Top 5 Options That Should Be Standard

Top 5 lead II

Over the course of a year, we drive a lot of pickup trucks. If there's another automotive outlet that drives more pickups than we do, we've never heard of it. If there's another source for pickup truck information that has more passionate and knowledgeable readers, we've never seen it.

Because of that, when we say there are certain features that should be on every pickup sold across the size and price universe, it should mean something.

We've collected our top five options - based on our own observations and comments from readers - that should not be options anymore. These need to be standard equipment.

Of course, this is only a partial list, and we want suggestions: Give us your top existing or brand-new options that should be part of the standard features list on every pickup. Although things like trailer-sway control, tire pressure monitors and backup cameras will be standard on all pickups soon, we'd like to see a few of these others as well. Join the conversation.


No. 5: Exact Tire Pressure Readouts

Top 5 Tire Press readout II
"Idiot lights" are fine for idiots, but we'd rather know exactly what is going on with each tire on our truck - in fact, we think that it's a safety issue. Depending on temperatures, tire pressure can fluctuate as much as 5 to 7 psi in either direction, and that will certainly affect how a vehicle handles and responds to varying situations. Add some center-of-gravity-shifting weight in the bed and things can get unpredictable quickly. Additionally, every truck should have some kind of switch that understands that you'll want lower tire pressure when four-wheeling (when you want a larger contact patch) and a higher threshold setting when carrying heavier loads and you need tires (especially the rears) to stay at maximum inflation. We shouldn't have to look at a "low pressure" light just because the sensor isn't smart enough to know how smart we are.


No. 4: Real-Time Transmission Gear Readout

Top 5 Trans readout II
We're not sure this is an actual safety issue, but we know we miss it every time we get into a truck that's not an F-Series. I like knowing what my transmission is doing and how much work and gear-changing it's going through, especially if there's a situation coming that could force me to drop into a manual gear-select mode. Whether it's a small digital readout in the corner of the instrument panel or a lineup of numbers at the bottom of the information screen, I paid for the whole transmission, so I want to be able to see exactly what gear I'm in at any moment. All the data and electronics are there, so use them to give us the information we need.


No. 3: Transmission Grade Braking

Top 5 Grade Braking II
This is another of those technologies that we miss when we jump from truck to truck. Your transmission is already smart enough to know: * When you're headed downhill * The size of the load you're carrying * And whether you need to be in a lower gear hold That's information engine sensors and computer controllers already have access to. Having the brake pedal available to tap once or twice to instigate a shift or two just makes it easier to keep your truck (and possibly a good-sized load) under control. Every new transmission is smart enough, so let's make the feature available to every pickup driver. And if we want a more aggressive grade-braking setting, let us hit the tow/haul button.


No. 2: Payload Readout

Top 5 Scale readout II
We know not everyone is going to pull a trailer with their pickup, so we're comfortable not making integrated brake controllers a standard feature, even though we like them a lot. Let those who need them order and pay for them separately. However, we're going to assume that every person who purchases a pickup is going to carry some kind of load in the bed, and the more educated those drivers become about the exact weight (and even distribution) of that load, the safer they'll be on the road. I don't want a driver to have the excuse that he didn't know his load was 800 pounds over the maximum payload capacity of his truck, and that's why his brakes overheated and caused him to blow through a red light. There's a $15 scale in my bathroom that lets me know how much I weigh. Why can't there be an electronic readout on my dash (or in my info center) to let me know how much weight sits in my pickup bed? It seems that any load-leveling technology offered by an original equipment manufacturer, at a minimum, should be able to get some kind of tongue-weight calculation from the sensors.


No. 1: Headlight Adjust Switch

Top 5 headlight adjust switch II
Again, we'll go out on a limb here and assume that if you want a pickup truck, you have some kind of load to carry in the bed of your truck. We understand you won't be carrying that load most of the time, but for those times when you do carry a good-sized load at night, here are some simple facts: Gravity will push the back of your truck down and point your headlights directly into the eyes of oncoming traffic. And for that reason every pickup should have a small multisetting switch that lets drivers adjust headlights down. That little safety feature (one that's on just about every family-toting minivan sold) helps keep everyone on the road safe, trucker or not.



This went from items that could be standard to arguing strongest box and stiffedt frame or whatever I just skimmed through that rubbish so I probably misquoted.

1.V-8 engine !!!

2.Posi-Trac !!

3.4wd !

4.Matching fullsize spare,especially when you have mag wheels a matching one would be great,even el cheapo models at least a matching full size spare with the same tire and wheel as what is on the truck already.

5.Thats all I can think of as most trucks have ps/pb/ac/good stereo's,power seats,most have tire pressure readout and mpg/temp controls and keyless entry for decades even on base models I know Dodge Ram trucks has most of those on el cheapo models.

@Z Truck Guy !
Don't you get 5 of the same rims and tyres on a pickup?

That is cheap considering the rims aren't expensive when the manufacturers by them by the million.

I got 5 of the exact same tire, but the spare rim is a black steel one, and my wheels are aluminum. Beats having a non full size wheel and tire.

@hemi lol, oops, I meant I force lol!: Actually, if you have read my posts, you would see I bitched about payload on crew cab Rams, I said they need to improve the roof. Oh weight you didn't read that post? I have said it before a few times. I have given credit to Tundra for a good geared transmission, and bitched about the 545-RFE Ram trans. Which is smooth and works for me, but the capicity and mileage and smothness should all go up with the eight speed, finally!

Damn, I even drive A 96 Camry. Fixing to sell it too, cause it isn't that comfortable. Solid drivetrain, the rest of the cars comes appart. Well, the 2200 anyway. The v-6 in the Camry in 96 was another story ( I am sure you will say it's great, because it's a Toyota. Sounds like you are the one with your Toyota blinders on!

Really? Your truck tells you the EXACT oil temp, exact oil pressure, exact water temp, exact trans temp?

Lets see, that Tundra got second place in the 30 K shootout. They put weight on it and it didn't stop so well. The typical response by readers on here is to blame the tires for poor braking. They are both on 70 series tires. But the Tundra was up there with the Silverado as far as how it stopped with a load. I never heard any response from you, I guess you act like it didn't happen? How about the handling of that Tundra? Yeah, sure it beat that Ramup the hill, old news that the Ram trans doesn't have as much gear as a Tundra. Come to think of it, I have actually pointed out to a few poeple (that complain about the Tundras 4.3 gears in a shootout) that the Ford with a 6 speed and 3.73 has more first gear. If you remember, I even pointed out to people the Tundra has a far broader powerband then some Ford engines, so I aint all about bashing, trying to keep it real. But you being a salesman, your way is to constantly bad mouth the others. As if Toyota is perfect.

Oh: "the parts are made HERE". Where is here? I know a Ram is 67% US/Canadian and 22 % Mexico. the Tundra? 74% or so US/Canada and how much Mexico? Gotta be some? I would guess not enough that it needs to be shown on the window sticker, so what does that leave comming from Japan? Sounds like alot. No, I wasn't going there, but since you brought it up.
I prefer NORTH AMERICAN, I am sure you will want to slam Mexico. As if they are lesser the Canadians (no offense to Lou, or others) Just saying...I have worked with alot of people from Mexico, hard workers, the majority. Wow, those Tundras barely got built after the earthquake. That shows where parts come from.

Oh, btw, I do wish Ram had Telescoping steering. I got my adjustable pedals, but it wouldn't hurt to have yet one more way to get comfortable in a truck.

@TRX4 Tom
That is one thing our utes need as well is telescopic steering column.

I think the VW Amarok is the only ute (outside of GMH and Ford Falcon utes) that provide telescopic steering columns.


My own half ton is a 2009 Silverado V8. I bought a then-new 1988 S10 with the 4.3 V6 and put almost 200k on it in ten yrs. Both were/are good trucks. Overhead camshaft engines are in EVERY Cadillac (except for the Escalades, which have Chevy engines). Evidently, GM will someday adopt DOHC across all of its lines of cars someday. My wifes old GMC Acadia had the 3.6 DOHC engine and it's still running fine hauling the grandkids around. Multi-valve heads and DOHC is the way to go.


you went right back to bashing my character again? really tom? yes the truck they gave for the shootout has those crappy michelin street tires with no traction rating. no i dont agree the truck would take longer to stop because i have PERSONALLY drove these trucks with 900lbs ballast in the bed with a 3500lb trailer behind it and the consistently the tundra stops faster than the others when the tundra isnt equipped with the steel wheels with those michelins on it. i will go on record to say that this is the ONLY michelin tire ive ever NOT liked too. its one of those tires you just why do they use that thing?

The Tundra is 75% US North American parts content with only 10% from Japan. the rest obviously comes from other countries Mexico included. The AWESOME sounding JBL sound system thats in my truck has components of it that say its from mexico. i dont have a ton of problem with mexico building things as they are hard workers, i DO however have a problem with a manufacturer MOVING production and parts From the US TO there to avoid paying more for assembly. My dislike for the detroit three TRULY stems from them OPENLY not givin a crap about the american public and shipping jobs over the border. I PERSONALLY would much rather give my money to a company that keeps investing in our economy and the citizens here. the badge on the hood means NOTHING anymore due to a global economy.

Last time i checked if a truck has 15,000 parts you cant build it with 14,999 of them with one missing so OF course the earthquake hurt production.........

PS your truck has pedals that move and the Tundra has a telescopic steering wheel. while i DO like the telescopic wheel better because the steering column is Also collapsable in an accident they BOTH achieve the same thing and that is changing how far the steering wheel and pedals are away from each other. i dont know of anyone who does both or why they would .....

I was under the impression that the powers that be were 'cleaning' up this site.This is still like an automotive kindergarten.Too bad......such potential going to waste.


Where I live (rural, northern MN) pretty much all but the main arterial roads freeze up some time in late November and stay that way until March or so. So most everything is hard-packed snow for a good percentage of the year.

I have selectable ox lockers in my Jeep, so I'm no stranger to how they perform in a given situation. While you may be right that a rear locker in a 2WD is almost as good as 4WD with open diffs for low speed things like getting unstuck or pulling a boat up a boat ramp, having just the rear end locked in 2wd at higher speeds on icy roads is a sure recipe for ending up in the ditch shiny side down. Running in 4WD with open diffs on icy roads increases stability by several orders of magnitude.

@PapaJim, We love our F-150 and Super Duty both. The latter being my daily driver and the 150 as my wife's. Neither have pushrod engines and that's fine. They are reliable as the day is long. However, I still prefer pushrod engines and have even said I wish Ford would have built on the old 302's and 351's like Chevrolet has done with the SBC. The only reason Ford even went this way is because all of this engine development was done with Lincoln in mind for the early 90's and they didn't want it to go to waste. Even with that, I'd rather have a pushrod engine in a Lincoln with the way a company like Chevrolet builds them for Cadillac's. I'm not super familiar with the Dodge engine. Overhead cam's also did not appear in Indy around 1925. They appeared in the first auto engines in the late 1800's. It was the simplest way to stick a camshaft on top of the valves in a 4cyl engine. If anything, the OHC design came first and is the oldest. Cam in block designs came decades later like what's being discussed here with V8's. It's the newer technology of the two. If you even want to call these things technology. I call them packaging. Simple engine parts packaging.. And the cam in block design like what Chevrolet has been using for 58 years now is far more efficient packaging.

I've said before if I were to build an old Ford truck or hotrod I'd still use a SBC engine. Old SBC or the updated design. The packaging and use of space is far superior. You also have to keep in mind this engine is used in the Chevrolet Corvette as well. A big OHC 5.4 like my Super Duty has would never work. They are sticking in cam in block SBC's with over 7.0 litres of displacement in a package far smaller than my 5.4 litres and putting down huge power numbers.

Chevrolet still has the best engines in the business. It's the rest of their truck that went to the dogs over the last 10-20 years. It's why I left the company and joined Ford like most of my family has been for generations. I suppose I was the rebel for 20 or 30 good years being a Chevy guy. Ford just puts more quality, luxury and design thought into their trucks and cars now over what Chevy has. The engines however are in no way superior to what Chevrolet has. I also agree with Mark's list up top. Especially the weight scale.

@FordTrucks1--I agree with you on the short block chevy engine. I especially like the old 327s and 350s. I hope that the new Silverado is much better even though it looks much the same except a nicer front and a little nicer interior. I agree they should have done more but any improvement is at least a start. It will be interesting to see the new SS Chevy when it is released and what the car magazines say about it once they test one. I would like to hope that Chevy goes through a revival. I would like to see Ford and Chrysler continue their successes as well.

Digressive monotube dampers. (shocks for the layperson)
Be it Bilstein or another brand.

One option that most of the automakers are doing now is lighting in the bed. This is a nice touch that is really useful in the early morning or nighttime.

As cheap as they are now either a backup camera or at least the sensors should be standard. An all-around view would be nice as the upgrade package. I'd also like to see some type of 110v plug-ins in the bed area. Contractors would love them. When the eventual hybrids or plug-ins arrive this should be very easily doable and have sufficinet capacity to run a tool for a couple of hours without the truck even on.

Payload readout would be cool. But I can see the dealerships not honoring warrenty items because "you overloaded the truck". "Sorry sir, your toy hauler was 12500 LBS, that over our max towing capacity. Drivetrain warrenty void."

The five items listed are all well and good, but to me, what I think, is that every pickup should come with some type of MECHANICAL limited slip or traction lock differential. Not these stupid electron brake differentials or whatever they call it this week. Say it with me..NO MORE PEG LEGS!

Very good suggestions! Any manufacturers paying attention???

It would be nice to have engine power level adjustment so you could reduce horsepower when not hauling or towing and then have the ability to increase power when needed, this might help with better mpg when running empty.

@FordTrucks1 I did not say that the 1925 Indy was the first appearance of overhead cam engines. I said that they had competed in that event--which happens to be correct. I appreciate your fondness for the Ford truck, but my last Ford sucked. I like the old Windsor engines but they are history! In five years all new V8s will be OHC engines, with the possible exception of some HDs maybe. Name a top brand worldwide that's still making the pushrod engines. Daimler? no BMW no, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, it's too long a list. It's ok to be sentimental about the old SBCs and Clevelands and Windsors, I have rebuilt a few down through the years. But it's over.

Dav and Hemi lol:

It is fact that is has the weakest frame in the segment. Sorry if you feel differently, but you can't argue with FACT.

@hemi lol

Please get us facts and figures of all the manufacturers. Once you do that perhaps we can look at the R&D numbers in proportionality to the amount of trucks they sell compared to the trucks the competition sells. And please calm down, you are creating a riot on here.


@hemi lol

PS: About safe is it to have no brakes and a sticky accelerator pedal? If you ask me I think every company is about as safe as their competition is.

@papa jim Name a top brand worldwide that's still making the pushrod engines.

GM is, they are worldwide, and sale with in the top 3 world wide. What was it 2011 they outsold everyone world wide? Long live pushrod enigines!!

@johnny doe--Great handle, Johnny! I don't hate GM--I drive a Silverado every day. I don't hate tradition--I'm about as conservative as you can get. The engines I worked on fifty years ago were all pushrod motors--except my 72 Vega. It simply is not the direction that the world is going. Name a car maker that's going to be making pushrod V8s in five years! GM makes OHC motors in all the Buicks, Caddies and Chevys except for Escalades and pickups. My Chevy pickups have all been great and NONE had a OHC in 'em. It just is not the direction that things are moving in.

I agree with papa jim. the pushrod engine has some packaging/mass advantages to a point but in terms of all out potential they are limited in the emmission and power department. Fuel economy is pretty good given the power levels but that often has to do with the torque curve/gearing/aerodynamics.

the new ZR-1 is supposed to be around 700 hp which is cool and all but so are current Ferrari's and Lambo's and those motors can do a lot more without having to be force injected. If one were to put a supercharger onto the V-12 of the Ferrari F12 you'd likely be in the 900+ hp range and the ability to rev past 10,000 RPM. I know it isn't an apples to apples comparison here but the displacement is roughly the same and both are top level sports cars. Even given the $100-150k price difference from the ZR-1 to the F-12 the F-12 the Ferrari is a much better car with mpg's that are quite comparable to the ZR-1.

Point being for GM to make the pushrod motors comparable to future competition it takes drastic measures to get the power and the sacrifice is the weight, size and economy that the pushrod is known for. They will have to pick a direction to go in and like papa jim I'd put my bet into the OHC winning out long term (the new gen 5 motors will likely run up to 10 years)

I think the pentastar motor was the one best suited for the next couple of generations since multiple block sizes can be made off of one casting and it can accomodate multiple head/valve arrangements and still be cost effective like the GM engines since again it is one casting design and universal parts. I expect the next gen pentastar with Fiat's updated multi-air and DI to be awesome in terms of power density, mpg's, cost and torque curve. Yeah they goofed on the initial run with the ticking heads but it was quickly fixed. Fords Coyote V8 also has a lot of life in it and I have high hopes for the DI version in both the Mustang (with a good rear suspension for a change) and F-series.

@papa jim

I'm not saying you hate GM, just answering you're question (Name a top brand worldwide that's still making the pushrod engines).

This is a possibility for the future ICE...without any camshafts,in block or otherwise:


R&D figures are readily available online just google it. Toyota spends more than Every single company in the world PERIOD.

I'm plenty calm by the way. you seem to be as blind as turdra lol from the mainstream media's BS. sticky accelerator????? really? that was 2010 when it was PROVED that it NEVER HAPPENED! where you been bub?

@ turdra lol

it is only a FACT that you dont understand engineering. you believe what you like, i'll continue to understand the difference.

@ Papa Jim,

Dodge had 4 wheel discs on its trucks sincve the 90's...and an option on cars since the early 70's (Imperial had them) Heck Toyota and Honda still has points ignition in the early 90's on some models lol Dodge was electronic in the early 70's...

Furthermore,pushrods are more reliable ,duel overhead cams are a nightmare ! Toyota cant build a v-8 to save their life,cam issues are plenty on Toyota trucks with the V-8 ! And Ford over head cam engines are a rolling joke,cam issues,sparkplug in head issue yeah..$1000 plus for a tune-up and thats if the plug doesnt break in the head ! I believe Toyota still has 4 sp auto's in some models..Dodge RAM has 6 speed and 8 speed automatics in its trucks and 5 speed auto's since the late 90's and I know 2002 for sure..Though the good old 3 speed automatics were good enough for most even today as they are more reliable and less expensive to rebuild I can immagine what a 8 speed auto will cost to rebuild...if you keep your truck for along time and 150,000 plus hard miles ! The only real reason for 8 spd automatics are for fuel economy,and they put a lower first gear for better performance..but for reliabilty,more parts equals more problems and more expensive to repair,same with duel overhead cam engines a real nightmare ! Thats why there are a ton of used Ford with cmmer engines for sale,they know they are riddled with problems..

@ the mechanic

what a name....... you claim that Ford OHC engines have problems, you are correct. You also claim that OHC Toyota V8's have problems......... UM what problems? that they run for hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues at all? and you claim to be a mechanic? come on man!!! Toyota has used 5 spd auto trans since 2003 when only the allison behind the duramax had a 5spd. the Tundra was the FIRST half ton with a 6 speed trans in 07! OH and points on a toyota in the 90's??? dude you havent turned a wrench in YOUR LIFE if you think that points were used in the 90's on ANY car. you must be confused by what electronic ignition looks like with a distributor cap.

Riddle me this......when is GM gonna give us some freakin' engine data. This is BS.

I hate the idiot light tps Id would rather have nothing than it. But the real pressure read out I never thought of that would be awesome. As far as traction control to turn it off in my Ram is just one big button so I have no complaints about having to push it again if I turn the truck off. The only downside to purchasing the express though IMHO was that I do not have a trans temp gauge or an oil pressure gauge. Not now but one day I bet Ill be sorry I didnt have itl

To compare apples to apples, when looking for a new truck in 2011, I looked at the Ford 5.0l and the hemi 5.7. They both got the same 19mpg highway. Big difference between 5.0 and 5.7. Hemi has more power and torque. I have nothing against OHC motors, but if there's no advantage why buy one? This was comparing a Ram Quad 4wd to a Ford Supercab 4wd. Also, the 5.0 I believe is direct injection and the hemis not. DI engines always get better mpg verses non DI with everything being equal.

@ Fred

the 5.0 Ford V8 does not currently have DI. if we grossed up the factory power and torque figures for the 14% displacement advantage of the Hemi the Ford would be producing 410 hp and 433 lbs of torque. Both trump the 2011 Hemi and the 2013 Hemi (albeit not by any significant amounts). My gut tells me the DI version coming for the 2015 all new F150 will probably be 5 liters still but power will be up at least 20 to 380 and torque will likely be at 400 flat.

I think with the DI the torque curve will be a bit more flat and there really wont be a need for the 6.2. For the Ram's Hemi I think we'll see more VVT or multiair type of valvetrain with an emphasis more on economy than power but I anticipate the 5.7 to make it over the 400 hp mark.

Both are good choices. I can't wait to test an 8-speed Hemi. I think this will be an excellent tow vehicle thanks to all of the 1st gear torque.

We had this whole discussion on another thread in relation to OHC/SOHC/DOHC versus cam in block OHV designs.
Cam in block does have a packaging advantage. Shelby will not be able to use the 5.4 in the next Mustang due to a lack of head room.
The 5.4 has a much better torque curve than the 5.3 and it is DOHC. That flies in the face of the argument that OHV has more torque.
I'd much rather have DOHC in a performance car when people start to mention the Corvette. I'm not wealthy enough to play in that arena but I'd rather have a Ferrari, BMW, AMG Mercedes ect over a Corvette.
When it comes to North American V8's the RPM isn't high enough to prove that overhead cam is more reliable. Both live fine at the RPM ranges of our engines. They've all had problems and they all are reliable. Lemons and teething problems occur.
At the end of the day, I'm not too concerned as to where the cam(s) is located. I am more concerned with the power characteristics. That has more to do with the overall design than cam location.

Lou: isn't the extra tq in the 5.4 due to a longer stroke? with the 5.4 being over square? and the 5.3 being a short stroke engine, that in itself would mean something! seeing as long stroke engine make more low rpm tq less high rpm hp?

msut be a slow truck news week huh?

@Hemi lol

I think you need to be on a 12 step program, you have got to get over this Tundra is a awesome amazing truck program.

let's start with acceptance...

Minus the fact we all know about the craptastic cam failures, horrible frames allowing insane bed bounce and the fragile always a problem transmission, I will just focus on some engine failures that you say never happen...

Nice story of a tundra being used for work and failing
"Approximately 2 and 1/2 weeks ago, I noticed my engine light came on in my 2011 Toyota Tundra Rock Warrior, so I decided to take it to a local shop that is approximately 3 miles from my home instead of going to the dealer that is approximately 35 miles from my home. After getting to the shop, explaining to the owner that my engine light was on, he plugged my Toyota into his diagnostic machine and the code came up stating it was a bad camshaft sensor. After doing research on the computer just to see the negative effects of a bad camshaft sensor, I knew this was the problem with the Toyota - lack of horsepower and bad fuel consumption. (I checked this out on my own, just so I knew exactly what the negative effects of a bad sensor would be.) Not having the chance to get my Toyota to the shop immediately due to work, with all the testimonials I have read, I figured I was okay to keep driving.

Well, on Tuesday, November 6th, I had to go check on a job that is in a rural environment, I began to proceed a dirt/muddy driveway log landing(due to the rainy weather we had) I proceeded to put the truck in four-wheel drive, which I do multiple times daily. It should be known that I am a forestry consultant that needs a rugged truck, due to the line of work, going to check on multiple logging crews throughout the day. On that 6th day of Tuesday while driving up to the logging site, I began to get some hard knocking coming from my engine, so I decided from what I learned it was time to get the truck back home and call the dealer to see if I can get my truck in ASAP. I had the Toyota flat bedded to the dealer and upon a diagnosis from the dealer. They said they have to start dismantling the motor. Talking with the service department rep, he was more interested to get my okay to start the work. When I did ask him what the problem was, he was very vague on his response of me knowing what they had diagnosed. They began to accuse me of getting the truck stuck because there was mud underneath the truck.

I am forestry consultant and that is why I bought the truck. In my kind of work, it is unavoidable to not get my truck muddy but it should be known that I take special care of this truck, oil changed approx. every 3000-4000 miles where the dealer specs are every 5000miles. I have had my truck detailed this past May and wash the truck approx. three times a week at a Touch-less Car Wash. (I have all the receipts to clarify.) Having the dealer make me feel like I was negligent with my truck, I felt, was inappropriate. I really had a hard time with this because he also said I was unable to get a rental vehicle knowing that my work depends on having my truck for my business. I do have a 6-year/60000-mile warranty on the drive train, and also a 72-month/125000 after the 6-year/60000-mile warranty is up. "

I can keep going...


why don't you go ahead and find any of those engines that last beyond oh say 50k miles with out failure. They are tiny piston high strung motors. That is the point I was making earlier, this big cube V8's make tons of power and aren't close to being tapped out, in other words they are almost restricted. Those V12's and stuff have cute little pistons and are mostly tapped out, you won't get much more power with intake or exhausts, there isn't much tuning to be done for more power.

Some of the most strenuous racing that can be done is offshore powerboats, what are historically and currently the best engines? Cam in block blown large cubic inch V8's...


That is also why those motors last so long, they aren't being worked as hard.

@ Tyler

I know there are a lot of Corvettes around at the 100-130k mile range. I see them all the time on Craigslist. Yes they can last a long time but as a long time owner of every generation of Corvette (save the C7 for obvious reasons) they all have some gremlins, just like the Italian cars, they just tend to be cheaper to fix.

Some are used as virtually daily drivers so over 15 years they can pile up a 6 figure mileage range. the owner of a Ferrari likely has 3 other vehicles and therefore they only drive 3000 miles a year. By time they are done with them they only have 30-40k miles over that same 15 years.

I'm trying to start any kind of argument because I love them all but there is a reason we don't see OHV and CIB for say an I-4 of 2.2 liters. Eventually there is diminishing returns to scale because of the heat issues there would need to be much more surface area to dissapate the heat which means that size is a limiting on and so forth. I think more due to emmissions compliance GM will have to change course since there is limited valvetrain choices to help rectify the issues (as I noted in some previous post).

No engine design is inherently bad, just different or possibly right or wrong given the intended application.



I would like or pay extra for old style knob radio....and love to have 'self dimming headlights"

@sandman4X4 - That was part of the point I was trying to make. There are design parameters beyond the location of the cam that affects torque. The 5.4 is a long stroke motor. Guys from the GM camp will slag it for the lack of "over rev" but even after it passes its HP and torque peak, it still makes more torque than the 5.3 right up to redline.

@howam00 - "No engine design is inherently bad, just different or possibly right or wrong given the intended application."

That is one of the best comments I've read on this site in a real long time.

@Tyler - you seem to keep looking at things from a Chevy and North American perspective. Any number of European V8's produce more power and torque than our V8's. European engines are shrinking. Where V12's were common, we are now seeing V10's and V8's. We've seen downsizing in North America, for example 460's, 454's (7.5 litre) etc were the top dogs in pickups, we now have 6.2's and 5.7's as the biggest engines.
I'd be more inclined to put my money on an Aston Martin hemi V8 from the 60's through the '80's for performance and reliability than one from Chrysler. BTW, that Aston engine was DOHC. Porsche and Jaguar also used hemi's. I haven't looked at their specs but I doubt they were pushrod V8's.
I find it highly unlikely that offshore powerboating on the other side of the pond will be running our engines.

There is nothing wrong with cam in block. Our V8's don't tend to rev too high therefore the advantages to OHC engines aren't all that relevant.
The new Vette engine is supposed to shut fuel off at 6,600 rpm. That isn't all that high. Power is supposed to be around 450 hp.
The Boss 302 engine will rev much higher with peak power around 7,400 rpm. The rev limit is supposed to be around 7,500. It is rated at 444 hp. (With the track key in the ignition).
You can make cam in block live at those rpm but overhead cam will fare better.
If we do hop the pond, the 458 Italia is powered by a 4.5-liter V8 with 562 horsepower at 9,000 rpm (125 horsepower per liter, a record for naturally-aspirated piston engines). Torque is rated at 398 lb-ft at 6,000 rpm, 80 percent of which is available from 3,250 rpm.
That engine has won multiple awards and should prove that if outright performance is what you want, overhead cams are the way to go.

I do like some of the features presented in this article and in the comments section, but I do see a valid argument about not offering some of these features in that they would increase the cost of manufacturer thus making trucks more expensive particularily in trucks designated as work only trucks. I have enjoyed reading this article and some of the comments as well.


Maybe for AUTOMOBILE engines...

"125 horsepower per liter, a record for naturally-aspirated piston engines"

My 2006 Triumph Speed Triple 1050 makes around 135 HP which is a bit over 128.5 HP/L. (And that's measured at the rear wheel! God only knows what it would be measured at the crank like a car or truck engine.)

600 Supersport bikes are making well over 100 horsepower these days, putting the 107 HP Kawasaki ZX-6 at a staggering 178.3 horsepower per liter.

...and pretty much any 2-stroke MX bike would even put that to shame. My old CR125 makes around 30 HP...thats 240 HP/L! Ring-a-ding-ding-ding!!! said"naturally-aspirated piston engines!" =)

FordTrucks1 I did not say that the 1925 Indy was the first appearance of overhead cam engines. I said that they had competed in that event--which happens to be correct. I appreciate your fondness for the Ford truck, but my last Ford sucked. I like the old Windsor engines but they are history! In five years all new V8s will be OHC engines, with the possible exception of some HDs maybe. Name a top brand worldwide that's still making the pushrod engines.

@PapaJim, Chevrolet's SmallBlock is still a pushrod engine. The new Generation 5 will be around for far longer than the next five years. As long as there is the Corvette and Chevrolet diehards who love the SBC, there will be V8 pushrod engines. It's still why I think Chevy has a lock on engine loyalists. Their trucks might suck now but not the engines. I'd still take a Chevrolet engine in a Ford truck as the ideal set up. If you prefer OHC engines however, buy a Ford. I did. And it runs great! Nothing wrong with OHC engines. I just can't fall in love with them myself and I drive one every day. Lou is right ultimately. Both will work just fine.

@ tyler

i cant even argue with you. you are COMPLETELY lost. those links except for the last one are from misuse and the one that had a problem right outside of warranty if you read the comments within the first PAGE EVERY SINGLE PERSON HAD A STORY JUST LIKE IT FROM ANOTHER MANUFACTURER.

you claim the engine has tiny pistons and are high strung. you absolutely just secured that you know NOTHING about an engine. go ahead and post some stats of the pistons in the iforce 5.7 and some other engines of similar size...............

@Jason H. - you are correct. I should of been more specific. Sport bikes and dirt bikes have been the king of HP per litre for decades. I've owned a few open class mx bikes. No lack of power, that is for sure.
The interesting thing is the fact that these bikes have become so extremely powerful that it is now a case of who has the best traction control system for differentiating which is the best bike.
Sport bikes have traditionally run flatplane cranks. Yamaha went to a crossplane crank with the R1 to help soften power delivery. V-twin sport bikes have done well because of the less violent power deilvery of their I-4 counterparts.

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