Ford: Repair Shops Certification Recommended to Fix 2015 F-150

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By Kelsey Mays, Cars.com

In case you haven't heard, Ford's redesigned 2015 F-150 will have aluminum body panels — part of what helps save the light-duty pickup truck up to 700 pounds (crew cab versus crew cab) compared to its steel-bodied predecessor. The results should be a boon for fuel economy, but we noted Jan. 21 that concerns persist for insurance and repair costs.

2015 Ford F-150: Everything You Need to Know

Now Ford is recommending that repair shops get the proper certification to fix its upcoming aluminum-bodied truck. The Detroit News reports the Dearborn, Mich., automaker suggested to its dealers at the just-concluded 2014 National Automobile Dealers Association conference that, in order to best serve their customers, their repair shops should get certification to fix the half-ton pickup truck. According to the article, certification could cost between $30,000 to $50,000 for tooling upgrades, but Ford will chip in $10,000. We should note that Ford does not require the certification, nor does it withhold any parts, training or repair information if a dealership or repair facility chooses not to participate in the program. 

What does that mean to potential shoppers for the new F-150? The F-Series is far and away Ford's best-selling model, and Ford expects most dealers to be certified in order to promote the fact to their customers. Ford told the newspaper that up to 80 percent of repair work on its current lineup is done at independent shops, not Ford dealers. The certification process could move more of that business back to the automaker's dealers for the F-150 — but that will depend on how many of them decide to certify and how truck buyers respond to the new pickup. 

The 2015 Ford F-150 goes on sale late this year.

(Editor's Note: This story has been modified on 1/29/13 to more accurately reflect the issues surrounding the Ford certification program regarding aluminum body repairs.)

 

1 Saving Weight II (2)

 

11 Detroit Auto Show

Comments

@Beebe,
How many aluminum rims have I seen with corrosion problems?
A lot. You've never seen bubbles on Al rims? And when you poke at it, white powder falls out of it?

My 01 Monte Carlo had a all aluminum engine mount frame and front suspension. It turned white in couple of years. Still looked just fine to me but it oxidized. Most of you look at trailers and such and see no "rust" and say, hey, they all look just fine, see. You don't realize they're all slowly corroding away it just doesn't look drastic because there is no paint to create that effect.
F150 will be protected by paint from it . But if contamination occurs, paint defects, etc, you'll see corrosion. No question.

I find this move to aluminum very exciting. It sounds like it would be a good idea for toyo to swtich to it since their steel bodies are so soft and get dented with the slightest of ease. Once they oxidize they become one of the hardest substances known?! Sign me up!

@Gregory J. @TRX 4 TOM and the rest

I don't know why you guys are making such a big stink about this. It is not like you guys will ever buy an F150 anayways so what's it to you? Time will tell if it was a good decision and there are a lot more cars on the road that have all aluminum bodies than you think. Most of your high end brands have already adopted this in some of there cars years ago. If it cost more then oh well. How many times have paid a higher price for something you wanted regardless of how much it was. If people want it badly enough then they will pay for it, if they don't then they won't. It's as simple as that. If what you say is true then you guys should be rejoicing because it will force truck buyers to by the brands you guys like. The only reason I see you guys complaining the way you do is because you are afraid it will work and will be a big plus for Ford.

@All1
Nobody is saying that it was a bad decision by Ford to go all aluminum. It's a discussion about aluminum corrosion and cost of repairs that will follow. A lot of you think your next F150 will last 200 years because it'll be all aluminum.
I simply stated that there will be problems with corrosion of Al. Always have been.
You said I'm full of it and then you started your comment with this, and I quote:
"When aluminum "rusts", it forms aluminum oxide, an entirely different animal".
You admit yourself Al "rusts". Now, add paint on top of it and see how beautiful the painted surface looks like.

I don't care what everybody else drives. I only worry about what I drive at the moment. I have had Ford products before. I was born and raised in Europe. Ford products are popular there. I've gone thru having "pleasure" of owning couple. I'm here in the States now and decided I wanted to try something different now. That's why I drive a Silverado. I'm very happy with it I might add.
I enjoy pickup trucks now. I've always said an F150 is a fine truck. Just don't try to tell me it's above all. All1.

The sky is always falling on this site/blog page but if manufacturers didn't forge ahead with new methods of building vehicles we'd be stuck with model T's today.

This isn't to say there will be no issues with this but garages of old didn't have plug in diagnostic equipment either yet it became mainstream.

There's countless examples of where we've had to adapt. The second we stop inventing, creating or improving we're done for.

@gregory J
HAHA you say you've seen corrosion problems on lots of aluminum rims? I'm sure it can happen, but how does it compare with steel rims? Better or worse? I've never seen an aluminum rim corrode, but I have personally had to replace multiple steel rims because they rusted out. I know aluminum can't "rust." I know quite a bit about it, own lots of equipment and tools made with it, and I regularly weld it. I don't just "see aluminum trailers with no rust." I OWN an aluminum trailer with no corrosion that I can find. Ok that's wrong actually the only part of my aluminum trailer with any corrosion that I can find is the steel hitch. As I mentioned before we have bare aluminum irrigation pipe on our farm that is about 30 years old. We have about 20 1/4 mile long lines of it and I have never seen ANY corrosion on them. The hood problem is new to me, and sounds like it wasn't very widespread considering how many vehicles ford has with aluminum hoods. Yes it can corrode, but it sounds like the corrosion was caused because it was exposed directly to ground steel fragments which were responsible for the corrosion. Looks like ford made a mistake somewhere, but it wasn't a problem with it being aluminum, it was a problem with improper exposure before it was painted. The fact is that aluminum corrosion is unlikely to be a problem on the new f-150. As others have said, you are making a big stink over nothing. As far as corrosion, it will likely be vastly superior to steel. It sure is in every other application I have ever seen it.


I have seen aluminum rims corrode badly but those tended to be factory cast rims. Once the surface gets pitted the corrosion sets in badly. Forged or billet rims fare much better.
I had an F250 with aftermarket aluminum running boards made by a local company. I had that truck 15 years. The running boards went from being shiny almost like chrome to a slightly dull colour. They were never painted or coated. The truck had a considerable amount of body rust at 15 years and the running boards did not look much different than year 1 (other than multiple rock chips, dents and scrapes on the under surface.

I personally would not touch ANY new truck with new technology (new for trucks). I'd rather let someone else be part of the beta test. I am sure that Ford put considerable effort into this project but problems always occur.
That is no different than Ram with airbags and 8 speeds or Chevy if they ever try something "new" ;).

With that being said, I'd look at a 2014 Ford if I had to replace my truck. I have a loaner truck with the Ecoboost and I'm impressed.
GMC/Chevy would also be a choice since they haven't changed too much. I'd stay away from Ram for a year or two until their new stuff gets proven. The Tundra is basically unchanged but I can't warm up to the looks.


I have original Tri-fold aluminum black painted tonneau cover for two years installed and it looks very ugly froom salty roads corrosion already.The white spots are everywhere. At least hundreds of them.
Just two winters in Alberta.
Good luck with painted aluminum in area, where salty roads are must for getting rid of ice. Like whole Canada and 50% of Us.
It might work in Florida though. I am not buying. I will pay those extra money for diesel engine to get same mileage. Insurance is going to be the same and body repair and maintenance is going to be same. Resell value higher.
On second thought, I will buy RAM 2500 6.4 HEMI with solid steel components.

@ALL1
You can use the 'small' truck line if you want. But the reality is I like all vehicles. Since you are relatively new here (I think) you will not realise my original debate was to do with tariffs and protectionism of an industry. My view about tariff and protectionism would have been the same towards large pickups.

But for efficiency gains a smaller and/or lighter pickup makes more sense. Aerodynamics makes much more sense.

I'm a big believer in diesel. The size of a person's vehicle is an individual choice. The same goes for what they want to do with a vehicle, until it affect me personally.

As for turbo's, I specialise in gas turbines. I have stated the following comment for a long time, the vehicle industry will follow the aviation industry. Even in some engineering ideals, ie weight reduction and energy efficiency. Aviation required this through necessity, ie, profit. Whereas the auto industrial changes are more legislated.

But for the weight reduction to occur the room for error is becoming more marginal, the room for people like yourself to extract power will become harder as vehicles are engineered to finer tolerances.

When I was younger if you wanted more performance, whether power or handling or whatever, you had to do it yourself. But nowadays you can buy most anything you want off the shelf.

I see the future this way, things like overloading a vehicle can have more dire consequences and the same will go for extracting more power from an engine. As vehicles progress room for error will become smaller and smaller.

I have used this before, a step ladder can be designed to carry 150kg, but it could be actually hold 450kg. An aircraft ladder would hold 150kg and actually hold 200kg. Both are designed to manage a specific load, but one has less room for error. This is what actually occurs.

I forsee issues like more structural failures of chassis's and other components as people overload their vehicles. Manufacturers will record how much work your vehicle will be doing and if you exceed their recommended limits you will pay. Like an aircraft, you just can't overload them. You have to consider many things, ie, runway length, undercarriage load capacity, etc.

Nowadays if you want to extract more you will need to find workarounds that will work, or you will have problems much easier than in the 'old days'.

Have fun modifying vehicles, but be careful. If you want more power what about the brakes? or the drivetrain?

It can cost your's or another's life and cost much money. I would leave well enough alone and buy what you actually want.

@Mike G
Many aircraft are rebuilt using the original data plates.

Structurally you will find most of the aircraft is replaced.

The radial engines used in older aircraft is becoming less common as engine parts are becoming harder to find. PT-6 tubine engines are replacing many of the original radials in DC-3s.

I have read that the UK Air Force is actually making aircraft components that are un-obtainable by 3D printing techniques. Maybe this will help in the restoration of old aircraft.

The DC-3 was built in massive numbers. It's like stating I've seen a 1932 A Model. How much of the vehicle is actually original or un modified?

Aircraft can and do work hard, but do they face the same rigours of the average motor vehicle? There are many regulations governing the maintenance and use of an aircraft in comparison to a motor vehicle.

@ Big AL

"Have fun modifying vehicles, but be careful."

I will have fun modifying my vehicles. Been doing it for over 15 years either mechanical (ie changing cams) and/or through the ECM with 5 different that I have owned and not one blown motor. I am careful and only stupid (or insanely rich) people tune there vehicles past the safe limits of what the rest of the vehicle can handle.

"If you want more power what about the brakes? or the drivetrain?"

Again, only stupid people tune there vehicles past the safe limits of what the rest of the vehicle can handle. I do not go WOT (wife open throttle) coming off of every stop light or go 100 mph down every highway. Neither do I use my brakes at the last minute to burn them up or right them. I am actually a very calm and moderate driver on the road despite what ever mental image you have of me just because I like more power out of my trucks.

"It can cost your's or another's life and cost much money."

We all have a risk of dying and I don't drive in any way to purposefully endanger those around me. Damn, I really wonder how you picture me just because I like more power out of my vehicles. Yes, it costs me money and I am okay with that. It's my money that I earned with my own earning power and I will spend as I please. If something brakes then I will fix it or pay to get it fixed. Please, try not to tell me how I should spend my own money, you are starting to sound like President Obama.

"I would leave well enough alone and buy what you actually want."

Yes, YOU would leave well enough alone, but YOU are not ME. I am different than YOU. We do not share the same beliefs so please refrain from trying to tell me what I should do, us Texans don't like that. Also, I did buy the vehicle I wanted with all the options i wanted too. I am just making it my own and I like it. Ford's stock tune for the Ecoboost sucked for my taste so I changed it to my liking. Now it shifts a little later to keep me in a certain rpm range instead of shifting too soon to safe fuel with the stock mapping. The torque converter locks in sooner and stays locked in longer to put all of the engines power to the ground sooner instead of having a free revving engine only putting part of its power down the driveline. The drive by wire throttle was touched up to give me better response instead of the spongy feeling stock. The tow/haul mode shift points were re-worked to give me better engine braking that what the stock map provided. The turbos kick in a little sooner to give me more torque sooner for towing my trailer and makes for very fun everyday driving might I add. All of this was done to my own preferences that I wanted and I could not get out of any truck sock on the market so I made the truck I wanted my own. Oh, and the tuning also added more power since it was safe to do so without harming anything else in the engine or driveline. I didn't want to say that last part because now you are picturing me as some young punk kid that just wants to race all the time like you already do.

@ALL1
I'm not stating not to do something, but to look at the potential outcome as well.

All I'm saying is remember if you make an engineering design deviation it will affect or impact something else. This can lead to a failure or even an accident.

You can also state that it's your vehicle and you can do what you want. But, also remember driving a vehicle on a road is a very public activity. Responsibilites are also involved with that.

You state towing is one area that you want improvement in and you only stated the changes to engine power/torque and some software changes to your shifting and throttle.

Increasing the power and torque like you have, did you improve your brake performance? The power and torque changes you have made will alone move a buzz box 1 000kg car at 160kph.

I'm not stating not to modify, as I've done it as well. But I've also come unstuck.

I've read what you wrote, ie, torque multiplication, this can only occur through gearing reduction. You can't multiply torque in an engine, only through the drivetrain.

You talk of FE and ratios but disregard the impact of gearing and FE, but yet talk of it's impact on towing.

I don't mind reading what you write, but I will make a comment and if necessary deliver a point of view.

Increase power and torque and the responsiveness of your pickup, but also look at other areas that could be improved.

It's your truck and your money I realise this, but I'm offering advice from experience and what I've learnt.

My writing style/tone might turn you off, but I'm not looking for a fight. I try and write objectively.

Every f'ken TROLL is F.O.S!!!!


Then we will see GM and RAM go ALUMINUM, then we'll see them eat their words. HYPOCRITICAL JOHNNY TROLL!!!!

crown vics, grand marquis, and town cars have had aluminum hoods for years guys!!! Jag and Audi seem to have it down. At least it is on a high volume vehicle this time around, so tooling over the next few years will come down. Aluminum is going to be the in metal for manufactures now, esp after they see how well Ford does with this stuff on the new trucks.

Going forward here I'd like to ask that if folks wanna compare airplanes, alum trailers, rims, alum engine blocks, New F150, etc, that since I'm no metal expect... we should all compare apples to apples. What I mean is since some of the above mentioned are NOT ALL pure alum, some maybe alum alloy mix as someone mentioned earlier. So yes some will show corrosion much earlier than other alum mixes & even steel. We can bash a particular mfg'd item of some kind of alum product but not fair to compare to another alum product if composition is NOT the same, meaning mixed with alloy's. Just a thought.

@Big Al - it is hard to discern tone or intent on a unidimentional blog as we cannot hear vocal intonations or visualize facial and body tone.
You written posts can come accross as being confrontational and even arogant and that is how All 1 is reading it.

All 1 is one of the bloggers on this site that makes intelligent comments and has logic to back his comments.

@Lou_BC
I understand and I do apologise.

I understand what he's stating, but I also have questions for him. He does make comments which in my mind doesn't marry up to what I know or have experienced.

I'm interested in how and why he comes to the decisions he makes concerning engineering.

I come across people everyday discussing similar or parallel ideas and problems.

I have nothing against what ALL1 is doing as it is very progressive and it will increase and expand his knowledge, and mine.

But, I do look at most issues from a different perspective than most because of my job.

I do know people do like to extract more performance from anything ranging from a kid try to fit more food in their mouth to how many hp you an obtain from and engine.

But from reading what he writes he does have knowledge and experience at what he's doing. I'm also questioning him to make him think further and explore other ideas and to look at how he analyses how he approaches his 'engineering'.

I'm actually interested in what he's doing and how he arrives at certain decisions.

Like you my job has change my thought processes on how to project manage, assess and organise and to come to decisions that are beneficial and productive.

I do believe that the amount of performance he has gained from his engine I would also assess the impact it does have on other areas of the vehicle. But that is his decision.

I question down to that level. I'm systematic, methodical and analytical.

" I have a loaner truck with the Ecoboost and I'm impressed."
Posted by: Lou_BC | Jan 29, 2014 11:45:10 AM

What's the loaner for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu5wYZC5ekY

Too small for me!!! Sounds Like a gas guzzler to Me !!!!!

So much for the Slogan "Built Ford Tough" Ford will probably get sued over that statement in their commercials now. lol

Unproven engine line up and more expensive products from Ford. NO THANKS.

The smallest ENGINE will be $ plus , or WILL BE and has been in my last 16 trucks in the last 30 years. It only took one of the small v6s to make buy anything smaller!

@HEMI V8 I know why Frank has his thong in a wad for now. Lou's 5.4 spit the plugs and crack the exhaust manifolds after know it all ALL1 and BAFO had a sissy slapping battle try to figure out how to tune that Lou's Lame 5.4 up to get Frank the 2 ton tank back to Mexico to visit is Family LMAO!!!!

@Big Al

Thank you for your supposed concern that you say you have, but I would have to call BS. When Lou and I were talking tuning, you interjected (in multiple posts) on how it can ruin my turbos along with all these bad things it will do to my engine. No where did you have this supposed concern about the safety of others on the road and brake failure that you speak of now.

Quite frankly, I don't know how me adding more power to my truck will effect the braking. It is not like I am going to tow more than what the truck is rated for. It just tows a lot easier without needing as many rpms as before. Instead of having 420lb-ft at 2,500 rpm, it has it at 1,800 rpm now with 530lb-ft at 2,500rpm. How does it effect peoples safety on the road? It is not like I drive 100 mph everywhere I go. I drive just as normal as I do without it being tuned, just with less throttle input needed to get up to speed. The 6R80 transmission input shaft is rated at 800Nm which is a little under 600lb-ft. The factory output shaft limiter(nanny) was slightly increased but to a safe level. The axle can definitely handle the extra torque based on there specs. This is not my first rodeo on tuning a vehicle, and I don't do business with fly by night tuning companies. Thank you for your concern, but I go this.


As far as this.....

"You talk of FE and ratios but disregard the impact of gearing and FE, but yet talk of it's impact on towing."

Yes, I did talk about the impact of FE and gear ratios. I have mentioned more than once that my work truck 2wd 3.15 Ecoboost that is rated to tow 8,500lbs gets roughly 19.5-20 mpg combined city/hwy at the end of each tank while my personal 4x4 3.73 rear end Ecoboost with slightly larger aggressive tires (which is rated to tow 11,200 lbs) usually returns about 15-16 mpg combined city/hwy each tank. That alone tells you that I grasp the impact of gears and fuel economy. The reason why I said that the 3.15 Ecoboost and the 3.92 Ecodiesel should be in the same class is because they both are rated to tow in the same 8,000lbs range. If the test was about fuel economy only, then it is obvious to see that the Ecoboost is not your best bet by the EPA numbers just as the Ecodiesel wouldn't be in a towing test. The most fuel efficient configuration with an Ecoboost will not beat the most fuel efficient configuration in an Ecodiesel, but the most fuel efficient Ecodiesel configuration does not have the capabilities that the most fuel efficient Ecoboost configuration has.

I understand that you like to give your point of view on things, but telling someone that point of view in three posts in a row how they are wrong to tune their own truck is bordering on obsessive compulsive disorder of needing to tell people how they should live their lives. Your first point was fine and it got your point across in which I was have told you what I just said above. Continuing the onslaught in more posts in even other articles is a bit much.

I still would like you to answer how having more power in my truck would effect braking or the safety of others on the road. That still boggles my mind on where you came up with that one.....

Actually the Ford Eco boost has been proven. Proven to be a P.O.S. I guess now the Ford F 150 being made of all aluminum. You can push it home easier than before. LOL

F omer

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ALL1 just wants more customers! Buy your turbo Ford, he will tune it, and if it blows, looks like you are screwed with the bill!

This is the same type of person that says the ecoboost doesn't need the 91 octane that is recommended when working it hard! LOL!

Give us a few years, Ford will not only make billions off the ecoboost by selling the product, but selling replacement parts as well! Repeat customers!

So we get it, ALL1, you don't care about the extra cost to initially buy the aluminum truck. You don't care about the cost to tune it; nor do you care if the insurance costs more, or if it should break (when) when you play with it, and you have to pay the bill to replace the engine when it pops, and that you will be out of a truck while your engine is being replaced.

We get it, you don't care. Most of us do!

But apparently you want it as a toy, or to advertise your business?

You're right, I won't be buying a F-150 anytime soon. I looked at them in 2009-2010 before I bought my 2010 Ram.

I hated to not have select shift, which Ford added for 2011, and I wasn't gonna buy something without being able to put it in EVERY gear.

Very few CREW 6.5 beds were out there. I am not gonna order one and pay more.

I wasn't crazy about the over styled grille.

A 5.4? Meh. Although it's the last of the Ford V-8s without a turbo that actually makes low end power, unlike the 5.0 and 6.2 that need revved.

I drove two eco boosts, one in Lawton Oklahoma, one in Springfield Mo. Both places the salesman tells you were to drive, no thanks. (What, they don't want me driving bumpy roads?)

I sure am not gonna buy one with this big ass ugly grille on it. Have they ever thought of making them more aerodynamic? I will let others test the aluminum waters, and pay the higher prices.

Why buy a 6 speed when there is an 8 speed with better gear spacing that's much smoother?

I can't say I need a crew cab, but I need a 6.5 bed. I don't want a truck that takes an acre to turn in. I am not gonna buy a Supercab with backwards doors and a smaller back seat area then a Ram quad or Tundra double.

Oh, I am not a turbo hater, had fun with my SRT-4 and still have a Shelby Z Turbo 2 with a Mopar Performance 14 PSI boost computer. I just don't believe in heavy loads behind a high boosted gas engine with lightweight (weaker) cylinder blocks. Let some other people test that stuff.

Oh, by the way, you would like to make us think a hemi is nowhere near it's max torque when not at 4,000 rpm, just because you confuse it with Fords v-8s, (present ones) Maybe you should look at K&N's dyno pulls (they show power before and after they add their intakes) and see your 3.5 isn't really as broad in bower as Ford wants you to think!

LOL, Ram now having the 8 speed and only a 3.55 could smoke a Ford with 3.73s, -or so the light Duty Challenge shows-maybe they should remake Fords old Davis Dam test, the one in which the Hemi made a 12 seconds lead down to 3 seconds, now with an 8 speed the results would be different.

You have expressed your negativity, I'm expressing mine. You don't like a two way street?

You can bet somebody at Ford and other companies are listening more.

@zviera: pretty corrosive in Florida, atleast near the cost.

@ TRX 4 Tom

I don't tune other peoples trucks so I am not trying to get business. I have the SCT software to tune mine though.

Oh, and I am do for some vacation so any time you want to meet up to test the reliability and towing power of this engine you call a POS Ecoboost versus what ever half ton production truck you bring towing 10,000 lbs up a 10+ miles of grade 6 mountain roads then I will be your huckleberry. Oh, and I will even do it in the summer 100+F+ heat with only 87 octane to test your theory that this engine of mine requires premium to do some heavy towing. The difference between you and I is that I am willing to back up what I say with facts and real world events. Can you do the same? I didn't think so.....

@TRX-4
Yeah. Good point. I completely forgot about that. I won't be ford guinea pig. RAM has proven components and I will stay with them.

@HEMI V8 - my wife scraped up the side of the box from the right front corner to the wheel well. It is in the body shop and my insurance plan guarantee's a similar replacement for the week it is in getting body work.

I have to say that the EB 3.5 is an impressive motor when it comes to HP and torque. It hauls ass. I am getting used to the sound of a V6.
The only thing I don't like about the truck is the E-locker in the rear. It disengages at 35 mpg and won't re-engage until under 22 mph.
I looked up GM's e-locker and it is similar in engagement points.
The disengagement of the e-lock coincides with the reactivation point of traction control so I suspect that it is government mandated.

The e-locker will stay engaged in 4lo up to 55 but who the f^ck drives 55 in 4lo? (other than Oxi).

and no, nothing mechanically wrong with my truck.

@zviera - Ram has proven components?

Where is the Ecodiesel?
Why the delays?

It took a long time for that 8 speed to show up too.
Weren't there a recall on them already?

Why were all of those Cherokee's delayed?

I've read several stories about "overheat" lights on Ram and Grand Cherokee air ride systems.

Pentatick anyone?

Every manufacturer that moves into new territory has teething problems.

Once Ram moves to #1 on JD Power Dependability study, or Vincentric #1 then one can brag.

BTW, I wouldn't touch an aluminum F150 until it has been out 4-5 years.

Lou BC: what e-locker from GM are you talking about? if it is new ok, but I have not read of any, the only one I know about and own is the auto-lock but Eaton, where if one wheel is spinning faster than the other, both lock together, no mater the speed or stability/traction setting, in other words it is "automatic" and has nothing to do with "electrics" with no switches involved.

@LOU
Yes. RAM has proven components. HEMI V8 , 545 RFE transmission,
Coil spring rear axle... That's what I was driving in my Durango for 280 000 kms pulling my trailer and that's what I am driving in my RAM for 2 years with 107 000 kms now. When time is ready, I will buy RAM 2500 with either HEMI 6.4 or 3L diesel.
HEMI with 545RFE is much more reliable combination than anything from ford. I still have 3 more years to drive my Laramie and I will get RAM again with ZF 8 speed and ironed issues if there is going to be any. I doubt it, because it's proven German engineering.
RAM has best combination of proven components in any truck.

The e-locker will stay engaged in 4lo up to 55 but who the f^ck drives 55 in 4lo? (other than Oxi).

By Lou

I don't care who you are but that's funny right there! LMAO

@zviera - you, Hemi, and "Trx with the long blog name" are the only one's I've encountered that say they have owned virtually trouble free FCA products.

@ LOU
I have never said that. I had a plenty of troubles with Dodge minivan from transmission ( many times) to gas tank transfer pump..., but never ever had a problem with Dodge Durango with HEMI and 545 RFE trany and RAM 1500 with HEMI and 545 RFE transmission. Never.
I am assuming if we are at pickup truck forum, we are talking about pickup trucks in here. Not FCA products , not all Ford products. They have so many recalls for other ford products as well. Last one is from yesterday again. So lets talk about trucks in here . Shall we?

@zviera - Really? You slag Ford then say Ram has proven components?
Any time a company makes big changes, components are NOT proven.
Ram and Chrysler currently have multiple Unproven components of which I listed.
Ford is moving into new territory and because of that does not have proven components.

Any time a company takes a risk and moves forward, components are not proven.

The only ones that one can say have proven components in current (2014) trucks are GMC and Toyota.

The 5.7 Hemi is proven but how long will that engine continue to exist?

@Lou and zveria
I think that Ford and Ram are using proven concepts.

People talk of the F-150 and Ram as marvels, but they aren't. People are looking at these vehicles ass-up from a technology perspective.

What is going to be a technological breakthrough is similar to the Model T, which for it's time wasn't considered a technological marvel, but it's method of production was the bigger marvel.

The same will be said of the aluminium F-150. If it can be honed and polished the production methods will advance vehicle production, which will gradually flow on to design.

The same can be stated to a lesser degree for Ram with all of the electronics and even the diesel (to a degree).

These vehicles are more breakthroughs in production techniques than actual vehicles.

If Ford can get this correct, maybe some of the production techniques will flow onto aviation, like mass production techniques from the Model T had.

Even Rolls Royce approached Ford to understand mass production of engines during WWII.

@ LOU
Yes . You said that. That's exactly what I am telling you again and again. HEMI is proven. 545 RFE is proven. Spring coil rear axle is proven.That's what I am driving. I am driving proven RAM with proven components. Ford 6 speed trany is jiggling at low speed in my friends 45000 Cad truck. He took me, my wife and one more couple for Kelowna area wine tasting last year. My other friend noticed that right away and asked about it. No answer from the driver. You can't push me to be ford guinea pig. That's my decision. If they prove, that aluminum body has no corrosion in Alberta for at least 7 years, I will think of the ford. But I would be still missing 6.4 HEMI or 3L diesel, 8 speed ZF, rear coil spring axle with much better and safer drive, nicer finished front end. What else do you want to talk about?
I am not buying ford. I have my reasons and I am right.

Wow Lou, all this new "stuff" from Ford and you really think it might be reliable? Why are you using a loaner, anyway?

Yeah, those 8 speeds must be breaking everywhere from the way you talk of it. (they aren't)

Pentastar....one recall, no issues...

Ecodiesel? might be supply related, but you will try to make it look bad. The engine is out in Jeeps.

Eight speed? Supply related, duh! They were out in the quarter they said they would be out in, sorry your little town had none.

You bitch of Rams diesel or 8 speed not out fast enough, where is GMs 6.2s?

On the Ford side?

transmission issues....slams into 1st....

Ecoboost? Not too proven considering people with light loads get CELs, and they sputter in humidity....yeah, really proven...

Since you talk Jeeps, not trucks, how about those Escapes? How many recalls? 7 or 8? On new for 2012 model? Ford is still trying to fix cracked heads on them, and oil leaks and under hood fires...what a joke.

Did you happen to read JD Powers before you bought your current truck? Where is Ford now on JD Powers?

Wow, Ford with have a re tuned (needs all the help it can get) 5.0, needs more low end and can't get the mileage a Hemi 8 speed can, even with all those valves.

Same old unsorted 3.5 eco choke, and a new 3.5 that's unproven but is their cause they want to build a smaller engine to beat Rams 3.6, and a unproven 2.7 in an unproven body.

Great!

@ALL1: if you pull 10,000 pounds with a tune that lets you run more boost, when they already advise you to run higher octane, for such work, and in 100 degree heat, you are well, I wont say, but you are asking for it.

Does that show your computer is taking spark timming out with high boost on 87?

You will be boo hoo'ing when it craps on you..but you got a big wallet, or you make it sound like it, so enjoy the hassle. Most of us want dependability, we dont all get excited cause we can play with a short lived turbo truck.

I am all for boost in trucks with sturdy blocks and proper fuel, read, diesel. With diesel we don't have three grades to chose from, so one fuel works for all. So I don't have to second guess if I put in the right fuel.

And what Big Al has to say about diesel could be quite right as we could get more out of it if we use a different one. I haven't studied diesel extensively, so I don't know.

There must be a reason the manual advises you use high octane (35 to 60 cents higher) in your truck, or maybe the people who wrote the manual aren't as smart as you?

I haven't time to go all around the country to do towing tests against every person that wants to play around with their truck. Maybe you are a loaner and have not much else to do?

Time will tell how long your engine lasts...what do you think Sandman 4x4s issues are with his head gasket blowing truck?

Looks like I pissed off the Ram fan boys TRx what's his name and Zorro.

TRX - The F150 was the highest ranked 1/2 ton in JD Power for 2013. That would be based on data from the 2010 truck.
The Chevy/GM HD's came in tied in 1st/2nd and the now defunct Avalanche came in 3nd.
JD Power lists the "Top 3" on its press release but if one looks further, the F150 came in just behind the Avalanche.
Care to look where the Ram 1500 ranked? It was WELL after the Toyota Tundra, Tacoma, and GMC 1500 twins.

Vincentric which rates trucks for fleet and civilian use put the GM HD's first for fleet use and the Ram HD 1st for civilian use. The F150 was rated 1st for both fleet and civilian.

@Zviera - 8 speed and air ride still needs some miles on it to be proven.

@Big Al - the technology we are seeing in not new or un-proven to other countries or other manufacturing companies but is new and un-proven to USA and Canada. Those companies need to learn to work with this technology and make it fit to USA standards.
USA/Canada consumers are not familiar with this technology and since most are myopic and do not see beyond the shoreline will not trust it until it has some miles under it.

@Trx - why don't you re-read what I posted to Hemi V8 explaining why I have a "loaner".........

I'll re-post for you:

my wife scraped up the side of the box from the right front corner to the wheel well. It is in the body shop and my insurance plan guarantee's a similar replacement for the week it is in getting body work.

I have to say that the EB 3.5 is an impressive motor when it comes to HP and torque. It hauls ass. I am getting used to the sound of a V6.
The only thing I don't like about the truck is the E-locker in the rear. It disengages at 35 mpg and won't re-engage until under 22 mph.
I looked up GM's e-locker and it is similar in engagement points.
The disengagement of the e-lock coincides with the reactivation point of traction control so I suspect that it is government mandated.

The e-locker will stay engaged in 4lo up to 55 but who the f^ck drives 55 in 4lo? (other than Oxi).

and no, nothing mechanically wrong with my truck.

@Lou_BC
I wonder if my Mazda BT50 which is a Ford does the same with it's E locker ass-end.

Does the F-150 have the 8.8 E locker like our Ranger/BT50 and the same software managing it?

I'll go and find out if my rearend when the diff is locked drops out.

@TRX
First up, this comment isn't about starting a midsize vs fullsize war again.

But, over the past several years our midsizers are producing some awesome trucks. Every aspect from chassis, suspension, drivetrain, overall interior/exterior trim and finish has changed as much as your pickup are currently changing.

You can see if Ford is going to a 3 litre class diesel in an HD our midsizers with a 3 litre class diesel are quite good.

I have taken considerable flack for my comments. But I don't know if you remember, I have stated that a 3 litre class diesel will work in an HD and will be moving in your direction (US) some time ago.

I can't really see any alternative other than diesel to meet US regulated FE targets. Manufacturers will be forced to make diesel work in the US.

The Lion diesel going into the Ford SD will have about 250hp and 440ftlb of torque. The assend ratio would have to be in the mid 4's though.

@LOU
You sound like a broken record.
I am not driving 8 speed and air ride. I am driving HEMI and 545RFE. Most reliable and proven combo on the truck market. It has been proven by me for 9 years straight without any problems . None , Zero, Nada. And of course proven Coil Spring Rear axle. I don't need any JD Power one year data. I have my own 9 years collected data. From 2004 with Durango HEMI 545 RFE trany to 2010 RAM 1500 HEMI 545 RFE Laramie. Did you get it finally? You read too much and get confused. Try drive more instead.

@zviera - your comments implied that the new Rams were proven.
If I said that Ford trucks were proven based on my 2010 SuperCrew 5.4 you'd be making all sorts of comments against it.
If anyone is sounding like a broken record, it is you.

I have reservations about the aluminum body and small turbo engines. I have said so before. I even went as far as saying a while back that the new Ram (self adjusting air ride, shutters, 8 speed, diesel) was the compass pointing the way for others to follow.
Ford is taking a big chance and I have said that I would stay away from an aluminum body until it has been out a least 5 years. I feel the same way about the Ecoboost 3.5.

I have been driving one for 5 days and it is amazing. I will have it for at least 3 more days. I'm not about to go buy one but it is an eye opener to drive.

I'll consider a Ram once JD Power and Vincentric etc. rate them better and I run across more people with positive experiences with them.

@TRX 4 Tom


No, I would do the tow off completely stock. I have to let you think you had some sort of a chance. Yes, my SCT data logger collects timing and knock information. For some who does not own an Ecoboost, you sure do think you know a lot about them. I mean, who would you trust and owner of something or a fanboy that is jealous with it so he has to make up whatever he can to justify his brand choice. Hmmmm, I would go with the person who actually owns and tows with the truck. I have put well over 10,000 towing miles on my truck and 90% of that was tuned..... in 100+ Texas heat.... towing between 7,500 to 10,000lbs. I have 80K miles on the clock and it has been tuned since 10K. Not one sign of hick up, strain, or blown head gasket. I don't know what happen to Mr sandman's truck. Could be a once in a blue moon fluke just like every manufacturer has one or he could be just blowing smoke up our a--.

Regardless of what I say, you are go to believe and mold selected facts to fit your predetermined mindset that anything but a Ram is bad. That's fine because your kind are easy to spot and the stuff that comes out of you all's mouth without any facts or proof to back them is quite comical. It's like ya'll will make up anything as long as it give your favorite brand the glory. Hell, they will even tell other brand owners what type of fuel that is require in their truck even though they don't do their research to find out that it doesn't need said fuel do to direct injection.

I don't always go off on a fanboy, but when I do, it's with real world facts.......

Stay blindly brand loyal my friends.....

@Lou_BC
Maybe the next time your wife drive YOUR truck you will get a V6 Lion Super Duty ;)

@Big Al from Oz - I found that if I shut off the traction control the rear of the truck stops chattering. I think that with the e-locker engaged, wheel spin confuses the traction control which causes the suspension to load up. It feels a little like wheel hop under hard acceleration.

It has been fun playing around with a rental truck for the last week. I averaged 17.3 litres/100km. That is better than my 5.4 under the same conditions.
I also have been heavier on the throttle than normal. On the highway it pulled strong and easy to 160 kph. At low throttle openings and most driving under 1500 rpm, it feels similar to my 5.4.

@Lou_BC
Wow, I can't imagine FE figure like you are getting. Even driving at over 160kph I'm using around 15 litre per 100km.

I haven't played around with my diff lock yet. But I will after reading your encounters. I've only used it off road and probably no quicker than 50-60kph in low range.

ta,



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