Tundra Tugs Space Shuttle Without a Hitch

A Tundra Tug 2 II

By now you've seen the YouTube posts and news stories about the Endeavour space shuttle being transported through 12 miles of Los Angeles city streets. The event took about 17 hours longer than city and transportation officials anticipated, and it required some on-the-spot tree trimming to squeeze past a few narrow sections.

The Endeavour is now being housed at the California Science Center near the campus of USC, just south of downtown Los Angeles. The shuttle will eventually be displayed in its upright takeoff position.

We had the chance to see the shuttle up close Friday night when a fully loaded (unmodified) Toyota Tundra Limited CrewMax 4x4 towed the stripped-down shuttle over the Manchester Boulevard Bridge over the 405 Freeway, a central artery of Los Angeles. The freeway was closed in both directions for several minutes before the tow took place, to prevent any freeway collisions that could occur while the shuttle moved across the overpass.

The shuttle was parked at La Cienega and West Manchester boulevards for several hours as workers and city officials oversaw the switching of the trailer systems. Once hooked up to the Endeavour, the Tundra was piloted by professional stunt driver Matt McBride (whom you might recognize from a series of other death-defying Tundra commercials) and astronaut Garrett Reisman, who was taken to the International Space Station in Endeavour and spent 95 days in space. 

A Tundra pin

The actual towing the Tundra did with the shuttle took only four minutes, but it required some thoughtful prep. The tow hitch was modified to accommodate a specially designed drop pin. Also, since there would be no weight on the rear end of the truck, Toyota put a 1,700-pound weight in the back to give the rear tires some force for grip. Finally, the tire pressures were lowered to give the treads as much contact patch as possible. Once the prep was finished, all the driver had to do was put the truck into low range, drop it into 1st gear and keep the rpm steady. 

The actual distance the truck and trailer had to navigate was only about 300 yards, but as with most well-engineered bridges, there was a bit of a crown to it, so the pull up the initial front side of the bridge and back up the downhill section on the other side were the biggest challenges for the driver and truck. "The only point I felt the Tundra had to work a little harder was going back up the hill on the far side of the bridge. It was pulling pretty hard," McBride said.  

A Tundra bumper sticker II

The Tundra "big-pull" event was well-documented with video, camera crews and TV commercial filming. We're likely to see the footage in a series of Toyota commercials and possibly other media as well. Likewise, you can bet that local and national dealerships will use this historic opportunity to sell more trucks. In fact, we saw at least two different bumper stickers on the famous tow truck taking a jab at its half-ton competition.

Additionally, the actual Toyota Tundra that pulled the Endeavour will also end up at the California Science Center (dontated by Toyota), taking the place of a first-gen Tundra at the entrance of the museum, which gives a real-world, interactive demonstration of leverage (or fulcrums) to attendees. We expect more information to follow.

For more photos from the evening's events, go to the PickupTrucks.com Facebook page.  

A Tundra Tug



Hey HEMI V8,

STFU already you dumbass!

@Mike - perhaps I should quote your constitution?

Article the third [Amendment I]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Article the eleventh [Amendment IX]

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Basically - you cannot use freedom of speech to deny the rights of others.
Invariably - threads about Toyota end up with some racist, nationalistic, and ignorant posts.
One can exercise their freedom of speech if done responsibly.
Inciting hate is a crime and therefore negates ones "freedom of speech".

The USA currently is in trouble. Around 25% of what the USA government spends per year is borrowed money.
China and Japan own 1/2 of your debt.
China, India, and Japan will soon move into the top 3 global spots as economic powerhouses. That is not their fault and that is what I refer to when I say "look into the mirror", that "looking into the mirror" also applies to "hateful" or "ignorant" comments. We were all foreigners once. Look in the mirror or at your family tree.

If you feel I am talking down to you, that is unfortunate. Educate yourself and that sensation will go away!

@Mike - that poem from Emma Lazarus, it is on a bronze plaque in the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty at Ellis Island.

Do you know what the Statue of Liberty represents?

The Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World; French: La Liberté éclairant le monde) is a colossal neoclassical sculpture on Liberty Island in New York Harbor, designed by Frédéric Bartholdi and dedicated on October 28, 1886. The statue, a gift to the United States from the people of France, is of a robed female figure representing Libertas, the Roman goddess of freedom, who bears a torch and a tabula ansata (a tablet evoking the law) upon which is inscribed the date of the American Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776. A broken chain lies at her feet. The statue is an icon of freedom and of the United States: a welcoming signal to immigrants arriving from abroad."

Does that poem and what the Statue of Liberty represents, no longer apply?

I'm sorry to our British readers HMS not HMAS.

Were does the money come from that you want? The US isn't self sufficient ot continue on. All these benefits cost, if I remember you stated that you earn $35ph and your boss charges $115ph. How much money do you really cost your boss?

You wouldn't have a clue. We been through this before.

For you to need the money required for the lifestyle you want your country needs to export. How can you export vehicles if your regulations prevent you from easily manufacturing what the world needs.

And with the attitude displayed on this article by some hicks, who would buy an American made product.

For survival, the US needs to become part of the world.

Some of the attitudes here is similar to the French arrogance.

All of the D3 trucks are built as cheaply as they can make them with profit being the main goal. Toyota on the other hand builds their Trucks to last forever. It is a fact. Book closed! Viva la Mexico.

Last forever. lol C channel frame. lol


Toyota is recalling a breathtaking 7.4 million vehicles worldwide for a power window glitch that is a potential fire risk. It's the single biggest recall in the industry since Ford recalled 8 million cars in 1996 for an ignition issue that also could have caused engine fires.



Ford & Toyota!!

Well, HEMI V8
Your post above shows the limitations on your ability to have a debate on an adult level.

It's a pity you lack basic communication skills so you can become involved in discussion.

Tundra C-channel and narrow leaf springs are horrible.


@Big Al from Oz - The Rambo Motards are worse than trolls because they actually believe the crap they post.
They do not know that they work in a financially unsustainable job, buy products that are unsustainable, and live in an unsustainable economy.
They believe that their vehicles are #1, their unions that keep their jobs are #1, and that their economy is #1.

Anyone that points out the opposite are trolled, called liberals, democrats, socialists,communists, anti-American, anti-freedom of speech ad nauseum......

Whatever happened to intelligent debate or even a civil conversation about trucks?

What is this non sense what happened to America?

@ Lou, I see your jealousy has gotten the best of you again. What ever hope you had of having the best truck on the road with your 2010 Ford has been dashed by the 2013 Ram truck.
The most advanced truck on the market. Think of this positively
With your Fords good trade in you can get the best truck on the road. The 2013 Ram.

Posted by: HEMI V8 | Jul 8, 2012 1:00:45 AM

@Dave, Jealous much? LOL.

@ Sandman Agreed, realistic depictions of actual use would be more helpful.

Yay for turning national historic monuments into sales props! Come see the Silverado engraved into stone at Mt Rushmore, LIKE A ROCK! See the new Washington monument with the Ford F450 holding it in the bed, dedication to 'murika and built Ford tough trucks! See the new Ram at the Lincoln Memorial serving as throne to Lincoln, GUTS GLORY RAM! AMERICA!

@Robert Ryan
You mean this http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minisite/tundraexperience/#/home. Although I am very sure the I hate Toyota crowd will find another reason to complain.

I'd like to know everyones opinion about something. Ford and Chevy both manufacture vehicles in other countries just like Toyota and Nissan and others are doing here so why the double standard. If ALL the import brands of automobiles that are made and sold here called it quits and closed up shop, how many millions of Americans would be out of work and would we blame ourselves for wanting them out?

5.3LOL: although his writing seams like mine sandman is not the same person as Sandman4X4, you will have to take my word on that. I do agree with sandman however, in all that was is a advertisment, any one of the 1/2 ton trucks out there could have done this, all it was is $$$$, that is all. But it seams that every one seams to forget that toyota had nothing to do with the building of Endeavour, but the American People did pay for it! and I would bet American manuf. like GM might have had a little bit to do with the building. I personaly would have loved to see a Raptor pull Endeavour myself.

By the sounds of it I don't think many care (or haven't got a clue).

I'm surprised at the response so far regarding the Endeavour. There have been some logical one though.

I don't think some on this site are aware of how interconnected markets are around the world now.

They don't realise that some US auto manufacturers are part owners in some of the Japanese automanufacturers. I do know that Ford still has a small percentage of Mazda, GM has ties to Izuzu etc and Toyota would have links to some US manufacturer.

The Tundra is designed and manufactured in the US.

Dave:: I love that link to youtube! I have watched it many times, I have even shown it to my cousin that owns a tundra and he thinks that Ford had sabataged the tundra! I would love to see Ford do it all over again with reg cab's w/8' beds and then see how they all make out! that would realy be something to see huh? man I could not believe how much the tundra gets all bent out of shape, and I wonder if when Mike asked "where is the tundra, is it still attatched to itself"? is it ? I would like to see them do an inspection on all the trucks and detail all that is wrong with them.

@Dave, I see your jealousy has gotten the best of you again. What ever hope you had of having the best truck on the road with your Ford has been dashed by the 2013 Ram truck.
The most advanced truck on the market. Think of this positively
With your Fords good trade in you can get the best truck on the road. The 2013 Ram with CLASS LEADING suspension, 8 speed and a Hemi.

@Dave and sandman4x4, Forget that other video and check out this video!

Thanks to the BEST IN CLASS AIR RIDE SUSPENSION, you get...







@ Steve I want big 3 to build vehicles in the USA to answer your question.
@ Lou & big al from oz this is why our country is messed up cause of over educated people. No common sense, and Lou someday you might meet a redness , hick or Hillbilly. Tell him or her in person what you think of them.

Redneck. Damn smart phone!


Class leading suspension? Yes, as long as you don't tow or haul anything and don't make any turns on the road.

2013 Ram 1500 Frame & Suspension: Deep Dive

Posted by Mark Williams | April 12, 2012

With fuel efficiency being a high priority -- if not the highest priority -- the Ram engineers knew they had to do something special with foundation of the 2013 truck. Not only did they want to try a few weight-saving techniques, they also needed to redesign the setup to accommodate the new segment-first air suspension, too.

Stronger Steel

The optional air suspension is a modified version of the same system Chrysler uses on the Jeep Grand Cherokee, but it’s strengthened a bit to accommodate the greater payload and towing needs.

The new frame is much stiffer and more efficient thanks to liberal use of the high-strength steel allows the platform to increase stability and handling precision while at the same time decrease noise, vibration and harshness (NVH). In particular, the front rails have increased their yield strength by 20 percent, and the high-strength steel helps save about 30 pounds.

The remaining portions of the frame are hydroformed to keep the needed strength precisely accurate where needed and to remove unnecessary welding hot-spots that could lead to weakening. As a result, hydroforming ends up saving weight as well. To improve NVH, new, larger body mounts are on the front frame rails and at the C-pillar. These are not the same type of liquid-filled mounts in the Ram HD.

New box floor cross-members in the bed eliminate seven pounds, and the front bumper has been redesigned to save four more pounds. Another significant weight-saver is the use of aluminum upper and lower control arms in the independent front suspension. By going to this more time- and labor-intensive construction, the new Ram 1500 saves a total of 26 pounds.

On the subject of weight savings, it’s worth noting that the new Pentastar V-6 and TorqueFlite 8 transmission save about 76 pounds compared with the previous engine and four-speed. Overall, the eight-speed saves the new truck about 30 pounds.

Riding on Air

The 2013 Ram will continue to use its class-exclusive coil-spring and multilink rear suspension, and it will remain the standard option on most trim packages. However, new Rams will be adding an all-new airbag suspension to the half-ton lineup. The system uses a small air compressor and dual storage tanks to produce and hold the air and to provide up to four inches of lift.

The new system will offer a class-leading 21-inch step-in height, give the truck another best-in-class ground clearance of 10.7 inches at full extension, and provide best-in-class departure and breakover angles at 27.8 and 24.2, respectively. (We assume the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor has the best uncontested approach angles.)

Another benefit of the new air suspension is load-leveling capability, which automatically detects load on the rear axle -- from payload or a trailer -- and automatically increases air pressure to the rear bags to level the ride height. One of our favorite features of the system is that the owner can use the key fob to dump the air in the bags to lower the entire truck for easy entry or for easier trailer hookup.

The five-setting air-ride system operates automatically, or it can be controlled manually via the console or key fob. The settings are below:
•Normal Ride Height: Offers almost nine inches of clearance (Ram tells us it’s measured from the doorsill rather than the rear differential — so figure somewhere around six inches of ground clearance). This is the default load-level ride height.
•Aero Mode: This is an automatic setting that lowers the vehicle height over one inch to improve aerodynamics and fuel economy by one percent, Ram tells us. The mode is activated by vehicle speed.
•Off-Road 1: Lifts the truck over one inch from Normal Ride Hieght when manually selected to provide slightly more ground clearance. Can be selected in either 2WD or 4WD high or low range.
•Off-Road 2: Also must be manually selected and rises two inches above normal ride height. Can also be selected in either 2WD or 4WD high or low range.
•Park Mode: This setting lowers the vehicle almost two inches below normal ride height. This makes it easier to enter and leave, and it makes it easier to load or unload cargo.

Most of the ride heights can be manually selected with either of the two "truck up" and "truck down" switches at the bottom of the center stack, next to the trailer brake controller. No word yet as to how expensive the air suspension option package will be but we're guessing it will similarly packaged to the Grand Cherokee--meaning, it could be pricey. Additionally, we don't know anything about the payload capacity, GVW rating, or tow ratings of the new frame and airbag suspension, or if the various ratings will change for the standard coil-spring suspensions. We'll have more on those numbers as the information is released.


"The 2013 Ram will continue to use its class-exclusive coil-spring and multilink rear suspension, and it will remain the standard option on most trim packages."

Exactly like Dave said in the other post. Coil springs are standard on most trims. If Ram would ever get that 2013 build and price up and running, we could see which trims have it or not.


Was there every any doubt?? Toyota is the epitome of quality and reliability. All of the others are just pretenders!! Namely GM, Ford, and Dodge!


@Joe - You are making some big assumptions about me. Am I well educated? Yes. I live in a Northern community. I have hunted, I like to fish, ride quads, dirt bikes, street bikes, I've dragraced bikes, I camp in remote areas and love to hike through the bush. I have friends that are from every job and racial demographic. I could drive a Mack gravel truck before I had a drivers licence.
There is a big differece between a lack of knowledge (practical or theoretical) and chosing to be ignorant.
My dad for example never finished highschool because he dropped out to help raise his family during the geeat depression. He was a very intelligent guy who ran a business and was well infirmed.
Too much higher education isn't the problem.
Common sense is lacking in many people. Common sense can lead people astray.
Critical thinking is superior.
Common sense says a part that looks bigger, beefier, heavier is stronger.
Critical thinking says that strength depends on shape, metalurgy, quality.

Only an idiot would buy this, tundra can't even get out of a ditch: http://youtu.be/Z8PpZF77tgk

@5.3L LOL More than the website, but actual usage. I have never seen a F150 tow anything here, same goes for the Tundra and a few RAM 1500's I have seen.

Different when you are talking F250-F450's F650 Supercrewzers Yes that do tow Caravans , Race car trailers and 5th Wheelers.

Boy, I'm having alot of probs posting on this site.

You have to remember people aren't born educated, its not like money. There are rich ignorant people as well.

What amazes me is some on this site don't realise that Toyota helped make it possible for a museum to operate by supporting it. Their kids can become better educated by going there. GM, Ford or Fiat/Ram probably could have done the same, but they didn't.

Like Lou I live a very remote part of the world, where fishing, camping, BBQs and drinking XXXX Gold beer is what life is about. Up here you don't go 4x4ing without another vehicle and comms and/or at sat phone.

So half the crap most guys chat about on this site is meaningless. It's all about a couple of horsepower or a couple hundred pounds towing. Even TRX4 Tom sometimes gets a bit carried away on trivial differences.

Some on this site must also realise there is a big world out there and the US is only represents 5% of this and a significant transformation has been occuring over the last 25 years globally. And to the guys who don't care this will affect and is affecting your lives right now.

If you guys don't start looking over your shoulders you'll be overtaken. Everything in the good ole US isn't always better.

But as you have shown iin the past you have got some fantastic ideas, products and technology.

If that would have been a Ram pulling the shuttle, it would have puked it's GUTS out in all its GLORY all over the pavement....RAM!!! LOL! Just had to do that!!!

If that would have been a Ram, it would have puked its GUTS out all over the pavement in all it's GLORY.....RAM!!!
LOL! Sorry, just had to do that!!

@ Lou , since you ride atvs come on down to Huntsville Tn. Next weekend and hang out with us blue collar guys. Brimeston Recreation.
Big bob from oz your invited also , we will be at the cabin with all the American trucks and atvs. I agree with some of the things both of you posted.

Wow Hemi trolls are out in force , and as always Lou and Big all are the most inteligent people on this site.

Hemi you claim to support american Jobs but where are the cloths you are wearing made? the computer you are posting from? chances are they are from China which is not American.

With the global economy being based on trade, requires us (USA) to buy products from overseas so other countries have money to buy our products. When you buy something thats made in Mexico, Canada, Australia, you creat jobs in those countries that creat income and allow those people to buy an american product. Im sure that Big Al is either using windows or Mac OS X to write his posts those are american software products that creat jobs here in this country. when you buy food from mexico you are allowing that farmer to go buy a f150 or silvarado to work on his farm with, if you buy maple syrup from canada you allow some one like Lou to go buy and F150 that has alot of US parts and was designed and assembled in USA of mostly US and Canadian Parts. All these people are taxed and their governemtns buy our products, mexico buy military vehicles and small arms from us, Cnada and austrailia both own C-17s, and F-18 aircraft manufactured by Boeing, americas largest exporter in terms of $ amount. C-17s cost $218 million dollars each and are flown by the US, Canada, Austrailia and the UK those countries also fly c-130 aircraft. Austrailia even uses M1 Abrams tanks.

On toyota, cudos to toyota for the shuttle pull, my raptor could never do it as the suspension is too soft,( but i would like to see Hemi v8 put his money where his mouth is and try to pull it.) When you buy a Tundra you are supporting American Manufacturing, R&D, sales and Marketing and corperate personel, the Profits go back to jappan and are taxed by the government. the Government then is responsable for a host of duties including its self defence force and buys or produces uunder licesens many amrican weapons systems they have 6 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, f-4s , f-15s kc-767s , e767s, vip 747s, F-2s (modified f16s) and have ordered 42 f35s thats billions of dollars of military equipment that they bought from us, it shows that toyota indirectly supports alot of american jobs in the defence industry. So it really is not un american to buy a toyota product made in the USA of US parts. what is un American is buying products from countries that hate uis and out way of life like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan , and China. most of our stuff comes from China a country that does not like us or any of our Allies, they are threatnening Japan Vietnam and the Philippines , and tiwan. they invaded Tibet, a countey that is not really violent and murder many people and destroyed monestaries. China is the number one source of Cyber attacks against the US but we continue to by cheap chinese products to save a buck, so before you go spouting of on how un american Toyota's Tundra is look in the mirror and ask your self do i fund a human rights violating soverenty infringing comunest regime or do i try to help out freedom loving people fromm all over the world buy purchasing their goods?

@ joe - thanks for the invitation. there is nothing like hanging out with a bunch of guys to play hard and have a few beers. Unfortunately I'm close to 3,000 miles away.

@Carilloskis - good post and thanks.

@Big Al: You mean trivial things like rotors that are only 11.8" diameter on things that have a GVWR like 7,000 pounds or more, while our half tons here run 13.5 inchs or so average for about the same GVWR?

Anyway, no Fosters beer? Just trying to be global.

@TRX4 Tom
Yes that is trivial. Our vehicles/utes work quite well with those brakes and have a higher safety level.

Here are some statistics on vehicle fatalities beteen certain countries. This isn't trivial, and tell me how inferior the brakes are on my ute. Remember we don't have HDs and our mid size utes are used to carry loads as big as you use HDs in some instances.

Remember bigger doesn't necessarily translate into better. Like driving any vehicle its up to the driver to compensate and drive to conditions.

How many people have you seen that shouldn't have a driver licence or are texting or talking on their mobile (cell phones).

Or how many people drive a V8 when it appears they would have a problem controlling a ride on mower.

I posted these statistics a while ago. The US can improve its vehicle saftety considerably and so can every country.


@ Big Al

I am sure you know this, but those statistics don't necessarily have anything at all to do with a "higher safety level"

Fatalities per person/vehicle doesn't take into consideration that people in certain countries drive substantially more miles on average, or that the average speeds travelled are much higher, or that the population density is much higher, or that total vehicle ownership is higher... and so on and so on.

Also (not to Big Al, but in general), I think that there are folks on here that don't understand what actually stops a vehicle--its not brakes, it is tires. Once a brake caliper rotor combination is large enough to have sufficient leverage to skid the tires, any rotor that is larger will NOT stop the vehicle any shorter--only stickier tires will then reduce the stopping distance. A larger rotor allows for an additional heat-sink to prevent failure in a heavy usage application--such as loaded on a grade or towing a trailer. That is where the massive rotors pay their due. I live at 6500' and spend most of my time in the mountains often up to 10,000'. Maybe flatlanders don't care for larger rotors; I'll take 'em.

I forgot to say "REPEATED" stops in heavy duty usage.

Same for track duty--track cars often have large rotors. An autocross race vehicle may actually REDUCE the brake size since they will not have repeated stops and it is wasted weight.

Yes, in some countries vehicles aren't driven as many miles per person.

But in Australia I would have to say we drive comparable distances/ownership as you guys. The same would go for the Canadians and New Zealanders.

But also our countries with higher vehicle ownership should have a lower fatality rate per 100 000 vehicels because we have less passengers per vehicle on average, so this should reduce the differences you are describing.

Brakes and tyres, not many people understand how they work.

Drum vs disc is very contentious in certain circumstances. Drum can offer larger friction area by diameter than discs.

But discs can offer better continuous braking via cooling. Larger diameter discs doesn't necessarily translate into better braking, even towing large loads.

That is for single rotor discs only, because when you have a stack of rotors and stators in a disc brake assembly they are easily overheated. But they offer a huge braking capacity for heavy loads at high speeds.

I don't know about the US but over here trailer brakes are regulated by law if a trailer can carry more than 750kg.

I have a 10' x 5' trailer rated at 2 000kg and it has 4 drum brakes on a tandem setup with rocker arms.

Even taking my foot off the accelerator is enough for the trailer brakes to start to work. The trailer stops itself not the ute.

Prime movers don't have huge brakes to make up for the trailers they tow.

I'm not saying larger rotors don't work though, but it seems our ute braking systems work extremely well and they are used under larger loads than alot of your pickups.

Maybe because more your pickups are used as car alternatives and not for work discs are used on the back.

Tyres are generally a comprimise, we have alot of young guys who put aggresive pattern mud tyres on their utes because they think it looks cool, when in fact HTs or for occasional offroad work ATs would suffice, hey its about perception.

Light truck tyres are a comprimise between grip, load capacity and comfort.

4x4 tyres are an even bigger comprimise.

I am glad you agree that larger brakes are better for towing trailers--I have towed enclosed, open, gooseneck, bumper-hitch, etc, and have seen first hand that larger rotors make a difference.

I don't know if I agree about our utes not towing large loads compared to yours. I was towing a 16' trailer at about 7000lbs this weekend with my Tundra. On average, I would guess our towing capacities are higher and better for towing due to longer wheelbase, etc.

Al, Why is the couldn't see fit to do a proper braking test in that shootout ya'll had there a few months ago? Alot of stuff was based on opinion. How about actual numbers? Why did Ford upgrade the F150 brakes in 2010?

That's a bunch of stats from 2008 at the lastest. So 3 and a half years old? Every country can be safer. Your vehicle is only safe if the driver pays attention. Maybe over there the texting is down, or the po-po watch the roads more, to control speeding. I know your vehicle safety tess and ours are quite differant, ours tend to be tested at faster speeds, with heavier vehicles hitting them. We have IIHS and NHSTA, you have what, one institute for safety?

Yeah, where do you put 2500 pounds on such a little truck with a mid sized cab? Most the weight on yours would be behind the rear axle. I would really like to see testing at max weight, for these comanies with high payloads. Ford leads the way, at least in payloads. Pray that they can handle it. That's trivial, huh?

I get the idea it must not have as many hills over there. Ya'll act like Austraulia is so darn perfect? Really?

Yeah, tires have alot to do with braking. I found out when in the second day I had my truck, less then 500 miles, and some lady decided not to yield at a rig on a light, while I had a green in the slow lane. The standard TRX4 / Outdoorsman tires are Good Year A/T s tires, they have a taller tread on them and the treadblocks are just not real stable. I hit the brakes hard, but the tread was fighting to grip. Of course, she didn't get to test my frontal offset structure.(best in IIHS class) but it did not feel great. I later read about testers/ reviews of TRX4s braking, and the tires seem to be the culprit. About a year later in Lawton Oklahoma with almost 10,000 miles I hit them hard, after the tires got worn down a little. Much better that time.

Maybe someday they will test vehicles on the same tire. It would be even better on the same size, but that'll never happen.

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