Will Ram Leapfrog Chevy? Some Say Yes

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With March sales numbers just around the corner, some are speculating how long it will take for Ram, which has been on a huge sales climb recently, to overtake the Chevrolet Silverado or, possibly, the GM twins (Chevy and the GMC Sierra combined).

According to Automotive News, although the Silverado still has a big lead over the Ram brand, the gap is closing and the momentum swing is clearly in favor of Ram. In fact, according to the most recent look at market-share numbers, only Ram and Ford are building, while both GMC and Chevrolet struggling.

Some experts say the key factor to the existing situation is that Ram is much more aggressive about offering class-unique features (i.e., MegaCab, RamBox, coil springs, eight-speed transmission, air suspension, EcoDiesel, etc.), while others say that GM engineers took a more conservative approach with the redesign for 2014 models, making it more evolutionary than revolutionary.

What Automotive News does not reference, and partially assumes, is that sales and market share are centered on the half-ton pickup-truck segment. Admittedly, most of the vehicles sold by these brands are half-ton trucks, but heavy-duty pickups, depending on the maker, typically account for one-third of total sales. This could explain why GM lost some sales momentum during the last several months, but now that its 2015 HD pickups (with numerous interior and exterior changes — not to mention a much better/smarter exhaust brake) are in full delivery mode to dealers, they could provide some much-needed sales energy.

It's also worth noting that all the truckmakers are now offering strong incentives on their half-ton trucks, with GM creating a special monthlong incentive package: March Truck Month.

How long will it be before we see Ram in the No. 2 slot of our monthly sales chart? Clearly, some think it's just around the corner, but we're guessing if it ever comes at all, several other complicating issues will have to take place (like fuel price spikes, related recalls or incentive wars). Still, with a pair of new midsize trucks coming from GM later this year (the Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon), it seems reasonable to assume that some additional GM loss in half-ton market share could occur. However, that's likely to happen only in the more entry-level Silverado categories, with the more popular V-8, higher trim packages still garnering premium pricing and profit margins.

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@Ram 4x4: The problem with your argument is that you traded trucks every 2 to 3 years, you didn't keep any one of them long enough to know their long-term reliability. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you are hardly a prime example of correctness. Try keeping one for 6 to 8 years or more and then say the same thing--if you can.

@Papa Jim: How many times to I have to tell you that a half-ton truck simply doesn't NEED "performance"? It's supposed to carry roughly 1,000# and you simply don't need something nearly 7-feet tall, 7-feet wide and 20-feet long to carry that light of a load, even if it is bulky. You don't even need something that big to carry 1,500#--especially when the bed is hardly 6-feet long. Sure, you might want "performance" when you're pulling a heavy trailer, but then you don't really need a bed on that, do you?

You want "performance"? Take an S-10 and stick that 4.6L V6 under the hood and it will probably run away from the full-sized truck with the same engine AND get better gas mileage. Why? Because it weighs 2,000# less and can still carry 1,000# of cargo--plus driver and one passenger. Sure, it won't have the frame to tow anything over 6,000#, but it would give a true half-ton a run for its money.

The data you posted is miss-leading you dont have dodge listed, and this was right after RAM was spun off as its own brand while both Chevy and Ford still had some lower quality cars still on their books that bring their numbers down, when you look at chrysler as a whole the numbers are very bad. Jeep is at 178, chrysler is 153, when Ram and Ford have only 5 problems diffrent per 100 vehicles its not that significcant when their trucks are lumped in there with cars.

As an owner of a 2012 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi & comming form my last two F-150's all I can say is Wow about the Hemi Power compared to the two 5.4 3v's that I came from!

Same old Lou talking smack about payload, hey Lou, it's even recommended that you use a weight distribution hitch on a Ford. Have you ever heard of it, much less seen one? But then, I still see your kind driving down the road in an F-150 towing heavy and not using a hitch. Use a good weight distributing hitch, it takes 25% of the tow vehicle. BTW, it's not 10-15% tongue weight, it's 9-15%.

The coils did not lower the payload, as I have stated many times. Go look at a 2008 Ram quad cab, you will see the GVWR is 6700 quad 4x4 and 6800 quad cab long bed, same GVWR as current Ram crew cabs, and in 2012 or 2013 the quad Ram raised the GVWR from 6700 to 6800, it's the same wheelbase as the crew, so why not?

The truck gained weight since that 6800 pound GVWR was come up with. Airbags in seats, side curtain airbags, more options (Ram boxs are close to 150 pounds) air suspension, about 100 pounds, big screen navigation, heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheels, dvd players in Laramies, was a sunroof even an option in Rams in 2008?

What made it worse is the fact that a long time ago they never upped the GVWR to factor in 200-225 pounds of drivetrain on a 4x4. So you went to a 4x4, and you are 175-225 pounds loss of payload compared to other manufactures increased GVWR for 4x4.

Because the extra driveline weight on a 4x4 all sits on the front axle, now the rear of the truck is rated to carry less. In 4x2 form, that 200 or so pounds is now more payload.

The 4x2 v-6s are competitive with Ford and Chevy, well unless you get the Ford max payload, so you can bounce around. Funny we didn't see an offroad test on the last shootout, right? Mark knew Ford would bounce around.

Going to an aluminum hemi block would help, and they actually sell crate aluminum hemis.

Lower control arms were aluminum on as early as 2010 Rams. Chevy uses an aluminum lower and upper.

The big deal will be cost of the Ford aluminum truck, then insurance. But they already have been dropping the most money to make a deal lately.

I totally agree they can stand to raise the 4x4 Ram GVWR to 7100 or so pounds. This might need different axles. Currently it's 6800 Hemi, and 6,950 diesel. With the diesel said to be less then 100 pounds extra weight, it should have a better payload. But of course we get Lou lost in BC trying to make everybody think all diesel 1500s have a 800 pound payload, so it miss leads people like Robert Ryan or Big Al into thinking ALL Rams diesel 1500 payloads are that way. Some are near 1500 or 1600, if you don't get the luxory stuff and crew cab. But that will never be enough for some folks that are too cheap for weight distribution hitches, or they or their family are on the heavy side. Or those that should just get a 2500. Or buy a bouncy product from another brand.

As for quality, my 2010 had a battery that didn't make it 3 years, but that could be the same battery that goes in Chevy, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, or GMC. (See Lou, GMC is a BRAND, GM is both GMC and Chevy. I bitched the tow haul kept it in a lower gear after cresting a hill, but I guess that's tow haul for you, it doesn't see the road and realize there is no need to keep it in that lower gear. The trans never slipped on me. Those were my few issues.

My 2006 Chevy? Poor fit and finish on the headliner, they stuck in a new one, it sucked as much as the first. I was STUCK WITH IT. I noticed the same thing on my friends 2003 double cab Chevy after looking after I bought mine. I guess the fact his made a lot of wind noise from the back wrong way door, should have made me think what mine would end up as. Mine made noise, not as bad as his. I busted a cab to frame mount bushing, without taking the truck offroad. Great. Made a 1800 mile trip on all highway to Colorado, come home with a popping noise in the floor when turning right. They messed up the paint (two tone) my fault for not noticing..sharp edge on top of bed, cut my hand. Truck leaned to left after putting 440 pounds in it. Transmission made clunking sound on 1 to 2 shift, low speed. Deal with it. Tachometer made gring noise. Seats looked to show wear after only 24K miles (when I got rid of it)
Interior plastic put in wrong and forced into place, as seen by the dis coloration spots you see when stressed. possibly the guys working on the headliner. Made a racket. If they had put the torsion bar in the pivot point, it would have rode better, but Chevy designed it to not only twist as it should, but bend. Same stuff used on concrete pounding HD Chevys.

As for my friend with the 2003, he traded into a 2010 Tundra and we don't miss our Chevys.

Good gas mileage at the time, only because Chevy slowed down the 5.3 aluminum block with 3.42 gears, and Good year Wrangler ST tires. Sucked on hills, drive couldn't get it, 3rd wasn't enough oomph, 2nd gear was serious rpm. Old 4 speeds+ not enough torque.

@Roadwhale, Vulpine, Mr Chow, and your 4th name on here: I have a 1987 Ram D-250 (that's a 4x2 regular cab) It's GVWR is 7500 pounds. So since it only weighs 4100 or so, I guess by your terms I have more then a 1.5 ton truck?


Having owned an S10, I can tell you for sure that dropping a 4.6 (Ford? Toyota?) between the ball joints in that truck will be a trick.

Since the 4.3 was a factory option for almost 15 years, you can be sure that a Chevy small block 350 V8 will fit, but I would bet real money that the Toyota is too wide. Never tried the Ford 4.6

I'm also going to propose that towing capacity and payload are calculated using more than simple figures for springs and horsepower. The ability to get it all to STOP or STEER when you need to is a big deal too.

For a lot less cost and trouble, just go out and find a ten year old F150 or GM 1500 and it will give you all you need without the headache of trying to squeeze the V8 into the S10. The old V8 truck will give you years more great service.


Ram is its own division. It reported problems per 100 vehicles. Funny y'all ask for statistics and when that's given you spin it the way you want it. Dodge is catching GM, fact!

@Papa Jim: And yet again you try to distract from the argument. The simple point is that today's V6 is more powerful than yesterday's small-block V8. Put it in a smaller truck and you'll get the SAME performance as that older V8 with better economy.

I am sorry some of you feel the need to attack me just because none of My Ram pickups have had any troubles that you none Ram owners like to claim.

I do not trade ever two years either, I put miles on my vehicles. I do love how you cherry picked the trades, but you left out the 1998 to 2002 and the 2002 to 2005 and least we not forget how you completely ignored the 2008 to present that I still have and won't be replacing until 2016 at the soonest making that truck 8 years old by that time.

Try again GM fan boys.


S10 V8 conversion. So, which one?

The Toyota 4.6 or the Ford. Please post some photos so we can see it when you're finished--or when it finishes with you.

Umm, 1st paragraph: if Ram beats Chevy & GM combined, then it will also beat Ford by default. GM sells more trucks than Ford, contrary to popular belief.

I think Roadwhale made a typo, he meant a 4.3 Chevy. Nice idea...BUT, an S-10 is not a very wide bed, and is a three teenager /two adult truck unless you get a little crew cab, that has nowhere near todays comforts.

An old S-10 will also crumble in a wreck, make more road noise, brakes aren't that good. Of course you could care less about being in a wreck.

As for this talk of Ram 4x4 having a truck for not very long, I'm glad I only drove 25K in my Chevy, in a year, as much broke on it, and I barely worked it.

TRX 4 Tom

The S10 crew was one of the worst trucks ever for customer satisfaction. GM had a horrible idea.

The last generation Dakota would make Roadwhale, Vulpine, Mr Chow happy AND it was available with a V8.

@ brandon507 - those numbers are deceptive. If one looks specifically at JD Power Rankings per individual segment (NOT BADGE) Ram does not have a single pickup in the top 3. JD Power Dependability since 2010 has had Tundra, F150, GMC HD and LD, and even the Avalanche in the Top 3.
The 2014 stats had GMC HD, LD, Avalanche in the Top 3 with F150 at 4. The Tundra was 5th.
In 2013 it was Tundra and HD Chevy with F150 4th.
2012 Tundra and Tundra in the top 3.
2011 Tundra and F150 in Top 3.

Ram has NEVER had a top 3 JD Power Pickup.

Vincentric rates pickups for fleet and personal. In 2013 the Ram HD got the nod over Chevy for personal use but Chevy was 1st for fleet. F150 was 1st pick for fleet and personal.

Current HD stats by JD Power put Chevy HD at #1, Ford #2, and Ram #3.

@TRX-Tom - bwahahahahaahaaa. Dude, relax or you'll pop an aneurism.

BTW - I know that anything at or over 5K recommends an equalizer hitch and is there a big difference between 9% or 10% tongue weight? Most use 10-15%.

wow - 9% okay, yup, Ram needs all the help it can get.

opps, meant 2012 Tundra and F150 in the top 3

@Douggy - it has been close to 10 years since GMC beat Ford with combined pickup sales. Even if you add up Avalanche/Cadillac, Colorado/Canyon, Sierra and Silverado - it doesn't pass Frod in the last few years.

GMC is facing a few new civil suits over the ignition switch and new findings show that GMC and Delphi knew about it and quitly changed the switch.

That will hurt sales.

Still, unless GMC completely melts down, Ram will not pass them any time soon.

Sergio said he would NOT build a new factory in North America...........

@Roadwhale i decided to read your little blog and would like to point out some falicies on pay load, you talk about how we could all do better with a smaller truck i beg to differ
Some of us need to be able to fit 3 adult men in the back seat of a truck , you cannot do that in a mid-size truck, also some people fill up the bed based on volume , not on payload. your payload calculations are off, as the current payload calculations are for occupants and cargo so an f150 crew cab 5.5 ft. box eco boost 3.73 has a 1900lb payload, now you take me 225lbs, my brothers 195lbs, 205lbs, and 217lbs, and my dad 189lbs and put us all in the truck. that’s 1031lbs of people that leave only 869lbs for cargo and trailer tongue weight. i know the bags we take with our ski cloths helmets and boots weigh in around 45lbs each that 225 and we race so we'd each bring about 4 skis at 20-30lbs each so that another 500lbs so we are now at 725lbs of cargo with the payload in the truck being 1756lbs of the max of 1900 lbs. in that scenario we use all of the bed and all of the cabin, and that is the type of thing that many truck owners do with their trucks. As there is no other vehicle that can accomplish this task but a long wheel base truck based SUV like an suburban or expedition EL which typically cost 20k more for a 4x4 model with comparable options. I keep a cover on my bed to protect what im transporting from theft and the elements. you can argue that i need my truck for my lifestyle but then again so do you as you use it to only haul tables to charity events which is your choice. as to the size of current vehicles i think your way off base in calling vehicles road whales so i have compiled specs on alot of diffrent vehicles to show you the error of your ways.

F150 Crew 4x4 5.5 ft box
Length 231.9”
Width mirrors out 97” folded 83.5” no mirrors 79.2”
Height 76.7”= 6’4.7”

Tacoma 4x4 double cab 5 ft bed
Length 208.1”
Width 74.6”
Height 70.1” =5’10.1”

Frontier PRO-4X Crew Cab 5ft bed
Length 205.5”
Width w/o mirrors 72.8”
Height 70.1”

1990 F150 regular cab long bed 2wd
Length 210”
Width 79”
Height 70”

2014 F150 regular cab long bed 2wd
Length 231.8”
Width 79.2”
Height 75.6”

2014 Chevy 1500 1WT regular cab long bed 2wd
Length 224.4”
Width 80”
Height 73.5in

2012 GMC Canyon SLT crew 4x4
Length 207.10"
width 68.6"
Hieght 67.9"

VW Passat
length 191.6
Width 72.2 in
Height 58 in

all of these are vehicles without mirrors and data comes from MSM autos except the 2014 F150 Crewcab. folded out an F150 would need 8’1” opening to clear most tandem garages are 16’ wide at the opening. in you blog you stated that some one complained to you about the canyon being 84" wide which is wider than the F150 and the silvarado. the last canyon was narrower than a VW passat addtionaly even if it is as wide as the current tacoma at 74.6" and is still 6" too wide then they will not fit a Passat that is 2.4 in narrower in the same garage. with the standard garage door being 8ft wide an f150 with mirros folded in would be able to get in and out with ease. In your blog you say your wife is 6' tall and say that there is plenty of extra room, and it really comes down to how your body is proprtioned I am 6' tall and have the seat as low as it can go in my 2010 f150 and only have 3in of head room with my seat reclined, if i sat straight up id hit the roof on the truck . also i call bs on the comment about the hood of an f150 coming up to her chin, where the hood meets the windshield on my raptor comes up to my chest. you also say that crew cabs have 4' beds the smallest is a 5.5ft bed on a half ton which still has plenty of volume for most people and 6.5ft beds are availble for people who need more room. You continualy talk about how big trucks have become when they really havent grown much they have become longer and taller slightly for three reasons crash test rating , roomier cabs and fuel eficency, the noses on the trucks where made longer to include crumple zones to make them safer to drive, addtioanly the regular cab 150s where made longer so taller people could comfortly and safely drive them (now the y conduct roof cruch tests that measure sternght and deflection, also the windshield and nose where raked more to increase aero dynamics of the truck stronger springs where used so the truck doesnt sag much under weight but 5in in height and 1'9" is a relitivley small price to pay for increased safety and fuel economy, and capabilities of the vehicle.

After numerous automotive writers test these trucks,in comparisons,we will have a better idea of who has the best design.Also I imagine SAE will publish there results as well.I did see this coming with pricing pressure put on GM from the on start in 2013-2014.Ford is currently discounting 10,000 easily off stickers and Ram also with up to 7000.00 in a combine dealer and manufacture discounting. GM conference call with Barkley's show's it all they are holding back on discounts to get the maximum pricing per unit on each truck the mere inventory supply levels reflects that and the only discounting is on the trucks V6's.A recent shake up in upper management at Chevy was all to late the damage had been done,never in GM history has a truck launch gone so badly. They loss share instead of typically gaining share.This story is still un folding as we speak.What surprise me also was Ford's 2015 F350 low tow rating for the redesign 2015 F-350,set at 26,500 (5TH wheel), I believe now that Ford has finally conceded the tow rating wars to Ram 3500 in the 1 ton market. Shedding 700lbs off a 2015 Ford F150 is just about what they are going to need to hold 11,000 tow rating for the 2015 model.I feel that Toyota and Ram and GM have already set there J2807 ratings for 2014 and into 2015, I doubt it will go any lower.We will see.

@ lou bc

So, since Ram won truck of the year back to back (which is the 1st) from motor trend. Does that mean Ram is the best all time? I mean they would have to be since motor trend stated they were right?

Ram has had more innovations in the last couple of years than its competitors. So im sure they have some kinks to figure out. However, we still have the comments that the doors will fall off in 30,000 miles. Point is, is that this is not your grand daddys old dodge. And GM better get on it or they will be in third!

The old argument of combining gm twin sales goes on and on. Gm doesn't even combine them because they are 2 different names and why does anyone need 2 different trucks to start with. Might as well of combined Camaro and firebird sales. Same underneath but skinned differently by 2 different divisions. Just won't hold air man!

Marchionne has improved the quality of the Grand Cherokee(Not really Wrangler or the very dated 300C) in Australia, so it is not surprising same thing is happening with the RAM branding in North America.

The fines and lawsuits alone coming at GM will cripple GM and cost them on the innovation, development side.
How bad are sales at GM? Look at the thousands off on vehicles, not just trucks. new caddy for $319 a month 0 down 0 first, 0 security... bad sales that's why! Gm will be back in foreclosure before the decade is out.

@Robert Ryan
Fiat/Chrysler has improved the Grand Cherokee quality. But I think it will come at a cost.

It seems the US manufactures vehicles like the Wrangler to a price point or they just can't sell them. This has been caused by decades of producing low quality vehicles at a cheap price.

Chrysler has entered the Australian market with cheap and cheerful cars on par with the Korean cars of a decade ago. This formula will not work forever as the average Australian vehicle buyer is expecting more, we are a harder and more discerning at purchasing a vehicle than our US counterpart.

If the Chinese can produce cars on par with US quality within a few years you will see the US vehicles displaced for a car at half the price.

The Grand Cherokee had to improve in quality as Chrysler is trying to sell them as an alternative to a Japanese or European SUV.

As for the Wrangler, it's not viewed much better than a Mahindra by the hardened off roader. The only thing that makes them sell in Australia is the same train of thought that's moving Can Hardly Davidsons out of bike shops. Image. That's one thing that has made Jeep sort of successful.

They are less reliable than other 4x4s and don't drive well on the highway or roads.

Even those CUV Jeep things are nowhere's as good as the Euro or Asian vehicle for quality. They are selling because of the bling offered. That is the same tactic used by the Chinese vehicle retailers as well.

@ brandon507 - data without context is useless just like data without corroboration is useless.
Awards from car magazines without clear identifiable test criteria is also useless.

Ram has improved and Ram is definitely charting their own unique path in the truck world.

Unfortunately, when has to contend with crap posted by yahoo's and hemiv8's, one has a tendency to push back hard.

Ram does not meet the threshold of documented reliability that I am comfortable with.

That does not mean there are consumers who find them problematic. One will experience mechanical failures with any machine.

There is only a 9% difference between the best and the worse on your post. The difference between Ford and Ram is 2%. Your information is based on badge average. What else is underthe Ram banner? HD's, 1/2 tons, and vans.

Corporate averages are good for observing trends. Those trends are meaningful if tied to new releases and age of corporate fleets. They always tend to improve with old fleets and drop with newer fleets.

Individual vehicle data is more important but when a company releases a new vehicle, prior data is useless because it cannot be applied to the new vehicle.

I cannot take reliability data from the 2010 F150 with 5.4 and 4.6 and apply it to the EB3.5 or 5.0. Same can be said for the 2013 Chevy 4.3, 5,3, and 6.2. The 2014 engines are different so there is no correlation.

Any new vehicle purchase involves a gamble but good gamblers play the odds. The odds are better in the case of a vehicle purchase if one picks a vehicle closer to the end of its model run and has good durability ratings.

Oh goody! Someone that actually is trying to make sense! Thank you for responding, Caroloskis. Now for the discussion:

First off, I appreciate your comment of, "Some of us need to be able to fit 3 adult men in the back seat of a truck , you cannot do that in a mid-size truck..." I agree--SOME do, but not so many that every bloomin' truck on the road has to fit them. The vast majority of crew-cab trucks I see here in the NEC have one or maybe two adults in them, total. If anyone/thing is in the back seat at all it's either kids or dogs.

Second, "your payload calculations are off, as the current payload calculations are for occupants and cargo so an f150 crew cab 5.5 ft. box eco boost 3.73 has a 1900lb payload, now you take me 225lbs, my brothers 195lbs, 205lbs, and 217lbs, and my dad 189lbs and put us all in the truck. that’s 1031lbs of people that leave only 869lbs for cargo and trailer tongue weight." Again, that's the exception, not the rule. The rule of thumb when SAE testing or even just the general salesperson is discussing a pickup, they base it on two 175# persons, or at most 2 200# persons. A truck with a 1900# difference between curb weight and GVWR gives you 1500 pounds of payload. In my own case, me, my wife and my dog come out to right at 500 pounds between us which means I would have 1400 pounds of payload which is still a 3/4-ton rating. I am quite aware that trucks are advertised sans driver/passenger now, but that wasn't always true. It also works to deceive the buyer into thinking they're getting more truck than they really are because of it.

Now, about those sizes...

F150 Crew 4x4 5.5 ft box
Length 231.9” -- *19.25 feet*
Width mirrors out 97” folded 83.5” no mirrors 79.2" -- *8.08 feet/6.96 feet/6.6 feet*
Height 76.7”= 6’4.7”
*All in all sounds pretty close to the numbers I marked to me. And to me that 5.5-foot bed is laughable. Put the 6.5' bed on it and you're at 20.25 feet. Or, take it down from crew cab to extended cab with the 6.5 and you stay under 20 feet.

Tacoma 4x4 double cab 5 ft bed
Length 208.1” -- *17.34 feet, a full two feet shorter for a crew cab.*
Width 74.6” -- *6.22 feet*
Height 70.1” =5’10.1”
*I still hate the ridiculously short bed. It's still shorter than my regular-cab/long bed which measures 18 feet. Again, cut the cab down and extend the bed and I'd be much happier.with the Tacoma. The rest of the dimensions are more reasonable--but still larger than they need to be for a "mid-size".

Frontier PRO-4X Crew Cab 5ft bed
Length 205.5” -- *17.125 feet*
Width w/o mirrors 72.8” -- *6.07 feet*
Height 70.1” -- *5.84 feet*
Better, but not by much and again the bed's too short.

1990 F150 regular cab long bed 2wd
Length 210” -- *17.5 feet. Accepted*
Width 79” -- *6.58 feet. Accepted*
Height 70” -- *5.83 feet. Accepted*
*The front bumper of this rig is right at the sidewalk curb of my parking area and the rear bumper is right at the street gutter; it barely fits. Yes, I can carry those 8-foot tables with the tailgate closed, but the thing is still much bigger than I like. A 6-foot bed and an extended cab would make this truck about a foot shorter in length, but it's still too wide and too tall--for a 2WD. I climb higher into the seat of this truck than I do into the seat of my JK Wrangler!

2014 F150 regular cab long bed 2wd
Length 231.8” *19.32 feet* Almost 2 full feet longer than my 1990.
Width 79.2” *6.6 feet* Fractionally wider. Insignificant.
Height 75.6” *6.3 feet* Half a foot taller.

2014 Chevy 1500 1WT regular cab long bed 2wd
Length 224.4” -- *18.7 feet*
Width 80” -- *6.67 feet*
Height 73.5in -- *6.125 feet*

2012 GMC Canyon SLT crew 4x4
Length 207.10" -- *17.26 feet. Effectively the same length as my '90 Ford
width 68.6" -- *5.72 feet * (I assume this is no mirrors as posted dimensions elsewhere puts it somewhere around either 76" or 82". I believe the 76" is closer to true width.)
Height 67.9" -- *5.66 feet* Only 2" lower than my 25-year-old beast.

VW Passat
length 191.6 -- *15.97 feet*
Width 72.2 in -- *6.02 feet*
Height 58 in -- *4.8 feet*

Not exactly an equitable comparison with the Passat since I don't have one to place beside my "Road Whale™" The simple fact is that the Passat IS more than 2 feet shorter than my 1990 F-150.

Unlimited Sahara 4dr 4x4
Length 173.4 " -- *14.45 feet. A foot and a half shorter than that Passat.
Width 73.9 " -- *6.16 feet. Narrower than everything BUT the two "mid-sized" trucks and the Passat.
Height 70.9 " -- *5.91 feet. This is a purpose-built off-road vehicle with 10.2" of ground clearance and it's STILL has a lower roof than those full-sized trucks up above! Including the 4x2 models.

You still wonder why I call them Road Whales™?

Now to address your followup. You state at one point, "the noses on the trucks where made longer to include crumple zones to make them safer to drive." I disagree. They didn't need to make them longer because the crumple zones in the front can include almost the entire engine bay. The newer engines are shorter than the old big-blocks and to be quite blunt the engine bay on many look like they crammed that engine into too small a space. Of course, that engine cover thingy does a lot towards making the engine look bigger than it is, but you might note that the firewall has been pushed forward as well to accommodate the lower slope of the windshield. While I haven't measured it, I'd almost be willing to bet the nose of my 1990 is as long as the modern trucks yet it looks like it has a lot more space available under the hood because of how far back the firewall sits. That also means that my wife simply can't reach the pedals comfortably because she can't stretch out (she has long legs). She feels 'crunched in' in this big truck though the Wrangler, for being so much shorter overall AND with a similar-length hood, lets her move the seat far enough back that she's quite comfortable with all three pedals. Even the Wrangler has pretty good front and rear safety ratings despite its smaller size.

No, today's trucks are bigger for one reason only--CAFE.

I don't doubt that ram4x4 has had no problems with his ram trucks. My brother put nearly 400,000 miles on his late 90s cummins before he finally lost the transmission. It was the first major problem he ever had and few minor problems, but he babied that truck. It didn't have a scratch on it. garaged. Only towed light loads with a light foot. I work the hell out of my trucks and push them beyond their limits. I haven't had a chevy personally for a long time so I can't really compare that, but I know my ram was extremely disappointing in quality as compared to my ford trucks. I trade up when the truck is wore out. At 5 years and only 110,000 miles, my ram is wore out to the point that it is no longer reliable and I am anxiously awaiting trading it in. I have never worn out a truck so fast. My 02 super duty still has lots of life left in it. My last f-150 gave me 13 years and 200,000 miles before I was ready for a trade in.

Challenging BC assumptions

Posted on March 25th, 2014 • by David Zatz
A study by the University of British Columbia (UBC) School of Business, sponsored by Chrysler Canada, showed that 77% of metro Vancouver (British Columbia) residents assumed that an import brand was the best seller for the province — when, in 2013, it was actually Chrysler. They also assumed that another import brand was the second best seller; only 4% named Chrysler.


"Ram does not have the manufacturing capacity to catch Chevrolet let alone GMC.

Posted by: Lou_BC | Mar 24, 2014 10:47:53 PM"

I thought RAM already out sales G.M.C.

@liam, "As for the 2015 GMC Yukon fire incident, let's not forget the same happened to a Ram one time."

Yes but, "General Motors announced Friday that it's recalling some 370,000 trucks in North America because of a fire risk."


@Cory, You are the JOKE!

Ram's joke V8 Hemi spanked ALL 1500's up hill loaded or unloaded. And spanked them ALL in the auto cross with a 1,ooolb payload.


The pickup truck market is exhausted cause too many new pickups were sold between 2011-2013, and the minimum average is 4 years when people replace their pickup that means the market won't come back till 2015-2017. I say 2014 will be a bad year for sales, plus with the few buyers out there are waiting for the new 2015 F-150 cause Ford did an excellent job getting the information and excitement out on the new design. If you talk in an average guy that doesn't own or doesn't plan to own a pickup up and you ask him what is the top, best pickup he will say its Ford. Ford has that good reputation that's going to be hard to take away.

I have a very simple way to find out what are the best and worst vehicles out there. Look at the used market, people don't get rid of vehicles they like best and they do get rid of vehicles they like the least.
In my calculations the used pickup truck market is flooded with newer Chevy Silverados and Ram 1500's,, very few Ford F-150's out there in the used market.
Its very simple, people don't get rid of vehicles they love the best.
I think you Ram Owners have to keep reassure yourselves and pat yourselves on the back that you search for others to tell you that you have the best pickup out there where in the back of your mind you worry about it.


You were up late last night. How can you make these pronouncement about the state of the current half ton truck market without mentioning the horrible economic circumstances that families and business have dealt with for the last six years?

You also spoke about the relative strengths of the respective truck brands but cited no facts. If you have figures to support the remarks you made about Ford, RAM and GM please share.

Doing these things I mentioned would make your comments more interesting and useful.

two cents.

hmm.. 2004 Dodge Ram hemi 4x4 quad cab with 3.92 limited slip 5 spd auto. 120,000 + miles have had the following issues:
1. Power steering hose leaked (replaced under warranty)
2. Minor rust ( I live in the rust belt and extensively use truck towing trailers in the snow/salt).

2 buddies that use their trucks in almost the same situations, both 2005 f150's. Issues:
1. Trans replaced at 140k on the one ford.
2. Other f150 sounds like a friggin diesel there is so much engine noise, uses oil, ford's answer use 10w40. Mileage 130k.

I think GM, Dodge and Ford all make a good truck. Thing is, in my experience GM trucks simply last longer than the others. I'm still driving my 94 SLE Z71 and it continues to be reliable and comfortable. I also have a 2006 quad cab sierra, it has all the features I need and has been bulletproof. I see no reason to buy a new $50k truck.

GM sued over ignition switch in Alabama fatality.


GM stock drop shows Barra's challenges go far beyond recalls.


GM must send 'park it now' alert to recalled-car owners, plaintiffs tell U.S. judge.

Charles and Grace Silvas, who sued GM this month in a proposed class action for as much as $10 billion for the lost value of 1.6 million cars it recalled, filed the request two days ago with U.S. District Judge Nelva Gonzales Ramos in Corpus Christi. Courts can issue such orders if they are needed to prevent people from being harmed, they said in a filing.

GM has said it identified 12 deaths linked to vehicles with defective switches made in the mid-2000s, including some Chevrolet Cobalts and HHRs as well as Opel, Pontiac and Saturn models. The carmaker faces a criminal probe and an investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

GM is gonna end up where RAM was 10 or 15 years ago. the bob seger days are over now. the fanbois are in denial about the state of GM's dilemma. GM lacks cutting edge innovation like via Ford & RAM its time pass the torch on to somebody else. admit defeat lol...the Ford 5.0 cranks out 360 hp what the hell is GM bragging about? direct injection? lol Ford & RAM don't even need that s**t! My point is GM acts like direct injection is some idea they invented its definitely not & a big displacement by .3 still cant edge out the 5.0 v8 nor the 5.7 Hemi. Fuel economy sucks because their trucks are practically giant bricks from the 1980's with semi-modern engines I say, semi-modern because lets face it the ecotec's are just rebranded vortec's that date back to the 1980's....What a embarrassment for an important part automobile history. It looks like obama redesigned the new sliverado after smoking a crack pipe for a few hours. but, I guess big Gov is hip now for the Chevy fanbois lmafo....

@ Papa Jim

I can't agree with you on how bad the economic climate has been because I run into far to many businesses that don't treat the customer as if they are valued.

Currently I have been trying to get someone to do a repair on my homes roof and I will be darned if I can get any company interested in fixing the rotted out plywood on one corner.

Other companies I have dealt with for other things also seem to be fat, dumb and happy with their business and just don't seem to care if I am a customer or not.

I used to go along with how bad the economy is, but not anymore. In a really bad economy a company would treat every customer like gold.

Instead to many businesses today have taken on that entitlement mentality that I should be thankful that they even talk to me and I should be happy to just pay them for inferior work that they get to when they feel like it.

@lou bc

JD power is the only one i have found that ranks ram well below the other 2. In fact some rate the ram higher than GM. I dont trust all the review companies cause the one that pays the most usually has the best ratings!

When buying a new truck blood is thicker than water to me, the make or brand I buy isn't as important than if I like or dislike the people selling it to me, its that feeling I have good or bad and I trust that feeling. I was treated like dog dirt at the Dodge Dealership and I was treated like a King at the Ford Dealer so I got the Ford. Liked the Dodge Ram better but I wasn't going to kiss their you know what to buy one.
That amazes me that nobody talks about their dealer experiences, everybody only talks about the brand. That's my hard earned money I am spending and I at least have to like the people that I give that money too!
My Ford Dealer had a nice summer picnic that they invited their customers to and I enjoyed myself and they even sent me a Christmas card, (the ONLY Christmas card I got) Maybe I am soft and I have no friends but how good they treat me makes a big difference and tugs at my heart strings so my next new pickup will be another Ford.

@RAM 4x4

What part of the country are you talking about? I live about 45 minutes from Disney in central Florida.

I don't see anybody around here that sounds like your area except maybe some of the mom/pop restaurants and bars.

Construction and services are super competitive here and they will compete for your business.

Sorry about the lousy experience you had. Consider a move!

@papa jim

your right. gms update was a complete flop. I'm liking what rams starting to do. air suspension and such.
I'm still not sold on the new f150, the aluminium kinda weirds me out. but i am interested to see what this new baby ecoboost can do.

The dealership experience is what drove people to by Jap cars and trucks. Toyota does a brake job on my brothers car thats 7 years old and they give him a 2 year old car to drive while its in the shop. Try getting GM to give you a loaner on a new car. They always say their all out in the field. Sorry.

@hemiv8 - "A study by the University of British Columbia (UBC) School of Business, sponsored by Chrysler Canada, showed that 77% of metro Vancouver (British Columbia) residents assumed that an import brand was the best seller for the province — when, in 2013, it was actually Chrysler. They also assumed that another import brand was the second best seller; only 4% named Chrysler."


Chrysler is an import brand in Canada.

@brandon507 - that is why corroborating data is important. Vincentric has similar ratings to JD Power and CR if one looks at durability doesn't give good ratings to Ram either.

@hemiv8 - I'm talking about GMC with the "big C" meaning corportation NOT brand.

work on comprehension.

You are now trolling GMC threads with all of that switch news.........

"That amazes me that nobody talks about their dealer experiences, everybody only talks about the brand."
posted by tom#3.

I spent 3 hours at my local Dodge dealership buying my 03 Ram. Do all the maintenance myself or my mechanic.

With all the Recalls on your Ford you probably spend a lot of time at the dealer. So ya, maybe it matters to you.

@LouBC, Just so your clear. G.M. is Corporate for Chevy & GMC.

"work on comprehension."

I am posting the current state of G.M. that is fighting for market share. Are you lost? This blog is asking if Ram can overtake Chevy in sales here in the U.S. Ram already out sales them in Canada. With all of G.M's problems I think it is possible. Thus the reasons for the ignition switch info. Has the light came on yet? Eh!

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