Spied: 2016 Chevrolet Colorado Duramax Diesel

ChevycanyonVW.g01.KGP.ed-XL II

Although it won't be available for the first year of production (which starts in several months), the baby Duramax turbo-diesel option for the 2016 midsize GM pickups (the Chevrolet Colorado and the GMC Canyon) has been caught doing both high-altitude and hot-weather testing. No word on pricing for the powertrain option yet, but you can expect it to be packaged with the top trim package; eventually it should be available as a stand-alone option for cost- and durability-minded fleet owners. Here's what our photographers shared with us:

"GM is testing prototypes for its diesel-powered Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon alongside Volkswagen's Amarok pickup truck on the streets of Milford, Mich.

"The revived Colorado and Canyon will use GM's 2.8-liter Duramax turbo-diesel, which should give GM's new pickups a strong standing in the midsize truck market. These latest prototypes give us our best look at the Colorado diesel's venturi exhaust tip, which is likely to be the final production exhaust specification.

"The presence of the Amarok testing with GM's new, U.S.-spec midsize pickups is interesting. Such testing will help GM see how they will compare with the Amarok for global markets, but we've heard VW is also discussing the possibility of entering the U.S. truck market in the future. It's highly unlikely that the current Amarok will see U.S. showrooms — as some have deemed it too small for the North American market. VW's entry into the U.S. truck market will likely come with the next-generation, upsized Amarok model — which is expected to be a better fit for the U.S. market."

We should know more about the two gas engines later this summer when we get our first chance to drive the duo. As to what kind of competition GM's fraternal twins will have, much of that will depend on how long the U.S. pickup truck segment is protected by the "chicken tax."

(This story has been modified from original posting to correct the model year.)

KGP Photography images

ChevyCO.dieselVW.b01.KGP.ed-XL II

Chevy Colorado tail II

Chevy Colorado side II

 

Comments

@ALL 1 ,
Cars seemingly have no tow rating in the US. Go to Europe and they are happily towing up to 24ft Caravans(Travel Trailers)
http://www.towsure.com/fckeditoruploads/image/towbars/Motorway_Towing_HA.jpg

Something similar to what passed me.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8322/8028847467_45179c4163.jpg

@ALL1
"Maybe we would probably need an SAE and an ISO standard to equalize everyone's rating system if vehicles become more global as they already are."

That has been an argument of mine since blogging on this site.

I believe in open trade (within reason). With all 'signatories' agree to a common system of design/engineering, safety, fuel, and free trade.

The closest system to this and the only current system able to support your idea is the UNECE harmonisation of vehicles.

The rest of the world bar the US is moving in this direction.

So, the US is really the odd one out here.

The F-150 towing and hauling is all over the place depending on model, wheelbase, axle, engine and so on.
My 2013 F-150 FX4 ,5.0 V8 SC, 145"WB with the L6-3.73 axle and 7350 lb GVWR Package is rated at 2144 lbs payload and 9400 lbs towing.
The most you can get on a F-150 towing is 11,300 lbs with the trailer tow option #535-60M-60P and 60C
The most you can get on payload on a F150 is option code 627 (heavy duty payload) 8200 lb GVWR that IF I had on my truck that would be a payload of 3000 lbs.
Think about that! That's a higher payload and towing than many super duty trucks!

2014 F-150 Payload Ratings:
http://www.newfordf150.net/new-ford-f150-infocenter-payload-capabilities.html

denvermike=don?

@Tom Lemon/DenverMike/TRX-4 Tom and all the other detractors,

The more you push the more I will become resolute.

What I find intriguing is that you have labelled me a midsize zealot, when in fact I don't support anything.

I give midsize feedback because you guys don't have what we have.

You seem to talk about midsizers much more than I do, you must very interested in them.

Give it up, between all of you I don't think you are convincing.

It's all well and good to be loyal. But loyalty can only go so far.

When there is a plethora of facts and data supporting an argument it becomes rather boring. Sort of like re-inventing the wheel, if you have heard of that phrase.

Most of the time the impression I'm gaining is that I'm debating the same person, but with different names.

Post what you want, I have proven all of you are just ignorant and fearful of what you deem the unknown.

Our country went more or less what you are going through now. You have nothing to worry about. No matter what happens in your vehicle market there will always be some form of light commercial vehicle.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/08/2015-chevy-colorado-and-gmc-canyon-sneak-peek/comments/page/2/

@Big Al

I don't blame the for not wanting to conform the anything UN. Most conservatives cannot stand the UN and wish it were abolished from the face of the earth. Bigger governments and more regulations is not the answer to the worlds problem, it is the cause of it. The major problems we have over here stems from those that think bigger government and more regulations is the answer. So I am glad the US is the odd man out when it comes to following any regulations or standards those hypocrites at the UN make.

That is the reason why I stated that standard should come from standards organizations that are not tied to any form government which is why I said SAE or ISO. SAE and ISO is not funded or ran by any government and it's members consist of experts in said industries. Not because they were buddies or campaign managers to a government official which is why they got appointed to be on some UN council even though they know nothing about the industry.

Many industries follow ISO standards without any government regulations forcing them to. Industries follow those standards because their customers force them to. Take our filtration on our heavy duty trucks for example. We only buy from those that meet the ISO standards so it forces the filter companies to meet those standards. If customers forced the manufacturers to adopt the SAE J2807 standards by threatening to not buy their product then I would bet they would follow it shortly their after.

@DenverlllMike -

Two points:
1. If you want straight answers ask straight questions

2. If you don't like the answers provided prove them wrong as opposed to dancing and prancing around the truth.

I've long ago stopped pissing around with you. You've proven time and time again that you are not worth the effort.

I've said time and time again that the USA pickup market has been shaped by multiple factors. The chicken tax and safety/environmental regulations are part of a multifaceted picture.

@ALL1
The UN doesn't necessarily mean 'big' government.

In this case it means savings.

The US is duplicating government workers to do exactly what is being done in other countries. Especially if it goes it alone, like it's currently doing.

Why would you require bigger government. The same goes for automakers, they wouldn't have to duplicate jobs, for testing that has already been done or the cost of additional design work to suit the US market.

They figure billions of dollars are used every year by the US just to maintain it's different regulations.

The politics of the UN, I do agree with you can be rather bullShitty. But there are many aspects of work the UN does that is beneficial.

What you state is similar to stating that all the work of the US government is poor.

What do you base your opinion on?

@ALL 1
The F150 us only rated at 7,800lbs, The 3/4 ton 9,900lbs. Your web references only relate to the US as US P.ckups are not sold in Australia, but privately imported

US Ratings are not followed here.at all .Ratings in the US seem to have magic dust applied for PR purposes.Or ratings do not exist I.e. cars

@Lou_BC - Maybe something is lost in translation or you have a some kind of learning disability. Howsa boot I pose the question in French?

One last time. And I don't know how I can phrase the question any clearer:

★What EXACTLY are US full-size pickups "PROTECTED" from? Including 1/2 tons, but especially 3/4 tons to 4500 series HDs?

★Is there a secret line of Peugeot full-size and HD pickups we don't know about yet? What about Jaguar 1/2 ton pickups? Maybe BMW 1 ton dually crew cabs? Lotus Baja running fullsizers? Ferrari pickups for insanely fast Home Depot runs???

⚔Answer the question or quit...

⚔But US safety requirements are for the good of us all. If they're unfair, they're equally unfair to all OEMs, foreign and domestic. If they're an actual "barrier", would you put your kids in an unsafe truck? I wouldn't put my dogs in one!!!

⚔Mostly, if the Chicken tax "protection" and regulatory "barriers" actually worked, and kept import global pickups out of America, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Subaru, Honda, Huyndai/Kia would be the prime beneficiaries. However, the '80's mini-truck craze/fad/invasion would've never happened. But more importantly, imports of any kind (to America) would've never happened.

@Tom#3 - if pedigree matters then "all women are NOT created equal".

@DenverlllMike - it all depends on what a women is used to. I had a girlfriend that was just as comfortable in the crate as out. One of my black women hated the crate as a young woman but it became her favourite place to sleep as she aged.

My current wife is a bit of a whiner in the cab or in the box. My wife's cock-a-poo is a pain in the ass…if you know what I mean ;) Not that there is anything wrong with that!

@DiM
Again another deflection. A distortion, a DiMism.

You stated that full size pickups are 'SUVs with a balcony'. This is your own words DiM, remember?

Your comment can lead to several conclusions. As SUVs are lifestyle vehicles, they can have alternatives. SUVs aren't a necessity. Commercial vehicles used in business are. SUVs are not used as a commercial vehicle. SUVs are toys.

So now have a look at all of the global ALTERNATIVES that would compete with the full size pickup.

Also, don't forget it isn't just full size pickups that are protected. What about prime movers? Or Class 5 or Class 6 or Class 3, etc.

That's why CAFE doesn't apply to most of these vehicles and a system similar to what the Europeans are using are being used for most vehicles covered by the chicken tax.

The Euro system must be fairer or the US wouldn't adopt it for American industry and business.

Why? Because if CAFE was used for industry and business they would cry foul. As it is an unfair system.

So, the UAW, Big 3, US government decided it is easier to screw the mom and dad consumer than industry.

LCVs, MCVs and LCVs are protected in the US by the chicken tax, which is unfair to industry/business. CAFE is unfair to the consumer.

So now you have full size 1/2 ton trucks of the future made out of aluminium and yet HDs will be of steel.

Why? The US government has realised like you have that most 1/2 ton pickups are in fact SUVs, personal transport.

They now bound by the same regulations that govern your cars. What happened to the road whales DiM? Hmmm..........

How hard is it?? Have you ever used google to seek information?? Give it a try, there's plenty of literature on this subject.

Provide some links for change instead of offering questions. It makes you appear to be a real fool.

Deflection my ass...you want some links here are some links Dero :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DIXraYW57k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdWST9-X-sE

@BAF0 - Nope. Just another BAF0ism from you.

What I said was "the Avalanche is not a truck, it's a 'SUV with a balcony'..."


"...So now have a look at all of the global ALTERNATIVES that would compete with the full size pickup..."

The global "alternatives" have to compete with full-size trucks, not the other way around. The "alternatives" would live in the shadow of full-size trucks, meaning they would have to be priced accordingly. That means OEMs can't sell them for anywhere near what they would net in other foreign markets or their homeland. The base Amarok gets $24,000 in Mexico and reaches about $44,000, no rebates. That's Mexico! A 3rd world country!!!

And these "alternatives" can't compete with US 1/2 tons, once the USDOT brings their over inflated capacities back to reality. Never mind competing with 3/4 tons and up.

I don't know that the US prime mover market is locked down either. It's not. I can buy a Hino, Isuzu, UD and others. But at least there's import brand "alternative" prime/medium dutys to choose from in America.

But interestingly, there's absolutely zero global "alternative" full-size 1/2 ton pickups to compete with US full-size. And of course zero global "alternative" 3/4 ton pickups, all the way to medium duty, prime movers.

*But* numbskulls seem to think these US full-size pickups actually are "protected" from "something"? What's that's the 'something'? I'd REALLY like to know!!!

CAFE is "unfairer" to everyone, equally, within each class.

But the bigger an engine/vehicle is, the worse MPG that's allowed. That's just basic common sense. Every 1st world market has similarly structured mpg/emissions standards/regs. Including the EU.

So in your mind, why should small engines be allowed the same or worse emissions/mpg as big engines???

So name a nation or market that allows small engines/small vehicles to get worse mpg/emissions, pound for pound, cc for cc, than big ones...

And the EU is more "unfairer" the most markets. Did I mention about 4X greater tariffs than the US imposes on imports???

Some people are just insane. They don't listen to logic. They don't listed to themselves.

I don't want to say they're stup!d. So let's just say they're trolling and leave it at that...

@DiM
I do suggest you get onto google and search for the questions you have asked and what you stated/displayed you don't know.

Once you do this then lets have a debate.

I really don't expect you to respond to this, as I've already searched google regarding the comments you have made.

If you can source any information that is different than what we have sourced please provide links so we can be enlightened by your prowess regarding the chicken tax and other trade barriers afflicting the US vehicle market.

Whatever is the source of your info/data isn't available on the internet to anyone else. If passwords are needed please provide them so we can access this data base you are using.

Is there a different www. internet? If there is please provide a link into this new dimension that you seem to dwell in.

Or, you forgot your medication, oxycodone?

Ford lover get mad because dmax is a better stronger puller and it was prove ,,just imagine the big dmax poor ford ,,

@BAFO - No Argument? That's your argument???

You must be annoying at dinner parties, when discussing world history and whatnot, if you have to pull out your phone every 2 minutes to confirm a date or event, when you're about to lose a debate. I know your type. But do you have to troll dinner parties too???

It's impossible to have a civilized discussion with a troll. You mention the Holocaust and they'll jump in demanding scientific proof and official documents that it ever happened.

Irritants like you will claim UFOs or Big Foot exist, and when you call them on it, they demand PDFs proving them wrong...

Pointless!

But no, I'm not gonna scramble around digging up links to what's common knowledge, while you strain your brain, thinking of a good comeback. (there are none...) You're argument's out of gas (or diesel actually). You lose. That's it. You can dance around it all you want. It doesn't change the simple fact!


@DIM
"Howsa boot I pose the question in French"

Go for it.

Je parle français aussi.

I never mentioned HD's.

Interesting spin.

You prove your side of the debate with some facts.

@Lou_BC - What "spin"?

OK, you're saying, when you say "Protected US Pickups", you only mean "mid-size and 1/2 tons"? Not US HD Pickups?

That's fine, but what am I, a mind reader?

Alright. US pickups are great sellers because they're so "Protected". Got it. Not counting HDs. Got it, got it.

So you're only talking about the Ridgeline, Tacoma, Frontier, F-150, Ram 1500 and Silverado/Sierra 1500s, right?

And the upcoming Colorado/Canyon, correct? OK, good.

What about the Titan and Tundra? They must NOT be "protected" because their sales suck so bad. Right? Or are they "protected" and their sales suck anyway? Once a US pickup is "protected", sales should be through the roof! Like the hot selling Ridgeline. And check out the astronomical sales figures of the heavily "protected" Frontier.

It's so complicated with you. You're like a girl I know. So many made up rules... You throw out a blanket statement and expect us to know what you're thinking and feeling?

But OK. NOW we know... But it's easy to see what global pickups would compete with "protected" US mid-size trucks like the Tacoma, but what's there to compete with US full-size pickups? So OK, not counting HD pickups, apparently, whatever...
So is there a secret Renault 1/2 ton truck we haven't heard of yet? And kept in a secret bunker in Area 51? What about a full-size pickup from Porsche that's Top Secret? World's fastest pickup with smoke coming out of the doors and dash constantly? A Fiat full-size truck... no, wait a second...


Laughable to say the least. Don't be silly.You do realize the whole '80s mini-truck crazy/fad/invasion had virtually zero affect on the full-size truck market, especially HDs... And the Chicken tax had virtually no effect on those import pickups by the million. So what would be different now?

No, mini-trucks cannibalized the entire US car market. And mini-trucks were the 'stop gap' between the molester van trend, plus other '70s gas guzzling land yachts of many forms, until the late '80s compact 4X4 SUV boom took off (like wildfire). Explorers, Troopers, Samurais, Amigos, Sidekicks, Blazers, Wranglers, Pathfinders, 4Runners to name a few. Millions of these hit the streets every year. These buyers had to come from somewhere. No?

'80s Full-size truck were watching from the sidelines. Laughing.

Thing is, American consumers are hooked on what they've got. A new wave of small trucks would have to kill the small /midsize SUV, CUV, cross over, cube, and other segments. No likely. BOF trucks with live rear axles, of any size, ride like hell compared to the comfy vehicles Americans would be giving up.

So the marginal sales potential of global trucks isn't likely to attract any, or many OEMs to America, with the Chicken tax gone. And what we're willing to pay for mid-size trucks is laughable, compared to what the rest of the world pays for global trucks, including 3rd world markets.

Yeah right, I can see global truck OEMs peeing on themselves to come take the abuse from US consumers, especially the fleet, cheapskate and rebate demanding bottom feeders that make up most of the mid-size market. Exactly!

Denver Mike is using the small trucks don't sell to divert attention away from the real issue which is protecting a market from global competition. If there are no tariffs or barriers then the free market will decide what sells. If the Chicken Tax is eliminated and full size still is the winner then so be it. Whenever the topic of lifting trade barriers or lifting the Chicken Tax comes up Denver Mike is quick to go to the small trucks don't sell. After reading his comments over the past I believe either he has a fear of opening competition or maybe he represents the UAW or Ford. Whether large trucks are the winner regardless of the Chicken Tax is not the point, the point is that the final consumer pays a higher price when there is a protective tariff. If you are going to use the argument that the consumer is going to pick large pickups anyway then why are you not for a free market without any barriers where the consumer benefits from more choice and lower prices?

@Jeff - When you say, I say "global trucks won't sell" what exactly do I mean?

"Won't sell" or "Will sell" is completely vague at best. And I never said they wouldn't sell.

The '80s mini-truck craze/fad/invasion was totally a different scenario. Those trucks severely under-cut the price of all vehicles sold in the US. Except of subcompacts. It was at a time when small sporty, fuel efficient vehicles were much in demand. And they had much better than the 'Malaise Era' quality/reliability we were used to. This was, of course before compact SUVs, CUVs, crossovers, boxy cube things, etc. that we love today. And the Chicken tax was fully in tact, at the time. Yes you heard right. Fully intact!

You say, today, the Chicken tax and technical barriers work at keeping global trucks from the US market, but it's unclear which, if any, global OEMs are willing to come here (or come back) and take abuse from fleet, cheapskates and other bottom feeders, all converging on the lowest common denominator of pickup.

It's abundantly clear global OEMs can't even get anywhere near the MSRP in the US (before rebates), that they can around the world, even in 3rd world countries. Mexico pay $24,000 USD for the base Amarok and that almost doubles for the hard loaded Amarok. No rebates. So WTFs?

I'd say there maybe a couple global OEMs willing step up to the American pickup 'plate'. But what's really being "Protected" is small to mid-size SUVs, CUVs, crossovers, etc, etc. And sedans, mostly from Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, etc.

But there's no real reason prices of cars and trucks would be impacted by any new global OEMs in the game. No, actually global OEMs would have to drastically lower their prices to meet American prices. If global OEMs don't lower their prices, when and if they get here, all that can happen is American MSRPs will rise...

However, the tail doesn't wag the dog...

https://mx.autocosmos.yahoo.net/catalogo/vigente/volkswagen

https://www.thepeoplehistory.com/80scars.html

@Denver Mike, Jeff S.

Don't make me come in here, boys! The reason small trucks aren't selling well is simple. It's just like eating at McDonalds.

If I got to Mickies for a burger, fine! If I go there and load up, it costs too damn much.

Same with trucks. If I buy a stripped compact truck for $15k fine. Four-banger, stick, AC, am-fm, steel wheels.

What my brother calls the birth-control package (cause you AIN'T getting laid with that package)

But if I want a six-cylinder, auto, crew-cab, power windows, decent stereo-CD player, wheels upgrade, Nav, power seats--then I'm looking at the same price OR MORE than a similarly equipped half ton.

Do I get great FE for buying the compact truck? Not with the upgrades I picked. Do I get a truck that's easy to park? Well, not really. It's got a 126 inch wheelbase so it's about like parking a damn Suburban (130").

Do I get great seating comfort with the crew cab upgrade? Not really. Back seats are ok for kids and dog. Or groceries.

Does my truck come with the Off Road package? Yes, but you can damn near get a Raptor for what the hot-sh*t Frontier or Tacoma with the cool off road pkg costs.

None of this has much to do with Chicken Tax, does it? Or unions. Or Mexico. Or Canada. Or Australia, Big Al.

@DIM

"Howsa boot I pose the question in French"

je suis un crétin.

I never mentioned STD's.

Interesting...I've had them for years.

You prove your side of the debate with some facts and I'll get the KY Jelly.

@papa jim
I would almost agree with the statement or your interpretation of the US pickup market. You have removed the competition from your statement and comparison.

This taints your credibility, sort of like DiM. Papa DiM?

Except you have negated to mention a couple of things. It appears you have had a DiM'esque moment.

First, what about what we receive as global pickups? These should be entered into your argument as they are part of your argument. You just can't place certain biases on your arguments to attempt to gain more credence from you comment, ie, remove global competition when it suits.

Your comment lacks credibility due to your reluctance to make all pickups inclusive, whether global or US.

You only mention US midsizers, which are on par with tractors.

Second, FE? Well, as I've mentioned to many, US policy makes alternative diesel energy less viable and competitive with gasoline. We have pickups that already get 40mpg on the highway, with all of the bling that you hold so close to your heart. I do think our pickup truck and even commercial vehicle fleet FE average is better than the US. So, how good is your FE over your 1/2 ton pickup fleet?

Seating upgrades??? Is this like eating at Micky's, "I want an upgrade" as you pointed out. Why not just make a truck with the best possible seats?? So, a basic pickup in the US comes with a plank on top of two cement blocks??

Off Road package?? WTF?? If you make a 4x4, why do you need an off road package?? In Australia if we had to buy a off road package for an off road vehicle the company will go broke. A Raptor isn't the best example of an off roader either.

Outside of the US, an off road package is buying a 4x4 instead of a 2WD.

As you have displayed with your comment, the US pickup truck is built to a bare minimum, hence all of the upgrading required to make it competitive to a global midsizer.

No wonder you guys don't want to chicken tax removed. That's the way your argument appears papa DiM.

@papa jim - Aw chucks, pa... They started it!

The international aspect has a lot to do with it, actually. What other countries can and can't charge for trucks is everything, when profits are so thin. The way consumers buy trucks, in different markets says a lot, also. Are they mostly used as personal and primary luxury vehicles, such as Al's $55,000 AUD BT50GTistdi in OZ. Or are they mostly used for fleet runners and commercial ops, like in America?

But regardless, Haters gonna hate. If I lived outside of America, I'd definitely envy. But whatever, whenever. If you're into pickup trucks though, America is frickin' Paradise. Not only can you not beat the prices, even before rebates, the selection is unheard of, anywhere else. Everything from mid-size to F-550 pickups.

Though some people still want the selection of Great Wall and other junk, with no intention of actually buying one. They just want the selection. And it's not like they want to buy global trucks 'new'. They just want a huge selection of 'used' global pickups on the market, for a fraction of new. Global pickup OEMs love this aspect of American consumers...

Yeah, no, global pickup OEMs want little or nothing to do with the American market.

Many of those OEMs were here, but ran away screaming like little girls. What's changed since then? Except American consumers now have way more choices in types of cars. CUVs, crossovers, wagons, cubes, etc. And they've gotten used to comfy AWD, IRS, rear air, etc.

But global trucks are "amazing", and one of the top sellers in OZ, is the Nissan Navara. Except for the diesel, it's the same exact truck as the Frontier! But in America, the Frontier is a crude "farm tractor"???

We don't really care about the world's global truck in America. Irrelevant class. 1/2 of those global trucks are pure junk, nobody wants, not even in OZ. Most of the rest of these low profit margin trucks, would interfere with their OEM's highly profitable fwd cars, SUVs/CUVs etc, already sold in America. Some global trucks would interfere with their business partner's cars: Mazda pickups vs Ford vehicles. Isuzu pickups vs GM vehicles.

With the Chicken tax gone, there's no real reason much would change in the midsize truck segment. We'll still not be huge fans of smaller trucks. Not happening. To many better vehicles to love. It'll continue to be a shrinking niche market.

I seen 2 gasoline and a diesel from GMC and Checrolet here in WV a few weeks ago. The diesel had a 16' trailer attached with steel plates on it. I'd say probably 6-7k total. They were probably testing on Sandstone mtn which is 8 percent grade for about 5-6 miles. I didn't get a chance to talk to the guys at the hotel that were standing around them all when I got in.

@DenverlllMike is right most of the rest of these low profit margin trucks, would interfere with their OEM's highly profitable fwd cars..."

We don't want these "highly profitable" american cars to be interfered with....

http://useconomy.about.com/od/criticalssues/a/auto_bailout.htm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-23/gm-car-owners-attack-automaker-bid-for-recall-protection.html

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/06/chrysler-gm-fiat-bankruptcy-opinions-columnists-nouriel-roubini.html

http://www.dbusiness.com/DBusiness/September-October-2012/What-if-Taxpayers-Hadnt-Bailed-Out-GM-and-Chrysler/

@Lou BC - I like those links. But assuming the Chicken tax and other alleged "trade barriers" work, and do keep out several global small pickup OEMs that would otherwise be in America, selling trucks by the million, brands like Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai/Kia, Subaru, Mazda and Mitsu would be the main beneficiaries of said "Protectionism".

@papa DiM and UAW DiM,
So far I've been quite accurate in my predictions of the changes occurring in your pickup market. I never thought of aluminium pickups. But, people are prepared spend lots on SUVs.

All along people like yourselves will argue.

But, Australia has travelled where you guys are heading right now.

Even as close as 2004, people in Australia thought Ford and Holden V8s will be around forever. How wrong they were.

I would even hazard to guess that these aluminium pickups might even be the last of the full size 1/2 ton.

Hard for you guys to fathom. But some will live in the past. Many British did this up into the 60s, remember Britannia once ruled.

Even in the 20th century many British (and other Europeans) refused to believe in the rise of the US. Just like the attitude you two have. Adjusting is hard and I have empathy for you guys.

"We will not change, how is this possible".

Maybe you two should travel around the world, or at least use google.

That's what scares you, there are vehicles that can replace what you thought were invincible. Like our Holden and Ford utes, an Australian icon, gone, like the horse and cart.

What I find really odd is you guys want to protect and industry. But, yet claim that this industry is so strong that no competition will ever overcome it.

So, papa jim and DiM, should the chicken tax, and other technical trade barriers, ie, protectionism of gasoline engines, design, CAFE, etc be lifted?

You guys claim that the strength of the US full size pickup market is that great what impact would removing these barriers have? None apparently according to you.

Bafo, not long ago you were saying the US pickups would get smaller. Didn't happen. Like I've said before, Holden and Ford(add Toyota) are gone because Au let in cheap imports. If you guys had some protectionist measures against slave labor thousands of people wouldn't be out of jobs soon. How did you find out about pricing on 2015 Ford trucks? I always read your posts with the understanding that you don't have a clue about Americans. Are there no truck sites in oz?

@Tom
When will this transformation occur in our workforce? When will these jobs disappear?

Our unemployment because of the GFC has peaked at 6.1%, It is now at 5.8%.

Slave labour? They get paid just like we do.

Australia can say the same about the 'slave' like conditions and the school kid wages that your Detroit workers are receiving. How can anyone live on the UAW supported $12ph?

So, why do US workers only receive a minimum wage of $7.25ph and our industry has to pay $17.00US per hour.

I think you really need to sit down and think about your comment. It is really ridiculous.

Your main problem is lack of comprehension. Who is hiring those workers who will be laid off when your auto manufacturing industry dies? BTW, I don't actually know anyone working for minimum wage. Don't get me started about how much you guys pay for products, a consequence of small market and remote location. Tell us the real reason Au is living nearly on par with the US currently. Raping your land of natural resources to supply China. How long will this last? You talk of the high value of the Au dollar, currently worth .93USD.

@BAF0 - Full-size pickups are in their own category, not just HDs, duallys, etc. You keep saying they're "Protected", so l'll keep asking FROM WHAT??????????

Anything that's can be imported, isn't quite the same. Or even considered "the competition". Except global trucks are extremely similar to our mid-size trucks that are in a shrinking market. Surprising there's ANY market for mid-size trucks. They were just a hot trend from the '80s. The Rubik's Cube is still alive, but only sell a few hundred a year.

If anything the chicken tax has been secretly kept alive by the only OEMs that would feel any impact from global pickup imports. That's Honda, Toyota, Nissan and a host of other offshore OEMs that would be the only OEMs to feel the pinch, if at all.

But the safest cars in the world are right here, babe. I know you're gonna bring up crash stats, but that's a different story. When cars fail to meet US standards, that tells you they're not so safe, gross pollute and or, guzzle gas.

Here's a picture of the 2013 Land Cruiser, still sold around the world. It would fail one safety test just looking at. It's plain as day...

https://www.whatsupwheels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/224289_Full_MedRes.jpg

Did you spot it? I'm not saying it isn't an easy fix, but that's exactly the point... You're talking like these little changes are deal breakers. They're no big deal when it comes to cars, apparently. Import cars that are actually in "demand".

But no one cries for all the cars that don't appear at our shores. WHERES MY TATAS???

It would be simple enough to federalize a Peugeot diesel wagon or Renault flaming Fuego, but would anyone buy one? And I'm sure many would buy them (even though millions of bloggers would claim they would in a frackin' heartbeat), (from their mom's basement..), but what's in it for the OEM to import a few hundred of each? Maybe you know better than them (from your mom's basement...)

oops try it without the "https://"

www.whatsupwheels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/224289_Full_MedRes.jpg

@UAW DiM,
I think the HD discussion you were having was with Lou_BC. Another deflection or 're-direction' of the debate???

I'm discussing 1/2 ton pickups or as you described them "SUVs with a balcony".

As for HDs, I don't see any external competition for the "SUV with a balcony" ones. Hopefully Nissan with the Titan and Toyota with the Tundra will give the 'SUV with a balcony' HDs a run for their money when the 5 litre V8 Cummins come out.

They will be a better option than any gasoline/diesel Big 2 and Fiat have to offer. They should satisfy 90% of what most buy a HD 'SUV with a balcony' style pickup for.

But for the working HDs, ie, HDs used as a truck for commercial applications, we do have alternatives. But we call them trucks. We call your HDs utes as they aren't really trucks.

@UAW DiM
A truck HD used for work in Australia.

http://www.autoscene.com.au/wp-content/uploads/F350-Large.jpg

A ute "SUV with a balcony" HD in Australia.

http://images.australialisted.com/nlarge/ford_f350_lariat_super_duty_nbsp_1999_19427573.jpg

DiM, that's correct these photo's aren't really in Australia, remember you stated we only have one class of pickup.

These are photo shopped ;)

@UAW DiM
These are what we would use in place of your larger HDs and 650 size trucks for work off road. They only have 1 600ftlb of torque or so.

They can only tow 50 000lbs. These are MDTs.

Sort of makes a V10 or 6.8 Powerstroke look little.

And we even make some of them in Australia. Not bad.

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/volvo_fmx_offroading_truck_a_dirt_lover


So, you see UAW DiM, there are alternatives across the globe.

@Tom
Our economy is well managed. It appears I was correct again in regards to our economy drying up after the resources boom.

As for our minerals. Well if the Chinese don't buy them who will? Our mines will be mostly autonomous within a decade as well.

As for the motor vehicle manufacturing industry. It represents less than 10% of the work force in the industry. Even then like I stated we will keep the high paying engineering and design in Australia. Component manufacturers have already made big inroads into exporting components overseas.

So, now the Australian taxpayer doesn't subsidise each and every vehicle here by $2 000. We let you guys subsidise each vehicle you manufacture $3 000 and import them.

"We no stupid". Why work when someone else in other countries tax their people so we can get cheaper products.

Unions, subsidization, protectionism. I love it.........in other countries, as it saves us lots of money.

You keep on slaving away and pay your tax for every car built in the US. We in Australia will reap the benefits of your effort.

Thank you very much Tom, keep up the good work;)

You don't see the picture Tom, do you. Solidarity my friend.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-28/australia-shifting-from-two-speed-economy-as-nsw-catches-slowin/5410002

@Tom
Watch the video in this link.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-25/computer-controlled-trucks-taking-over-in-pilbara-mining-wa/5412642?section=business

@The BAFONoid - Yes 4X4 MDTs are a big hard-on. Ours are aftermarket, as is most of yours, but way off topic. And so what? Who asked? Btw, we're got several import brand MDTs available in America.

But why are you carpet bombing us with all your off topic crap???

Getting back to "pickups"....

So the HD, 3/4 ton, 1 ton dually to medium duty pickups, (balcony or otherwise) are left "unprotected" because of zero global competition?

So would you consider the Tacoma and Frontier "protected" also? What about the Titan and Tundra? And they still barely sell? How can that be?

But according to BAF0, "protected" US 1/2 ton pickups would be on the Endangered Species list because of the threat of some mid-size global pickups in a totally different class of sub par pickups? Trucks that don't even offer real crew cabs? Or 6 man (full-grown, non midget) seating? Or 8' beds? Or 3,000+ payload (especially when big Aussie payload/capacity is translated by the USDOT)? Or 11,000+ lbs towing? Or nowhere near that? What a joke!!!

Actually 1/2 ton pickups also have zero global competition. More like it's the offshore OEMs of mid-size SUVs, CUV, Crossovers, cubes and such that had better watch their backs!

Mid-size trucks also lack the style, tradition and prestige of full-size trucks. They're not what anyone aspires to. Why are we even comparing them to fullsizers? The rich and famous drive full-size pickups. Rock stars and Hollywood royalty drive full-size pickups. US Presidents drive full-size pickups. Business owners, rancher and farmers drive full-size pickups.

Mid-size pickups are what the help/groundskeepers/maids/hourlies drive.

When "pickup trucks" are written into song, they ain't talking Rabbit trucks or Tacos.

And do midsizer truck OEMs really expect us to pay as much or MORE for these cheesy trucks? With equal or WORSE mpg???

Wait for the all aluminum pickup trucks to hit the market. With much better MPG than mid-size. Mid-size weight, but available V8. I'll take an all-aluminum regular cab, short bed with the 400+ V8. 3.73s and limited slip, of course. Just another nail in the midsizer coffin...

@Big Al

your One Size Fits All paradigm is on full display. I want the choice of a 4x4 in northern states where it's primarily a Snow/Ice fighting mechanism. I also want the choice of a dedicated off road package for people who compete, hunt and travel in rough & undeveloped areas--like New Jersey.

The seating is another area where you chose not to think. My requirements call for seating that will happily endure my 6-2, 250 pound body, while my daughter goes about half that weight.

She's happy with the base seating package in her Subaru, and I can barely stand it.

I can keep going but this should help you better understand. Companies competing for the North American market want to offer their customers configurability, and that's where the money is anyway.

Duh!

"The international aspect has a lot to do with it, actually. What other countries can and can't charge for trucks is everything, when profits are so thin. The way consumers buy trucks, in different markets says a lot, also. Are they mostly used as personal and primary luxury vehicles, such as Al's $55,000 AUD BT50GTistdi in OZ. Or are they mostly used for fleet runners and commercial ops, like in America?"

@DM, you really shouldn't have asked that. It only proves how little you really know about the American truck market--much less the global one. Sure, a lot of pickup trucks are purchased for fleet and commercial purposes, I won't deny that, but it is NOT the majority. At best, I would give Fleet/Commercial sales about 50% of the pickup truck market right now with the rest obviously going to private individuals as sport/luxury/utility vehicles. Crew Cab once literally meant moving a crew of workers from point A to point B with their tools and materials to get a task completed. Now it means family seating with all the comfort demanded of a luxury car. Many of those trucks you so disdain because of their nonexistent load capacities are popular because they offer the comfort of a large SUV with the ability to carry the occasional outsized or 'dirty' load that wouldn't fit in an enclosed model. Why is the "SUV with a porch" discontinued? Because ALL half-tons are now "SUV with a porch." It just happens that some of them--the more basic models usually--get used for "real work".

@Roadwhale, Denver Mike

Don't underestimate the fleet market, Roadie!

Guys who drive a certain brand at work every day learn from that experience about the next truck they buy.

I bought my new reg cab 1988 S10 4.3 because I drove a Chevy van at work with the 4.3 motor.

As soon as GM offered that engine in the S10 I bought the first one I found on a dealer lot.

@DiM
You show how little you know of our market.

We don't have after market off road trucks, can you please give me a link to an after market MDT or even HDT off road conversion company. Like this Volvo off road truck in which the smallest one is around the size of a F-650 has 1600nm of torque. It was developed in Australia for global use.

There are more to trucks than pickups and even HDs.

@RoadWhale
I wouldn't even think 20% of the US pickup market is fleet and most of the remaining 30% for business are used as business write off and are SUVs. It would be similar to here.

I think the only debates Big Al from Oz can take are the ones with himself, like which dress he going to wear that given day and which hand he will use to beat off with that night LMAO!

@BAF0 - 4X4 medium duty F-650/750s and similiar class, aftermarket 4X4 MDTs are fairly common in the services, forestry, fire/rescue and utilities industries in America. Also popular in show truck MDTs with pickup beds and RV totes.

Plus E-van 4X4 conversions.

Pics are easy to find as well as conversion companies.

If you don't have them in OZ, maybe you should. How can you not need them? At least import ours.

@RoadWhales - The point of this is the differences in the way pickup trucks are used and purchased in different markets. I mean it's the reason OEMs flock to places like OZ and SE Asia. Even Mexico. They sidestep the American market for several good reasons. Taxes and regs are low on the scale, if at all.


Most Americans can never take a truck seriously that can't seat 4+ adults without their knees up to their chests. Not for their primary vehicle. And have limited work/load capacity.


Mostly it's what Americans are willing, and not willing to pay for a small pickup (for personal use, not counting commercial, public or government uses) that's mostly a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, relegated to occasional weekend projects, chores and play.

That's why bare bones strippers are the popular choice in the small truck segment, for personal, public, commercial and utility, to name a few. Not to mention the normal cheapskates, etc. that love the segment.

Base small pickups are the cheapest (for now), fuel efficient cars you can buy, not counting subcompacts. At least in America. We don't want or need a high luxury pickup that will be parked gathering dust most of the time, while we go about our lives. Strippers are the rule here.

But would you rather have to drive a Corolla or Tacoma? Not only is the Taco cheaper, you can modify an El Cheapo, (birth control) truck to fit your tastes or needs. But a customized Corolla just looks pathetic. Tinting the Corollas windows 'double limo' is about all you can tastefully do. So you're not recognized...

Never mind how crazy expensive small trucks are to build. With not enough compensation in America. Small truck OEMs hate American for those reasons. I'm sure they can think of better ways to lose their A$$!!!

Whooo-EE! Now this is some comment! @DiM, you've really outdone yourself this time!

"But according to BAF0, "protected" US 1/2 ton pickups would be on the Endangered Species list because of the threat of some mid-size global pickups in a totally different class of sub par pickups? Trucks that don't even offer real crew cabs? Or 6 man (full-grown, non midget) seating? Or 8' beds? Or 3,000+ payload (especially when big Aussie payload/capacity is translated by the USDOT)? Or 11,000+ lbs towing? Or nowhere near that? What a joke!!!"
What a joke indeed! Where are your references that we can see this data for ourselves?

"Mid-size trucks also lack the style, tradition and prestige of full-size trucks."
Purely personal opinion of yourself and other mid-size haters. Just because YOU don't like their "style, tradition and prestige" doesn't mean everybody doesn't.

"They're not what anyone aspires to. Why are we even comparing them to fullsizers? The rich and famous drive full-size pickups. Rock stars and Hollywood royalty drive full-size pickups. US Presidents drive full-size pickups. Business owners, rancher and farmers drive full-size pickups."
Maybe they're driving full-sizers because there simply aren't any decent MID sizers available. Quite honestly the Toyota is the best of what's available in the US, but not necessarily the best available elsewhere.

"Mid-size pickups are what the help/groundskeepers/maids/hourlies drive."
And people who want to save money end to end or simply don't WANT anything as big as an American full-sized pickup truck.

"And do midsizer truck OEMs really expect us to pay as much or MORE for these cheesy trucks? With equal or WORSE mpg???"
You're making assumptions based on little or no verifiable data.

"Wait for the all aluminum pickup trucks to hit the market. With much better MPG than mid-size. Mid-size weight, but available V8. I'll take an all-aluminum regular cab, short bed with the 400+ V8. 3.73s and limited slip, of course."
Except that there are still people who simply don't need or WANT all of that. Some people would be quite happy with a 3,000# steel extended cab 6'bed pulling 150 horses and don't even care about limited slip.



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