Ford F-150 EcoBoost V-6 Beats V-8 Competition in Dam Challenge

Ford F-150 EcoBoost V-6 Beats V-8 Competition in Dam Challenge

The Baja 1000 wasn’t the only head-to-head competition that Ford’s 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 engine faced during its multiple-month torture test. Before it raced 1,000 miles off-road in the harsh Mexican desert, the all-new six also beat V-8-powered pickups from Chevrolet and Ram on the steep Davis Dam hill climb in Arizona.

Ford has been pushing its revolutionary V-6 to the extremes to prove to truck buyers that its twin-turbo gasoline direct-injection 3.5-liter EcoBoost mill is every bit the equal of a conventional V-8.

The same engine also endured the equivalent of 150,000 harsh-user miles on the dynamometer, then was installed into a new 2011 F-150 to work as a log skidder in Oregon, and towed a trailer (loaded to near the F-150’s maximum 11,300-pound tow rating at high speed around a NASCAR track for 24 hours.

Davis-dam-specs-1-560

The Davis Dam test was arranged and managed by Ford using a 2011 Ford F-150 XLT. It was joined by a Chevy Silverado 1500 with a 5.3-liter Vortec V-8 and a Ram 1500 with a 5.7-liter Hemi V-8. Each crew-cab truck towed a 9,000-pound trailer up the grade.

Davis Dam, which has a 5 percent average grade, is one of the toughest grades in the U.S. The Society of Automotive Engineers and a cooperative group of truck manufacturers chose it as the climb site to create standardized tow rating tests for new pickups by 2013.

Ford measured how long it took the trucks to perform in two tests: The first challenge was a zero-to-60 mph test, and the second was time over 3.5 miles of the grade, which is about 12 miles long.

Davis-dam-1-560

In both tests, run at wide open throttle, Ford’s EcoBoost V-6 beat the Chevy and Ram V-8s.

In the zero-to-60 test, the Ford was faster by 12.6 seconds than the Chevy and 11.9 seconds faster than the Ram.

Over 3.5 miles, the F-150 outperformed the Silverado 1500 by 42.9 seconds and 3.2 seconds faster than the Ram 1500.

Davis-dam-data-1-560
Results of the fastest run for each truck are shown above

For each test, three runs were made using independent professional drivers. The trucks switched drivers and lanes to reduce the chance for variances during the runs.

Besides the engines, the biggest differences among the similarly configured trucks were the rear axles. The Ram had a work-optimized 3.92 rear axle; the Chevy had a 3.42 rear axle optimized toward fuel economy; and the EcoBoost truck split the difference with a 3.73 rear axle.

“We took care to ensure the constancy, accuracy and integrity of the tests, and to have the results verified independently,” said Eric Kuehn, 2011 F-150 chief engineer.

The EcoBoost V-6 will be available in the 2011 Ford F-150 early next year. With up to 90 percent of peak torque available between 1,700 rpm to 5,000 rpm, we’re looking forward to putting its diesel-like performance through a rigorous road test as soon as we can.

In the meantime, you can also see how it performed in our quarter-mile test a few weeks back or check out the Davis Dam video on Ford's website.

Davis-dam-4-560

[Source: Ford]

Comments

As much as I want to believe and buy this EcoBoost engine, I will not. I am sorry, but if somebody needs to prove over and over, that his engine is better than competition, I feel something suspicious. I simple don't believe that this is the same engine after 160000 miles of torture. Maybe just engine block with serial number. It's just to much pushing from ford. If they would just bring it on the market, without this stupid competing, I would maybe buy it, because of trust. But not anymore. I have a HEMI and I pull. I know my stuff. I will wait for new Cummins 5L V8 in RAM 1500. Good luck ford guys.

This Ford engine carries a premium price but still can't overtake a 5.7 Tundra which has been around for 4 years now. If I add $4000 factory supercharger to my Tundra's it will still be in the same price range and have significantly more power and torque than any of the competition. If you look at the real world comparisons of pick ups over the last couple of years, the Tundra continuously posts equal MPG with their 5.7 V-8 as others do with thier smaller engines even though there is a big differance in EPA ratings. My 2007 Tundra Crewmax 5.7 consistantly gets between 20 and 21 MPG on the highway. I towed a 27 foot enclosed snowmobile trailer through a Blizzard in Northern Wisconsin with 5 adults, 5 sleds and gear, and in 4WD the entire way and still achieved 11 to 12 MPG with a 7500 pound trailer. Also, there was enough room inside for everybody to be comfortable for the 8 hour ride home. There isn't another truck out there that can compare to the Crewmax for comfort, MPG, and towing ability! Try to fit 3 guys over 6 feet tall in the back seat of an F150 for an extended trip!

Greg,
The Ford fans were complaining when it was the 1.5 ton F450 vs the 3/4 ton Chevy.

I don't think the Ford fans asking for 3/4 ton vs 3/4 ton is too picky.

@ BrianDR

I guess you've never been in the back of a 09+ SCrew. Ummmm its not small back there.

There are three trucks that can compare to the Crewmax in terms of comfort, mpg and towing ability:

i) F150 SCrew with a 5.0
ii) F150 SCrew with a EB
iii) F150 SCrew with a 6.2L

In the F150 I don't have to ask the front seat passenger to reach the radio or hvac controls that are waaaaaaaay over there.

Glad you like your TuRD, but don't be spreading lies about the others. ;)

@ mike levine

Great i cant wait to see the results of this at davis dam and the rockies with ALL the "premium" towing rigs. its really cool what ford is doing with the 3.5 but its obvious why they left out the 6.2 GM and the 5.7 tundra. ford propaganda stinks.

I cant wait to watch hemi lol eat his words as the ecoboost dismantles first the 6.2 gm and then the rice burner 5.7 toyota. hopefully the accelator sticks during the test so the tundra has somewhat of a chance haha

For all of those complaining; "Why no G.M. 6.2L...?" or "Why no Toyoda 5.7L...?"

This test is to show that the "new little kid on the block" (3.5L V6), can go toe to toe with the "teenagers" (V8s) on the street that will not cut the new guy a break.

If you must have your G.M. 6.2L V8 and Toyoda 5.7L V8 included in this test to "try" and prove something to this 3.5L V6 (almost 3 liters smaller than the 6.2L and more than 2 liters smaller than the 5.7L- Oh, and lacking two cylinders)...then bring those engines on.

We'll just have to wait for the weekend to come...when the "new kid on the block" gets a visit from his "bigger brother home from college" (6.2L) to take on the G.M. and Toyoda boys for a REAL apples to apples test!

Why that EcoBoost sounds like an V8 in Ford's videos, other than in PT-quarter mile test...? Beside that I think I saw a Hybrid badge (on a tailgate) on that Silverado test towing in AZ - not 100% sure, but maybe You pickup guys can verify that infos...

THE TEST WAS DONE BY MOTOR TREND NOT FORD

This is great to hear! It makes me feel better about the smaller engine, now for some FE numbers.

Also guys, I am glad that Ford got their act together on drive train, my 2001 F150 has it weakness there (still a great truck), but IMHO it was not fair to run the 5.3 up against the 3.5L, but I did not do the test though.....I think they should have used the 6.2L V-max engine, just my opinion.

Of course a turbo V6 will out run a small block, look at the grand national. That thing kicked azz back in the day. Like I said, Ford done GREAT with this idea, I am all for better FE, if it gets better FE. But, at the same time, I think maybe the 6.2L GM motor might bave been a better engine to pit against the EcoBoost V6. I know, you guys are die hard Ford boys, I take that into account.

My last couple of trucks have been F150's with one Dodge thrown in the mix, but I still feel the same, shoulda used the 6.2L V-max engine.

This test was obvious that the 5.3L was going to lose, it is way down on torque, hell Nissan V-6 in the Infinity outruns the SHO with NA motor, and less torque and HP, but the nissan V-6 NA motor has damn near the power of the SB 5.3L

What I cannot understand is why people are so suprised? Forced induction is the same thing as PHYSICALLY adding displacement to the engine, so why the suprise? Just saying, because each and every time the EB is featured here, all the fanboi's come out slagging the competion or Ford or whatever. Truthfully, I am NOT suprised, because I UNDERSTAND the maening of FORCED INDUCTION aka ADDING DISPLACEMENT. I wonder what size engine a 3.5L V6 Twin Turbo is really displacing?

People just need to give props to Ford and move on, there is nothing else to say about it. Couple Forced Induction with Variable Cam Timing and you have a very powerful and efficient engine, and if engineered correctly (as in the EB for example, it is still holding up), the eingine will last as long as a typical NA motor.

So, why all the nastiness and strawman arguments towards one brand or the other? Ford came up with something no one else was trrying in the market yet of Full Size trucks, and it looks as if it is going to pan out for them. This is great for the consumer, although I would like for them to focus harder on FE and not quite so much on the pwer numbers, as most people tow/haul no where near what the capabilities of this truck is.

@Mark: No. Ford did the test. Motor Trend observed. We were invited too but I was unable to attend.

Good test, I can't wait to drive on of these new ecoboost Fords. as to why the Tundra isn't here, my guess is that Ford did its own testing beforehand and maybe it was a tad quiker so they were smart enough to not include it.

@ Red_4x4

Good comments, one point, V-max was the 6.0L nevre the 6.2L.

The year the 6.2L became available (09) they dropped the V-Max badge. It only applied to 6.0s pre 09. ;)

Oh hell, thanks for the clarification Metal X. I know they were monsters.......

I can't wait to see the 8-speed auto behind the Hemi. If it was that close when it was a gear short, imagine when it has 2 more gears than the competition.

@Luke
Yeah, how do you feel about a ram being an import now? you know with fiat and all? also rumor has it that fiat may be building the 5 liter cummins in the 1500 ram and not cummins, so then i will really have some ammo to fire at the dodge import lovers ha as far as im concerned there are now only two domestic carmakers in the U.S., and thats ford and gm, but gm also took our tax dollars so truely there is only one meaningful domestic automaker, and thats the one that started it all for us here in the U.S.A. and thats the FORD. And even when hallowed 8 speed tranny comes out (the hype has been on going for a while and wouldnt be suprised if the tranny never actually made it to production). my dad has a 2010 dodge ram 2500. its garbage that things has been back to the dealer for either recalls needing to be fixed or something with the electronics not working. im suprised the dodge cotton tranny has even held up to 40,000 miles. P.S.- he's looking to trade it in on a real truck...2011 Ford Super Duty

The likely reason why the Toyoda was not compared...because the Toyoda is not a threat to Ford!!!

Ford sells more F-Series trucks in a week than Toyoda sells Tundras in a month. What would Ford have to prove? Obviously, Toyoda is not hurting Ford at all.

ROCK ON AMERICAN TRUCKS!!!

sales to tow 9k up the mountains

Tucker, what Ford assembly plant you work at?

Buy American or say bye to America:

Too late "patriot", Big Business (including Ford, F150 has 55% domestic/45% foreign parts, just for example) has sold this country down the river for a buck, NAFTA ring a bell? You'd be a sheep to eblieve otherwise. I have NO obligation to American this or that anymore, call it what you will. Hell, I don't even work for an American company, haven't for a few years. The plant i work at is owned by the Swedish. I sure hope your clothing, electronics, and cookware are all made in America, if not.....then hypocrisy comes to mind.

I hope that when PUTC does the next 1/2 ton shootout they test with every available motor from each truck maker.
We already saw the worktruck shootout so the base motors could be excluded.

I want to see a shootout with Ford's 5.0, 3.5 EB, and 6.2 against GM/Chev's 4.8, 5.3, 6.2 against Ram's 4.7 and 5.7 against Tundra 4.6 and 5.7 against Titan's 5.6.

I've never liked tests that only feature the "premium" engines as most of us in the real world don't buy them.
Provide me with the objective data and I'll make up my own mind as to which truck is the best (for me).

@lou,
agreed

Red_4x4:
"...I sure hope your clothing, electronics, and cookware are all made in America, if not.....then hypocrisy comes to mind."

I ALWAYS look to see where stuff is made, before I buy. If I happen to find that it is made in; North AMERICA, Central AMERICA, or South AMERICA by an AMERICAN owned company, I will certainly buy it. If it is made anywhere else, and still coming from an AMERICAN owned company, I will determine if I really need it or not. If it is made in China I will try and do without, unless there are no other alternatives.

I am an AMERICAN, living in AMERICA, working in AMERICA, benefiting from what AMERICA offers. I will support AMERICA and AMERICAN labor/products 100%. For those that do not have any "obligation" or "pride" in AMERICA or goods Made In America...what are you doing living in AMERICA? Go live in the country/economy that you do support. I would like to see what that other country's/countries way of life has to offer?

@BuStAANNut there was no 5.7 tundra because only REAL trucks were allowed.

"Forced induction is the same thing as PHYSICALLY adding displacement to the engine, so why the suprise? ...Truthfully, I am NOT suprised, because I UNDERSTAND the maening of FORCED INDUCTION aka ADDING DISPLACEMENT. I wonder what size engine a 3.5L V6 Twin Turbo is really displacing? "

Another fallacy to dispel, forced induction does not change the displacement of an engine! The engine is REALLY a 3.5 liter.
HOWEVER, If you add about 15 P.S.I. boost to a 3.5 Liter, and the operating RPM stays the same, then the engine will actually perform similarly to a 7 Liter. Forced induction might be SIMILAR to adding displacement, but it is far from the same thing. The reason for the difference is because the turbo does not provide 15 P.S.I. of boost from idle to redline. Boost is very dependent on throttle position and RPM. Hence, a 3.5L engine with a turbo will not behave the same as a 7L naturally aspirated engine.
Under low load conditions, the 3.5L should get better fuel economy than a larger engine due to less intrinsic friction and less reciprocating mass. Gasoline engines do not do as well overall, performance wise, as diesels, due to the gasoline engine requiring a throttle plate on the intake. And finally, also consider that diesel has about 30% more B.T.U.'s than gasoline per gallon.
Having said all that, I still believe that the 3.5L EB is a great engine. This test is simply to show that the EB can compete with the V8's from other manufacturers. It does very well even if it cannot beat the GM 6.2L or the 5.7L Tundra...
KUDOS to FORD for a GREAT

Sorry, y'all! ON my last post, I posted it before finishing my last sentence:
KUDOS to FORD for a GREAT engine and transmission combo...

@Tucker
you are asking how being a Ram owner it feels- Well certainly that last ten years its been fantastic to absolutely destroy any f150 I lined up against. Now you have a twin turbo and your getting cocky.. So ford couldn't make a normal v-8 that got decent mileage and was compeditive until 2011, not nessicarly something I would be bragging about.- I hope you'll get on the board and discuss repair costs- Twin turbo's?? maybe there's a reason no other brand has them in a full size gas truck. 2 big expensive repair bills when they blow maybe????? Cost to get the fins cleaned when they get dirty etc etc etc. maybe you should remeber the triton problems when they came out and the 6.0l desiel problems etc etc- Ford by no means gets it right all the time. Just remember the old saying There's no replacement for displacement!

suck it up guys ...this is only one more reason that ford is outselling all, I say all government motors trucks. They bash the competition by out performing, not comparing trucks in expensive, government handout, paid for addvertizing. Using Your hard earned tax money by the way..........duh

For those of you worrying about the flexibility/reliability of the twin-turbochargers...there was a time when Detroit Diesel (G.M.) and International/Navistar (Ford) slapped on turbochargers on their diesels for the first time on the Chevrolet/G.M.C. 6.5L and Ford 7.3L. There is a first time for everything. And look, they are still putting turbochargers on the diesels of today. If I am not mistaken, the turbochargers on the EcoBoost are made by Garrett...the same company making the turbochargers for the Duramax and for the Power Stroke. Reliability should not be an issue. Granted owners better properly service their vehicles according to the owners/service manual. I think Cummins uses a Holset turbocharger?

@ Red 4x4 - arguing with guys like buy american is like hitting your head against a brick wall over and over again. You'll never break through and all that will happen in the end is that you'll feel queasy, then your IQ will drop right before you enter a comatose state.

@ buy american - quote " I would like to see what that other country's/countries way of life has to offer?"
USA is anywhere from 3rd to not even in the top 20 best countries to live in based on standard of living(depending on the defining parameters for standard of living).
Buy American - kind of like having to buy American health care?
Millions of Americans cannot feed their kids, afford health care, or afford a decent education.
The middle class is rapidly becoming the lower class.
I know one thing that other countries have provided to the USA - over 3.3 trillion in loans to pay for Wall Street, Banks, and Auto bailouts.
Why don't you look up who owns USA's debt.
People's Republic of China .......................... 23.4 %
Japan ........................................................... 20.5 %
United Kingdom ............................................ 6.2 %
Oil exporters ................................................ 5.8 %
Brazil ........................................................... 4.6 %
Hong Kong(China).......................................... 4.1 %
Taiwan.......................................................... 3.2 %
Russia .......................................................... 3.2 %
Grand Total .................................................. 65.8 %

Those countries agree with you --- Buy American.

Foreign car manufacturers generate billions of dollars in jobs and community infrastructure in the U.S., but there is a difference between Detroit's economic footprint and that of its foreign rivals.

The Center for Automotive Research says Detroit's Big Three employed almost 240,000 people in the U.S. at the end of 2007. Foreign makers had about 113,00 U.S. employees at the time.

The key difference in how the Big Three and foreign brands support jobs in the U.S. comes outside the factories, according to a 2006 study by the Level Field Institute, a group formed by Big Three retirees in Washington.

"What's driving the difference in jobs ... is investment in research, design, engineering and management," Level Field President Jim Doyle said in a statement on the 2006 study.

The Center for Automotive Research said the Big Three had 24,000 engineers on U.S. payrolls in 2007. The Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association said its member companies had 3,500 U.S. research and development employees in 2007.

Level Field found that every 1,000 vehicles sold by Detroit's Big Three in the U.S. support more than twice as many jobs as 1,000 vehicles sold by foreign nameplates.

Most Americans consumers understand that the industry is global, Swiecki said, and they are more savvy than ever in purchasing vehicles.

source: cnn

They should have used the GM 6.2 in this contest. The ford 5.0 is more level with the gm 5.3. Still though, even though I'm a GM fanboy 100%, I still think the ecoboost would have beat the 6.2, but the results would have been much much closer.

So what I am getting out of all these comments on here is...

1. All most everybody who owns a dodge has to express how big their balls are by drag racing every other brand of truck they run into on the road. Seriously!?!? guys grow up ford did not design the EB to deflate your ego when it spanks you in a drag race.

2. People seem to be blind about turbos and how common they are in engines these days. I dont think there will be any real big issues with this motor but as always they say "dont buy the first year of any vehicle" so if your so worried then wait a year after it comes out.

3. MPG's...who worries about mpg's if your always drag racing other truck huh? those truck balls hangin off your hitch are probably costing you mpg's. This EB engine may not get "out of this world" mpgs for a truck but it gets great mpg's comparied to the amount of HP and TQ it has. I guess we will see when some of these auto review companies get ahold of it and do some more mpg specific testing.

4. As with everybody else I am too disapointed that Ford didnt test the big top of the line V8s...but Ford just wanted to show to the public that their 3.5L EB can out run engines with nearly twice the displacement. If your looking for more proof or reason to by it wait until some more third party tests have been performed and just go test drive the damn thing.

Time to phase out V8's with V6 eco boost.

New Explorer with V4 eco boost will match the power of V6.

"they didnt want anyone killed in this thats why they didnt use toyota"

LMFAO! That's funny right there. I don't understand why it is so hard for some of you to understand. Ford is comparing a 3.5V6 to a 5.3 and 5.7 V8 to prove that with the twin turbo's and direct injection a much smaller V-6 can do the work of the larger V-8. What if Ford test the 5.0-vs-the 5.3 and it spanks it? You gonna say, "yeah, but a, they should have used a 6.2" Geez........

@syrgy
1) Your truck has to have balls first in order to show everyone how big they are. I understand your a ford fan so having an engine that doesn't get destroyed isn't something your used to. -- Ford has just released 4 new motors that- marginally beat or tie other brands existing powerplants.. So safe to say when the new hemi or new Gm motors come out in 2-3 years and your 50-75 HP behind again for 10 more years your response will be????

correct me if I am wrong 5.4l Triton has 315 hp and that was the top gas engine until now-- They left you sitting there for 10 years with That???? Please my friend try to understand how drivers of other brands are not trading their trucks in left and right. Ford has twin turbo's to do what everyone else does naturally.

2.) If you want a good read about turbo's go on an audi forum and look up Turbo engine sludge-- My guess is the Audi engineers are a few steps ahead of fords guys in the turbo deparment and they still have had problems. Look no further then the PSD 6.0L Ford.

3)MPG - I have a 5.7 L Hemi Ram 1500 CC- i get 21-22 on the highway - Of course if we were on this forum looking for gas mileage perhaps we shouldn't be buying things that weight as much as the Titianic. So ford goes the turbo route and has two turbos that are potiential very expensive to repair, clean etc. and everyone else goes to a shut down MDS system and is now adding gears 8spd etc in the future to add MPG's. Hope when you roll over 100k your as proud of the new F150 if it's not so "built ford tuff"

4) You wanna talk about disappointment. Disappointment is watching a bunch of smart guys blindly trust fords "equivalent " miles garbage. Not one of these ecoboosts has been sold - and I don't care what anyone says- MT or PUTC or anyone else who has a new truck for 10 mins can't give you a review about real world ownership. - I think what ford has done here is important because if it works it will open up a new arena of technology in the full size truck market for all brands and I respect their risk taking and their moxy. However you ford guys can't type fast enough to tell us all how reliable and dominant it will be, yet none of you own one. If in 3-5 years this motor is built like a brick **** house- I will be the first one in line to congratulate them. Lets save the awards ceremony for when it acutually acomplishs something important.
Its great to see 9000+ lb tow test's but lets get real if you tow that on a regular basis its time for a 250-2500 - most guys never go over 5-6K If they tow at all.

I have owned an 03 07 Ram and Now own an 11 Ram. I have also had an 05 5.4L Ford. Dodge has weak links im the first to admit it, current transmisson sucks, tie rods on the 07 were junk. All trucks have issues, but you ford boys think
ford never screws anything up. I'd love to see some ford guys admitt the truth- F150 has probs like everyone elses trucks. My F150 was a well built truck - but it had problems also.


Respectfully
The Hogg

@jason2
My friend what ford is doing is trying to get current truck owners to trust and feel comfortable with their new top level powerplant- short of the raptor, rt, etc type trucks.
Their ecoboost is their topshelf workhorse motor for the blue collar guy.
They are trying to prove that a twin turbo is every bit the powerplant that the other major brands work horse motors are.
They are trying to get mr Ford 5.4L triton owner to trust that the ecoboost can handle what everyone else throws at their trucks. This isn't about v6 vs v8- this is about turning perception (v6 is not as strong as v8) and turning it into the reality of ( v6 turbod can handle or beat v8).
These videos are for the masses who have never heard of a turbo or ever thought their truck would have one yet two turbo's.
These tests and video's gives the ford owner something to justify the purchase to their familys and friends and ammo to fire back at other brand owners. nothing more nothing less.

If my Ram makes it up the hill 3 seconds slower, without the risk of blowing turbo's down the road so be it. All of these trucks are about equal. Alot of the choice depends on cost, space needed, where you are in your life, job etc.
3 seconds up a hill with 9k doesn't mean jack to me - you wanna tow 9k go get an f250/2500.
Ford makes a damn good truck- but so does everyone else.
All have strenghts and weakness.

@ Hogg68

1. You should speak for your self dude...have you ever had any engine problems due to a manufacturing defect on an engine ever? I have not...so I dont understand what your saying about not being used to an engine lasting. FYI I have owned one of those famed early triton motors, no issues ever and the only time I EVER had to take it in for maintenance was for a faulty blinker switch. Sorry to burst your bubble on your theory. Infact between all the Fords I have ever owned I have never had any engine problems, they all ran flawless. Granted they were all used except for the brand new Mustang GT the other two(5.4L and 7.3L) had at least 60,000 miles on them and my ford ranger(2.9L V6) had 114,000 miles on it. So like I stated all the motors lasted for me and again sorry to burst your bubble but your theory is flawed. I have also owned a Dodge, infact I bought it last year. It was an '01 with 50,000 miles on it so I thought it would be a good truck and for the most part it was, just as good as my Fords except for the transmission problem and its lack of power...the 5.2L was weak and even though it had a 4:10 rear end it could not get out of its own way. My '99 5.4L could spank that Dodge. Ok on to your theory about how Ford will be behind on the power wars...Well all I can say is that the 5.0L and 3.5L EB are new...there is still alot of tuning to do and just incase you have not hear the Gov is cracking down on gas guzzeling V8's so you better hold on to what you have. Funny thing is that the 5.4L was only rated at about 310hp...but it managed to do the job for years and make the F150 one of the best selling trucks in America so HP is not everything.

And Hogg, Ford is not putting twin turbos on a V8 to compete with other V8's, they are putting twins on a 3.5L V6...two less cylinders and almost half the displacment of the other V8's with as much HP and MORE TQ and a power curve like a diesel...have you ever driven a diesel up a pass? its nice to have that turbo. And correct me if Im wrong but Dodge has left you sitting their with a 4 speed trans for how long...oh thats right you still have it.

2.) What problems about the 6.0L turbo? Have you heard of the common problem with the lines on the Alison tranny breaking in freezing weather? Have you heard about the common overheating problem with the Duramax(LMN or LML...not sure which one). How about the grenading cummins 5.9L...the early ones had an issue with a metal pin migrating out of where ever it belonged and causing potential damage that could really FUBAR that engine. I am failing to see your point about Fords...seems there are issues with all brands not just Fords.


3)Funny how you think I own a Ford...bahahahha I dont anymore. I own a Toyota not a Ford.

4)You know I am Not a Ford "Fan" but I do like that brand just a tiny winy bit more than Dodge and GM. I would own a 5.7L Hemi 1500 or a 6.7L Cummins in a heart beat if I could but I cant...I dont have money flowing out of my pockets like some of the greedy people out their.

And I am not too proud to admit that Ford has had faults in their trucks but I have never had one engine issue on any of the Fords I have ever owned same goes for the Dodge, the engine did its job but a 5.2l v8 ONLY putting out 250 HP to the ground is pathetic, my one year older 5.4L had only .2 more liters and it put out 60 more HP and felt like it had balls compared to the Dodges 5.2L. Again I dont see how Ford has always been behind in HP as you claim it sure beat out that 5.2L V8.

And BTW I dont beleave for one second you get 22 mpg average with city driving. yeah my 7.3L got 25 mpg on the highway and my Mustang GT was doing 32 mpg on the highway as well but even though those numbers are impressive its the average MPGs that really save you money at the pump. so whats your truck get for average not just highway...I bet its not 22.

BTW Hogg I do not usually like it when people nit pick ones opinion but since you started it...well you got what you asked for.

@synergy
Dude, try reading my post again.
And p.s. your comment about dodge owners started it.
Your the one tell us all to grow up etc etc etc.


1) I said 21-22 on HIGHWAY- I never said City try reading it again! average both is about 16-17 mpg

2) I bust my balls everyday to be one for your " GREEDY peope with money flow out of my pockets to own a hemi-
of course I don't know what a brand new mustang Gt costs- I guess they are just giving them away huh?

3) The 5.4L came out around the time of the HEMI thats what I refering to when IM talking power or lack there of in Fords case top motor to top motor.

4.) What problems with the 6.0L PSD dude get a clue- try three years of issue's that are a well know fact --03-05 turbo failures computer problems etc. look it up. - I mean do we need to do the whole ford has problems thing? My old man has had 4 explorers- I don't have the energy for the problems list.

5) If your not to proud to admit Ford has issues then how is my theory flawed?you just proved it with that comment. Ford has problems like everyone else thats what I said--
Im glad you didn't have any problems with your trucks, and I would be willing to bet from most major brands most guys are very happy.

Try re-reading my post and especially from 4 down- stop thinking I just attacked you and actually read it- I just answered your comment about dodge owners. you call it nit picking then fine.

How about this why don't I just tell you that you won the discussion so you don't get all salty, because you can't have any of your comments come into question. do you feel better now?

BTW - whats the point in commenting about the dodge transmission when i just said it "sucks"- I mean did you actually get past the first two lines?

@synergy-
Just a side note - I drive a 6.0L PSD 03 everyday for work- I have in fact driven a desiel up a hill lots of times- but of course I hope your not comparing a desiel and why it has a turbo( basically useless without one in my opinion) - to why ford has decided to use a v6 turbo and not a v8?

synergy not sure I get what you mean about greedy people?
Doesn't a new ford cost about what a new Dodge does?

Maybe I missed something in the back and forth?? Did you mean that if you buy new your a greedy person?

Regards,
Steve

@ Hogg you re read your post...this is what you said

" I understand your a ford fan so having an engine that doesn't get destroyed isn't something your used to"

I find this an attack fyi...

"However you ford guys can't type fast enough "

Same with this one...

"but you ford boys think ford never screws anything up"

Im not a "boy" and I have never said Ford doesnt screw up.

And about that first qouted line...so you are saying that Im used to having a Ford engine that "gets destroyed". Um you say your "not attacking" me B.S. re read your post. and re read my post...I said "from what I read on these posts" key words here dude. I also said "almost all Dodge owners" not All or every but please refer to the previouse sentance again since I was only refering to the Dodge owners who post here and are the one stating they race all the time. And also re read my last post...I did say "greedy" but I did not call you "greedy" nor did I call a Dodge fan greedy. Come on 90% of people are greedy but I never called you greedy...dont read into my post so much. I dont know you well enough to say "your greedy" and you definately dont know mewell enough to assume I own a Ford and that I am "a ford fan so having an engine that doesn't get destroyed isn't something your used to".

Forced induction is forced induction...there are diesels out there that DO NOT use a turbo so do not tell me that I dont know what I am talking about when I say a turbo V6 is similar to a turbo diesel V6...they both rout the exhaust the same way, same turbo design basically, and use an inter cooler...do you really want me to waste more of my time listing the similaraties...? I hope not.

@synergy
LOL man im too tired to type out another long response- why dont' we call her a draw?

By the way I don't mean boy in a degrogitory way Ford boys- just means ford owners..

The Hogg

@ Steve

Sorry if my use of greedy confuses you. I dont mean greedy like the grinch...but in a way it could be seen as that. There are alot of truck owners out there that buy a $55,000 truck and then put 24's with 47"tires and a 16" lift with a loud exhaust and lots of shiny add'ons with a loud sound system...do they really need a $55,000 truck with $25,000 worth of accesories on it...NO they could do just fine with the $35,000 truck but instead they waste money which could be put twards charities...helping people who are on the brink of poverty. Sorry that greedy comment was out of line...what I really meant to say was I do not make enough money to buy a truck like that unlike some people who do have money. I served my country for 6 years in the Airforce and now that I am out its been hard to deal with a $25,000 salary cut basically.

P.S. Hogg I owned three of those vehicles while I was in the military...the Mustang I was just able to aford, I lived paycheck to paycheck trying to make payments on that car but I wanted to enjoy a nice NEW car for once in my life so I went out and made my dream come true. Everything else that I have owned has been financed and "used" and moslty high miles just so you know.

@ Hogg68

lol yeah I need to rest incase Mike post up something new tomorrow and it ends up stirring the big pot for Dodge, Ford, GM, Toyota, and Nissan Fans. lol

@ Synergy
First and foremost Appreciate the service!!!

My other trucks have been used too- this 11 it was a model with 600 miles on it demo dealer found it on a lot out of state still titled new but with rebates and dealer discount , I barely swung the payments. Needed somethign bigger cause just had a kid so CrewCab was a lifesaver and miles on the 07 were pushing 150k so time was not on my side.


.The Hogg

Synergy,
No problem.
just didn't understand what you meant. I agree about the 55k +25 trucks. I think price of trucks has gotten crazy anyways. I would love a desiel just for longevity alone, but man who has that kind of money?

Side bar here- how is your 7.3L holding up?
I really would love to shoot for a used desiel.

Regards,
Steve

@Hogg

I hear ya...enjoy that Ram I really like the new style.

@ synergy
I will be enjoying it for probably a hell of a lot longer then I want to LOL- Bought the lifetime warranty gonna got to 250k -300k undoubtly by then the same truck will cost 10 times as much. Thats the problem with new now I'm married to it lol

what toyota do you have? your impressions of it? My bro is looking at tundra.
The Hogg



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