So which will have better fuel economy? The 5.0 or the 6.2? Is the 6.2 really going to get better fuel economy than the current 5.4 in the F-150? If the power numbers are bunch up near the same why would you pick a 6.2 over the 5.0?

@Dave: Great questions. Stay tuned is all I can say for now. This should be very interesting.

If ford can build a 5.0 with 400hp, then shouldn't they be able to make the 6.2 with 475+hp...I'm sure it's more technical than I'll ever know... Nice work ford, glad to see they are putting the Motor back in Ford Motor Company!

Coming out with an engine in 2010 without direct injection is like coming out with an engine in 1988 with a carburetor.

I think the 6.2 will probably have a little more torque then expected right now. All I know for sure is I can't wait till all of Fords new engines come out.

Hmm which engine would you like on your 2011 F-150?
EcoBoost 3.5L V6 with 400Hp/400lb-ft
5.0 DOHC V8 with 400Hp/400lb-ft
6.2L Premium SOHC V8 with 400Hp/400lb-ft

My guess is, if all three engines really did have the same power and torque, the EcoBoost would have the advantage because of the flatter torque curve.

I agree that all three engines should have DI.

I wonder if the high performance version of the 5.0 V8, will be the Bobcat engine? Or just a regular EcoBoost version of the 5.0 V8.

Yep, that confirms my suspicions that the 6.2 will be will over the 400/400 estimates being floated around. Awesome, I hope it is near the V10 power the BOSS is replacing.

Speaking of waiting...when do we get to hear about the towing improvements in the F150 that were hinted about a few weeks ago?

Road Runner?
Looks like Chrysler let that name expire (since 1980).
Or did they?
Remember Ford wanting the Futura name and Pep Boys had it? Remember when Falcon was to be the Chrysler 1960 compact and Ford wanted the name? Chrysler let them have it and they switched to Valiant instead.

Makes no sense to use DI if the engine isn't designed for it from the outset or redesigned for it. Rumor has it that Ford won't use (at least for now) DI in any products outside of Ecoboost engines since the price vs. MPG/performance increase wasn't worth it.

@Paul: "Road Runner" is just a code name for the engine program. That's it.

@Alex: My guess (speculation) is they will all be within 40 horsepower / 40 lbs-ft of torque from 400-hp /400 lbs-ft.

Rumoured here in Australia that Ford Australia's performance devision is working on a turbocharged version of the Coyote and an enlarged (5.7 Litre) version

Yes, the 351 (5.8L) Coyote has been going around thanks to the likes of www.drive.com.au and www.goauto.com.au - They haven't really backed up their claims, just speculated. They love talking about it, as it gets readers, I actually don't believe it. I believe Ford Australia will do regular 5.0L V8 for the Falcon XR8, a G8, G8E, and FPV GS (with higher power). I believe the GT, GT-P, GT-E, GT-H will get a supercharged 5.0L V8. This is my educated guess on Ford Australia with the V8s.

The 6.2L with its 2V SOHC setup and iron block was designed from the get-go as a simple heavy duty engine. Even if it doesn't put out much more HP/TQ than either the ecoboost or the 5.0L, it would still be the gas engine of choice for a truck that is going to have a long hard life. (Think, GM 6.0L vs. 6.2L; one is built for HD applications, the other for maximum power/fun.)

Now, the 5.0L and the 3.5LTT, on the other hand, are the engines for the average "light duty" buyer/weekend warrior type person. Strong enough for the application, but not over built.

With that in mind, it's a pretty smart lineup. For the person who is more traditional and grew up with Ford 302s/5.0s, they will probably go with the coyote V8. For the person that needs a truck, but wants something a bit more technologically advanced than the traditional V8, will go with the 3.5LTT. The 3.5LTT Ecoboost option might cost a bit more up front, but the reward would probably be a bit better mileage, better emissions, and similar power.

That's where the Ecoboost name comes in. Instead of separating their engine lineup into premium and base engines, based on horsepower, like they do now with the 4.6L 2v, 4.6L 3v, 5.4L; Ford will offer consumers the traditional choice in a 5.0L V8 or the more Eco-friendly choice in the 3.5LTT.

If anything, that would end up being a trial run for them. In that, they'll be able to find out whether or not a lot of people will be willing to pay extra for a truck with a slightly more Eco-friendly engine.

@Paul810: Well said.

I agree with Paul... makes perfect sense in my mind. They would need an HD engine and two more "common" engines for the DD or worker how does not need a heavy duty engine. It is a smart move and they still keep the V6 option available, but with much better power and allows for various ranges of people to be happy. Personally, I like my 5.4 in my 04 F-150, but if I were in the market for a new truck to add to the family, I would get the 5.0 for the most likely versatility. Let's just hope there are minimal issues like the lean condition, cam phasers, ect.

Confusing article to say the least. The Ecoboost 3.5 in truck trim was supposed to be 380HP and roughly 380lbs of torque.

The Coyote 5.0 was supposed to be 350HP in truck trim and closer to 400HP in Mustang trim.

The 5.0 is supposed to be the engine placed under the Eco-boosted 3.5 liter engine.

The 6.2 last I heard was 420HP and not available in the F150.

The 5.0 was supposed to be the replacement for the 4.8 liter.

The Eco-boost 3.5 liter replaces the 5.4 liter.

The 6.2 was supposed to replace the 6.8 liter.

I agree with Paul 810

The only thing is why are they testing the 5.0L in the 7 lug HD pkg. Maybe the 6.2L won't be available after all in ref F150 form?

The other thing is when and where are they making their @ 400/400 giv er take?

We need to see tq curves. 5.0L is a 4v higher rpm engine vs 2v 6.2L not.

Which engine do you want if your hooking up your trailer. I'll take 6.2 over 5.0L. If your in the mtns then the Eb would be tempting too.

Again only way to know Mike is if you line up all three empty and very loaded and let em go.

I'm sure the EB will produce better MPG when empty & the turbos are not engaged, but the turbo life expectancy of 150'000m will scare away traditional truck guys.

@Mackintire- There is no 4.8, and the 6.2 is being tested in the F150. Also, the 3.5 that will make it into the truck is a different engine from the 3.5 that is in the MKS, FLEX, and MKT.

How small, or how large is the bore of the 5.0?
Does is split the difference of the 90mm of 4.6/5.4 & 102mm of new 6.2?

So, say 96mm bore with an 86mm stroke
Then 350hp, 350ft-lbs is a good bet.

O.K., let me get this straight: The 'Coyote' V-8 family is completely different than the 'Boss' V-8 family, no parts interchange. However, the 'Coyote' is capable of displacing 5.8L and can make the same power as the 6.2L 'Boss'. The 6.2L 'Boss' is considered a 'heavy duty' engine, but it will not be available in either the F-450 or F-550, which will continue to use the old, inefficient, and expensive to produce 6.8L 3 valve V-10. Then again, the E series vans and commercial chassis vehicles continue to use the 5.4L 2 valve V-8 and 6.8L 2 valve V-10. This makes no sense whatsoever. Coyote, Boss, 3 valve V-10 Triton, 2 valve V-10 Triton, and 2 valve V-8 Triton. 5 different engine familys compared to GM's LS.

I doubt you will see that many different engine combinations for very long. I also doubt Ford will be able to ramp up production of the new engines fast enough to use them in every truck and van application thus the carryover of some of the old engines for a year or two. Remember what happened in 1996? They continued producing the "classic" F150 with its pushrod engines as they phased in the new 1997 F150 with its SOHC engines.
The engine lineup in the Super Duty is a little surprising as well. They are now saying the 6.2L Premium V8 will replace the 5.4L Triton V8 as the base engine. The 6.8L V10 will soldier on and the Ford designed 6.7L turbo diesel V8 will replace the Navistar sourced 6.4L diesel. Early speculation had the 6.2 replacing the V10. I think the new lineup makes a lot of sense.
I have driven motor homes based on the E-Series chassis with the V10 and that engine works very well. Ford has dominated the medium duty chassis cab market with that engine for years and keeping it is a good idea.

BigBob, there is no evidence anywhere of a 5.8L Coyote V8. Just Australian car websites saying it, but they don't even say they heard it from someone at Ford, they just say they "heard it was happening." They probably got that from bloggers speculating on fan websites.
E-series vans would probably change if it got a significant upgrade sometime, but word on that is it will be dropped for the Transit. Which sucks, because the E-Series has power.
I don't know that the V-10 is expensive to produce, I think it costs less than $1000 to upgrade from the 5.4 to the V-10. It's over $7,000 to upgrade to the diesel.
I think the Triton engines will fade away over time. I am thinking 6.7L powerstroke and 5.0L Bobcat or 6.2L EcoBoost for future heavy duty applications?

Mike Levine, Why is the new 6.2 has 2 Spark Plugs per Cylinder? Is it similiar to the Dodge 5.7 Hemi? A VVT type too? Boy that 5.0 Coyote look pretty COOL... Can't wait to test drive one!!! Thanks Mike for Infor...

Powerkid,

Let's say they do offer both the 5.0L and the 6.2L in the F150 (which we know for sure they can, as the F150 Raptor is getting both). In the 5.0L truck, you would probably have the HD package as an option. Just like you do on the current 5.4L truck. After all, the hp/tq will probably be high enough that it can make use of the the Heavy Duty components.

In the 6.2L trucks, however, HD components would probably come standard, simply added into the cost of the engine option package.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the rumors are saying the 6.2L will probably not be available in all F150 models. My guess is only the Raptor, the Platinum, the Harley Davidson, and maybe the King Ranch will get it. With that being the case, increasing the price on those models for both the 6.2L engine and the heavy duty components is a drop in the bucket compared to the initial cost. These are also the trucks that can make full use of that engine, as their supercrew cabs loaded with amenities make for one heavy truck.

As far as torque curves for these engines go, not a lot of info has been released on them yet. Ford is playing it pretty safe with keeping the true numbers secret, as they don't want to be playing second fiddle vs. the competition in 2011.

All we do know, for sure, is that the 6.2L reaches its maximum HP (whatever that is) at 5,500rpms and has a 9.8:1 compression ratio according to Ford.

Big Bob,

Eventually, the 5.4L and 6.8L V10 will go away. Ford just has plenty of those engines around and needs to get rid of them somehow, so they'll stick them in whatever they can.

All the new gas truck engines for a while will basically be based off the 3.5L V6, the 5.0L V8, and the 6.2L V10. This is sort of like how it was at GM back in the 80's; you had an I6, a Small block V8, and a Big Block V8....all with different focuses [fuel economy, cost vs. power, heavy duty performance].

The neat thing about Ford's new engines is that all of them were designed from the start with room to grow and adapt, which was a major problem with the modular family.

Instead of being stuck with what they've got; they can play with displacement, play with valve arrangements (2v/3v/4v), play with cam numbers (2 or 4), play with valve timing, play with injection methods, play with turbos and superchargers.....basically, they've allowed themselves tons of options and have been toying with us lately showing them off.

For example, they've shown version of the 6.2L V8 that are twin-turbo (Ecoboost) and versions that are large displacement (7+L). Does it mean they are ever going to use them? No. It just means, if the market demands it, they could. Cost effective options are rarely a bad thing for an auto manufacturer.

"will basically be based off the 3.5L V6, the 5.0L V8, and the 6.2L V10."

Edit: I meant 6.2L V8.

@Paul810: I know what it's like to switch up the displacements. There are way too many.

@RLM: According to Ford, they use two spark plugs per cylinder because of the large bore to more efficiently combust the fuel/air charge. It's not VVT but something similar: Dual-equal variable cam timing that dynamically changes the timing of both the intake and exhaust valves but it does this using only the single camshaft per cylinder head and two VCT actuators (one per cam). Each cam actuates the intake and exhaust valves on each cylinder bank. When the camshaft is advanced or retarded via the VCT actuator, both the intake and exhaust valve timing is advanced or retarded by an equal amount -- hence the name ‘dual equal.’ There are several benefits to using dual equal VCT, including improved fuel economy, NVH and emissions when idling or highway cruising, and increased torque and power response at full throttle.

RLM, I know you asked Mike, but I know the answer Ford gave. It was to do with the large cylinder bore of the 6.2 V8. I think they said twin spark they got a better coverage for ignition. How that translates in to performance and/or efficiency? I don't know.

Thanks for that info Mike, do you know the reference Mike Rowe makes on the Ford website in the 6.2 V8 video for the SuperDuty, he says "Ford took the 5.4, and made it in to a bigger 6.2L V8." Do you know if there is any truth to this? I was under the impression the blocks were different.

coyote engine will replace at the unique and powerful 302 BOSS, and im totally agree, is necesary give a fight to chevolet, specially at the camaro reborn, with mustang, ford motor company wins good sells but with this power engine will make 30% at least increase about it, only is necesary insure the low band power to star a good launch, think that 4.6 engine is it weakness and debility headache owners. And remember folks, mustang is only the best ever sport car in America.

I think Mackintire had a good point, - that the 5.0 replaces the 4.6 V8 - the pics look to be XLT 4x2s (no front tow hooks), at least one is a supercab. Pretty basic package. This would likely be a 4.6L V8 on today's F150 - base engine is what it is. Could still see EB and 6.2 as an option across the board and standard on higher models.

it about time ford bring back the 302 cid all they need to do is bring back the tried and true 7.1L 429 & 7.5L 460 these engines was the best one ford made HANDS DOWN......

I noticed the Mike Rowe coments too. I think hs just glossing over the big picture. I wouldn't have done it that way. Guys that were unhappy wiht their 5.4ls won't like the sound of that. Besides its not true.

What I'm curious about is: "6.2L gets better mpg in '11 SD w/6 speed than '10 5.4L w/5 speed". Doesn't neccesarily mean anything in the F150 as we already have a 6 speed. Although may be safe to say the 6.2l 6 speed in a F150 would get better mpg than a 04-08 5.4L 4 speed. And with min 100+ more hp and min 35ft/lb tq.

I see 6.2L in Heavy duty pkg (if they produce) in lieu of baby diesel. And possible option in Platinum same as Denali. Lets keep in mind Gm now offers 6.2 (not 6.0) in their max tow pkg. So with Ford insisting on being the "Leader" do they compete with the higher strung 5.0L or do they offer the 6.2L when htey are making it anyway?
So I see it this way:
Raptor/Harley/Platinum/Max Tow: get 6.2L.
Everything else 5.0 and EB They will kick the snot out of the 5.4 regardless so they should be more than sufficient.

I'm surious how much more the 6.2 weighs over the current 5.4L. These trucks can't afford to lose anymore payload.

Which reminds me, Mike hows the 2010 F150 Magic spring dust F150 story coming. Sorry I know you asked us to bear with you 2 weeks ago and obviusly you've been in TX since... ;)

Also Mike, you changed your mind now on Heavy Duty 8,200 GVW SCrew availability?

BTW Mike, Great story!!! For us 'half ton' guys this is better than the SD write ups!

It is really pretty simple.

1) 3.5 EB will replace the 4.6L

2) 5.0L will bump the 5.4L

3) 6.2L will be the top of the line engine for HD F150 and special edition models.

For towing I'd want the 6.2L over the 5.0L. Generally the larger displacement will make more low rpm HP.

I doubt ford will ever put a 500 hp engine in the Harley-Davidson edition F-150. They've gone on record that the raptor is the route their high performance trucks will take and I agree with them. High HP street trucks are silly - for the immature - they can't stop well they can't turn well it's just a fatality waiting to happen. I respect Ford for not pandering to those without a sense of responsible self-control
On the other hand the Raptor an ultra-capable off-road truck ~400 hp makes sense, and will gain a much larger following than the lightning ever did. I don't need one but when my '99 F-150 gets 200k, Raptor here I come!
I once raced a guy in a Dodge RAM HEMI with my 99 intrigue (218hp/230lbs) - I have more than 100 hp less but I easily beat him, why? I am much lighter so quicker and could make the turns.

While it's true some men are unhappy with their 5.4L I also know alot of working class men that search high and low for used F-150s with the 4.6L in them. If you normally pull less that 3,000 lbs and don't mind keeping below 65 that engine will deliver 20-21 mpg in the 4x4 model and save you serious bucks depending on how many miles driven and has since it debuted.
I wish I had gotten a 4.6, though I added headers and a CAT-back and now my 5.4L w/4x4 is seriously fast and will get 18-19 cruising at 75mph on the highway.

I will be one of those opting for the 5.0L (if I don't buy the Raptor) since I'll never tow more than 4000lbs. When gas shoots back up to $4/gallon - and it will, I won't be hurting quite so bad.

Corrected via Blueovalnews insiders.

People, I am not submitting random opinion here.

It is really pretty simple.

1) 5.0L will replace the 4.6L (pretty firm observation based on insider knowledge) Is an inexpensive motor to produce.

2) EB 3.5L will bump the 5.4L (inferred facts via ford press release) EB 3.5 is not an inexpensive motor to produce.

3) 6.2L will be the available for special edition models. (speculation based on statements made by Ford press release) No known statements as to assembly pricing.

For continuous towing I'd want the 6.2L over the EB 3.5L.

The 6.2L is not a bored and stroked 5.4L the bore spacing is different, hence a different block. They could be a related design though.

@ mackintire

I agree. EB will be premium OVER 5.0L. Ford has stated EB costs them @ $700 more to produce over 5.4L. It will cost more than the 5.0L.

Hard to say thtough what repaces 4.6L, I think nothing. How can anyone compare 4.6L to any one of the three. Really. All three of these will/should far exceed performance of the 5.4L

@mackintire, @PowerKid: That's what we said in our original (and first and still very accurate post, I might add) post about the Coyote motor in January. The EB V-6 will be a premium engine: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/01/sources-say-coyote-and-ecoboost-engines-on-horizon-for-f150.html

So, I assume we won't expect a replacement for the 4.2 V6? (3.7 V6)
The 5.0 V8 becomes the base engine for 2011? (replacing the 4.6)
6.2 V8 is the step up (like the 5.4 is) - perhaps Optional on XLT, standard on Lariat upwards.
The EcoBoost V6 is just a new option, and not really a replacement for anything.

I can hear it now.. Some folk are already saying the 5.0 isn't fast enough. 0-60 who's knows? But Tundra is 6.7 0-60 and Dodge Ram Reg. cab is 6.5 I think, not sure. But who's cares I'm kinda glad to see the 5.0 and hopei ts a HomeRun. I still say bring on the F-100 with the Ecoboost V-6 3.5 with a CrewCab Version, it will be Awesome!!!

I will bet the 6.2 L will not be standard on the Lariat and up. It will however be available on anything that has the 5.4 currently.

Ryan,

When Ford brought out the Cammer engine for the mustang, they showed they can make a 5.0L engine that makes 420hp/370ft-lb tq.

Now sure, that's a race specific engine, but it's also based on old designs (2002?). If their new engine design makes anywhere close to that, it will be plenty fast. Fast enough to beat Gm's 6.2L and Toyota's 5.7L? Probably not, but faster then the 3v 4.6L and I wouldn't doubt faster than the 3V 5.4L.

Now, if you want an engine that's designed to compete with Gm's 6.2L, Toyota's 5.7L, ect.......then you have to look into the new 6.2L. Will it beat the competition? Maybe, Maybe not. But it should at least match it.

With that in mind, I know Ford has said the 6.2L is capable of 500hp with little more than a bit of tuning and tweaking, so there's hope that it has a lot going for it.

posted today by mikeputc:

Everyone's got sources. :-)

I'll humbly point out the following

- We said it first back in January that Coyote was on its way for both F-150 and Mustang with 400/400 power figures. So far, those numbers are holding up quite well, considering Ford has said ZERO about the 5.0. We also said it would replace 4.6 and 5.4 and that 3.5 EB would a premium motor above the 5.0.

- We were right on the money more than 18 months ago about the Scorpion 6.7 PSD's engine architecture. We also said it would make more than 390 hp and 720 lb-ft of torque. So far, we're looking good on that too.

- We ran the F-100 first too (plus we had time to get Mark Stehrenberger to do up an illustration for us as a sweet bonus for our readers). And there's more news to come about F-100. That's a topic for a different time. ;-)

- Almost all of our Raptor info was spot on, including the unique FORD grille before that showed up in pics.

- Stay tuned about 4-cyl F-150. That is still definitely in the works.

I'll stick with what our sources say about "Road Runner" until I hear from one of them otherwise.

I'm still hoping that when Ford does release the EB 2.5 for the F100 or F150 that they make it an option for the T6 Ranger replacement.

290HP 290lb 4 cyl with the EB's mesa like torque curve would be a nice engine for the T6 Ranger.

Hmm which forum?

@Mike Levine:

How much is the Ecoboost supposed to cost up front compared to a traditional gas engine (say, the Coyote)? If they both have similar power numbers the fuel economy savings from Ecoboost seems like it would have to be proportional to the up-front cost of the Eco, but I haven't heard anything about that cost. Thanks.

Can't wait to hear the numbers. I'd take the Coyote 5.0 V8 or the 6.2 Boss V8 over the ecoboost. I wonder if the 3.5 ecoboost will be a reliable engine. I hope they 'll built a supercharger for the Coyote, just like they did with the Triton in the lightning. That was a great engine.