Consumer Reports Chooses 2014 Ram 1500 as a Top Pick

Ram Longhorn 2 II

Consumer advocacy magazine, Consumer Reports, has chosen the 2014 Ram 1500 as its Top Pick in the pickup truck category. The last Chrysler vehicle to be a Top Pick was the 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The 18-year-old Top Pick award is based on several factors such as governmental crash tests and rollover scores, its own in-house road-test scoring, as well as its own subscriber-based problems reports.

The Ram 1500 actually had lower scores than the 2014 Chevrolet Silverado 1500, but CR determined it didn't have enough reliability data on the new GM pickups and some of its test drivers consider the Silverado as comfortable as the new Ram 1500. The Ram 1500's biggest strengths are its inviting interior and smooth overall ride, according to CR.

To read more about the Consumer Reports Top Picks, click here.



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RAM Quad Cabin is not the same like ford super cabin. Super cabin is pain in the oz to get in to and doesn't have B pillar and smaller room.
RAM Quad Cabin has regular doors like grown adult. Not a suicide ones like ford.

Max GCVW 14500lbs - Curb Weight 5250lbs= 9250lbs
9250lbs - Trailer 7700lbs = 1550lbs
1550lbs - tongue weight 770lbs = 780lbs
780lbs - 3 people 450lbs = 330 lbs for extra payload
780lbs - 2 people 300lbs = 480 lbs for extra payload.

Considering my trailer has 4500lbs, I would have plenty of room for extra people and payload to carry, if I need any.
This truck will find many happy customers for the best MPG and most comfortable drive on the market.

Consumer Reports has been the first to complain about the Ford Fusion out-selling the Honda Accord, and Toyota Camray. The only complaint they have against Ford is the SYNC system being too complicated. That's nit-picking! Consumer Reports thinks consumers are dumb and stupid and they know better! Consumer Reports only averages their consumer ratings and feedback from a small circle of population in the Northeast U.S. cause that's where 90% of their subscribers live! You can get better reviews here on I am not trashing the Ram, its a great truck, but the ONLY reason they are recommending is because Consumer Reports hates Ford!

Zviera ? The 3.0 turbo diesel is a $4000 option in the 2014 Ram 1500. I don't wanta pay $60K for a 1/2 ton pickup just so I can save $500/year on fuel

Still waiting to buy my Sierra 6.2 Ecotec with 450 ft-lbs on regular gas, & rated 15/21hwy. Hoping to get one for $35k

I just had a debate and was told that your pickups are bought to carry 5 fully grown men and tow trailers.

So, that would mean any twin cab pickup has a 980lbs passenger load if each passenger averaged the 196lbs.

This only leaves you with a 450lb hitch weight, before you even put some gas into the truck.

At best the Ram can tow is 4 500lbs. That's not even with the lowest capacity Ram available. That would tow maybe a 1 000lbs with the same number of guys seated.

How much can a Taco tow with 5 people?

You are also working on 150lbs for each passenger, unless in Alberta or New Brunswick or where ever you are from have tiny little men similar to the Bushman of the Kalahari Desert.

How much can a Ford tow?

So why have a vehicle that can't tow to its max when you have your cabin full?

What good are the tow figures? They are only good if you have a maximum of two passengers.

Or the reality is the trucks aren't expected to work like you might seem to think.

They are either-or vehicles, not both.

If you look closely at this debate your having again about towing makes a mockery of your view on gearing and ratios.

Manufacturer's determine ratios on the most logical vehicle configuration outcome.

The only vehicles that should be tested according to your theory is a pickup that can carry a decent load and tow to the maximum limit.

Most don't, hence the differences in ratios to achieve the desired FE.

Ratios aren't as simple as you would like to think. Pickup being what they are, are used primarily as SUVs, a lifestyle vehicle.

Yes they can tow and yes they can carry 5 fully grown men. But it appears most can't do both.

So what do you think is the most logical load configuration for a crew cab towing a trailer?

In all honesty a diesel Colorado with a 6 700lb tow limit taking a mother, father, two kids camping on a weekend will tow a large enough camper trailer, just as well as a full size.

Some food for thought.

You two are arguing over nothing.

So, when you start debating about ratios consider how the vehicle will normally be used, ie number of passengers and payload in the bed.

The truck will still tow what the manufacturer recommended, but it will be a far better truck for normal and expected use.

How often do you see a 1/2 ton truck maxed out? Not often. 95% of the time all they're hauling is people. The rest of the time maybe fire wood, or an ATV, or a lawn mower, or pulling a bass boat. People generally don't max out a 1/2 ton truck.

The guys who know they're going to work the truck hard usually go for the 3/4 ton.

My point is this... superior fuel economy IS a critical feature of 1/2 ton pickup trucks now days. If you look at the 2014 line-up, Ram is building the trucks that suit peoples' needs the best. Best ride quality, best fuel economy, competitive pricing, and nicer interior while still being able to get the light duty jobs done with ease. Best warranty also...


You can't just subtract the curb weight from the GCVW. It doesn't work that way. The payload of the truck(1,439lbs) is less then that 1,550lbs you came up with so you would go by the "which ever is less" like Ram states in their own towing guide.

@ Big Al

Read more carefully. Lou and I are pointing out the obvious weak point in this equation which is the payload and how it relates to it's towing number. It has nothing to do about FE, gear ratios, or what ever gibberish you are speaking. We are simply stating that your payload will cap you out long before the tow rating will. Even with a few people and gear in the cab, you will not be able to come close to the max tow rating.

I will respond to your other post in the other article later when I have time.

1/2 ton trucks are childsplay, must people buy them for daily transportation and might haul a couch or tow their boat occasionally. People who need a work truck for serious work buy 3/4 or 1 tons.

Vehicle curb weight refers to the total weight of the car including the necessary equipment to make it work of run. This include weight full tank of fuel, engine oil and other standard liquid for its operation.
Yes , it has gas to run.
150lbs for each passenger is calculated by RAM web site. Maybe you should write them your upset E-mail to address that. Let me know, how it goes.

Towing guide from RAM web site shows

Curb Weight 5250lbs
2 Passengers 300lbs
Payload 1289lbs
Towing 7761lbs
in Towing and Payload Calculator

Maybe you should write them an E-mail as well and leave me out of it.
I guess you are not going to talk about anything else, but payload in here.
It has plenty for many customers. They can buy RAM2500, if they need more.

Top pick for RAM is going to help them make the right decision.
Best ride, Best MPG for Half Ton.


So......... How come when the manufacturer is Ford you call their numbers BS, but when the manufacturer is Ram then you go by them like they were the Bible? The reason I am pointing out payload is because some of the ddon't make sense. Like the Laramie Longhorn Crew cab 4x4 that has a payload of 881lbs and 8,750lbs towing. You do the math on a 8,750lbs trailer with a low 10% tongue weight, it will be 875lbs. That means if you needed to tow that much then you couldn't since just the driver in the cab will put you over the trucks payload. Why say it can tow 8,750lbs when it can't without being overloaded based on the rest of the trucks specs? Thatd doesn't make sense.

I learned from you. Write them an E-mail and let us know.
I don't comment ford numbers. You drive F250 with F150 badge on it.


"I don't comment ford numbers"

I guess you don't remember saying........

It's even worse than I thought. Your numbers are bloated directly from factory.
That's 2500 territory you are using your F150 for.
Posted by: zviera | Feb 23, 2014 6:15:32 PM"


What's the RAM 3500 territory in, if your F150 is in RAM 2500 one ?
Your F150 has bloated numbers from factory, but I know, what BS numbers looks like.
I wouldn't even think to use half ton truck for pulling 9200lb trailer or 1890lb load.
That says it all about the F150 customers.
Posted by: zviera | Feb 23, 2014 10:06:36 PM"


Yes those numbers are BS for half ton. You drive F250 with F150 badge on it.
RAM 1500 is a half ton truck with proper Payload and Tow numbers.
Best Ride and Best MPG for Half Ton Truck.
Top Pick for Consumer Reports.
Did you write them an E-mail already?
I gotta go to make some money for my RAM 2500 V8 HEMI, Progressive Rear Coil Springs Axle and 8 Speed ZF.
Leave me a message in here.

"Ram has begun shipping Ram 1500 EcoDiesel trucks from the Warren Truck Assembly Plant in Michigan to dealers within the United States. Following EPA’s best-in-class certification of 28 mpg, dealers ordered 8,000 of the trucks, which have 420 lb.-ft. of torque and up to 9,200 lbs. of towing capacity. Around 400 of these have been sold directly to customers, twice the average for sold customer orders on a vehicle that cannot yet be test driven."

@Sandman 4x4: dude, can your computer not scroll lower down the page so you can see the Crew 2500 (WITH 6.4)! 4x4 is 3252? The 5.7 and 6.4 have different payloads! Crew 4x2 is 3594 in 4x2, and if you could check properly, you would see a mega cab 4x4 (WITH 6.4!) is 2892 pounds.

Can you not read that I said 6.4 above? Can you not find the 6.4 ratings on the website?

You talk of FLT test video, now why don't you wait until they actually compare THREE 4.1 geared trucks? How about with same size tires, or atleast close, instead of the Ram having tallest tires? Heavy duty buyers often replace them with bigger ones, so when they stick meats on a Chevy, it will really be slow.

The last gasser 3/4 comparo in 2010 had the Ram 2500 with just a 5.7 smoking the 6.0. Lets see, added more power, a better set of trans gears (but still not as high as the Ford/GM trans gears) it should be better.

The Ford won that, it needed that extra trans gear, the 4.3s while the others were 4.1s, and the biggest engine.

Also sucks the most gas.

I look forward to seeing the 6.4 out perform them in truck duty, not just 0-60.

The 6.0 will be hunting gears all day!

By the way, if you want to talk softer ride and need better capicity then a half ton, the 5.7 is likely to be softer, if you dont need to haul 3,000 pounds.

I gotta wonder why a Ford site like this posted a totally different weight and payload on virtually the same loaded Larimie truck as Diesel Power did and they said 1100 pounds payload? Where is that story now???

They used Ford scales maybe?

@ Ken

@ALL1 - those fanboys are hillarious.
1st they say rival tow/haul numbers are bogus and now they say it is a rebadged 3/4 ton.


Fanatic, zealot, militant, devotee refer to persons showing more than ordinary support for, adherence to, or interest in a cause, point of view, or activity. Fanatic and zealot both suggest excessive or overweening devotion to a cause or belief. Fanatic further implies unbalanced or obsessive behavior: a wild-eyed fanatic. Zealot only slightly less unfavorable in implication than fanatic implies single-minded partisanship: a tireless zealot for tax reform. Militant stresses vigorous, aggressive support for or opposition to a plan or ideal and suggests a combative stance.

I own and have always driven Chevys, but congrats to RAM on this truck. With air suspension, 8 speed auto, and the only truck to offer a diesel in a half ton, THIS truck should get noticed. Next year the aluminum F150/ new Eco boost engine, better mpgs, more payload, etc. should get the title with all of the other improvements mentioned too. Ford and RAM are taking chances and I'm happy they are. Otherwise we would be getting rehashed old trucks with minimal improvements or styling upgrades at more cost. GM is having its worst truck launch in 15 years and there is a reason why. It's already been done before (ex. 2007). Maybe 5 years from now they can bring something new to the table to actually make the competition worry. For now, they can brag about LED cargo lights and ah..I don't know, something else. Come on GM, push the envelope some or move out of the way, because someone else is already doing it now!

@Lou BC, You just want to stir the pot. You say you can't afford a Raptor, Power Wagon. So why worry about payload on the highest 50,000 plus Ram Eco Diesel that you can't afford.

Jesus! Let the people that have already bought this Ram Eco Diesel and tons more that will be buying worry about how and what they will be using this truck for. And if they want to drive it off a cliff they sure have that right. Get over it. Stay with your rigid F 150 Fleet queen work site special and let Ram take care of the Luxury truck models. Seams like they have it covered. lol

@Tom 3: you don't have to pay 60k for the half ton that gets the best fuel economy, you can pay less then 29 for a 4x2, or less then 33k for a 4x4. Plus, who pays MSRP? People that buy limited production vehicles, or people that don't deal.

You should be able to pay 40k US $ to get a decent eqquipped 4x4 diesel crew, if you want leather, sunroof, rambox, air suspension, heated seats, navigation, dvd in back, running boards, bucket seats, both seats power, adjustable pedals, all that, is extra. 40k and less for a good eqquiped truck.

@ Lou BC

Yes, that is how some of these guys are. It is like they are so much of a fanatical devotee that they cannot even be truthful and can't admit their favorite brand has any downsides. It is funny when months back long before the Ecodiesel came out they were going on and on about how great the Hemi is (which it isn't bad) and who gives a damn about fuel mileage. Now they are all screaming about how much better fuel economy the Ecodiesel has and who gives a damn about power or payload. It is a complete flip flop that will change depending on what their favorite brand does and not what they truly think. It is almost like their brand thinks for them. Like there are suppose to like what ever there brand is doing and dislike what ever the competition is doing or face being thrown out of the "He-man Ram Lovers" club. That just makes you mindless and unable to think for yourself. It is kind of pathetic that a brand does all the thinking for them and tells them what they are suppose to like.

Ford does not think for me or tell me what I like. I chose a Ford because it had what I wanted out of a truck at the time and that could change next go round. I buy for me, NOT a brand. Unlike some of these other schlacks that cannot even mutter a negative word about their favorite brand, I can. I can think of a few bad things about my truck and other Fords. Like the Sync system in my truck is crap at times, but is great when working properly playing off my USB. I also dislike the "adaptive learning" the transmission does although every ZF transmission does that now these days. I also hate how the truck does not understand what I am saying some times and I have to say "play artist Jason Al-de-an" in order to play Jason Aldean.

I can also say goo things about other brands or products. Like how I think a 5.0L Cummins in a half ton is awesome even though Ford will probably not have one. How I do like the look of Toyota's new off road package. How I like the look of a Ram 2500/3500(not the 1500). How I think the new GM 6.2L sounds pretty good at high rpms(although I would want to hear it all the way up a mountain). There are also things don't like about every brand too including Ford. I am also a realist and cannot deny things when the Facts are right in front of me. Like how Rams Ecodiesel payload is very bad for a tow vehicle, how the Raptors payload is just bad in general for a truck, and GM saying a 5.3L 3.73 crew cab can tow 11,000lbs is pure BS marketing. It does not mean I dislike the Ecodiesel, Raptor, GM 5.3L or think they are bad vehicles/engines. It just means I can see the facts when they are right in front of me.

teeareexfourtommy: you can pick and choose all the different types of Ram trucks you want too, but there is no denying the fact that the Chevy/GM and even the Ford HD trucks have higher payloads than the Ram when equipped alike, and in most cases a lot more! Yes the Ram will tow more, but haul? not very likely.

Did you just post your diagnose in here ? You should know to keep it for yourself.
I am not a doctor , so I don't know what ROTFLMFA means, but it sounds pretty bad. Good luck to you Lou.

@All1 - A while back I had commented on the Ecoboost F150 I had as a loaner for 9 days and I did mention what I didn't like about it. The E-locker or more specifically how it is programed to work was a complaint. It would disengage over 35mph and re-engage only under 15 mph. I posted that it didn't fit a lot of the driving I do and could be a problem in the backcountry. I also found it odd that if it was in 4 lo it would stay engaged up to 55 mph. The mpg sucked but it was -25C (-13F) with a lot of snow on the ground plus I drove it harder than I would if it were mine.

The fanboys jumped over the opportunity to point out I had a loaner i.e. WTF was wrong with my F150 (body damage courtesy of the wife) and the mpg I had posted even though I explained the conditions.

It is a complete waste of time with those guys and it is best not even to waste one's key strokes.

@ Lou BC

Yeah, that E-locker is not that great with all the nannies. I gutted my diff and added an Eaton True-Trac. Ten times better and it works great with the new Advanctrac that was updated after 2011. Best of all, no knobs or buttons. It just works and at any speed too.

@ALL1 - I had my own selection process where I started from a 5-6K trailer tow ability, the ability to comfortably fit 2 growing boys, 2 big labs, and bulky cargo like dirtbikes and quads.
I ruled out the Ram based on lack of crewcab long box and poor durability ratings.
The GMT900 twins were also lacking in the box length department plus had poor fit and finish. The 5.3 didn't impress me either.
I wasn't a fan of the Titan and couldn't even bring myself to test drive one.
The Tundra was too expensive, rode a bit rough, and also had no crewcab long box.

I went with a 2010 model because I didn't want to be the test group for Ford's new line and I liked the power characteristics of the 5.4. I got 12K off plus 3k trade on a '99 Safari van.
My Supercrew is the USA equivalent of the XLT with Chrome and Luxury package. In Canada the "STX" package is an upgrade option for the XLT as opposed to being a stand alone package like the USA version.

Next time around I will do the same. Set my purchase criteria and go from there.
That is one reason why I am very disappointed with the Ram Ecodiesel package. A 1,200 lb cargo capacity in a long box crew cab 4x4 is pathetic and once one adds a few options pulls it down to under 1,000 lb.
I wouldn't even be able to take my family camping with my little aluminum boat on the truck with that kind of payload.

I am sure that people will gobble these trucks up but I can imagine the complaints coming in once they start overloading them. I've already read of alarms indicated overheated air-ride in Ram and Jeeps and of limp home mode.

No thanks. I don't want to be 6 hours away from home down the back end of a logging road and have that happen.

Ram has aced the drivetrain and mpg aspects of the 1500 Ecodiesel but somehow forgot what a truck is supposed to be about.

Might as well buy a VW Jetta diesel or get a Ridgeline if one wants coil springs and a decent payload.

You have chosen payload and max tow package right , but forgot most important part. Very anemic and thirsty , old 5.4 engine. My friend had this engine in Raptor. What a fail engine. He sold it last year and bought VW Tiguan, because he doesn't pull anything and it was eating grass and abandoned child's on the way to his work. . You should of spend extra money on Ecoboost.
And you make $300 000+ a year. Facepalm.


@Sandman 4x4: When equiped alike? A Chevy will haul more? How do you equip them alike when payload ratings are based on the engine, in this case? Oh, I got it! You will say a 2014 Chevy 2500 has more payload then a 2014 Ram 2500 6.4 if it had leaf springs? Is that how you compare? LOL!

Just wondering how you equip a Ram and Chevy alike? There is no such thing!

Maybe you mean base model? But that's not the same as ALIKE. You want something that will haul as much as the Chivy, and tow circles around it? Plus not bounce around everywhere?

Fact is, and you can't deny the 6.4 payload is as much and in some cases more then the Chevy 2500. Oh, and as for Mega cab, you can't compare a cramped Chevy crew to it, but the payload is pretty good.

If you CHOOSE to have less payload, you can get a 5.7 hemi 2500.

Have you ever looked up turn radius of both trucks? Chevy needs an acre to turn!

@zviera - I've averaged 24.5 mpg (Imperial) on several trips to Vancouver with my truck. The worst I've gotten on the same route is 23mpg (Imperial).
in town mpg varies based on weather and driving habits. I've had a few bests of 18 mpg (Imperial) but usually more in the range of 15-16 mpg (Imperial).

In the PUTC 2008 Shootout the 5.4 F150 averaged 16.8 mpg and the Ram 5.7 averaged 15.85 mpg.

Hardly a difference and nothing to write home about.

Wow, now you are recommending the Ecoboost. Are you confusing Ecodiesel with Ecoboost?

Once again your commentary sheds negative light upon you and your favorite brand.

I never said I made 300k a year, I said my friend did. I was talking about what was considered the upper and lower limits of the "middle class".

Some definitions state it is between two-thirds and twice the median income.

Currently the Canadian median household income is 77,000 per year. Double that would be 154,000 which is considered the upper limit of middle class. 2/3's is 51,333 or the lower limit. MY 'household income excedes that number. I am far from being "upper class" in wealth just like most of the people I know.
You were posting median wealth and that shows where the USA got into trouble with the housing market collapse. If you paid 500,000 for a home and you still owed that amount but the appraised value came back at 700,000, it would mean your net worth was 200,000 assuming liquidation of assets would cover the loan.

You made that impression by your comment.

"By those definitions I am not middle class but upper class. So is my friend. "
So I thought you are the same class as your friend who makes $300 000. I guess you are not. Make it clear please next time.

Meeh imperial. Do you still have 100km/h=62mph speed limit in BC ?
I made 1020 kms just on one single barrel. LOL.

Of course driving empty anemic 5.4 with 6 speed will have little better mileage than potent 5.7 HEMI with 5 speed.
Just to remind you it's 2014 and not 2008 anymore.

TRX-4, You mean to tell us, or rather admit you do not know what it means to be equipped alike? It is very simple, and it goes like this, hp figures as CLOSE as poss. and gearing a CLOSE as poss, of course you can not compare a truck with over 400hp with one that has over 40hp LESS! I think even someone in fifth grade would know that! same with the gearing! Now get your head out of the dark and use it to think with instead of just what using what you like! and leaf springs in the rear are NOT the only difference! as the Ram has coils in the ft also and has a live axel, or straight if you like, while the Chevy has independent with torsion bars, and every magazine that has tested both, and every one with an open mind that has driven both will tell you the Chevy rides and handles better! Have YOU actually driven both? cause the way you talk like it sounds like you have not! Now you do know, or maybe not after all, that GM will be coming out with a bigger gas engine for their HD trucks sooner or later, but even so the 6.0 has a good reputation, and gets decent mpg, better in fact then the Hemi 5.7, and maybe even the 6.4 Hemi unless the driver can keep it in the MDS mode, or 4 cylinder mode so you understand. The other point I want to make here is I have owned both vehicles we are talking about, and both have their good points and bad points here, the only truck I have not owned is a Ford SD, but I do own a F-150, with the HD payload package, that happens to have a greater payload capacity (2,900) than the Ram 2500, with the 5.7 engine (2,660) never mind the 1500 Ram!

Don't forget !
Consumer Reports, has chosen the 2014 Ram 1500 as its Top Pick in the pickup truck category.

@zviera - potent?
Got beat by a V6 in several shootouts and thanks for bringing up that shitty 5 speed Ram transmission.

"I made 1020 kms just on one single barrel."

A barrel of gas is 45 gallons. That would mean 14.1 mpg.

Brag that one up.

The 2013 Ram was tested at 21.7 (US) mpg in actual driving. That conversts to 26 mpg (Imperial).

Wow - 4 years newer Ram truck with 8 speed and air ride beat me by 1.5 mpg.

Keep em coming..... you are entertaining as hell to play with.

I'm bored in my office collecting my 300K, sucks to be you. LOL

I didn't pick your barrel. I picked fluid barrel 119L.
Your barrel is always bigger, like your gallon.

And don't forget.

Consumer Reports has chosen the 2014 Ram 1500 as its Top Pick in the pickup truck category.

@zviera - once again you omit or obfuscate. When one talks about a barrel of fuel the standard reference is 45 gallons Imperial.

24 mpg is decent but under what circumstances?

I await another vague description of a set of highly implossible circumstances.

CR threw FCA a bone since the Chevy scored higher but was too new to have any recent reliability data.

I think a barrel of crude is only 30 gallons. I'll check.

I'm sorry it's 35 imp gallons.

An oil barrel (abbreviated as bbl) is a unit of volume whose definition has not been universally standardized. In the United States and Canada, an oil barrel is defined as 42 US gallons, which is about 159 liters [8] or 35 imperial gallons,[9] and it can also be defined in those units, depending on the context. Oil companies that are listed on American stock exchanges typically report their production in terms of volume and use the units of bbl, Mbbl (one thousand barrels), or MMbbl (one million barrels).

Chrysler 545 RFE is one of the most reliable ones. At least it doesn't jiggle like ford 6 speed.

@zviera - it has a rep for reliability but not for being a rather good transmission.

@Big Al - thanks. Too much time spent on a Yankee blog ;)

What do you mean by that. Could you be more specific?

@zviera - Sure. Big Al and I were discussing the volume in a barrel of fuel.

Sandyman: You wanted to compare them alike, and I been saying that all along! But however, you buy a Ram 2500 6.4, and you get more payload then a same configuration (cab, 4 x2 or 4x4) Chevy! Just because you can't figure out how to see the Ram 6.4 ratings, it's not my problem. Ignorance is your issue. Get YOU HEAD out of your...

I never said the only differance was leaf springs, show me where I said that?

Seriously guys, this video says it all about the people at Consumer Reports. they are not even truck guys and are admittedly car guys. I stopped giving two schnits what CR autos says about trucks when they named the Avalanche the best truck. As they have even stated in this video, they like the best "car like" truck. If you want to hold that badge proud above your favorite brand of truck then by all means I will not stop you.

Go back to New York City nerds, and leave the real truck testing to the men.

@ALL1 - CR is good for reliability data. That is about it.

"best "car like" truck" - funny, that isn't the first magazine saying that about the Ram.

@ Mark Williams,

Big Al from Oz needs to be banned. Being extremely rude, going off-topic, and posting non sequitors is against the rules.

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