Too bad no one's really buying Rams.

i would actually love to buy a new ram since ford is taking so long to release the 6.2 in a regular f150

Whatever you make all this deal for customer.....the bad reality is no one's really buying Ram.Its a bad sales of all three,even with mighty Cummins most people choose Ford like best oberall truck,and its true...or Chevy,a great truck too.

Ram sales are up a little over last,but still not as strong as they should be.But then again,Ford and GM are the fleet sales leaders for trucks.Dodge trucks are the most expensive,again hurting sales to large companies buying tons of trucks per month.

Another thing I have noticed,Ford and GM dealers have more inventory on dealer lots,again if you need a truck now,you cant wait to order a Dodge Ram truck..Just anecdotal from my area.but we are loaded with new Ram's on the road , again anecdotal.

Yes ,it is still a Dodge Ram as Chrysler adds Ram truck sales to Dodge brand total monthly,yearly sales.

Anyways,What a sales gimmick,as I dont know anyone who after 60 days who is going to return a Ram,best trucks around...A Ford or GM,import yeah,after 1 day you wake up at night in a nervous sweat kicking yourself for buying a inferior lower cost ,ugly truck !!!

why didnt chrysler do this before fiat bought them out? 30 cents per mile adds up quickly if you get close to the 4,000 mile limit.

@Dodge,

Relax! Anything you say won't convince others. Truth be told, a good truck sells.

I love the fleet queen argument.

NOT.

It is true that companies will go with the cheepest bid. That is just plain old common sense.
Boo hoo if Dodge can't or won't compete.

The company my brother works for buys hundreds of trucks per year. They used to run Dodges. Now they run Chevs. The main complaint he had with the Dodges is that if you hit a pothole, rut, or mudhole fairly hard - the transmission (automatic) would pop out of gear. Many guys I know that run Dodge work trucks have had the same complaint.

I don't know if Dodge has fixed the problem since the majority of guys I know are currently running Fords or Chevs.

They charge 30 cents a mile upon return.

Probably be cheeper to rent a truck for a month.

Lou,
Go to dodgetalk.com, it has some 3 million members. They have a whole section about drivetrain talk. I have yet to read anything about a trans popping out of gear when hitting a bump. Not to mention I have a Ram, and it has never happened.

As for the return policy, it isn't a good deal at all, but I a long time ago that they should have done this for the Ram as soon as it came out.

EDIT (Damn, no edit button)

I thought a long time ago, they should have done this for the Ram when it first came out.

@What???,you are wrong!,dodgetalk.com has 165,546 members,not 3 million,they have over 3,688,320 posts.
Before post a comment just read all you type.
Good day!

dodge did this when the new caravan came out a year or two back and the percentage of people who returned the van was very low. and most of the people that returned them got another van but with different options. it worked in the past so its not surprising that they would try it again.

@ super duty

The point is still the same, even though my numbers were screwed up.

The 165,000 members (which I've been an active member of since 2008), and I have yet to see a trans which popped out of gear.

The 165,000 is a lot more then Lou's, Brother's, Cousin's, Friend's, former company.

@what??? I was with my brother travelling down a gravel road and hit a bad hole. His truck was a 3/4 ton extended cab Dodge 4x4. It went into neutral. He said it happened all the time. I have a few friends who are game wardens - they had the same complaint. I know of other guys who had the same complaint. They may of fixed the problem. These guys use their trucks harder than the majority of people. My brother's company keeps their trucks for 50 - 60,000 miles because the trucks are beat to death. Do you drive 30 - 40,000 miles a year predominantly on gravel roads?

If it makes you feel better - he's had his share of problems with Fords and Chev's. He bent the frame on an F150 (got stuck on a road building job and was pulled out by a grader) He recently had a Chev 3/4 ton were the fender almost fell off because all the mounting tabs were cracked due to vibration.

I don't blame you for doubting. I would of said BS too, if I hadn't seen it for myself.

Relax! Anything you say won't convince others. Truth be told, a good truck sells.
Posted by: Frank

----------

A good truck sells. You destroyed Dodge's rant in 4 words. Bravo.

Relax! Anything you say won't convince others. Truth be told, a good truck sells.
Posted by: Frank

----------

A good truck sells. You destroyed Dodge's rant in 4 words. Bravo.
Posted by: Dave

----------
A good truck doesn't get hoarded around by fleets because of low, low, price.
Plus, it was more like 14 words. 14 false words.

Dodge makes the best looking truck hands down but I know to many people who has had to many problems with them, almost always with the rear or the transmission... as far as Cummins being the top diesel, well it is a damn good motor. I prefer Cummins in my class 8 trucks that I drive but the HD Dodge, err I mean Ram, just doesn't seem to hold up to good and the truck from an engineering standpoint can't hold a flame to a Chevy or a Ford. The Dmax is bulletproof and the new Powerstroke seems to be living up to the hype... which means even more bad news for Ram.

Its funny how much bashing goes on here. As if you guys were being paid to defend your rigs. I'd also like to know where the gear indicator was when Lou's friends truck popped out of gear. Most likely driver error not a trans problem. i.e. fat knee hitting lever.

People talk about some of the Ford models have too much chrome. The Ram has way too much chrome. I am starting to like the F-150 more and more each day. This return policy nothing more than a gimmick to try and get customers in the door. I think Ford is on top of their game right now and don't a return gimmick. If you test drive a truck, then that is all you need. I am also looking forward to the Heavy Duty shootout which I hear is underway as we speak.

@mr.p - The truck was in high gear, and even though my brother is 6"2' his knees were no way near the shifter. He actually liked driving Dodge trucks. I don't think it was a tranny problem but a linkage problem or a problem with the column shifter.

I just bought a new 2010 Dodge Ram this past Saturday and I really like it. I saw several others buying trucks that day, too, so I guess some of us out here are supporting Dodge. Personally, I love the design and features of the Dodge better than the other brands - and I seriously considered another Chevrolet (the brand I traded in on my Dodge). But I opted for the Mopar, since the quality on my Silverado was not up to par. I hope Dodge can pull out of its sales slump so more of these great trucks can get on the road.

"Truth be told, a good truck sells."

So when the new F-150 came out in '09, it was a good truck right away because it outsold Chevy and Dodge? Same for any other brand. How can this be? Sales numbers are not indicative of how good a product is. Sales numbers only reflect preference for and/or perception of a product. Preference can be anything from style to price. More people buy Fords because they perceive them as a better "work" truck. Dumbest thing I've ever heard. What can a Ford do that Dodge and Chevy can't?

I don't know where everybody is getting this wild idea that Dodges cost more. I've looked at sticker price on all 3 brands, and they're all neck and neck. A King Ranch Super Duty with a diesel is $60K!!!! All three brands are selling for stupid money.

@Mmkay,

mmmmkay!

@Dustin,

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

Mike,
2010 Ram is being recalled again.

@Dustin - I don't know where everybody is getting this wild idea that Dodges cost more.

Something the fanboi's made up to rationalize poor sales!

I agree with Dustin and Lou. The prices seem very comparable to me. The Ram 1500 needs a 6.5' bed option, 6+ speed auto. The Heavy Duty needs to get rid of the 6 cyl diesel, and go for a V8 that comes close to the performance of the Ford and Chevy diesels, as well as fuel economy.
You drive a 2011 Ford and a 2010 Cummins on the same day, the Cummins feels underpowered in the mid to upper rev range. I am not giving it underserved crap, that was just my driving impression. The Cummins is great on take off, but needs more revving power (even for a diesel) and better mpgs.

Frank just wasn't talking about the 2009 when he says a good truck sells. You would have a point about the sales if the F-150 never sold well and automatically starting sell in 2010. The F-150 is the most successful vehicle in the history of automobiles.

The other point is when the all new 04 F150 came out, it set the standard for the light duty pickup truck. The 09 F-150 wasn't all new but was a significant upgrade of the 04. Therefore there is no reason to believe it wasn't a good truck. Plus it was shown to be a good truck in the many reviews and awards it has won. Many of the fanboys of the other models like to claim all trucks are the same and there are no differences. But Mike said it best in this first drive review of the 2009 F-150, "Tough times call for a tough pickup -- one that’s built to last a decade or more as a work truck, not an image hauler, and strong enough to stand up equally to or beat the competition. That’s what Ford appears to have delivered in the new 2009 Ford F-150."

@ alex Why should Ram go with a different engine? The cummins is tried and true. Why would they just turn thier back on one of the best diesel engines ever built? What makes the PS or D max better than the cummins? Perhaps you missed reading the Motor trend article that was featured on this website that tested the new Ford and Ram trucks. acceleration and fuel mileage were nearly the same. How can the Ram be under powered when it accelerates as well as the Ford? 10 years ago these trucks made 220-250 hp. I have never heard anyone say that they were underpowered. We have several customers at the dealership I work at that tow over 20k lbs. Well over the max and they never complain about lack of power. Diesels are about torque not revs. If you like the Ford better then get one but you are making some flawed comments and strange suggestions for what Ram should do. Also Chrysler has 8 spd trannies coming soon.

I'd rather keep the truck than deal with the hassle of "returning" it. Sounds like an expensive mistake to make to me, you don't get your trade-in back either! Ew! I'd man up and keep the "ram" truck.

@Jordan,
I am considering a diesel for my next pickup, so I have driven them both. There's a lot of things I like about the Ram, don't get me wrong. I can't speak for Motortrend, and I saw that too, but it wasn't what I observed. I averaged about 19.5mpg in the Ford, and in the Dodge it was closer to 15mpg. Going by the readouts of course. Since it's all I had to go by. I know where diesels shine and how it's all about low-end torque, but Ford had that just as much as the Cummins. The Ford offered more revving power, it accelerated harder whereas the Dodge felt breathless. It's a comparison. I'm not calling the Dodge gutless in its own right. But when people look at buying they consider the alternatives, unless they are brand biased. I wouldn't care about the power deficit if there was a fuel economy advantage to the Dodge. But there wasn't. It really doesn't accelerate as well as the Ford does. it is noticeable. If you're pulling a heavy trailer up the interstate, and you get to an incline, you want to maintain speed or even increase it, the upper revving power and torque is needed. Low end is great for launching off the line, but the truck is in 1st gear, it's not that difficult, and the Ford can match the Cummins there. I'm aware of the 8 speeds coming too. It makes a difference in overtaking when not carrying a load also. I just thought the Ford engine offered better all around drivability.

Look, you may disagree with me. Dodge may disagree with me also. But I am just offering my suggestion as to how Dodge could improve the truck. They can continue to defend it the way it is and enjoy the low volume sales if they want.

There are Dodge fans that say they love the I-6, but really thats because they are fans, and thats what the Dodge has. Whatever the Dodge had at the time would be the best thing ever to those people.

Also, it is silly to compare new trucks with what was accepted 10 years ago. This isn't 10 years ago!

@ alex Fair enough. But instrumented testing is more acurate than what you can feel from the driver seat. And the tests say that the difference is negligable. Many things can make a vehicle "feel" better or worse than another vehicle. Things like engine noise (how loud the engine is, how smooth it is, road noise, and all the other sensations felt while driving, including personal preference and bias from opions etc). Also the Ford mileage will be offset by the cost of the urea. I spoke to an owner of an 2011 SD recently and asked him about the urea. He told me that he tops the tank up at every fuel fill and typicaly has to put about $20 dollars worth in. Keep in mind that he never said how much he had to put in in litres just what the cost of the top up was. Also I live in central Alberta and the cost of a litre of urea will be different depending on where you are but that adds up quick.
I don't want this to get ugly but the only real disagreement I have with your comments are that Ram should go away from the I-6. It is a phenomenal engine capable of over a million kms if maintained properly. It may not have the sound of a V8 but it is different and unique. You claim that Dodge fans like it because thats what Ram currently uses but that is true for all the HD's. There is a lot in a name. Thats why ford kept the PS name. Thats why they call there HDs Super Dutys. Gms Duramax is similar with the marketing behind the name. Sounds tough. I see plenty of cummins swapped into Fords and GM's. But I never heard of a PS or D-max being swapped into a Dodge. Just some food fot thought. I always thought you were a Ford guy. It surprises me that you drove the Ram. No Gm test drive or are you waiting for them to get on the lots?

@ Alex.

You really have no idea a diesels so really please keep your opinions to your self.

Facts are the Cummins is the most reliable diesel engine ever made for pickups. It is largely unchanged since the 80s. Why, because it is simple. I6s have 40% less moving parts then V8s.

As for the 6.7 liter ISB Cummins diesel is a Medium Duty diesel engine which is easily capable of 800+ ft lbs. It can hold full engine power all day loaded with 40,000+ lbs.

The other two motors are light duty, and would have meltdowns with in a couple hours, trying to keep up with the ISB Cummins.

It is the truck (mostly the trans) holding the motor back, not the motor holding the truck back. It would be the dumbest move ever if Dodge switched to a V8 Cummins diesel.

It's funny, in real world testing, how much closer the more powerful engines actually are, when compared to the lowly Cummins.

Jordan, I am interested to see how the GMs go too, but I will probably wait till I am more definitely ready, you know how it is with this economy, I still lack confidence in throwing that much money in to something like that, though I really want to, and to be honest I would be dang happy with any of them! I realize my test was no scientific and looking forward to Mikes review. I think the Dodge has the nicest exterior, and overall the Ford and Dodge have the nicest cabs.

@toidi, sorry but I can't take seriously anyone who writes "You really have no idea a diesels." You should get a fuel cell, they have one moving part!

Dodge Sucks, the powerstorke is just as good as the cummins, a cummins in a ford would be a much better buy. also dodges look terrible fords and chevys are much better, but the GM Duramax sucks, and so does the allision tranny.

That's the only argument you can put against me, a typo. Wow, that is convincing.

@Nick, got any facts to back those statements up?

@toidl, if it makes you feel any better it wasn't just about the typo. I said this before "There are Dodge fans that say they love the I-6, but really thats because they are fans, and thats what the Dodge has. Whatever the Dodge had at the time would be the best thing ever to those people." You came back with a typical response about the 40% less moving parts. It may or may not be true, but that's not really what it's about is it? Does any unbiased person walk in to a dealership asking about how many moving parts it has? Come on, seriously! It's just a statistic you use to defend what you like isn't it? It would be like GM fans saying "we have 7 more horse power!" Or "I prefer the asymmetrically mounted rear shocks." It's just useless blabber to try to win the case at the dinner table! Let's be honest here, if Dodge had a Cummins 8L V10 diesel with 500HP/1000lb-ft, instead of the I-6, and it absolutely blew away the Ford and Chevy diesels, you would still want it yeah? I did say be totally honest! Or would you switch your preference to Ford or Chevy? You could buy an EV and have one moving part! But like I said, you wouldn't because that's not what it's about!
Just say your preference is still towards Dodge, and you like how the Cummins performs, acknowledge the Ford and Chevy may have more power, but say that doesn't bother you, you still like the Dodge better, I will take you far more seriously than this 40% less moving parts crap.

you know from a mechanics standpoint, the I-6 is truly the better motor. I dont really understand why the durmax is being called a being a light duty engine, because the engine was used in GMs class 4-7 trucks, i know i've worked on em. Saying that I will say that the trucks sucked to do motor work on, the whole front clip has to come off if you have anything major to do, its just a pain. I dont know much of whats differnt about the silverado dmax and the medium duty dmax but im assuming its just in the computer, as ive never seen the internals of the pickup version. To be honest im starting to fall away from this website, and its not the articles or antything like that, but every discussion seems to go into a bash fest, and not just bashing trucks, but people directly. I know people get denfensive about what they own and like but some of this stuff is just ridiculous.

Everyone knows RAM trucks are the best.

Yes, the sales really reflect that too :)

Alex, Do you own Or Drive a Diesel Truck???

Yep, you are right Alex. Hell, this whole time I thought I liked Cummins because it was more reliable while giving similar performance numbers. It just turns out the only reason why I like Cummins is because I like Mopar too. Thanks for explaining that for me.

The FACTS I posted above show why the Cummins doesn't need to develop a new engine, when the ISB can handle much more power then it is currently rated at, all the while doing it more reliably then the competition.

I currently own an 05 Dodge Ram Hemi powered truck. It has served me well the last 80K miles, great truck. Lately I've been thinking about better towing capability, not to the point of pulling a monstrous 5th wheel, but perhaps a lite weight one or a lite weight trailer. Hence the gas or diesel question. I first thought diesel, but now I'm thinking a 2010 Hemi 3/4 ton instead because I can pick up one of those for a heck of a lot cheaper than a diesel. At a recent visit to a Dodge dealer, I didn't find one diesel with an MSRP for less than $48K, the remainder were $50K plus. Man, who buys these things? We are not having an economic downturn, the local Indian casino is allways packed and people are still buying high dollar trucks. Anyway, I know when I bought my 1500 truck the deals were hot and for that category truck they still are. Back in 05 I bought my Dodge Ram SLT Hemi for $21,500, the MSRP was $32,212+-. This was a typical discount back then and it continued that way in the years following. I checked with my dealer recently and they admitted I could still land a deal like that or close to it even today, five years later. However, not the case with a the diesel, the old supply and demand dictates the pricing there and the upcharge for the diesel alone is high. The dealer did say I could likely pick up a 2010 diesel for somewhere in the mid $30s, I'm guessing $35-$36K. At the time I wasn't considering the 2500 Hemi, but I can imagine getting a nice 2500 hemi 4x2 for around $25-$26K. With the improved power, fuel economy and increased load and pulling stats, I think the 2500 Hemi might be the way to go for my needs. Furthermore, during the same week I checked out a new 5th wheel rig considered a lite weight model since it tips the scale at around 6,000 lbs. It was 27' long with all the stuff like the heavier counterparts except the wife didn't like the fact it didn't have a hanging clothes closet. I heard somewhere and have to verify the 2500 Dodge hemi truck can pull up to 11,000 lbs for 2010, so this combo might be the way to go for me instead of the diesel. What I'm saying is a montary savings of about $10 grand, $10 grand I don't have right now because I don't want to finance it since I just retired. Its not the kind of truck that will get a lot of usage, I'm no full timer and will pull either a trailer or lite 5th wheel or my 7'x14' Interstate enclosed trailer. The latter for taking one of my motorcycles to the race track, thats all, about 15K-18K miles a year. So why go over the top and get a diesel when my qualifications don't really require it. Some would argue to the contrary, but I'm just throwing that out there for discussion. I've heard all the arguements about a diesel lasting forever, bla bla bla, but I don't keep vehicles forever, give me 5 to 7 years max.

Alex, Who is the one with no clue about diesels?

The Cummins is in no way mostly unchanged since the 80's. The current version is almost 1 liter larger in displacement. Add in emissions and injector changes and so on.

Even the Cummins is not running the same performance numbers in it's commercial applications.

The medium duty stuff is about time till rebuild. Side by side none of these engines will "melt down" if used in the same manner and properly maintained for their predicted life expectancy.

Cummins make a nice diesel. How about you leave it at that?

@RLM, if you had to ask me that you were not reading my posts.
@Keith, I think you were meant to direct your post toidl.
He made those claims. He also wants facts from everyone, yet he can make claims about meltdowns from other engines with nothing to back that up

As for the guy who said that the Cummins is largely unchanged, he is half right and mostly wrong. Between 1984, when it was introduced, till 2007, it had the same stroke and bore. Even if the rest of the engine changed, that is quite impressive. Even when the engine was upped in displacement to 6.7 liters in 2007 about 40% of the engine parts were carryover from the 5.9.

The claim about less moving parts is obviously correct. It has less valves, less springs, less pistons, just to name a few things. 40% seems a little high, I see it being closer to 30%.

The Cummins is the best engine. It is, literally, in a different class. While the competition uses there engines in busses, RVs and pickups. The Cummins is also used in Military Equipment, Construction Equipment, Agricultural Equipment, and Marine Equipment. A Powerstroke or D-max isn't going to last long in a tractor.

Alex, I did read your post and I totally disagree some of your statement. Why we need a v8 cummin? The I6 cummins is great and its does have less stuff than the Ford PS n DM... Who care who take off the line fast its the pullin power and a work Horse..LOL If you read Diesel power magazine Dodge Cummins I6 pull those sledge further than those V8 Ford or Chevy, and funny thing ford put those I6 in there truck too,but sometimes you see other wins too. You're a funny guy cause I see you on almost all the post comment about anything, you like to stir thing up... LOL No hard feelin!!! Happy Trail...

RLM, my point wasn't to stir (ok, you're right sometimes it is :), I admit) but it wasn't this time. I was really giving my honest feedback. Yes, the Cummins I-6 is a workhorse, but if you're not towing ALL the time, you want some fun too, right? Well I do, speaking for myself, that's why I would get one of the V8s. But like Jordan said, I think everyone should drive all three of them to really get an idea for what suits them! I'm not saying people are wrong to like the Cummins, I just said why I would get the V8, and maybe that could be holding sales back a little in general.

StenSpel - One problem with your application theory. The V8 diesels like the DMax and the Powerstroke were not designed for use in tanks and contruction equipment. Why on earth would they be used there? FWIW the likely only thing the Cummins in pick up use has in common with with the other applications you mention is the number of cylinders. Your broad brush is like people saying the Allison tranny in the GM trucks is the same as the one in the M1 tank.

@ john - I agree with you. A diesel p/u is great if you plan on keeping it for a long time or will be pulling or carrying heavy loads for a long period of time.

Most of the large fleets used in heavy industry in my neighborhood are gassers.
Why?
The trucks don't last longer than 3 - 5 years. A diesel engine will still be running but the body and chassis will be beat to death.
I've seen diesel ambulances have incredible lifespans, especially inter-hospital transfer fleets. In high mileage applications were the cab and chassis aren't abused too badly - diesel is the way to go.

I see many guys in my neighborhood with diesel pickups and I rarely see them pull or carry anything. There is no cost recovery for those guys and I bet they don't even look at that aspect.

When diesel was cheeper than gas, and diesels had a huge fuel economy advantage - payback was roughly 100,000 miles. You might do better than that based on application or residual value.

You are on the right track with your truck choice.

i am so glad this internet thing works and your article really helped me.

Does anyone know if Chrysler / Ram is still doing this or how to initiate it? Thank you