Toyota Wants Hybrid Technology in Tundras
Toyota will aggressively push forward its hybrid technology in both cars and trucks, according to Automotive News.
As reported in late August, Ford and Toyota have formed a partnership to develop hybrid technology for their full-size pickup trucks mostly because of strict EPA fuel economy regulations coming in 2025. Both automakers said they agreed to have some kind of product for sale by the end of the decade, but it looks like Toyota might be thinking about delivering something to market before that deadline.
At the Tokyo Motor Show, Takeshi Uchiyamada, Toyota's global research and development chief, said the automaker is somewhat behind in direct injection and advanced transmissions because of the company's commitment to hybrid technology; however, other partnerships recently announced — namely a memorandum of cooperation with BMW regarding diesel technology, among other things — could help close the gap.
Next year, Toyota expects to finish a prototype hybrid pickup system it is developing with Ford, Uchiyamada said. Toyota hopes to use the system in the Tundra full-size pickup, but the technology could also be applied to the smaller Tacoma or other full-size SUVs. Of course, Ford will also use the technology in its large pickups.
There's no doubt Ford and Toyota are pushing up their timelines in response to the new Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups due to debut in 2014. Likewise, we've heard speculators say a new family of powertrains — including a next-generation two-mode hybrid system — is likely to debut with the new platform as well.
In the meantime, hybrid technologies look like the easiest way for all the big truck makers to chip away at more aggressive fuel economy requirements coming in the next decade.
(note: the photos below are not representative of the exact products Toyota and Ford are working on but do represent other products in the industry related to hybrid technologies.)
Comments
Could this be the third engine for the Tacoma we keep hearing rumors about or a diesel?
A Ford and Toyota partnership almost seems sacriligious.
give us Diesel....
Unlike the GM hybrids, this one will be legit and REAL!
Sounds like a promising partnership. Ford knows trucks and Toyota knows hybrids. And the Germans know a thing or two about fuel efficient diesels.
It was just a matter of time for Toyota to take what they stole, I mean learned, from Ford and raced out of the gates. I hope that Ford does not get burned by Toyota like Suzuki is getting burned by Volkswagen.
I would buy a Chevrolet/G.M.C. (Daimler-Chrysler/B.M.W.) hybrid before I ever bought a Ford/Toyota hybrid pickup.
@Buy American Or Say Bye To America!,
Uhhh, what are you talking about?
How many patents does Toyota have on Hybrid technology? You would be amazed...
Ford got PERMISSION from Toyota to use Toyota's hybrid technology for their Escape hybrid and I think Fusion...
I remember the Prius debuting at the Chicago Auto Show back in the 1990's, where was Ford then?
Here is where a diesel could be really superb. Running the
diesel at a relatively low rpm in its sweet spot will make
for better longevity and economy.
The only downside is the $8000 premium for diesel
added to the extra cost of the hybrid would make for
an extra shock to the sticker shock.
oxi, once again your "facts" are WRONG. Ford did not get permission to use Toyota's hybrid technology, Ford developed their OWN hybrid technology (with their own money, not having everything funded by the Japanese government like Toyota).
But a zealot like you wouldn't want anything to do with the truth if it doesn't glorify Yota, now would you?
@David w - I agree that a diesel engine would be more suitable for a hybrid but a small V6 diesel isn't going to cost 8,000. I doubt that you'd see a hybrid 6.7 L PowerStroke in a pickup, but maybe in a 4500 or larger commercial application. European V6 diesels in current available in USA SUV's average arounf 3,100 dollars. If you coupled a hybrid system with a diesel you would be looking at a huge price premium. It would only be financially viable for commercial use. Anyone else buying it would be doing it for the placebo/ego effect of saving the world.
European SUV's available in USA
Mercedes Benz ML350
gasser - price $48,990
3.5 L V6, 302 HP/273 lb/ft torque 22 mpg Hwy.
diesel - price $50,490
3 L V6, 240 hp/455 lb/ft torque 27 mpg highway
Price premium over gas - $1,500
MPG advantage - 5 mpg
Mercedes Benz R350
gasser - price $52,690
3.5 L V6 302 hp/273 lb/ft torque 21 mpg highway
diesel - price $53,840
3.0 L V6 210 hp 400 lb/ft torque 23 mpg highway
price premium over gas - $1,150
MPG advantage - 2 mpg
Mercedes Benz GL350 - only available in a diesel
3.0 V6 210 hp 398 lb/ft torque 0 60 mph 9.1 seconds
VW Touareg
gasser - price $42,975
3.0 L V6 280 HP 265 lb/ft torque 23 mpg highway
diesel - price $46,475
3.0 V6 225 hp 406 lb.ft torque 28 mpg highway
price premium over gas - $3,500
MPG advantage - 5 mpg
Audi Q7
gasser - price $46,250
3L V6 280 hp 295 lb/ft torque 22 mpg highway
diesel - price 51,450
3 L V6 225 hp 406 lb/ft torque 25 mpg highway
price premium over gas - $5,200
MPG advantage - 3 mpg
BMW X5
gasser - price $47,500
3 L V6 265 hp 300 lb/ft torque 23 mpg highway
diesel - price $51,800
3 L V6 265 hp 425 lb/ft torque 26 mpg highway
price premium over gas - $4,300
MPG advantage - 3 mpg
The average price premium for diesel engines in this group $3,130 dollars.
The mpg advantage averages 3.6 mpg.
@oxi
I'm curious...I know how much you love the Tacoma...what are your thoughts on the Tundra?
@everyone
Too bad they killed or at least shelved the Toyota/Scion ABAT concept. The hybrid concept may work wonders in a Tacoma...preferably I'd prefer diesel. I know RAM was proposing a hybrid model for the 1500, but since the Dodge Durango hybrid was a flop, all Ram Hybrid talk sort of faded.
"The two companies signed a patent-sharing deal in 2005 that allowed Ford to license Toyota’s Synergy Hybrid system for the Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner hybrids. In exchange, Toyota gained access to Ford’s diesel and direct-injection engine technology."
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/08/ford-toyota-team-up-on-hybrid-pickups/
Your the one who is wrong!
I have no thoughts on the Tundra, it's just another one of this huge parade floats known as full-size pickups...
Parade floats is the huge sheet metal of the pickups with such little tires, a parade float...
I only prefer the Tundra's of Johnny Greaves and the late Rick Huesman, those 900 hp machines are the shyt!
I used to work on the team of Rod Millen when he ran the first short-coursed Tundra in Wisconsin. Great team with a great driver.
Other than that, not much I can say about the Tundra except everyone I know that drives one, loves it...
@oxi
Ford and Toyota together will work well because Fords now CEO Alan Mulally use to be president of Boeing Commercial Airplanes. While at Boeing he, studied Toyota processes concerning business and manufacturing and introduced some of the Toyota ideas into Boeing...He also drove a Lexis. It doesn't surprise me he has teamed up with them.
Sorry but you really are wrong.They did share a agreement on hybrid technology in which toyota holds more patents but the systems used by ford were not a toyota system.
@oxi,
http://www.green.autoblog.com/2009/07/03/once-more-with-feeling-ford-does-not-use-the-toyota-hybrid-syst/
@Oxi Rod and his brother Steve Millen are a great product from New Zealand. Rod and Rhys(the son) go back to do the Targa New Zealand, every year.
@gopher agree. Toyota is now developing a family of hybrid cars. Still Hybrids are not that popular here.
Since Christmas is close, I just had a thought......
Hybrids........... adult toys............ batteries included...... ;)
@Lou- funny how the Q7/Tuareg and ML/R don't see the same economy gains, eventhough they're switching from/to the same engines. 23 Highway is REALLY bad for a diesel minivan. It will be interesting to see what the Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel option will cost, and where else they make it available (Ram 1500, please)
@oxi- so after bargaining for Ford's direct injection and Diesel tech, Toyota today asserts that
".....is somewhat behind in direct injection and advanced transmissions because of the company's commitment to hybrid technology; however, other partnerships recently announced — namely a memorandum of cooperation with BMW regarding diesel technology, " What a value, what a deal.
@Billy- It wasn't so much that the Durango Hybrid flopped, as that the whole vehicle was cancelled minutes after the hybrid model roled out. I think the A-Bat isn't quite dead yet. Scion is still interested in doing a pick-up (lets NOT call it a truck). Toyotas C-group platform, on which the Rav4 is based, is due for replacement, and could e made to accomodate a little open-bed vehicle.
@gopher- 'Lexis be dancin over on 8mile.
Nice catch Frank!
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/More-post-crash-battery-fires-apf-2101608852.html
So what happened to the hydrolic hybrids that PU.com said Ford was coming out with a couple years that was going to get 50-60 MPG?
Been saying to my wife for the last few years about the potential dangers of having so much potential energy stored in batteries that they're using in hybrids.
And gasoline doesn't have potetial energy?
ford and toyota shake in their boots, scare of next gen chevy trucks hahaha to damn funny
All crap. Gas should just be cheaper. China got along just fine for 1000 years with horses and rickshaws, they can do it for another 1000 years. We need that oil.
Benchimus-
Amen, brother!
It takes Ford and Toyota together to even try and keep up with GM. They are worried about what GM is coming out with in 2014. Good luck! Ha Ha Ha!
Yes, I am worried of GM, worried they will go bankrupted, again!
Friggin Losers!!!!
@Greg - Toyota and Ford trying to keep up with GMC? That is the funniest thing I've read since you said you put 900,000 miles on 2 different Chevies with only a shock adsorber change.
If that were true, why did your son buy a Dodge?
Profit due to Toyota (Yen) is on a downturn
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16105566
Bench and Buy American: Sorry fellas, economics sh!ts down you guys throats on this one, no matter how entitled you feel like you are.
The Chi-Coms can afford that oil too, so guess what? They buy. Its all a numbers game that will continue to progress every year. China is putting online, in the next couple of years, enough power plants to power the UK, I wonder what will be used as the fuel for the power plants? Since China has all of our widget manufacturing now, looks as if they need your oil more than you.....all thanks to our wonderful "American" corps.
Can I get an "AMEN" from my deluded American counterparts.... lol (j/k)
@David,
Read the headline again!
Thai floods and earthquakes...
"The Escape Hybrid is a gasoline-electric hybrid powered version of the Escape, launched in the U.S. in 2004, to offset the pollution resulting from non-hybrid SUV use. Built in Kansas City, Missouri, it was the first hybrid SUV to hit the market. The Ford Escape Hybrid was the first American-built hybrid and the first hybrid vehicle from an American automaker, joined by the Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra Hybrids during the same model year. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, the first generation Ford Escape Hybrid is 70% more efficient than the regular Escape. The Mercury Mariner Hybrid is a rebadged version of the Escape Hybrid, sold by Ford's Mercury marque. It features revised front-end styling and a more luxurious interior. The Mariner sits above the Escape in the Ford-Mercury-Lincoln hierarchy."
Off Wikipedia. Sounds more like Ford consulted than got a ready made hybrid system from Toyota.
Red_4x4-
If you want to surrender U.S.A. supremacy, and embrace foreign takeover, that is your prerogative. I for one still believe in the U.S.A.! I would not live here if I did not.
Not surrendering anything Buy American! Sorry you took it that way.
Just facing reality that there is a faction in the billions of people now moving into the middle class worldwide, and they want the same lifestyle you have. You are going to PAY MORE to sustain that lifestyle, sorry man. Just economics. I still believe in the USA as well, has nothing to do with surrendering anything sir.
Red_4x4-
My apologies for jumping the gun. Sometimes I leap too fast to defend this great nation. I tend to take things personal when comments are made against, or not in favor of, the United States of America. It pains me to see what has taken place over the last 25+ years.
@keith,
Read into the Escape, it has more foreign parts than a Toyota Camry!
ABCNews ran a special earlier this year on the subject, the Camry was the more "American" vehicle in fact one of the most "American" vehicles in the U.S. market!
@keith,
"Toyota and Honda Still Tops; GM Moves Up
Despite stagnant sales, the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord remain atop this year's American-Made Index. Falling domestic parts content axed Ford's popular Escape and Focus"
"So why isn't Detroit fielding more entrants?
Blame the parts content and assembly locations. Some mainstream nameplates, from Detroit's full-size pickups to its popular compacts, are built stateside but have lower domestic content. Others — Chrysler's minivans, the Ford Fusion, the Chevy Camaro — are assembled in Canada or Mexico. In 2010, Automotive News reported that the U.S. auto industry produced some 4.4 million cars from U.S. nameplates in the two neighboring countries. That's a sizable number, given the same industry built nearly 8 million passenger vehicles in the U.S. over the same period.
It's cheaper to build in Mexico, and thanks to 1994's North American Free Trade Agreement, it comes with little penalty. Labor rates account for less than 10 percent of overall vehicle cost, Fini says. But within that, the difference is significant. In 2010, Canadian autoworkers averaged $38.77 an hour in U.S. dollars, including benefits. Their U.S. counterparts averaged $33.46. Mexican autoworkers, in contrast, made just $3.75 an hour, IHS Automotive found."
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0611
Red 4x4- I disagree. I still think I, personally, need that oil more. Ching chong can ride a bike back and forth to the rice fields. Seems like its time I build that time machine and go back to better times...
@Benchimus - China's middle class is comparable in size to the entire population of the USA. As red 4x4 pointed out, those people want the same lifestyle we have. They have money and we don't. Look at USA debt. China owns a large portion of that debt. The only way the USA can compete with China (government or citizens) is to borrow more money. If Europe is any indication, that train ride is going to come to a crashing end. China doesn't need to borrow money.
If it comes down to a battle for oil based on cold hard cash, USA doesn't stand much of a chance. Unless you want to mortgage your great, great, great grandchildren.
It is what it is.
I'm not slagging any country.
Reality sucks.
Oxi's post has pointed out - our politicians and corporations has sold out the "unskilled" labour portion of the middle class so the rest with money can afford (for the time being) to buy the cheep junk we need to maintain our lifestyles.
How did a topic about hybrids turn into a discussion about geopolitic's and/or socio-economics ?
@Lou,
Because we are talking about green vehicles so naturally social-economic will surface right?
@oxi - more of a case of the story mentioning a US company and a foreign car company forming a partnership. The "them versus us/U.S." arguement was bound to surface.
Lou, you make some pretty thoughtful posts--I am astounded that you do not also own a Tundra... . ;)
I have only driven one hybrid vehicle--a Ford Fusion--and it was the most soul-sucking experience ever. It did, howevver, get good MPG.
I love my Tundra, but I would easily take an inexpensive, reliable, hybrid system if it impoved MPG enough.
Also, given the Tundra is made in the USA (the Fusion is hecho in Mexico), I would hope it would further increase manufacturing in the US by making the hybrid systems here as well.
@Dav -
My wife owns a Sinna, does that count?
The Tundra was my second choice. I got too good of a deal on a Ford.
oops, meant Sienna
@ buy American
as normal your post has ZERO facts. But the fact remains that Toyota licensed the use of their Gen 1 hybrid technology to ford so they could develop a system. What ford did was take a system that used hybrid technology very modestly and stretch its capabilities closer to a failure point. This is why ford has problems with their hybrid systems and toyota doesnt. Your just flat wrong.
@ oxymoron read my above paragraph, your totally lost!
People, The oil companies don't want us to have diesels. They want us to be happy with 22-24mpg hybrids.
Nissan, here's your chance.
It's amazing ford would ruin their quality by doing anything with a junk dealer like toyota. Maybe ford wants 60 recalls on each of their vehicles like toyota. Maybe ford found out there are more morons that buy toyotas than fords. Regardless, neither will come close to the only true two mode hybred built by GM.
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