GM Exec Hints at New Diesel for Trucks

Chevy Silverado_cdauto II

During a quick interview with a Wall Street Journal reporter (a subscription may be required) at the Los Angeles Auto Show, Mark Reuss, head of GM's North American operations, said the new half-ton pickups from Chevy and GMC mark a change in direction for the segment. 

When speaking about the long-anticipated 2014 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 and GMC Sierra 1500, he noted they would better reflect the changing desires of full-size new-truck buyers, meaning they would be more refined and not overdone. We're guessing Reuss is specifically talking about the old-school trend where truck makers made their pickups look (and drive) more like heavier-duty big rigs than family-friendly people-haulers. 

Reuss emphasized that GM's two-truck strategy -- namely, having the smaller Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon and the Silverado and Sierra -- will do a better job serving GM customers who might not need more truck then their anticipated work needs require. He went on to say that having separate truck lines that compete better against the Toyota Tacoma and the Ford F-150 will better serve their diverse customers. 

There's no question fuel economy will be a huge priority for every truck that comes to market from now on, but it's interesting that in the article, Reuss said GM is still looking at using a diesel in one of its light-duty pickups. It should be noted that the article doesn't clearly say if Reuss was speaking about the smaller Colorado/Canyon, which does offer small turbo-diesels in other global markets, or the coming Silverado/Sierra, which has not had a diesel since the late '80s and early '90s. Reuss did not offer further details about when and where such a diesel option would be decided. 

Our guess is that a new turbo-diesel would show up in the smaller pickups, since they have much of the research and development and engineering costs sunk as those vehicles (with two TDI options) are already on sale in many Southeast Asian and South American markets. In fact, Reuss said many buyers interested in the small-truck segment want 90 percent of the capability but are looking for much better fuel efficiency. A turbo-diesel Colorado or Canyon would satisfy that customer.

As for a turbo-diesel in either of the coming GM half-tons (a la the Duramax 4.5-liter V-8), we think the chances are quite slim. 

For now, all we can say is that it's nice that the GM exec is giving the idea some solid thought. More to come as we find exactly what powertrains the new GM half-tons will have on Dec. 13. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait quite a bit longer (at least six months longer) for the info to come out regarding the new Colorado and Canyon powertrains

GMCcanyon.us05.KGP II

 

Comments

@ John Pringle,

To further the argument:

Why is it that GM and the mega-banks get bailouts while the average American losing their home is just ignored?

The federal government DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU, they only seek your hard earned tax dollars so they can bailout loser companies and their masters the mega-banks and send you sons of to useless and pointles UNDECLARED wars as a distraction so they can continue to rape the treasury!

You guys need to wake up before its too late!

We the people have the power, not the federal government!

The Constitution is there for our protection against the federal government or king back then but soon to be dictator obama today!

You guys need to stop sleeping and wake up and stop voting in the same losers every election!

Start defending your nation from these wackoes in DC or have your local state secede!

@oxi
Man, what a tirade.

John Pringle didn't mention that he supported the bailouts. He just wanted the contributors to remain on topic.

Most people don't support the bailouts, but they happened. GW Bush was the one who initiated them by the way.

Even to the people who blame Obama for CAFE must realise CAFE started back during the oil crissis in the 70s. And the targets have been set years ago.

Sometimes when a previous government implements policy and direction a newly elected government is powerless to make changes.

@Oxi--Here you go again with your conspiracy theories. Watch out for those little green men from Mars that are infiltrating our government on every level. Those little green men are taking away our Twinkies and turning us into Obamanites. Maybe we should watch more Fox News and rise up against the workers and give the CEOs bigger bonuses. If you think that Hostess going out of business is based on sound business practices I have a bridge to sell you. Hostess is worth more in bonuses to top managment as a defunct business than as a continuing business. Sell off the profitable parts of Hostess and get bigger bonuses. As for GM they are presently making money everywhere except Europe and few are making money in Europe.

At least this article is news about trucks. The well has been dry as to any news about pickups and at least this is a story. Not all articles can be about Toyota since they have not changed their trucks in almost ten years nor do they have any plans to. Hopefully GM makes good on some of these promises and gives some of us what we want instead of the same old things. GM needs to put a diesel in the Colorados and they need to get their trucks competitive again or no one will take them serious. Let us remain hopeful. It gets tiresome when every article posted on this website turns into a bashfest. At this point any new news on trucks is welcome.

Food for thought do you guys honestly believe that Gm or Chrysler were begging for a bail out, or where they more or less strong armed into excepting this deal from the government ? I often wonder ??

wy they just build the f,,,diesel and give customer the choice to have a diesel....

oxi: you realy need to quit bellyacing about GM taking your $, the gov. takes $ from all Americans that pay taxes, for things we dont all agree with. As far as the bailout goes, it was not done to save GM, but to save the union! and all the other companies that supply parts for ALL the manuf. NOT just GM. You realy need to grow up! I have been buying GM products all my life, with a couple Dodges, a Ford and yes a toyota, a long time ago, when your argument was stronger for toyota building better toy trucks and cars, but that is not the case now, and real American do not cut their nose off in spite of their face, and that is just what you are doing. If there is anyone here that should be complaining about the $ going to GM, is the folks that have put there own $ where they CHOSE, and buy the products that are built by GM, then if they have a problem with them, then and only then do they have the right to complain, but someone like yourself, to complain about something you have voluntarily spent your own $ on a product you continuosly trash, is well wrong, it is like someone who doesn't vote complaining about the way things are going, now untill you go out and BUY a GM product now in the present, not back in the day, you have no real say, just a bunch of emty words, from a rablerouser, that has not real skin in the game, you realy sound like some spoiled brat in the school lunch room, that hates what is on the menu, and is not paying for it! and when I say skin, I mean you go in a dealer and spend your $ on your own, to buy a GM, Ram, or Ford product.

As far as the 4.5 Duramax goes, if GM was to bring that engine back, it should be the standard engine, along side the 6.0 gas in the HD trucks, as a no extra cost, or a (between) the price of the big Duramax, that is one way they could get more mpg out of the big trucks, for when the E.P.A. starts with the listing of that info, that would be a great way to get more mpg out of the bigger trucks, and after a couple of yrs. it would be a good way to sread the cost out even more with the 1/2t. OH oxi: I happen to believe the same way you do with some of the things you say about the way most of the useful fools have voted this yr.

@sandman4X4, Jeff S., Big Al from Oz

Buying from GM equals support for communism/socialism and democrats!

Your the loser that has never read the Constitution!

My gosh, you people do not know nothing but listening to your masters and their minions the corporate media!

Like I said before, KEEP SLEEPING!

Why should ANY private business get special treatment? Explain that one to me?

POLITICS, learn what that is before you make ignorant comments like the rest of the fools on this site!

GM was a FAILURE not by taxpayers fault but their own damn fault and explain to me in detail why should they skip proper protocol at bankruptcy proceedings?

You stupid people accept this behavior by the federal government to win votes and payback campaign contributors that leads also to mega-bank bailouts while the average citizen gets nothing!

You people are stupid, keep watching your football, playing with your damn smart phones, listening to your corporate media and ignore what the federal government does on a daily basis! They are the ones laughing right now, you guys ae too stupid to comprehend what is going on and place your blind trust in a bunch of morons that cannot even balance a simple budget!

Yeah, keep sleeping! You deserve neither Liberty nor security nor a nation for that matter!

A true high mileage diesel option is a good bet. Instead of worrying about every engine option having the ability to smoke the tires from every stoplight have the option for a 3lt-ish diesel.

I enjoy my 400HP truck as much as the next guy but to think this is sustainable indefinately is shortsighted.

A new partnership diesel refinery has been approved and being built in the Industrial Heartland near Edmonton and Sasol is doing preliminary work with with a GTL refinery in the same complex. Sasol is looking at similar projects in the southern US and Australia.

Both of these projects will be using "greener" methods and advancing technology. There's not enough space here to describe the methods behind each project and it is out of my expertise as well but it is safe to say diesel refining is alive and well and it's in my back yard.

Much of the diesel produced in the area goes to the Oilsands development north of here but the fact that two high quality diesel refineries are at this stage of development is a move in the right direction.

These projects cost hundreds of millions before they even hit the ground with a total cost $5 Billion and up so there is investment in diesel production happening in North America.

@Oximoron GM is currently the #1 in terms of sales, and things are still looking up.

Yota on the other hand... how many recalls in the past 10 years???

@Magnum - nice to hear that there is some investment into diesel refining. Wasn't there a diesel shortage last year for a while due to a refinery going down for maintenance?
A small diesel in a 1/2 ton in the range of 3 litres would be a good idea if the price wasn't too high. Price it a 1,000 dollars more than a premium gas option and they would sell in large numbers.

@Oxi - I'm sure that their are plenty of political web sites for you to go to.
Trolls and nutjob fanboi's like to use the terms: jealous, haters, socialist, communist, loser, stupid, etc.

Go crawl back into your post zombie apocalypse BOTT cave and polish your rusty Tacoma while hiding in your Faraday cage and aluminum foil hat.

@Oxi--If you dislike the USA so much you need to leave. The Japanese have been subsidizing their industry for years and the Japanese market is the most protected market in the World with some of the highest tariffs. Most Japanese industry is heavily unionized including all the auto industry, that is one reason the Japanese have put more plants in the USA because it is lower cost in the USA. Another thing you would not be allowed to modify your truck the way you do in the USA. There are mandatory inspections in Japan where any vehicles 5 to 10 years old are required to be torn down and reassembled which for most would be prohibitive so they buy a new car. After 5 to 10 years most cars and trucks are exported to other Asian nations and some are scrapped for the spare parts and many of those parts are exported.

Another thing is that Japan will not just let anyone into their country. It is hard to immigrate to Japan even if you are an Asian. The Japanese consider themselves superior to the Chinese and Koreans and to Americans. Japan has a rapidly aging population with not enough younger workers to sustain their economy.

I agree we have a lot of things that need to be fixed in this country but many of us would be much worse off in another country. Oxi it appears that you are so focused on what is wrong that you do not appreciate the blessings you have. None of us will stop you if you desire to leave America, that is your choice but I would stop and reflect upon what you have and be grateful. I would rather be part of the solution than be part of the problem.

@ Lou

I believe it was the Shell refinery and it did cause a shortage. The new refineries are a small start but it's a step in the right direction.

Before the recession there were endless proposals for the area with one being Total with an $18 Billion project which seemed ridiculous even with $140 oil during "wild west" planning and speculating.

Some proposals have been either defered or outright cancelled but Northwest Partnership is the first one to break ground with others waiting in the wings.

The Sasol project, if it goes ahead, wouldn't produce diesel until 2020 if it stays on schedule. The Northwest Partnership could produce by 2016, give or take.

With amount of diesel required to run the Oilsands it's hard to say how much impact these will have but as a long term plan there will no doubt be more diesel producers coming on line here.

Pipelines are big business too. Enbridge alone has hired 100's of engineers, geologists and other technologists in the area. With the ability to pipe bitumen to other parts of Canada and the US there could be plentiful diesel refining in our lifetime.

Jeff S. very well said, maybe we can start a oxi go to Japan fund, but he will have to buy his own toyota over there, because his will be all rusted out from all the salty sea air on the trip over! that and like you mentioned, it will be too old, maybe they know somethinng over there we don't? after all Japan is an island, maybe that is why you need to buy a new vehicle over there, thay know they will rot them selves to un safe rusted out POS!

Someone should post the video of Boehner crying to get tarp threw.
You blabber about the constitution great, this is a automotive site nothing about politics or the BS you want to spout.
You need to get your foil hat refitted and buy a new gun.
I read an article, that was about the Colorado with a 2.8, That is from memory and the tester was impressed.
Personally I believe the first one to offer a smaller diesel in either a 1/2 ton or a mid size will have a sales winner, if it is a decent vehicle.

Some people come to this website to read about and talk about what's new with pickup trucks.

And some people, (not gonna mention any names) (oxi) come here because they really have nobody else to talk to or anybody that will listen.

Somebody. Please give oxi a hug...

I hated the bailouts, companies should survive by selling products that people want to buy and cut unnecessary expenses, rather than relying on taxpayer money. Bailouts removes accountability. That said, Jeff S. is correct, the Japanese government has been subsizing Japanese companies for a long time. Private companies should not be funded by taxpayers anywhere. Obama loves to take credit for dishing out our money!
GM: make the 4.5L diesel, get rid of your crappy cars, make better ones and you won't need to be bailed out again!

We have been promised diesel engines in 1/2 ton pickups since at least 2008. Between the Govt, Epa and Greedy oil companies, Auto dealers & mfgs, I think the above does not want us consumers to drive long lasting fuel efficient trucks. If everyone were driving a diesel tomorrow, the Govt fuel tax revenue would decrease by 60%, and they sure as heck don't want that. The Govt just needs more $$$ to solve all its problems. Just like a drug addict just needs more drugs to help them cope / handle their self-imposed position they are in.
Here here to OXI

@oxi
How can buying a product equate to supporting a particular team, unless that product is team merchanidise.

How many donate to both the GOP and the Democrats? Business have their interests to protect as well.

Like you, do you buy and live to suit your needs?

In Australia, Ford and GM are demanding our government pump over $5 billion into them to refit factories or they are threatening to close shop. Both these companies stripped most of their profits out of Australia to prop up their inefficient US businesses a couple of years ago. Is that fair?

Did you know that GM initially went to Ford to try and form a partnership? Ford execs laughed when GM wanted to be the controlling agent in that partnership. They said to GM, you need the money more than us and go to the government.

Also, if the US stops subsidising and giving away "handouts" it will definetely enter a depression like Greece. Do you want that?

It's people like you who don't realise demanding all the time and the government pandering to you has caused the problems in the US. You carry on like an over zealous unionist and people like you are just as dangerous to your economy.

Stop crying and give more to the IRS. The US needs to increase taxation, this is unfortunate but is neccessary.

Believe it or not fuel is the easiest vehicle to find tax dollars, because as fuel becomes more expensive people buy more efficient vehicles.

You need to improve your simplistic country boi deductive qualities and realise generalising isn't a good way to handle life.

The problems confronting the US is very complex and there isn't a simple fix.

I think every body is missing the point , I don't think GM or Chrysler wanted the bail out, they knew the political ramafactions before hand ! I think the GM or Chrysler have both came out strong and that's not because of political help , it's because it was do or die and they stepped it up a notch !

@oxi
How can buying a product equate to supporting a particular team, unless that product is team merchanidise.

How many donate to both the GOP and the Democrats? Business have their interests to protect as well.

Like you, do you buy and live to suit your needs?

In Australia, Ford and GM are demanding our government pump over $5 billion into them to refit factories or they are threatening to close shop. Both these companies stripped most of their profits out of Australia to prop up their inefficient US businesses a couple of years ago. Is that fair?

Did you know that GM initially went to Ford to try and form a partnership? Ford execs laughed when GM wanted to be the controlling agent in that partnership. They said to GM, you need the money more than us and go to the government.

Also, if the US stops subsidising and giving away "handouts" it will definetely enter a depression like Greece. Do you want that?

It's people like you who don't realise demanding all the time and the government pandering to you has caused the problems in the US. You carry on like an over zealous unionist and people like you are just as dangerous to your economy.

Stop crying and give more to the IRS. The US needs to increase taxation, this is unfortunate but is neccessary.

Believe it or not fuel is the easiest vehicle to find tax dollars, because as fuel becomes more expensive people buy more efficient vehicles.

You need to improve your simplistic country boi deductive qualities and realise generalising isn't a good way to handle life.

The problems confronting the US is very complex and there isn't a simple fix.

@Big Al from Oz--I would say that most of the readers on this site look at government loans as a last resort not to be repeated. I agree with @sandman4X4 that the government loans were less for GM and Chrysler and more to preserve jobs and to keep the suppliers from going under. At this point I just want GM and Chrysler to succeed and i want GM to pay back the full loan. I agree with you otherwise that the auto companies should not be supported for future mistakes and that they need to be competitive. I do see Ford making some serious strides toward full efficiency and giving the customers what they want on their cars and GM and Chrysler have also made some very positive changes as well. On the full size truck front they all will have to make changes and in the long run we all benefit even if we pay more the the trucks.

I feel that GM could be making the right move on the midsize trucks and hopefully this move includes diesel motors in the Colorados that get 30 mpgs. Quality, safety, reliablity, affordability, and fuel efficiency are all important considerations when buying any vehicle and it is best if all the manufacturers make these priorities. Hopefully this two truck strategy works for GM because many readers on this sight want a choice and would like for Ford and Chrysler to provide a competitive smaller truck as well. Also this would infuse new life into Toyota and Nissan and give them an incentive to come out with newer improved trucks.

I totally agree with you on raising fuel taxes and maybe the resistence to increasing this tax will change. We will see. When pushed with higher fuel prices the auto industry will meet the challenge because they are in the business to sell vehicles and to have the vehicles that the public wants and needs. Doomsdaying is not going to solve anything, action is what is required.

@Jeff S
I do think diesel is becoming more viable in the US as the cost of improving gas technology is being driven away from engine technology towards other areas of the vehicle. There isn't much room for huge improvements in gasoline unless some rocket scientist invents something radical and new.

A lot of the non-engine technologies are tranferable directly to diesel powered vehicles.

The current crop of the newer full size chassis coming on the market might very well be the last of the full size trucks and will finish in 15 years or so. Even our mid sizers are going to face the same challenges.

Utility/pickup style vehicles will definetely change in the future and I can see the day when the only people who drive them do so for work reasons.

I think it will be back to the future, when just owning a vehicle was a privilege irrespective of what it went and looked like.

They easiest way to improve efficiency is to increase combustion pressure, but that increases NOx in both gasoline and diesel, so Add Blue will eventually be necessary on gasoline engines as well as diesel.

I do know vehicle manufacturers are trying to develop engines that operate on lower combustion pressures, I don't think it will be very effective.

I know alot of people who read this site couldn't and won't envisage a day like I'm discussing, but that would be years off.

@Jeff S
I do think diesel is becoming more viable in the US as the cost of improving gas technology is being driven away from engine technology towards other areas of the vehicle. There isn't much room for huge improvements in gasoline unless some rocket scientist invents something radical and new.

A lot of the non-engine technologies are tranferable directly to diesel powered vehicles.

The current crop of the newer full size chassis coming on the market might very well be the last of the full size trucks and will finish in 15 years or so. Even our mid sizers are going to face the same challenges.

Utility/pickup style vehicles will definetely change in the future and I can see the day when the only people who drive them do so for work reasons.

I think it will be back to the future, when just owning a vehicle was a privilege irrespective of what it went and looked like.

They easiest way to improve efficiency is to increase combustion pressure, but that increases NOx in both gasoline and diesel, so Add Blue will eventually be necessary on gasoline engines as well as diesel.

I do know vehicle manufacturers are trying to develop engines that operate on lower combustion pressures, I don't think it will be very effective.

I know alot of people who read this site couldn't and won't envisage a day like I'm discussing, but that would be years off.

@Big Al from Oz--Ford has been doing a lot with the ecoboost on the 4 cylinder and now a 3 cylinder motor with the Focuse,
Fiesta, and Fussion resulting in quick acceleration and better fuel economy. Although there are differences in trucks and cars alot of this technology can be used on trucks as well. Yes there is only so much that can be done with the internal combustion engine and it has about reached the limits but it is surprising how much more the manufacturers have squeezed out of some of the smaller engines. I do agree with you that more of the people that drive trucks will be those that use them in their work. We will see the end of what we currently have as the full size half ton pickup but I do think they will keep the interior space and possibly the bed dimensions close to the same while reducing some of the exterior dimensions such as the length of the hood and reducing the weight. These will be some challenging and interesting years ahead for the truck market.

I'm excited for more diesel options in the US, once a vehical hits the 30mpg I don't really care about fuel economy because of diminishing returns on a non linear relationship, no reason to waist a dollar to save a dime. For my family I'd be intersted in both a diesel Colorado and Trailblazer/Colorado 7.

@Kemo,

Toyota is the current #1 in global sales!

And due check the amount of recalls by the big 3 the last 20 years, it will boggle your weak mind!

@Lou,

Sorry foreigner but as soon as the political party known as the democraps bailed out GM, that company became politics!

Thanks to those LOSERS in DC we now have to introduce politics into the automotive industry!

Keep sleeping!

@ Jeff S,

Please do not put that typical sheeple statement of you do not like it here leave BULLSHYT!

I am not the one that is sleeping! I care more about this nation than you clowns that ignore what DC does!

I point out the problems because I want them fixed. That makes me more of a PATRIOT than you goons that do not even know how your government is supposed to work!

It's like having a drug or bad habit problem, I reconize the problem thus seek the cure or treatment while you guys cannot even recognize the symptoms YET have the nerve to lecture me!

You guys are the idiots and the anti-Americans for letting the morons in DC destroy this nation!

The Constitution is there for protection against the federal government, I suggest you read it and understand your rights before you lose it all!

@ Jeff S,

Subsidizing is NOT the same as getting an illegal bailout!

GM was bankrupt and screamed at the federal government and threatened them if they didnot hand over a welfare check!

Again you goons offer no details as I stated earlier what gives GM the right to get a bailout welfare check while other private corporations have to go through bankruptcy proceedings?

Again keep ignoring the question! This shows me that you guys no nothing but what the corporate media and the obama dictatorship tell you!

Make your own opinions insteade of what the morons from DC and GM and the UAW tell you!

You guys are such good little sheeple!

I just wish the other auto companies would file a federal lawsuit against GM and the federal government for unfair business prcatises!

GM failed and should have been liquidated in federal bankruptcy court like any company goes through. The other auto companies work their butt's off to stay profitable to their shareholders while GM messes up as usual and gets a welfare check with the same damn leadership as before in power!

If you guys cannot see the bullshyt in that and the politics, your the morons that need to wake up or keep sleeping!

GM is a failed company and I am not going to reward a bunch of losers that cannot compete and have to ask mommy and daddy for a handout because they suck!

@Big Al from Oz,

Understand the differance between subsidizing and a bailout please!

GM failed and were bankrupt thus screamed (because of campaign contributions to king obama) of horrors in blue states if the taxpayers were not going to bailout GM because of their mistakes!

GM wanted the taxpayers to pay for their mistakes, that is a big differance than from standard subsidizing!

GM is a whiny little child looking for handouts because they spent their money on candy and sodapop insteade of substance and proper foods!

We have federal bankruptcy courts in this nation for a reason! Why should companies like loser GM skip proper protocol by threatening king obama of pains in so-called blue states for his re-election to get handouts?

For the few in this nation that pay attention, what king obama did with GM was a CRIME and no where in the Constitution, same holds true with mega-bank bailouts!

It is not the federal governments duties to provide direct jobs in the PRIVATE sector, where does it state that in the Constitution?

I want details folks!!!

It figures. About the time these clowns start talking about a small or half ton diesel pickup I've already started to lose interest in diesel engines.

@Oxi--Your statements border on anti American. It is one thing to question your country and to discuss constructive criticism but to criticize helping victims of a natural disaster such as Sandy and to criticiize the nonprofits helping them is disgusting. It is one thing to have a preference for a certain brand but your views go beyond what is acceptable. A am willing to bet if it were your job on the line you would support a governmnent loan. GM and Chrysler are just businesses but what was at stake were millions of jobs and if they were lost then our economy would have probably collapsed. I guess since you are not working in the auto industry you could careless if someone else lost their job but eventually it would have affected all of us.

Japan has supported and protected all their industries since the end of WWII and it is probable their industries might not have survived. That worked for Japan because they are an island with few natural resources. Whether you were against government loans or not but to continually rant over what has happened will get you no where. Most of us would not support other government loans and the ball is in GM and Chrysler's court now.

Your way of dealing with those who disagree with you is name calling. Name calling will alienate the rest of us and we will not take any of your comments serious. I thought more of you than to revert to such tactics.

oxi" you are the one that needs to get his head out of the sand! why can't you realize it was a bailout of the unions, more that GM and Chrysler! the powers that be could have cared less about a private co., all they were interested in was saving one of the last private powerfull (voting blocks) union!

@oxi: My deepest sympaties for your loss of country.

You can bring that blood pressure reading down some by moving to TX when our lunatic Gov. Perry is President of his own country after his planned secession. We will have our own military! Their headgear will be Perry helmet hair and issue cowboy boots to march in. We can commision the Confederate Air Force to protect our airspace. We can finally change the lime green border patrol colors to something more manly.

A problem with this pipe dream is: We LIVE on the Gulf of Mexico! What insurance co. in a Capitalist society will write a policy for hurricane insurance when there is no Fed. Govt. to come in with aid? We can't even fund one of the worst education programs in the US. Maybe Rick's kick-back toll road buddies in Spain will help us out in exchange for all our taxpayer built roads being subverted to toll roads?

We here in Austin are not waiting for the other shoe to drop. He will need a new Capitol when the petitions to Secede from the secession are tallied. We will be like a landlocked Puerto Rico at the center of Rick's domain.

Seriously, I don't believe Rick will follow thru with this.
He can be trusted about as far as you can throw him.
I think instead that Rick had some success in grade school with infantile threats on the playground to take his ball and go home.

There's a place for Diesels to be sure, but IMO that option should be limited to the 1-ton class and heavier.

The best Diesel for the money, all-around, has to be the Cummins. People who know Diesels and actually use them for towing or hauling, like Sno-birds et al, always choose a Diesel, more often than not a Cummins in a Dodge or RAM pickup truck.

That same demographic, when choosing a gasoline-powered pickup truck, overwhelmingly chooses the Ford F-series. No one in their right mind would buy a gasoline-fed GM truck or Dodge truck in that capacity range. The real-world sales data actually supports that Ford is the best-seller in that segment.

If GM and Ford had a clue what Diesels in pickup trucks are all about, they would have contracted with Cummins, Detroit Diesel, Mercedes, Volvo, Hanomag, VW or Isuzu to develop a smaller, scaled-down diesel for their pickup trucks, instead of using the crap they perpetuate on the buying public.

Does anyone remember the misbegotten 350 Diesel V8 from GM? I had one in a used Caddy I bought, I pulled that POS out and put in an Olds 350 gas V8. Loved the car after that.

Or how about, have you ever watched a Ford Diesel self-destruct? It ain't a pretty sight and there is oily debris everywhere. The ones I have seen blew apart in the drive-way at startup. What a mess!

If you want a Diesel, get one from a company that builds them for durability. If you want one for your pickup truck, that means a Cummins in the US.

Cummins is not perfect, but Cummins is a lot closer to perfect than Ford or GM can ever hope to come. Just keep in mind that Diesels only pay for themselves for long-distance drivers.

They don't hold up well for runs to the shopping mall or grocery-getting. Diesels need to be thoroughly warmed to be efficient, that's why so many people keep them idling on short hops, rather than stopping and starting them each time.

@ Highdesertcat

I'm pretty much with you. Why reinvent the wheel when it already exists.

I have no problem with a Cummins or an Allison in a pickup.

Ram has it right by staying with Cummins and GM has it right by staying with Allsion.

Not to say the Ford is bad but taking the route of having 4 different diesels in a decade is beyond me.

Of course, you can't brag about most HP and win drag races with "only" 300.

If we could go back in time a bit and redo diesels as they were originally intended I'd be happy. If I need a tire smoker I'll buy a car.

A 350lb-ft small diesel in a half ton with consistent, REAL world 20's+ can be a winner.


oxi: I should have used "Empathize on your loss..", since I don't share in your experience.

Hdc:"Does anyone remember the misbegotten 350 Diesel V8 from GM? "

I do. Am I showing my age?

That was a dim idea that never should have seen the light of day. They took a V8 gasser engine and morfed it into a diesel! My SIL had the Olds 88 with one. She swaped it for the gas engine after 2 yrs. She kept it for another 5 yrs after that and loved it.
What was crazy about it was that the big selling point was that the diesel engine was supose to outlast the car!

Don't leave any vehicle running unattended in TX. I know an ex-cop who would jump in them at the 7-11's and drive them to the impound yard.

@Jay - The question mark is for the year the diesel will debut, not the fact that it's coming.

Oxi is the king of trolls.
He knows most truck guys are conservative in their buying and political ideology.
That is why he:
- goes on and on about small trucks
- goes on and on about Toyota the great
- goes on and on about "screw the disaster victims"
- goes on and on about bailouts
- goes on and on about how he hates the USA

Those are all guaranteed hot button topics.

If he really and truly believed his posts:
- he would not post personal pics and information all over the net
- he would not drive around with custom "Oxi" plates on his truck
- he would not tell us where he lives
- he would not tell us where he works
- he would not spend $176,900 on a new house.

Oxi is either:
A.. an expert troll
or
B. the biggest fool on the face of the earth

To pull the discussion back to pickups and more specifically diesel engines. I'll be a devil's advocate and tie it all in with the post zombie apocalypse scenario.
A diesel would be much more superior to a gasser because it can be made to run on various fuel sources such as bio-diesel, food oil based products, heating oils et cetera. One could delete all of those emission devices and improve fuel economy. It would have the needed torque to pull/haul a heavy load and under those conditions have superior fuel economy even with the emission components. Since most vehicles in highly populated areas are gasoline powered, the zombies would be less likely to fight over diesel. Once a person escaped the urban hordes, diesel powered machinery is very common in rural areas. One could siphon fuel from those machines to extend one's range (assuming the rural zombies aren't guarding their turf too carefully).
All in all, a diesel powered unit is vastly superior to gas in that scenario.

The power characteristics of a diesel, especially in a small truck are superior to gasoline. Small diesels aren't usually tire burning, traffic light drag racers and neither are most small engined truck buyers. As GM's Mark Reuss pointed out ""These customers "want 90% of the duty cycle, and 120% of the fuel economy" of a large pickup". One could safely pull that "90%" down to 70% and small truck buyers would still remain happy. On average that should yield a 7,000 lb tow rating and a 1,000 - 1,500 lb cargo capacity.
I do believe that the mpg advantage should be higher than "120%. If Ram hits their mark at 25mpg that would yield a 30 mpg highway small truck. The interesting point is that Mark Reuss compared the "120%" advantage to the Silverado. Would that mean "23mpg x 120% = 27.6 mpg" ???????????????
That isn't high enough to make me spend my money considering the fact that a diesel small truck would be priced well into the middle of the full sized truck price range.
I would seriously consider one if I could see a return on investment for that diesel within 3 - 5 years.

As the Chevrolet Colorado is being readied for the US market its sibling the Isuzu DMAX is being modified to be much more effective. Although the DMAX Diesel does not have the power of the VM Motori, it is much more frugal on usage.

Modification will allow the DMAX to carry and tow roughly 9,000lbs combined that is for the Dual Cab DMAX

"He added that ARB is also developing a suspension upgrade to increase the ute’s gross vehicle mass rating beyond its current class-leading ability to carry a tonne in the tray while towing a three-tonne trailer."

Production numbers fluctuate from Isuzu but 400,000 to 500,000 to be produced with Markets in China and India bumping that up hopefully to 600,000 per year.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/7D8D532A97942BA6CA257AC700103B33

There is a significant difference between what diesels are achieving and their gasoline cousins.

Diesels are maintaining or even improving their fuel economy and improvinng power and torque output more so than gasoline. Sub 3 litre diesels are now putting out V6 power with more than V8 torque while improving their fuel economy significantly.

A 3 litre diesel is developing V8 power and delivering 4 cylinder economy, a gasoline engine could never achieve this.

Eco boosts don't even come near with the fuel economy improvements to power and torque gains. In any gasoline engine, historically if you start to use power, fuel consumption goes through the roof.

Highdesertcat was talking diesels Cummins vs Ford vs GM. But he is only talking HD diesels.

The German small diesels are really fantastic. The Japanese (Nissan/Toyota) are behind in the small diesel race, they have both produced troublesome small diesels within the past decade.

I do think within 5 years affordable diesels will be equivelant to what the prestige marques like Mercedes are obtaining from their 3 litre diesels- 260hp and over 460ft lb of torque and improve the fuel economy of its 3 litre diesels.

But if you want to drag race, then you can't beat a gasoline engine.

Lou: I agree 100%, but I would have picked c) all of the above hehe, and on with your rant about zombies, an older mechanical diesel, would not need any elec. once running, so an EMP would not harm one, but the only bitch would be to pump the fuel into the tank by hand! as a matter of fact I remember while running over the road in a class 7 rig, on the Cummins, and Cat engines had electric shut off's, but the both of them had a man. overide, but all the Macks back then had a handle you would pull out of the dash to stop them, I believe the old M/Benz car and trucks were the same, once running, no need for electricity, at least on the ones that had machanical fuel pumps!

@Robert Ryan --Interesting about the Isuzu D-Max. GM needs to use the D-Max engine because it already is proven and the mpgs are there. This would sell in the US.

@Stevador--I remember those 350 V-8 GM diesels. They offered them in all their products including Malibus. They were problematic. Maybe we could reactivate NASA and send Ricky Perry and Oxi on a one way trip to Mars.

I would like to see GM hit the ball out of the stadium with this two truck strategy. I have been looking at newer cars and crossovers and the redesigned GMs are much better. The new 2014 Impala will share the same platform and engines as the Buick Lacross which is a much improved car over the past Lacross. Impala is long in the tooth and needs this new redesign.

@ Jeff S.

"Interesting about the Isuzu D-Max. GM needs to use the D-Max engine because it already is proven and the mpgs are there. This would sell in the US."

Jeff the engine would still be need to be changed to US Tier regulations. Isuzu's DMAX Pickup, is the "quiet achiever" as you hear little about it.

@Robert Ryan--I am sure any diesel that would be sold in this market would need to be adapted. Isuzu has a solid reputation for their diesels and their vehicles. You see Isuzu commercial trucks everywhere where I live. Usually they are delivery trucks. At one time GM was going to use Isuzu diesels in their light trucks. I have been happy with my 2008 Isuzu I-370 pickup.

I do remember one good thing about the GM diesels of the 70-80's and that is at a local roundy round race track, the racers found out you could take the block of the diesels, and put the hypo top ends on the engine, the engines blocks were beefed up to the max (at the time) to try and hold up under the big increase in compression, and make a good hy-power gas race engine for very little $, because everyone that had one junked them, and the blocks were very will built! they all had nitrated forged cranks, forged rods and well the pistons did need to be replaced though, yea the engines were very cheep!

@Jeff S.,

Did you serve in the U.S. military?

Than you would know the TOP priority is defending the Constitution, not politicians or DC for that matter!

STOP spinning the democraps and the corporate media line that millions of jobs were at stake! That proves to me you cannot make your own opinion that you only speak what they say!

Make your own opinions please!

It is NOT the responsibility of the federal government to maintain private sector jobs! Where does it state that in the Constitution? I want specifics!

STOP listening to these moron politicians and defend the Constitution! By you not even mentioning the Constitution begs your anti-American!

And guess what moron, proper protocol is federal bankruptcy then liquidation which means NEW BUYERS!

Job losses would be minimal when new owners take over those iconic brands! Where did you learn business?

Oh, your one of those looking for handouts democrats where somebody else does all the hard work so you can sit at home on your lazy a$$ and collect!

Typical...

Again, keep ignoring the question of why should GM should get special treatment and skip federal bankruptcy court!

@ Lou and sandman4X4,

Keep ignoring my question!

Where did you guys learn about business law, the democraps welfare school?

Again where does it state in the Constitution that the federal government is responsible for private sector jobs?

When you guys do not even know how your government is supposed to conduct itself nor business law, please do not reply until you educate yourselves!

You guys have proved one thing: whatever your masters tell you from DC and the corporate media, you guys believe at face value and will not even bother to question!

That shows how ignorant you guys are! You should ALWAYS question authority!

Learn about Chapter 11 and federal bankruptcy!

The problem with the Sandy storm is those folks chose to live so close to shore and so close to sea level fully knowing a massive storm could hit and destroy everything!

So why in the hell should federal tax dollars help? They made the stupid choice of living there, why should we have to pay for them!

I will agree to pay to have them migrate out of that area and live at higher elevations away from the shores! But when they are going to build in the exact same spot as before and another storm wipes them out and we have to pay for their losses again, no way!

They have insurance, it's their problem, not the federal governments! We do not even have enough tax revenue to fund the federal government and now the states seek more handouts!

Insteade of spending on trying to get rid of soft drinks in NYC as an example, they should have spent the tax money on building barriers, etc... to prevent the massive flooding!

But hey, when you morons support INCOMPETANT governments that cannot prepare for massive natural storms like this fully knowing a good chunk of the population lives near the shores and near sea level, don't come yelling at me for not having a heart!

They chose to live there, they bear the responsibility for their decisions!

The local governments chose to spend tax money on fluff insteade of preparing barriers, etc..., again they are responsible for their decisions!

And the REAL shocker is just 6 inches more of flood surge and one of the local nuclear power plants would have melted down like Fukishima! Again where is the priority of these folls on the east coast?

Get off the sob stories and stick to the facts and ask questions of why did these folks did not prepare for this category 1 storm? Why weren't storm barriers, ways to move storm surge out of populated areas, other protections or simply zoning that allowed folks to live so close to sea level approved... I mean start asking questions because this disastor will happen again!

@oxi - I'm impressed. I did not know you had your Doctor of Juridical Science, an MBA, and MA in Political Science.

Was that something you took when you got your weather spotter's badge?

I did not know you had asked a question.

Is this like Jeopardy?

Alex, I'll take delusional demigods for a $1,000 please.



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