Ram Farms Its Country Music, Agriculture Connections

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At the Academy of Country Music's second annual Party for a Cause Festival in Las Vegas this past weekend, Ram sponsored a huge outdoor lifestyle show to celebrate all things related to country music. The event was a warm-up for the "ACM Awards" show (which aired April 6), with the big draws being multiple live music acts, the ACM Expo, real bullriding and mountains of barbecue.

We caught up with Marissa Hunter, global advertising director for Chrysler and head of the Ram Truck brand; she gave us a tour of the 25,000-square-foot Ram 1500 ride and drive area where anyone who could sign their name and answer a few questions could get a test drive over some short-track obstacles.

"We should be getting somewhere around 30,000 people attending this event over the four days we're here, and close to 2,500 people getting into one of our new Ram 1500s," Hunter said. "We find out what they think about our Rams before they get in the seats, then we ask them what they think after they get out … and if anyone wants more information, they can get info about dealers too."

She went on to explain that Ram's partnership with the "ACM Awards" dovetails nicely with Ram's plan to make connections with truck buyers who appreciate the benefits that a bed, payload and towing capacity can provide. "It must be working, because we just had one of our best months in almost a decade," she said, referring to the fact that Ram outsold the Chevrolet Silverado by some 285 units in March.


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"We're a fighter brand, so we're going to keep pushing to our strengths with more exposure and more partnerships that make sense to our buyers," Hunter continued. Ram certainly got a lot of exposure last year in the Super Bowl when the "Year of the Farmer" ad debuted to both critical and industry buzz success.

"Our latest promotion is called 'The Next Crop Project,' where more than 100 of our dealerships will partner with the national organization of the Future Farmers of America — and for every Ram test drive that happens on April 26, we'll be donating $20 to the local [FFA] clubs," Hunter said. The program is designed to raise awareness for the almost 90-year-old youth organization while at the same time supporting the farming industry, she said.

Whether this type of program will help Ram continue to beat Chevy Silverado sales in the months to come remains to be seen, but here's the 30-second commercial (below) Ram debuted during the "ACM Awards" to announce the program.

To download the full press release, click here.

Images by Mark Williams, Cars.com


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"Compared to the GM twins, it does wallow around the road, especially in turns just like someone said above. I rented a RAM 1500 a few months ago to move ceramic tile, approx. 800 pounds of it and the truck's suspension felt like it was at it's limit."

Posted by: Scott Hibbard | Apr 7, 2014 7:18:45 PM


"The Ram 1500 tore up the 7.2 percent grade, taking only 8.2 seconds to reach 60 mph empty."

"When trailering, the Ram 1500's rear end did a great job of getting the 20-inch Goodyear Wrangler SR/A tires (the exact same tires on the Ford, Chevy and GMC) to hook up and pull the 8,500-pound trailer to 40 mph in 11.3 seconds. The F-150's EcoBoost twin turbo came in not far behind, with the Chevy, Toyota and Nissan following closely.

Oddly, the GMC struggled to get traction with a trailer, ":((


"The winner of the empty autocross was the Ram 1500, with a time of 46.0 seconds. Our test driver made note of how well the suspension was able to dive and hold the corners and keep the rear end controlled better than any other in the test, especially in tight hard-right, hard-left transitions."

RAM "In first place after the loaded runs, the Ram posted a loaded best time of 47.1 seconds. This time, it was Ford in second place with a time of 48.5, and the Chevy came in third again with a time of 48.8."


Another full of $#!^ fan boi. What a SURPRISE! LOL

"Our Hemi- and eight-speed-equipped ($500) new Ram 1500 came to us with the second-lowest base price of the group while still meeting our requirements. This half-ton SLT crew cab lists for $38,295 and allowed Ram to include probably the longest list of options of any competitor."







Here read this and come back to me after you do.

Notice very time they say "multi-link" what word is next to it?

I am talking about axles, multi-link is referring to the______.

@ALL1, I will buy a FORD when they stop SPONTANEOUSLY com busting, have a V8 with some balls and SOME mpg, longer warranty, better looks.

" Chrysler brands have been gaining popularity among “real people,” if retail sales are any indication. From nearly half of U.S. sales being attributed to fleets, Chrysler has come down to 36% in 2010, 28% in 2011, and 26% in 2012."


"Sergio Marchionne promised to wean Chrysler off its reliance on fleet sales, shortly after taking over leadership of the company. Despite increased commercial-vehicle sales, Chrysler finished 2012 with 74% of its U.S. sales going to retail buyers, rather than fleets, an improvement over 2011, when 72% of sales were retail."



Please for the love of all that is good don't buy a Ford F150. I don't think I can handle the fact of someone such as yourself to own the same kind of truck I do. It would make me feel less about myself seeing you in a Ford. I thank my lucky stars every night that you love Rams and not Fords. Thank you HEMI V8 for loving Rams. I kind if feel sorry for the poor old Ford that felt it was better to spontaneously combust then to have you as an owner one more day, but then again I would have probably done the same. That F150 is in a better place now.

I very well realize Ram's payload is not as high as it could be, yet again I wonder why it matters. Most of the guys who have 1/2 tons have never come close to hauling at their truck's capacity. The guys I know that need to haul a lot go for bigger trucks. Rams payload numbers certainly haven't been scaring away buyers considering Ram's steady improvement in sales. The only people that are scared away are the guys that come on PUTC and believe everything bad they hear about Ram.


I understand that many do not tow the max weight of their "half tons", but 6,000lbs is not that much weight to pull to be putting you that close to your max payload. That 6,000lbs trailer would be only 69% of what that truck is rated to pull yet it takes up well over half its max payload. That should not be.

Like I said you Big Al, the main reasons that why Ram is increasing sales is due to selling their 3.6L Pentastar and the new 3.0L diesel to those that either want more FE than needed payload or they are those that don't even look at the payload sticker on the door at the time of purchase as was the case for a few Ram owners on this sight. For those types, an HD payload package would not be for them since they are fine with current capacities. However, for those that do plan to use their Ecodiesel as intended, an HD payload package would be a good thing.

I don't get you guys. One would think that Ram fans would be onboard with improving the 1500 and adding options that people want so it can sale sale more. But no, as I said earlier "It is the elephant in the room that you guys just choose to ignore because of your pride for your favorite brand." I don't see why you guys would be against such an option to have. Yes, the 1500 payload capacity is a weakness especially with the Ecodiesel yet you guys burn anyone that offers an improvement for it to the stake all the while putting your heads in the sand acting like it is a non-issue for truck buyers.

Like I said before, I am not downing Rams. I am just saying Ram should offer such a package for those that want it.

Also, you guys say hurray when Ram increases the 3500 towing ability to almost 4 times it weight yet a "half ton" towing not even twice it's weight is unsafe? Really?


RAM Rear Axle with Multi-Link suspension is superior to outdated 100 years old Hotchkiss leaf suspension rear axle on F150.
Like I said many times in this article, F150 has more payload.
RAM has superior Rear Axle with Multi-Link Suspension.
All of my arguments stay valid:
Better ride and handling. The coil-spring setup centralizes and absorbs bumps and impacts, while reducing friction; it also weight 40 pounds less than a leaf-spring configuration (less unsprung mass = better, safer drive and forces handling) . For the 4x4, the Ram has a larger articulation range than its leaf-spring competitors, with less freeway hop.

We call all those components Axle in Europe, because suspension is just spring, air or leaf spring.
When we rip front independent axle on the car , we refer to all the links and components on the front axle. Similarly , rear axle means all the components attached to it in Europe not just tube. Sorry I will be more clear so even you can understand that RAM rear axle with all the links is very different from your Ford one. It's not my fault Ford doesn't have all those other components and links attached to the axle, just leaf springs to take care of all the forces, so you are getting confused, because you don't know better. But you are getting better. You found Allpar. Next step is to make offroad test drive to see that huge difference.
Does this new version I made for you make you happy finally ?

There is no such thing as a truck that will please everyone. Also the needs of 1/2 ton buyers are not consistent with the needs of 3/4 ton buyers and the needs of 1 ton buyers are different as well. I'm not against Ram improving their payload. All I am saying is it is what it is, take it or leave it. If you don't have or want a Ram then that's perfectly okay. I don't have a problem with that, in fact I encourage you to go and buy whatever truck you want with your hard earned money.

I am not at all worried about the payload issue, it will only get better, Ram is about due for a refresh anyways. People are buying the current ones so Ram must feel there isn't the business case to make any changes prematurely. Unlike most everyone else here I am not into the whole "number wars" with each truck maker trying to outdo the other. I have always bought a truck based on my needs and how well it fits my lifestyle. In my case, Ram's payload capacity suits my need very well. I tow with it, and I move funature, buy applainces, I do all the things that someone would use a 1/2 ton for, yet I have never come close to overloading it.

I've said this before, that when the focus of advertising is on capabilities, people get funny ideas about what their 1/2 ton is supposedly capable of. For example, the other day I see this guy drive by me, probably doing 80mph in his F150 towing a 5th wheel. I wouldn't say he was overloaded, but it didn't look like a job his truck was particular suited for. The advertising makes people think stuff like that is okay, instead of using a 3/4 ton like they should. Yes your F150 can probably handle a pallet of tiles, and my Ram couldn't, but again, why would you want to load your truck to it's full capacity. People were throwing out numbers right and left today, but in the real world, such as in my situation, I use my truck for real truck stuff day in and day out and have never had payload come back to bite me. I'm sure that's the case also for the hundreds of thousands of Ram buyers like me who haven't ever had that issue either. It's not as bad as you make it out to be.

Correction: The only Ram 3500 that is rated to tow 30,000lbs is a regular cab dually that has a curb weight of 7,450lbs according to Ram. That is over 4 times it's weight not almost 4 times as I previously stated. I find it funny that that is okay, but my 5,800lb truck towing 9,500lbs is just not safe.

@HEMI MONSTER - there are advantages to having a 1/2 ton with higher cargo capacity.
Cargo capacity, as All1 has pointed out effects towing capacity. If your tongue weight removes most of the cargo capacity of the truck, that means you have to leave the truck empty. That includes passengers. That is no big deal with a reg cab but most 1/2 tons are crewcabs or extended/double cabs.
Most do not need the poor gas mileage, increased insurance costs, and higher maintenance costs of a 3/4 ton.

When I was single and spent most of my time in the back country hunting, fishing, quading, dirt biking, and camping. I owned a 3/4 ton not so much because of the extra capacity but because of the tougher suspension, frame, and tires.

I still go out into the back country but not as much and I don't go into as remote or as poorly accessible areas. I do not need the extra cost of a 3/4 ton for the remaining 70% of the time.

I do know what I need and my truck gets loaded to its max with my family on board, by boat on the back and full of camping and back country safety gear.

Having the option or ability to get a 1/2 ton with higher capacity opens the market up to those that actually pay attention to what they buy.

Ram can try to upsell everyone who needs capacity but in reality the opposite happens. A salesman will tell you the cargo and towing capacity of a plain jane truck. They will tell you the mpg of a V6, but the performance abilities of the biggest and badest motor.

It all boils down to caveat emptor.

Car companies will not change if people do not ask or vote with their wallets.

GM is learning that one the hard way with the 2014 trucks.

Don't even go there. Semi's pull many time's their own weight, it's all about capability of the tow vehicle. The 3500's have pretty much the best frame out there with a great powertrain, they are more than capable for that kind of towing. The truck does make a difference. Check out this video on Ram's frame vs a F350. I know HEMI V8 posted this before, but it makes a good point:

@ALL1, Seems Ford is willing to risk more if something does go wrong and you end up in court.

Lets not forget Fords magic spring dust. Lets not forget Ford is HUGE compared to Chrysler. Lets not forget these numbers are on PAPER! In reality which is where i live, the manufacture is the one setting these ratings. And most importantly, lets not forget that these companies are making enormous amounts of money and will kill their moms (ie G.M) for more share of the pie. Corporations are GREEDY. Anything for the O mighty dollar.

Lets not forget the F 150 is FORD'S everything. It's the crown jewel of the company. Ford besides the mustang have NOTHING that excites me.

Lets not forget who out performed ALL others in towing and autocross with a 1,000lb payload. Ram may NOT be able to haul more than FORD. I can't say. NEED TESTING. but out performs all others in the rate Ram has set. That is a FACT.

What an interesting situation we have here. It appears that after all the GM bashing by 2 combined forces their is now a rift. The Ford guys were looking to take down their biggest and longest rival GM. The Ram guys want to take GM down because they want GM's spot. Now sides are turning on each other has the alliance been broken?

Like I said earlier, everyone's needs are different, there is not any one size fits all truck. A Ram doesn't suit your needs, fine not a problem, you buy a Ford.

Again, I have no problem with Ram increasing payload capacity in the future.

Part of the problem is there is a balance act. Families demand crew cabs now, which was not the case 15 years ago when there weren't any 1/2 ton crew cabs. Crew cabs have a higher curb weight and that equals less capacity.

When the truck is used as a lifestyle vehicle, such as to throw in all the gear and family to go camping, payload doesn't matter. Now if that included towing a travel trailer plus stuff in the bed, then sure it would matter, so a Ram wouldn't be the best pick. It's all about trade-offs, better ride or more capacity. The consumer decides. I don't see it affecting Ram negatively. I do think they could make changes that would help them gain market share.


So who set the standard that an F150 had to remain a "half ton"? Who said that they can't make it better? Who's said that it had to remain at a certain set citeria of what a "half ton" should be? Are they bound by law to keep the F150 to the limits of the archaic terms such as "half ton"? No, and no manufacturer does. There is no SAE or ISO guidelines saying what is or isn't to be determined a "half ton". There are also no guidelines saying manufacturers had to keep the 150/1500s withing what is deemed as a "half ton". A manufacturer can add frames, brakes, and suspensions that are better then what was used on "Heavy Duties" ten years ago like Ford did in the F150 and no one could stop them. I mean are going to go up to Ford or any manufacturer and say that they better make "half tons" in the specs of what you think a "half ton" should be? No, because they will laugh at you and tell it is their truck and they will make it as they damn well please which is to please the consumer with options they want.

You see, we have to break away from these old terms because they don't apply anymore. They were applied back in a day when our truck technology limited truck makers to those weight limits. Today you have "half tons" with payloads well over a 3/4 of a ton, "three-quarter tons" with payloads well over a ton, and "one tons" with payloads well over 2 tons. Those old terms are just that, and not truck make is bound to abide by them.

I have a goose-neck ball on my "half ton" that I use for a cattle/horse trailer and my flatbed. Is it a crime that a "half ton" is pulling a goose-neck even though it specs are better then what we deemed as "3/4 tons" ten years ago? Again, who regulates this stuff in saying that the manufactures have to make their trucks like "half tons". I don't know about you, but I always expect more out of my truck and expect the manufacturers to keep improving to meet the needs of us the consumers.

Here this is a good read----- http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/information/half-ton-truck.htm

That's all right All1. But you are driving F250 with F150 badge on it.

Fine, I won't use those terms anymore, I just use them for a lack of a better designation. I am well aware that they don't have any literal meaning attached.


On paper, the specs of my F150 is better all the way around from frame, brakes, engine power and the such that my old 99 Ram 2500 Cummins automatic. The only area it is lacking is the rear axle, but they are also rated at different payloads. In the real world, my F150 will out tow, out stop, and are just about equal on handling the load. So yes, you can say what you want about "on paper" or "real world" of the F150 or other makes, but I actually have experience with the two.

So again, you guys say hurray when Ram says a 7,450lb truck can tow 30,000lbs, but say that another manufacturer is lying when they say their 5,900lb truck can tow 9,500lb or 11,000lbs? Really?

That is fine, buy a 2500, I don't need to spend the extra money to buy a more capable truck because what I got pulls what I need it to with no complaints from me. You may not have to pay the $750 for a Max tow package, but I don't have to pay the couple grand for having to move up to a Heavy Duty.

I am happy that truck makers are making trucks more capable and safe. There is one problem though, that is drivers. 25 years ago they would have needed a F350 to tow what a F150 can now.

Why are they loads people are towing increasing so much? See, just because people have a truck capable to tow 10k doesn't mean they as a driver have the experience or skill to do so safely.

With the Ram 3500's advertised max tow rating, anyone towing that much would need a non commercial class A license, or possibly some type of class C endorsement (I'm not sure). There is a lot of oversight when it comes to commercial trucking and even towing for hire in a 250 or 350, but when it comes to your average Joe towing, he can do whatever he wants basically.

If trucks are becoming more and more capable, that's a good thing, but at some point enough is enough, because most people only need to do so much with a truck, in other words, they can only make trucks be so capable before that capability goes way beyond what any Class C driver should be towing.


And I understand that, but remember Ram has a"half ton" truck that is rated to tow over 10,000lbs too. So calling out Ford for having a 10,000lb rating from a Ram person is a bit hypocritical. The only difference is the F150 is rated at more payload in that truck they say can pull 10,000+lbs, but it also has bigger brakes, bigger axles, and stiffer suspension.


@All1, Just because a truck is a 150, does not mean it cost less than a 2500.

Not everybody like stiffer suspension and worse handling specially if they don't need that payload. That's also my case and many more people buy RAM because of that lately. In February I wrote "I can't wait for March numbers" and what a surprise for everyone else. Not for me. I will call it again. I can't wait for April numbers.
RAM is running out of production capacity, but they are considering new factory even they run just third shift for now and say , they are not going to build one, I am pretty sure, they think of it.
So apparently RAM is doing everything right. They don't need to cannibalized RAM 2500 selling numbers with RAM 1500 payload increase.

You are correct in that many NA pickup drivers have not experienced a diesel truck. I do think many will be surprised on this site by the take up and reviews on the smaller diesel pickups.

The fact is the performance drop is not as near the same as a gas engine as it is loaded.

Gasoline engine don't perform as well under load.

As for the acceleration, the V6 Ram is supposed to do a 0-60 in 9 seconds, I thought? For most is that not quick enough?

Also, my point about the Ram is are they bought as work trucks or daily driving SUVs? Hence, my comment on their low load capacity.

People can talk about tow limits, but the reality is most will never tow more than a utility trailer.

If you are going to tow 10 000lbs like ALL1 I don't think a half ton is suitable.

It's a shame Ram won't add a HD package to the 1500. They could be selling more trucks to people that can get by using a 1500 as a work truck. Doesn't make sense to me since they one one of the best drivetrains you can get in a low end spec work truck.

Save thousands on a buying a 1500 over 2500.

Save money on fuel

Save money on yearly inspections

Save money on insurance.

Save money on registration

Save money on repairs.

Been looking at Rams Hemi 8speed and 2014 Chevy trucks because by the end of this summer I'm go to bite the bullet and get a new truck. Really would like to try a Ram but it would be overload pretty much all the time. So its leaveing me with one choice Chevy.

LOL zveria and crew, You do realize that the new Colorado mid sized, Tacoma and Frontier have pretty much the same payload as the Ram 1500 right?

zviera - Axles are not suspension. I don't care where you are from. They are totally separate items. You can have a 3500 axle on a 1500 but it won't matter if the suspension is only capable of holdng up whatever the payload rating is.

Unless there is some fundamental flaw in the Ram 1500 chassis, I don't get why they are rated so low. Just add the airbags like on the Ram 2500 and it should up the payload to the competition. How many Ram 1500 owners bought a truck for the towing thinking it was fine for their 6000lb trailer only to not realize the payload makes it way off limit? The only 10,000lb trailer Ram 1500 could realistically haul with anything loaded in the truck besides a driver and few few passengers would be a 4 axle hay trailer type that has no tongue weight.

@ALL1: You were screaming about how a RAM 1500 would not be suitable to tow a 6,000 lbs RV trailer with a family of four and gear. Do you even have a clue how big a 6,000 lbs RV trailer is? You're talking at least 28 - 32 ft. in length for a tag trailer. That's conventional hitch and ball, with weight distributing bars. Are you realistically going to tow that much trailer behind a 1/2 ton? Seriously? Not to mention, the odds are highly in favor that a guy with such a trailer is probably going to have his boat hooked up to the back of it as well. With all of those dollars in tow, I think the majority of truck owners will agree that they would be utilizing an HD truck.

RamTruckGuy - I tow a 28ft. 7500lb Travel trailer behind my 2005 Titan. Have done it since 2006. 156k on my truck. With a proper hitch the size is irrelevant unless your payload is all wrong and the suspension cannot handle the weight to start with.

BTW towing triple in the US is pretty much illegal. Might be a few states, but ot many.

@ Smoke: Not sure about individual state regulations on towing triples. Perhaps if both of the trailers were tag trailers it may be illegal (not sure, since I don't tow anything other than my boat,) but you see pickups towing a 5th wheel RV trailer with a boat hooked to it here in Michigan pretty frequently during the summer vacation season. Also, I wouldn't say that the size or weight of a trailer is necessarily irrelevant when towing. Chassis, weight, and handling characteristics/limitations are merely one factor when towing with a pick-up truck. Powertrain is another. Powertrain limitations; suprisingly enough, is why many manufacturers have not yet adopted the J2807 standard. Their powertrains simply do not meet the required standards for cooling, or other requirements for the tow ratings they are trying to achieve. Certainly, I am not trying to start any type of mud-slinging like a lot of the other posters on this site regularly do; however, I would imagine the 5.6L V8 in your Titan is not happy towing that much weight unless you're on flat ground for much of it. Not to mention, at 7,500 lbs. you're towing 100 lbs. of weight more than Nissan's maximum recommended tow rating for your vehicle.

@ HEMI V8,

Yes, really. hen taking turns in a 2013 RAM 1500 (coil springs)with 800 pounds of tile in the bed, and myself (payload 975 pounds total), the truck pitched into the turns, and the nose pushed forward and downwards in turns. I had to take the turns much slower in the RAM than I had to in a 2013 Chevy 1500 that had much more weight in it. The Chevy had absolutely no pitching and no body roll.

I have absolutely no reason to say anything other than exactly what I experienced. As far as your "full of $#!^ fan boi" statement - my last truck was a Dodge. I've never owned a GM or Ford truck. So there is no "fan boi" element here, just simply first hand experience.

RamTruckGuy - If you are going to argue facts you need to learn them please. My truck is equipped with the tow package and rated to tow 9400lbs. The luxury and Pro4X last I knew with tow package are equipped to tow 9100lbs. Those numbers haven't changed since 2004 when the Titan debuted. The Titan has a 5.6L V8 and in my version is rated 305hp, 385lb/ft of toque. That's hardly over matched. I tow all over the northeast. Hardly flat ground. Hills it runs 4-4.5k RPM, tranny temp gage barely rises. Normal highway it hums happily along at 2100-2500rpm. Drivetrain is all original, 156k miles, only fluid changes. As far as trailer weight vs tow vehicle weight goes, go weight some of the loads the HD pickups are towing. Didn't I see most are rated to tow around 30,000lbs? whats the GVWR of the HD trucks? lol Guessing its not even close to 30,000lbs. The size I referred to as irrelevant was square footage, not weight.

Sorry, like I said when we say we rip of front axle we mean everything include all the links and suspension, doesn't matter if is it solid axle or axle with independent suspension. Now I know, that axle means only that tube with differential, shafts, bearings and lugs, like All1 is referring to.
Nothing else, no links, leaf springs in here. You call front axle, only if it is solid one with tube. If it is independent, you call it Independent front suspension, not Axle. We still call it axle. Front and rear and then specify solid or independent and then specify suspension . This is the same in France, Germany , Italy or anywhere in europe.
BTW:Everybody is from somewhere. Your predecessor are from Europe, Asia or Africa. Who cares.

Odd how my VW GTI as well as manufacturers Porsche, BMW and Mercedes all identify shocks, springs, control arms, ball joints and linkages as suspension components. In fact I don't recall Euro car magazines referring to axles as incorporating everything attached to them either. Axle is an axle, solid or independant. Independant just uses axle shafts to connect wheels to the differntial.

Axle - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
a bar on which a wheel or a pair of wheels turns. Full Definition of AXLE. 1. a : a
pin or shaft on or with which a wheel or pair of wheels revolves.

@ Smoke: Settle down...I was unaware of any max-tow package on the Nissan. Nor did you specify in your original posting or claims of what specific model you had. As far as your question for a RAM HD truck...the 3500 dually has a GVWR of 14,000 lbs (all duallys regardless of powertrain or drivetrain.) GCWR of RAM's most capable 3500 (std. cab 4x2 Cummins with Aisin trans, 4.10 axle ratio) is 37,600 lbs.

Why would anyone buy a half ton and load it to its max all the time when you could buy a 3/4 ton and not have to work the truck at its max all the time?

That is why there are 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks available.

The vast majority of work trucks get no where near the limit for a half ton truck any way.

The reality is the manufactures and the customers have all become addicted to the magic pixie dust that they use to inflate their tow and payload ratings.

When the new tow standards come on line I bet Ram fairs far better than does GM or Ford when the new numbers are reported. Then again Ford and GM may just refuse to use the new standard because both are going to look real bad.


"Not everybody like stiffer suspension and worse handling specially if they don't need that payload."

You hit the nail on the head of why I stated Ram should make an HD payload package for the 1500. Yes, not everyone needs the stiff suspension if they don't need the payload, but it would be a nice option in a 1500 for those that do. Currently there is not option and it is a deterrent for those that actually do want to tow what Ram rates their trucks to tow since they hit max payload long before they hit max tow rating. What is the point of saying a truck can tow 10,000lbs if it can't do it because other ratings are limiting it? This is all I am saying. I understand you want your plush car like suspension and their is nothing wrong with that. You are willing to give up payload to get that kind of ride you want out of your truck, but not everyone is the same on that. An option for those that are willing to give up some ride comfort for capability would be a plus for Ram. I really don't see why you guys would be against such a thing. You all act as if I cursed your first born or something when all I did was offer a suggestion to Ram that would probably help them sell more trucks.

Yeesh! Too much fanboyism on all sides in the first page of discussion and still some who insist that "Bigger and Stronger is Better for all". I'm going to agree with Big Al on one point that there is no one, *best* truck on the market.

So what if Ford sells the most trucks? They have what, TWELVE trim levels now trying to appeal to all types of truck buyers? At that rate, why not just go back to the A la Carte ordering method and let people order exactly the equipment they want for their particular purposes? It certainly wouldn't cost them any more to go that way, considering they all get built on the same two assembly lines. Just because I don't like Ford doesn't mean nobody should.

GM is doing something relatively similar to Ford by carrying 4-5 different trim levels for two different brands. The factor I like is that they offer some difference in appearance between those brands and despite Ford's popularity it seems GM's trucks do seem to last longer overall. I think they made a major mistake in their '14 design for extended cabs, but since both Chevy and GMC are built on the same assembly lines, it's a little difficult to run two different cab designs. It's possible they could have run an empirical test of which rear door design is more useful had they done Chevy the new way and simply modified the GMC's earlier style. But that's a different argument. As for their supposed flimsiness, they may look 'worked in' sooner, but if they just keep going despite that appearance which is really the more reliable truck?

And Ram... Probably the loudest complaint I hear about Ram trucks is their lack of load capacity. Yet, for whatever reason Ram is seeing more growth in sales than any other brand so far this year. Could it be the simple fact that those other trucks are simply Too Much Truck for people's needs? Even so, the Ram 3500HD has the highest tow rating of the three (or did before Ford "sprinkled Pixie Dust" on their chassis). Ok, I don't know for a fact what Ford did, but I never see any reports of physical changes to accommodate that heavier load, only a market-speak upgrade. Based on the vast majority of pickups I see on the road in my semi-rural locale, heavy load capacity is rarely needed except at the County Fair in the truck pulls.

Meanwhile, Toyota is seeing growth too. Several different farming communities I visit all comment about how they're seeing more Toyotas getting purchased by other farmers. More than one has commented that he was surprised by the loads being hauled/towed by a 'foreign' brand. Despite their lower sales for now, they are making an impression and people are looking at it who would have never looked at it before simply because of the name.

So, no matter what level of load/tow/passenger capacity you need in a truck, it seems there's one available--well, as long as you want BIG. Chevy/GMC, Toyota and Nissan seem to be handling smaller well enough, but they're also not small enough for SOME buyers. We'll just have to wait and see, because I believe the pickup truck platform is headed for significant change within 10 years.

"Axle is an axle, solid or independant"
"Independant just uses axle shafts to connect wheels to the differntial."
Did you just call it independent axle? How is it looks like. Are you going to send me a picture with Lower arm, Upper arm, tie rod ends shocks and springs? Or picture with Lower arm and McPherson struts ? Similarly, picture of Rear axle from RAM will have all Multi-Link components.

@All1: Why does your "half-ton truck" weigh almost three tons? You do realize that it's almost a full ton heavier than a half-ton of only 25 years ago?

The point is that your truck, at that weight, should not be CLASSED as a half-ton!

Read the definition I posted zviera. Axle shafts are attached to the diff and spindles by CV joints. Solid axle had shafts contained in the housing.

" Full Definition of AXLE. 1. a : a
pin or shaft on or with which a wheel or pair of wheels revolves"

Pretty simple. No mention ofother stuff.

Order a Ram rear axle. You will get an axle. No linkages. No springs.

@Ram 4x4

With you being a Ram owner, I can see you saying what you did. However that is not the case with other makes. The term "half ton" is a 1960s term and it should have stayed there. Their "half tons" don't abide by this imaginary rule you have that "half tons" should only be limited to what you think a "half ton" should do. These F150 now days have the same kind or better specs in their frame, brakes, suspension and other parts as Ram 2500 did just 10 years ago. The bar gets raised year after year and those that don't meet it or exceed it get left behind. You may expect your truck to remain the same, but as I stated before I expect more out of my truck.

As I said before, "three-quarter tons" have a payload of well over a ton and "one tons" have a payload well over two tons. So......... those trucks are allowed to increase as time goes by but we have to abide by this imaginary rule that what you call a "half ton" should only stay at 1,000lbs payload? You may expect that out of Ram, but I don't expect that out of Ford.

ALL1 has a good point, they could sell more if the payload was higher. It wouldn't need to be in some payload pissing contest, but there are some combos the payload is crazy low.

The folks buying them (the super low rated combos of Laramie 4x4 crews ans such just overload them, or don't load them. Some that don't load them up do fine, others just stick on airbags, or get the air suspension, which holds it level and is not the same as a add on air bag.

Not sure if it's axle flange with 5 bolt, or something else. It's not the 9.25 rear axle HOUSING, that same unit is in my 87 D-250 reg cag 4x2 longbed, with a 4880 pound axle weight, but that that's an 8 bolt axle. (with a 7500 GVWR, that's about 3500 pounds payload.) So might be axles, but keep in mind a 4x2 and 4x4 Ram generally have the same GVWR, yet the 4x4 has about 200 plus pounds of driveline cutting into payload. So the 4x2 gets the higher ratings, while the 4x4 runs less weight on the rear axle, because the extra drivetrain weight is put on the front axle. The rear axle on the 1500 currently is rated at 3900 pounds.

@Scott Hibard: I wonder why it is that these shootouts when they put 1000 or 1200 pounds in the back, the Ram keeps smoking those Chevys in the autocross?

Also, in 2008 they did that squat test, and with 650 pounds on the hitch, the Chevy and Ram were within 1/8 of an inch. That's 650 further back. rear of the axle, which effects it more then 650 pounds louded in the bed as far forward as possible. Wow, that 150 pounds must make all the difference, right?

Was it a newer Chevy you rented? I don't see much differance in them, besides the payload RATING.

It's funny I see Harley Davidson F-150s with only 1150 payload, which is quite similar to a Lariat, save for the electric side steps, but yet many of those are sold, few have the max payload package.


There is not such class as "HALF TON". This is a term that people used back in the 60s that went for trucks in that era because technology limited truck to those payloads. Today there is no governing SAE, ISO, or any other automotive standard that uses those terms. Only consumers do. As I stated above, just because you have some notion of what a "half ton" should be does not mean a manufacturer has to build a truck to what you think a "half ton" should be and there is nobody holding them to this imaginary standard.

Please read----> http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/information/half-ton-truck.htm

"Order a Ram rear axle. You will get an axle. No linkages. No springs."
I agree. Now try to order RAM front axle. What you get , when you order complete front axle for your GT.

@zviera - If I ordered a Ram front axle I would get a diff and half shafts with CV joints. It would be those 3 parts required to join the wheels to the source of rotation. You won't get control arms or struts as those are not drivetrain components.

Speaking of, go try to get a blown shock or broken control arm covered under your powertrain warranty using your logic. They will laugh you out of the service area.


"Now try to order RAM front axle. What you get"


You get a front axle without links...... Suspension is in another category by itself.

Most of the furore over cargo capacity comes from the Rambo Motard group that pushes the "Ram is Best" crap. They come up with a myriad number of excuses when their brand does not measure up.
Load capacity matters if one plans to tow or do anything "truck like" with their truck. This is readily apparent in the crewcab 1/2 ton class.
The average weight of an "American" male is 195 and female is 165. You add two 100 lb kids to the mix and you are at 560 lb. That factors into cargo capacity. A 5k trailer with equalizer puts around 400 lb on the truck (assuming 10% tongue weight with 20% removed by equalizer). That puts you at 960 lb.
If a truck company claims a 10K tow capacity going with 10% tongue minus 20% equalizer that yields 800 lb on the truck.
If one has the 560 lb family of 4 you need a load capacity of 1,360 lb. (and that is with nothing else in/on the pickup.

@Roadwhale and others ........... WTF????
IIRC the whole 1/4 ton, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton 1.5 (deuce and a half) are old world war 2 military procurement specifications. They were then applied to civilian trucks.
Those designations in relation to cargo capacity have been USELESS since WW2.

They NOW represent broad truck classes NOT cargo capacity.

Wow - you would think so called truck guys would comprehend this sh!t.

One thing nobody has touched on yet regarding payload limits of pick-up trucks...their handling characteristics. ALL1, have you even considered what it would be like to perform an evasive maneuver with your F-150 loaded to its GVWR? How do you think it would fair? Sure, you'll say it would perform flawlessly, since it has ESC. What if the ESC failed? How do you think it would fair then? Do you think it is possible that RAM limits their GVWR on their 1500 to maintain the vehicle's safety in the event the ESC fails?

"It would be those 3 parts required to join the wheels to the source of rotation. You won't get control arms or struts as those are not drivetrain components."

That's what I was trying to explain. Everywhere else in Europe axle refers to all components , not just drivetrain components.
I have another question. How do you call everything together axle with links, shocks, coils or leaf springs, hubs, lugs, brakes, everything between the frame differential and the road at the Front and Rear.
We call it axle, but I won't anymore. I just want to know, how to call it.

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