Sources: Ford's 6.7-L V-8 Power Stroke Diesel Could Make 800 Pounds-Feet of Torque

Ford-gorilla-560

The envelope for diesel power in heavy-duty pickup trucks continues to expand. In 2005, Dodge and Cummins broke the 600 pounds-feet of torque barrier. Earlier this year, 700 pounds-feet was shattered by both Ford and General Motors. Now, sources say 800 pounds-feet could fall before the end of 2010.

The 2011 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra HD pickups are the current kings of the hill with their 397 horsepower and 765 pounds-feet of torque 6.6-liter 'LML' Duramax V-8 engines. But as we first reported in March, Ford is said to be working on a major power boost for the all-new 390 horsepower, 735 pounds-feet 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 diesel.

According to new details we've received from our sources, a high output version of the 6.7 is expected to produce approximately 400 horsepower and at least 800 pounds-feet of torque, when production of Job 2 2011 Super Duty pickups starts later this year.

We're told that a big reason why Ford can squeeze more power out of the 6.7 is because of its all-new six-speed automatic transmission and tough new compacted graphite iron engine block. CGI is stronger than conventional gray iron, which the Duramax V-8 continues to use for its block. Our source says both were over-engineered from the start to go much higher than the 6.7's current 735 pounds-feet of torque.

Will early adopters of Ford's 2011 Super Duty be able to upgrade to the new power figures after the expected change? It's unclear. Our sources say there may be a few hardware changes in addition to a software upgrade for the engine control unit.

Comments

@RR, I believe it would cruise on flat road at 60mph, and it would be able to tow it up a steep hill. I just don't see it pulling the big Cedar Creek up the hill at 60mph with enough oomph to spare. Of course if you're not towing regularly, this probably doesn't matter.

Ford is only considering this for one reason... speed. The 2010 F450 pickup used the same 19.5 footwear as the F450 chassis-cab, but for 2011, the F450 pickup went to 17s. Why? Because Ford couldn't obtain speed-rated 19.5s! Their customers convinced Ford that they absolutely NEEDED to pull a 20,000+ pound trailer up Rocky Mountain passes at 80 mph... so Ford obliged.

Pretty soon, someone is going to get into one hellacious accident with a 2011 Super Duty, and the ambulance-chaser will sue Ford for negligence because the owner pulled something way too big, was going way too fast, and lost complete control on a downhill... but Ford's specs clearly state the truck "was capable of the operating conditions at the time of the accident".

All the power war has done is encourage people with class 3 and 4 pickups to pull something the size and weight of the local 7-Eleven down the highway at top speed. Then they complain about the horrible mileage and how fast the wear parts die. These people should be driving true-medium class 5 and 6 rigs that will not only do the job with capacity to spare, but live to tell about it 5 years from now.

Alcospel they both worked on the 5.9 in fact IVECO was building 5.9 blocks at one for Cummins. Their parting was pretty acrimonious . Fiat is playing it cool by NOT putting their deisels in Chrysler products as forecast by others
.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2008/07/18/afx5229498.html
"While that target was certainly met--the EEA-developed platforms were the basis for Cummins Tier 3 B series engines, Case-branded CDC-built derivatives and Iveco's NEF diesels,
"http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FZX/is_9_74/ai_n29474714/
"The first writing on the wall may have come as early as 1999, when New Holland N.V., owned by Fiat, purchased Case Corp. as part of its foundation of CNH Global. Then in mid-2005, Iveco's engine and powertrain activities were merged into Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT), which more aggressively began pursuing growth in engine sales. That put Cummins and FPT in competition for much of the same business--hardly an ideal situation for alliance partners."

Alcospel@
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummins_B_Series_engine
The 6.7L base engine design proposal was lead by Jerl Purcell and his team out of the Darlington, England Cummins facility. Jerl was instrumental in the development of the rear gear train ISB engine that resulted from the European Engine Alliance and is considered the Father of this engine layout. The 6.7L ISB engine was launched in the European EURO4 application and the Tier III off high-way application before being released in the Dodge Truck and US EPA medium duty automotive applications in January 2007."

2012 Cummins will be running over 400 hp and 800 ft torque. The bonus is it will be in front of an 8 speed automatic. Of course then GM will come out with their answer to the monster torque of the Cummins. Dealer in town has 2 2011 Powerstroke 6.7L stripped down due to piston melting. I think ford better get things figured out before adding more power. Once they get it right(if ever) then they will be back in the reliable diesel pick-up category

Roadtrip@ Could not agree more.

in the age ov technilogically advanced everything im pretty sure most ov the posters here have camera phones..with that being said.. When u say i was around jo smo mechanic n i saw a torn down 2011 diesel engine with melted this n smashed.. Take a pic.. Otherwise it sounds like accusations & hearsay..

@Alcospel

its 1000 nm or just under 740 ft lb, its a car trans, not one that a truck will be getting

" I would like to further explain my post.

ZF 8 speed, the contract has been signed. Chrysler will be building them. They are capable of 1000+ Nm of torque."


I hate to burst your bubble, but 1000nm of torque is 738 ft-lbs. Nothing exciting about that, since Ford and GM are already past there.

"I hate to burst your bubble, but 1000nm of torque is 738 ft-lbs. Nothing exciting about that, since Ford and GM are already past there."

Owned.

And the 2013 revised Ram is 3 model years away which is an eternity in the truck business.

8 speed tranny when built for the 6.7 Cummins will be rated at 900 ft/lb. 700 ft/lb for the Mini Cummins.

@ tj
If you watched the video it also states it can be used for "trucks" and diesels. What a novel idea.

@C
That is why I put a "+" behind it, like it has in the video. 1000+ Nm.

@ Old Spice.
Chrysler 5 year plan has stated that the refresh will be 2012, 2 years away. It's simple math.

Owned.

I test drove a 2011 F250 w/the 6.7 last week and let me tell you this thing had some balls. The sales person wanted me to trade my 02 F350 w/the 7.3 in but I had to just laugh in his face. I couldn't get past the 61K sticker shock.

Hey Mike, does the new 6.7 still go into regen mode with the DEF added to the system?

Rob,
Yes, all the trucks still go into Regen mode. The DEF system has nothing to do with the DPF. The DEF is used in the SCR brick to reduce NOx. The DPF is still used to filter soot, and still needs to be cleaned periodically.

And of course when this 2012 ram comes out if it does have these power rateings snowman claims will still be outsold by ford 6 to 1 lol When the new rules for mpg hit the truck world dodge or ram will be caught with there pants down ! They have a under power v6 that is very out classed comeing out all they can offer is a 450 plus hp 6.4 L comeing out soon that will make 12 mpg nobody will be buying this when gas hits 5 bucks a gallon!! Ford is on the right path it will be all about MPG soon and there new engines prove that!!

The Ram refresh is 2012 calendar year. Model year will be 2013. So that is 3 model years from now. Owned.


@Bobby, the Ford only has a total cylinder displacement increase of 52cc over the Duramax. 6599cc on the Duramax, and 6651cc on the Powerstroke. So even if you were assuming the Powerstroke is 0.1L bigger, it is not. It has half that! Very insignificant.

It is just amazing how the some have to continue to post about what is allegedly coming 2, 3, 4 years down the road to compete, when Ford and GM are competing right now. Try to stay on topic. This isn't about the 2014 Ram.

Old Spice. 2011 are coming in about a month, still 2 model years away.

@ Bill
Spoken like a person who blindly follows one company. Chrysler has 3 technologies coming that will improve FE about 25% in the next two years.

1) 8 speed auto.
2) Direct injection.
3) MultiAir.

But you forgot that the 6.7 Cummins only needed to be significantly changed once in the last 7 years. How many times has the Powerstoke and the D-max been redesigned in that time? 2 or 3 each? Now how much money has Cummins save while the others were spending huge money to keep up with Cummins?

Two years ago all the PS and D-max guys were saying the same thing about how their engine was going to keep up with the Cummins. Largely, the Cummins is still competitive with the other two, even with the lower power numbers (especially from a price stand point). Let them dream for a bit.

It's still 3 models years if the 2011 Rams are out yet and Ram is living on taxypayer money right now so no telling what the future holds. What matters is what is happening now. Ram is 2-3 years behind GM and Ford as usual.

2-3 years ago who was behind?

2-3 years ago, they all seemed to have similar power figures, with GM ahead by 10HP and 10lb-ft I think. An advantage only noted at the dinner table. The 3 have been able to keep up with each other most of the time.

I would kill to have a Ford with a Detroit Diesel in it. I love the Cummins in my 18 wheelers to, but CAT motors blow big time. Worse fuel economy EVER. Glad they are done. In a 18 wheeler you could get above 7mpg easy with a DD or Cummins but with a CAT you would be lucky to get 5mpg. Oh and they tended to smoke more, not what the DOT man wants to see.

@Shawn,

That is why you see them in Tractors only.

"P,
Go back to the rock you crawled out from under. We know why you were banned from Blue Oval."

So do I...if you have a differing point of view from the mods, they target you, allow people to break the TOS, silence you, then ban you.

However, if you share their severely warped view of Ford, then you can stay.

But what does that have to do with Ford's limp-wristed 6.7 mediocre diesel?

"Whatever Ford gets it will without Obama's name on it "

Well...only if you ignore the $5.9 BILLION of government money they took...from Bam-Bam

So a loan and a bailout are the same to some people. Gosh, I hope you all don't have to deal with your mortgage/bailouts. And car-loan/bailouts. And everytime Visa bails you out at the store....

@Bobby - all you ever do is whine about anti-GM posts or go on about GM being better than Ford.
What do you drive?
1974 Chevette minus back hatch does not equal Silverado!

Looks like Ford got nervous with GM releasing the 2011 LML Duramax haha.

And when all them Mexican-Made 6.7s blow, that 800lbs ft of torque will be worthless! Ford can keep their 6.7 Diesel, 800lbs ft torque or not. I'll stick to the better U.S made, not over-torqued Duramax.

William wrote "Looks like Ford got nervous with GM releasing the 2011 LML Duramax haha."

The Duramax engine is overrated becuase it has only a greyiron block. Ford has the new generation CGI and can upgrade safely.

I like how when the Ford has 735lb-ft and the Chevy has 765, the Ford is just gutless, and Chevy wins. Now Ford has more power and torque, it's going to be overworked and overstressed. Oh please, seriously. None of these engines are even close to being stressed.

@ WP The duramax is over rated becasue it has a grey iron block, eh?
http://www.bankspower.com/videos/show/7-diesel-dragster-duramax-engine
What do you think the engine in this truck is composed of? Google Dodge Ram diesel dragsters or Ford diesel dragsters and I think you will fine that maybe grey iron is a little tougher than you think.

The Duramax engine block uses a heavily-alloyed form of grey iron, which gives it additional strength over conventional grey iron.

Ford Released a Bulletin to its dealers yesterday.
The upgrade is coming on all new trucks with build date starting Aug 5th, Previous buyers will Also get this PCM&TCM Update Free Of Charge Starting Aug 31.

Wow when is this power war going to end? Whats the limiting factor here? Pretty soon when its time to downgrade from these trucks we will have to drive Peterbilts and Kenworths!

This is amazing. But I can't help but wonder. When will it end? I mean 20 years ago. Here look at these numbers,

1991 Ford 7.3L (Non Turbo) IDI

215hp
425lb/ft

Now lets look at this new truck

2011.5 Ford 6.7L (Version 2.0) Turbo Diesel

400hp
800lb/ft

Now trailers, boats, campers, Things of that nature that people use their 3/4 and 1-ton trucks to pull haven't gotten any heavier in the past 20 years. Yet Trucks today are making double the power they did then. Quite literally actually.

215+215 = 430

425+425 = 850.

So two IDI 7.3L's (combined power is) 430hp and 850lb/ft

And one modern day 6.7L makes 400hp and 800lb/ft

My point being is that The weight we pull hasn't grown any, We managed to pull it 20 years ago with half the power. And now we have twice that.

But don't get me wrong eaither, I am very excited to see such a fierce power war going on. And if it can be done and get better fuel mileage as well then its a win win and far as I am concerned.

This is amazing. But I can't help but wonder. When will it end? I mean 20 years ago. Here look at these numbers,

1991 Ford 7.3L (Non Turbo) IDI

215hp
425lb/ft

Now lets look at this new truck

2011.5 Ford 6.7L (Version 2.0) Turbo Diesel

400hp
800lb/ft

Now trailers, boats, campers, Things of that nature that people use their 3/4 and 1-ton trucks to pull haven't gotten any heavier in the past 20 years. Yet Trucks today are making double the power they did then. Quite literally actually.

215+215 = 430

425+425 = 850.

So two IDI 7.3L's (combined power is) 430hp and 850lb/ft

And one modern day 6.7L makes 400hp and 800lb/ft

My point being is that The weight we pull hasn't grown any, We managed to pull it 20 years ago with half the power. And now we have twice that.

But don't get me wrong eaither, I am very excited to see such a fierce power war going on. And if it can be done and get better fuel mileage as well then its a win win and far as I am concerned.

You mean that Government Motors and Chrysler will manufacture these diesels IF they're still in business, right? FORD is the only American vehicle we'll purchase. Built Ford Tough, without taxpayer dollars.

I spend 6mos a year traveling with a F-450, 2008 with the 6.4l - it's funny because some of you seem really worried about which truck is "the best".

This summer from Austin, to Canada, then west to the coast, south on the 101 (note: it would be safer to tow with a Yugo than any big truck on the 101) and down to Calif back to Lake Tahoe across the desert to Utah and then a complete tour of the Mountains in Colorado. In October will hit a good part of Mexico and then back to Austin.

Carrying a Lance 992 that gets close to 4000lb when loaded and hauling a 28ft Pace American with a 1984 Landcruiser inside, combined with tools/generator about 9500lbs.

What I didn't find was anyone in a Chevy or Dodge who cared about which truck we were in, but who did care about a "sound" ride (no weaving, no bouncing, no bobbing) and "leveling the road" (meaning able to keep speed on grades not necessarily on mountain passes).

Everyone I met, trying to move over 15,000 lbs expressed the same idea - wouldn't it be nice to see the auto guys (Ford-Dodge-Chevy) get their light duty trucks into the 400hp and 800-1000 ft/lb of torque range. It might seem overkill but when you're in the mountains of northern Calif trying to get out of Shasta and head towards Tahoe and you see (Ford-Dodge-Chevy) owners pulled over on the passes when it's 94 degrees because they wanted to let their rig cool down from the climb - it will help you to understand why they'd like the "overkill".

And no one was speeding. The option is of course the International Durastar (even with a MaxForce 9 it's just getting 330hp with 1100 ft/lbs) and the Freightliner M2-106 (down to two Cummins engines the ISC and the ISB) and it's getting 350 hp tops with 1000 ft/lb). These are on rigs riding on 22.5 shoes and carrying their own load going into the game along with a new price approaching 100k.

I just got a quote on the 2011 F-450 King Ranch at $58k from two Austin, Tx dealers so it's not surprising that a lot of us would like to see the auto guys get up over 800 ft/lb and then fix the rear suspension with a Link or Kelderman and avoid the MDT (Freightliner/International).

Hope that this adds to the original discussion and addresses some of the posts that I think may be missing the point - why we want/need the torque numbers to move up - we're not going to the grocery store!

Thanks,

Recieved update notice in mail friday, which told me to bring my 6.7 in to have the 400hp and 800f/lbs of torque upgrade. Was told to allow half a day for some computer changes and such... : )

A very good fix for dip stick smoke is to go to a big truck repair shop and get the protective cap that fits on an air bag oir infeed fitting and cut of the tip at the small end were it's sealed and then put the small end over the dip stick tube and replace the dip stick, problem solved nice and simple
these caps are used only as a shipping cap but they are made of very good material and work great at keeping engine oil smell out of the cab
theoldbear

ford gm it does not matter if you look at makes the engine run the fuel system and what makes the power in a engine the heads. the two engines at the same same injectors the same cps pumps. both use four valve heads the engine basicly are the same. look for gm to redesign the D-max to use the reverse air flow on the heads that they developed in the first place. all and all i love the D-max but i think that this new ford engine will be a very good powerful engine.

stop saying that ford or dodge arent american made they are built in mexico i was a ford fan but i didnt like it after a will il stick to real american made truck which is the gm trucks !!!vortec 6.2l!! !!!6.6l LML duramax!!!

If Ford wants the best engine they need to bring back the 7.3L. Best diesel engine made.

First off, I'm a diesel repair co. owner. Dodge has by far the MOST problems.
We test drove GM then the new 6.7L SD and fell in love with it. No one can keep up with it even when it's loaded with 20,000 lbs of tools. Yea. You heard that right.
Chevy buff turned Ford!



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