CNG Test Drive: Ford F-250 SD Bi-Fuel
GM and Ram drew quite a bit of attention at the 2012 NTEA show by announcing bi-fuel compressed-natural-gas heavy-duty trucks sold through their fleet and commercial networks. For comparison’s sake, we note that the Chevy Silverado 2500 HD can be ordered through any dealer, but it does need to be shipped to Impco for the alternative-fuel retrofit.
The Ram HD 2500 will be built on the production line in Mexico. So technically, it will be the first of the major players to offer a factory-installed bi-fuel CNG option. However, many don’t know that Ford’s bifuel CNG program has been in place for several years, and its supplier, Westport Inc., is just feet away from the Kentucky plant production line that makes the Super Duty.
In addition to the fact these types of bi-fuel strategies will comfortably extend the range between fill-ups by, in some cases, hundreds of miles, there is the issue that CNG typically costs less than half of the cost of gasoline for a gallon-equivalent amount of fuel. (CNG, as the name suggests, is a gas.) Also, with our increased desire to become more oil independent, it makes sense that options like compressed and liquid natural gas (both of which we have huge supplies of within our borders), as well as propane (or Autogas) are going to become more and more popular.
Obviously, a changeover to or inclusion of something with a weaker infrastructure will take time to create. Even in a huge metropolitan area like Los Angeles, there are only about four-dozen filling stations available to general consumers. Thankfully, there are websites that let you know where the closest one is, as well how much fuel costs. We did all our research at www.altfuelprices.com.
Time for a Test Drive
With all the attention on these new vehicles and the discussion about CNG or LPG or Autogas being our best hope for a smooth and cost-effective transition away from excessive fossil-fuel use, we thought we’d get a hold of one of the most popular players in the segment and see how it performs in some real-world driving and commuting.
Our test vehicle was a 2011 Ford Super Duty SuperCab 4x4 with a Wesport Wing Power Systems bi-fuel conversion. Just in case anyone might not be able to distinguish the huge 18-gallon (gasoline equivalent) tank in the bed, which takes up about 30 percent of the bed space, Ford decided to put stickers all over the vehicle to make sure no one could possibly miss the fact this is a bi-fuel truck with a range of up to 650 miles. Thankfully, we had it over the Memorial Day weekend, so most people just assumed we were headed to or coming from some parade, entered as a float.
How It Works
Here’s how the Westport system works: A previously identified and box-checked Super Duty is scheduled for the CNG bi-fuel install. Westport, as a top-tier supplier for Ford, is allowed to have an on-site facility to make all the non-Ford mods and changes. For all practical purposes, this is a factory install.
The Westport system (Download F250 Westport Wing) comes with a three-year/36,000-mile warranty for the tank, fuel filler, CNG lines and gauge, and it offers a five-year/50,000-mile warranty on the fuel control module and pressure regulator, as well as the CNG fuel injectors and wiring harness. All of the Ford warranties apply to the rest of the vehicle.
The bi-fuel system costs $9,750 for the basic system with an 18.5-gallon tank and $10,950 for the larger 24-gallon setup.
A bi-fuel system, obviously, provides two sources of energy to rely on. The fuel system is biased to CNG, meaning that it will always start and run on CNG as long it is in the tank. When CNG runs empty, the system transparently switches over to gasoline. The CNG gauge sits to the right of the air-conditioning controls and looks completely factory. Blue indicator lights let you know how much CNG is in the tank, and you will not see your gasoline gauge move until it begins to flash just before it is empty.
We drove almost 150 miles on three-quarters of a tank of CNG, watching the F-250 calculate our average mpg up, up and up. We should note, assuming you reset the computer after a CNG fill-up, your Ford computer readout will not calculate your fuel economy higher than 99.9 mpg. We have to say it is interesting to drive a good distance without seeing any movement from the gas gauge, but there are some noticeable differences when driving in CNG mode.
What’s the Difference?
There is a noticeable decrease in throttle response and an overall feeling that you have a little less power at your disposal. The launch of the truck from a dead stop feels like you are carrying more load than you know is on or in the truck. Still, the 6.2-liter V-8 feels capable and sufficient to move you around town empty without any problems, but we’d be cautious if pulling or hauling heavier loads.
As our CNG ran out, we strained to observe the exact moment the truck switched over to gas, and we could not. We did happen to be on the highway, and according to the trip computer, which calculates exactly how much gasoline we use, we could see the exact moment when the computers detected the switch to gasoline, but we felt nothing. We can say that driving the truck around town on gasoline on many of the same streets we’d driven under CNG power, we could notice a slight jump in performance feel and response. But to test our butt dyno, we decided to take the truck to a real dyno shop and see exactly what the power differences were. Thankfully, our friends at K&N Engineering were able to squeeze us in on their DynoJet, and we found exactly what we’d predicted.
On the Dyno
Because the Westport system prioritizes CNG, we ran the tank completely empty, running on gasoline. We dynoed the truck on gas as a baseline run, then immediately ran to our nearest public CNG filling station (which happened to be just three miles away) and filled up the 18.4-gallon tank. The station noted that it would only fill to the 3,000-psi mark, which turned out to be 14 gallons when the pump shut off, reading our tank as full. Our tank, on the other hand, was rated to read full at 3,600 psi. Our CNG fuel gauge inside the truck clearly read three-quarters full and at $1.83 per gallon, we spent just over $25 to “fill” the tank. We assume this filling station had a lower maximum pressure for some kind of safety or local fleet-specific reason, though it does seem odd this isn’t all standardized yet.
After our CNG fill-up experience, we headed back to K&N and ran the Super Duty on the dyno again, this time running on CNG. The comparison numbers, as suspected, were interesting and not surprising. Maximum horsepower on gasoline with our 6.2-liter V-8 was 302 at 5,750 rpm, while max horsepower on CNG was 263 at 5,750 rpm, a decrease of about 15 percent. Torque number variations were almost identical as well, with the maximum on gas measuring 307 pounds-feet at 4,750 rpm and 261pounds-feet at 5,000 on CNG, or a drop of about 18 percent.
System Awareness
The overall weight of our test truck was a bit on the heavy side at 7,400 pounds (with both tanks full), which isn’t likely to surprise anyone given the extra tank, mounting bracketry, extra plumbing and hoses, and external shielding included in the Westport conversion. The extra set of injectors and small mechanical changes in the engine do not amount to any significant weight addition. It’s worth noting that a system like this will require some special care, attention and understanding.
The system is fully warrantied from both Westport and Ford, but you can’t just fill the gasoline tank and never use it again, as much as you’d love to keep your gas tank full all the time. Generally speaking, many experts suggest not leaving gas unused in a tank for more than a few months. After that time, there could be significant degradation and oxidation that could reduce the effectiveness of the fuel in the combustion chambers as well as gum up or clog injectors. Westport suggests it would probably be good practice to run a tank of fuel through the truck every month or two. As long as you or your fleet manager can keep track of that, the lines and injectors should continue to work efficiently.
Fill-Up Experience
It may take consumers a little more time to get used to filling up the tank, especially since there are so few public-access CNG filling stations around. We live near one of the most densely populated metro areas in the country with 7 million people, and only 50 CNG fueling stations are within a 60-mile radius. And as you might guess, the numbers dwindle as you venture beyond the heavily populated areas and move across the country. Clearly, the CNG infrastructure has a lot of improving to do, especially for long-trip use. For those suffering from range anxiety in any form, we have no doubt that’s exactly why so many of the new CNG vehicles you’re hearing about are looking to bifuel options to extend the range rather than limit it like some of the electric-only options do.
The station we used was locked behind a heavy gate that would open only with a working credit card that you slide into a card-reader box. Once inside, the pump nozzle fits onto the truck’s nipple flange that sits right next to the gas filler, inside the fuel door. Thankfully, all Super Dutys use the same extended fuel door that diesel-equipped trucks use to hold the diesel tank filler and diesel exhaust fluid filler. This turns out to be the perfect amount of room to put both a gas filler and CNG fitting.
The CNG pump has a lanky set of tubes and a very un-ergonomic handle that mechanically clamps onto the nipple filler. Once it latches and starts pumping, there are whirs and groans and pops that make you fully understand what it means to push highly compressed gases through several small openings. It’s not difficult by any stretch, but the noises are a little unnerving. It took about four minutes to fill the 14 gallons, and the system tells you, both on a display screen and with a resounding clunk when the compressor shuts off, that you will not be putting any more fuel in this tank.
Disconnecting the handle is a little like what I imagine the NASA engineers have to do with the space shuttle right before they close the hatch on the astronauts, topping off the liquid nitrogen tanks. The small amount of CNG we could smell was not unpleasant, but there were warning labels all over the pumps that told us to evacuate the area if you sense any leak or impending ruptures.
Our first-ever CNG fillup took us about 20 minutes to get in and out of the station, but we did have to take a few photos and read through all the scrolling directions on the pump’s display.
Final Thoughts
To fill both tanks, we spent about $100, $75 of which was for almost 17 gallons of gasoline at Santa Barbara, Calif., prices (notoriously some of the most expensive in the state), with another $25 to fill up our single 18-gallon CNG tank. Under normal city and highway combined driving styles, we got about 130 miles on CNG before we went another 300 miles or so on gasoline before topping off again.
Calculated out on a per-mile basis, the CNG gave us 19.2 cents per mile, while the gasoline returned 25.2 cents per mile. Clearly, there are still some power, range and efficiency issues to work out with this type of alternative fuel system, but as a bifuel strategy, it worked pretty well for us.
We especially like the extra range; we like being able to watch the gas gauge sit at the “full” level for miles and miles; we really liked the CNG prices we found close by; and we liked the invisibility of the changeovers from CNG to gas.
Pricing for the commercial systems—which is mainly where they are being used—isn’t unreasonable, especially when you figure out your specific duty cycle and determine you’ll be making your money back in two, three or four years, depending on usage. However, if this is going to get popular with the regular truck-buying consumers, more access is going to be the most important factor.
Comments
What I'm getting here is you can't make it run on gasoline unless all the CNG is depleted? I think I would want to use CNG for empty load and gas for tow/haul. With out that option.... I'm out.
Several issues need to be worked out.
"Stale" gasoline is something that has been worked out for 2stroke's with an additive. Not that easy with this complicated set-up.
I'm still amazed how far behind the US in certain things, when I was still living in Holland we had cars running on LPG since the late seventies! From what I remember, LPG was like one quarter the price of gasoline in the early nineties. Don't get me wrong!, I've been living in the US for more then 13 years now and have no desire to move back to Europe!
Interesting. I like the price to fill CNG but it really took a bite out of your fuel economy. However, I didn't think it would be that bad.
Looks like around 170k miles on CNG before you break even. That's a lot of 130 mile CNG tank refills.
I wonder if you could hook up some kind of turbo, or supercharger system to make up for the difference in HP/TQ? even more than make up for the loss, hehe. I seam to recall an article somewhere, maybe evn here, about Ford engineering a V-10 to run on hydrogen, it had a nice twin-scroll typ blower on it to make up for the diff. in power.
In my area, you could get a home fueling station and pump your own for $0.82/gge. The disadvantage is that they must pump overnight because they work so slow. However, Compared to $3.70 locally for a gallon of gasoline, there's significant savings to be had. If you get 15mpg on gasoline, that works out to 24.6 cents per mile. Assuming a 15% reduction in mileage using the CNG, at 12.75mpg, a mile on CNG would cost you 6.4 cents. After 100,000 miles, you will have spent $24,600 on gasoline, or $6,400 on CNG. Generally speaking, CNG burns a lot cleaner than gasoline and you could go longer between oil changes, reducing maintenance costs as well.
Congrats to RAM for being the first factory Bi fuel CNG option.
GUTS!
GLORY!
RAM!
There are 1050 CNG stations and 50 LNG stations in this country and their list is growing fast. Soon they will be everywhere that we dont need to worry about fuel.
In the days to come, the gas prices will increase faster while CNG will remain the same. For those companies who drive less than 130 miles / day, this is virtually CNG Truck.
Also some companies are converting trucks to run on Electricity. So Natgas, Electricity are getting there competing head to head.
@Ken - 170,000 miles isn't an unreasonable expectation for a commercial vehicle. In some operations under extreme use conditions, CNG or diesel trucks are a waste of money as they never will live long enough to get to the break even point. Government fleets are about the only ones who would be more concerned about eating the cost based on public relations.
No doubt about it Lou, they'd want the pay back for the investment.
The problem here is they'd need to exclusively use and fill that smallish CNG tank which unfortunately doesn't last long. You could argue the CNG fleet could be refilled every night but that's a chore in itself. Add to that, a pickup bed capacity with 30% missing volume and one wonders why they need a full-size pickup in the first place.
Congrats to Ram for being the first company to have the GUTS to build all of their heavy duty trucks in Mexico!
GUTS GLORY RAM!
Let's not confuse CNG (methane) with LPG (propane).
CNG is used by many countries, particularly government subsidised inner city bus runs.
CNG would be better used replacing oil central heating units and using that heating oil for diesel.
Also, the NA becoming independent for energy? I think Canada has the US by the gonads. Without your very friendly neighbour to the north the US will not become energy independent. Really, if there is more money sending the oil to China.........business is business.
derp burp Guts Glory Ram derp derp. I live my life according to a marketing slogan cuz I to dum to know any better.
Notice the approach angles in the photos...
Do you think they will ever improve the approach angles? These HD trucks are just asking to get hit by simple things like a tire or rusty muffler lying in the road...
One thing with Natural Gas is that your engine lasts longer and runs cleaner !!!
In Canada we had natural gas vehicles since the 1970's ,though rare (propane was once popular as well) and once again despite the loss in power the natural gas vehicles run extremely clean and the engine lasts and lasts it is better than any diesel for longevity !
One thing that killed natural gas was homes started using natural gas and the price went up ten fold,so the conversion costs didnt add up for many plus the lower gas mileage (but a major pro your engine runs clean and wont need a rebuild after many years of hard service/abuse at least in our Dodge trucks we used back then lasted longer than any GM/Ford gas or diesel truck around,we even didnt do tune ups ect on a few of our n.g trucks and they passed emissions easily and ran great ! With over 500,000 miles on a non rebuilt gas 318 (5.2) and 360 (5.9 ) V-8 engines ! We had a few carb models mid 80's and natural gas was hard on the carb,dried them out fast,but on efi works great !
Now you can rarely find a fueling station,12 years ago it was easily found at gas stations..now I have not seen a natural gas fueling station in years ! Yes,you can get a set up to fuel from your house or business,but when you are on the road and need a station you are s.o.l !!
Supply and demand the demand is high,the price goes up...that ruined natural gas here for vehicles !!
Conversion costs,needed heavy duty suspension added leafs as the tanks are extrememly heavy,lower gas mileage,lower power,performance but it does pay if you drive alot again I cant stress how good it is on a engine,they passed emissions easily with high mileage and next to 0 maintenance,it was/is unreal how good it is ! Just for the wear/realiabilty factor its worth it !
LPG has a higher octane rating than petrol/gas, so you can increase the compression ratio, or bolt a turbo or supercharger and claw back the performance drop that way. But with CNG, I'm not sure. Anyone know ?
With LPG, the gas is homogenous almost the moment it's introduced to the incoming air in the engine, and doesn't "wash away" the oil on the cylinder walls as petrol/gas or diesel does. Likewise, there's little or no contamination lubrication oil, hence lower maintenance issues !
Anyone remember Pat Ganahl's book on LPG for hot rodders ?
$9,600? I'm out.
Guts Glory Third Place.
I have lots of natural gas lol I am flaming through the pipes lol too funny I can go on .Let er rippppp lol
CNG is a great way to go with fleets. Our city trucks all run CNG. Filling stations is the biggest issue followed as mentioned by price control. Once CNG became a hot commodity you can bet speculators will drive the price through the roof. As a side note, I just love the way those Super Duty trucks look. The round wheel openings and that tucked away frame just make it look so sharp. Just seeing that second picture up top reminds me of why it's the best selling HD on the road. Chevy really screwed up with this bodystyle and that low slung frame. I wish they'd fix those things and be more like they used to be like Ford is now. As a Chevy guy, if I bought a HD it would have to be a Ford. I just hate the drop down frames on the Chevy. I don't mind the IFS but the low slung frame is a deal killer for me. It needs to be tucked away up high.
Would'nt a diesel engine make more sense than a gas engine for bi-fuel. 1) diesel has a much longer shelf life than gas. 2) the cng would clean all the egr junk on diesel engines these days. 3) you could probably inject small amounts of cng with the diesel to give more performance and a cleaner more efficient burn??
But nothing that makes sense goes in this country anymore.
Just fleecing the consumer as much as possible.
A diesel hybrid makes the most sense as well. A small diesel engine to power vehicle and charge batteries.
"derp burp Guts Glory Ram derp derp. I live my life according to a marketing slogan cuz I to dum to know any better."
LOL.
As for the truck. I think for most people the payback is just not there. Just like buying a hybrid car. You can buy a lot of gas for the premium you pay to get the hybrid version of the same car. Spending dollars to save penny's.
Roger on Mega $$ to save pennys. the extra $10K for cng buys roughly 34000 miles worth of petrol at $3.50 a gal & 12mpg on that thirsty 6.2L
What would make the most sense is a small diesels in 1/2ton trucks, suvs, cars etc. The rest of the world gets to purchase very fuel efficient diesels for their cars and trucks but not us. Why ?? How can a smaller engine that uses half the fuel be worse for the environment?? Its not, just would cut to much profits from oil and auto companies.
I forgot, the Gubb-Ment will buy these up. Its not there $$ so who cares !! The Gubb-ment are experts at spending trillions to maybe save a few pennys. And or this vehicle makes the EPA happy. Again why not small fuel efficient diesels for the fleet trucks that are mostly 2wd stripper versions that dont weigh as much as the King leer lariat and dont need 800lb ft of torque??
What happened to all the great simple straight sixes we had in 60s & 70s. Chevy brought it back in a few suvs in late 90s. Was hoping it would make it in a half ton but of course not.
cmon, that's all I owned up until I bought my very first brand new half-ton truck in 1988. Having owned a slew of used trucks with a straight six and three on the tree, I didn't know what paradise was like until I bought that '88 Silverado 350 with the automatic, AC and power everything.
But I have to wonder if for those that need a 3/4-ton or heavier $11K in added expense is worth it, since you can buy a lot of gasoline or diesel with that $11K.
To me it seems that you're already behind $11K before you even go anywhere.
And I'm not alone in this. I know several people my age, traveling Elk and Scottish Rite Masons among them, who tow a travel trailer year 'round, and the ones I have talked to told me that they'll stay with their F250, F350, 2500 or 3500 and current engine setup.
Two guys I know tow fifth-wheels with an F250 V10 and they're not in favor of switching to bi-fuel CNG either.
It remains to be seen if there are a sufficient number of serious drivers to make this option worthwhile for any manufacturer.
If I ever were to need a 3/4-ton or heavier, I'd rent one for the duration and wouldn't care what engine it came with.
I remember when I was discharged from U.S.Army in 1976, I was hicthhicking from Ft. Carson CO. and was picked up by an old retired Master Sgt. in Nowhere Kansas, he war driving a 1968 F-250, reg cab (only ones then) 4X4 with a cap on the back, I looked in the bed from the rear window and was horrorfied to see what looked like Fat Man (atomic bomb droped on Japan)!!! sitting back there, he started laughing and told me tha the truck also ran on propane! and that was his tank! it took up 1/3 of the bed, and between that and the 26gal gas tank he drove all the way to Pittsburg PA, and I offered to split the gas with him, it was like 1200 miles and we only had to fill up a couple times! he said that is what he was doing now, selling propane and propane acc. and he did the confersion himself! and when he only ran propane (at his base of operations) it was almost free! and he never almost never had to change his oil, I'm not sure what he had under the hood, but the truck ran strong, but remember the speed limit back then was only 55, but he was getting good mpg! I never forgot that guy, or the truck. If it could be done then, at home in his garage, why not now?
@RonCarrol CNG is used for City buses etc. LPG is more user friendly and can be made as powerful as Petrol. It does NOT stop Businesses and Government jacking up the prices when both become popular.
sandman4X4, a lot of ranchers and farmers in MY area use LPG to run their trucks. ALL of the trucks that deliver Propane gas to their customers run on LPG, and that includes the personal trucks of the employees.
Propane is a by-product of the oil-refining process and is, in essence, a freebie. There a some negligible costs in compressing it and cooling it to turn it into a liquid (LPG) but everybody that handles the propane wants a piece of the action and that's where the other costs come in.
In MY area a 15-pound tank refill of LPG for the BBQ costs $10, but a 500-pound tank of LPG is only about $200, much of that in delivery costs for driving that big honkin' tanker truck to fill up the tank at the customer's place.
Larger tanks, like those used to power emergency AC generators at hospitals and military bases are even more economical to fill up.
We have several oil fields and refineries in New Mexico so it isn't like they have to haul that gas in from great distances.
But Propane or LPG is not the same as CNG or LNG which is a natural gas, not a byproduct of an oil refinery like Propane.
The problem I see with CNG is the cost of building the accumulators in which to store the gas, 3 600psi is very significant. These tanks will cost. LPG can be stored as a liquid which is denser.
yea like I said this was in the 70's, and I never found out about where propne comes from, so thanks for that info, so wioth that said, and where I live propane is even more than gas. so that wouldn't be very smart at the time. But nat gas would be a nice way to go, and I bet y it would have the same advatages as propane, ie cleaner exhaust, and less oil changes.
Why hasn't CNG been seriously considered up to this point? The USA has some of the world's largest reserves of natural gas, and we're stupid if we don't use it to power our vehicles.
I figured out once that I'm putting $3,000 a year in diesel in my SuperDuty, and I'm pretty sure all of that money is going to the oil company, Mexico, and Venezuela (that's where we get a lot of our oil). It astounds me that there's a technology that makes it possible to keep all $3k right here in the USA, and yet we're not using it.
All these issues can be overcome - why isn't the government subsidizing these trucks instead of electric cars that no one wants (like the Volt).
I looked this up in relation to where USA oil comes from.
The top 5 are:
USA.............. 38.8%
Canada......... 15.1%
Saudi Arabia.. 8.1%
Mexico......... 8.1%
Venezuela.... 5.9%
Looks like those Northern Canuckistan shieks have you by the short and curly's.
Invade Canada......
Invade Canada......
LOL
The most important comment on the site I looked at is this:
"In terms of global oil prices, analysts say the source of the oil isn't all that important."
"Anybody who follows the oil industry will tell you that it doesn't make any difference where the oil comes from," says Keith Crane, an energy expert at RAND Corp.
"John Duffield, energy expert at Georgia State University:
People have tended to exaggerate how much oil we imported from the Middle East. In the long term, it may look like a historical anomaly that the U.S. became so involved in the Persian Gulf."
"Global oil markets are so intertwined, Crane says, that changes in any one part of the system can trigger effects elsewhere."
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised
Natural Gas Octane Equivalent = 130
Ford has the PERFECT engine for Bi-Fueling natural gas, 3.5L EcoBoost! By increasing turbo boost when on NatGas it would make up for the lower calorie count and would give the same or better HP and Torque.
The BIG problem faced by the manufacturers is the storage tank(s). 1/3 of the box?!? Yikes!
Chrysler had a prototype Charger in the late 90's that seemed to have solved the storage tank issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Charger_R/T_(1999_concept)
-Did not eat up any trunk space! Maybe it's time to have another look at what they were doing...
ford need to fix the frame and the suspension not the engine wow everytime we put the trailer we spot the airplane..
Mark, those torque curves look like they are from a diesel or the turboed charged Ecoboost with peaks at 2500 rpm, not a naturally aspirated V-8. Is something wrong?
Looks like a cool car! I'm sure the little issues will get worked out as CNG cars become more popular. You'll have to look back in a few years!
So what happened to 650+ mile range?
Or was that just bravo sierra?
I have 60K mi on my 2011 F250. Recently my company had the retrofit CNG conversion installed. We are a company that contracts work to many of the Marcellus Shale drilling company's. I was glad to further support the industry I work in getting this alt fuel setup. However, I am not one to drive slow and the decrease in power was disappointing. On the highway I could not tell weather or not I was on CNG or gas. Driving around town or towing any trailer the difference is without a doubt noticeable. Biggest complaint I have is the loss of bed space. I had an 8ft bed before now it is more like a shortbed. I think a turbo setup to go with the CNG to make up the power loss would be a great idea. As a result wen running on gasoline the turbo would add efficiency as well. I agree w the suspension comment also... The space stations are tired of seeing my headlights wen I'm towing a trailer! Soon Chevy will fix up the vortec with this setup and blow the big blue oval and goat out of the water like usual
Westport Wing is NOT the official CNG partner for Ford. That is either an error in research or a misrepresentation. There are several authorized Ford CNG affiliates with systems that are equally good or better then the Westport product, and which have the same authorized access, engineering, and full integration into the Ford power controls. Among them is the PowerFuel CNG system, which was the originator of this OEM integrated approach for the F-Series. Probably this article should be updated by the editors to reflect this reality...unless it wants to knowingly partake in one company's marketing overstatement!
The use of duel fuels at the same time while pulling large loads would provide the power requirements at the same time providing lower fuel cost.
Using gasoline as the primary fuel with CNG as the submittal fuel will proved the power when required.
This should only require a change to the controller module’s program.
In our town of Santa Barbara, Ca. all the trash trucks run on
CNG. Marborg. They got smart.
In our town of Santa Barbara, Ca?
I have diesel and get 18 miles per gallon. Diesel is running 4 dollars a gallon here.
CNG is running 1.30 a gallon here. If my calculations are right I am spending .22 cents a mile for diesel and I think I will be spending about .09 cents a mile for CNG. At that rate I will save $9000.00 for every 100 thousands miles I drive.
I am going to go look at making my own Biodiesel now.
Is Ford coming out with aCNG for 2014?
I have a new ford and it wont run on cng for very long. Any ideas why this is or does it have a break in period
My friend just brought his F250 2002 diesel over. He hard been running 2/3 CNG to 1/3 diesel for 200,000 miles. He now lives in AZ we currently have 3 locations that sell CNG in the Phoenix area. I have CNG @ my home. I did the math based on 68 cents per gallon equivalent on CNG. $.09 per gallon combined using the same ratio, 1200 miles between fillups. He bought it after the conversion. Major Question, why in the hell Ford, Chevy and Dodge diesel engine, CNG optimized coming off the line at a "million" a day with the CNG home compressor sitting in the back as a lovely parting gift? Include free installation at the house using the government rebate and OPEC can go take a flying leap. Just wondering? It's real, it increases hp and toque by some 100 hp 100 fps, the diesel engine runs cooler and your biggest worry is wearing out the leather on the drivers seat. Questions call me @ 480-251-2469
In 1979 I converted my 78 Lincoln Town Car to straight propane. It had the 7.5 L engine and my conversion cost about $1000. I had a 20" tank in the well of the trunk, a 12" tank manifolded to a 10" tank where the spare used to be, and I replaced my gasoline tank under the car, with another 12" tank. I used electrically operated valved to switch from one tank to another. I could carry about 85 gallons of fuel, and I weighed the car one time with a full load of fuel - the weight was 140 Lbs short of 3 tons. That's a lot of weight to carry around, but I did not notice much power. Remember the gas problems we had in he late 70s where you had to stand in line for hours and could only buy fuel on alternate days. The prince of gasoline at that time was about $1.50 a gallon, and I was paying $0.77 a gallon for my propane. Now, it's 2014 and I am considering anther vehicle to convert - a 1997 F250 truck - which is the last year Ford
put the 7.5 L (460 cu in) in ANY of their vehicles. The price of gasoline in my area (Denver) is running at or above $3.33 a gallon. I called my local propane dealer and asked what he'd charge me for propane if I bought all my fuel from him. He quoted me $2.20 per gallon, so there will be a significant cost reduction in fuel cost. I need to do a total cost of the conversion and then figure out total cost to run the truck for, say, 5 years and determine my total cost saving overall. i.e. amortize the cost of the conversion over 5 years and calculate the amount of savings in fuel over that time, to get an overall cost reduction amount.
I am fully aware of the fact that propane has about 10-15% less power than gasoline has, but when I ran my Lincoln on it, I barely noticed any difference in it's performance. I was able to drive from the LA area up the West Coast and back on straight propane and I didn't find any problem obtaining any fuel. I had purchased a listing of all the propane dealers in the US and fill up at any of their locations, with no problems. At one point, I missed the turn-off to go to a propane dealer, so I just kept going rather than turn back. When I got near my destination, I was very low on fuel, so I just went to a KOA campground and purchased enough fuel so I could get to my destination and get fuel at a dealership. Places to fill up on propane - rather than LNG - are all over the US and easy to get to. Just look up propane dealers near where you are and go there. Nowadays, you can probably look it up on your cell phone or tablet computer.
I plan to purchase a 1997 F250 and also install 3 tanks in it - a 20' diameter tank in he bed of the truck and a pair of 12' diameter tanks where the present gas tanks are located. Once gain I will us electrically operated valves to change between tanks. I'll be using my 7.5 L engine which was in the Lincoln and has now been modified by boring it out 0.060 oversize, using flat topped pistons, and a Lunati cam. The increase in power will be helpful for he propane's 10% less power.
My LPG irrigation unit burns the same amount of dollars as diesel at these prices. 3.30 diesel 1.4 LPG . My semi burns a LPG diesel mix. Awesome power gain. Economics are only slightly better.
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