If Ram continue to make a steel 1/2 ton and concentrate on diesel it will.

But it needs to offer a decent payload, but yet most pickups are used as SUVs.

@ Al

I was shocked to see how low the Rams payload is. But they have been doing v done cool things. Gm cannot catch a break. Their latest headline has a brand new yukon out on a test ride go up in flames.

It will be interesting to see the sales figures to the EcoDiesel in the next 2-3 months. It will tell us if Ram will go to number 2 in the near future.

Ram will not get the second place...never. I own a 2012 ram express regular cab.
They make good looking trucks, they got good engines. But build quality is not there. Besides chevy- gmc cambo sells more than f-150

RAM is doing alot of things right.
I thought the GM twins were too conservitive on the restyle & powertrains.
I really thought they would step up to the plate.
Maybe thats all they had in the bag, don't know.
RAM for once has some of the best marketing going right now.
It also helps that it's just as good or better than the competetion in the real world.

@ian - nope. adding the GM twins they do not sell more than Ford. been that way for over 25 years, at least.

Ram will probably make some inroads. the payloads look low because I think those are the numbers for the coil rear spring (?). they quit messing with coil rear & go to something contractors & fleets will use then they would have a contender on their hands. But not sure how far the Diesel is going to take them, it's a pretty expensive option, fuel cost more & so does the maint. & you can't order anymore for '14, it got shut off.

x2 on the build quality, it's been a problem for some time.

The gm trucks are just to homely looking. The grills look like they were a after thought and the interior looks like a 90s Pontiac grand am. I still don't get the square fenders thing.

When you see a new one they don't look new .They look dated and old.The older fords look newer then the new gm's and the dodge is proubly the best looking truck out there until the new fords hit show rooms in September.

Gm is in a heap of trouble again The new corvette is awesome but the trucks are where they make the most money.I think gm should have spent more on the truck segment and less on the corvette.

the cabs on the new GM twins stink for room, esp in the back seat. I sat in a 13 & 14, the rear head & legroom was gutted.

& the people taking shots at aluminum need to pull their head out of their butt & look around, lots of vehicles these days use it. mostly commercial but it's there. Ram started using it in the suspension last year, didn't see the griping then!

I have seen Ram more innovative than GM/Chevy combined. It won't be long b4 Ram takes 2nd place.

I am not an expert, but I have been around trucks all my life and I have seen more Ram pickups being bought than GM/Chevy's where I am from.

Ford and Ram rule respectively where I am from.

The K2XX GM twins should've been the generation of the GMT900s. I doubt RAM will overtake both brands; it would probably jump GMC, but we'll see what happens. So far Chrysler has a good thing going.

As for the 2015 GMC Yukon fire incident, let's not forget the same happened to a Ram one time. Just an unbiased opinion. It's just a matter of getting the defects under control. I really hope GM will get past all this mess with the car ignitions slow truck sales and stuff.

GO BIG THREE!

Anybody ever thought that perhaps the reason why the Ram's payload numbers are so shockingly small is because they are already to the J2807 standard?

I can see Ram getting really close near the end of 2015. By that time the GM ignition debacle will have unfolded and GM's image will take a hit. Plus the fact that they had to be bailed out by the government, which still has a bad taste with some people.
It's one thing to be partners with a foreign company like Ram and Fiat are, but when you build cars that kill people, well it can only hurt sales at some point. I believe that, that is Rams only shot at over taking GM. GM has enough loyal repeat buyers that they will hang on to 2nd place over the long run.
IMO GM just doesn't bring enough of a wow factor to their trucks.
GM's 2015 HD trucks will get snuffed out when Ford brings their redesigned 2015's out. GM will always be playing catch up to Ford and Ram in the HD market. GM may outsell Ram but it's only because of Rams poor past build quality and GM's loyal buyers. No doubt that Ram builds the best HD truck right now, but it will take years to over come past faults.

I want a RAM truck so badly but I can't get by the quality bug-a-boo. I don't even know for sure it still true but they used to have some serious problems. Just can't pull the trigger.

@scrutineer - If Ram was really interested in the SAE J2807 standard they would have to increase cargo capacity especially in the higher end crewcab 4x4 models or drop tow ratings even further. A 10 - 15% tongue weight eats up most of your cargo capacity. A 9,600 tow rating means 960 - 1440 tongue weight. That is fine in a reg cab truck but you'll have to leave the family at home if you drive a crewcab.

Ram has a long way to go to catch Chevy. IIRC they do not have the production capacity to outgun them. Ram stated they moved away from fleets to more profitable private sales. That move has more to do with restricted capacity. When one can only build X amount of trucks why waste capacity building low profit margin fleet trucks?

Unless Ram spends a few billion somewhere building a new truck plant, they won't catch GMC.

If Canada is any indication Ram could possibly catch Ram (If they could find more capacity). Ram already handily outsells Chevy/GMC combined. Chevy took a 15% drop in sales and Sierra a 5% hit over the last month.

Several other sites have quoted various industry experts who have stated that the 2014 Silverado launch was botched. 2018 will be like an eternity for GMC while they work on producing the next gen truck.

GMC will continue to loose market share. Deep discounts will keep sales up but will eat profits.

I'm willing to bet that we will see some huge rebates if GMC sales continue to drop.

I have owned many RAM trucks. It's all I have owned. I have an 01 2500 diesel. My dad a 2012 1500 tradesman hemi. The problems with older dodges were steering parts electronics and those horrid dash boards. Also some say transmissions. I haven't had experience with the bad transmission part. The 2012 is the best quality for RAM ever. So I suppose 2010 and up.. its turns great, great power has a 90 gallon diesel tank in the box to fuel heavy equipment pulls tamden axel trailer. Its a work truck and it is good at it. The faults I have found. Seems to be made with very very thin metal and I'm pretty sure it was painted with water colors. Easy to scratch the paint. I think, think, chevy has better overall quality but ram has more WOW stuff. I do think ram and ford own the heavy duty segment and that will not change. Wish chevy would not have gotten out of the medium duty segment. Time will tell.

Yep GM is in a bit of trouble with the current trucks, hopefully they learn their lesson and bring out a better redesign, get rid of the horrible Bose stereo, and offer new powertrains in the heavy duty pickups.

Never forget who GM is building their trucks for (and Ford, and RAM).

The DEALERS are their customers. They live and die by making the dealers happy. The dealers know better than anyone else what customers are asking for, and how to keep customers happy.

Retail customers are the dealer's customers but it's the dealers that Detroit wants to please. RAM will need to build the dealer base if they really want to surpass the GM twins.

Chrysler, Dodge and RAM dealers really got hammered in the 2008 meltdown and the year that followed. Lots of dealers re-aligned or went out of the new car business altogether. They are still rebuilding.

@papa jim - good point. To gain market share one needs more dealers. You couple that with the need for increased capacity and Ram will not catch GMC any time soon.

@LouBC

As an example, the local Chrysler, Dodge Jeep dealer in my town had a bad reputation as recently as a couple of years ago.

They cleaned house. Fired/hired a lot of people. They spent a TON on advertising and getting their message out about the improvements.

It is a painful and expensive proposition to turn a business around like that. I really respect what they did.

Today that is a very competitive shop and the rest of the dealers in town are very aware of it. It might be different in a larger city, but in a small town everybody in the new car business knows.

Next time I buy a new truck they will get a visit from me to check it out.

"How long will it be before we see Ram in the No. 2 slot of our monthly sales chart? Clearly, some think it's just around the corner, but we're guessing if it ever comes at all, several other complicating issues will have to take place (like fuel price spikes, related recalls or incentive wars)."

With G.M. unfortunately with the recent Recalls and law suits over safety issues and congressional hearings. Are heading towards Toyota's fate. Then a fire today in the news on a test drive of a new suv it's not the press coverage that G.M. needs.

Now G.M. wants to stand firm on pricing and they are not the latest and greatest compared to their cross town rivals. It is not looking good in my opinion.

It's not a stretch of the imagination. Ram kicks GM A$$ in Canada and Mexico.

Yes, RAM could leapfrog Silverado this year. There are several reasons why RAM and Ford is gaining market share from GM.

The most important things is that RAM's 1500 has a diesel option, more effcient gas V6 and is cheaper. RAM HD's are way more capable then GM's. Finally, RAM offers chassis cabs while GM doesn't.

The styling of the Silverado/Sierra is on par with RAM and both look better then the F-150 now. The HD's of GM and RAM are much better looking then the Super Duty.

GM also sells +200.000 Sierras in the US. Not sure if RAM can offset the advantage they have over GM in Canada and Mexico.

As far as I'm concerned, only the Rams are truly half-ton trucks, boasting a load capacity of almost exactly 1,000 pounds after driver and one passenger. Nearly every other brand is downplaying their own models by calling them "half-ton" when they're 3/4-ton, 1-ton and even 2-ton models. This may actually be one reason they're seeing such an improvement in sales.

@George - Ram is supposed to be at max capacity producing pickups.
Chevrolet sold 124,741 MORE Silverado's than Ram in 2013.

If one adds Sierra to the list that is 309,130 more trucks than Ram.

Ram does not have the manufacturing capacity to catch Chevrolet let alone GMC.

GM's conservative approach does not bode well for the younger generation. People aren't afraid of trying new technologies anymore. In fact, the smartphone generation usually wants to be the early adopter.

The only thing i've found impressive from GM is the Chevy Volt. This is the tech they should be pushing into the trucks but no, they decide to use it in a slow two door caddy ELR that costs as much as a Tesla! If they think anyone under the age of 40 is going to choose the Cadillac ELR over a Tesla Model S then they have no clue whats going on anymore.

The new trucks are boring. That's all there is to it. Also, you'd think they'd get the hint that some of us don't like chrome. Wake up GM or you'll suffer the same fate as Blackberry.

I think The ATS and CTS look good, especially the V-power turbo 6 or whatever it's called. GM should have done the Duramax 4.5 V8 for the Tahoe, Suburban, 1500, and HD stucks. They would have had something nobody else did. Everyone has gas V8s in addition to other technologies.

@Roadwhale,

"I suppose we should have seen this coming.

Just over a month ago, the new Ram 1500 was declared to have the best fuel-economy numbers of any half-ton pickup when equipped with the new Pentastar V-6 and eight-speed transmission. (The HFE model, rated at 18/25 mpg city/highway, includes a rather pricey start/stop piece of engine technology.) The new Ram also boasted best-in-class towing among naturally aspirated V-6 engines, with a Ram-rated (read: not SAE's J2807 rating) 6,500 pounds.

At the State Fair of Texas, Ford has just announced — without so much as changing a bolt on the current regular cab 2013 F-150 4x2 with the 3.7-liter V-6 — that the previous tow rating of 6,100 pounds is now 6,700 pounds, 200 pounds more than the brand-new Ram 1500. (Remember our "magical spring dust" story some years back?)" LMAO

FORD HAS PLENTY OF MAGIC SPRING DUST!

V8 your LAUGHABLE ... HEMI MPG / PAYLOAD / TOWING is a JOKE ... real world exp. I work for BNSF . so I get to drive all 3 Brands . by far Ram is a JOKE ..... you come off to me as a billboard for FIAT . even TRX DOUCHBAG ..

@roadwhale

Isn't your mother calling you? Jeez.

The payload ratings (1/2, 3/4) have been around longer than you have. They are almost meaningless, just like your comment about RAM being the only half ton truck because they have the lowest capacity.

You aren't that dumb but you sure sound like it.

Ram is slowly taking over the pickup truck market, they are on the way up. Highest quality, best MPG, most power, best technology, etc....they will not stop, just keep getting better while others dork around with their crappy designs and gas guzzling engines.

And it doesn't help when every single week GM is recalling another 1 million vehicles. And when GM does a recall, it's not for a programming update or something minor...it's for major issues that lead to crashes, fires, and injuries. I think when you see that in the newspaper weekly you get a little worried about putting down cash on a new truck from them.

Also, their truck is priced higher than Ford and Ram.

Also, their truck is old and outdated already.

And finally, the junk they've built since 1987 still resonates with the middle-aged crowd and we just can't get past that. They'll have to prove that they finally put quality into their trucks by showing me...otherwise I'll never sit on the side of the highway in a Chevy again.

Ram has definitely done a lot of things right. I'm a ford guy, but damn all the innovation that ram has done with this truck is quite astounding. They are a legitimate threat to Chevy and Ford. I would really hate to see an Italian company #1 in truck sales though....

I hate the loud clatter of the Ram diesel with it's obnoxious sound and soot spewing tailpipes. Trucks sit so high that when they take off they blow smoke in a cars face. Most Rams are owned by cowboys who dip snuff and blow black smoke out their tailpipes.

I would like to know the general age and education level of the posters on this site. Sounds like a Junior High sleepover with most comments posted. Keep memorizing the sales brochures.

I think the ram boost in sales will end before it surpasses GM. I know multiple people that always drove chevy and ford trucks. In the last few years those people (myself included) bought a ram (or multiple rams) because it seemed so much improved. It took me about 60,000 miles to realize their quality is still struggling. Some of my farmer friends realized that sooner than I did and about half of them have already gone back to a ford or chevy. Most of them seem to be planning on a ford or chevy for their next truck. I'm just waiting to see the 2015 f-150 before I buy my next truck which will be a ford or chevy.

@Papa Jim: "The payload ratings (1/2, 3/4) have been around longer than you have. They are almost meaningless, just like your comment about RAM being the only half ton truck because they have the lowest capacity."

You don't know how long I've been around; but I forgive you for making assumptions.
More than 30 years ago, when I was looking for my first pickup truck I was told about the different ratings and their meaning. At the time, I was specifically told, "That weight rating does not include the driver and passengers. The more people you have in the cab, the less you can carry. Back then, half-ton meant 1,000#, 3/4-ton meant 1,500# and 1-ton meant 2,000# load.

Tow capacities differed as they do now based on engine/transmission combo and for the longest time an I6 with stick had a higher tow capacity than a V8 with auto. I know this has changed with the advances in technology, but for me the tow capacity is simply unimportant. I will probably NEVER tow more than 5,000# with a personal vehicle and my Jeep Wrangler is perfectly capable of towing the heaviest load I've ever towed with one at just under 3,000#. The most I've ever carried by weight came out well under 1,000#. On the other hand, the most I've carried by BULK is a completely different story as even now I carry a load that fills an 8-foot bed over the side-walls from front to back. I have no trouble with using a strap to keep the load from sliding out over a tailgate so I can get by with a shorter bed--as long as it's at least 6-feet of supported deck.

Yes, I actually need a truck, but not these ridiculous things Ford, GM and Ram are putting out by size. The old Dakota, Ranger and S-10 would comfortably meet my needs where these modern trucks are simply too large. However, since those smaller models are no longer available, the Colorado becomes pretty much my only choice unless I want to go Japanese.

@Hemi V8: While I agree with your assessment, you're attributing the comment to the wrong person. I personally believe that's exactly why that SAE's J2807 rating was created--to kill that pixie dust.

I don't buy all this build quality stuff everyone is spewing. I have had 2 ram/cummins that gave me lots of trouble free miles. I agree with some others that their earlier auto trannys needs some improvements. I have had all three in the past and all of them have had their issues. Especially the 2008 6.4 powerstroke. That thing ate exhaust sensors and radiators like crazy. To me Ford and Ram are the only choice in the HD market!

It's hard to comment on this type of article because of the inevitable brand wars that will take place. To me it boils down pretty simply though. We know Ram had been gaining market share, and we know the GM truck have had not so good sales. Since consumers are the ultimate decider of which truck will be the best seller, it makes sense to ask why consumers are not buying GM trucks. Obviously this can be attributed a lot of reasons, but ultimately GM needs to step up to the plate and make something more competitive.

I hate the loud clatter of the Ram diesel with it's obnoxious sound and soot spewing tailpipes. Trucks sit so high that when they take off they blow smoke in a cars face. Most Rams are owned by cowboys who dip snuff and blow black smoke out their tailpipes.

Posted by: GoFaster58 | Mar 25, 2014 7:51:49 AM

You must drive a Prius. Next time I am driving a diesel I will make sure to roll some coal on your car lol.

I keep hearing about this poor build quality of Ram trucks but I have never had a Ram that showed any of this supposed poor build quality.

My 1996 Ram was rock solid never an issue.
My 1998 Ram was rock solid never an issue.
My 2002 Ram was rock solid never an issue.
My 2005 Ram was rock solid never an issue.
My 2007 Ram was rock solid never an issue.
My current 2008 Ram is rock solid never an issue.

You also forgot to mention that Ford and Ram offer two class of trucks under the 4500 and 5500 series that GM does not have. They are counted under the F series and Ram name plate.

@roadwhale

What's too large about a Chevy, RAM or Ford 1/2 ton? In the truck world you cannot get much smaller.

The Asian style compacts don't really out perform the base model half ton trucks, so why have one?

The problem is that GM has way overpriced their trucks. I can get a Ram 1500 Big Horn with captains chairs for $41,120 MSRP, where as if you price out a similar GM truck with the 5.3L, an engine that isn't getting much better mileage, it costs into the Mid 40s before incentives.

With truck month, GM piled on incentives and you can now get one for $37k, But you can get the more powerful and more comfortable RAM for $38k with their incentives.

All these trucks have become way to pricey in the past few years, I endlessly lament that the Suburban is now a $50k vehicle in it's lowest trim package where as 4 years ago the truck was $44k. GM has just tacked on way to much to the price tag when people's incomes are not going up.

@Ram 4x4

No kidding you don't have an issue ever, you trade it in every two years. No confidence in its longevity? Seems to me you never keep it long enough to actually find out those trucks weren't "rock solid". Dodge has been making stride in the last few years to improve their quality but they are still lacking, no where near the days of yore though.

Personally I don't think they will ever pass Chevy, let along GM trucks. They are making great strides now but just like the housing markets things swing then return to normal. GM is hinting they have some stuff up their sleeves, building the longest lasting trucks on the road sells it self when others have to deal with multiple dealer trips.

The big recall wasn't even the trucks, so you can throw that out the window. Plus Dodge as pointd out doesn't have the capacity. They are doing some impressive stuff but it is stuff they need to do to make a dent in the game, when you are that far behind you have to wager your chips and put some skin in the game if you want to be reputable. I think they will get closer this year then start to fall off again as the GM HD's ramp up completely and the half tons introduce some new stuff.

Several reasons for this.

1) They haven't built a quality truck since the gmt400 platform of the 90's. Ever since, they've been plagued with poor interiors and serious body metal issues from corrosion to durability. When you go from Like A Rock to what they became, it's hard to get customers back. Their reputation here has taken a serious hit. They still haven't fixed their poor wax frame coating.

2) The trucks (Chevy's in particular) have been an eyesore since 2002. That ugly nose they stuck on in 2003 and then the whole mess of a new truck in 2007 have really damaged them. Chevy's are the ugly ducklings of the truck industry. They should have stayed looking like the Tahoe from 03-13.

3) No SFA on the HD's combined with the low slung frame has made Chevy 25/3500's pretty irrelevant. They owned the segment in the 60's,70's & 80's. They really screwed up dropping the frame low and tying in torsion bars instead in the 90's.

4) I keep hearing this 'too conservative' stuff. Complete nonsense. You guys call this big monster flat front end and huge square bulges on the sides conservative??? No, what's conservative is what Ford and Dodge are doing. Clean lines, round wheel openings, no stupid looking fender bulges etc. The last Conservative Looking truck that wore a Chevrolet badge was in 2002. The last Conservative line of Chevrolet trucks was the gmt400's. The last decade they've looked like Cartoons with their goofy front ends and side bulges. The word here is Cartoon, not conservative.

5) They don't even market Chevrolet's. They had some ridiculous cowboy commercial at launch and then nada. They push GMC to no end though. You still can't get all of the options and interiors in a Chevy that you can get in a Ford or Dodge. May as well add Toyota and Nissan to the list. None of it makes any sense.

@greg - you don't keep them long enough to have any!!! keep one longer than 2-3 yr avg. rust, rust, & um yeah, rust. tranny problems, burned thru shifter cables, split dashes. when they started making the 13s not even half of the factory output was passing qc, they had to shut production down - morale issues with the workers. People can complain / make excuses all they want about the sales numbers or try to make it look different all they want. GMs idled plants. Ford has had to add shifts & hire. Dearborn Truck Plant rolls a new F150 off the line every 58 seconds. 2 shifts, 20 hrs a day, 6 days a week. So does Kansas City (which I think is now actually 3 shifts, so they are now running around the clock). SD production is moving to a new facility because it's expanding too. GM couldn't run from the medium duty market fast enough. subtract those sales even & the Fords still outsold.

Ram is in a good position to make some inroads & the cummins has been a good engine. but the truck needs to last longer than a few years without rotting out or falling apart. seen way too many do that round here in the salt belt. they also need an actual work truck contractors can afford. the price is sky high once you add anything to the thing. GM is the same way. dump the coil spring, change that stupid rotary shifter & put in select shift for towing & stamp some better metal, then you might get somewhere.

@kmac1036

The GM twins outsold Ford something like 8 out of 10 years between 2000-2010.

@Chris

Here's a study by USA today
NAMEPLATE RANKING
Problems per 100 2010 vehicles, average for all models:

• Lexus 71
• Porsche 94
• Lincoln 112
• Toyota 112
• Mercedes-Benz 115
• Buick 118
• Honda 119
• Acura 120
• Ram 122
• Suzuki 122
• Mazda 124
• Chevrolet 125

INDUSTRY AVERAGE 128

• Ford 127
• Cadillac 128
• Subaru 132
• BMW 133
• GMC 134
• Scion 135
• Nissan 137
• Infiniti 137
• Kia 140
• Hyundai 141
• Audi 147
• Volvo 149
• Mini 150
• Chrysler 153
• Jaguar 164
• Volkswagen 174
• Jeep 178
• Mitsubishi 178

This was in 2010. So i would say build quality is much better than you realize. I wouldnt go pointing fingers to do research to anyone!

@kmac1036 true story too

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/04/17/the-silverado-and-sierra-have-topped-the-f-series.aspx#.UsdNUv-A3IU

The Chevy 1500 even outsold the f150 in 2008

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/01/fseries-trucks-pickup-market-share-silverado-leads-lightduty-sales.html

Here are some of the reasons i will not buy the current GM trucks, my first two trucks where GM, and i dont see any benifits in their new design.

Too much chrome on the Chevy, When ford and Ram offer multiple pakages without chrome or with less chrome , that appeals to many buyers. The Fx and Sport Trims seem to be very common and the wester trims King Ranch and Longhorn typicaly come with painted bumpers and some chrome in the grill. the High Country has way too much chrome.

No z71on High County or denali, for offers the Off Road Pkg on xlt, lariat and King Ranch which are mechanicaly identical to the Fx4, which will revert to an option pkg on those trims in 2015.

No rear seat A/C vents with the center consel, when 2000 silvarado LS has rear air vents in the center consel it helps getting cold air to the back seats without freezing out the front passengers, every other pickup truck has this as an option.

Windsheild washer nozel on the wiper arms, this is terible if you live in a cold climate, i have had the fluid in the nozel freeze up and was forced to drive my truck with the defroster set to max heat to keep the fluid thawed, and i was using the cold weather fromula , its not enjoyable to cook your self to be able to keep your windows clear. the other brands put their fluid nozes over their engines ensuring that the fluid doesnt freeze

off centerd steering wheel on vehicles with left hand transfer case controls, this makes driving uncomportable on long trips, i dont know about you but my arms are the same length, putting the 4x4 controls on that side is abnoxoius as well concidering that all the other makers put them on the right including the GMT 400s with autotrack, and GMT 900s with the bench seat.

Changing around their trim levels, this is more of a pet peve than anything else but on a Ford you know what xl, xlt, lariate, and king Ranch mean, they have been using those designations for a long time, in 2004 ten years ago, GM had Base, LS, and LT (also the SS) base was your work truck, LS was your mid-level truck with cloth or leather that may or may not have power seatsdepending on options selected, and LT was leather with power and heated seats flow through consel etc. THen they ajusted the trim levels down , this causes some buyer confusion because when they used to show for an LT people where now shoping for an LTZ which should have been made a higher end trim level, this become s more confusing when you cross shop a silvarado with an suburban or an avalnche whose LS and LT designations remain the same and LTZ is highend trim.

GMs limited offering in customer options at the high end is what is hurting them, Ford and Ram offer several high end trims where the only difrence is the colors of the interior and the general theme of the truck, F150 FX4 luxary, lariat, king ranch , platnium and limited can all be optiond very similarly and cost about the same but they look diffrent inside and out , and the costs are minimal to change colors and the diffrent ingection molded plastic grills.

GM doesnt listen to its customers or deliver them a producut that many people want, until they start survying people who bought their rivals products on what sold them on an RAM, F-150, Tundra or Titan they will never get their trucks right.