Let's Go Beyond Stereotypes When Exploring Electric Pickups

IMG_6807A II

You have to give it credit for trying, but when a newspaper like the Washington Post writes about pickup trucks, albeit electrified pickups, there's bound to be some hazy thinking.

In an article about the rising popularity of electric vehicles, the Washington Post asked why there aren't more electric pickups.

The article focuses on issues such as battery technology and cargo capacity as well as it being difficult to take an electric pickup off-road — as if many pickup owners regularly need to or choose to go off-road. The Post also talks about owners being unable "roll coal" (the practice of modifying a diesel engine in such a way so that emits dark clouds of unburnt exhaust), as if most diesel pickup owners buy them with rolling coal as their express purpose. "This leaves the question of whether (pickup) truck drivers will be willing to swap their gas guzzlers for a cleaner model that can't roll coal," the author wrote. We've found most diesel pickup owners buy them for their capability, and not to roll coal.

The article does talk about small truckmakers such as VIA Motors, Workhorse, Bollinger Motors and others that are working on creating full-electric pickups. However, we're not likely to see anything for at least a few years, and even after they're released it will take time to make them attractive to average consumers. Special-duty fleet buyers are likely to be the first customers.

Still, there seems to be little doubt there's potential for electric pickups if these high-tech companies can figure out what the most significant benefits will be for pickup buyers, whether greater capabilities, available electric power, or all-new technology.  And if those companies can do some combination of the three, they'll likely succeed. But if newspaper writers and editors rely on old stereotypes about pickup trucks and their owners, getting the full story is going to be difficult.

Cars.com photo by Mark Williams

 

Comments

THAT'S ONE OF THE UGLIEST THING I EVER SEEN YOU KNOW WHY BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE GARBAGE MOTORS JUNK TRUCKS. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.

TAKE THAT GARBAGE MOTORS FAN GIRLYS. JUNK JUNK JUNK.

HAVE AWFUL DAY GARBAGE MOTORS FAN GIRLYS. HAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAH LATERS GIRLS.

SORRY GARBAGE MOTORS (AKA FORD) FAN GIRLS, FORGOT TO TAKE MY MEDICATION AGAIN.
EVERYONE , INCLUDING ME KNOWS THAT FORD JUNK SUCKS .
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The smarty-pants guys who write for an anti-American publication like the Washington Post cannot bring themselves to view average Americans with anything but disdain.

Don't go looking to the Post, Salon magazine or the New York Times for a fair perspective on middle America. Ditto for pickup trucks.

That's why we call them the Washington Compost.

Sophie Yeo, environmental journalist, You are fake news!

https://mobile.twitter.com/some_yeo

@Chris

Try to avoid the temptation to demonize someone like Sophie. That's the hardest part for me personally.

The left has succeeded in making every damn thing political and it really divides us as a nation.

America's a great country and the Fake News propagandists get a lot of their power from pitting us against our own countrymen.

Labor Day is a time to remember that our country leads the world in opportunity and freedom. Even if we don't always agree we can look for common ground.

What we need is to look for common ground as Americans on Labor Day...

Jim, So you want to come together and find common ground? Sounds wonderful but there's not a single dominant culture that people want to join and aspire to. American culture is being torn apart from the inside, ripped to shreds and we're being balkanized.

Where is the common ground between communist and Americans? Communist and capitalists? Environmental extremists? Where's the common ground? Where is the common ground between pro-life and probation? Where is this common ground? There isn't any is there?

Papa Jim says we have to all get along and we all can't win all the time and I understand the frustrations of those who don't like living in circumstances like this. But even if you embark on Papa Jim's project to find common ground and how we got here it and if you happen to be right like Papa Jim is then you are accused of being divisive. And laying blame of course is not how we will "all come together."

Happy Labor Day.

I agree with Chris. There is no coming together with the anti pickup truck anti American Washington Post. We must defeat them.

Happy Labor Day. Posted by: Chris | Sep 4, 2017

There are real issues that can't be watered down, we agree on that. But there are a lot of people who can be persuaded by logical arguments and mutual respect.

Try not to equate individual people with positions (or movements). I might be a Baptist and my neighbor might be a Catholic, but we're both Christians.

Common ground.

Probably the new Ford Ranger

Hahaha very funny how the GARBAGE MOTORS FAN GIRLYS RESPOND TO MY POST their funny and stupid hahahahaha.

an article about the rising popularity of electric vehicles, the Washington Post asked why there aren't more electric pickups.
/QUOTE

Because big 3 auto makers are too dam conservative and afraid to take risks,,or simply being in cahoots with Big Oil corps..

And seeing that Tesla has 400.000 preorders on their model 3 car,proves that people do WANT electrics
Big 3 better get in the game fast or be left behind..

My next truck and car and even motorcycle will definitely be EV

https://youtu.be/0q_ufmHlWsA

Amazon's Bezo's owns the Washington Post so it probably is even more left leaning than before.

That pickup has some similarity to the Griswold's family truckster in National Lampoon's Vacation movie.

I hope battery technology keeps advancing and EV pickups are even more compelling. Obviously, they have a ways to go.

@Ken--Agree all EVs have a ways to go. Get the battery size down with a longer range and lower price. The styling of this truck is not appealing.

Typical left wing liberal garbage from the Washington Post...

Seriously, guys, the probability for that a general-purpose pickup truck will be electric is near zero, for 20 years or more. Why?

1) The market place ultimately determines vehicle-purchase preferences (gee, there’s a shocker!), NOT Big Daddy government, at least not in America. That means if an EV is best for X uses, some people may buy it; if a HYBRID is best for Y uses, some people may buy that; and if an ICE is best for Z purposes, others may buy that. No rocket science there. Just the equilibrium of market forces. And right now, into the foreseeable future (10-20 years out), that equilibrium will still favor ICEs at about an 80% take rate, because of engine advances:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-future-of-the-internal-combustion-engine

2) America is no longer dependent on “foreign oil”. We are weaned off foreign oil, and have in fact become a net exporter of oil! My, how different from 1974!

3) The prices of oil, diesel, gasoline and CNG are now, and will continues to be, dirt cheap for at least 10 years, because of new oil discoveries; new lands opened for oil extraction; new high-speed automated refinement technologies; the shale oil fields; and new off-shore drilling permits. In fact, it costs me more to buy a gallon of top-quality mountain spring water than it does to buy a gallon of regular gasoline.

4) “Big Oil” blocking technology in this era is a myth. Large oil companies, like BP, Exxon-Mobil, and Shell are branching out to other energy sources and methods, and are pouring funding into energy research, — like wind, solar, H2 Fuel cell, Audi E-gas process, etc. Think about it: do you believe that Big Oil would allow itself (and its stockholders) to be blind-sided by new energy technologies without OWNING them first? (^_^).

5) EV’s will be neither practical nor accepted for general-use pickup trucks in America for the foreseeable future, because of these factors:
a) They would need a range of greater than 500 miles while hauling and/or towing.
b) They must charge fully in 10 minutes or less.
c) They must cost LESS than a comparable ICE truck.
d) They must be supported by charging stations all over the country (America).
e) They must have a supporting electric grid capable of powering more than 25% of all customers who would drive all EV’s (which does not yet exist).
f) They must not depend on exotic metals like indium and cobalt, which are rare and rapidly depleting.
g) They must have adequate VERY cold-temperature performance (which they do not now).
h) They must have a hauling and towing capacity comparable to ICE trucks of the same size and class, AND must haul/tow at that max for at least the same time duration as an ICE truck.

6) Surprise! All vehicles have some form of gear reduction to get high engine/motor RPM’s down to road speeds. It doesn’t matter if its called a “transmission” that is in one location; or a reducer assembly joining electric motors in multiple locations. There will always be gears; the question is whether more than 1 or 2 selections of gearing is provided; or say, 10 of them, as in the new Ford/Chevy 10 speed automatic transmission. In order for any truck to match a variety of OR, hauling, towing, crawling, and traction (e.g., slippery) conditions, a choice of applied torque and wheel speeds are needed. One size will not fit all!

============================

I wouldn't expect any of the statist propagandists at the Washington Compost to know what trucks are, how they operate, who buys them and why they do. Their only concern is repeating leftist propaganda and trying their best to force other people to live within in the bizarre parameters conjured up by their insane groupthink. In this case it is smugness and eco-fascism.

Consumers don't want electric cars. The technology is too expensive and the vehicles perform poorly as passenger cars. Electric trucks would be an absolute freaking nightmare. If it wasn't for government creating a false market for it by shoveling taxpayer dollars at consumers and manufacturers nobody would make or buy them because it's not profitable or economically feasible to manufacture or buy.

Man, I admire the anti Washington Post people here, but you guys are really dumb in the area of engineering.

Look, electric propulsion is much better than connecting the combustion engine directly to the wheels. Especially when pulling very heavy loads. That's a fact! But battery technology is not good enough yet.

So, that is why range extender generator engines are completely doable now and have been for a long time now. You know, a combustion engine connected to a generator that supplies the electricity to the electric propulsion motors. And you can ditch most of the gearing (contrary to another comment, it is waaaaaay cheaper to build gears for electric propelled vehicles than a whole transmission).

So why do we not have them? Because , like you all, people are dumb and don't demand them. Also, companies don't want to spend to change their product. They know they can milk a dumb population. Also, people like you are so dumb, you don't send politicians to D.C. to break up this monopolistic behavior. You send them to D.C. to raid the treasury (which has been gone for a long time, by the way).

Sure, Washington Post people are dumb, but so are you guys in your own way.

@Troy

And you are VERY smart. Obviously.

The only people who should be obsessed with coal rolling are state troopers calling for a tow truck to impound a coal roller.

Off road is more of an image/mindset issue. And yes im guilty of it too. An electric truck could easily look the part and even easily deliver a higher level of off road performance than say a desert runner style 4X2 or a stock 4x4 with standard tires. Looking the part and handling snowy roads, wet grass/muddy field concert parking could easily be handled by a 4X4 electric truck that could bring just as much off road performance as a Ridgeline (which is more than what most people need). Raptor, TRD, ZR2, Power Wagon, Wrangler, Pro4X is largely more about show than actual use for most and a level of performance vastly underused and un needed by most who buy it.

An electric truck can and should make tremendous success for many and be bought on its merits. Its silly that this article was focused on the 2 silliest overall aspects of trucks instead of the bigger picture.

Troy, the free market will decide what works best and what doesn't and what people actually want. The free market brought us the muscle car era, government kicked it in the teeth and it took a long time, decades, to bring back the kinds of cars that people actually wanted. The free market brought us efficient long-lasting simple diesel HD trucks, then the government kicked them in the teeth and made them comply with insane emissions regulations. People also wanted compact trucks. Again, the government put an end to that.

If you really want to have a conversation about a diesel-electric vehicle that has a small diesel generator that runs at full tilt constantly charging a bank of batteries, then yeah that might work in light duty applications but will still burn fuel doing so. People at the Washington Compost who live in their own world and take public transit to work live and die by the liberal agenda whose gospel says that oil and carbon are evil. They really believe that crap. Hybrids and even electric cars are just a stop-gap in the agenda to put everyone in public housing and force everyone onto public transit. The ultimate goal is for you to not have any freedom. Sophie Yeo is just another useful idiot who has been brainwashed by socialism.

They better not force this crap down our throats. We already have a Raptor that sounds like a turbo minivan. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!! They might as well force us all to wear Richard Simmons shorts to save the planet by saving fabric. The market better decide this with no arm twisting from our elected leaders.

All you have to do is look at the first several comments to this article to realize the Post was telling the absolute truth. People who use the trucks as they are designed to be used don't worry about such things as Rolling Coal but that's less than 50% of pickup owners. The rest pretty much use their trucks as status symbols, arguing about how their particular choice is better than any of the others in any kind of social situation.

It's amazing how childish supposed adults can be.

People who use the trucks as they are designed to be used don't worry about such things as Rolling Coal but that's less than 50% of pickup owners. The rest pretty much use their trucks as status symbols ...It's amazing how childish supposed adults can be.

@Roadwhale

The pseudo-intellectual tone you bring to these conversations makes you sound like a jerk. Try showing a little respect for your fellow contributors. It's ok to vigorously disagree over ideas, but that does not give you the right to smear half of the truck owners in America.

As usual, nmgom, your opinion is your opinion and hardly ever based on fact.

1) The market place ultimately determines vehicle-purchase preferences (gee, there’s a shocker!), NOT Big Daddy government, at least not in America. That means if an EV is best for X uses, some people may buy it; if a HYBRID is best for Y uses, some people may buy that; and if an ICE is best for Z purposes, others may buy that.
---- No. It is the PERCEPTION of what is better that drives the marketplace; that's why vehicle sales are driven far more by advertising than any real study of the vehicles' capabilities. Your own later arguments prove this fact.

2) America is no longer dependent on “foreign oil”. We are weaned off foreign oil, and have in fact become a net exporter of oil! My, how different from 1974!
---- Not true. We are not 'weaned off of foreign oil' because that foreign oil is of a better grade than the oil we pump and mine (yes, mine...as in hard-rock processing one way or another to get it.) True, we are a net exporter but the oil we send to China is nowhere near as good as the "sweet, clean" middle-eastern or even north Atlantic crude.

3) The prices of oil, diesel, gasoline and CNG are now, and will continues to be, dirt cheap for at least 10 years, ...
---- Not necessarily true. We've just seen our first real jump in oil prices in over five years and I fully expect those prices to rise more before leveling out. It's not because we've found so many sources, the vast majority in the US being of much poorer grade than European and Eurasian, but rather because today's cars and trucks don't use as much and they needed to cut the prices it improve demand. Don't believe me? Take a look at what happened to the truck market at the last TWO oil price spikes back in the '00s.

4) “Big Oil” blocking technology in this era is a myth. Large oil companies, like BP, Exxon-Mobil, and Shell are branching out to other energy sources and methods, and are pouring funding into energy research, — like wind, solar, H2 Fuel cell, Audi E-gas process, etc. Think about it: do you believe that Big Oil would allow itself (and its stockholders) to be blind-sided by new energy technologies without OWNING them first? (^_^).
---- They already have been blind-sided; that's why they're advertising so hard against non-oil-using vehicles by claiming they're dirtier than ICEVs by shifting the emissions to the power plant. It is well proven that even with that shift, BEVs are better than 50% cleaner than ICEVs when including the electrical generation sources even before solar, wind and new nuclear options come on line.

5) EV’s will be neither practical nor accepted for general-use pickup trucks in America for the foreseeable future, because of these factors:
a) They would need a range of greater than 500 miles while hauling and/or towing.
---- Show me any pickup truck that can haul or tow at its rated maximum for 500 miles without auxiliary tanks. Even with carrying 36 gallons on board with dual tanks, they would barely manage that range on flat land. The US is not THAT flat except along the coastal flood plains.

b) They must charge fully in 10 minutes or less.
---- Bull. Anyone driving long distances needs rest time and that "500 miles" is roughly ten hours of driving at the truck's operational limits. The driver needs more than 10 minutes to recharge, so why not let the vehicle and the driver recharge at the same time?

c) They must cost LESS than a comparable ICE truck.
---- Eventually they will. Why? Because they have fewer parts and fewer things to go wrong. The technology is only getting started.

d) They must be supported by charging stations all over the country (America).
---- One brand already has that capability. Other charging networks are being built but not in places where they're most needed--on highways BETWEEN cities rather than scattered around the hearts of said cities.

e) They must have a supporting electric grid capable of powering more than 25% of all customers who would drive all EV’s (which does not yet exist).
---- Did you know that the amount of wind power alone in the US could power over 17 MILLION BEVs?

f) They must not depend on exotic metals like indium and cobalt, which are rare and rapidly depleting.
---- Cobalt is hardly 'exotic' and neither is Lithium. Just because some metals are called "rare earth" doesn't mean they're rare; they're remarkably common but were unknown when discovered because they were considered a waste product in the mining tailings of other, more recognized minerals.

g) They must have adequate VERY cold-temperature performance (which they do not now).
---- Bull. At least one brand has demonstrated cold-temperature performance at least equivalent to diesel as far as being able to move a load. Note that even an ICEV needs to be pre-heated to perform properly in extreme cold.

h) They must have a hauling and towing capacity comparable to ICE trucks of the same size and class, AND must haul/tow at that max for at least the same time duration as an ICE truck.
---- Believe me, the relative horsepower of a BEV is far superior to the "typical" diesel-powered version. Why? Because all that torque is available at zero (0) rpm, meaning the electric version can get the load moving more quickly and more smoothly than the most powerful diesels on the road. Why do you think railroad locomotives are diesel-ELECTRIC and not geared diesel?

6) Surprise! All vehicles have some form of gear reduction to get high engine/motor RPM’s down to road speeds. It doesn’t matter if its called a “transmission” that is in one location; or a reducer assembly joining electric motors in multiple locations. There will always be gears; the question is whether more than 1 or 2 selections of gearing is provided; or say, 10 of them, as in the new Ford/Chevy 10 speed automatic transmission.
---- Totally, 100% false. Diesel-electric locomotives use a single reduction gear on each axle. The Tesla Model S uses a single reduction gear on the axle and it can still beat all but a purpose-built drag racer down the quarter mile. Meanwhile, another electric just set a new record on the Pike's Peak Hill Climb this year... despite having to stop and reboot its computers partway up the mountain.

@Roadwhale: For a person that accuses others of not knowing their facts, you should try learning some basic facts about the US oil industry. We are still dependent on foreign oil and currently import roughly 8 million barrels per day.

"Consumers don't want electric cars. The technology is too expensive and the vehicles perform poorly as passenger cars. Electric trucks would be an absolute freaking nightmare. If it wasn't for government creating a false market for it by shoveling taxpayer dollars at consumers and manufacturers nobody would make or buy them because it's not profitable or economically feasible to manufacture or buy."
---- Posted by: BD | Sep 5, 2017 12:18:07 AM

Roughly half a million consumers today would say "BULL" to that statement, BD. Yes, I agree that while they are in the startup phases of development they're expensive, but then the first few iterations of anything that is 'different' is expensive. That won't last.

The performance factor is... far better than you want to believe. Electric motors have the ability to provide maximum torque at minimum speed, far superior to any gasoline or diesel engine. Electric vehicles have been considered slow in the past because they used very small motors, less than 10 horsepower in some cases, to power very small cars and--need I say it?--golf carts. Actually, when you get down to that size you're probably looking at 1 horsepower or less. Some 15 years ago a man modified an old Land Rover Defender by replacing its engine with a 40hp electric motor and loading the floor with lead-acid marine batteries. Despite the weight disadvantage, it outperformed a brand-new 180hp diesel Isuzu SUV on an off-road challenge that included a well-known trail obstacle called The Waterfall. Granted, that one was home-built and only had a range of 40 miles or so due to the type of batteries used but it DID prove that electrics don't "perform poorly" as a passenger car. Tesla and even Chevrolet are proving it even more today.

Electric trucks would have a huge advantage over conventional trucks in both economy and performance, though I will grant that unrecharged range would be marginally (yes, MARGINALLY) limiting.

You need to disabuse yourself of your prejudices and actually study the technology, because electrics offer advantages ICEV owners can only dream about. How about never needing to visit a gas station again for local driving? How about recharging costs ½ to ⅓rd what you're current paying to refuel that truck? What about starting every day with the equivalent of a full tank?

As for cost, today's trucks are as expensive as a Tesla Model X with the 75kWh battery pack aboard. Truck prices are going up, EV prices are coming down.

You need to disabuse yourself of your prejudices Posted by: RoadWhale™ | Sep 6, 2017

@Roadwhale

I almost laughed out loud What a joke.

"Try showing a little respect for your fellow contributors. It's ok to vigorously disagree over ideas, but that does not give you the right to smear half of the truck owners in America."
---- Posted by: papajim | Sep 6, 2017 8:29:50 AM

I would say the same of most people commenting on this forum, PJ, including yourself. Very few here any more debate reasonably; it's all, "Mine is Greatest!" or "Ford is Crap" or whatever else they want to say. I'm sick and tired of the childish commentary by everyone here!

"@Roadwhale: For a person that accuses others of not knowing their facts, you should try learning some basic facts about the US oil industry. We are still dependent on foreign oil and currently import roughly 8 million barrels per day."
---- Posted by: Refman | Sep 6, 2017 8:53:20 AM

If you'll read my commentary again, Refman, that's what I said. I was directly responding to NMGOM's comment that we were "weaned from foreign oil."

America's energy companies are prepared to compete globally. No doubt.

America's exports of coal, crude and the new ideas for using these resources in the 21st century guarantee a place for US mined and refined solutions.

Today America is ready to lead in energy and we have a new president who is thankfully pulling the plug on the previous president's silly ideas.

RoadWhale - - -

Not to disparage, but, --- you seem to enjoy taking isolated small-scale situations and generalizing them to what could/does exist on a macro-scale. You seem to have trouble reading and understanding technical information. You seem to be marginal at distinguishing between fact and opinion. Are you a journalist? What is your degree background?

Let's respectfully go through your comments (or responses) one at a time:

RW: "As usual, nmgom, your opinion is your opinion and hardly ever based on fact."

N: With a sample-size of a few, -- I haven't commented here enough for you to know what "usual" is, --- or do you just want to throw mud at others? But otherwise, I am old enough (74) for my comments to be based on both fact and experience: they are not arbitrary, and they are not largely based on opinion.

RW: "It is the PERCEPTION of what is better that drives the marketplace; that's why vehicle sales are driven far more by advertising than any real study of the vehicles' capabilities. Your own later arguments prove this fact."

N: It simply doesn't matter since perception is reality to the purchaser. Some of his driving-forces-to-buy are based on actual comparative features, capabilities, and pricing; but, even with trucks, much of his motivation may be emotional, a perception-based factor. It's not just one thing, RoadWhale.

RW: "We are not 'weaned off of foreign oil' because that foreign oil is of a better grade than the oil we pump and mine (yes, mine...as in hard-rock processing one way or another to get it.) True, we are a net exporter but the oil we send to China is nowhere near as good as the "sweet, clean" middle-eastern or even north Atlantic crude."

First, we are now a net exporter of oil, and have been since 2011:
"In May 2011, the country became a net exporter of refined petroleum products.[2]" Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_energy_independence

Second, the latter part of this comment concerning kind of oil is not relevant: the quality of our oil is not the issue (obviously); the direction of import or export IS the issue. The "sweetness" of Middle-eastern oil is hardly germane to the topic.

RW: "We've just seen our first real jump in oil prices in over five years and I fully expect those prices to rise more before leveling out. It's not because we've found so many sources, the vast majority in the US being of much poorer grade than European and Eurasian..."

N: Barring natural catastrophes, the short term energy data suggest that prices will remain approximately flat for at least two years, as plotted here: https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/
Longer term data, on a 5-10 year scale, show a small inconsequential rise: https://www.thebalance.com/oil-price-forecast-3306219

Obviously, Hurricane Harvey and now Hurricane Irma, WILL cause a sharp increase in fuel prices, and they were not part of the standard predictions that I offered.

RW: [Big Oil Companies] "... already have been blind-sided; that's why they're advertising so hard against non-oil-using vehicles by claiming they're dirtier than ICEVs by shifting the emissions to the power plant."

I'm afraid not: Big Oil is now intimately involved - - -
a) https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/08/27/is-one-big-oil-company-giving-up-on-big-oil.aspx
b) https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/21/oil-majors-investments-renewable-energy-solar-wind
c) https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2017/0206/Why-some-oil-companies-are-investing-in-renewables

Big oil has stockholders to keep happy, RW, just like other large corporations.

RW: "Show me any pickup truck that can haul or tow at its rated maximum for 500 miles without auxiliary tanks.."

N: 2017 Ram 2500 Crew Cab 2WD, Cummins Diesel, 6.5-ft box, 3.42 Diff, 6-speed Daimler G56 manual transmission, 31 gallon tank, range: 750 miles empty / 500 miles at 2/3 capacity in either towing or hauling flat. (I did not say, "maximum"; in fact, I can't: it's not broken in yet.)

On topic: No EV truck could reliably travel 500 miles hauling (ie.e,) 2000 of load without recharging. Batteries deliver max torque at low RPM, and decreased torque at higher RPMs, where the truck needs it most while struggling under load: batteries get consumed VERY rapidly then, and often overheat as well.

RW: "Bull. Anyone driving long distances needs rest time and that "500 miles" is roughly ten hours" ...

Sorry, RW. It's got to be 10 minutes or less to recharge, in order to compete with ICE's.
No EV pickup truck with a 2000-lb. load will travel more than ~100 miles (estimate, with current LiH batteries) before the need to recharge. That's having to stop every 1.5 hours, when traveling at 70 MPH. Currently, the fast-charge time is about 45 minutes at "supercharger" (SC) stations, which means you'd have to spend 45 minutes of "down time" for every 90 minutes of travel time, a 50% downtime rate. In addition, EV makers like Tesla advise NOT to use SC's very often because they gradually destroy the battery:
https://electrek.co/2017/05/07/tesla-limits-supercharging-speed-number-charges/

RW: "[Lower Price]...Eventually they will. Why? Because they have fewer parts and fewer things to go wrong. The technology is only getting started."

N: This is sheer speculation and YOUR opinion, RW. You'll have to give me links to document this claim. So far, I have seen NO comparable EV vehicles of any type, much less hybrids, that can be made more cheaply than a simple ICE car of the same size and seating.

RW: "[SC's] ...One brand already has that capability. Other charging networks are being built but not in places where they're most needed..."

N: Here is a specific being generalized; or reasoning from an anecdote, both fallacious.
"One brand" does not constitute the ubiquity needed across the county, with 100,000 charging stations required to compete with ICE stations:
http://247wallst.com/economy/2014/05/22/why-are-there-115000-or-150000-gas-stations-in-america/

RW: "Did you know that the amount of wind power alone in the US could power over 17 MILLION BEVs?"

N: RW, you are have reading issues again. I did not say anything about the power sources: my comment referred to the well-documented poor state of America's electric grid for DELIVERY of power. And current estimates are that if 25% (or more) of all ICE vehicles in America were converted to EV's, the grid would collapse.
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/11/will-electric-cars-break-grid/

RW: "Cobalt is hardly 'exotic' and neither is Lithium. Just because some metals are called "rare earth" doesn't mean they're rare.."

N: More understanding issues, RW? I said INDIUM, not lithium. Indium is used to provide extremely condensed magnetic fields in the ring motors that power EV's.
Indium is rare: "Indium is the 68th most abundant element in Earth's crust at approximately 50 ppb." Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium
Cobalt is rare: "It comprises 0.0029% of the Earth's crust." Ref:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt

Neither element is anything to hang your hat on for the future (my opinion, OK?), and EV makes better come up with alternatives.

RW: "[Cold Temp's] Bull. At least one brand has demonstrated cold-temperature performance at least equivalent to diesel as far as being able to move a load."

N: "Now, Jimmy, here you go again!" -- Ronald Reagan to Jimmy Carter during the Debates in 1980. You're doing it again, RW. One test case does not mean a thing: I've done lab experiments in which I could do many things, which, when scaled up, fell flat on their cute little faces!
You'll have to show me links on this one, RW. The facts are that batteries show 4-5 times the temperature decline of ICE (gas) engines; and heating a vehicle interior on long trips (greater than 4 hrs), while driving at 70 MPH, consumes the battery VERY quickly.
I certainly could not feel secure in ANY EV driving from Milwaukee to Minneapolis in I 94 at -15 deg F, at 70 MPH.

RW: "Believe me, the relative horsepower of a BEV is far superior to the "typical" diesel-powered version. Why? Because all that torque is available at zero (0) rpm, meaning the electric version can get the load moving more quickly and more smoothly than the most powerful diesels on the road."

N: This has been mentioned above. It is NOT max torque a "0" RPM" that matters for travel; it's the max torque at DRVING, ROAD-SPEED RPM that counts. And that is where an EV pickup is going to have an issue with range, maintained speed, and low temperature charge consumption.
Current gas ICE's and diesel ICE's already have plenty of low-RPM torque to get things moving, BUT they also have sustained torque at 1500-1800 RPM (diesel) and 2000-2500 RPM (gas) to keep traveling especially up hills under load.

RW: "[Transmission is EV's] ...Totally, 100% false. Diesel-electric locomotives use a single reduction gear on each axle. The Tesla Model S uses a single reduction gear on the axle and it can still beat all but a purpose-built drag racer down the quarter mile. Meanwhile, another electric just set a new record on the Pike's Peak Hill Climb this year..."

N: Wow. Talk about reasoning by inapplicable analogy! What in the world does a diesel locomotive have to do with an EV pickup truck? The weight accommodation of a locomotive makes a diesel/electric combination possible; not so in a pickup, where hauling and towing capacities are key.
Tesla makes cars not trucks! A truck requires multiple torque selections for various driving modes: Off-road, hauling, towing rock-crawling, mud, snow, highway, precision-backing, etc. And that means that a multiple-gear device (say at least 5 gears) will be needed for an EV just to provide good control, --- whether it's called a transmission or something else. And which is less expensive?: One such device in the middle of the vehicle, or one of them for each motor at each wheel, totaling 4?
The short-duration Pikes Peak run for a car has no relevance to pickup trucks here whatsoever: another inapplicable analogy.

=======================

@NMGOM:

Ok, point by point again. Oh, and I'm no spring chicken myself, so your age doesn't exactly give you a pedestal to stand on against me. My experience is a career in technology, from hands-on technical services to engineering in many fields from consumer electronics, automotive and aviation. One thing I have discovered in my career is that engineers tend to forget that systems need to be serviced and can make mistakes in design when developing a new product that the technicians end up having to re-design to make them work properly. I've surprised more than one engineer who couldn't figure out why a circuit wasn't working by simply pointing out a minor component change or even mounting method they'd overlooked. One such engineer didn't even know how to respond when I asked him exactly what kind of waveform he was after when he was experiencing a stability issue in his circuit. Tunnel vision is a bad thing in engineering. But that's beside the point.

"N: It simply doesn't matter since perception is reality to the purchaser. Some of his driving-forces-to-buy are based on actual comparative features, capabilities, and pricing; but, even with trucks, much of his motivation may be emotional, a perception-based factor. It's not just one thing, RoadWhale."
--- Perception. Which was better, VHS or Beta? Why? Which did the Market choose? Why?
As such, is the Market's choice of vehicle type really better, or just comfortable? Now, in my own case I chose Beta. Quality was better and the hardware was a damned sight more reliable. I have a 35-year-old Betamax VCR that's still functional, though replacement belts for the drive are getting harder to find. Since I've converted most of my tapes to digital anyway, I really don't need to maintain it any more. Technology changes and you need to be able to change with it.

I could address each of your points if you wish but I hope you can now see where I'm coming from. I do understand people will buy what they THINK is better, but their perceptions tend to follow what they're used to rather than what's really better for the purpose. They also tend to buy what's cheaper up front and ignore the fact they have to replace it more frequently and often at an overall higher cost over time.

@NMGOM: I apologize for adding this second comment to the one above but I simply must.

You're making statements based on assumptions throughout your list without knowing any of that data as fact. You assume a pickup truck would "burn through its batteries" on grades, even going so far as to assume they would overheat on those grades. Depending on design and capacity, that's not necessarily true, or completely so, anyway. Sure, it would use more power than a sedan, I accept that, but simply moderating speed to 65mph would reduce the demand, even with a load, and you can be sure a pickup truck designed for heavy loads would carry more battery than a sedan. Include a proper cooling system like Tesla's and overheating would be limited only to maximum output situations, which honestly shouldn't ever occur except under very limited circumstances. I would guarantee that a half-ton BEV truck would be able to carry its rated load up to Eisenhower tunnel faster and cheaper than even your diesel with the same load; same with the now-standardized climb to that dam in Arizona (don't live there so I rarely remember the name of it until I read it in another article.)

I live on the east coast. I make an annual trip down I-81 to I-40, which means riding along the face of the Appalachian mountains, crossing to the west side in southern Virginia. I've watched 18-wheelers blow their turbos on some of those grades even at those mountains' lower altitudes compared to the Rockies and Sierras. I've achieved 25mpg average on that highway over the course of a 700-mile drive with a JKU Wrangler.

I know what's possible, despite others telling me such is impossible. Even now, the BEV Chevy Bolt is achieving in excess of 300 miles per charge on a mere 60kWh battery pack and some owners are approaching 400 miles. Why? Because they're not driving at 80mph like so many idiots on the highway. The Bolt is only rated for 235 miles. You can't assume something is impossible when there is nothing to test that assumption.

I, personally, disagree and strongly so that 10-minute recharging is necessary, despite your's and so many others' arguments. Pay attention to your next long trip and tell me that you don't stop shortly before or after your refueling stop for food, bathroom or other break, that doesn't take at least another 20-30 minutes. If you'd plugged in, that would be 30-40 minutes of charging time where your truck is sitting idle when you include your time at the pumps. Why not make one stop do everything, especially since you don't have to stand at the side of your truck while charging?

Use some logic, NMGOM. You're old enough to realize you don't have the kind of OTR stamina you used to have. Why rush? Slow down. Take it easy. Enjoy life, now that you're retired.

Get real. Nobody but urban libs who will never drive trucks, rich elites who buy them but never drive them, pajama-boy techies and Elon Musk are asking for an electric truck. How much is a Tesla model X? 80 grand? Higher? Yeah, only very few of the most expensive HD's cost that much and you can bet the technology to make them compete will be a lot more expensive than what is in the Tesla. My truck cost less than half of that brand new and doesn't take forever to charge.

I'm prejudiced because I pointed out the technology is not available and if it were it cannot compete in either price or performance? No, you're prejudiced for hearing the truth and not accepting it.

@NMGOM

I'm sure you've noticed by now that Roadwhale believes in word count. The more the merrier. He also thinks it makes him right.

He also loves getting the last word

papajim (and RoadWhale too) - - -

P: "I'm sure you've noticed by now that Roadwhale believes in word count. The more the merrier. He also thinks it makes him right. He also loves getting the last word"

Yes, but ultimately, it doesn't matter who "gets" the last word.
It matters who "gets" the final credibility and documentation to show the truth that needs to be told...

Many people can voice opinions. What is needed here, and in other comment sections on other websites, is greater attention to factual information, and greater courtesies in dealing with fellow commenters.

I will conclude this discussion.

==================

I'd totally buy an all-electric pickup truck.

off road it would be worthless
as a delivery vehicle worthless as cost is too high
as a work truck worthless
as a personal vehicle it may have some potential though only for a narrow segment of buyers due to price and it no being very useful for truck duties.



Post a Comment

Please remember a few rules before posting comments:

  • Try to be civil to your fellow blog readers.
  • Stay on topic. We want to hear your opinions and thoughts, but please only comment about the specified topic in the blog post.
  • Your email will not be shown.

If you have a TypeKey or TypePad account, please Sign In

Home | Buy or Sell a Truck | News | Special Reports

Powered by Cars.com. By using this site, you agree to our terms of service | © 2017 Cars.com | Privacy Statement | Contact Us