Make it happen #1. All we nee is to get it into the F-150 before Nissan,Dodge & GM wake up! Audi has the right path, across the board diesel and all wheel (4x4) drive.

I second that - get a diesel in the F-150! Wait, could I order one of those test mules through a dealer?

Impressive! Pitty I would expect it to be about $7000 over the V10 (same as the 6.4L). I could wish all I want, but I don't really need a diesel badly enough to spend $7000 extra just for the engine. But the 6.2L V8 in the F150 though...... Now that's something I could see myself getting.

I agree with Alex, at 7000 dollars OR more with an auto is way too much. 400 horse power is nice but is not needed in 1 ton trucks. 350-360 is plenty, and more power doesn't necessarily mean more towing. I love diesels and the power but not at that price. what it comes down to is id rather have the gas engine. 7000 $ can buy you a lot of fuel for a long time. At least with gas engines if you get a more powerful/ bigger engine it wont be more then a 2000 dollar option. I like the Direction Ford is going in but they have to keep the price down, or they will loose a lot of business despite what the other 2 company's are going through. The people that need the diesels in their Trucks are going to have to pay a hefty price :S, but hey if they can keep the price down then HOT DOG!

Something does not make sense here. All reports I have seen so far say rated power will be produced at 2800 RPM. The formula for calculating horsepower is hp = (RPM X torque)/5252. It takes 750 lb-ft to make 400 hp @ 2800 RPM. You only get 386 hp with 725 lb-ft at 2800 RPM. However, if peak power speed is increased to 2900 RPM, then 725 lb-ft does make 400 hp. Either the torque is 750 lb-ft, the rated speed is 2900, or the engine makes less than 400 hp. If the rated speed is 2800 RPM, I think a power rating of 380 or 385 hp is more likely.

@Mike: From what I've also heard recently, don't be surprised if the 6.7 torque figure is bigger than 725. It's one reason I've kept quiet on the final figures - because there's still time for them to change.

I really want a diesel in a F-150, but even a de-tuned Scorpion would be too much for the truck. Give me a 6 cylinder diesel that can pull my 8K trailer w/o running out of steam and give me mid-twenties mpg cruising down the highway unloaded.

Get a new calculator. Using the supplied formula 400 hp is 2800 rpm * 750/5252. Must be a flat torque curve.

I would gladly take a fully charged 6.7 in my next F150 Raptor. I am sure the suspension would not mind that engine in the bay. The power would be unbelievable. When you were in 3rd and 4th gear you could fly by people on the highway with gas motors.

It would be great!!!

400hp/725ft-lbs tq...from the factory...damn! That's a monster.

I wonder if the engine being tested in the F150 is a 6 cyl version of the Scorpion. Kind of like the 5.4L V8 is the same as the 6.8L V10, but with two cylinders lopped off.

That would be a great thing for them to do. They could keep cost down because it uses a lot of the larger V8 engine's parts, but instead of the focus being on maximum towing capacity, it would be more on fuel economy. I figure lopping two cylinders off the V8 would give around 300hp/365 ft-lbs tq, which is plenty for a half ton. I bet it could still be rated to tow at least 10,000lbs.

On a side note, please please Ford, put a diesel in the Expedition EL. No one makes a big diesel SUV anymore. You can't even get a duramax in the 2500 version of the Suburban, even when you can get it in the 2500 pickups and SUVs.

Edit to above:

The numbers for a 6cyl version of the scorpion would be around 300/545 based on the 400/725 number for the V8. Again, plenty for a half ton.

This is all well and good, but what I really want to see is the new engine in a truck on a chasis dyno. Real world hp and torque figures at the rear wheels is what important. Having tons of power isnt useful enless its getting to the gorund. The 6.4L is rated stock 350hp/650lb-ft at the fly wheel. At the wheels is more like 250ish and 560-600 lb-ft.

@toyboxrv: That is exactly my point. To make 400 hp @ 2800 RPM, the engine is going to need an absolutely flat torque curve with 750 lb-ft from 1600 to 2800 RPM. This is certainly possible with an electronically controlled diesel. However, first you need a transmission that can handle 750 lb-ft. We will find out soon enough. According to Autoweek, Ford will announce the ratings at the Texas State Fair on September 24th.

Please Ford stop teasing us with this on again off again on again with a possible diesel in a F150. A 6cyl diesel cranking out 300hp with 500+ torque is plenty in a half ton. Not everybody can afford to spend 10 to 15 thousand more for a Super Duty. The current 5.4L at 310hp and 390 torque is capable of pulling 11,300lbs. As we all know trailer towing is more about the torque then HP. A 6cyl diesel with the above power rating should be good for around 12,000lbs in the F150 while getting a lot better fuel mileage... somewhere in the range of mid 20's. This will only work if the cost of the motor is reasonable say only 4 thousand more than the gas job.

Just a couple of comments on other comments:

1. The F450 has a 12 ton maximum tow rating, I'm sure anybody towing that much will more than appreciate 725lb-ft.

2. I wouldn't want a diesel in the Raptor. It would add a few hundred pounds and wouldn't be as fun to drive as a gas engine. In a truck meant for sport, I'd rather bounce a big ol' gas V8 off the rev limiter.

3. I'd absolutely love a diesel F150. Give it to us with 325hp and 500lb-ft. I imagine that combo would net FE ratings of 17/23 in a 4X4 extended cab version.

You are forgetting about the 3.5L V6 EcoBoost that is expected to produce 400+ torque at only 1500 rpm and 400HP for the F150.

Being a gearhead, I alway reflexively think more power is better. After all, I don't have to use it, but it feels good to have.

But .. were I buying a 3/4-1 ton work truck, esp if it was to be driven by the crew, I'd scratch my head about the 400hp. That size truck is likely to be pulling nothing but the load in its bed (thinking of roofing, masons, etc) or something less than five tons. Sure it may be rated to tow 18,000, but to pull that general range of weight every day the job will likely be assigned to a heavier rig.

At a gross combination weight up to 5 tons, getting to the destination and back without going 45 in 70mph traffic the truck needs maybe 250hp and 500 ft-lb. Above that it just means the crew can have some fun with it when its empty. And they will - its not their truck! Guess who is liable while they're doing that. So I see I'm paying for more engine and driveline than I need to do the jobs I will assign to a 1-ton truck. Sure if they were pulling 10-20K lbs there may be advantages to running a 400hp diesel at part throttle instead of 250 often at WOT. But that's it -- any other time it's more motor than truck. For one truck, driven by me, for something other than work, it would be great, especially after being chipped for another 100hp. Would I buy a fleet of these to be driven by a rotating cast of characters? No!

Now it would make a great performance option for the F150 and Expedition. Those are work/personal/fun vehicles, and here the diesel would likely get 30-40% better mileage than an equal gas engine. Dunno what's taking them so long ... 1/2 tons have room for V10s and 8L big-blocks, so the diesel should fit fine.

Gearhead,

I agree 100%. The 6.7L sounds like an awesome engine, and I would buy it in my fleet chassis cabs (dumptrucks and the like) that will do heavy work. But, for regular pickups that aren't pulling a fifth-wheel, it seems like it would simply be overkill. Not just overkill in power either, but also overkill in price, and probably overkill in fuel economy.

That's why I brought up the idea of a 6 cyl version. It would share a lot of the same parts and service intervals as the 8-cyl version (which is nice for fleet mechanics). It would make around 350hp/550ft-lbs tq, which is plenty for hauling and towing with a traditional hitch. Finally, best of all, fuel economy would probably be better and the price would probably be lower; which would really make it more enticing to fleets.

The other nice thing about a 6cyl version is it would probably work in applications where the larger V8 might not; such as vans, suvs, and smaller trucks.

peak torque and peak HP are almost never @ the same RPM..Where an engine breathes best is where its TQ peak will be, and the place where it's still generating respectable not-quite-peak torque @ higher RPM is where the HP peak will be.

*donning my Cummins inline-6 body armor and Nomex flame suit here*

I've got a mildly BOMBed '98 12-valve Dodge, that's been tweaked from 180/400 (factory) to 254/750-ish. The torque peaks somewhere around 14-1600, but the HP peaks @ about 2500. (if I'm remembering a dyno run from 7+ years ago correctly)

I don't know if the computer that drives your V-8s defuels your engines in order to artificially chop the lid off of a "peak" or not. I suspect the "flat torque curve" is acheived that way, more often than not.

****now rich jumps into the Dodge and clatters happily down the road, wondering why the fascination with V-8's****

......but, that ain't to say that I wouldn't dig a well-made Diesel V6 (or even a very smoothified I-4 or I-5 or I-6) in a half-ton

Wow, it will probably so good that Ford will STILL offer CAT or CUMMINS opiton in the medium trucks. If it is not good enough for them, it should not be offered in any HD truck. At least GM shows enough confidence in the Duramax to offer it in there medium duties.

Beezer, you are right about GM putting the Duramax in their medium duty trucks (4500 and above). However I believe that GM has now stopped production of those trucks and is out of the Class 4 and above size trucks.

Rich, your assumption that the computer restricts fueling to chop off the top of the torque curve is correct. For several years now, the maximum torque output of the pickup truck diesels has beeen limited by the transmission's torque capacity. As an example, the manual transmission version of the Cummins 6.7L produces a constant 610 lb-ft from 1400 to 3013 RPM. Using the formula hp = (torque X RPM)/5252, you will see that 610 lb-ft at 3013 RPM = 350 hp (Dodge rounds off the RPM to 3000 RPM for marketing literature). The automatic transmission version of the Cummins 6.7 makes 650 lb-ft from 1500 to 2700 RPM, then the torque rolls off to 610 lb-ft @ 3013 RPM, giving the same 350 hp rating as the manual.

The Cummins ISB 6.7L is available with more torque, but less power in medium-duty versions. The highest medium-duty rating is 750 lb-ft @ 1800 RPM, with 325 hp @ 2600 RPM (657 lb-ft @ rated power). Ironically, this medium-duty rating of the Cummins ISB 6.7L is not available in Dodge trucks, but is available in the Ford F-650 and F-750.

Beezer, the Cat C7 (7.2L) is currently available as an option in the F-650 and F-750, but will not be available in trucks built after December 31, 2009 because Cat elected to leave the on-highway diesel market due to declining market share and the cost to develop engines to meet the 2010 emission regulations.

The Power Stroke 6.7L will almost certainly be available in Class 4 & 5 (F-450 & F-550), but the Cummins ISB 6.7L may be the only option in Class 6 & 7 (F-650 & F-750). The Power Stroke 6.7L power rating in the F-450 and F-550 might be limited to around 325 hp for durability reasons, similar to the chassis cab ratings of the current Power Stroke 6.4L and Cummins 6.7.

The Duramax 6.6L was offered in Class 4 & 5 medium duty trucks, but with maximum ratings of 330 hp @ 3000 RPM and 620 lb-ft @ 1600 RPM (order code LYE). An Isuzu 6HK1-TC 7.8L I-6 with a maximum rating of 300 hp @ 220 RPM and 860 lb-ft @ 1440 RPM was used in Class 6-8 GMC trucks. In June 2009, GM announced that they were leaving the medium-duty truck business

Correction to my last post, the rated speed of the Isuzu 7.8L is 2200 RPM, not 220 RPM.

goog call, guys. nobody should be talking about confiedenc of gm in their medium duties when gm is not going to making them anymore. lol.

ah just asking... don't these 6.4L engines blow head bolts? smile ty

Mahidra diesel-hybrid trucks are coming from India this year

Seems to be a steady stream of so-called "leaks" , its more of a marketing ploy I think, but either way I'm excited to see this.

"peak torque and peak HP are almost never @ the same RPM..Where an engine breathes best is where its TQ peak will be, and the place where it's still generating respectable not-quite-peak torque @ higher RPM is where the HP peak will be."

"I don't know if the computer that drives your V-8s defuels your engines in order to artificially chop the lid off of a "peak" or not. I suspect the "flat torque curve" is acheived that way, more often than not."

That's not entirely true when turbo's are involved, often times peak torque is reached at the point where the turbo reaches maximum boost. Maximum hp is usually at the turbo's max flow cap (or the engine's governed speed, or the injector's flow limit). Constant boost with increasing airflow as rpm's increase results in a flat torque curve. That's not to say you couldn't remove the boost limits and get a more "normal" torque curve, but then cylinder pressures increase at low RPMs and reduces engine life. Not to mention what it'd do to the drive train, something like that would probably result in something in the 400/1000.

Also the torque curve might not be as flat as you think it is, I saw a shot of the dashboard on the 2011 super duty somewhere. It clearly said "diesel only" and had a reline on the tach at 4000 rpms. Admittedly most of my experience with diesels is from equipment or medium duty trucks, but in my experience the governed speed is usually at or just above the hp peak. I suspect we could be looking at a 400hp@3800, 750@2000 engine here. If they've decided to really compete with cummins low end torque though we could be looking at a 400hp@3800, 750@1600 engine. That really would be a new kind of diesel and if it held together would turn the whole industry on its ear imo.

There's also the possibility they could be using variable cam timing like with most gas engines now, I'm not sure how effective that would be at stretching the torque curve at lower rpms though.

What's it weigh?

Lopping two cylinders off of a V-8 wouldn't necessarily result in 3/4 the power. There are too many variables to consider. It could be more or less......the biggest issue with chopping the Scorpion, though, is that it's a 90 degree engine, meaning the cylinders are banked at 90 degrees. 90 degrees is the ideal angle for a V8, but not anywhere near an ideal angle for a V6.... 60-62 degrees or so allows for a much smoother engine. It's not impossible...and it's been done with gasoline engines (e.g. Chevy 4.3, Dodge 3.9), that being said, it would be much more difficult to do it with a diesel because of the nature of the engine, they're naturally louder and coarser than gas engines and I imagine a V6 Scorpion would be extremely rough running unless they did a lot of expensive engineering, such as adding balance shafts and active engine mounts to quell vibration. As Cummins and BMW know, the ideal configuration for a 6 cylinder is inline. Maybe Ford could drop BMW's 3 liter diesel in the F-150....265 hp and 425 lb-ft.......that would never happen but it would be an awesome truck.

My guess is that instead of lopping cylinders off of the Scorpion, they'll drop the displacement and possibly take out some block material to make it a bit smaller and lighter for the F-150. Something in the 4.5-5.0 liter range would be plenty for a half ton......honestly, it would be plenty for a 3/4 ton as a possibly cheaper, entry level diesel. Torque and horsepower ratings keep spiraling out of control.....recall that a decade ago, diesel pickups had power ratings in the 175-220 hp or so range and 400 some-odd pound feet of torque. Nowadays, the previously mentioned BMW 3.0 diesel straight six has superior power and comparable torque to those old truck engines....and you can bet it's a hell of a lot smaller and lighter. My boss owns an '03 Silverado 2500 with the Duramax, and I drive it occasionally. That engine has 520 lb-ft, and I can't hardly even turn a corner in that truck while on the gas without the tires spinning or chirping....and that's "just" 520 lb-ft.....I can't imagine this Scorpion's 725 lb-ft or the new Duramax diesel's 765 lb-ft. It's getting crazy!

the big problem here is very few people in north america understand diesels. 1/2 and 3/4 ton pick-ups don't need such huge displacement from a diesel. this is just the bigger is better mentality. A properly sized engine for a diesel pick-up, 4 liter, 4 cylinder.cat already has one that puts out 300 hp and almost 600 lb/ft torque. this engine is too heavy for a pick-up , but the point is the displacement. Volvo

marine also builds their diesel's at one liter per cyl, it might not be the perfect displacement per cyl, but is close. I have been around and working on diesel's for over 35 yrs, everything from small yanmars to huge MTU's, just my opinion but I will put an engine of my own choice in my truck and it won't be an auto makers engine, at least not whats available now.

I am by no means an expert on the Power Storke, Duramax, Cummins, Cat or any other diesel motor. But I have noticed one odd thing, Ford Keeps making motor changes. Ford had a very good 7.3, that I have driven a bunch and have found a good strong and reliable motor. The 6.0. 6.4 and all the other variations over the last 5-7 years, it a concerning issue, heads, reliability etc.. Why does ford seem to offer the next greatest and best, then find it has "issues", then announce another in a year or 2. ...and never acknowledge any reasons or issues. Since the 7.3, Ford has been stabbing at a motor program now for a while. Cummins and Duramax seem to be runningthe same consistent Motor, with a few compliance enhancements for the tree huggers and that is about it ...Just wondering about the "new and imrpoved"

I went from a 1993 dodge w250 with cummins to the all new 2011 Ford f250 with the new 6.7 in it. I do know this! If any of u test drive one of these. U WILL COME HOME WITH IT! Thats all i got to say about that.