GM's Bi-Fuel 2500 HDs Are Ready to Order

2013-Silverado CNG 3 II
Starting Thursday, fleet and retail customers can order the 2013 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD and GMC Sierra 2500 HD bi-fuel vehicles, which run on regular gas or compressed natural gas, but they won't be inexpensive. The new powertrain option will add $11,000 to the base sticker price, but GM executives are quick to justify the price. 

“Businesses are looking for ways to control their costs while reducing vehicle emissions and becoming less dependent on fluctuating gas prices. The low cost of ownership makes these vehicles a realistic solution,” said Joyce Mattman, director of GM commercial product and specialty vehicles. “CNG has maintained a significantly lower retail price than either gasoline or diesel. The current average price of CNG is equivalent to $1.89 per gallon of gasoline. Customers could save $5,000 to $10,000 over a three-year period, depending on their driving habits.”

With an average transaction price for the 2500 HD extended cab models in the low- to mid-$30,000 range, we're talking about a low-$40,000 work truck that many companies will likely keep in rotation, depending on the severity of the duty cycle, for several years or longer. 

As a quick recap, the bi-fuel HDs were announced and shown at the 2012 NTEA Work Truck Show. The trucks will use a gasoline-powered standard 6.0-liter V-8 that can run on both CNG and gas, offering a 650-mile range. The heavy-duty trucks will only be offered in extended cab configurations but can be ordered with the long or short bed in two- or four-wheel drive. 

2013-Silverado CNG 4 II
The system is reported to offer seamless transitions from gas to CNG, with separate fuel gauges and control gear to allow for manual selections. The only significant modification (other than the huge storage tank in the bed) is the addition of an extra set of injectors on each bank. The system always starts with gasoline but then switches to CNG once the right parts are warmed up. 

The HD trucks are built in the Fort Wayne, Ind., plant and sent to a supplier for the CNG storage and delivery system. All bi-fuel trucks are covered by GM's 3-year/36,000-mile vehicle limited warranty and 5-year/100,000-mile limited powertrain warranty.

2013-Silverado CNG 2 II

Comments

First!!! Hmmm lets see here... a Duramax diesel costs about $8,000 and can go about 500-700 miles on a tank of diesel fuel and can tow more, last longer, less volatility with diesel fuel, more commercially availibilty of diesel fuel, and has full box useage... and this costs $11,000?! This CNG nonsense is beginning to become the new "hybrid" technology if I may install my $.02 on the issue

With an average transaction price for the 2500 HD extended cab models in the low- to mid-$30,000 range, we're talking about a low-$40,000 work truck that many companies will likely keep in rotation, depending on the severity of the duty cycle, for several years or longer.

- What company would buy one of these? The bodies and interiors on a Chevy are good for a few years tops in a work enviroment. This particular truck much like the last one is a disposable. The powertrains may be bulletproof and I'm sure this thing would run forever. It does no good when the truck falls apart around the motor though. My 2006 was junk. I already had rocker rot when I traded it for a 2010 and it's even worse build quality wise. Chintzy interiors are an understatement for Chevy's anymore. I have rattles, a small crack in the dash, wind noise at highway speeds, my seat coverings are pure garbage. The body is so flimsy I had to take it into the dealer and get foam insulation sprayed under the hood to keep it from flapping in the wind. There's little dents all over from the smallest bump. The back bumper is already bent from standing on it. A smart company would wait until the new truck comes out before ordering this. These new ones aren't built to last like the old ones were. I miss my 98 Silvy BAD!

its is clear that the only answer is hydrogen fuel cell...

$11k is exorbitant pricing in my opinion. I like the idea but CNG isn't readily available and those tanks take up too much space.

Looks like Ram CNG option is $12k, so anyone interested in a CNG pickup will be bending over for a stiff one.

Quote: Customers could save $5,000 to $10,000 over a three-year period, depending on their driving habits.”
Big fleets in my neighbourhood buy the lowest optioned truck available. They even will wave the warranty to reduce the price even further.
These won't fly in the part of the world I live in. Like ShopCat pointed out - no box space, poor availablility of fuel, and one can add poor fuel range.
They might sell in larger urban centres, but it would be more economical for those businesses to get a Tradesman, or Ram 1500 V6, or F150 with a V6. Compare this truck to those vehicles and a business would never reach a viable break even point.

I can see these selling just like hybrids - governments will be the largest purchaser.

These won't fly in the part of the world I live in. Like ShopCat pointed out - no box space, poor availablility of fuel, and one can add poor fuel range.

@Lou, I agree. You buy a truck to use the bed. There isn't much bed left here. Your right about availability of fuel as well. Our city had a few Dodge vans in the 80's that ran on LP. We had one place in town to fill them up. We entertained the idea of just installing filling stations at our city department warehouse but never did end up doing it. That one place no longer exists to fill these up if we wanted to.

- What company would buy one of these? The bodies and interiors on a Chevy are good for a few years tops in a work enviroment. This particular truck much like the last one is a disposable. The powertrains may be bulletproof and I'm sure this thing would run forever. It does no good when the truck falls apart around the motor though. My 2006 was junk. I already had rocker rot when I traded it for a 2010 and it's even worse build quality wise. Chintzy interiors are an understatement for Chevy's anymore. I have rattles, a small crack in the dash, wind noise at highway speeds, my seat coverings are pure garbage. The body is so flimsy I had to take it into the dealer and get foam insulation sprayed under the hood to keep it from flapping in the wind. There's little dents all over from the smallest bump. The back bumper is already bent from standing on it. A smart company would wait until the new truck comes out before ordering this. These new ones aren't built to last like the old ones were. I miss my 98 Silvy BAD!

@JarredH, I agree with that assessment as well. In the 90's we switched over to Chevrolet trucks and vans . They were very good to us. We continued until 2003. We had so many problems when they switched to the new trucks in 99 we couldn't afford to use Chevy's anymore. The list of drivetrain, electronic and body/interior durability issues we had is an endless one. In 2004 we switched over to all Ford's as a result. Much much better built vehicles. My brother has a 2011 Silverado that he wishes he never would have bought. His wife's father sells them though so I guess it wouldn't have looked so good if he bought an F-150. It's somewhat sad what happened to Chevy truck's. They really went downhill over the last decade or so.

gm has a habit of coming up with these weird mind washing ideas n charging people a arm n a leg for it is crazy.... but whats even more crazy is some people actually buy them..

lets see........
quadrasteer - great idea..... just cost too much for too little advantage
hybrid v8 - great idea..... cost too much for too little advantage
now this cng - great idea...... cost too much for too little advantage

whats wrong with that picture...

@JarredH, I agree with that assessment as well. In the 90's we switched over to Chevrolet trucks and vans . They were very good to us. We continued until 2003. We had so many problems when they switched to the new trucks in 99 we couldn't afford to use Chevy's anymore. The list of drivetrain, electronic and body/interior durability issues we had is an endless one. In 2004 we switched over to all Ford's as a result. Much much better built vehicles. My brother has a 2011 Silverado that he wishes he never would have bought. His wife's father sells them though so I guess it wouldn't have looked so good if he bought an F-150. It's somewhat sad what happened to Chevy truck's. They really went downhill over the last decade or so.

@Jim- You're right that the Chevy truck itself went into the toilet. The 99's-07's were junk compared to the 88-98's. The new 07's and up are even worse. They might as well say "Made In China" right inside the door. The 96-98's though had that stupid fuel injection spider that was a cheap POS. You can tell they designed it to save pennies. They had a California version that was Far better. These were both for the V6 and V8 Vortec's. Both engines were a guaranteed intake gasket failure as well. The new ones have a dry intake which is nice if you can get past the piston slap. You also had guaranteed corrosion issues on brake speed sensors causing them to fail up north from 96-98.. Outside of those 3 things though, the 88-98's were world class built machines. The new ones are pure garbage compared to the 90's trucks. They'll be littering up junkyards in big numbers inside of 10 years. The engines will be pulled to use in stock car racing, the rest will be parted out and crushed/recycled. Compared to everything built before the 88-98's, everything is garbage. Chevy used to build the most stout, well built truck money could buy but not these days. 1998 was indeed their last stand for any real relevancy in the real truck world. They still needed a beam axle though under their HD's.

That stuff aside, natural gas will never become mainstream. I saw the Dodge and now this, both are a waste if time.

Blah. GM is just a company waiting to be bought out by China once the feds dump their shares on the market. American Chevrolet is a thing of the past. The only REAL American auto company left standing is Ford. And screw GM/GMC for taking our tax dollars and creating this mess in the first place. Go to China... (or as some say, hell). At least Dodge is owned by the Italian's. Chevrolet ruled the world for 90+ years, their reign is over.

You guys are funny! You will spend over $8000 for a diesel and pay on the average of over $4.00 a gallon for fuel. Plus the added exspense of upkeep and maintenance. And you think that $11000 is too much with Natural gas costing around $1.89 a gallon. I drive a gas pickup and average over 130,000 miles a year and my gas engine may not have the torque of a diesel but is not much less then a diesel towing and a heck of a lot cheaper to operate. With CNG option I can make even more money then you clowns with the diesels.

Well there goes the GM bashing. I've been in ford and Chevys and I think the 03-07 interiors are nicer looking on the Chevys and the build quality is similar. On the newer ones I think the fords are only nicer when you get a high trim level like a king ranch other wise there both nice. When it comes to exterior I see both with rust not just Chevys and my buddy and his brother who one has a 04 f350 and the other a 3500 the ford has more rust and the interior looks more worn down. So from what I've seen the interior and exterior quality is similar. But the f350 could barely start the other day and left in a blue cloud of smoke after 2500 of engine work ware the dmax fired up no problem. Now when it comes to the cng I don't see it being worth it for 11k and the availability of it isn't that great at least we're I live so I think it would become a hassle as well.

Gm selling out? You are funny Mark. Maybe you did not hear but GM had the best profits in their history. They are number one in sales in the world. Ford can only dream about that. And by the way, GM also builds the best towing HD truck available today. I can almost bet that you drive a rusted out Ford Ranger. Ford was baled out by the banks and GM was baled out by the government. Ford was lucky that they were failing first before the bamks got into trouble and would not lend any money.

Yo Greg,
A LOAN is NOT a BAILOUT…your Obama Approved company line is tired and a LIE… Best HD truck? Maybe in a couple years. Right now sales say they are third best. HD customers prefer SFA.

A LOAN is NOT a BAILOUT…your Obama Approved company line is tired and a LIE… Best HD truck? Maybe in a couple years. Right now sales say they are third best. HD customers prefer SFA.

@Tom, AMEN to That! No SFA=NO SALE! They can keep their yuppie torsion bar IFS. And yes, GM had good profits, wanna know where most of the money came from? CHINA... via Buick sales! Wanna know where your Buick comes from? Europe via Opel... Oh wait, nobody in America buys Buick's.. Wanna know Why GMC is still around? Why our taxpayer money went to fund a second redundant truck line?? One that Nobody else in the entire world Needs? To sell at Buick dealers to keep them alive to support Europe to support China. That's Your American hard earned tax dollars at work. GM sucks. Chevrolet Used to rule the world too. GM ran them into the ground... So sad.

I had a 01 Silverado 70,000 not one problem, 03 Silverado 200,000 miles replaced water pump, fuel, pump and a control thing for the 4x4 and two front axle seals. I now drive a 07 Silverado 80,000 no problems.

So I think some people are just really hard on trucks no matter who makes them. I baby mine who would not with what they cost today.

Still think I would not buy a oil burner in a 1/2 ton nor CG just to much added cost.

I get 23 mpg with the cruise set to 61, so doing the math with a $9000 oil burner would take a long time to pay off. I would be bored with the pickup by then.

same old same old...You guys are unbelievable...well i do have some minor complaints about the GM interiors, some wierd rattle from the passenger door window trim...which goes away once i "re-adust it" and my cloth drivers seat is torn...I HAVE 206k miles on my 07 GMC truck (which weighs in just under 10k lbs) i've rebuilt the rear end twice, should have replaced the whole axle the first time at 183k when i hit a boulder in the middle of the road, but still is going strong, Ive repalced the throttle body, (only so that I could use the remote start) and replaced one 02 sensor, and the brake switch...THATS IT... Driving in the Oil field daily, with more than normal abuse...I torture my truck shifting it manually at 5500-6k on a regular basis... Uses no oil, never replaced a front end component, NOT ONE...EVER... my gosh, I get so irritated at you "know it alls" who say that Gm is is junk, GM needs a SFA, GM needs to fix the low frame, GM's interior is not as nice as Fords and Dodges (if i want to sit in a luxourious room, I will sit on my couch).... Not once under any "unceiveable" incident has any of the above hindered me from torturing my truck. SFA is the only way to go, GM's SB and BB are the only way to go... while the 6.0 is 30-40 hp shy of the hemi and the Toyota 5.7 and the Ford 6.2...it will run forever, as mine is proof.... if you want the extra power go for the 6.2.. And while i am on the topic, the New fords i've seen in the oil field have missing badges, and interior trim, and wheather stripping falling off... and those are 2012's so GET A LIFE..... and apart from welders, you don't ever see dodges, so that speaks for itself.

oh...and who would by them...How about every company in the oil and natural gas industry... Chesepeak is allready running a large fleet of GM CNG trucks and has been for a year or two... and in Arkansas and Oklhoma.. CNG is around 1.54... and gets comparable economy as gas.. from what i hear about the Chesepeak trucks the gas and gas/CNG versions are both getting around 11-13MPG which is what i get in my work truck aswell.

OPEN LETTER TO GM:

I have an idea for a campgin you might want to consider for the next gen 2014 trucks.

I call it the Stir it up campgain and features the song, Stir It Up by Patti Labelle.

I pick Stir it up because it has a great beat and the next gen 2014 trucks from GM are sure to STIR UP THE COMPETITION in the pickup truck market!

It goes like this...

Nerves jump off the pavement, passion hits the street (this scene features Howie driving Silverado on the streets getting 26+ mpg - show Howie smiling and saying "wow" when he looks at the fuel economy readout)
Angels cookin' in the city heat
World's too crazy, I can't take no more (Howie goes to Home Depot and loads up on some lumber in this scene to show the awesome payload capability)
I won't stay here locked behind the door (This is where Howie breaks loose and really STIRS IT UP and goes off-road)
Baby, stir it up, got to break it up now (this scene shows Howie tearing it up off-road goign through mud)
When I think about tomorrow, ooh, I can't wait to
Stir it up, got to shake it up now
If I have to beg or borrow, I'm not gonna take it anymore, mmm, mmm (video ends here with a shot of the all new 2014 Silverado here - and Howie says Chevy is really stiring up the competition)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjO8AQPFQiA

Thoughts?

80's music will also appeal to the generation x and y customers you are looking to target with a new truck.

If Obama gets the big boot and gas prices go down to $2 or less, which they probably will, the $11k CNG option could be a bad buy! I will agree with you on that for once BUT HERE IS WHERE WE HAVE ABOUT HAD IT.

Thanks to you whiners Bvonscott is not going to post anymore inside info! Bvonscott writes:

Thats it Ive had it. All you so called fans do is whine and moan and complain about trucks that you know nothing about yet. You have no faith in GM. I hope all of you go buy a ford, the ugliest most uncomfortable truck on the road. Go get your flat sided 10+ year old body design with a new oversized ugly grill, a flat as a board seat with ugly as hecbrown "ranch" leather that hurts your back after 10 miles, crappy sync system that never works, engines and transmissions that already have shown to be as unreliable as the previous generation, and leave the real fans here alone. fordinsidenews is a click away. I am no longer going to post any inside info I have on the coming trucks public because of you whiners. I'll let nsap sort out what info he wants to post

Thats it Ive had it.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f22/must-haves-2014-silverado-sierra-109412/index19.html

I agree, the intial offering of a CNG vehicle is awfully expensive and the main purchaser will be commercial interests. Still, there are a lot of improvements coming down the pipe on CNG vehicles, such as 3M and Clean Energy teaming up to reduce the size and weight of the fuel containers. Still the benefits of CNG will eventually overtake the use of gasoline. Our country is sitting on the largest supply of natural gas in the world. Go to CNG Now on the internet and get caught up to speed on why we need to move away from gasoline and on to natural gas. The vehicles will improve.

1 gallon of gasoline has 114,000 Btu and costs ~$3.85
1MCF of natural gas has 1,000,000 Btu and is under $2.00

That is 8.7 times the energy in a gallon of gas for $2.00 or $.22 per gallon of gas equivalent.

The cost of CNG is going to come down drastically as more stations offer it. The glut ofNatural Gas will make this country energy independent if politicians don't ruin it!

Love the new CNG truck options.

@Greg - these trucks are being sold to fleet customers. Your truck is driven only by you. Put a fleet truck in the hands of 10 different drivers and the truck will not last long enough to get to the break even point. My brother's company lost three 1/2 ton Chevy's in 1 month due to abuse. They can't fire the guys because they are desperate for skilled staff. That is a big reason why many companies do not buy diesels, hybrids, or alternative fuel conversions. The trucks will not last. My brother's company truck is falling apart at 150,000 miles. They cheeped out and wouldn't let him replace it because he demanded a 3/4 ton but they were only buying 1/2 tons. I bet the payback on one of these systems is going to be higher than that. You keep your trucks long enough to get your money out of it. Most won't. The other points you fail to consider is that a highway truck will last much longer than a city truck, or a truck used off highway, and on job sites. Governments are the only ones buying based on what looks good to the public as opposed to private companies who buy based on return on investment.

I got one of these trucks (a sierra though) at a bank repo a couple years back. I used to drive Chevy's but they got so darned ugly. I didn't care much for the Sierra either but it was a little better looking and it was cheap so. I thought what the heck. It only had 30k on it though and already had piston slap in cold weather. At those complaining about the durability of these trucks, you are Not alone! That 09 Sierra was an absolute piece of junk. It was Made In Mexico! Which I didn't notice until later when waxing the inside of the door jam after a wash and read the tag. When I put some good winter tires on it I noticed the wheels said Made In China. I did a search on these trucks and found out the American parts content was Extremely low. And it really shows..

The sheetmetal was so flimsy you couldn't drive it through a carwash dryer without worrying the hood and roof would collapse. Here's a thread from GM's own truck website I found when searching on why the truck metal was so flimsy. It doesn't look like anyone is happy with these trucks. I kept it for a year and sold it. I bought a new Tacoma that was Made in America with something like 80-90% American parts content. It's pretty sad when you have to go to a foreign truck to get old fashioned American build quality. If I were to buy an all out fullsizer I would buy one of the new F-150's. My Tacoma has been a good truck though so I'll keep it awhile. The Buick-China connection doesn't surprise me one bit. That's probably how GM got their foot in the door and raided their cheap parts suppliers for these junk trucks. I wouldn't buy a Buick anyway. http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=119648

Thanks to you whiners Bvonscott is not going to post anymore inside info! Bvonscott writes:

- It must be that time of the month. She sounds like a whiny little girl bagging on Ford trucks like that. I don't think CNG will go far right now but I suppose it's a start (or restart). We do have alot of it. I agree though that the bed space it takes up just about makes a truck useless. I think that's it's biggest downfall provided the filling stations were out there in abundance for it. I remember lots of folks being scared in the 70's/80's about driving around 'with a bomb' under them. That's something that people would have to overcome for mass usage. I know our city busses use CNG though and we've never had an issue that I know of.

I'm buying one. Been saving thousands of with my CNG powered Civic and Tahoe with $1.49 fuel. OK provides tax credit for 50% of incremental costs because OK exports a ton of Natgas to other states and they want to get everyone going on CNG. Check for stations near you at CNGNow.com - if you don't have one nearby, move to OK!

Damn alot of jealous people in here today. lol

@johnny doe - you sound like Oxi. Unfortunately this thread has turned into a bashfest but the debate should focus on whether or not there is a return on investment. Jealous of what? considering Ford and Dodge have CNG partnerships and factory warranties covering those conversions.
If you happen to be like Craig and live in a CNG friendly area or Greg who puts tons of low stress highway miles on their trucks - then you probably have a sound investment case for 11,000 dollars extra on a pickup. The majority of us do not.

How does one know it's the best? By critics who are jealous that you are the best. Hence "stories" about, "my brother had a Chevy and it fell apart", "we went to Chevy's in our fleet and they all broke down". Nice try liars, facts are facts and GM trucks, while not always better that ford trucks, have been better in the last 20 yrs. Now they have surpassed fords HD status as best. There is a reason the general public has came up with witty put-downs of fords, Found on Road Dead, Fix Overhaul Repair Daily, Faulty Old Rusty Dog, Fumes, Oilless, Rotted, Dented, Foolish, Odd, Redneck, Drivers.
But all you ever hear from the general public when talking about Chevy is, "The longest lasting truck on the road. Sorry girls, the truth hurts doesn't it.

I think the car makers are starting to realize the importance of great looking rims and how they carry a lot of weight with the consumers. Just look at these!

Not enough to.compete with ram. gm going down in 2012!!!
GUTS GLORY RAM!!!

I could see the local natural gas utility company buying them, but they mostly use vans, and most pickups are half tons.... My guess when considering the extra costs, they'd likely make their normal purchases and fit them with CNG themselves like they normally do.

CNG vehicles have been used for decades by governments, transit and commercial companies. I keep up on the CNG movement and more and more companies are moving toward CNG for its low cost to use. Yes the initial cost is expensive, but so is a top-of-the-line truck. Over time you will benefit greatly from low cost fuel. Honda has for the last eight years been producing a Civic that runs on CNG and it meets the strongest requirements in the industry, California. States need to get involved in making the fuel more availble through tax credits. Then the automakers can kick up production. Also, the EPA and Dept. of Energy need to be more proactive about moving toward CNG and push the special interests aside. We don't need more government regulation in this move, we need less. CNG will make us energy independent. Gasoline refineries need to be retooled for diesel to bring that price down as well. Unleaded is on the way out, but desiel is needed for the long term. So quit moaning about build quality and see the future in CNG. Think jobs like automakers, construction and companies that can save money and think about hiring because they have converted their fleets over to CNG.

I like the idea of CNG. I suppose it will mostly be govt. fleets that buy them right now. There's not enough filling stations for the general public. The bed space that is taken up is a legitimate concern. I agree this truck isn't one of Chevy's better designs though. I can't wait until they get away from this bulging fender look and get back to something that looks more normal again. Some Ford interiors would be a godsend as well. I had to skip this generation for a truck purchase but my 07 Silverado classic is getting long in the tooth.

Not enough to.compete with ram. gm going down in 2012!!!
GUTS GLORY RAM!!!

Ramguy, cheerleaders make their cheers rhyme. Try again and don't rhyme ram with Ram.

These will be bought by governments/ municipalities.

Why? Because they only do local driving and they don't care about the cost. They can look like they're being so green when in fact they aren't and they're wasting taxpayer money.

Natural gas prices WILL go up once the speculators see an opportunity to make money on it.

@TJ:
How about: "I have a chevy and it fell apart?"

@TJ - like I've said in my posts , all of the guys I know that work with their trucks and pay for them out of their own pockets (with a few rare exceptions) are in Ford or Ram HD's. That is what I see in Northern and Central British Columbia (Canada just in case you don't know where that is) Sales figures back that comment in both the USA and Canada. Ford and Ram outsell Chevy HD trucks. Ford and Ram are probably no better or worse than Chevy, but there has to be a reason why Chevy is outsold 2:1 by Ford.

Staying out of the brand-bashing (they all have their faults) I am going to agree with the majority of the comments that this concept is a simple waste of time and money. If a company is going to use CNG, they're going to use it fleet-wide and they're not going to want to spend extra money on a hybrid system like this unless they absolutely have to. The reason these companies go CNG at all is probably that their fork lifts run CNG and it's simply cheaper to buy the fuel in bulk and use it across their fleet. The description above seems to imply it's primarily a gasoline fuel rig using CNG as a much shorter ranged backup system offering only about 100 miles or so more than gasoline alone. If anything, the concept should have been reversed, using a 10-gallon gasoline tank and a larger CNG tank as the primary. As such, I don't expect to see too many of these on the road.

As for the brand complaints, well, if you want a truck maybe you should stick to the older models of any brand; trying to lighten a rig that's meant for work means you're guaranteeing a much shorter life span as far as the body and maybe even the frame are concerned. Nearly every one of you has complained that the new trucks rust out far more quickly and take damage far more easily than the older ones. My 1990 F-150 seems to emphasize that fact even though its sheet metal isn't that much better--but at least it's all steel and galvanized for rust resistance. Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear (BBC UK) clearly pointed out that even the most popular brand today lacks for fit, finish and overall quality even if it is one of the most powerful pickups on the market. Honestly, if they don't turn that particular problem around I almost expect to see the Isuzu, Fiat, Sterling and other brands take over the American truck market for commercial use simply because they'll last longer.

Final note before you guys start riding me:

This argument about how the box takes up "so much bed space" is absolutely stupid. The image clearly shows that it takes up no more than 12" at the front of the bed, no more than any bed mounted tool box on average though it might (no proof either way in the photos) go all the way down to the bed floor, unlike many of those boxes. The truck shown looks like it has at least a 6' bed which means loss of bed space is really minimal.

@Lou, I can tell you it's the same here in the midwest. It used to be all Chevy's but now it's all Ford's. You can tell Ford is getting car sales off of their Truck loyalty. There's far more Ford cars and suv's on the roads here now too. Even local stockcar racers are running Ford's in big numbers from hobby stocks to late mods. Chevy used to dominate the racing circuit in the midwest. When Chevy trucks went downhill, they lost sales and they lost overall brand loyalty big time. They need to get their looks back, their build quality back, their US parts content back and they need to step up their interiors to compete with Ford and Dodge. While our local Chevy dealers are doing ok, they're ghost towns compared to the Ford dealers now. They really need a true Super Duty competitor also. That IFS/low frame stuff doesn't fly in the deep farm field ruts. You never see farmers using Chevy's anymore. Growing up, that's all you used to see. They all drive Super Duty's with the King Ranch now.

I also agree with other posts here and even that GM truck link. For HD and off road use, you can pinpoint Chevy's demise back to a few years after the SFA was yanked out of the 25/3500's. Dodge started getting some good sales traction there since they still had it in the 90's. Then once the dedicated HD Super Duty came out, Ford completely took over all things in the HD truck arena. That was the beginning. At the time though Chevy was riding high with their 1500 sales of that 90's Silverado. That was a Very popular truck here and still highly thought of. Once they came out with that 1999 truck though, things slowly started going downhill. Then Ford came out with their new 2004 while Chevy became a Chinese looking truck in 2003 that turned most people off. Being the 2004 Ford was a homerun and the Chevy at that time became a dud, Ford took over big time. So Ford is up over Chevy in both the HD market and the 1500 market within a year or two of that.. Chevy had a chance to fix it in 2007 but blew it. They just got even uglier and worse built. It's clear as could be from here exactly where and when Chevy went wrong and handed the market and brand loyalty reigns over to Ford.

Ford and Ram outsell Chevy HD trucks. Ford and Ram are probably no better or worse than Chevy, but there has to be a reason why Chevy is outsold 2:1 by Ford.

@Lou, it's not that Ford's are necessarily 'better' per say. They all run good and are plenty reliable. It's just that when you're spending 50-80k on a truck, you want the best of what's out there. Guys that buy 3/4 ton trucks want that SFA and tucked away frame rails. That's the #1 reason that Ford and Dodge own the HD market plain and simple. The #2 reason is both the Ford and Dodge look more appealing both in exterior design and interior quality and options. If Chevy is scratching their heads as to Why they don't get the sales Ford and Dodge do, they need to simply re-read this post. I just gave them Both reasons. They need to :

1)Tuck up those frame rails.
2)Put a SFA back underneath the front.
3)Design one hell of a good looking body & front end. Something that can't be denied.
4)Put the interior packages together that compete with Ford and Dodge. I already have laid them out numerous times here. Cheyenne, Scottsdale, Silverado Outlaw and maybe an Outlaw XL or Limited package.

5)Last but not least, gear up to build more Silverado trucks than you could have ever imagined because Those trucks would fly off lots. What they offer right now is simply undesirable.

@DaveJensen - I'd have to agree that from 2003 onward Chevy lost their way in the "looks" department. Ford kinda blew it with the 1998 - 2003 F150 but found their mojo with the 2004 F150. I do agree that the change over to a dedicated HD chassis was the final nail in the Chevy HD coffin. 2:1 sales advantage isn't a small sales gap. Even Dodge sells more HD's. The SFA and frame are the deal breakers for sure. I don't think that there is a huge reliablity gap between brands but perception of weakness in the HD ranks is enough to be a killer.
There was a CNG and propane boom of sorts in the '80's that died quickly. I know the conversions weren't costing 11,000. I was looking at aftermarket stuff recently in the range of 4,000 dollars. Even if you paid 2,000 for an install, why is this kit 11,000 ?
Is GM counting on government rebates?

@DaveJensen, you are 100% correct sir. Your train of thought is right on the tracks... It's the same here in MT. It's funny how the same thing with Chevy trucks has played out around the country. And sometimes I thought it was just here for some reason. The HD's (25-3500's) went downhill in the early 90's. Their 1500's went downhill in the early 2000's.. Your analysis is Dead On.

@FordTrucks1, I agree, they need to fix that stuff. I'm still driving my old Chevy but I'd never buy a new one and I've bought Chevy trucks since the 60's. They're poorly built and downright ugly now.

- It must be that time of the month. She sounds like a whiny little girl bagging on Ford trucks like that.

@BlueOval, I think that's a dude after reading that. Obviously a GMC driver so that explains the feminine tone. I've noticed that for years now. Most GMC owners are either women or guys who act like women (except for the ghetto Denali crowd). At least Chevy owners were still men who had balls. It also said the Sierra will be a looker instead of the Silverado. GM is dumber than I ever could have imagined... Will the Dodge Ram steamroll the Chevrolet Silverado into oblivion and claim the number 2 spot in sales? Oh hell yes. Chevy's done for after reading through that mess. C-ya Bowtie.

It also said the Sierra will be a looker instead of the Silverado

-Indeed, very dumb move if true. Those Buick-GMC lots will be a memory inside of 20 years. Chevrolet is all GM Really has left. To further errode their Chevrolet truck base is about the most mindless decision I've ever heard come from the company. I never bought GMC's nor would I. We did leave Chevrolet for Ford though for a new F-150 Platinum and a new Fusion. Those would have both been Chevrolet sales if the Silverado was up to par. I've always bought Chevrolet's for years before this. Surely I'm not the only one of this type. I couldn't even begin to come back to Chevrolet until they get their trucks up to the level Ford is at. I couldn't even imagine buying GM stock after reading this. This is a very poor decision.

I see this got off topic so I want to chime in alittle. I've noticed it seems the GM trucks hold there resale better then the fords. I could of got a ford with a diesel for almost the same price I got my vortec for a few years ago and a 5.4 with less miles for less money. The diesel I heard was junk and the 5.4 at the time didn't seem to put the power to the ground like the vortec and from what I've seen they start to sound like junk with some miles on them. My 6.0 ran me 50000 miles never let me down and still started no problem and sounded good with 120000 miles. Then I noticed the same thing when I bought my duramax. I could of got a 6.4 ford with less miles for less money. I didn't like what I heard about the 6.4 and my Chevy did great so I waited for a duramax that I liked to come my way.

@MikeH, Ford's have a much better resale value here. Chevy's used to but not anymore. You're right though, the old 5.4 was a dog. The 6.0's in my experience have serious piston slap issues though. As for CNG in any truck - Eh.

What took you guys so long to stop buying Chevy's? We stopped buying Chevy in the late 90's. The choice was obvious even back then.

What took you guys so long to stop buying Chevy's? We stopped buying Chevy in the late 90's. The choice was obvious even back then.

@Dean, yep, so did I. My last Silverado was a 95. I drove my 84 through highschool and then bought a new one in 90 and another new 95 model in late 94. The 99 came out and I thought they ruined it. If you got a 2wd it sat so low to the ground it looked like a lowrider. They ruined the Silverado with the 99 model and just made it worse with the 03 front clip. The 07's and up are beyond horrid. Bought a new SD with the King Ranch package in 99 and never looked back. After I owned it I got into Ford big time and never looked back. GM has really drove Chevrolet into the ground.



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