2013 Ram 1500 Powertrain: Deep Dive
(Editor's note--It's not often that a completely new or significantly redesigned pickup truck explodes onto the U.S. market. But that what the 2013 Ram did when introduced at the 2012 NYIAS. We knew this truck had a lot of meaning to Ram Truck, but we're guessing this truck is likely to cause quite a stir at both Ford and General Motors, not to mention Nissan and Toyota. And it's for that reason we're taking a deeper look into the vehicle and its new technology, broken into several discreet stories, each focused on an aspect of the truck that has been recreated. No doubt you've seen and read quite a few stories that do a good job of hitting the highlights, but there is more. And that's what we're attempting to bring you here in this series. If you're not interested, then don't read it. But if you'd like to know more about the truck likely to change and push the tragectory of what kinds of pickups we'll see in the near and far future, feel free to read on.)
Quite possibly the biggest news the 2013 Ram 1500 is the replacement of the entry-level 3.7-liter V-6 engine with the more powerful and efficient Pentastar 3.6-liter V-6. In addition to this all-new engine for Ram, the half-ton truck will be offered with a segment-first ZF eight-speed transmission called TorquFlite 8. The new transmission will also be offered as an option for the 5.7L Hemi V-8 offering and standard on the Pentastar. The new-for-2012 six-speed 65RFE transmission will be standard for the older 4.7L V-8, and optionally available for those who prefer to keep the center-console auto-stick option for the 5.7L.
New V-6
The Pentastar engine has seen great success with other Chrysler vehicles, and it looks to have some impressive numbers behind it, especially when compared with the aged 3.7-liter V-6 it replaces. We’re told the new engine produces 305 horsepower and 269 pounds-feet of torque; that’s 42 percent more hp and 13 percent more torque. (The previous V-6 made 215 hp and 235 pounds-feet of torque). Ram is reporting the new V-6 setup will go from zero to 60 mph 3 full seconds faster with the Pentastar engine.
Although final numbers have not been released, Ram says the combination will be the fuel economy leader in the segment and provide more than 20 percent better gas mileage in equivalent packages.
For those who may not be familiar with the new Pentastar engine (it already has seen great success in both the Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee), it uses a 60-degree all-aluminum block and head with integrated exhaust manifolds, dual overhead cams, cast aluminum pistons, six-bolt main bearings and forged connecting rods. High-flow, tumbled intake ports and a 10.2:1 compression is all controlled by a large engine control module for the best balance of fuel, power and refinement. There are no twin turbos or cylinder deactivation, however.
Despite the relatively high compression ratio, the Pentastar is designed to run on 87 octane fuel and is E85 capable. The powerplant includes variable valve timing with dual-independent cam phasing, providing nearly 90 percent of the engine’s peak torque from 1,800 to 6,400 rpm.
The increased power means that Ram now can offer the V-6 option with four-wheel drive and with the crew cab, neither of which was offered with the previous V-6.
TorqueFlite 8
The new 8HP45 and 8HP70 transmissions will be offered across the board among all three engines. The lighter-duty eight-speed will be the only match for the V-6 engine, and its torque capacity is 332 pounds-feet. The heavier-duty eight-speed has a torque capacity up to 515 pounds-feet.
The new TorqueFlite 8 doubles the number of gears the previous V-6 trans offered, with an impressive bandwidth of gears, starting with an extremely low 1st gear at 4.71:1; then 2nd, 3.14:1; 3rd, 2.10:1; 4th, 1.67:1; 5th, 1.29:1; and sixth; 1.00:1. There are two overdrives with 7th at 0.84:1 and 8th at 0.67:1. The Reverse gear is a strong 3.30:1. The eight-speed is standard with the Pentastar and an option for the 4.7- and 5.7-liter V-8s. Standard transmission for the V-8s will be the 65RFE six-speed.
The eight-speed transmission offers a segment first e-shift rotary dial; it’s an easy hand-reach on the center stack. The dial replaces both the column and center-console automatic stick shift. The on-dash dial is easily identified and simple to use, with settings for Park, Reverse, Neutral and Drive. If this system looks familiar, the electronic selector is already used in some Class 6, 7 and 8 big-rigs.
This new program allows for quick “blind” transitions from Drive to Reverse and back again for rocking out of snow or mud, or to get out quickly from busy parking lots or work sites. The new transmission does offer manual shifting on the front right (at 3 o’clock) part of the steering wheel, where there are “shift –“ and “shift +” buttons. The detents also allow the driver to lock out certain upper gears, if needed, to allow the transmission to hold rpms at the highest gear for situations like heavy hauling or towing.
The electronic transmission has more than 40 different shift maps as well as a learning program that can move back and forth depending on various inputs from the entire vehicle. The software also takes variables into account, such as engine torque gradients, kickdown events, longitudinal and lateral acceleration, hill detection, friction detection, downshifting history and shift mapping over time. Other parameters integrated into the computer include vehicle speed, stability control and temperature. The idea is that all shifting results are tuned to the proper requirements needed for just about any driving situation.
Another benefit of the extra gears and their extra-wide ratios is that the axle gears can be lowered for lighter weight and smaller size, and to allow for even better fuel efficiency. Although four gear ratios will be available across the Ram 1500 lineup, most of the trucks will have either 3.21:1 or 3:55: 1 ring-and-pinion gears. More aggressive gearing, such as 3.92:1 and 4.10:1 ratios, are likely to be used, but we would expect only on limited performance offers, such as an R/T or yet-to-be-named version.
The V-8s
Both V-8s will continue to use the existing 4.7-liter V-8 and the 5.7-liter Hemi V-8 (90-degree cast-iron block, aluminum heads), and both will come standard with the 65RFE six-speed transmission, with the new eight-speed an option on most trim packages.
As we mentioned earlier, the 4.7-liter is no longer the base engine for 4x4s or crew-cab models; both will now be available with the V-6. The Hemi V-8 will continue to offer the four-cylinder deactivation Eco mode that can offer between a 5-percent and 20-percent fuel advantage, depending on driving habits. And don’t forget about the Hemi’s deceleration fuel-shut-off feature that is specifically designed to help save gas.
Although fuel economy numbers have not been released yet, we would expect both V-8s to offer incremental fuel economy gains with their new transmission. Previous EPA gas mileage ratings for the two V-8s with two-wheel drive were 14/19 mpg city/highway with the 4.7-liter and 14/20 mpg for 5.7-liter. The four-wheel-drive ratings were 13/18 mpg with the 4.7-liter and 13/19 mpg with the 5.7-liter. We would assume that unless Ram can drastically improve the fuel economy numbers for the smaller V-8, the 4.7 will remain the lowest take-rate engine of the family. We assume that’s why most Ram 1500s -- as much as 80 percent, we’re told -- are sold with the Hemi.
Transfer Cases
Both four-wheel-drive options look to be carryover models from Borg-Warner. The first is the part-time two-speed 44-45 transfer case that will be available with all three engines and multiple trim packages. Selector choices include 2WD, N, 4WD LOCK, 4WD LOW. The second Borg-Warner transfer case option is the 44-44 “on-demand” system that allows for an “auto” mode that can be selected at any time and will adapt to all road conditions. Selector choices for this model inlcudes 2WD, 4WD Auto, N, 4WD LOCK, 4WD LOW. This four-wheel drive system will only be offered with the Hemi V-8.
The setup in the part-time system is a rotary dial on the dash (will usually be mated with the 65RFE), while the full-time-capable selector uses a set of push button settings just below the 8-speed transmission’s knob. To help keep the driver informed of exactly what the tires, suspension and transfer case are doing, there is a dedicated information screen (in the 7-inch screen space between the speedometer and tachometer) to communicate all the incoming data and settings.
We should note that neither of the transfer case options are connected with the air suspension option so all the settings available for the 4WD air suspension Ram will be available for the 2WD air suspension Ram.
The powertrain setups will undoubtedly be a huge improvement for the Ram half-ton and possibly help it gain market share in its fiercely competitive segment. Which, of course, means neither Ford nor GM will remain standing still as a result of these announcements.
Comments
I remember years ago chrysler reps saying that they will forgo 6 and 7 speeds for the most part and be one of the first with a lineup of mostly 8 speeds seems to be correct. New pentastar is also a huge improvment now lets see a new small v8 to get rid of the 4.7 Ive loved the past two 4.7s ive owned combines 250k miles on them no motor issues ever (an 02 dakota and an 05 ram) when it came out it was a great motor but now in comparison to other makes technology and power outputs and mpgs and even chryslers other motors it is very lacking
the way I see it, the new RAM 1500 is going to keep people in the market for a new truck in 2013 on hold until the final details are revealed
both Ford and GM will see sales problems if they don't come up with a mind blowing truck for 2013
Is nice to see that even big V8 engines are getting great mpg's these days and if they develop an HD version for the 2500 and 3500 I can see the big guys outselling the competition and maybe even taking the second spot :)
I was waiting for the new Chevy/GMC 1500 but this RAM will do it for me! I mean...what will GM have to come up with to beat the F150 EcoBoost and this RAM?
awesome news here for Ram, but as to the comments about mind blowing and going to blow away ford and Gm I disagree. I simply think Dodge has caught up to Ford and edged passed GM. Loyal GM owners will stay with GM and so on for the other two, there is still the reliability issue for any Chrysler product in my opinion, let the count down begin towards a reliable product ! Prove me wrong Ram
I think this will certainly make people in the market for a new truck take a longer look at Ram, well the unbiased people which does account for a large amount of people. Don't forget GM is releasing a new truck and Ford won't sit around twiddling their thumbs - Ford has become and maintained the leadership with alot of hard work and won't sit around and let that go away very easily...
what will GM have to come up with to beat the F150 EcoBoost and this RAM?
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GM will have an all new truck instead of a refresh, bigger crewcab like the F-150, EB is #1 now but that won't be forever, real leafsprings vs coil springs, more weight loss and greater mpg, all new V6 and V8 engines instead of just a new V6 and updated V8, DI across the board, more towing/payload, GM is spending big bucks on the interiors for the Silverado and Sierra, etc. It is not that hard to beat this Ram at all.
1500's debut in second quarter 2013 as 2014's. HD's debut second half of 2014 as 2015's
Continuing: more cargo room inside and in the bed, more of the features that matter like mpg, class leading capability, rumored manstep with a new twist, more.
Ram came up with a nice refresh to tide them over til they can update their trucks again completely. It will be no match against the all new next gen trucks from Chevy and GM.
what will GM have to come up with to beat the F150 EcoBoost and this RAM?
Nothing. Just more V6 timing chain issues like my wifes pile of Garbage Acadia I have sitting in the garage that's motor has been removed twice in 80k miles. It was my first GMC and my Last. It's an oil leaking, timing chain slinging, cheaply built piece of junk. This whole vehicle is a penny pinched, nickel and dimed nightmare. If we hadn't got a good deal on it I wouldn't have let her have it in the first place. The Explorer was just too old at the time for me to justify the purchase and I didn't like the looks of the Traverse nor the Durango. Two more months of payments and it's going straight to the Ford dealer where it will be forever replaced with an Explorer. I've Never had to deal with the garbage on my Ford truck that we've dealt with on that stupid GMC.
Plan on SIDI gas engines across the board with a few new displacements. The 6.2 goes to the HD line. New 5.5l displaces similar hp/tq as the current 6.2 for the 1500 line but with mpg in the mid twenties.
A crew cab interior with REAL room (instead of the crap room Ram has).
Load flat flooring.
A 1500 crew with a REAL 6'6" box (instead of a 6'4" box - Fiat short chaned Ram buyers a couple inches).
E-Steer throughout.
Chevy My Link infotainment.
Refined interior materials.
Need I say more?
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f22/must-haves-2014-silverado-sierra-109412/index16.html
@Dean
Well, it just happened. Ford is not a leader anymore in my opinion, but RAM. Egoboost won't cut it. Nothing sounds like V8 HEMI.
So the V6 will be available in 4wd and in the Crew Cab- will it actually be available in a 4wd Crew Cab(shouldn't be too heavy, as a V6 Durango can weigh as much)
We can only assume the take rate on the V6 will increase drastically. IIRC, The part-time t-case was supposed to be combined with a conventional shift lever- I think I would prefer that. I'm not convinced about the ergonomics of the shift knob, especially When maneuvering in tight spaces. I can use the column shifter w/o looking- I doubt I can manage the same with a round knob.
V6 and V8 need direct injection
I've Never had to deal with the garbage on my Ford truck that we've dealt with on that stupid GMC.
@Pat, and That's exactly why they are now and forever more will be 'G'overnment 'M'otor 'C'ompany. I would take a GMC if it was free.
It's been said here before but I'm saying it again. Dodge is going to overtake Chevy by the end of this year and Chevy doesn't have a chance to regain the #2 spot IMO. It will be another case of too little too late. The last great Chevy truck was the GMT400 and that was done what, 14 years ago?? They've had nothing but Ugly cheaply built crap ever since. When's the last time Chevy had a tucked away frame and SFA like Dodge and Ford have? 25 years ago?? They've shot themselves in the foot stepping over dollars to save pennies for far too long. They've lost decades of their loyal customers and rightfully so. They keep foolishly wasting money on two trucks instead of just building one good Chevrolet. By the end of 2012 Ford will still be #1, Dodge will be #2 and Toyota will be #3. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Nissan come up as #4 eventually and knock Chevy out of that spot too. We built our company on Chevrolet trucks for over 40 years. Every truck we have on file now is a Ford.
Ram has the best interior, exterior, ride quality, mpg, warranty, technology, and motors for 2013. A half ton truck doesn't require 4 engine choices. One great V-6 and V-8 are plenty. Even with the 3.21 rear end Ram equals Fords overall ratio with a 3.73. Towing, hauling, and MPG with the Hemi will (no pun intended) blow away that blow hard V-6 Ecoboost. Let's be honest we would all choose a V-8 over a turbo V-6 with the same MPG and that's what Ram will deliver for 2013. Turbos have no place in the truck market. Show me a turbo motor on any car with 100,000 miles on it that runs well much less one that been used in a truck. The 3.7 V-6 and 5.0 V-8 are really the only strong choices from Ford. The 6.2 is a ancient gas guzzling dinosaur. Well see what kind of quantum leap GM has in store for 2014 as for now they are D.O.A. As for Nissan and Toyota save your money and give up now the truck market belongs to the red, white and blue.
Until its released its pointless to post on what GM is going to be offering. As the saying goes "talk is cheap".
@ moparman,
I too had 2 4.7's since 2002 in a Ram 1500 and one in a Grand Cherokee both had over 200,000 problem free miles.
I'd say keep the 4.7 it has 310 hp and 330 torque,your old 05 4.7 has 235 hp and 295 torque,big difference..From 08-now the 4.7 is a decent performing engine mid 7 sec range 0-60 vs mid 9-10 with your old 05 4.7.
The 3.6 V-6 has 305 hp but the torque is only 269 and at much higher revs,so you really have to put your foot into it,so the 4.7 will out run the 3.6 and gas mileage will probably be close,as well the Hemi still probably gets the same mpg as the 6 and 4.7...HEMI is the best choice..Guess they will wait and see which engine sells the best,3.6/ or the 4.7 and if the 4.7 doesnt sell,they will have the 3.6 or HEMI.
Just saying ,as I have a base model 09 310 h.p 4.7 Ram 1500 for work (and use it hard) and its a great truck,now the 6 is the base engine,so I will have to pay more for the 4.7 or HEMI most likely now as I dont like 6 bangers.My wife drives our new 12 Ram 1500 Sport Crew Cab Hemi (wish I would of waited for the 2013 8spd Hemi)
This truck is a direct warning shot at Ford and GM. They have dropped a nuke on the entire truck industry. Ram's relentless improvements since 2009 are paying huge dividends. They smell the blood in the water with Silverado, it's only a matter of time now. This truck may be the final nail in the Silverados #2 spot coffin.
Looks promising. The little v6 should be inexpensive and good compromise between fuel economy and power/torque. I'd guess a 20% improvement would give at least 24mpg hwy.
GM and Ford don't seem able get out of their way of making brick-shaped pickups.
The new bot/anti-spam verification step is a pain in the ass!!! Now it takes several attempts to guess WTF the gibberish is.
I will be sticking with my Fords! I am wondering why didnt the Ram come with a twin turbo v6 this time around i love that engine in the f150 most of the new trucks i see in Medicine Hat Alberta is the new eco boost v6 f150 they are selling like crazy !!! And ppl in this Canadian Province love there brand new trucks the Ram should have came with more engine choices its just the same old same old !!! chevy and the ram are both junk
This truck is a direct warning shot at Ford and GM. They have dropped a nuke on the entire truck industry. Ram's relentless improvements since 2009 are paying huge dividends. They smell the blood in the water with Silverado, it's only a matter of time now. This truck may be the final nail in the Silverados #2 spot coffin.
I'm getting really sick and tired of the reliability talk regarding Chrysler too. This is a complete misconception and has been thoroughly banished since the Fiat merger. The same goes for the interior issues of the past. It's inconceivable to think they do not posess the best in class interiors. Ram further improved on that notion with this truck.
Another thing people fail to realize is that the ecoboost is a maxed out engine essentially. There's not much room for improvement. It's already twin turboed. Honestly it doesn't even get that impressive mpg numbers especially for the fact that it is small V6 and WILL have reliability issues in a truck. Ram has the right idea with making the tried and true powerhouse known as the HEMI continuously more fuel efficient.
The great thing about these vast amounts of improvements on the Ram is that this is a mid model refresh. I can't even fathom their potential on an all new redesigned model expected in 2015. Ram is hungry and the Silverado is looking mighty tasty right now. Look for Ram to sink its teeth in when this beast goes on sale.
The 2013 Ram 1500 will be the #1 truck to buy... until the 2014 Nissan Titan CRD arrives with it's I-4 Cummins turbo-diesel under the hood. Then the world will see why the Big 3 are morons for ignoring the obvious: diesel is superior.
What I like about this engine is that even though the peak HP numbers are at around 5K RPM the torque rises quickly to around 250 ft/lb at 1800 RPM and stays there. The real world driving range of 1700 to 2500 RPM will show a considerable kick in seat compared to the old engine.
@ RAM-MAN-This truck is a direct warning shot at Ford and GM. They have dropped a nuke on the entire truck industry. Ram's relentless improvements since 2009 are paying huge dividends. They smell the blood in the water with Silverado, it's only a matter of time now. This truck may be the final nail in the Silverados #2 spot coffin.
I agree, and I am a Ford guy.For the longest time I was going to replace my ranger with an F150, but now... Who knows. I have 2 years to go until my Wife's car is paid for. As long as Ram continues to get better I might end up with a Ram, especially if it doesn't lose the price advantage. Fords are not cheap at all. I don't know if GM can come up with anything to match Ford or RAM at this point...
@Tim, there's nothing wrong with turbos. They are in practically every single diesel engine out there today, from tractors and dozers, to a Volkswagon Jetta. Not to mention turboprop and jet airplanes and helicopters. Just sayin. I only wish Ram had announced a turbo for the new 1500, on a Cummins.
Uncle Bud, I was specifically taking about gas motors. My bad for assuming we all knew the EB was a gas motor. Of corse a turbo is synonymous with a diesel as it increases the longevity of the motor. However the opposite is true with a turbo gas motor the turbo decreases the longevity of the motor.
This truck is a direct warning shot at Ford and GM. They have dropped a nuke on the entire truck industry. Ram's relentless improvements since 2009 are paying huge dividends. They smell the blood in the water with Silverado, it's only a matter of time now. This truck may be the final nail in the Silverados #2 spot coffin.
@Ram-Man, 100% correct. The Silverado is done for. Frankly, that means Chevrolet is done for in my book. Take it a step further and you'll see GM is done for as Chevrolet and the Silverado in particular pay all the bills and make their stock even worth owning. They'll be stuck dumping Buicks (or I mean rebadged Opels from that failing Opel company) at firesale pricing to the Chinese just to keep the RenCen doors open. Time for Dodge to take on Ford. Chevy was easy. Ford will be a fight.
@Ram-Man, 100% correct. The Silverado is done for. Frankly, that means Chevrolet is done for in my book. Take it a step further and you'll see GM is done for as Chevrolet and the Silverado in particular pay all the bills and make their stock even worth owning.
Chevrolet would be kicking Dodge's ass if it wasn't for GMC holding them back. Held back on body design, held back on interiors, held back on options, held back on the money spent on the Silverado because we have to have that 'other' truck. You Dodge guys would be in serious trouble if GMC were gone because GM would be Forced to build 1 world class machine in the Chevrolet Silverado. Even Ford would be screwed and that's a Fact. Man do I HATE GMC and that stupid girly bling truck Sierra.
@Tim, a turbo doesn't increase the longevity of a diesel engine any more than it decreases the longevity of a gas motor. A tubocharger is a totally independent component that has a sole purpose of providing more air to the engine. That's it. Diesel engines simply last longer by nature of their design.
@ AmericanChevrolet:
"Even Ford would be screwed and that's a Fact."
Wow, first off none of your crazed OPINION can be considered a "fact".
Little do you know apparently, the only company who was held back for a decade was Chrysler during the Diamler merger which is well known and documented. By the way GM is really stumbling since they have received there bail outs while Chrysler is flourishing at a rate faster then any other car company and that's a FACT.
Second of all your crazy to believe that and I have a hunch that all you GM fan boys clamoring for the "new" 2014 trucks are going to be disappointed. You'll be lucky if it can compete with the mid model refreshed 2013 Ram.
Even if they do produce a formidable opponent for Ram in 2014, they will just blow your doors off again when they redesign the Ram in 2015. I'm sure Ram will improve on something again in 2014 even continuing there relentless improvement. They've made it completely obvious that they're not just out to beat GM but they're out to embarrass them.
Uncle Bud, there nature of design is based on high compression and a gas motor is not. Diesels thrive on compression and run better and longer with a turbo. A high compression gas motor will not have a long life span. This is not an opinion it's fact just look at any gas motor with a turbo at 100,000 miles.
@Tim
"Let's be honest we would all choose a V-8 over a turbo V-6..."
Being at altitude, I would chose a turbo V6 over a V8.
Have just been corrected that, for some reason, the TorqueFlite 8 will not be available on the 4.7L V-8; 8-speed will be standard on V-6 and an option on the Hemi. Those 2013 Ram 1500s with the 4.7L V-8 will come equipped with the 6-speed (65RFE).
@ziviera "Well, it just happened. Ford is not a leader anymore in my opinion, but RAM. Egoboost won't cut it. Nothing sounds like V8 HEMI."
well not to sound rude but no one cares what your opinion is, FACTS is what matters and what is really happening and right now its Ford and it has been for quite some time, numbers don't lie, its great your a Ram fan, knock yourself out, I certainly don't think you will lose out whatever you buy, all 3 trucks are winners.
@Mark Williams:
Most likely because the 4.7 is being phased out. I myself don't think the 4.7 serves a purpose, especially not after the 2013 refresh.
@AC- I don't care much for GMC either. I'm more of a Chevy man myself. I have to be honest though, I don't think we'd be smoking anyone in sales either way. Ya the Sierra got a high trim option in the late 90's. Then Ford had the King Ranch in 99 and Chevy didn't get anything to compete with Ford. That's where my problem with GMC began. Not really with what GMC Got but with what Chevrolet Didn't get. I was pretty peeved at GM. Still am to be honest. That said, while IMO the current Sierra looks better than the Silverado, neither are very well built and that's just the plain hard truth. Interiors, drivetrains and even overall designs for both are on par with what would have been decent at best in the 1990's.
Even with that, I haven't bought a new Silverado in years. Each time a new model has come out I compare it to my 97 and again IMO, the new ones come up very short in built quality and design. It's pretty straightforward to the the era in which the reigns were handed from Chevrolet over to Ford. I can pinpoint the beginning of the downhill slide to the year 1999. The new Silverado's came out and were a very poor replacement for the 88-98 Silverado's in both build quality and design. Then came the King Ranch that the Silverado had nothing to counter with. Then came the ugly Silverado nose in 03. Then came the current truck which has been a total disaster inside and out from day one. Of course the off road guys will take Chevy's downfall all the way back to 1987 when the SFA's were pulled which I fully understand. Chevy sure has ticked off alot of folks. There's no denying that. Ford and Dodge have become the beneficiaries of that anger and Both have done the proper things in building trucks. Chevy lost it's way a long time ago. The idea of Dodge overtaking Chevrolet in truck sales this year or next really isn't that far fetched anymore. GM needs to take their next truck so far over the top that even a fresh design from Ford or Dodge couldn't touch it. I really don't even think it's possible. And the money it would cost to do it for two seperate truck lines would be enormous. I dunno, I wish Chevrolet all the luck I can wish but I'm not holding my breath anymore.
@Ram-Man
I don't quite think GM is stumbling unless being the worlds largest automaker is stumbling.
As far the Ecoboost is concerned as mentioned earlier I want to start off by saying I know you can't compare the Ecoboost to anything that has under 400lb ft of torque. In that 400lb ft class the Ecoboost returns the best FE by far. I also think that the Ecoboost was probably designed for the most of who don't tow all the time or the majority of the time. I just seem to be the only person that I know that feels that Ford reached to much with that engine. I think ford should have kept the Ecoboost in the same range of power as the SHO and towing capacity of the Coyote. I think they should made a larger version of the Ecoboost in the 4.0L-4.7L V8 range with 400hp and 440lb ft range. The reason being is the small twin turbo V8 could run 5-10 psi due to its larger displacement and that would be a better max towing engine as their is nothing eco about getting the worst FE when towing 8,500lb or more. Im still holding out hope that someone will make this engine with a 7 or 8-speed automatic transmission.
If Chevy was smart, they would give info on their new truck. A lot of guys might wait to get it if they knew more about it, but they're keeping everybody in the dark. Guys know now what t hey can get from Ford and the new Ram. This is going to backfire on GM. I was thinking of getting a new Chevy, but I'm not waiting or begging GM for details. There will be people who buy the Ram or Ford and then say I would have waited if I'd known Chevy was going to have this or that. I'm tired of the secrecy. I'ts a new Ram or Ford for me in 2013
Things ram needs to offer as option.
Manual tranny
Locking diff front and back
Leaf springs on any trim
Turbo v6
Turbo v8
Turbo diesel cummins v8
And I 4
Panoramic sunroof lol
@ Dean
Well not to sound rude but no one cares what your opinion is, FACTS is what matters and what is really happening and right now its, that nobody has most advanced V8 engine and 8 speed transmission, but RAM.
Numbers don't lie, its great your a Fart fan, knock yourself out, I certainly don't think you will lose out whatever you buy, all 3 trucks are good, but RAM is the winner.
I have not heard anything from pickuptrucks.com or in the comments about EcoBoost shuddering which seems to be a big deal at some of the forums (example: http://www.f150forum.com/f38/2011-55-60mph-shuddering-possible-fix-128636/).
This problem seems to have Ford stumped (no solution) and the owners experiencing it seem pretty upset with it.
I've heard nothing about it on this site, and comments about EcoBoost are generally good. Any dissenters?
I have read about the ecoboost misfire debacle, and have emailed PUTC about the issue, and received no reply. Have seen NO press coverage at all....and agree, that there appears to be a pretty big problem with that engine. I am 100% sure that as of a month ago, Ford dealers were being told by company engineers to not touch ecoboost trucks until they had a fix.
@Sierra: Is it written somewhere a bed must be 6'6"?? Or that's just way to spin it? What specific think is it that is 2" longer? I like the fact if I upgrade to a 2013, or later, I can still use my backflip. Did Chevy actually say they would build a 6'6" bed behind a crew? You kinda got it wrong, Ram is pretty roomy for a crew, roomier then a Chevy crew. You can maybe look at the 2008 LD shootout. Chevy crew doors are kinda small. I have darn near as much room in my Ram 1500 quad as a Chevy GM crew, and easily beat the sorry extended cab Chevy.
Gm needs A NEW TRUCK! LOL!Maybe their NEW TRUCK MIGHT be even with the 2009 Ram? Wow, GM, they are on it! If a 5.5 gets that great of mileage, it will be with 2.73 gears, in typical GM fasion. So it will downshift on the slighest inclines! I hardly doubt a 5.5 will make same power as 6.2, but then Chevys 6.2 can't even keep up with Ford's new antique 6.2. It's one thing to say "this company will come up with this or that" it's another thing to say "I wish Ram would take an engine they ALREADY have access to (6.4 Hemi) and drop it in a 1500 & 2500" You don't think Ram isn't messing with direct injection?
GM has a long way to go to get close to Ram in power and interior. If the Ram crew is not big enough for some folks, they already have darn near the biggest cab put on a pickup truck. They can use the Mega Cab, if it appears that some new GM crew is selling so much. Ford is in neutral now, they aint changing cabs. "It's not hard to beat this Ram" yeah, GM is SOOOO FAR BEHIND, they might make it to 2012 stanards. LOL!
@HarelyF150: "the Ram should have came with more engine choices its just the same old same old !!! chevy and the ram are both junk"
Says the guy with an outdated engine when it was released, the 6.2 Ford. Wow, a big stroke to bore ratio, and it still has to be revved up to make it's power! Too bad a current Hemi makes lots more power and torque PER INCH, has a broader torque band, and will get ALOT better mileage. LOL, 16 mpg from a Harley F150? You just like wasting money? That 6.2 is almost a modern day Ford 400! Not great on power (per inch) and not great on mileage! IF Ram wants to put the hurt on that 6.2, they will go to an engine that already exists, a 6.4 Hemi, more power and torque per inch, and eat less gas, and be lighter. While Ford doesn't see alot of change, Ram is!
@V-8s forever: the Pentastar is said to make about 90% torque from 1600 to 4800 rpm. In this application, it's max is at 4100 RPM. That's not bad for a little V-6. The Ford makes a bit more, yet some of that might be due to Ford's 3.7 V-6 being 10.5 to 1 compression, the Penastar is 10.2. But the Ford doesn't have quite the broad powerband. The current Camaro v-6? Alot more compression, and must be spun tight.
The 4.7 needs spun a bit tight as well, I had an 07 4x4 Dakota with an H.O. 4.7 with 3.92s, best I did for mileage was 19.4 per gallon driving about 70 up Missouri hwy 71. In a 4700 pound truck though at 55-60 the best I could average was 17.6 dring 22 miles to work and back, in the hills. My new Ram can get 19 on the same one time drive, and would lose some on every startup, but still not bad for a truck that's 700 plus pounds more and pushing more air.
I can really see Dodge building either the 3.6 into a V-8 (same bore and stroke) 4.8, which if it made the same torque per inch as the Pentastar, it would be 358 ft pounds of torque. That way the two engines can share alot of components. Cost effectiveness. There is also talk of a smaller Pentastar V-6. But just the same, lets keep the people employed that are building 4.7s. Give them something to build! I see the 5.7 maybe getting bigger, atleast I would change the stroke to the same as the 6.4 Hemi's 3.72, increasing it to a 359. And there is talk of a 6.2?? Supercharged Hemi.
@Sierra and the other odd Chevy/GM fan - will GMC corpse come out with better trucks than what Ram and Ford currently have?
Probably..........
But................
You naeed to take into serious consideration this one very large fact:
The 2013 Ram is NOT a new model. They are calling it a mid-cycle upgrade.
Say that over and over again.
Ford - the new engines are in an older body/chassis - again a mid-cycle upgrade.
GM will release it's "all new" trucks in 2014 MY or some time in 2013.
Ford and Ram will be releasing their "NEW" trucks in 2015 MY or 2014.
1.I find it hard to believe that GM will be able to take over the industry lead and 2. hold it for any length of time.
Ram's mid-cycle upgrade has become the industry standard (assuming the press hype lives up in real world testing).
I'm still miffed at Dodge for the 3.7 engine in my Dakota,they could have helped that setup a lot pretty easily(wouldnt even put a e-fan on them to help the mileage and power,dont know why they even put that that setup in a pickup,everybody with a V-8 I talk to seems to get better mileage and have a lot more power.So Dodge you have lost a customer and probaly in the future if I ever get another new one it will be a Nissan or Ford(think about the common man a little bit).
@Tim
TURBO MOTORS ON TRUCKS WITH HIGH MILEAGE
Ford Superduty TurboDiesel engineered lifespan 350,000mile - 400,000miles many older model still running strong same turbo.
Ram HeavyDuty Cummin TurboDiesel engineered lifespan 500,000miles Many well pass 300,000 still running same turbo
Chevy Duramax Engineered lifespan 350,000miles many still going with the same turbo
Class 8 Trucks many with 1,000,000 miles same turbo
A truck is the best application of using Turbo Technology, Class 8 Trucks have proofed the reliability of Turbos for 37yrs
Remember Ford did extensive testing of its Ecoboost technology.
WERE IN THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN, TURBOCHARGING IS THE FUTURE OF GASOLINE ENGINE TECHNOLOGY ALONG WITH DIRECT INJECTION. THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO PRODUCE POWER THATS WHY THEY ARE USED IN HEAVY DUTY TRUCK APPLICATION (CLASS 8).
Which transmission do you think would be better for towing an average weight of about 6000lbs on a goose neck trailer? The TorqueFlite 8 or the standard 65FRE tranny sitting behind the 5.7 Hemi
The Hemi is the best sounding pickup truck engine by far. I can only imagine what it will sound like shifting through eight gears.
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