PUTC at the 2013 New York Auto Show

NY Auto Show II

By Aaron Bragman

New York City and pickup trucks aren't quite the matched pair that, say, Dallas and pickup trucks or Phoenix and pickup trucks are. During the New York International Auto Show, the major manufacturers tend to focus more on luxury cars or high-mileage city cars, leaving the trucks for events like the Texas State Fair or even the Chicago Auto Show. That doesn't mean there isn't some pickup truck interest here in the Big Apple — OK, actually it does — but there are some things here at the show that we can apply to the truck world.

NY EcoDiesel[5]

First and foremost is the appearance of a light-duty diesel engine under the hood of the new 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The 3.0-liter EcoDiesel is a fantastic engine — I drove it in the Grand Cherokee last month and can attest to its smoothness, massive torque and wallet-pleasing fuel efficiency. In a Grand Cherokee, the engine is a high-priced alternative to the Hemi V-8. In a Ram 1500, however, where the engine is next expected to show up, it could be an extraordinary workhorse option for buyers whose primary purpose is towing or hauling. Chrysler has been mum on when exactly we should expect the EcoDiesel in the Ram 1500, but don't be too surprised if it shows up sometime next year. It's going to be a crowd pleaser.

NY HondaVAC[3]

Honda's Ridgeline can be considered a pickup despite being built on the company's minivan platform, but that shared lineage might be good for something new: the HondaVac system. The company just unveiled HondaVac at the New York show. It's a built-in vacuum developed in partnership with ShopVac that's neatly integrated into the rear trim panel of the new 2014 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite minivan. We got to thinking — minivans and vacuums go together pretty well, but why not drop that puppy into the Ridgeline? Pickups venture into rougher and dirtier terrain than minivans, so why not tote along a built-in vacuum cleaner to suck up the dust, mud and dirt that accumulates on the floor mats? Or better yet, up-size the machine to work-site duty standards and have Mopar make it a drop-in accessory for the RamBox.

NY Shelby Raptor[5]

One new pickup was unveiled at the New York show, but technically it's not from a major manufacturer. Shelby American, the company that brought you the wide-body GT500 Super Snake Mustang and the 1,100-horsepower Shelby 1000 Mustang, is now offering the Shelby Raptor. Arriving with all the subtlety of a roundhouse kick to the face, the Shelby Raptor will have a 575-horsepower supercharged engine option with packages that start at $18,000 above the cost of the new Ford SVT Raptor. Shelby script a foot tall adorns the body-side and rear window just to let everyone know what you've got. Shelbys have never been about anonymity, and the newest one won't be either.



This is great Ford! We need more of it.

Only if they were cheaper.

I should agree with you, but is it him.

I do apologise. You think you are annoyed.

I do empathise with your frustration. But to be called anti American is something I will not tolerate.

Then to be multi posted thinking I will stop or PUTC will take me off the site is quite simplistic.

Remember how much is what I'm actually posting. Just because you see my name doesn't necessarily mean its my post.

As I have stated Mark Williams is trying to resolve this issue.

I have been open and have been taking much of the flak.

Sorry again, but I do lash out, which most commentors would do. Especially after reading some of the retorts.

I cannot wait to hear all the crying from the Ford and Ram boys when GM announce the power specs for the new engines in their new pickups.

Updated March 29, 2013, 7:39 p.m. ET.Ford Faces Acceleration Lawsuit



LA LA LA LA LA yall on some drugs hardcore LA LA LA LA LA in dream land some where LA LA LA LA LA skip pass all the retarded comments LA LA LA LA LA LA!

Raptor, Yes it is him. These are all of his quotes. There are more. I don't know what his problem is, but he definitely has a screw loose and is a troll.

And now for a break from the childish bickering.....

A vacuum cleaner integral to a pickup is an interesting idea, I just don't think it is for me.

Its a good idea but it aint for me eighter. my truck has a rubber floor and rubber floor mats so wouldnt get used at all and it'd be easier to wheel the shop vac to each door during spring clean up. But I bet it would be a hot seller in any minivan or suv.

I can see where you are coming from.

There seems to be a group of guys busting his balls as well.

Probably bored school kids.


Normal, Big Al from Oz, VM, Apollo 13, Guerilla Marketing and many other names are all Big Al from Oz. When he gets called out he plays the victim and insults people with linees such as you work for Fiat, you are a school kid, you haven't gone to school, you are dumber than (insert word here), you work for the EPA, etc. Al has been found out, and my sources say there have been no ip's banned and nobody is trying to resolve Al's issue. That is another lie Al is telling so he can play victim. He just admitted that has been here to bust people's balls.

When another editior was here a few years ago, he put a stop to people like Al who hijack every thread. This is what the basis of his hijack and snobby posting has been from day one: talk down to people, tell people how dumb they are, promote everything in the Euro and Aussie market as great and everything American as stupid/dumb/poor (never mind the fact that this is a US market site.)

His act is getting old and a lot of people are getting tired of it. When you ask him for a link, he will get mad and call you a school kid or some other insult. He thinks his posts are indepsensible and are a great service to the ignorant Americans here, but cannot understand that this is an American market site, not so much Australian.

Take, the Raptor post for example. You would think you would be safe from Al's spam. But no, every 4th post is from Al and it's on a diesel, turning it into something the article wasn't even about. Yes, those are all Al's posts and he can deny it all he wants but those are all his. ML used to tell people these people to go to the warm room. There are separate forums for the Aussies and Euros. That's what the forums are!

If he wasn't such a hater himself people would lay off him. But as others have said, so far all I can see coming from your posts is hate for Americans and individual posters as well as argumentative and snobby comments. There are people now petitioning to have him removed from the site for breaking the only rules there are: being civil and staying on topic which he never does.

Changing your name and putting a smily face at the end of your posts doesn't hide the fact that we know it is you or any cast any less doubt in your know it all stance on every topic that comes up.

Contrary to Al's belief, we are not against Australians either. Alex is Australian but does not troll so he is welcome here and others like him. You brrought it all onto yourself. Stop the trolling, be civil and stay on topic if you post.

Not warm room. War room - it's in the discussion boards. That's where Levine used to send people like Al. If they didn't listen, he would close the comments. Al has been breaking the rules and it is understandable why people are mad and have been trying to drive him off the site.

@Paul--What you heard about the Silverado is what I was told by a manufacturer's rep for Chevy at the Cincinnati Auto expo. They are taking orders for the new Silverado and target date for dealerships is late Spring to early Summer.

@Rich--I live in Northern KY and drive to Dayton at least a couple of times a month. I would not be surprised if you did see a 2014 Silverado. I did see the one at the Cincinnati Auto Expo and it is much improved over the current one. The crewcab is easier to get into the back and it is roomier.

@K, Chrysler LLC does not have a public stock option.

Vacuum cleaner in a pickup? Good idea? Yeah right.
How about an air compressor?
Better idea and with a nozzle, you can blow the debris out of your box or dust out of your cab.

Shelby Raptor, does all of that flat black paint cost an extra 18,000? As someone else suggested, why not put the Supercharged 5.7 in it?
I want to see a shootout between the Hemi 8 speed versus the VM Ecodiesel. Throw in the new GM/Chevy with 5.3 and 6.2. Ford should be in the test with all 3 engines - 5.0, 3.5EB, and 6.2. Toyota and Nissan can show up with their trucks too.
I'm tired of shootouts with just the premium engines. Who buys them? unless they are the only real choice you have.
Spec them out the same and make sure the math for the transmissions and rear ends are as close as possible.

Like I told you, you are dumber than dog s.................

That has been the basis for my argument since posting on PUTC.

I think that the same trolls that were taking advantage of "Bob's" popularity moved onto HemiV8 when Bob and GMC faded into obscurity. Since HemiV8 is no longer the butthole of the day, the trolls are now taking advantage of "Big Al from Oz's" popularity with the USA/Big pickup types.

I like to think that the same troll(s) are responsible as it isn't too hard to find IP/URL masking software.

I do hope PUTC cleans this up. They could benefit from deleting all offending posts as quickly as possible and if necessary, shut down a thread.

@Big Al from Oz - it is funny how you seem to think yourself indispensible to PUTC and NOT a culprit of the trash on this forum.....so far all I can see coming from your posts is hate for Americans and individual posters as well as argumentative and snobby comments. Grow up please. If you weren't such a hater yourself perhaps others would layoff. Make the forum better by one instead of retaliating with more hate and provoking people to hate you in the process. Furthermore, this is an American site, not about Australia much is it, which may be causing people to doubt your know it all stance on absolutely everything that comes up. Quiet down and enjoy the ride.
Posted by: DJMcE | Mar 30, 2013 8:31:36 PM

@tom2013 Im glad im not the only one who sees this about Al. We need a seperate forums for the aussies and euros. Tired of them highjacking every thread and turning it into something the article wasnt even about.
Posted by: lautenslager | Mar 24, 2013 3:09:11 PM

I agree. Stop the hate, the hijacking and go to the euro and aussie forums if that is your deal. It's that simple.

The deal with guys like Lou is that there is notbody lef for him and others like him to stalk and ridicule anymore. That's what made up 99% of his rants. He pretty much drove all of the posters he used to converse with away with his stalking, trolling and ridicule: oxi, Bob, Buy American, and others. Lou, this just shows what an immature human being you really are. I'm sorry for you and if you need help let me know.

The numbers for the 2014 won't be revealed until closer to the sale date. GM is not even building any yet and they won't be on the lots until the summer and into the fall. They have plenty of 2013 stock to sell so it makes no sense to reveal the figures on the 2014. Ram hasn't revealed all of the numbers for the 8 speed yet, so it makes no sense for GM to reveal anything.

@Sierra - ask you for help? Do you also post under the name of Dr. Phil?
Sorry, but I get the feeling that your own shrink is kept busy enough sorting out your own personal problems..........

And thank you for proving my point - mention "Bob" and the "Bob" clones come out of the woodwork - go figure.

What are the odds of that?

Actually, I didn't mind "Buy American", I accepted his viewpoint and where he was coming from even though I didn't totally agree with his socioeconomic beliefs.

Oxi disappeared the first time after his "Zombie Apocalypse" escape plan was ridiculed by myself and several other posters.
His current disappearance followed after I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt by quoting and posting Wisconsin law that showed his truck was completely illegal for street use.
He will resurface from his BOTT cave once he feels it is safe to surface.
If not......... boo.... hoo.....

Bob - how many bloggers really give a sh-t as to whether or not he posts? Greg does a good job of covering for him.

and You?

Please refer to my prior post.

Back on topic, I know some thought GM would reveal the numbers at the NYAS.

But if I was GM If I were GM, I'd keep tweaking the engines and not release numbers until production starts and or at least not until Ram reveals their the numbers on the 2wd (very soon.)

The only problem on the tweaking is my understanding is that GenV engines are already in production. At least the 5.3L is. However they can do a computer update.

FYI, If you are a performance junkie you might have to wait because the 5.3 crewcab will only be available at launch.

PS A shop vac built into the back of a pickup truck would be a poor idea. It's a big waste of space and is totally unnecessary. Leave that stuff to the soccer moms with minvans.

Re: Semi confirmed news on next gen 2014 trucks

Originally Posted by andretti:
I can assure you there are many people at GM who know pretty much what the final specs will be. The exact numbers that will ultimately go into the marketing spin for HP/Torque might not be released, but the tested range for each is well known. The reason for not making them public is the numbers are unexceptional! If they were exceptional you can be sure GM would shout it from the roof top of the Renaissance Center.

Posted by nsap:
Um, what?

It is common practice for OEMs to withhold finalized performance stats on trucks until production starts. Ford did the same thing. They do that for two reasons: 1) competitive intelligence, and 2) they literally tweak these engines until SORP.

Your assertion that the numbers are "unexceptional" is baseless and does nothing for this discussion. I really expect better from you.

Originally Posted by andretti:
What game is that to which you're referring? I am probably THE most serious buyer on this board. I currently have (12) GMT900 Silverados in my fleet of (16) pickups. We buy 3-5 new pickups per year and have recently purchased non-GM trucks for the last purchase based on the information we were afforded. If that information is wrong, and the new engines ARE class leading in power and efficiency (highly doubtful) I would be the first to admit I was in error. I would then seriously consider the new GM trucks for a future buy. June-July 2013 time frame.

The fact that GM is quietly moving toward release to dealers without so much as a spec on power or MPG, indicates there is nothing noteworthy enough to make an announcement. The silence is deafening!

Originally Posted by TruckMan:
And what do you personally drive? You've always refused to say.

And secondly, your sources are wrong. They new engines are class leading. The new LT1 is so advanced the that they were going to write a study on its performance.

As usual, you're just here to stir things up - the definition of a troll.

Posted by andretti:
If you insist upon name calling you might want to consider yourself a GM shill. If you would spend even a moment looking at what I have posted, it would be obvious that I agree about the LT1 and have stated it several times on GMI. The problem is the LT1 will have VERY limited availability in the trucks. Unless I am wrong, GM has yet to state what the HP and Torque figure will be even for the LT1 as it will be installed in a small number of truck configurations/trim levels. The real question will be whether the 5.3L and 4.3L will be class leading.

As far as what I personally drive I have answered this from time to time in the past... I have several vehicles and all but one is in my profile (if you had bothered to look it up). Currently I drive a couple of GM vehicles, a Silverado and an Apache. I also drive a G37 and ride an R6.

I stand by my statements and output numbers previously posted. Watch what actually comes out and I will very likely be vindicated.


Thanks, but don't say too much as they will start on you.

I nearly threw the towel in the other day, but I woke up and thought, no. I will still add my points of view as necessary.

These guys will destroy the site first, they obviously how no sense of value or integrity.

Sad but true.

If this problem has been with Cars.com (PUTC) for a while, why haven't they improved security?

I don't see anything wrong with what I wrote, sorry.

When hazards exist, risk assessments are carried out. Even your vehicle, road and traffic authorites use that process. Actually all organisations. Sorry I don't concur.

Even Ram with the fire the journalist had. A risk assessment will be carried out to determine what action to take.

Also, for article like using a park brake it had 79 hits. Popular articles on PUTC are 100 or more. Only a few ever broke 200 hits, not including the duplicate posting of mine that's occurring.

DenverMike! Go and have a look on TTAC the guy is stalking me all over the site. This has been ongoing for some time.

Have a serious look at how the guy operates, sorry.

I will present facts, that can be substantiated. I have in the past and in the future. And when wrong I apologise.

Sorry Greg. I don't have to agree. I've seen alot more disention on this site.

This hole episode started as me being anti American, remember? We don't want to hear about iddy biddy trucks etc.

Its now morphing into something different.

I do apologise if you are offended by me.

So, please don't over dramatise, to the rest of the guys drop the crap and let the site go on.

One other thing. The lowest moment had to be when Al ruined the birthday post. The website has been going strong for 18 years but Al somehow managed to ruin the comments section in under a year. He just doesn't get it.


You've negated some vital information in your birthday story.

This is after the onset of the trolling against me.

Just an oversight on your part, I understand.

Greg, if you want to discuss issues with me go ahead, I'm all ears. But look at your involvement at where issues are now.

I don't like bullies, period. Bullying only makes me defiant. You are strong behind a keyboard, like I said a terrorist a guerilla. Lautenslager, zveria, even possibly DenverMike.

I appears you're the problem child I'm after and also Mark Williams. Do you get enjoyment out of ruining this site?

Listening to your comments you appear to be concerned, even if the concern is misguided.

You don't own this site. I do know Mark doesn't want me to leave the site either.

I'm objective, which is hard for emotional types like you to handle.

"Its now morphing into something different."

A DenverMike trait:)

April Fools!

So people can order a new GM 2014, but not even know what the mileage or power will be? Doesn't sound like a good way to sell trucks.

I just can't see people buying much of a truck (yet) that they haven't seen the power numbers, the mileage, have yet to drive, and or haven't even sat in it.

Some folks think they are waiting on Ram. Ram's 4x4 numbers have been out over a month. If that were the case, what says Ram won't instantly counter with something differant? Maybe they will throw a number out there that's better then the 4x2 6 speeds, and wait for GM's reply, then up it. What says you must rate a vehicle at what it gets EPA, when you can take a small step, show some improvement, and when GMs numbers are out, release all? You can under rate, right, but just not over rate? Like my brother in laws Hyndai Santa Fe turbo, that should have shown about 3 miles less highway rating. He is P.O'd.

I really don't think GM has much. They could only make (in comparison to the SRT 6.4 engines 470 torque and 470 hp) 470 torque and 500 HP from a 7 liter the Z-28 gets. If that was to get the same per inch as the 6.4 it would be about 514. Chevy will probably make it turn only 1200 rpm @75 MPH to get some un real mileage too.

Most the people that have ordered a new GM (if they are in fact taking orders) would be the kind that will buy whatever GM puts out.

I love modern turbo diesels, BUT for people who keep vehicles for 100,000+ miles you MUST factor in the cost of diesel injector replacement into the life-cycle cost of ownership.
Modern diesel injectors operate at 25,000-35,000 psi and commonly wear out at 100,000-150,000 miles depending on quality of diesel fuel and fuel filter effectiveness.
These injectors typically $600-$800 each to replace. Multiply that times 6 or 8 depending on V6 or V8 engine and you have a substantial cost verses a gasoline engine.

I agree on testing comparable emgines i found it funny that one the last half ton shootout the compared chevy 6.2s to a ford 5.4 even though the 5.3 is the comparable engine and was the top engine in the GM Twins for a while. on gear ratios id test them as standard equiped with tow and an off road pkg, ford just lowered the defualt on their fx4 and off road pkgs from 3.73 to 3.55 so an scceleration and towing loss but FE gain, maybe we should test fx4 ecoboost with 3.55, 3.73 and 4.10s and se how the gears stack up? Id say that the test should be in the standard consumer configuration, as most people buy crewcabs 4x4s for personal use thats what the test should be. and we should go with what engines people put in those trucks the most f150 its the 3.5l ecoboost, tundra its the 5.7 i force, Ram its the 5.7l Hemi, GM its the 5.3. Nissan its the 5.6. the 6.2s should be left out of the test since there only bought by people for special applications on high trim options.

@Big Al from Oz - I don't care if the same trolls start on me. That would just put more pressure on PUTC to fix the problem. Interesting to see Greg (the new Bob) to start up on bashing you.

For those of you who know too little about the internet, the admins of any given site go by more than just the stated username of the poster--they have the ability to track a commenter by their internet address (and I'm not talking about an email address but rather a series of numbers that represents EXACTLY where your specific computer resides in the world).

As such, IF anyone is spoofing somebody else's username in order to try to get that other person banned--it won't work. All you'd be doing is placing bad karma on yourself while harming nobody else.

DWFields - IP address masking software exists or someone may have access to multiple computers or several spammers/trolls are responsible. The other possibility is that Big Al is doing it all himself. The latter scenario would be easy to spot by Site Admin.
My virus software provider has a feature that can track pings or hits on one's security. It is interesting to see the number of hops those attacks take. Most of the time they originate from a country that doesn't have a very good record for prosecuting internet piracy.

It is interesting that the "Bob" gang became the "Hemi" gang and now the "Big Al" gang. When "Oxi" posts, a bunch of copycats surface as well. I mentioned "Bob" and a "bob" clone (Sierra) surfaced. I do not want to sound paranoid but there does appear to be a pattern of attacks on the quality/credibility of the news blog on this site. The spammers/trolls focus on mimicking the most controversial blogger due to the ability to cause maximum disruption on this site.

I wonder if Cars.com or PUTC has any sore ex-employees.

I'm not controversial. I post lots more on TTAC and I'm almost a conservative with my views.

The sooner the fools lay off of me the better.

Maybe these guys have 6 fingers and toes on each limb.

Also, their mother's could be their half sisters and they live in the Ozarks or Smokey Mountains and watch Fox and Friends every morning.

One thing we do know Al has admitted to using about a half dozen different names and he has written some very controversioal and devicive stuff under his main name. This has not been denied. There is also the possibility of Al doing it himself with a proxy. I have heard that cars.com does not ban ip's because of the ads. It has been estimated on facebook and other sites that fake ids and fake ad views make up most of the views in online advertising.

@Big Al from Oz - as long as others think that, you will be used as a source of strife at PUTC. I personally do not think you are controversial.

Everyone, lets take this down a notch. Nothing is worth getting in a war over. I you like big trucks, small trucks, midsize trucks, Fords, Chevys, Rams GMCs, Toyotas, or whatever who is to be the judge of that. We have one common bond, we own trucks, we like trucks, and we like to talk about trucks. That is what PUTC is all about. Let's just enjoy the conversation and be respectful of each other.

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