GM Petitions NHTSA to Avoid Recall

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GM has gone straight to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to make its case that a full-blown recall will not be necessary for some electrical gremlins that can cause the cruise control to turn off and indicator lights to flash in its newest pickup trucks.

According to Automotive News, more than 200,000 2014 Chevrolet Silverado 1500s and GMC Sierra 1500s built between Jan. 29 and Oct. 28, 2013, could be affected.

In its petition, GM says that the circumstances needed to trigger the problem are so small during normal operation that a full recall will not be necessary because it does not impact the safety of the existing pickups. Oddly, the glitch only occurs when a specific set of steering-wheel controls are used and accessed in a specific order. According to Automotive News, the anomaly has not been reported by any consumers, but was discovered in two pickups in test vehicle fleets.

Petitions to NHTSA are relatively common and are open to the public; this one is open for discussion until March 26. The government should rule on this issue by late spring.

2014-Chevrolet-Silverado-038 II

Manufacturer images


I have to agree with GM on this. GM has risk assessed the situation and if they aren't lying, which I don't think they are, It's not a safety concern.

Heads in the sand..

What is it that has to be done to make the problem appear? I can remember when I was a kid, and I found out through reading Mechanics Illustrated with the late great Tom McCall as their auto journalist, that in certain 1968 Chrysler full size New Yorker, Newport and Town & Country station wagons, remember them anyone? that you could get the radio to play without having the key in the car! just by turning on the four way flashers, (new at the time), putting the turn signals on in either left or right, and step on the brake, and turn on the radio! and the radio would come on! without even having the key in the car! I know, cause as soon as I read that in the magazine, I went out to my dads 68 Town&Country wagon, did what old Tom said to do, and the radio came on! and when I told my dad about it he just laughed and said he was wondering if I was going to try that!

Cue TRX Ram coils replace Crown Vic, Zviera, HemiV8. LOL

TTAC did an interesting piece on computer programing that goes into the software that goes into our vehicles.

Going to the lowest bid isn't always the best strategy.

@greg, ROT ROW! What was that about spending more time at the dealer for Recalls than logging miles on your brand new truck. LMFAO!

How about recalling that damn offset steering wheel....I drove one of these trucks as a loaner while my 11 Ecoboost F-150 was in body shop to have rear bumper replaced after a car slid into me, and I could not get comfortable worth a damn!!! Very irritating.

@DeverMike/Paul/Tom Lemon/Greg Baird/TRX4Tom/Dave/Hemi V8/Tom Terrific/sandman 4x4/lautenslager/zveria/Bob/US Truck Driver/Glenn/Jason/Hemi Rampage/smartest truck guy/Maxx/SuperDuty37/Ken/Ron/johnny doe/jim/ALL1/Frank/Idahoe Joe/The Guy/AD/Casey/papa jim/Young Guy/BeeBe/Steve/Chris/The truck guy/Alex/Mr Chow/Yessir/All Americans or whoever you want to call yourself.

Quit the crap, really.

It's getting long in the tooth.

You want to debate, but it has to be on your terms.

Learn to debate with good information, then we might be able to have a decent debate.

Opinions are good, but if they are only your view to support the UAW, then how good are they. Look at what you guys have done to Detroit.

Terror tactics (union tactics) don't work on me.

If PUTC wants the UAW or whatever to control this site I suppose it's their decision.

It's not kids like I've been told by PUTC.

They don't seem to care. So this will go on.

It is interesting how the vehicle manufacturers are having these issues with the 'gremlins' getting into their systems.

This isn't only a feature of GM. Chrysler also has had these issues. It comes down to inadequate design and testing procedures during the development phase.

I do know vehicle manufacturers are moving towards multiplexing. This will improve and reduce the risk of gremlins entering into a system.

But the main aim of multiplexing is to reduce electrical harness weights in vehicles. I've read that up to 15% of a vehicle weight can be attributed to electrical harnesses.

Multiplexing has been around since the 50s and 60s. The only problem is the components that require power will need to receive and transmits at differing frequencies. This can be done digitally.

But one of the problems as well is most physical signals sent are analogue. Why? Because most transmitters used measure with resistance. That is temperature, distance, pressure, etc.

These analogue signals must be sent to a processor we call a signal data converter. This converts the analogue signals into digital so they can be sent to a 'computer' to evaluate if the signals are greater or less than predetermined values.

Here an example, most accelerator pedals are 'fly by wire'. If you depress a throttle to a set position an analogue signal is sent, converted to digital to the engine management system.

Now the engine has to maintain emission levels, talk to the gearbox, etc. The engine management system which is interfaced with the transmission 'know' that you want to accelerate. But all of the signals to maintain what I spoke of above needs to be kept within the preset operating parameters preset in the engine management computer.

So just to accelerate multiple systems are interfaced and must work in conjunction to achieve what you want.

But, when maintenance is performed on these systems, they can be accessed via the 'cockpit' controls.

This is the case with this pickup. Somewhere in the system is a 'crossover' of signals that shouldn't be occurring.

Systems to manage vehicles is becoming more and more complex. Very similar to aircraft.

fatalfrom downunder! do not include me in your crap fest, or who ever you are! and as far a Detroit goes, yes the UAW can share some of the blame, but I believe it is the democrats that have more to blame than the rank and file! If the uaw has been soo bad, then what about the industry in your own Country? huh? there is no uaw there is there? and I hear the whole industry in Australia is going down the tubes! You really need to tone it down with the rhetoric of America! if it was not for the U.S.A. you and all your "blokes" would be speaking Japanese!

@Big Al, what's with your war on everybody here?

I think ALL1 is trying to find his bearing on the site. His position.

I really don't have a beef with him.

WTF? Are we going to destroy this site again.

Everyone? I'm sorry I don't have a war with anyone.

I was referring to the post above

"@DeverMike/Paul/Tom Lemon/Greg Baird/TRX4Tom/Dave/Hemi V8/Tom Terrific/sandman 4x4/lautenslager/zveria/Bob/US Truck Driver/Glenn/Jason/Hemi Rampage/smartest truck guy/Maxx/SuperDuty37/Ken/Ron/johnny doe/jim/ALL1/Frank/Idahoe Joe/The Guy/AD/Casey/papa jim/Young Guy/BeeBe/Steve/Chris/The truck guy/Alex/Mr Chow/Yessir/All Americans"

Is that somebody else hijacking your username?

Yes. It's been occurring all along.

As I've stated PUTC doesn't have adequate security.

I just ignore them.

But the comments between myself and ALL1, are kosher.

ALL1 doens't realise it he's just as argumentative as the myself and the other's he's debating.

If he wants to debate me, I'm fine by that.

Big Al from Oz: you did notice I did not say your real screen name right? that is why whoever it is I called fatalfrom down under!!!!!whoever it is needs to be stopped!

Trolls are at it again.

Yeah i wish there was better control on this website. The requirement of a unique user ID for starters. No guest posts. Banning certain IP addresses. I know we all want it. When Mark Williams? I have volunteered to help moderate, I am sure other regulars here would too.

I will say this. If Toyota lost its petition to not replace all the seat heaters when NOTHING is wrong with the vehicles only due to IF a fire broke out the fire would spread slightly faster and the GM twins actually have a problem then there should be no reason why they arent FORCED to fix it. I mean come on its actually causing the gauges to glitch and reset!!! why in the world would they NOT want to fix this???

@ Big Al From Oz

Show me where Greg Baird has been using your name name or anyone elses. I am Greg Baird. I use to go by Greg B. Some time back and have gone with FYI ever since. What ever issue you have with anyone else on this site, i assure you it has nothing to do with me. Stop throwing my name around or you WILL have a war with me.

Look Ford the ecoboost have a problem they don't want to do a recall$$$$

"General Motors has really taken it on the chin this week with the recall of over 1.3-million cars and a separate potential safety issue found in over 200,000 of its 2014 pickups. Things aren't getting any better, because now questions are being raised about the early sales success of its new trucks. Barclays Capital analyst Brian Johnson tells Automotive News, "the launch has been arguably the least successful large pickup launch over the last 15 years."

The more and more electronics and "programming" vehicles get, there more room there is for error. In the world of computers which we are all familiar with, we encounter bugs/glitches all the time in software and websites. I think that if we expect the cars we drive to magically be free from bugs and glitches, then we are dreaming.

The problem is that in cars and trucks if its computer encounters some type of bug, it's a much bigger deal than normal software. Someone's life might be at stake. What it all boils down to is that people expect and insist upon perfection in their car's computer system, yet it is impossible to have that as they computer is designed and programmed by human beings who are imperfect and prone to error. Really it's a lose-lose situation for everyone involved.

These articles always bring out the worst in people. i would love it if they just made the comments section like autoblog where you sign in and rate other comments positive or negative. It wouldn't fix all the problems, but it would help a lot. It really discourages bad comments when people downrate them.

Wow, I come into this thread and I am being talked about in multiple posts without even posting one comment in this article. Man, I guess I am just that good......j/k. I almost didn't catch it because I usually don't read the comments in the articles like these. I usually just read the article and move on. Although the comments were laughable and not worth commenting on so I will just move onto the topic.

I understand that every new vehicle out will have there issues and do not say a certain brand is altogether bad because of them. No manufacturer is immune to this and it would be like the pot calling the kettle black for calling either GM truck bad for something like this. I will argue specs, performance, capabilities, and the such. I stay away from stuff like this. Because it usually turns into a bunch of fan boys ragging on the trucks brand in the article even though it was their favorite truck brand in the previous weeks article with issues. Just one big circle jerk with nobody getting their rocks off. I have no doubts Ford will have some small issues like this with their new model next year so me ragging on GM for this would be a bit hypocritical.

@All1 - any publicity is good publicity ;)

These articles always bring out the worst in people.

Posted by: Beebe | Feb 28, 2014 10:51:43 PM

I definitely agree with you on that one. Sometimes I really wish PUTC would stick to the normal news articles and leave the recall stuck for the mainstream media. It is near impossible to have any kind of objective conversation when the topic is a recall.

The first thing I do every day when I get home from work is go to and look at the articles and read these crazy comments. This is entertainment at its best. Thanks Guys and keep it up.

@ Mark Williams,

Big Al from Oz needs to be banned. Being extremely rude, going off-topic, and posting non sequitors is against the rules.

Here's a interesting link on 3D printing of mechanical components.

The mechanical component in this link is a 3D manufactured combustor module for a small turbine engine.

Computers printing in 3D will offer better quality. These would reduce the chances of recalls as well.

A first year new model always has problems and they get sorted out the next year, Ford had problems on the Eco-Boost on the first year and the 6 speed transmission when it first came out in 2009,, I expect to see first year problems on the new Ram 1500 V6 Turbo-Diesel.
yea, I am jealous I admit it

I learn a lot from reading the PUTC site and comments, I impress my friends and even the dealers with the information I read on here, like this GM recall you would never find out anywhere else, not even the dealer knows about it!

YES recall storys should be shown. Its important news. I could agree with disabling the comments on recall stoys thought.

With the rate of today's recalls I'd let GM have a pass on this one. They can integrate it with the next recall a few months from now.

Makes you wonder if they will fix it for 2015.

GM is forced to fight this recall to save face and avoid even greater embarrassment to what has been called the least successful large pickup launch in the last 15 years.

The 2014 Silverado already has 3 recalls. This new issue would be the fourth recall, and with they pace they are on it won't be the last. The 2014 launch will probably have 6 or 7 recalls at the end of the day which will be another blow to the next gen truck launch.

"March 1, 2014 - 12:01 am ET
WASHINGTON -- Top General Motors executives are under intense pressure to explain why it took them a decade to order a fix for a faulty ignition switch that was used in 1.6 million Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn and Opel vehicles worldwide and is blamed for a string of accidents that killed 13 people."

Maybe I shouldn't mention this:

"Though the 2014 Chevrolet Silverado took home North American Truck/Utility of the Year at last month’s Detroit Auto Show, the large pickup and its brother, the GMC Sierra, have suffered from “the least successful large pickup launch over the last 15 years” according to Barclays Capital analyst Brian Johnson."

Chris & Lou - You brainwashed Ford fans are at it, again. Chevy makes the best truck, no doubt about it!! Ford is even just rated 3rd on Consumer Reports wake up!

The best thing Ford has is hype generated by its ads with the media eating it all up.

Sierra, CR was voted on by best car attributes. So if F-150 came in last that means it was the best truck.

@ Chris

CR autos is a joke when it comes to trucks. In all actuality, the 2014 F150 V8 is a recommended buy by CR along with the RAM and Tundra, but neither 2014 GM's aren't. If you had a subscription you would know this. Even with that said, they are still a joke on their truck autos side. They admittedly go for the most car like truck and bash the F150 for being a taller truck, and it's stiff "un-car-like" suspension that "gets better when towing or hauling". Essentially they are bashing it because it more tuck like among the rest.

Also, if you had a subscription you can see another area they gave it a score below the GM's was acceleration. They claimed that the Ecoboost crew cab goes from 0-60 in only 7.7 seconds while both the GM twins with a 5.3L does it in 7.5 seconds. This is kind of odd since every truck publication from Truck Trend to PUTC has the Ecoboost in the low 7s with the same truck configuration while both the GM twins in the mid to high 7s in the very same configuration. Odd that every other truck review site has it being faster isn't it...

In the reliability department, the F150 V8 and F150 V6 3.5L Ecoboost outscores the GM twins only because the GMs are new. The F150 V8 has a reliability of above average just like the Ram and Tundra while the F150 Ecoboost has an average score which keeps coming up every year since it's inception in 2011 due to charge air cooler issues that were fixed in 2013.

In the area that counts the most (I think) is owner satisfaction. This is where the people surveyed are asked if they would buy the truck again with the average being 68. They are....

Ford F-150 (3.5L EcoBoost, 2WD & 4WD) - 78
Ford F-150 (V8, 2WD & 4WD) - 78
Toyota Tundra (V8, 2WD & 4WD) - 77
Ram 1500 (V8, 4WD) - 72
Ford F-150 (V6, 2WD & 4WD) - 71
Toyota Tundra (V6) - 69
Chevrolet Silverado 1500 (V8, 4WD) - 68
GMC Sierra 1500 (V8, 4WD) - 68
Ram 1500 (V8, 2WD) - 68
Chevrolet Silverado 1500 (V6) - 68
GMC Sierra 1500 (V6) - 68
Chevrolet Silverado 1500 (V8, 2WD) - 65
GMC Sierra 1500 (V8, 2WD) - 65
Nissan Titan - 58

I will note that the Avalanche did score out at 80 on this test, but I don't consider that a half ton truck. That is just my opinion that may not be shared by others.

So, Chris, if you want to post what CR thinks then post the full story. To me, CR truck reviews are a joke and they hold no weight with me. Their reviews abut other things like toasters and TVs are usually spot on though, but that might be because they don't have the same nerdy clowns doing the truck reviews. Those guys have even admitted they are not truck guys which is why they have picked the Avalanche as the best truck multiple times since they started the "best truck" segment.

@ALL1 - I use CR for reliability data and satisfaction data. Those 2 factors tend to go hand in hand.

All1 - Chris not the one who posted that bit about Consumer Reports. It was Sierra. You owe an apology to Chris.


Oh you are right! I don't know how I overlooked that.

Sorry Chris, that was meant for Sierra.


Read my post above.

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