Wagon Winch it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA0XGi0zD60

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Did I read that right. FCA said about 10% are eco-diesels? What happened to "oh everyone is gonna sweep up these halfton diesel". Doesn't look like diesel halfton is as hot as keyboard warriors made it out to be. And here ford is gonna jump in on it too with their diesel halfton.

@uh huh

You got that right!

All of the usual ninnies who comment on this site were beating the drum for small diesels a couple of years ago.

During the last year they were all out buying gas engines, the bigger the better.

Oh well.

With diesel cheaper then gas right now, and gas going up,I can see the diesel motored vehicles selling more and more.. it's funny how California is more liberal then any other state, but Washington, and yet CARB is more restrictive then the EPA. Need to get rid of CARB and have one national standard.

@Angelo
I remember carpool lanes in LA ,when traveling across the US for 3 weeks, 7 years ago. It was a very good option for me with my Durango and HEMI, because of 5 occupants , but I also remember , that it got congested as well. I can't imagine, how it's right now, when more and more people drive hybrids and electric cars. Pretty soon, no electric car with less than 4 occupants will be allowed to use one and we are at the beginning again. California tries to solve a problem with wrong approach and public money and Californians will pay for that , no questions asked.
You wouldn't need a carpool lane, if you had a mass transportation systems like in the Europe. Why not use a car pool lane just for Megabus and save a planet from the battery production waste ? One diesel engine is easier and much less expensive to produce and fix, than hundreds of electric cars, motors and batteries and doesn't need Coal fed Power plant for electricity. Or even better, build an electric train rail instead of car pool lane. No, it's not gonna happen. Why ?

You wouldn't need a carpool lane, if you had a mass transportation systems like in the Europe.

@RAM

Why don't you be the first one to volunteer to rely on mass transit?

Europe's system is a unionized public system that will last in perpetuity and proof of how effective that is just requires a trip to Spain, Greece, Italy or Portugal. Their economies are on life-support.

Europe was also late to the dance with autos, because the respective states could never agree on the simplest standards, such as what side of the bleeping road to drive on.

Get out a little and stop paying attention to the liberal crap you see on TV.

@papajim
Wow.There is nothing right in your post about Europe mass transportation. You left 30 more countries out of it. Not even close and California is broke like Europe.
I had the answer in my post first, but I deleted that, because I wanted someone else to say it . Yes , even Californians like their kind of freedom and pretend to be green. I like my HEMI V8 Canada wide freedom.

FCA closing retail gap with Ford

by Bill Cawthon on Saturday, February 4, 2017
Despite an 11% overall drop in total sales, FCA’s retail sales in the United States were just 839 behind Ford Motor Company in January — 109,350 sales vs Ford’s 110,189.

@HEMI V8
Yep, I read about it ,but didn't dare to post it,because some PUTC members would crucified me. Impressive achievement anyway .

I'm thinking all electric is just so much simpler. No oil changes, gas stations... Here in South Valley the Electrics get you into the carpool lane, and a buddy at Google is eying the Bolt since it gets congested on the hwy 101 in Mountain View CA.Posted by: Angelo Pietroforte | Feb 5, 2017 12:22:23 AM

How bout we just undo the unneeded rules from the real ppl killers of the EPA like T rump is doing.

@HemiV8
My post autocorrected to South Valley. I meant south SF bay area which is San Jose, in Silicon Valley. I agree with you about electric kind of being a delusional GREEN solution, since the electric power comes from grid which might be from coal. Mass transit, ie rail BART is finally being brought down to the south bay. An extension from Fremont. I see the progress weekly as the tracks come near a par course in my housing complex that I use. They say 2018 it will provide service and I know I'd use it to see buddy's in North bay, and bring bike on it like I did last year. Testing of the 10kV Bart line is happening, and I see the train already testing the track near the new station 0.5mi from Tesla. Tesla's are a somewhat of a craze here in Silicon Valley. Sleek lines on that vehicle, but yeah dilusional when people think it's really green because the power comes from the grid which may not be GReen at all. It's more of a status thing with Tesla, but people get addicted to the acceleration fun too. But yeah, I laugh when people buy them and think they are really promoting green. I think if you want to be green, ride a bike. I try to ride road bike to work a few days a week 6mi but we've been getting rain, and I'm more into distance running as my morning workouts so after those workouts I don't feel like biking, unless I'm trying to recover from a repetitive stress muscle pull. Then I'm peddling a whole bunch and in the hills that overlook all Si Valley. I'm 50 and qualified for Boston Marathon, and today took 1st place in my age group at a SF 1/2 marathon today. Yes I love the outdoors and used a Eurorail pass some years ago to get around between Spain n Italy with bike in toe too. It was quite efficient. As the economy has picked up, so has the traffic in all SF bay area. Would love to see Tesla shake up the truck market with a 300mi truck that didn't have a front end a mile long! But in all honesty I'd have a hard time justify >$60k on any truck since my profession doesn't depend on it though I'm overdue to treat myself. I know a few people who want electric just so they can get that carpool sticker.

Fiat caught doing some dirty pool.

Good thing its just a software fix and not a buy back for Fiat. If it were they would mean Fiat would have the 1st and 2nd biggest truck buy back in the US.

Don't cheat.

@Angelo
Nice to see they build some rail in there. I wish I could use a bike for my work, but we got 10" of fresh snow over a weekend and I need to carry parts and tool boxes.
I am stuck with truck. I have a solar panels at the side of my house and pushed to the grid over 5.2 MWh in 3 years. They replaced my roof finally, so I will install more , to triple my capacity in the spring and my bill should be zero then. I will be ready for electric car or truck, but I need a 400 miles of the range to make it to my vacation property, where I can charge it again off the grid from solar panels.
Today sucks again. No solar power at all for 5 days.

@RAM Sounds like a great GREEN very respectable project you have going on! When I peddle it's 6miles, but I have gone 10mile along a trail & streets on Hwy 237 (one very congested freeway in Si Valley). Our lake Tahoe is getting pounded with what I think might be record snow fall. Yah maybe Tesla can drive up the range to a sweet 400mi on a truck model. We'll have to wait and see. I'll guess that once they get their new $40k model E (reverse 3) released, that they'd be able to go full speed ahead with their truck. Then I'd probably be on the roof adding some panels to keep the charge cost to a minimal. That's an exciting future to dream about. I did a tour a decade ago in that Tesla factory when it was NUMMI plant. Robotic welders producing sparks and whatnot. I drive by Tesla once a week, and could see myself becoming a spy shooter if and when they start to produce trucks. I currently work 1.5mi from Tesla.

"I read somewhere the reflash would remove all 8 of the undisclosed AECD's. it will be interesting to see if the 2017 certification come with a change in EPA ratings. FCA may not have tried to pull a fast one ala VW but you have to wonder why they were there in the first place and why they were not disclosed."
-- Posted by: Yupp | Feb 4, 2017 12:19:41 PM

Remove? Or recalibrate? If those pieces of software are there for legitimate purposes, i.e. the protection of the engines under specific circumstances, then calibrating them to a tighter standard might be all that's needed.

"With diesel cheaper then gas right now, and gas going up,I can see the diesel motored vehicles selling more and more.. it's funny how California is more liberal then any other state, but Washington, and yet CARB is more restrictive then the EPA. Need to get rid of CARB and have one national standard."
-- Posted by: Dave | Feb 5, 2017 10:03:21 AM

Where is diesel cheaper than gas? Where I live it's about 20¢ more expensive than Premium. and more than 50¢ higher than regular.


• Posted by: Angelo Pietroforte | Feb 6, 2017 1:04:04 AM

I'm going to answer this piecemeal since it is somewhat repetitive and redundant.

"I agree with you about electric kind of being a delusional GREEN solution, since the electric power comes from grid which might be from coal."
-- While true as far as it goes, you forget that at its worst, the Tesla in particular is still twice as clean as a Fiat 500 as far as smokestack emissions are concerned due to its 80+mpge and the fact that the emissions from a coal plant ARE scrubbed significantly. It would take no less than four Teslas to put out as many emissions as one Mercedes S-type, while offering similar size and performance to that S-type.

"Mass transit, ie rail BART is finally being brought down to the south bay. An extension from Fremont. I see the progress weekly as the tracks come near a par course in my housing complex that I use."
-- Personally, I'd love to see passenger rail have a resurgence simply because its more comfortable than driving or flying over longer distances and certainly less stressful than driving for daily commutes. I live on the NEC (NorthEast Corridor) and the town I'm in does NOT offer a direct connection to Amtrak or any of the 'local' commuter rails traveling either through Baltimore to DC and Richmond, VA or up to Philly, New Jersey, New York or Boston. Quite literally, I have to drive no less than 15 miles to reach the nearest rail station capable of going the entire distance to either end of the line. I don't expect to see that gap closed for at least another 10 years. But what I'd really like to see is inter-city passenger rail to cities currently not serviced by such across the country. Rail used to be the primary means of long-distance travel and it could still be more efficient and comfortable than flying middle distances of 750 miles or less.

"It's more of a status thing with Tesla, but people get addicted to the acceleration fun too. But yeah, I laugh when people buy them and think they are really promoting green."
-- While I will agree the Model S is more a status symbol than anything, the Model 3 will make BEVs notably more affordable and more desirable, as a BEV costs half as much to recharge as a gasoline engine to travel the same distance and you can easily recharge it at home rather than having to run to the local gas station when you run low. And of course, recharging at home means you start every day with at least 200 miles of range in your 'tank', meaning you don't have to get out in foul weather just to refuel your car. There's more to being Green than being "green".

"I think if you want to be green, ride a bike. I try to ride road bike to work a few days a week 6mi but we've been getting rain, and I'm more into distance running as my morning workouts so after those workouts I don't feel like biking, unless I'm trying to recover from a repetitive stress muscle pull. Then I'm peddling a whole bunch and in the hills that overlook all Si Valley. I'm 50 and qualified for Boston Marathon, and today took 1st place in my age group at a SF 1/2 marathon today."
-- Do, please forgive me but all I can hear in my mental ear is, "Oooh! Look at the heath nut!" No, I don't mean any personal insult but rather I wish to point out that you are the exception, not the rule. I, too, love the outdoors but because I work in an office and not out in the field, I simply don't have the endurance to even ride a bike one mile in hilly country (though love riding one on the flat.) Because of where I live, it can become remarkably hilly in short order despite living only a few miles from the Atlantic coast. The stream that runs through my town is directly affected by tides and the water level rises from three to five feet twice a day despite being a mostly fresh-water stream.

"Would love to see Tesla shake up the truck market with a 300mi truck that didn't have a front end a mile long! But in all honesty I'd have a hard time justify >$60k on any truck since my profession doesn't depend on it though I'm overdue to treat myself. I know a few people who want electric just so they can get that carpool sticker."
-- This seems to be in the works for 2020 or so but I'm not so sure it would equate to full sized like the F-150 or even mid-sized like the Colorado. On the other hand, as a light duty, handyman-type of truck a BEV could be extremely efficient--even for delivery services and pest control where more time is spent in stop-and-go service than any significant mileage. A BEV would offer the greatest advantage as it's the start-and-stop that eats gas mileage and generates the most pollution.

@RoadWhale
Thanks for your input.
I didn't know there was such a difference in emission between a Tesla and a Fiat BEV.
Elon Musk has his hands in so many company's maybe his passenger rail train will see the light of day.
I understand biking is not realistic for many. I only did it at best 2 days a week during my 10mi commute because I found it would only take an extra 15minutes in the morning during rush hour.
Health, I lost 12 pounds the other year and my running speed came back to where it was 8 years earlier. Being healthy does turn back a human's clock. Things I want to do in my 60's are going to require that I stay fit, so it is a lifestyle I have chosen. But working out is work. Freedom isn't free, and health isn't free. Yah, biking is a challenge for many people, let alone throw in some hills and some fluctuating streams, it becomes a show stopper. Not to mention snow you probably get too, whereas I've only woken up to snow on the flat lands in San Francisco area probably twice in my life. I hear you.
Yes, a Tesla truck will come with some positives and some negatives on what it will and won't do. Take care.

I appreciate some productive and relaxed talk. Take care.

It's important to understand the different emissions on these trucks. NOx is the main culprit with this investigation and the main contributor of smog and acid rain. Lumping all emissions into one "measurement" is reckless.

and the main contributor of smog and acid rain

@Conor

Acid rain and "smog" are both local weather conditions. There are many parts of the country that DO NOT have either one.

Where I live the prevailing winds are so dominant in the local weather that we have no significant air pollution from vehicles.

So, why should I have to own a truck that is equipped with systems that address a non existent condition?

@Ram

a few years ago I was in the Bay Area and got a chance to try the BART system. It was very cool.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, BART is heavily funded by people who NEVER ride BART unless they happen to be in one of the areas it serves. Because California gets a ton of federal dollars, anything that even sounds like a passenger train gets a lot of money from people who don't even live there.

Worse, Sacramento provides about 40 percent of BART's annual funds. Why? Because BART riders would NEVER ride the BART if they had to pay the entire fare.

San Francisco's a beautiful place to work and live but the surface travel there in buses, trains and cars is a bitch. Parking is even worse.

The transportation needs of cities like San Fran and Chicago are not at all like those in the rest of the country. That's why Europe's one-size-fits all approach is lame.

I was in San Francisco on my way, but I didn't like it. It was too cold , moist and very windy . On the boat, on the bridge, even on the Fisherman's wharf. I wouldn't live in San Francisco, where young people are on retirement already.
Well, bus mass transportation in Europe doesn't get even cent from government in 99℅ of the countries and it works very welll and it's self sustaining and makes mostly private companies a money. California is more socialist, than worse countries in the European Union, like Greece and France and it's exactly what I said. Corrupted system, where some companies makes lot of money for "green" projects and Californians pays for that, no questions asked.
Carpool line is not a green solution IMO, because more poluting cars has one line less to use and are stuck and polute in the trafic for more time, but someone had a shares in hybrids and Tesla and made this decision to make a ton of money. Public is happy, because it's completely green blind.
That's why I don't like Ford. Same " eco" lie. They don't even advertise anymore, that ecoboost has regular V6 MPG. They completely dropped that line and focus just on the power. New HO ecoboost is disgrace of the word eco. I would understand to call it a powerboost, but then, the man wouldn't have an excuse ready for his wife to justify the purchase of powerboost. Ecoboost is easier to push. LOL.

I've heard a few opinions that Ca is full of liberals. I've been exposed to all kinds of opinions living here all my life. Yah some quite liberal compared to my 1st generation Italian-Catholic upbringing. Even gays, which I've softened to over my life because, well, some are actually quite intelligent, hard working, and athletically gifted too (Olympic track and field). But I'm not and I'm 99.9% positive I never will be. For our non travelled readers, when I talk about San Francisco bay area that includes San Jose Silicon Valley area. It's about 35-50miles between the two. San Jose being 50miles, and Google Facebook Mountain View area some 35miles. I don't have the time to get into the numbers, but Ca is ~6th in GDP worldwide. I think that says a lot. BART ended in Fremont for as far back as I can remember (maybe since inception which I think was 1975) when I remember riding my bicycle under the tracks to get to some guys house who wanted to sell me a FX slot car track car. You know the ones that are about 2.5" long. Too funny. As I write I remember that moment under the tracks getting me to a rougher part of the town I grew up in. So Fremont is where BART ends on the east side of the Bay. So people in San Jose would rarely use it. Me being a rare user. People along the highway 101 (Palo Alto, Mountain View) use Caltrain to take people to I believe it is the Giants baseball stadium. Anyway, when BART gets to the southbay in ~2018, that will make ~43 years that the system was incomplete for such a highly populated high GDP metropolitan area. When it gets done, I will be able to get to the San Francisco airport using BART. They have a people mover thing for ~ the last 1mile from the airport to the Caltrain/Bart airport Station. And one can get to San Francisco airport from Oakland. (It goes under the bay water). I can't argue about government funds and subsidies, but I hear what some have read and understand. As far as Los Angeles goes, they have their own congestion issues, but yet another very high GDP metropolitan area. San Francisco can get bitter cold! I remember taking my vacationing Italian aunt/uncle on one of those boats under the GGbridge and it was bitter cold. But I've run races in February years ago where the sun comes out and one can stay in shorts and tank top. Even races over GGBridge which at 9am gives a spectacular view of the Transamerica building in downtown SF. I've even swam from Alcatraz for a triatholon, and gotten stuck in the rain during a race which was quite miserable. Last Sunday's running race, was in the 60's at 10am. So jeans and t-shirt was ok for most of the day. San Francisco and Silicon Valley is very diverse culturally and age wise. Even the Blue Angels F18's flying 200ft ahead in a steep turn is breathtaking during fleet week at Chrissy fields. Socialistic? I've met a ton of entrepreneur's, and startups, even myself, and I'm almost positive that that kind of energy and forward thinking is no more vibrant than a place like Silicon Valley, let alone a socialist country. But that's ok, people from different parts of our country, have experiences, read things, visit, that then allow them to form opinions, and that's partly why I read these blogs is because I learn something when I hear diverse opinions. Ecoboost vs powerboost. That's quite relevant observation. And yes, why should the polluting cars have to sit in traffic to just pollute more. INCENTIVE to get them to buy electric. All good points. Having traveled both Europe and Japan, I think Japan has a public transpo system that might want to be modeled after, but then again, 150million Japanese people in the size of a CA area would demand that. I think USA is at 300million people now.

@Angelo
Don't take mo wrong. Anywhere a was in USA, I've met just very nice, polite a very good people. A did 7,000 kms with my Durango and travel trailer. I haven't been everywhere, but have an idea. South of LA was very nice. I made it as far as Carlsbad and I really like it there. I still didn't see 90% of the county, but I am pleased for what I've seen. I just think, that politicians and government take advantage of nice and good people, doesn't matter where it is.


@RAM.
Sounds like you had a great experience travelling with your trailer. That's great. You are French Canadian? From which part?
Yes, governments and politicians have a lot of power.

@Angelo
I am in Western Canada , came from the midle of the Europe, north of Italy. I've been many times in Italy. My first car was Fiat 127, which I got from my dad.I have a technology suppliers from Italy and many customers of mine are Italians. It's funny, that some of them from North doesn't socialize with others from South. Well ,some things never change.

I think my aunt from Bari drove me in her 127. My parents came from a town very near the southern Adriatic port of Bari. And yes, south and north are very different. Especially that very northern most part that used to be Austrian. I also have a cousin in Merano. So your French,Swiss, Austrian, or German. And your in which Canadian province? I need to see Canada. Sometimes I dream about flying from St John's Canada to the Azores and then to Europe, in a private aircraft of my own. Flying is my real passion. Doing that Atlantic ocean distance is extreme to think about doing in a single engine, but it has been done in plenty of planes. And St John's Newfoundland is the departure point.



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