First Drive: 2012 Tacoma TRD T/X Baja
To begin: This is no Raptor fighter, but it does get Toyota heading in the right direction. In fact, Toyota will be the first to tell you it doesn’t want the new Tacoma T/X Baja Series package to be confused as the automaker’s version of the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor; the goals were more modest, and the budget was a tad smaller. Still, there is substance here.
The guys at Toyota Racing Development have done a stellar job of creating a unique suspension package that gives the Tacoma vastly improved high-speed capability over Toyota’s previous king-of-the-hill TRD Off-Road Package. In fact, the new Bilstein shocks — designed to better handle extreme desert environments — help improve all-around on-pavement performance and handling dynamics as well. But perhaps that shouldn’t surprise anyone, given that Toyota (specifically, its TRD group) has been a strong player in the off-road and performance-truck segments for more than a few decades.
We took a quick drive in the T/X Baja at last year’s Texas Auto Writers Association event where Toyota brought out the Baja Series and let us get behind the wheel. The short off-road course was not nearly fast and challenging enough to let the Baja spread its wings, so we made a point of complaining to Toyota often enough that the automaker finally threw us the keys to shut us up.
As a quick recap, the new suspension is a more extreme TRD package, giving the Tacoma better high-speed off-road capability. Much of this is accomplished with much bigger and better Bilstein shock absorbers. The front set has a monster 60-mm-thick shock body originally designed for heavy-duty motorhome use, but TRD tuned it to progressively absorb hard hits and rebound quickly to get the tire back on the ground with the least amount of impact.
In addition to the big Bilstein shocks, the T/X Baja has a new set of stiff front springs that give the Tacoma almost 2 inches of added lift, giving the truck a balanced and more imposing look.
In back, the key improvements also center on the better Bilstein race shocks, with a 50-mm-shock body and horizontally mounted remote reservoir. Astute readers will notice that the remote reservoir was mounted vertically in the T/X Baja we drove in Texas, but we were told the new setup is less prone to damage by rock interference and other debris.
The T/X Baja Series includes distinctive 16-inch beadlock-style wheels that look similar to the Rock Warrior package offered on the Tundra, with 265/70R16 BFGoodrich all-terrain tires. The final additions include a side-exit TRD cat-back exhaust and a set of slinging-mud graphics.
We spent the day in the T/X Baja romping around a local motorcycle/4x4 park. Considering the parts list isn’t very long, it’s surprising how well they work together to make the Tacoma a significantly better high-speed performer off-road. And we say that having liked how capable the existing TRD package was before.
We ran through several dry washes in the park valleys and found the front end to be exceptionally well set up to absorb some hefty ruts and berms. Several times, we found ourselves stiffening our bodies — maybe closing our eyes, too — in anticipation for a jarring hit to the front end. But it never happened.
Slicing and dicing through the dry riverbed, cutting through and over rock fields, then driving in and out of deep sand ruts — all at around 40 to 45 mph — the Baja was comfortable and responsive. The slightly taller stance seemed to help our visibility as we kept sawing the wheel to keep the BFGs from getting pulled into any of the big ruts (obviously from full-size trucks).
When out of the dry wash and back onto more challenging trails that are popular with motorcycles and Jeeps, the Baja remained a strong player. At this point, we became exceptionally aware of how speed-sensitive this setup was. We found an old service road about 300 yards long with an almost endless series of “whoop-de-dos.” For those who ride motorcycles, you know how these ruts form over time with hard riding and how much fun they can be when attacked at the right speed. But for four-wheeled vehicles they are torture, throwing even a good suspension into a violent pogo-like rhythm.
Normally, we’d navigate this stretch in 1st gear and roll up and over each wave. Any faster than that, and we’d be launching off each face, grabbing some awkward air and pounding into the next. The whoops were spread out just far enough to mess with the rear tires as the front tires recover from the last big rut. Not pretty.
When we’ve tried to take this series of bumps in the past at higher speeds (above 20 mph) in the regular TRD Tacoma, the results were both jarring and unnerving. It was easy to tell we were running outside the suspension setup’s capabilities. However, when trying the same section in the Baja Series, the shocks made all the difference. At 20, 30 and 40 mph, the series of ruts and bumps felt like they were getting smoother. In high-range four-wheel drive, we found the best way to keep control of the Tacoma was to keep the revs high (around 3,000 or 4,000 rpm) in 2nd or 3rd gear (depending on speed) and aim for the tops of the whoops. In fact, after just a short amount of time, it was clear from the feel of the truck that it could do higher speeds as well, which we did.
We’ve taken both the 5.4- and 6.2-liter V-8 Raptors through this section, and there’s no hesitation in our mind that the Baja Series is not as gifted as the Raptor (nor should it be). But the difference between the two, given the Toyota is a much less modified and unique truck, is impressive. We’d guess the Baja Series is about 80 to 85 percent of the way to the Raptor — albeit much smaller, lighter and likely to cost less.
In the slow-go low-range mode, all the usual strengths offered by the TRD setup — big tires, skid plating, traction control, locking differential, low range — are still strongly in play, with the extra bonus of a touch more wheel travel at each corner. TRD engineers, we’re told, worked long and hard to squeeze out every millimeter of full-droop and full-compression wheel travel as possible by tuning the front and rear springs and paying close attention to the progressive bump-stops. The added articulation and strong grip of our BFGs made short work of several steep off-camber hill climbs (by our calculations, about a 30-degree slope — almost a 70-percent grade) that made our seat belt tensioners cut into our shoulder as we climbed the rutted grade to the crest.
The T/X Baja does not make any changes to the standard 3.73:1 gear ratios that the TRD package gets or to the stock six-speed transmission. All engine features and characteristics are identical as well. Our Baja Series truck weighed about 100 pounds heavier than the TRD 4x4 Package that participated in our Midsize Shootout, tipping the scales at 4,420 pounds. For comparison purposes, we also tested a rear-wheel-drive PreRunner I-4 Tacoma (also a very capable and fun-to-drive midsize truck for about $10,000 less), and it weighed 3,780 pounds.
Over the course of our 400-mile drive route, we averaged just over 18 mpg (18.14 mpg to be exact), with a little less than that (17.67 mpg) when factoring in our 60-plus-mile off-road day, where our time was equally split between high and low range. Our particular preproduction model had the automatic transmission, but Toyota will offer a manual as it does on its Access and Double Cab models.
Because of our limited time with the Baja Series and unfortunate scheduling, we were not able to do any meaningful track testing; however, some rudimentary zero-to-60-mph runs put our test unit in the 8.5-second range, which is a touch slower than the TRD Tacoma we tested in the Midsize Shootout (8.17 seconds).
Our only gripes with the Baja center on the TRD exhaust package, which does not feel impressive from our ears or from the driver’s seat. The note sounds more like an overworked hairdryer than the throaty or rumbly tone you’d expect from this kind of a vehicle. Still, if the point is to give the package small, significant separators from ordinary Tacomas, the exhaust tip does look good.
To help improve the ride and feel of the suspension at higher speeds, some tuning was done to the rear spring-pack; it does a great job helping the ride at speed, but it takes away a small amount of carrying capacity. With a gross vehicle weight rating of 5,500 pounds, our vehicle has a real-world payload of around 800 pounds — and that’s without any passengers. Add the fact that the springs raise the front end a little, and if you add anything in the bed and drive at night, expect oncoming traffic to think your brights are turned on. Like the Raptor (at least the first ones), the Baja Series seems to be a vehicle that favors spending most of its life not having to carry any payload.
The obvious question here is what kind of premium price is Toyota going to pin on this new, more aggressive off-road model when a fully loaded TRD 4x4 Tacoma can list for $34,000. (Our Midsize Shootout competitor listed for $34,635.)
Toyota won’t announce pricing until closer to the Baja Series’ on-sale date near the end of June, but they’ve been consistent from the time they first showed the truck at the 2011 State Fair of Texas. The vehicle should cost right around $35,000, and when you consider what’s on this new package, that price could be a challenge to hit. Toyota representatives told us their research revealed the $35,000 mark was as much as buyers would want to pay for a truck like this. And we’re guessing it’s no accident that number is a healthy notch below the average transaction prices for the SVT Raptors.
For now, volumes will likely be in the hundreds rather than thousands, but from everything we’re hearing, this won’t be the last special off-road package (or truck?) coming from Toyota. As return-fire goes, this is a nice shot, but we want to see more.
Comments
it will cost half asmuch as the Raptor
because it can only do hafl of what the Raptor does.
ITs GOOD LOOKIN TRUCK!
i think most of us can put together something simillar to this with just about any midsize truck....right mybe costing less that what a regular taco costs.....
I just threw up a little in my mouth !
This thing is UGLY !!! And sounds like TuRD as it even has the TuRd sticker on it !!
@ big Roy
time to go back to school 35,000 is not half as much as 42,725 the raptors starting msrp
Not a fan of the tacoma but def a nice package added to the truck. Id take these kinds of mods on my Ram. Dont understand this whole new obsession with baja type wheeling, seems fun but I guess I dont see the appeal seeing that all the wheeling for fun and trails I tackle for hunting are mountainy and muddy type trails to each his own. NEXT PERSON TO COMPARE THIS TO A RAPTOR OR RAMRUNNER WILL HAVE ME REACH THROUG THE SCREEN AND SMACK THEM.
peeps will swoop every single one made for the simple fact that there's enthusiast in every brand.
the taco baja will stomp ramrunner n raptor!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least this one is street legal and looks decent. oxi's "one-ton" on the other hand...
$35,000 and probably no discount because of course - it's a toyoda - it will take real taco fan boys to think that sounds like a deal. Give me a discounted half ton and the dollars left over for mods and I would have a pickup that can work on the job too.
Looks like a great truck and probably very fun to drive. Too bad they didn't add the supercharger as standard equipment while they were at it. They want way too much money for this truck though. Should cost no more than 25k imho.
Looks like an unintresting truck that probably isn't very fun to drive. At least they didn't waste the money it would cost to add a Supercharger to it. They do want to much money for this truck...It should be free because I doubt they will be able to sale these in any volume what so ever.
I maintain that every TRD OffRoad should sit like this out of the box, even if they don't all come with remote reservoir shocks. Those shocks, btw, are we sure that the rods are 60mm, not the body? 60mm is 2 3/8", right between the body sizes of 2" and 2.5" coilovers used on these trucks. Those usually have rods less than 1". Did you tester have a 6speed or an automatic? Or are you telling us something?
@fordsux- problem is, it really doesn't cost any less to build a small truck than a big one. They have all the same parts, just smaller. The only thing you save is 1000# in materials.
@MW- you might want to edit copy a little:
The prerunner isn't front wheel drive
5500gvw- 4420 curb weight is not 800#WITHOUT A DRIVER
As far as the headlights, it doesn't matter if the truck started level or a little tail high. If you load the back, the headlights will shine higher in both.
@uh huh, hey stupid, didn't you read the first paragraph????
@toyotasucks, ........... you're a douche.
The Raptor is heavily modded while Toyota changes the shocks and coil springs and still clears over $10,000 less than a stripped Raptor not to mention smaller size and less weight that is a huge bonus off-road and better angles...
Time for an off-road shoot-out...
Tacoma/Raptor/RamRunner...
No pavement anything or pulling ridiculous trailer tests, strictly off-road...
Desert test for higher speeds...
Deep snow...
Slow speed rock crawling terrain...
Basic rutted trail riding with water/mud/logs...
Empty bed at first then basic camping gear in the bed, real world testing...
Ofcourse I think the Tacoma would win because of better off-road angles and lighter weight...
Tacoma/Raptor/RamRunner...
Let's see.. Toyota? Check. Ford? Check. - (Of course) Dodge? Check. Chevy??? Um, Chevy? Hello? Anyone home at Chevrolet??? I guess not. The once mighty leader of the pack is now irrelevant in the world of trucks.
Ford is #1
Dodge is #2
Toyota is #3
Chevy is MIA.
Ford is #1
Dodge is #2
Toyota is #3
Chevy is MIA.
@Walt, isn't that the truth. I don't see Chevy ever regaining it's crown either with GMC around. Good luck beating the Raptor with this Toyota though.
oxi,
Say you have a 1000 lbs payload and you load it up with 2000 lbs payload, wouldn't you be invalidating your insurance if you got in an accident with twice the payload?
Peronally, you may cause stress on the engine, but more importanly, you could change the handling characteristics of the van making it dangerous to drive.
Better get a bigger truck if you want to haul over 1 ton or lighten your load.
Leave the heavy hauling for the full-size trucks.
Keep your truck off-road or in the garage where it belongs!
OEM specs for mirrors/floor mats/tires and laws on weight ratings are two different things.
One you can be fined for if you exceed the rating and the other is just equipment the manufacturer gives you.
Hey Pete Papageorge,
We heard you say earlier that your payload is 1300 lbs and now you think it is over 2100 lbs because some guy named Jeff at Deaver Springs said so.
I can tell you that a severe overload like the one you're describing - going over the limit by more than 50% - can cause various handling and safety problems.
Do you have insurance? Please let us know the name of your insurance company so we can inform them that you are going over you GVWR by 60%.
I am sure your insurance company would love to hear about this and adjust your policy.
@Tom - Deaver does not condone going over legal weights. I got sick and tired of Oxi's 1 ton capable Deaver equiped truck Bull sh-t so I sent an email to Deaver. This is their reply to my email -
Deaver Springs
We can get the suspension to handle it but it will not legally change the GVW. The chassis, brakes and axle are still the same.
Scott Born
Sales, Marketing and Production
902 E. Second Street
Santa Ana, Ca 92701
714-542-3703
714-542-2898 Fax
You cannot excede the ratings on the truck if operated legally on any public road. That makes Oxi's truck a play toy that needs to be trailered to any offroad location by a full sized truck.
I don't know about you, but if I have to trailer my offroad toy, a Polaris RZR side by side or similar rig would be my choice. Any of those quads will kick ass and be tons more fun and tons cheeper to operate.
Perhaps Oxi figures that when the zombie apocalypse comes, laws won't matter.
I have to laugh my ass off every time I read one of his posts knowing that his truck legally needs to be trailered by a full sized truck.
BEFORE Any modifications are done to a truck that will be used on public roads, one needs to make sure their modifications meet the laws in your jurisdiction. Warranties limit modifications, some jurisdictions have tire size limits, others have limits on headlight or bumper height. There are laws that can require mudflaps or flares to limit exposed tire. Engine mods that play with the emissions can also be taboo. The US government was making stability control manditory and any mod that adversely affects those sytems are illegal as well.
Regardless what you do GVWR is a fixed constant. The only way one can legally increase cargo capacity is to lighten the truck or buy a truck with a higher load rating.
I do like this truck, I don't mind Tacoma trucks nor am I anti-Toyota. They have their place but right here and now, that place isn't in my driveway.
@oxi
The TRD X/T Baja doesn't really compare to the Raptor and while the TRD Baja might have a slight advantage in some scenarios, what part of Baja has snow & logs? Anyways, what's important here is the overall package and while every truck will have different pros & cons, these are desert trucks.
From a value perspective, the TRD Baja double cab has the same F/R leg room of an F-150 supercab but seats 4. Nevermind that the Raptor is as hard loaded as a Lariat with the 6.2.
Why would anyone compare it to a Raptor? Different engine size, different weight class, different category.
It's a good offering by Toyota, don't get me wrong, and yeah I'd be taking a closer look if it was priced 25-30K but 35K+ is a bit much when the Raptor is just a few $K more. Why buy Shasta Cola when the 'real thing' is just a few nickels more?
I traded my 2007 Tundra 5.7 for a Raptor and the Raptor takes getting used to. My Raptor also guzzles gas a lot worse than my Tundra did. A lot of that is due to my lead foot, but still, I drive the Raptor no different than I did my Tundra. My Raptor rides a lot harder than my Tundra ever did but it's got more power. So it's been a trade-off for me. On the one hand I like the power of the Raptor. OTOH I miss the smoothness and quietness of the Tundra.
@highdesertcat THANK YOU and @Dodo why wouldnt you expect the Raptor to ride harder its more set up for off road then generic daily driving you cant knock a specific made model like that (although it still is def not an off road only super mod but none the less) I can see if you where comparing to a F150 or Ram but not a raptor cmon common sense
I'll have to agree with oxi. I'd like to see a F-150 vs Tacoma off-road comparison. 4x4 vs 4x4. I'd have to go with the F-150 because it is more powerful, heavier and gets more traction.
oxi, There is a misunderstanding. Only the springs are 1 ton capable, NOT the truck!
Have you guys that never off-roading in your lives ever wonder why small Jeeps with just an inline-6 or 1980's Toyota pickups with just a 22R under the hood and let's say they both run 35" tires (that would be illegal according to Lou and Jason because they are such vigilantes and would want you to keep them off the highways) do so well off-road when compared to heavy full-size pickups with massive V8's and 36" tires?
One it's called better approach/departure/breakover angles, solid ground clearance numbers to go along with less weight and smaller size to get between tight obstacles...
If you have been off-roading (with an illegal vehicle according to the Gods of off-roading Jason and Lou) you know what I am talking about!
Bigger, heavier trucks with massive V8's mean sinking in the mud further and breaking more parts trying to keep from getting stuck...
The more weight you have, the more ground clearance is needed to keep those axles from sinking in the deep stuff, also dragging on rocks/logs...
But you need an illegal off-road vehicle with larger wheels and tires to go into the deep, so Jason and Lou have no idea what real off-roading is...
I think this Tacoma would do well in an off-road shoot-out because of its smaller dimensions, better approach/departure/breakover angles and lighter weight...
You do not need a massive V8 to go off-roading!
@Lou & Jason,
Every pickup that places aftermarket off-road springs, torsion bars, control arms, leaf springs and then slaps larger rims and tires, adds considerable more torque and power to the motor without improving drivetrain would be considered ILLEGAL according to your views...
So why haven't all of these "lifted" pickups with larger tires than what the OEM's state on their data plates still driving on the roads today? Why have they not been pulled over?
I think its jealousy that I can build my pickup as I please like many other EXPEDITION built pickups/Jeeps/Disco's and you guys have such a hatred for us that have increased payloads to carry more gear to go further into the deep and stay away from society to enjoy the great outdoors and that you have a chip on your shoulders because some of us out there know how to properly design and build our EXPEDITION trail rigs to go further and carry more cargo than OEM...
Just leave us EXPEDITIONers alone! We know how to improve a stock vehicle to actually make them safer and more capable, you just sick to what the OEM says and what big brother brainwashes you with...
From off-roaders to high-speed on road courses, I have always fooled around with pickups over my life and NEVER have had any issues modding my pickups or have been pulled over for such silliness as you guys claim...
Just keep digging your holes of jealousy!
Here is a list of my "illegal" mods over the years:
1986 Toyota pickup:
3" bodi-lift: illegal
Larger diameter torsion bars and cranked up: illegal
New rear leaf spring pack for additional clearance: illegal
Larger 35" tires: illegal
Removed factory sway bar: illegal
When I raced it down in Baja, I still street drove it with new mods:
40mm Weber carb.: illegal
Downey 4 into 1 header with all block out plates: illegal
Dual shock system all around: illegal
Limit straps: illegal
My 1985 PreRunner:
4" bodi-lift: illegal
32" tires: illegal
ATS strut frame and both upper/lower control arms: illegal
New rear spring pack rear: illegal
Downey air cleaner/headers: illegal
Removed factory sway bar: illegal
My 2005 Tacoma X-Runner:
Renton 2" drop coils: illegal
3" steel drop block: illegal
Custome Watts-link: illegal
Larger diameter sways bars front/rear: illegal
MAF computer software: illegal
Doug Thorley headers: illegal
Negative 2 degrees from camber adjustement: illegal
BBK front, rear disc conversion rear: illegal
Stage II clutch: illegal
Never been pulled over!
Who cares about any of these trucks? With the money spent on the stupid factory accessories, you could buy a regular extended cab pickup and put $20,000 worth of performance parts. You could have both an original truck with better performance. People who buy these sort of trucks are just rich and lazy.
Who the hell uses a body lift. JUNK!!!
hey...back to the deaver leaf springs.
i was readint the PETERSENS4WHEEL&OFFROAD MAGAZINE "june 2012"
and i notice that one of their articles talk about how you can store your gear better. they are using a newer ford 150.
ANYWAYS I NOTICE IN ONE OF THE PICKTURES THE LEAF SPRINGS LAY FLAT THERE IS NO "ARCH"
I COUL BE WRONG.
I'll have to agree with oxi. I'd like to see a F-150 vs Tacoma off-road comparison. 4x4 vs 4x4. I'd have to go with the F-150 because it is more powerful, heavier and gets more traction.
@Dave, I'd like to see that also. I'm not a Toyota guy at all But I will give credit to them for this one truck. I firmly believe the Tundra will never do much for them. The Big 3 have an "All American" lock on that. People want their Ford, their Chevy and their Dodge. That said, none of the Big 3 did the midsize truck thing. Dodge was close but didn't pursue it properly. None of the big 3 catered to the offroad enthusiast crowd with their small trucks. The Chevy S-10 ZR2 was right there knocking down that door and Chevy just threw in the towel for that Isuzu Colorado pile. In fact it's quite clear to me that Chevrolet lost interest in trucks from the 90's forward. While the 88-98 truck was a Killer 1500, it began in the 80's and was leftover from the era in which they still cared. Just like the 87 SFA trucks were left over from the 60's/70's when they still cared about a proper 4x4.
Toyota on the other hand stayed strong and steady. Good quality (in this particular vehicle) and they've rounded out their packaging well. I'd never own one but they get my respect here. That said, Ford's Raptor in untouchable in a true baja situation for a factory truck. Ford had always stayed strong and steady. They just didn't have the proper offroad package for the Ranger. I think the F-Series is a much sturdier platform for the job though.
Although as much as I hate to say if you where to put the same amount of money into an F150 a Ram a taco and a Dakota the taco or dakota would be the best because of the smaller dimension lighter etc. If you dont need to go fast with only limited power and good gears you can get away with a decent 4banger v6 or i6 But what I think oxi fails to see in his rampant fan boyism is that the debate here is no overall taco vs f150 vs ramrunner its this one specific package and the raptor and ramrunner are most purpose built while this taco package is much tammer although a very good start. Would a raptor or ramrunner woop this taco I def think so especially because that smaller size argument isnt so valid with this taco seeing that it keeps getting bigger But overall mid/small truck vs fullsize unless your building a dedicated mud bogger oxi is right you DO NOT need full size with a v8 and all that. But to each his own I wheel my full size w/ a v8 and build it up because thats what I like and I need a full size bed.
For the snow and logs I would take a Power Wagon over this.
@moparman,
I agree with a descent 4-cylinder and I think Toyota makes the only pickup with a 4-cylinder that can off-road, those factory 4.10's help...
My 1986 4x4 had 4.10's 25 years ago and so does my 2010...a good combo with the 4-cylinder to off-road with...
@moparman, I live about 6 miles west of Twentynine Palms, CA, so there is desert all around me. In fact, the road leading from the Hwy to my house is a rutted, unpaved gravel road.
The difference between the Tundra I owned and the Raptor I own now is like night and day.
That said, no one twisted my arm to buy the Raptor. I bought it because of the sheer grunt! It's a go-getter!
Although my Tundra 5.7 was a lot more refined than the mill in the Raptor, the Raptor has a more power in a brutish sorta way.
The ride, though, leaves my butt sore, just like my former F150 did - the one I owned before I bought the Tundra in 2007. I see where Ford seats still suck. I can't be the only one with Ford-sore-butt-syndrome.
But it ain't all bad. If gas mileage is your thing, the Raptor is not for you. During a recent trip to Camp Pendleton and back I got a solid 12mpg on I-10 cruising at 85mph for much of the way. Got a lotta looks from other pickup drivers I passed along the way.
The Tundra would at least give me an honest 15-16 mpg traveling on the same route. Not so the Raptor. Maybe gas mileage will improve with wear. But I doubt it. It never did with my previous F150.
People have to weigh the pros and cons when considering buying a Raptor. There is a lot to love, but there is also a lot to bemoan.
Ride, handling, noise, vibration and harshness are much worse than ANY Toyota truck product I, or my family members, have owned, Tundra or Tacoma.
The Raptor is a purpose-built half-ton pickup truck. If you can reconcile yourself with that the Raptor is one hell of a truck. Point it and press the go-pedal. It hauls ass in all sorts of terrain!
The closest thing from Toyota would be the Tundra 5.7 Supercharged TRD, which also costs $15,000+ MORE than the Raptor.
There is a limit to what I'll pay for a truck, and the Raptor is not cheap. It is as high as I want to go because, after all, a truck is a truck is just a truck. You buy it, you drive it, you trade it for a new one.
I'm going to keep this Raptor for 3-5 years, depending on how well it holds up. It's hard to imagine it could be better than my old Tundra which had NO problems in five years and well over 100K miles and had absolutely nothing done to it except change the oil and filters in all that time.
That's my input, based on my experience. I don't knock anyone's choice in trucks, because choosing a truck is a personal thing. I've owned them all, at one time or 'nuther.
For that MSRP, you can get a fully loaded Titan Pro4x with 7' box and prolly enough left over to buy a set of more east-coast-mud-appropriate tires a and a few tanks of gas.
Then again I'd have serious reservations about taking a new $35k truck offroading here. Sure in the open desert, what can go wrong. But on the east coast with the trees, branches, rocks, just so many opportunities for damage.
@Oxi - you should be a politician, interesting spin.
Now anyone who disagrees with you is jealous.
The point is - if you DRIVE ON ANY PUBLIC ROAD, the vehicle has to meet the laws of the jurisdiction you are in.
Now you claim that every modification you've ever done to a truck is "illegal".
Anyone feel like forewarding this thread to Wisconsin DOT ;)
I'd rather be digging a hole of jealously (sic) with Jason than a hole of abject idiocy with you.
Why are you trying to turn this into an argument of "big truck" versus "small truck" ?
Each vehicle has its purpose and strong and weak points. Carrying a ton of weight just happens to be be a 4 banger Tacoma's weak point.
Quote "The more weight you have, the more ground clearance is needed to keep those axles from sinking in the deep stuff, also dragging on rocks/logs..."
If that is the case, how much does your Tacoma currently weight?
To follow your immutable race honed logic, shouldn't you be running tires bigger than a 265/75/17 ?
Your Taco empty weighs as much as a full sizer therefore your rant dictates bigger tires.
I can pick apart your posts all day long since us jealous sheeple have nothing better to do.
I guess you don't drive too much as you said on another thread "I have a 1996 Toyota Corolla that gets over 30mpg as my main daily driver..."
How many miles per gallon does your Tacoma get empty? or loaded?
As far as your statement " and you guys have such a hatred for us that have increased payloads to carry more gear to go further into the deep and stay away from society to enjoy the great outdoors and that you have a chip on your shoulders",
that is an incredibly narrow minded comment to make to a guy that lives in an area considerably more remote than Wisconsin. Wisconsin is only 1,500,000 acres. I have 233,472,000 acres to go play in. My province is 155 times larger than Wisconsin.
I can easily drive 500 miles off road without going over the same path twice.
BTW - it is funny to think that your truck by your own admission is illegal on public roads. I'm sure there are many guys on this site that can give you advice on buying a full sized truck capable of towing a 8,000 lb Tacoma.
BWhhhaaaahaaaaahaaaa.
@oxi
Go back to Taco world where you belong and don't let your approach angle hit you in your ass on the way there!
Perspective:
Tacoma: $35,000-$36,000
Raptor: $42,725 - $2500 incentives = $40,225.
For around $36,000 you can get half a Raptor. For around $4k more you can have the real thing.
There you have it.
@Rich, actually it isn't all that bad in the real world (depending on where you live).
I got back 51% of what I paid for my 2007 Tundra when I traded it on my Raptor, and the Tundra sold the following day, off the dealer lot.
My Raptor had dealer charges tacked on totaling several thousands more than MSRP. But when push came to shove we ended up dealing for MSRP minus trade-in value plus tax, title, license plate, registration, smog certificate and some additional stuff I bought from the dealer.
I wrote a check for $32,174.61 for everything. Full Coverage Insurance was an additional $286 with USAA and will renew at $385 every six months, when it comes due again.
I agree, not cheap, but the Tundra really held its value here in Southern California. And that helped. I wonder if I will be able to get back 51% of the MSRP of this Raptor when I trade it in 3-5 years. My gut tells me NO!
Is that supposed to be a good deal? If so, reason could be because you probably paid close to MSRP on the Tundra and 2) you paid full MSRP for the Raptor.
It really doesn't matter if you get 51% or whatever % of the MSRP back. If you pay a higher MSRP and get a higher % of the MSRP back at tradein you are just giving more money to Toyota and the banker for the priviledge of getting a higher tradein amount.
If I on the other hand get only 41% of MSRP back at tradein, but paid 12% less upfront than the guy who bought the Tundra, who got the better deal? I did by 2%. It doesn't matter what the MSRP or percent of is, it matters what you pay.
On thefordraptorforum you can buy a Raptor at invoice. Dealers will sell it to you for the sticker or more than sticker if you are uneducated about the process enough to do so. At the very minimum you should get MSRP minus all incentives.
"front-wheel-drive PreRunner I-4 Tacoma" is a typo, pretty sure it's rear wheel drive. I don't know of any modern front wheel drive pickups.
There are no incentives for Raptor. If sales became slow on the Raptor that could possibly change. But it doesn't sound like they are slowing down anytime soon.
Dealers are marking them up because of the way Ford has allocated 2012 Raptors this year. Dealers who have them in stock are being called 40 times a day from other dealers looking to trade so there isn't much incentive to sell for much less if not a little more than MSRP. Even the guy on the Raptor forum is out of allocation. If you find a hungry dealership you could probably do invoice which will be about $3000 less than MSRP.
If you order a Raptor you can find a better deal. If they are on the lot already, I don't know if you will get a deal.
This is opposite of what is true for regular F-150's. If they are on the lot, you may get a better deal. If you order, they won't deal as much.
Like oxi said before...
Price mid 30's...
Much lower than those tanks!
So to make a fair shootout against the overpriced Raptor and Powerwagon, Toyota should get another $10,000 worth of mods...now we are talking!
But a smaller Tacoma slightly modded as with this when compared to the heavy modded tanks, the Tacoma should hold up well...
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