Maintance is important..no short cut for that if you intend to keep it more than a couple of years

More reason to buy an extended warranty.

If you buy a Dodge sure is a good thing to buy!

I believe it, the dealerships around here want $100 just to hook up the scanner, and they call it a diagnostics charge; before they will even touch the vehicle. And they wonder why people get so frustrated with dealerships.

Some of the upscale options can be disaster at repair time. I've heard of $800 to replace a headlight bulb, my HID bulb cost $297 and had to remove front bumper to install. Electronic control modules can break the bank, $400 for a turn signal module rather than the old plug in flasher unit.

Yea, my owners manual says you have to remove the headlight asseemply and grill to change the bulbs which would cost about $300 at the dealer, not true all you have to do is remove two nuts from the fender liner and you have easy access through the wheel well.

The complexity of the electronic systems adds to the cost of repairs. If a sensor fails and a less skilled mechanic bases his repairs on the code reader, you'll get hit with a large bill and the problem still might be present.

Could it be the value of the federal reserve note is decreasing, at a quicker rate?
Certainly, with the billions/trillions of dollars that the banks are stealing from the treasury.

Hey Tyler, if your GM product is anything like the 2006 Chevy truck I bought new, you will need an extended warranty. Then you have to find a good dealership.

No need to get into a brand war, I would purchase an extended warranty with any vehicle I would purchase today. Regardless of what brand, the electronics in the vehicles today are a costly repair by themselves.
When I was buying my truck, the dealer could not locate the exact truck I wanted; but they had one similar on the lot. They gave me a 10 year/120,000 miles extended warranty (free) because they could not locate the exact truck I wanted. I would have purchased the extended warranty anyways, regardless if it was thrown in or not.
Better to have the extended warranty and never use it, then not have it when you need it.

Cars and trucks are getting more reliable with each generation. Go 200K miles and short of abuse or neglect, it'll may cost you an O2 sensor? A used cat?

No, it's increasing sales and complexity of Euro diesels and our domestics. Any minor problem and you won't get out of the shop for less than $1,000 to $1,300, believe me.

Business problem for Auto manufacturers:
1920's-1980's cars/trucks were worn out at 5 yrs or 60,000 mi.
Automakers sold you a new car every 4-5 years.
Today, cars/trucks can easily last 15 years or 200,000 mi.
Since cars and trucks last 3x longer than 30+ years ago, economically they need to charge 3x as much for the vehicles.
At some point there is economic disadvantage for auto manufacturers to sell extremely durable vehicles.

All this talk about extended warrantees, and head light replacement, has me thinking, has enyone ever had to replace the headlight bulb in a Chevy truck lately? well I have, and let me tell you, in the last gen, it was the easyest bulb to replace ever! I could do it in under 2 min! and the latest is while not as easy, it is still fairly easy! and the lights in my Dakota? while not so hard, it still takes tools, while in the lat Chevy, no tools needed! I have no idea about my F-150 yet! but I do know in the last gen tundra, it was a job! as bad as changing the oil&filter! in other words, not easy! and messy! I have found the Chevy trucks to be the easyest to do reg mant. on than any others! and yes, every vehicle I buy, (including motorcycles) I get an extended warratee! for at least 3yrs, and 5 if poss! expecialy on Motorcycles! if you guys have never looked into the prices of bike parts, you would be shocked! as a aftermarket exhuast on my Sportster cost over $800!!!! and can go over 1K! easy! and that is only 2 cyl! some of the imports with 4-6cyl can cost over 1.6K! on the BMW 6cyl the exhuast can cost OVER 2K!! never mind the brakes and tires! YOU WOULD BE SHOCKED!!!! trucka are relatively speeking cheep to fix, compared to motorcycles!

@GeorgeC...you are spot on, sir! Is there anything we need that isn't increasing in price? When the medium of exchange is monopoly money, tradesmen and grocers want more dollars for their products. Surprised?

Its deffinatly worth it to buy a code reader. This way your not paying the dealer or a shop $100 plus just to tell you what is wrong. You can know that ahead of time and tell them what you want replaced.

Many contractors have been switching their trucks to gas trucks lately due to the high upfront cost of diesel engines, reliability concerns and the ongoing hassle of maintaining the added emissions equipment. Contractors are thinking twice about spending so much on a diesel engine they may not really need and when repair costs are on the rise. Gas trucks today make a heck of a lot of sense for lowering repair costs.

I always do my own basic maintenance. Anything substantial goes to the more reasonably priced independent mechanic.

The chinesification of vehicle parts is only beginning but I don't hold too much trust for extended warranties. Dealers will try to find a way to screw you even under standard warranties.

@sandman4X4
I'll agree that Gm's are very easy to fix those minor things on on my GMT800 i have changed front DRL and the rear 3rd break light i have changed out the tail lights on my f150 fairly easily as well, and if my suburban hadent had repeat front diff issues id still be driving it i took it to 100k and sold it to some people who are still driving it. My Raptor is at 52k on the odometer and other than the tunrsignal/tailight combo it has not had an issues caused my design flaw, still some lingering issues from an accident that i was involvedin in august, but i can tell that but try to tell my inssurance company.

Most engines and drivetrains will last 200k + if properly maintained. Electronics and sensors can be problematic and much harder to diagnose. Sometimes it is not worth fixing when a vehicle gets a lot of age and mileage on it. As for brands, it is erroneous to assume that one brand is better than another, they all use components from the same sources except engines and drivetrains but even then if it is a manual transmission it can be outsourced. Today's electronics in most vehicles make repair costs much higher. Yes vehicles can run much longer but when you have problems it is much harder and expensive to diagnose.

We have the same issues here in Australia.

I'm finding the biggest hurdle for any maintenance is the ability of any repair business to fault find and the quality of work.

Over the past 20-30 years what I would term the trade skills of mechanics overall has declined.

The guys are being trained to remove a broken item and replace with a new one. The art of repair, remove and re-install is disappearing.

I have noticed when I'm in countries like Malaysia they still try and repair.

Maybe is come down to labour costs. Just cheaper to throw in the trash.

@Big Al from Oz--I have had like experiences. I hate to throw anything away that I feel can be fixed, but as you said it can be cheaper to throw it away and replace it. I have had quite a few cars that I have run past their average life expectancy, keeping them in tip top shape, but as they get older things such as wiring harnesses, electric motors, sensors, on board computers, and like can go out even when the body, interior, engine, and transmission are in relatively good shape.

I had a Mercury Lynx once that my brother gave me, and before it was 10 years old the wiring harness had to be replaced. My mechanic tried to get a new one from Ford and Mercury but it had been discontinued. I paid for him to piece together a new harness from junk yard harnesses which was more expensive than a new one. Shortly after that the manual transmission went out and then I discovered the bottom of the firewall had bad rust making the car unsafe. I would not sell the car to anyone so I traded it in. The car looked good and it had less than year old Michelin tires on it which were worth more than the car. That was a lesson learned along with a couple of other cars that I kept running for a long time. Sometimes you just need to know when to not pour anymore money into a vehicle and cut your losses.

@Big Al from Oz--It is hard to find a mechanic that is good at diagnosing problems. Many mechanics are trained just to replace parts. You are correct some of the skills have gone down hill. That is not to say there are not any good mechanics, they are just much harder to find. Many years ago many repair people were skilled craftsmen as well. I had a watch repairman in Houston many years ago that not only repaired watches but could make them. I also worked with a seamstress many years ago that could make a man's suit or tuxedo by hand. Years ago in home construction you had actual carpenters that could build cabinets and do other carpentry work. Those skills are rare and for the most part homes today have preassembled walls and components and are merely assembled at the site (these are stick built homes and not factory homes). The preassembled walls have more uniformity and better quality control, but the actual building of the homes require less skill. Possibly much of that is due to so few of the workers today have those skills.

There are code readers available for your smart phone, and most sensors are easy to replace.

And can I just say how odd it is that the oxygen sensor in the intake is easier to replace than a headlight bulb?

@Big Al

The cost to repair some componets is the same as the labor to repair the vehicle so when you manage a vehicle fleet time is money you can order a new part take the old one off and away you go, the vehicle is back in service. we had a cherry picker that kept eating front diffs when the 4x4 was engaged after lots of down time and repair costs i told my guys to yank the front drive shaft, and disable the transfercase shift function problem solved. The only rhings that would get really worked on where the 6.0 fords and internationals everything else you spawed the part and where good to go.

I do agree that the art of repair is being lost. Skilled craftsmen are a dying breed. Try to find a shoemaker or even a barber. As Jeff S has pointed out, seemstresses and skilled carpenters are rare too.
Wages do hurt the cost of repair versus replacement. Why pay a guy a 100 dollars/hour when you can get a disposable item for 25. I'd rather have my vehicle written off in a moderate crash than have a bodyshop try to make it work seemlessly again.
Extended warranties are no different than auto insurance.

@carilloskis
I agree with you.

The game I'm in now the guys used to remove and repair the defective component if possible.

Over the past 20 years it has come down to remove, send to the contractor/throwaway (sometimes overseas) and replace with a serviceable component.

I think the initial costs of most car parts is minimal and the price we pay for a replacement has more to do with logistics, labour, (profit margin) etc.

How much would a pickup cost if you went down to the local dealer and ordered all of the parts in and built it yourself let alone having a mechanic build it for you.

It wouldn't surprised me if a base model pickup would cost $200 000.

@Lou
The building and construction game is becoming reliant on systems and modular construction techniques.

This trend started after WWII ie 8x4 sheet of plywood etc.

Aviation and the automotive industry is the same. Soon it will not matter who manufacturers what as standardisation sets in deeper. Just like spark plug, light globes.

Look at stationary engines (electric motors incl), they have been interchangable for decades ie shaft size/type and dimensions including mounting.

Wouldn't it be great if you could go to a chassis supplier order a pickup then choose the powertrain, just like trucks, aviation, shipping etc.

Small motor vehicles is one of the few odd ones out here.

Big Al from Oz,
If you have an older Vehicle a "repairer "will say "the OEM part is around but they charge like wounded bulls for a part, would you like a cheaper aftermarket part?"

I don't mind replacing a part that is either close to needing replacing or could cause potential problems, but it is bad when you keep replacing parts and the problem is not fixed.

@Big Al--don't misunderstand me, I think there are benefits to standardization, one being quality control and interchangeablity along with lowering costs and making a product more affordable. Lou got my point that the actual craftsmanship and skill to do something beside assemble something is rapidly disappearing. There are pros and cons about this standardization, it would be nice to get a platform and choose your own drivetrain. Even better would be go to the dealer choose out the color and trim level you want in a car or truck and have it ordered online from the factory and have it delivered within a week. I don't know if that will happen but it always amazed me the amount of capital the dealers have invested in cars and trucks waiting for them to be sold to recover any of their money. I realize that dealers borrow money to finance their inventory but that is a lot of debt tied up in inventory. Yes the manfacturers want to keep the lines operating but it seems so inefficient to stockpile high priced inventory and wait for it to sell. I know others will disagree with me but that is tying up a lot of capital for a high dollar items. That is just my thought for the day.

@Lou--I actually have a barber that uses a straight edge razor on the neck as a final touch after the hair cut. A nice touch and another skill that has died with disposable razors. I have always wanted a barber shop shave with warm shaving lather and a straight edge razor with the barber stropping the blade before the shave. I guess that is a dream but I enjoying imagining it.

@JeffS - there used to be only one barber in town that did it. I had the straight razor shave a few times. It was very relaxing - hot face towels, old fashioned shaving cream and a steady handed barber. The barber shop I went to had always been there. I remember my dad taking me and my brother to the same shop. There were different owners over the years but it felt very comfortable and familiar. I was very upset when I went there one day for a haircut and found that they had closed up shop and no one had taken over the business. All of that history in that old place gone.

@Lou--That is ashame, but then you got to experience it. It is good to have all the technology and the safety and reliability of our cars and trucks but some of pleasantries of the past are missed. I will always remember driving my grandfather around in his 63 IH pickup and stopping in all the little towns to go in the little grocery stores, general stores, farm supply stores, and going to the Allis Chalmers dealership to pick up parts for the combine, haybailer, or one of his tractors. I would go with him when I was young to the drug store where they had a lunch counter and would make malts, shakes, or coke floats. Maybe that is one reason beside function why I like to drive a pickup. A hot towel on your face and a shave with a straight razor by a barber is a nice memory.

Faulty O2 sensors... yeah what a moneymaker those are.
They keep putting more and more of those too. Effen basterdz.

I do everything myself--I don't care if it is simply oil changes or brakes to clutch jobs or engine swaps.

I have taken a vehicle to a mechanic (not under warranty) twice in 17 years--one was a motorcycle, the other my old Ford truck.

I was too busy to adjust the valves on my bike, and I didn't want to have to buy/wait to buy shims, so I took it to a shop. I asked them to replace the valve cover gasket too since it leaked. They said that the valves were all in spec (did they even check?). Also, they didn't change the gasket--cause it looked ok. Finally, I made it one block and the bike died--they failed to properly attached the fuel line back to the fuel rail.

On my Ford, it was leaving me stranded constantly with an intermittent problem that I was having a tough time figuring out. I took it to a mechanic that charged me for labor and list price for a control module--cutting to the chase, it didn't fix anything.

I too hate throwing parts at a rig and replacing potentially good ones, but it is way cheaper doing that myself than taking it to a shop full of jokers, paying out the nose, and winding up with nothing fixed. As a side benefit, it is fun to learn.

Since I'm too old to tool and wrench on my rides now, I have resolved to trade each one of them for a new one before the warranty expires.

Let potential future breakdowns be someone else's worry and expense.

@Jeff S
I'm with you on craftsman. The problem now in most modern societies is everyone wants, including big paychecks.

Someone has to pay the craftsman.

Quick is cheap.

I'm not American bashing, but it started there with mass production and consumerism. I must admit I do like certain aspects of consumerism as well.

We might get a balance one day, when we stop the throwaway society. Recycling is a start.

Look at what we have built as societies. Our grandchildren and great grandchildern will create a different society, just like we have done, but hopefully better.

@Big Al--You are correct. My handyman is a very skilled carpenter and has more business than he can handle. He tried to teach his 23 year old son the business so that he could take it over from him. My handyman paid for his son's college tuition but the son dropped out. The son spend his time texting his friends and girl friends and was more interested in getting paid to hang around. I am not saying all youth are this way but many have a strong sense of entitlement. Cal, my handyman has more business than he can handle and makes more than a decent living, but he is so busy that it usually takes him a long time to start and finish a job (he is a perfectionist and takes the time to do it right). I would say that a thousand years from now a future generation will think that maybe we had so much garbage that we got buried by it, but then recently I am more inclined to believe we ship it to China and they ship it back to us as new disposable products.

@Highdesertcat--I feel your pain, at 61 it is much harder for me to crawl under and around a vehicle. Sometimes I wish that I could have new parts--I will take a new back and new knees. Unless the vehicle is a classic or it has a very high sentimental value you can reach a point of diminishing returns on any vehicle regardless of brand. Oxygen sensors and other electrical components after a while go bad and can constantly nickel and dime you.

@Dav--I have had similar experiences and sometimes I wonder if I am the mechanic's first customer and that they are learning on me. Many shops get in a rush and want to push the work out. Not as many mechanics are as skilled at diagnosing problems as they use to be. Sometimes you just have to take the time and patience to do things right. I don't mind doing a preemptive repair but I want what is wrong to be fixed and also I want to know how much it is going to cost, especially if the vehicle has some years and mileage on it, so I can make a rational and financially sound decision as to the worth of either fixing or replacing that vehicle.

Jeff S. , it gets worse with age, no matter how active you try to be.

I work out every day, walk, get plenty of exercise, get on top of the house with a ladder, but the joints just won't cooperate. Bending, stooping, squatting, stretching are all equally painful.

At 67 I am twice as bad off as I was at age 61. And because I help a lot of people older than I am with their chores they can't do by themselves, I know what's in store for us as we age.

So back in 2008 I resolved that we would just trade for a new vehicle before the warranty expired. I bought a new truck in Jan 2011, and a new 2012 SUV in Nov 2011.

Some people will tell us that you're sure to lose money doing business that way. To them I say it's only money, and I've never seen a hearse with a U-Haul trailer behind it.

I'd rather have the peace of mind for me and mine. It's going to cost me money either way I go. The big upside is that I get to drive a brand new vehicle every 3-5 years.

@Highdesertcat--I see your point. I remember when my parents went through this, and now I have become like them. I have been downsizing and plan on further downsizing when I retire and get into a lower maintenace condo or lower maintenance house. When you are young want the large house with the big yard and all the toys, but then when you get older you want less to take care of and less responsibility.

@Highdesertcat--I see your point. I remember when my parents reached their 60s, now I have become like them. I too have never seen a U-haul trailer behind a hearse. I have been trying to simplify my life before I retire. When you are young you want all the material things-a nicer car and truck, bigger house and yard, more toys, and etc and then one day you get older and you want to not put up with all the maintenance headaces and keeping track of everything. You want a comfortable home, enough heat and air, and decent reliable vehicle, and enough money to live reasonably comfortable on.

This is why the low cost of ownership which GM trucks rate the highest in that category is so important!

Greg, I have no doubt that GM trucks are much better today than they ever were when I owned them, but their mediocrity in the past has lost them all but the most ardent fanboys.

IMO, and based on all the trucks I have owned, the 2011 Tundra 5.7 is the best truck I have ever owned, albeit also the costliest truck.

Most people buy a Ford because it is a decent truck for a reasonable amount of money. It is the de-facto standard for pickup trucks.

But those who can afford it, choose a Tundra 5.7 because it does everything the best-selling Ford trucks can do, except that the Tundra does it with more finesse, style, elegance, smoothness and sophistication than Ford can ever hope to achieve.

I'm not selling anything here but I've owned them all and the 2007 Tundra set the standard for all the trucks we drive today. Everybody wanted to compare themselves to Tundra in 2007. None of them came close.

There are people who prefer the GM pushrod engines of the fifties, but with excellent products like the engines and transmissions from Ford and RAM these days, GM is a hard sell except to the ardent fans.

Imagine a Silverado with a 5.7 (350) all-aluminum, 32- valve, DOHC, V8 , that uses the Northstar architecture, coupled to an-eight-speed automatic, with huge disc brakes at every corner.

There's a reason why Ford trucks are the best sellers, just like there is a reason why Tundra owners are so loyal. Most Tundra owners have commented that they haven't had ANY repairs or warranty work done, and that is another excellent reason for buying a problem-free Tundra.

mecanics are ripoffs, never trust them, unless you know them, all they want is big money, and dont really care.

@Highdesertcat--With the exception of you and a few others, most Toyota owners are repeat buyers who will not even look at anything else. I do not doubt what you are saying about Toyota Tundra, but most will buy anything with a Toyota label. I would agree with what you have said about GM trucks but then again truck owners for the most part are the most loyal to their brand, more so than most car buyers. I am probably one of the few on this site that will look at other brands and consider them. Yes positive experience with a product determines repeat business but I know people that will buy Toyota products without looking at comparable products made my Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Ford, and others. I even know some loyal Toyota owners that will not even test drive a particular car they will just buy it.

Jeff, speaking only for myself, I have absolutely NO brand loyalty but, instead, I choose to buy the best truck on the market at the time I shop.

I have owned many, many used trucks over the decades, but have only bought three brand new ones in my life; a 1988 Silverado 350, a 2006 F150 XLT 5.4, and a 2011 Tundra 5.7 SR5 DC LB.

When I go shopping in Nov/Dec 2015 for a 2016 truck I will diligently look at what's out there and if Tundra downsizes to a 4.6 as the largest V8, as rumored, I'll have to buy a 3/4-ton Ford with the biggest gasoline-V8 available at that time.

Pushrod GM engines in a half-ton are pretty outdated to me, but in a 3/4-ton or heavier, I think there is a place for them. Having driven an Ecoboost 4-dr 4X4 F150 ($42K) I was impressed, but I remain a V8 kind of man.

That said, and looking back at all the trucks I have owned in 67 years of living on this planet, including the ones owned by my Dad, I will say that MY Tundra has been the best handling, smoothest riding, most solid half-ton truck I have ever owned. That goes a long way for me -- not like when I switched from GM to Ford in 2006.

So that doesn't mean that someone else can't make a better truck nowadays. Look at what happened to truckdom once the 2007 Tundra appeared on the scene. Mad scramble by Ford, GM and RAM to put 6-speed autos, better engines and better brakes on their half-ton trucks.

We as buyers came out ahead, all because Toyota had the better idea with the Tundra back in 2007. Unless someone has actually lived with that all-aluminum, 32-valve, DOHC, 5.7 V8 and did some traveling with it, I don't think that they have a true appreciation at how good life really is.

That's why critics of the Tundra carry no weight with actual owners of the current Tundra.

@Highdesertcat--Your reasons are valid and you are one of the few that look at all available brands just as I do. I know lots of people,especially women, who will not buy anything else but Toyota--They won't look at anything else. I do understand why many women feel that way if they are not as knowledgeable about cars just as many guys that really are not as well. I think there has been a drastic improvement in all the cars and trucks and brands like Hyundai are every bit as good as many Japanese brands. I find the Hyundai Elantra and Sonota more attractive on the outside and offer a bet value than the Toyota Corolla and Camry. Also many Toyotas models such as Corolla are outdated and not as nicely finished as much of the competition. I am not saying they are not good vehicles, I am saying many Toyota models have not kept up with the competition. I do find it not very wise to buy something like a car or truck and not even test drive it. A friend of mine was looking at late model Corollas and many of the individuals would not let him test drive the cars because they wanted to keep the mileage down. They told him he could drive it when he bought it. Apparently their are loyal Toyota owners that would buy without a test drive.

Jeff S, we own a 2011 Elantra that we bought for our grand daughter and it has been a great car for her without ANY problems since we bought it in May 2011.

The only thing I could possibly complain about is the OEM Kumho tires. My grand daughter wore them out in less than 24K, high-speed commuting on US70 to college in Las Cruces, NM, 4 days a week.

I had Discount Tire in Las Cruces put four Pirellis on the Elantra and all's well. Pirelli clearly is the better tire.

As long as Toyota products sell as well as they do, specifically the Corolla, the Tacoma and the Camry, there's no incentive for Toyota to do any upgrades on them.

Once people start to buy Toyota, Honda and Nissan, they rarely, if ever, go back to buying anything from Ford or GM. And Chrysler is not a domestic player anymore since it is owned by Fiat of Italy.

The confidence that Toyota, Honda, and now Nissan dealerships have in their products brings out a rarely seen phenomenon of an attitude where a dealership will discourage someone from test-driving one of their products, except to close the deal.

The same thing happened to a couple I know, in their seventies, who looked at a Highlander at a nearby dealership. Long story short, they ended up buying a 2012 Honda Pilot AWD at a different dealership after deciding they were very interested in the Honda Pilot.

What brought that on was a sleight of hand on the part of the buyer when, after he asked the salesman how much the dealership needed to sell the Honda Pilot for, upon receiving the price he said he'd pass on the deal.

So, all of a sudden the salesmanager comes out on the floor and asks what was wrong with the price and my friend said that there was nothing wrong with the price but that he didn't want to pay that amount for that vehicle.

At that point the salesmanager suggested that maybe AFTER my friend and his wife had taken the Pilot for an extensive test drive, they might think differently.

So they took it for a nice long test drive, just the two of them. They still didn't buy from that particular dealership but went to El Paso, TX, instead and bought a Honda Pilot there, for a lower price, at another Honda dealership.

Truck repair costs are on the rise, so let's show a picture of a Jersey Shore guy probing a Honda V6.

Lol, Highdesertcat is so insistant that Tundra's have all this finese. Too bad they didn't stop worth a crup in the 30K shootout when 1,000 pounds was added to the bed, and, the autocross times sucked! Of course even though hemi lol will always tell us about those overated epa mileage of the hemi, or whatever other brand he has issues with, wouldn't you know it, that Tundra was dead last in the mileage!

Climbed that hill and drag raced good, of course it did, it had a gear advantage.

Gas mileage? Oh wait, those 5.7 Tundra owners dont care! LOL!

LOL, you said it could do anything a Ford could? LOL!

Why don't you compare a modern day Ford/Ram to a Tundra, not your neighbors/sons 10-15 year old truck?

BTW, Tundras have brake issues, the rotors generally don't last. So much for those big brakes!

@TRX-4 Tom --I am not going to fault anyone on their truck preferences. If highdesertcat is happy with the Tundra and it has given him good service then what more can anyone ask for. I like my 99 S-10 and 2008 Isuzu crewcab a lot and both have given me my money's worth in reliable service. In all honesty most of today's cars and trucks are much more dependable and better overall than those of the past. I was very impressed with the Chrysler 200 and Jeep Grand Cherokee that I rented last year.

@Highdesertcat--We have been looking at compact to midsize crossovers and my wife likes the CRV the best because it is easier for her to get in and out of. She is 5'2" and is afraid she will fall when she gets out even with running boards. After going to the auto expo in Cincinnati I prefer the CRV to most of the others it is nicer finished and less than the new Toyota Rav4 and the new Buick Encore. I looked at the Ridgeline as well and it had more head and leg room than the comparable crewcab Tacoma with a shortbed. The Tacoma had less leg and head room and for a little less you can get a Ridgeline with heated leather seats. I know most truck guys don't like Ridgeline but I would seriously consider one for myself. GM and Ford have improved much over what they use to be as has Chrysler, Hyundai, and Kia. My wife had a 77 Accord hatchback many years ago that she drove for over 17 years. After driving many models of Toyotas I prefer Hondas, much less hard plastics on the inside and you get a nicer vehicle for the money to a comparable Toyota. This is not to say I would never buy a Toyota but they are like many of the older GMs lots of hard plastics. I did like the new Avalon, a very nice car inside and outside. Toyota did a beautiful job on the restyle.