Investor: GM Pickups Could Close in on Ford

2014 Silverado front field II

Ford has a lot to worry about as the 2014 Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra get ready to enter the market, according to an investment expert.

What bodes well for the new pair of GM trucks, according to John Rosevear, veteran writer and investment guru for The Motley Fool, is the fact that Cadillac (another GM brand) is doing so well. Although Cadillac sold just more than 15,000 units in March 2013, the new ATS and CTS look to be huge hits for the luxury brand.

And that bodes well for investors watching how GM engineers and management navigate out of the company's ties to the federal government and into direct head-to-head competition with arch-rival Ford.

We should note that Rosevear does identify himself as both a Ford and GM stockholder, so he does have some skin in the game, but his point remains: Whether you're looking for a good investment decision in the stock market or need to invest in a new pickup truck, the new GM offers plenty to like.



General Motors as a whole out-sells anyone in Detroit and when it comes to performance we have always out-done Ford and Dodge and Ram lol, the results and numbers are facts and not opions!!! For those that say Bailout this and that, General Motors has paid back all the loans!!! Ford also borrowed money from the Feds to re-tool come plants but didn't see anything about it on this website.

The only two things that disappoint me in the 2014 GM twins is 1.) Lack of an 8spd auto.2.) No diesel option. They once again had a real shot at being #1,instead of being full of #2.

General Motors is #1

They will bring a Duramax to the 1500 and an 8 Speed Transmission, don't have to see very far to see that coming straight at you lol

wy gm always sold more pickup nothing new..

From what I have seen of the "new" GM trucks, it appears more taxpayer money has been poured down the drain.

GM is going to experience catch up growth

From what I've scene, Ford has nothing to worry with these new GM trucks. They will sell to fleet buyers and hard core Chevy guys but everyone else will look elsewhere for more inovative better looking product.

I wouldn't bet on it. If I were gambling my own money I would be *much* more inclined to bet that Ram continues to narrow the gap with Chevy vs. Chevy gaining on Ford.

Also @ AllAmerican. It is fine that you like GM's products, but you do nobody a disservice by lying about GM paying back all of the cash it received while being bailed out. The US taxpayer has not and never will be made whole from the government's bailout of GM.

Its all good news for GM, Dodge,and Ford and us if they sell more.
I like the looks of all of them, but still will be buying a new Silverado. The one in the photo is beautiful. And now with the redesign of the doors I will not have pine needles getting caught in the weather strip on the top. That is worth trading for me.
My 07 Silverado has just a 4 speed and drives and gets just as good mpg as the 6 speeds. I think people just think they need all those gears and tech for something to brag about.

About the 8 speed transmission: GM and Ford are co-developing a 10 speed auto for cars, and I think that given how GM likes to spread the same transmission around its fleet, they will likely re-lease a stronger version of the 10 speed for trucks. But, that transmission comes in 2015 for cars. Why put out an 8 speed now when a 10 speed is in the works?

In other news, apparently Ford and GM aren't worried about that dog huntin. Because 10 gears in an auto? Its gonna hunt.

The science of the added gears makes sense, @Peter, by keeping the engine from winding up as tightly when accelerating casually and keeping the engine near the peak of the torque curve when accelerating strongly. These added shifts do work to improve fuel mileage. Fewer gears means much wider shift points that alternate from peak horsepower to peak torque and back. While an engine may redline at, say 6500 RPM, torque has fallen off and your rate of acceleration has dropped, even though you're now at peak horsepower. When you upshift to the next gear, your engine RPM drops by as much as 2K and seriously loads the engine again. Since Continuously Variable Transmissions as yet simply can't handle the stresses, adding more shift points helps keep the engine closer to the torque/horsepower balance points and effectively eliminates the sudden, drastic load changes.

Don't get me wrong; my '90 F-150 gives me just shy of 20mpg at highway speed--unloaded, but still wants to hunt when a steep grade starts loading the engine. More shift points means no more hunting--once the ECM finalizes its programming for your driving style.

Rosevear's analysis isn't particularly groundbreaking. The Silverado/Sierra twins are better trucks than their predecessors, and will no doubt sell better and make more money on a per-unit basis than the trucks they replace. Will they outsell the F-Series? Only time will tell.

As for the success of Cadillac being a proxy for the overall direction of GM as a company, Rosevear is just pointing something out that has been going on for years. Since the first CTS Cadillac has been steadily improving, but it's really only recently that sales (and the general media) have reflected the improvement. But at the same time, he is being insular in his analysis, basing his opinion that GM is a relatively safe investment on the company's position in the North American market. Europe is a disaster right now, and the Chinese market is both slowing down in growth and increasing in competition.

The North Koreans could attack as well :)

GM builds trucks that will last longer then any Ford or Ram pickup. That is a proven fact and GM trucks cost less to own because they last longer. With three new engines coming out in their new pickups, Ford and Ram has a lot of catching up to match what GM has to offer. There is more to come from GM in the next year concerning their truck line and it will only get better for GM truck owners.

@philly guy Hope you enjoy reading this:

GM, Chrysler and even Ford borrowed money so it is what it is!!!

Motley Fool is correct. Fool. Cadillac is doing well because of the beautiful designs they've been putting out. I'd hardly call the new Chevrolet Silverado beautiful. It looks like an MCE that should have come out in 2010. Same with the GM truck. I'm not saying the SIlverado isn't nice because it's far nicer than the GMT-900 junker. Still however it doesn't have that wow factor. They didn't clean up the sides which was a huge gripe on the 900's. They did fix the front bumper though. I noticed as well the High Country shots didn't have rear wheel liners which is awful. There's no Limited High Country for the non-cowboy Chevrolet guys like Dodge has with their Longhorn or Ford has with their Platinum. The Silverado has GM Terrain bulges which is kind of a rip off design cue. I've seen no rust protection wheel lips on the Silverado which is a huge negative for a supposed work truck. The front end looks like it hit a brick wall head on. There's just too many issues on the Chevrolet to be a big seller to anyone but the loyalists to which there are fewer and fewer each year. Even the interior looks many years outdated. Sure it's nicer than what they have now but that's hardly saying much. It doesn't compare to the Atlas and what happens when Dodge does a new model for 2015? Chevrolet and GM needed to go above and beyond for their new models yet IMO all they did was catch up to the current Ford and Dodge trucks which are getting stale.

"GM engineers and management navigate out of the company's ties to the federal government and into direct head-to-head competition with arch-rival Ford."

-Note to John Rosevear, GM is not Ford's arch rival. Chevrolet is you idiot. Most people don't even know what or who a GM is. And Cadillac has nothing to do with trucks. What a moron.

AllAmerican: yes, Ford also borrowed money, but that money was borrowed under a fuel-efficient vehicle program which also lent money to Nissan, Fisker, and Tesla(among others).

Further, a significant portion of the debt GM owed to the government was converted into shares of stock, stock upon which the government stands to lose at least $12 billion(and a loss on which I think GM should be FORCED to make good).

I believe that the government has no business making loans to any company. That being said, comparing loans for fuel-efficient vehicles to an outright bailout of a failing corporation(and then eating a large part of the loan in the form of a stock loss) is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Yes just ignore the whole new fleet of vans, and the next generation of pickups around the corner and the new best selling car in the world and ignore everything from those other guys that just came out with an 8 speed trans.

Doesn't GM already outsell Ford? This seems irrelavant to me and how is this random invester guy? Must be a slow news day.

"I'd hardly call the new Chevrolet Silverado beautiful. It looks like an MCE that should have come out in 2010. "

FordTrucks1: You are most likely correct. GM halted all development of its next-generation full-size truck in the summer of 2008 because it needed to save cash. The truck was on ice for well over a year because of the bankruptcy filing. GM did restart development in either late 2009 or early 2010, but by then it was too late to do a clean-sheet redesign, get approvals, and start retooling the plants to meet a 2013 production deadline. The design is finalized roughly two years before production starts so that tooling can be ordered and suppliers lined up.

@allamerican, perhaps you should read the story. The rest was converted into shares so until they are cashed in they havent been repaid because they could lose value.

I agree as was also stated that Ram closing on GM is more likely than GM closing in on ford.

The GM twins are nothing to be excited about they have merely caught up. Fords due in 15 and Ram in 16 for new trucks that will be light years ahead of the GM twins again.

GM needs to quit dinking around with two trucks. Pour all of their resources for development and marketing into one single truck line and go with it. Whether the GM trucks or the Chevrolet trucks. It really doesn't matter at this point. They are so far behind they need a Hail Mary point in which truck they choose to run with. All this company does is waste money on things that aren't needed. If motley fool thinks this is a good investment strategy, it's a goofy as the 80's hair bands it's named after. It's not a sound investment at all.

What's a GM pickup?? Is that a GM Sierra? Or is that a Chevrolet Silverado? I'm confused. I didn't even know they were the same. This is just stupid!

At the NY Auto the Chevy truck presentation was pretty bad.

One lonely GM guy was up on a stage with a 2014 Silverado and nobody was even looking at it. It didn't look so special. One guest eventually made his way over and the spokesperson had to chase him around before he left to tell him, "It is a new platform!"

The average person could not tell the 2014 Silverado was a new truck. At first I had to look at the window stickers of the 2013's to find out what year ther other trucks were. It is not obvious which are the new trucks at first.

The 2014 Sierra was on the other side with nobody around. One guest was sitting down in front with his back to it. Got no attention whatsoever and I was there 3 hours.

Across the way was the Atlas F-150 and about 10 people taking it in which grew to about 50. They had two presenters giving their speech on it.

People really liked the 2013 Platinum F-350, too.

Ford totally stole GM's thunder. Ford has nothing to worry about for awhile.

As for Ram, more people were checking out the Ram presentaiton than the GM which was like a ghost town. Not a good sign for GM.

I guess this is what happens when you get bailed out and government owned. You just start to suck at everything. GM should have made the 2014 Silverado and Sierra displays attention getting and interesting, but just put out a loser truck and display.

Doesn't GM already outsell Ford?

@Rick, barely. And that's with all of their so called brands (trim levels). Not even real companies anymore like the old days. Chevrolet sure as hell doesn't outsell Ford, not even close. Ford keeps it real and Americans recognize that and support them for it. Chevrolet on the other hand is a BS fake trim level of a GovtMotors platform now. As an ex Chevrolet supporter, I hate that company now. The day Chevrolet dumps or can get out of evil GM is the day I'll actually care about Chevy again. Until then, screw all of them.

@everyone who disses that the GM Twins, Ram's twin is the Sterling thing they have going and Ford's Twins is the Failed Lincoln Mark Lt and the Failed Lincoln Blackwood.

We'll just have to see the numbers at the end of the day, General Motors will be once more on top!!!

I think I would like the new Silverado better if it had rounded wheel wells and a grill/bumper that wasn't so big and flat looking. The interior is just...OK.

I like what Ram is doing and am going to stick with it. (at least wanted to give the Chevy a look though)

As has been noted a million times around the world wide net, Chevrolet trucks went downhill in 1988 when they lost their SFA. That was the beginning of the end for All Chevrolet HD's. Ford came out with the Super Duty, Ram had a SFA in their 1500's, it was over for Chevy. However they had one hell of a kick ass 1500 all the way from 1988 until 1998. What a gorgeous truck! One I owned and was proud of. Was it a 1967-72? No. It was however the next best thing! It was Chevrolet's last beautiful and sturdy built truck. After that, Chevrolet's got cheap and were plagued with poor looks, rusty bodies and cheap Fisher Price interiors. Those traits define Chevrolet until this very day. Ugly body designs, poor interiors, no off road capabilities, no high end luxury. Chevrolet in my book has been completely dismantled by GM. I really don't know why GM keeps Chevrolet open if this is what they wanted to do to them all along.

I can see three distinctly different philosophies to pickups in future pickup design by the manufacturers.

1. Ram - inventive and creative;

2. GM - conservative, and

3. Ford - mainstream.

The GM philosophy has worked in the past and this approach is working for Toyota at the moment. Will it suffice in 5-10 years when the rules are much different.

The biggest question for me is the major changes required for future pickups has only just started.

Which manufacturer has choosen the best path?

@AllAmerican, Real trucks don't have twins. The others learned the hard way, so must you.

@FordTrucks: You can't take something as subjective and visual appeal and claim that one opinion represents all buyers. As a simple example, I, for one, and not a fan of the shape of the new Cadillacs but have found the newer Lincolns more appealing as they are more curvy and less edgy. Yet, I can't stand the hideous, over-pronounced grill on the majority of the Ford trucks excepting only those whose outer frame is painted the same color as the body (which means one, single model that carries among the highest of prices in the Ford truck line). You may not like the Chevy/GM looks, but others do; and from those who don't, then they may appreciate the RAM or some other brand more. When it comes to personal opinions, everybody has one and not everybody agrees that they like the same things.

If it came around to a circumstance that I would NEED to buy a new pickup truck and I had a choice of the 2014 models of Ford, GMC, Chevy or RAM, it would be a tight match between the RAM and the GMC across the board. They both have looks I can live with and in nearly every other way they are approximately equal.

I have no need for "best in class towing", though I admit decent towing capability may be an advantage for a one- or two-shot occasion to rent a trailer and I'm certainly not going to pass over one truck because the other can carry 200# more in the bed. I'm far more concerned with cubic carrying capacity than weight where that comes in. A load that's 48" wide by 8' long that doesn't hang out four feet behind the tailgate is more important to me. That's 24 8-foot event tables on edge or any number of plywood or drywall sheets lying flat. While heavy, those 24 tables still weigh in around 500 pounds which is far less than the capacity of most 1/2-ton trucks.

"The average person could not tell the 2014 Silverado was a new truck. At first I had to look at the window stickers of the 2013's to find out what year ther other trucks were. It is not obvious which are the new trucks at first"

This is the funniest thing I've heard in a while. I had tears in my eyes from all that laughing! LMAO!
Ford Trolls are out spewing stories how Ford is light years away yet it can't outsell GM.
GM will have NO PROBLEM pulling away with their new trucks. They outsold Ford with "old" and "ugly". They will crush F with "new" and "beautiful".

This is pathetic!!!

Lol! What do you drive a GM Sierra or GM Silverado? Hahahahahahahahah

I'm just telling you how I see it. I'm not the only person who has stated it look too pretty much like the last one. They also wouldn't let you get anywhere near the interiors at the auto show so you didn't have that to go by.

Even Car & Driver agrees with me, "You may need to closely study photos of the 2014 Silverado and the 2013 model it replaces in order to identify specific cosmetic differences between the two."

Also, lots of people were drooling over the Raptor, the Limited and F-350 Platinum. People would stop and say, "Wait. I have to sit in this!" I can't imagein the same happening with a basic Silverado. GM dropped the ball on Chevy.

GM may have sold more half tons, but Ford makes more money on selling less. You'll never make it up in volume. That's why GM went bankrupt.

Correction: GM wouldn't let you get near the interiors. And again like C&D and many others have said, "You may need to closely study photos of the 2014 Silverado and the 2013 model it replaces in order to identify specific cosmetic differences between the two." It's not me. It's GM.

I am saddened that there are people like AllAmerican that still believe there is no difference between GM and Ford when it comes to the government bailout. To review, President Bush started the mischief by defying a senate vote and diverting Tarp money to both GM and Chrysler via executive order. When both GM and Chrysler filed for bankruptcy, President Obama capitalized on the government's interest by directing the proceedings. In the process he protected the UAW at the expense of bondholders.

According to CBS news, "The government spent $49.5 billion to stabilize and restructure GM and has so far recouped $28.7 billion of that." After the 2012 election GM was allowed to buy back some of their stock at a loss to the government, reducing government ownership GM to 20%, not counting the former GMAC, of which Uncle Sam still owns 74%. The total loss to taxpayers is projected to be at least 15 Billion dollars.

I've been a Chevy truck fan since 1972, but any attempt to equate GM and Ford because Ford took advantage of a relatively miniscule existing incentive program is nothing less than willful ignorance. There's good reason they call it Government Motors.

LMAO! Ignore anything Dand and Frank say. They hate on everything GM does just like Mark Williams said they do in that video awhile ago. GM will crush F and the trolls with "new" and "beautiful"!

LOLOLOL!!! SCREW GOVT MOTORS!!! And I Dig Old Chevrolets!! They're alright by ME. I did NOT however approve of GovtMoCo Trucks! I did NOT however approve of bu'ICK' nor Daewoo, nor Opel and Holden! Chevrolet Motor Corp = Cool! No problem by me. SCREW the rest of them! And IF Chevrolet has to go down with the sinking ship known as Govt Motors, so Be It!! -Screw GM. Chevrolet rocks, GM sucks.

I dont want a 8 speed tranny....thats just a sophiscated tranny that is being done to get through fuel economy regs...

4 speed auto works just fine......I perfer not having the wandering tranny seaching for gear each lauch.....

what? general motors is going to start making trucks!!! this is breaking news!!! i wonder why the decided to wait till 2014 to start making trucks. they have made some cool cars over the years and i always wondered why they have never built a truck. lets hope its a good one and not just another luv!!!


Dave and myself say it like it is. Trolls can't handle the truth.

Thank GOD Hemi V8 is gone.

Could is a very big word!

Gotta laugh when you see these stories out there about writers saying the new GMs gets up to three more MPG then a 8 speed Hemi, too bad the writer doesn't have any idea that it's only 1 mpg then the Ram 8 speed in 4x4 form, and that's with the GMs having less power, and needing to be revved up higher to make their power.

The new 4x2 Hemi 8 speed will probably be one mpg less then the 5.3 4x2, and considering you get more power, that's fine, as the GMs will probably downshift at the slightest incline, and they need as low as 3.08 gears to get that mileage.

@Peter: If you drive your Chevy with a 4 speed I can see it getting great mileage in Kansas, the problem is when you come to a hill, it may need 2nd gear. Wow! Been there done that! (Had a 2006 Chevy 5.3 310Hp 4x4 ext cab 3.42 gears) Now you have very few choices for gears, either 3rd gear will be able to pull it, or it will need 2nd gear. So it can go from 1700 or so rpm to 4500 or so rpm on one single hill! Great if you are playing, but not real smooth to the rest who aren't. If it had more gears, maybe it would only need 3800 rpm to climb that hill? Maybe less? Like I say, been there done that with the Chevy I had and the 2010 Ram I have, which is a far heavier truck. But yet my Ram doesn't need to do near as much downshifting as that Chevy.

DWFields explanation of the gears to you is pretty much spot on, except say if your truck has a 4L80 4 speed like mine did, and you could rev to 6500 rpm and shift to second gear, now it would be 3900 rpm. The 4L80 has 2nd gear thats about a 60% of 1st gear, and 3rd is about 68% of 2nd. It is spread more with a 4L60/700R4 trans, now 2nd gear is only 53% of 1st, and 3rd gear is only 62%. Compare that to the 8 speeds 67% to as much as 80% of gears being much closer, you will see alot more smoothness, and more options, instead of revving the crud out of your engine, it maybe can use alot less gear to get up the same hill.

The 8 speed can also help it accellerate faster through having a much lower gear to get it moving.

If you ever seen the video Ford did showing the ecoboost vs a Chevy 5.3 and a Ram 5.7, pulling a 9000 pound trailer up Davis Dam road, and the Chevy even though it had less axle gear, and less torque, almost pulled the trailer to 60 faster then the Ram. The reason why was purely gears. The Ram's 6 speed/545-RFE 5 speed (whichever they call is, same trans) had alot less starting ratio. The 8 speed makes up for that with alot more starting gear then all the others (trucks) trans have, and makes about the same final drive in first gear with a Ram 3.21 gear as a Ford with 3.73s, however, that Ford 3.73 will spin alot for rpm then that 3.21 geared 8 speed, for when you are driving 65-75 downthat freeway empty, which alot of trucks do nowadays.

I really have no problems with the looks of Silverado, Sierra, F-150, or Ram, they all look like trucks and they all appear to be competent. Whether GM survives or not remains to be seen. If it doesn't then we will have Ford as the only domestically owned vehicle manufacturer, but others will fill the void. I would like GM to survive for all the jobs at stake but I would have no problem buying from a competitor even if it is not a domestic manufacturer. As for who sells the most, that is not a major factor in what I buy. I buy what I think is the best vehicle for my needs and not what brand it is.

@Jeff S
I can really see the day when there will be one mega US owned vehicle manufacturer. At the moment my money is on Ford.

If I could go back and relive my life I think I'd invest in GM dealerships, especially those with large repair shops. I've owned many GM vehicles and every one of them spent tons more time (and my money) in repairs than did those from other automakers that I've owned. Yep, a GM repair shop is a great place to get rich.

As far as the actual chance of GM catching Ford, GM would have to continue being the "great leader of rebates and red tag sales"

People are paying far more for Fords and Rams.

I don't think GM will have as much in rebates in the new truck, lately they been trying to get rd of all the extra trucks, so they barely make anything. One salesman in my town went from Dodge to Chevy, guess he wanted to be where the rebates are and the company pushes to sell sell sell, at any cost/loss.

As for the folks that talk about an 8 speed hunting for gears: If an 8 speed needs another lower gear when driving say 45 mph on a hilly road, it uses 7th, which is a bit closer to the top gear then the GM six speed's 6th gear is to it's 5th gear, and it's 7th gear is closer to 6th, then a GM's 5th is to it's 4th gear.

They are all gonna need to downshift at some point, and the less gears you have, the bigger the change in rpms will be at part throttle. No thanks, been there, done that four speed pickup stuff, especially with less power. (cough...Chevy 5.3 Cough cough, old 4.8!)

I can say I have driven a few 8 speeds as well, and although the Ram v-6 wont win many competitions of towing vs V-8s(unless being comaired to to Ford's 3.7 and Tundra's 4.0) it is a hoot to drive on on-ramps!

The Ford camp is scared you can tell, just read the comments LOL!

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