2011 Toyota Trucks Will Meet New Towing Standards

Tundra-1-560
Words and Photos by Mark Williams for PickupTrucks.com

For truck enthusiasts who watch tow ratings like their favorite football teams’ scores, there’s a change coming.

It’s no secret that each manufacturer has its own way of testing the maximum towing capacity of its pickup trucks; the gamesmanship over the years is well-documented. To level the playing field, the Society of Automotive Engineers decided a few years ago to form a task force to determine which procedures and regulations should be instituted to make sure each automaker gives the consumer the most accurate — and comparable — tow rating.

The idea is to make sure each manufacturer uses the same testing procedures so the consumer can get the best and most accurate information. To date, there is only a proposed standard, called J2807, that is still in formal deliberations; however, with all the manufacturers currently involved, there is something of a “gentlemen’s agreement” that the 2013 model year will be the target date to have these processes and procedures in place across the board.

But some are adopting these guidelines early. That’s why Toyota invited us out for a day of towing (at maximum capacities) to let us know that all of its 2011 models already comply with J2807. Of note, many of the new tow ratings on identically equipped vehicles from the previous year have gone down, in some cases considerably.

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This is largely because the new SAE procedures are quite thorough and exhausting, and they include a rather challenging handling requirement that many automakers had not considered. The end result for truck buyers is that from one year to the next, they might see some changes in the maximum tow ratings of their favorite pickups (usually down, but possibly in some cases up). And it may not mean the vehicle has changed in any way, just that it is being tested more thoroughly than before.

An important issue to keep in mind, especially in the next several years, is that an SAE-rated vehicle cannot necessarily be compared to one that is not SAE rated because the two ratings are likely to be calculated with two different methods. This is similar to the situation we had a few years ago when the EPA changed its testing procedures to determine fuel economy, or when the EPA changed how engine horsepower was calculated.

Any change in methodology will make direct comparisons difficult, if not impossible, but the tow rating issue is complicated by the fact that the full procedural changeover for every manufacturer may not be complete for one or two model years. In the meantime, pay special attention as to whether the pickup truck you are interested in buying is SAE-rated or not.

PickupTrucks.com readers should be familiar with the wars over maximum towing capacity that have heated up over the past 10 years in the half-ton and heavy-duty arenas. Ford, GM and Ram have magically upped their rating numbers at different points with seemingly little or no changes to a specific frame or suspension. Also, they’ve all been guilty of using their maximum towing numbers — which typically relate to a very specific low-volume vehicle — to gain some type of advertising advantage when every knowledgeable truck enthusiast knew the numbers applied only to a specific model and not across the lineup.

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That is partly why SAE finally stepped in to try to standardize the testing and rating procedures, making sure a truck-to-truck comparison can be done. Every cab and powertrain combination, including some of the more popular option packages, will need to be tested for ratings. The ultimate benefit is for the consumer, as automakers will be forced to play (or tow) on an equal basis, with more transparency.

In Toyota’s case, the tow rating of most of the vehicles tested went down a proportional amount across the lineup — for Tundra, about 400 pounds. In other cases, especially with midsize and large SUVs, the drop in towing capacity was closer to 100 or 200 pounds.

Be aware of the coming changes and know that some manufacturers may try to embellish their ratings in the next year or two before they start testing with the new standards. Here is a brief, but not thorough or exhaustive, description of some of the J2807 testing procedures:

1) A vehicle must be able to pull a trailer of a designated weight (and shape) up a Davis Dam simulation at a minimum speed of 40 mph in ambient temperatures of 101 degrees with the maximum air conditioning turned on at the full fan setting. The run must be done several times, and there must be and no overheating, no puking and no trouble codes.

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2) All trailers must adhere to the same specifications as set forth by the J2807 procedures. They must be boxed with a flat face of a specified height and width.

3) On a level road, the vehicle and trailer combination must be able to accelerate from zero to 30 mph in less than 12 seconds, zero to 60 mph in 30 seconds, and run 40-60 mph in less than 18 seconds.

4) A vehicle and trailer must be able to launch a minimum distance of 16 feet from a stop up a 12-percent grade five times in five minutes, measured both in Drive and Reverse.

5) A vehicle and trailer combination must be able to stay in control and in its original lane when panic stopping from 80 mph. In those cases where the combination cannot attain that speed, the vehicle’s upper limit will suffice.

6) The vehicle and trailer combination must be able to perform the necessary low-speed turning circle test with the minimum of understeer or trailer push.

7) For trailers weighing less than 3,000 pounds, the vehicle must be able to stop the combination (without trailer brakes) in 35 feet or less. If the trailer is more than 3,000 pounds, the distance is 80 feet.

8) The parking brake on the towing vehicle must be able to hold the trailer (without trailer brakes) pointed up and down a 12-percent grade.

Comments

So it sounds like it will actually be safe and realistic to tow at the max towing capacity once this new rating system goes into effect. I have often wondered if it is really safe to tow more than 10,000#s in a half-ton pickup. Never done it before, but I bet it makes your hair stand on end!

This is great news.
Toyota did not see a huge drop in towing with their pickups. The crewcabs took the biggest hit.
It will be interesting to see how the "domestics" fare.
These parameters will hit the HD trucks the hardest.
Who is going to be the brave or crazy test driver doing an 80 MPH panic stop pulling 18,000 lbs.??
Put a diaper on the guy before you start. (LOL)

These parameters should be used in the next PUTC shootout.

Meh. A lot of these didn't change or didn't change much.

John,

The major changes were in the Tundra..that is what counts as most truck buyers tow..not many suv buyers tow a heavier load than 5000 lbs...the Tundra dropped 1,100 lbs..that will make a difference..

But with Toyota's blowing up engines,bad transmissions,rusting frames,cracking tailgates,busted rear ends,broken drive shafts...its a wonder why they even say you can tow with a inferior ,unreliable Toyota product..I wouldnt feel safe to do so !!!

@ deity

you are a troll. it will last longer than your favorite product guaranteed. you OBVIOUSLY have zero idea of what your saying. simply put, you know NOTHING of how a tundra is built. You also probably dont know that the truck is MORE american than the one your driving. LOL its safer to tow with a Tundra than your truck for sure. But you have no idea why lol

for #7 you didn't state the speed at which it had to stop at 35 feet.
deity if you don't have anything nice to say about toyota than why troll about it.

hemi lol..

YOU ARE AN UNEDUCATED DOLT !!

TOYOTA IS NOT THE MOST AMERICAN TRUCK !! THE DODGE RAM HAS THE MOST AMERICAN CONTENT...(not that I care as you are consumed by that fact)

The problems I mentioned are well documented facts....

I am a certified mechanic,so I know !! You know nothing but eating cheeto's in your parents basement,as evident by your juvenile comments and your name ,you use "lol" anyone who uses,says that are uneducted dolts !

As you knock the HEMI ,the HEMI powers Ford,GM and Toyota top fuel vehicles ,boats ect...and has dominated the racing world for decades !! You mock the Hemi you truly are the one to laugh at !!

I owned them all and you mock the Hemi,everybody knows you are a fool !! No new truck can out run the Hemi Ram...the R/T runs mid 13's from the showroom floor !! No turbo,no supercharger just pure power !! This is why my Ford is going for another Dodge Ram HEMI !!

Furthermore,Toyota does not have not the most reliable vehicles,their engines actually blow up,welds on minivan doors come undone,popping open at speed,Corolla cars side glass shatters for no reason,Lexus engines blow up,bad transmissions ect........But,I do know why you are uneducated/misinformed !!! Its really not your fault,you were born like that.

Sincerly,
DIETY.

I have a 2007 double cab 8' bed w/ 140k and tow my camper all over the northeast each summer. No issues with blowing up engines, bad transmissions, rusting frames, cracking tailgates, busted rear ends or broken drive shafts. That description matches my Ford except for the leaking oil which drove me nuts.

Josh,hemi lol..

You guys are asking for it...hemi lol is making fun of the worlds greatest engine..the Hemi..
And Toyota is riddled with problems,as a former Toyota owner I can say Toyota's are over rated..
Josh the Tundra lost 1,100 lbs of towing,how is Diety saying anything bad,its all the truth !! problems and all !! Man up and except the facts Toyota is lousy at building vehicles.It's like the mythical kung fu fighter that can beat 100 guys up at once,its all b.s ! As is Toyota's so called reliability quality,its all b.s !! I owned a few of them and they were not good !

I'd be very surprised if there was a half-ton shootout that included the Ford EcoBoost and it wasn't the overall winner. I couldn't really care less about any of the other half tons. Maybe the Ram 1500 Hemi would be my 2nd pick. Toyota somewhere down the bottom. Close proximity to the Titan.

The SAE standards could have been a lot more severe. The problem is "towing standards" are a big selling tool in the US, so they appear to be a compromise. How can the Sequia go from 10,000lbs to 7000lbs overnight?. Too bad if you bought a Trailer that was OK to tow last year, but exceeds the towing capabilities this year?

I've seen a Tundra towing a trailer down a highway, there was a huge movement between a bed and a cab, no wonder why it's not safe to tow so much with those things. All I see about Toyota's that they are overrated pieces of crap!

@diety

i'll comment more when i have some time. FYI DODGE TRUCKS HAVE 76% US content
Tundra has 80% US content.

HHHHHMMMMMMM I'm not a rocket scientist but i believe thats more american...... plus its ONLY assembled in San Antonio TX. OH and the engine and trans are built HERE IN THE US not Mexico.

another FYI genius i BUILD cars, not sit and spit hatred at other vehicles. you regular cab 5.7 Hemi vs. my 4x4 Crew Max Tundra with intake and exhaust...... The Tundra wins EVERYTIME. see i've had plenty of people try to outrun mine, they lost just like yours would. Now i KNOW your yellin about a ram that runs 13's. FYI thats a V10 mr. mechanic not a Hemi. the ORIGINAL 426 Hemi was cool, the current 5.7 not so much.

as for the V10, the 5.7 with TRD supercharger wins that race too................

My screen named worked. it got your panties in a bunch.


Oh and worlds greatest engine needs 2 spark plugs...... stop it lol lol. apparantly you need more ASE training if your not aware of all the technology advances the Tundra has over the dodge. you should look them up, theres a WHOLE PAGE OF THEM. I will finish this when i have more time. ;)

Although I am not a Toyota fan I have to give them kudos for adopting the new standard early. This has been needed for a very long time. I used to own an 89 Dodge half ton, the owners manual said towing max for the 1500 was 4000 lbs, the diesel 3500 was 9000 lbs. 20 years later the numbers
have gone through the roof.

The Toyota bashing has begun.

@DIETY - the hemi is the dominant engine in Top Fuel drag racing because the rules won't let you run any other configuration.
Same thing goes for NASCAR. You might as well say GM's small block V8 is dominant. NASCAR rules state you can't run anything other than a carbureted pushrod small block V8.

You comment is like a Harley guy saying V-twin Harleys are the dominant engine - but the guy only races AHDRA (All Harley Drag Racing Assoc).

Toyota's quality has taken a hit but it still rates higher than Chrysler er. Dodge er. Ram er.... (insert new name here!)

@diety

You know nothing!

Have you owned a Toyota longer than 5 years?

Your rambling comments are NOT fact, they are your personal opinion because you have such a hatred for Toyota.

I may not like or drive other brands, but I will not go to the FABRICATED lengthes as you would!

Your just a child that was brought up to hate anything foreign. Please grow up and join the discussion without hatred.

@Lou,

Yeah what about the Toyota Hemi back in the 70's for the Corolla. I am sure the full of hatred guy will not mention that...

Toyota's quality has not taken a big hit, they are still up their in the rankings ahead of GM and the other government controlled company called Chrysler and Ford can only claim they have gotten near Toyota and not overtaken them.

Scion is still the best brand in quality out there and while we are on pickups, the Tacoma was the ONLY pickup on the top 10 list of retained value after 5 years of ownership!

The Tacoma retains more value than any pickup out there, at around 44% after 5 years and many Toyota's are in the top 10 still.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/...top_ten/3.html

So he can keep rambling all he wants...

Actually that link is having problems so from Kelley Blue Book, the Tacoma is the only pickup on their top 10 list:

http://www.kbb.com/car-awards/best-resale-value-awards/overall-top-10#zipo=e27111e589f2ad436daa153c82a31fe1

The 2011 F150 has 4 brand new engines that completely outclasses the Tundra in every way. You would be a fool to purchase a Tundra over any comparably equipped F150. This isn’t even counting all the added features the F150 offers over the Tundra.

I am far from a Toyota fan but bickering over whether we like/trust Toyotas is dumb I loved this article and love the new towing rating standards seem very realistic, and although Id rather walk than own a Tundra im sure the big3 and Datsun will see some tow ratings change as well so everyone chill

wow, I should say that this is handsome. And Toyota is riddled with problems,as a former Toyota owner I can say Toyota's are over rated..
Josh the Tundra lost 1,100 lbs of towing,how is Diety saying anything bad,its all the truth !! problems and all !! Man up and except the facts Toyota is lousy at building vehicles.It's like the mythical kung fu fighter that can beat 100 guys up at once

The F150 has more payload and towing capacity than the turdra and no matter how they change the towing standards the F150 will still be on top. I have not felt safe towing heavy with a turdra. Doesn't matter what the standard is the F150 is my weapon of choice.

Back on topic. I to would like to see how all vehicles that have a tow rating will fare against the new standard.

Everybody will benefit from this new rating. These new HD pickups, especially Diesel HDs, can pull most anything, regardless of brand. But, what about the brakes on the tow vehicle?

Imagine those 19000 pound trailers used in the Rumble in the Rockies 2 feature having a brake failure. It may take a while for a 9000 pound truck to stop a 19000 pound trailer going 60 MPH down a 7% grade!

PUT PLAIN AND SIMPLE, THE ONLY REASON THE OTHER MANUFACTURERS HAVENT ADOPTED THIS IS SIMPLY BECAUSE IF THEY DID THERE NUMBERS WOULD FALL THOUSANDS OF POUNDS!

For the goofball that thinks the ford engine "outclasses" all the Toyota engines.................... Genius, Ford is JUST NOW starting to try to adopt engine dynamics the Tundra and Tacoma have had since 2004!!!!! Oh and let me remind you the 6.2 is STILL only a SOHC not a DOHC. You have no clue what your saying if you think Ford's new engines outclass Toyota's. Ford is at a minimum 5 YEARS behind Toyota. Always have been and probably always will be.

The reason others haven't adopted it yet is because the rating procedures haven't been finalized yet.

Quote from Chrysler in another post: ""the standard you are referring to is not finalized. Close but not final. That being said, no truck officially adheres to it."

Mike's response: "correct. As the story says, it's still a draft standard that has to be officially ratified by the members of its committee. But it's far enough along that most of its content won't change before it's approved. The quote from Chrysler is word for word what I was told yesterday and it echoes what they've told me before, earlier this year. "


That was just a couple months ago.

@ dave

if it werent finalized, toyota wouldnt have adopted it. its finalized, everyone else is looking for a reason NOT to adopt it so they can make changes to their vehicles so that they will perform ok without losing face. thats why they havent adopted it.

I recently hauled a full load of top soil in the bed of my Tundra to where the rear springs were fully compressed, AND I hauled a trailer full of cement stepping stones behind it at the same time. It wasn't smart of me to overload a half-ton pickup truck that way but I did not want to make two long trips. The Tundra held up just fine. Stopping distance was increased ten-fold but I got home alright. Don't underestimate what a Tundra can do. It is just as good as, if not better than, any half-ton Ford, Chevy or Dodge.

hemi,
Maybe. Maybe not. As of a couple months ago, the terms had not been finalized. This article does not say it is final or not.

If Toyota wants to do it sooner, good for them. But nobody can say that they meet or exceed the ratings until the terms are finalized.

Also, GCWR is not listed.

Everyone knows that the iforce 5.7 is a poor copy of Dodge's Hemi. I've raced a 5.7 Tundra off the line with my stock 5.6 Titan and was ahead about one car lane and going. Wait until the direct injected 400hp 5.6 from the Infiniti QX comes over to the new Titan and all of you Nissan Haters will be jealous !

It would be great for pickuptrucks.com to do this test with the Ford, Dodge, Chevy, and Nissan (all 2010) model years to see how or if their #'s drop. If this test is the new standard then people should know how much their truck can tow safely.

That's how Toyota build their double cab pick up. Use a regular cab with a rusty frame tow more than 5000 lbs and the truck will strech as much as you need. You end up with a double can pick up.

Why does every single discussion turn out this way? Where have all of the mature people of this world gone? Grow up people and get a life! For people who have such disdain for Toyota, they seem to be very interested in saying something everytime a subject comes up. If you hate Toyota, nobody really cares.

I'm not a big Dodge fan, but everytime a Dodge topic comes up I don't go out of my way, taking time out of busy day, to go on to post negative comments. Criticism is one thing, but the same people come on here, time after time, to post how Toyota is junk, or Toyota is lesser of a truck. I had an 08 Tundra and guess what, no problems whatsoever, and when I traded the thing in I nearly got as much for my used truck as a friend of mine paid for a new Ram! That really says something people. In any event I'm not travelling down that same road so many people on here do.

I don't know why, but it must possibly, and ammusingly, bring some crazy sort of warped joy into their lives and make them feel better about their own trucks (most of the people posting this stuff probably drive around in a Cobalt or a Focus anyways).

As William Shatner said in a famour SNL skit - "Get a life people!"

"To date, there is only a proposed standard, called J2807, that is still in formal deliberations; however, with all the manufacturers currently involved, there is something of a “gentlemen’s agreement” that the 2013 model year will be the target date to have these processes and procedures in place across the board."

The standard is still being finalized.

Ric17: Couldn't have said it better myself. I own a F150, and I don't know how the hell anyone can tow more than 10K with this truck. It feels underpowered @ 7K behind it. Anyhow, I have no problems with Toyota, they are not at the top of my "to buy list", but they are fine autos. My F150 has been wonderful as well. You know, to think of it, ALL of my trucks have been wonderful with the required maintenance and if something is going wrong, fix it promptly.

Bodystyle wise, which is the way I buy a pickup (not all this top notch towing, High HP, pretty dash, blah.... crap), I would buy a Nissan SE 4x4 before another F150 STX 4x4 (32K for ext cab before TTL at the time, 4.6L 2V 4x4) simply because I could get a 5-6K difference in price, the Titan is cheaper (brand new, 26.5K out the door for a 4x4 Sport Edition with 5.6L) for the same equipment when I was checking. Then, it would be Dodge if I planned on paying above 30K for a truck, for an SLT 4x4 that is. I LOVE the look of the new Dodge Ram, they got it right.

You are right though, the same guys usually come in to bash certain models, mainly the ones you see here doing just that. Fanboi status here is blinding as lightning at times, it is so apparent it is hard to see.

Glad they are making tow ratiing uniform. I just want a truck with a 4,000 lb tow rating. They could make the vehicle a lot lighter and with a smaller motor, just think of the gas mileage they could achieve and they would sell quite a few of them.

Ric17: Nail on the head! I scroll through past all non-fact brand bashing garbage to read positive or valid questions about the articles. A lot of this BS detracts from the value of the news that Mike brings to us. This is one of my favorite sites to come to for up to date truck news! I'm a Ford guy but commend Toyota for "making it real" on tow ratings!

I own a 2006 Tacoma TRD, a 2007 Expedition EL and a 7500# dry weight / 8200# loaded travel trailer.

With regard to reliability, I've had zero problems with my Taco - oil, gas and new tires. The Expedition (our first Ford) has already had a leaking axle, ball joints (both upper and lower) replaced, a clogged fuel filter (though we gas both at the same Mobil) and had the tranny flashed b/c the accerlerator would pause up to three seconds before moving the vehicle (google Ford Tip In Acceleration problems). Thankfully, all the Ford work has been under warranty.

The Expedition was the only vehicle we could find that would accomodate our four kids, dog and the trailer (the only other option was a Suburban 2500, but I won't buy a Gov't. Motor). It works pretty well, but I can't imagine towing more because the acceleration, handling and braking are lethargic. Even worse are the idiot drivers that pull in front of us, cut us off, etc. making the drive a week bit stressful. Granted we are at the max capacity, but I would find it hard to believe that an ECO-Boost powered F150 would maintain a 10k+ tow rating.

I think this is a step inthe right direction, kudos to Toyota for being the first to adhere to the standard.

Makes me feel better that their will be fewer bad-asses yanking around 11K pounds in their 1/2 ton truck, blazing down the freeway in a fit of glory, waiting for the others to cower out of the way of their necessity to load their Half-ton truck to the hilt to prove that their favorite truck can do it. Yes, we are making progress. An end to the fake towing numbers is around the corner, this will be SAFER for all who travel around the heavy runners loaded up to the max.

The article is not titled correctly; it should read: "Toyota to list new tow ratings on it's window stickers".

@hemi lol

I agree Toyota had 32 valved 4 overhead cammed engines from the 1st generation Tundra. Now everyone is moving towards that and offering 6-speed transmissions.

I had a 2005 Tacoma with the 4.0L and that was a 24 valve dual overhead cam engine with 6-speed transmission.

Heck the 1995 Tacoma was a 24 valve dual overhead cam engine with the 3.4L motor!

They also have turbo-diesels overseas and so forth...

Kudos to Toyota for being the first to voluntarily accept the new standards. As the brand bashers have pointed out - the CrewMax took an 1,100 lb hit.
I wonder how much of a drop the F150 SuperCrew will take. It is a heavy pickup. I bet it will take a huge hit with the 5.0 - maybe 2,000 lb.
I think the EB 3.5 and 6.2's will be similar to the CrewMax drop in towing.
My 2010 F150 is rated at 9,500. I suspect the new standards would drop it a few thousand pounds. I'm not concerned as I was looking at a trailer weighing 6,500 lb. +/- 500 lb.

The only negative is that these standards cannot be compared directly to previous models.

2013 is the implimentation date - all of the truck manufacturers will have new trucks out that same model year.
Too bad we have to wait 3 years for an apples to apples comparison.

I was reviewing towing requirements and anyone pulling more than 10,000 lb. (farmers exempt) need a commercial licence or heavy towing endorsement(depending on jurisdiction)

"To date, there is only a proposed standard, called J2807, that is still in formal deliberations; however, with all the manufacturers currently involved, there is something of a “gentlemen’s agreement” that the 2013 model year will be the target date to have these processes and procedures in place across the board."

The standard is still being finalized.

Posted by: AL

----

Good eye, Al. That is what I thought was happening.

What is it with guys that place the Hemi on an altar?
To quote allpar:
They were neither new nor invented by Chrysler; the first recorded use of a hemispherical combustion chamber was the four cylinder engine powering the "Welch," which was, depending on the source, a Michigan company or a British design. Hemi heads were the design of choice for many famous marques in the automotive industry, including Miller racing. Duesenberg. Stutz. Offenhauser. All high performance machinery.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/chrysler-hemi.html

The "Hemi" name is now just a copywrited trademark. Chrysler can apply than hemi name to any product they want.
Case in point:
A Chrysler Hemi engine, known by the trademark Hemi, is a series of V8 internal combustion engines built by Chrysler that utilize a hemispherical combustion chamber. Chrysler built three generations of hemi engines for automobiles: the first (known as the Chrysler FirePower engine) from 1951–1958, the second from 1964–1971, and the third beginning in 2003. During the 1970s and 1980s, Chrysler also used the Hemi designation for the four-cylinder Mitsubishi 2.6L engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi_engine

Chrysler also used the Hemi designation for the four-cylinder Mitsubishi 2.6L engine

I had to repeat that last line for effect.

Any company can design a hemisperical head engine and many have.

Chrysler is the only one legally allowed to call it a "Hemi".

Next time you want to brag about the "HEMI"

think 4 banger rice burner.

@yorarider,

Another Toyota HATER just rambling lies and fabrications!

Unless you are a complete moron and lack proper maint. of your ride, I have RARELY heard of a 22R having that many issues unless the owner was an idiot like yourself!

Your a Ford guy and you will bash Toyota at any cost and make up stuff about how great your Ford is today as you have so far.

Your comments are not belivable because I doubt you owned a Toyota by your HATRED comments!

Keep fabricating, your giving Ford such a good name...

Oxi,

man don't get offended at other's perspective . There are many times you and Hemi LOL immediately post negatives about other brands, come on man, you know you do. :) I have seen it sparked as the first couple of comments myself before.

I do agree with you though on one point, most of the TRIPE littering this topic is nothing but fanboi bias-ness and strawman arguments, and it seems likely that it isn't going to change. I suspect their are alot of highschoolers on this site as well, spreading their vitriol towards other brands simply because they don't care for it one way or another. That's cool with me. I will say though, it seems like the Ford fanboi's that are the mostdiscretionary in their tripe and spread this kind of nonsense ad nausiem. Some things will never change.

I think it is a good thing that Toyota is the first to comply with the rules even if they are NOT required to do so at this time, and not fo one minute do I believe they are doing it because "they cannot compete against the big-3" like some are geared sway.

@ Lou, I think that would be right 2000lbs at least. Here in Australia, a F150 Lariat is rated at 7000lbs a F350 Dually about 12,000lbs. Except for the F150, they are all used as "user friendly"TV's for some heavier Caravans and 5Vers. The numbers imported are not vast, but they have their place as a niche here.
The whole idea of these standards is SAFETY, more specifically handling and stopping safely. Overloading is not "manly" but foolhardy.

@ Lou Another thing about the Chrysler Hemi that makes it a Hemi is the placement of the valves. Most pushrod engines place the valves front to back in relation to the engine. The Chrysler Hemi places the valves side by side. this allows for much better volumetric efficiency as the intake air can scavenge the exhuast from the cylinder more effectivly due to a straighter path for the airflow. This Hemi has also appeared on Wards 10 best engines list several times.

@ jordan

If 1 intake and 1 exhaust valve next to each increase volumetric efficiency than having 2 exhaust and 2 intake next to each other REALLY would increase volumetric efficiency then right?? that should put the Toyota 5.7 at the very top of that wards ten best list. ;)with 4 valves per cylinder you can then have ONE centrally located spark plug (5.7 tundra) with an iridium plug that gets changed at 120k VS. 2 platinum plugs that have to be changed every 30-40k (hemi 5.7). i wouldnt consider volumetric efficiency with an engine that requires 16 spark plugs when it should only need 8. to further your comment about volumetric efficiency....... This is why the Toyota 5.7 can advance/retard the intake and exhaust cams separately of each other which also ELIMINATES the need for an EGR valve because it is able to create its own internal EGR with the valve timing.

Sorry for the rant, but................. If i never post this stuff then nobody will learn the reasons why this truck is SO ahead of its time. even the big 3 fan boys have read this now like it or not ;)

I am Toyota employee and a past Toyota vehicle owner. Notice the word past. The F150 is the best value, quality product hands down. the Ram is close. I've compared them all carefully first hand last summer. You just can't find much to like about the Tundra. Sure, the horsepower and torque figures are good, but only if you drag race fullsize pickups. I leave those activities to my snowmobile and ATV. Everything else leaves you asking things like why is this like that? why does this interior look like that? Why does the frame twist and flap around? Oh yea, cost cut open C channel with a raised inner lip so all the sand, salt, mud and other debris can sit in there and silently rust away your truck frame while you lie in bed at night continually wondering if you made the right purchase. After careful comparison the new F150 is a far better in every way vehicle than the Tundra. Get a clue people, Toyota quality is a falsehood. I can assure you that cost cutting was the number one priority when Toyota designed that truck. Maximizing profits while removing all of the quality items from the vehicle that Toyota thinks the consumer will not notice has been the name of the game for the past 5 years or so. Paper thin sheet metal, inadequately sized bolts, engine mounts, etc.. I could go on forever. If you want to have a proven trustworth truck stick to the Detroit 3. They've been making trucks for ever and are truely masters of their product. How long has Toyota been building fullsize trucks? ........................Exactly. Anyone who would ever use their truck for more than taking bags of leaves to the dump would never buy a Tundra. A heavy engineering design infuence from Japan where fullsize pickups do not exits equals they just don't understand the market, or what it takes to design and build a truck that truely competes. I looked at the Tundra just for shits and giggles and that's what it was. The shits, and I giggled. The previous generation Tundra is a victim of rotting out frames due to inferior quality steel. This problem was not recognized until well after the current generation Tundra was put into production. Guess what will happen in the future to those trucks. I hope all you Tundra lovers hold on tight for the day that your Tundra frame snaps in half while pulling that loaded up snowmobile trailer. I'll wave at you as I keep on rolling in my trusty proven F150. Enjoy!



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