Take THAT California!

Lol!!!

@Mark Williams,

Is it just possible that southern California is no longer a very appealing place to run a global corporation?

The California legislature is hostile to capital and capital formation. The communities in the LA and San Diego areas are increasingly financing school construction, infrastructure and hospitals using financial instruments that are bound to fail before ever being paid off. Not a good place to start a business or raise a family.

Torrance is probably a great place to have food trucks though!

California taxes itself right out of business. Who will leave next?

I moved out of MD because they were starting to get ridiculous with their taxing. Fuel Taxes, Tolls to drive just about anywhere, and their income tax was ridiculous.

Commiefornia loses another business. The rest of the businesses need to wake up leave all the liberal states.

This is a great example of states competing with each other. In some small way California will have to wake up and change, no different than Detroit in the late 70's. Way to go Toyota, Texas too!

13% CA state income tax at the top end. CA has been going downhill for a while.

Having moved from Cali to DFW myself, this is anything but a surprise. Lower taxes, cheaper real estate and gun-friendly, choosing Texas is an easy decision.

Welcome Toyota!!! Make yourself at home, and bring your friends!

Not surprised at all. California is not a place where a corporation wants to have a HQ. And our idiot Gov. Brown says in a press conference yesterday," You gotta pay to play..". No you don't. Look at the tail lights on the moving truck heading East...

You guys didn't bother to ead where Texas provided a tax benefit equivalent to $10k per job moved into the state. That is $40 million a year in a break. While some commentary may be right that California is expensive to do business in the gist here is that Texas is giving up a $hit ton of tax dollars just to get a few more people into the state. Maybe over 20 years the state can recoup the lost income by ancillary purchases from the individual employees but the first time another state offers something similar companies like Toyota will be up nd moving yet again. Something tells me it won't take 20 years for them to fnd another statewilling to throw away thier tax dollars as a lure.

Overall I am not sure of Texas will truly see any benefits or not but Toyota sure will.

@Mark Williams,

Here are some of the reasons why it makes sense to move to Texas:

* In the annual Chief Executive magazine “Best States / Worst States” ranking that surveys CEOs for their opinions, Texas has been holding on to the No. 1 spot for a while; California seems permanently relegated to No. 50.

* Business Taxes in California are too complicated.

* Burdensome regulations and regulators that have managed to stifle the entrepreneurial energy of thousands of companies.

* Cost of living for employees is SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER in Torrance than in Plano, and housing costs are 63 percent lower in Plano.

* If even Hollywood movie studios are souring about producing flicks in California, you know you’re in trouble.

Great move! Get away from expensive California and foster jobs and growth in more business-friendly Texas.

@howam00

even if all other factors were equal (taxes, etc) being in middle America is huge. Being on the west coast puts you thousands of miles from your partners and customers.

DallasFt Worth is a busy hub for most airlines and you're 2 hours from everywhere except Alaska, Maine and Hawaii.

Not all the jobs lost are in California. Northern Kentucky is losing 1,600 jobs from just Toyota not counting its suppliers. I am not saying Toyota made a bad decision but this is not just about California nor is it just about taxes. The Northern KY and Cincinnati Airport was a thriving airport in 1996 when Toyota set up their headquarters. Since that time the airport has gone from the second major hub for Delta after Atlanta to Delta basically pulling out of the airport. During that time the N KY Cincy airport expanded its runways and added a new terminal to increase the capacity for Delta with mostly taxpayer dollars. This airport has gone from several daily international and national direct flights to one daily international flight and mostly connecting flights. Dallas Ft Worth is a major airport with direct flights which Toyota needs. Chiquita moved its headquarters from Cincinnati, OH to Charlotte, NC not only because of the tax incentives but because of the airport. Kentucky was blind sided by this annoucement and was not given a chance to counter with incentives. It probably would not have made any difference but Toyota's decision was not just made on tax incentives and high corporate taxes alone. Again I am not criticizing Toyota, I am just adding some additional information.

Good and bad.
Good- Cali loses again because of their failed liberal policys.
Bad- Some of those people who vote for those policies will be relocated to Texas and will vote there.

Jeff S, I did hear that last night as I'm in Cincinnati as well. I just figure it was more cost effective to go ahead and move KY to TX as well especially if they built a big enough head quarters.

Northern Kentucky and southern Ohio are one of the two zones of the Rust Belt.

Zone One: most of the residents have all of their teeth

Zone Two: not so much

Sorry that was a feeble attempt at humor on my part.

Actually, Kentucky has a two tier reputation to those outside the state.

Tier one is the wealthy families and old money. Tier two is EVERYBODY else.

Tier one families get invited to the Derby and sit in the VIP suite. Tier two families don't.

Seriously, folks. I grew up on the northern edge of the Missouri Ozarks and people in that region used to drive to Kentucky so they could feel superior to someone.

People in Kentucky used to drive to Arkansas to make fun of those folks but their cars never made it that far. It is hard to feel superior to someone else if you are hitchhiking.

Rimshot!

California is broke and biting the very hands that feed if. It's their last and final option before liquidation and Marshal law or Sharia law sets in. Or whatever it is that happens after a complete shutdown of state and local governments.

About 5 years ago, the Department of Environmental Health started requiring inspections of local business for ground surface runoff. All restaurants, fast food, bars, stores, services, auto repair/sales/parts, veterinary, manufacturing, construction, etc, etc. About everything under the sun. Salons, Saloons, you name it.

Sounds good and all. Until you find out what they want to charge for this inspection. $460 (yearly) or more, for a few seconds 'look-around'

Right from the start, I told them I didn't have the funds (although I had plenty) or if I could make small payments. They gave me an emphatic "NO" and that I'd face "stiff penalties" if I didn't "comply" ASAP. I told them they were FREE to come by anytime during business hours and "inspect" all they want, but I had no money (for them). And that I had absolutely nothing to hide.

Every year that same county office starts with their threats, including having Code Enforcement come by and give me a thorough "shakedown". I tell them the same and they tell me the same. Funny that the "fee" starts new every year and doesn't ever compound or rollover. That part really says it all!

They're becoming the local Mafia at this point. No offense to the Small Truck Mafia (SPaM).

I know Cali is still a destination for the 1%'ers buying up (and driving up) multi-million dollar real estate in towns like La Jolla and Malibu. Otherwise it's a mass exodu of thousands of businesses and corps, big to small, yearly out of Cali. They represent Billions in tax base revenue. And replaced by the poor, coming from all over the US and world. And those damn undocumented Canadians...

Northern Kentucky is a booming area at least the area within 20 miles of Cincinnati, big new homes, malls, and the like. Once you get south of that area its hickville.

Isn’t great to see Toyota move to Texas, they need to go to a new place where they won’t develop new engines. It will also help them to continue to totally ignore Tacoma customers.

@papa jim--I have lived almost 27 years in N KY. Some of your humor is true, but I live directly across the Ohio River from Cincinnati. Most of the people around me are from Ohio or further North. There is the old blue blood families of Lexington. I am not originally from KY, but moved here and lived on my mother's family farm south of where I currently live which has been in her family since 1868. My father was born in Lima, OH and spent most of his life in Dayton except a few years when he was very young when his family lived in Clearwater, Florida. I was born in Dayton, OH but my family moved to Houston, TX where I was raised. I consider myself more of a Texan than a Kentuckian or from Ohio since I spent most of my life in Texas.

Cincinnati is not in as bad a shape as Dayton or Cleveland. Dayton lost their last remaining GM assembly plant which made Trailblazers, Envoys, Ascender, and the Saab version. The Delphi parts plant left as well and just recently NCR moved their headquarters to suburban Atlanta because of tax incentives.

I don't blame Toyota for moving to Texas and consolidating their operations but there is more to the move than taxes and incentives. Direct international flights influenced Toyota's original move to Erlanger, KY and the loss of those flights was a factor in not consolidating operations in KY. Kentucky has been a friendly state and former KY Governor Martha Lane Collins flew to Japan with a group of business leaders and courted Toyota and eventually got the assembly plant in Georgetown, KY. The State of KY is giving Toyota further incentives to expand the Georgetown plant to make a Lexus model. Having good access to travel is an important factor in corporate relocations as well.

Don't be fooled into thinking that Texas is all about low taxes. I moved here (austin) from Seattle, to find that there property taxes are nearly double (and no, we didn't have a state income tax in Washington state either).

Until TOYOTA is UNION who cares. Take your cheap low wage jobs to TEXAS. C-YA!

@Hemi V8, Do you realize your favorite Ram is made in Mexico where they pay $3 an hour!?

Texas doesn't have skilled labor. The best skilled labor force in the car related business is in Ohio and Michigan. The most uneducated people in the country live in Texas. Its hillbilly land!

@DenverMike--The real estate prices in California are much higher than most of the rest of the country. I think that is one of the reasons besides higher taxes and regulations. Toyota doesn't have to pay as high a salaries in Texas or even in N KY where I live. Home prices in Texas are much less expensive and in N KY they are even much cheaper. California has a great climate but the cost of living is much higher. My wife was a flight attendant with Pan Am years ago and was transferred to N CA. She loved it there and at the time she was transferred there the housing costs and the cost of living was not that much higher. Businesses today are looking for lower costs and are much more likely to move to another area when the costs are lower and the State and local governments give large incentives to them to move. Also the Dallas Fort Worth airport has many direct international and national flights. Gov. Perry has been very aggressive in getting businesses to move to Texas.

Californian liberal hippies will never learn

@Jeff S

You had it (half) right in the first two sentences but it went downhill from there. Real estate cost is irrelevant.

Real estate is cheaper in Butt F**k Egypt too, but nobody is building a giant HQ in BFE. More important is taxes, regulation and access to talent.

It's pointless to move a huge center to a place where the average worker has no skills. Sadly, after spending trillions of dollars on public education in this country during the last 30 years, the number of US citizens who are moron-equivalent and illiterate is actually growing.

Dallas Ft Worth and Plano has an educated high quality workforce and the local sentiment is decidedly NOT anti-capital or anti corporate.

Others have mentioned Gov Perry handing out tax breaks but that only works in states where taxes are high to begin with, not Texas (or Florida). There is presently a flood of companies leaving states that don't respect capital, don't value the middle class. Texas loves both--and they buy pickup trucks!

@papa jim--High property prices do not effect the price of the land the corporations get as much as the cost of the available labor. Housing in California is much higher than most of the country. Texas does not have an income tax but the property taxes are high. Texas also has very reasonable home prices. To say that high home prices do not have any effect on the cost of labor is very short sighted.

One of the breaks states and local governments give to corporations is either low real estate taxes or a grace period without property taxes. The taxes in Kentucky are not that high and the state and local governments are very favorable to industry. Toyota could have picked N KY and was considering N KY at one time for all their North American operations but when Delta pulled their hub out of the N KY & Cincinnati airport Toyota lost interest in N KY. Chiquita was given tax breaks as well to move their operations to Cincinnati but the loss of direct flights was a large reason why they moved. Toyota a few years ago even admitted that they were considering other places to expand their headquarters because of the airport. Toyota is keeping their North American parts distribution center in N KY which employs 400 people.

@papa jim--It is over simplification to say that Toyota is relocating to Texas because of less regulations and low property taxes. Those are major considerations but as you said a skilled educated work force and add a more reasonable cost of living where workers can afford to live and where Toyota does not have to pay higher wages to get equivalent skilled workers. Also accessible roads and airports that can handle international travel. Toyota was not just looking for a pro business environment they also had other boxes to check on their check sheet of needs and wants. Most states and municipalities are not like California, they are very much pro business. Even Ohio has been more pro business and has stepped up its efforts at recruiting more manufacturing and white collar jobs to move to Ohio under Gov. Kasich.

Dear Sir,
We introduce ourselves that we are the manufacture of all kind of
“Veterinary Equipment” and export all over the world with excellent
Reputation.

Our company also “ISO 9001-8000 and CE Certified Company”.

"Real estate cost is irrelevant. Real estate is cheaper in Butt F**k Egypt too, but nobody is building a giant HQ in BFE. More important is taxes, regulation and access to talent."

@Jeff S

I was referring to commercial real estate Jeff, but it is really unimportant. The true cost of property is the difference between what you paid for it, and what you sold it for later.

This is why real estate is is not important to all of the companies doing business in California and for that matter New York City. You list it if you want to sell, next day your phone rings off the hook.

Voters in Kentucky are world-famous for voting against their own best interest. Keep sending Democrats to Frankfort and see what happens.

Toyota would have made a huge mistake moving to Kentucky or Ohio. Twenty five years ago it was different but the auto industry has been moving south for at least fifteen years now.

Ohio will be a hopeless case until the voters there overcome the undue influence of urban Democrats in your Congressional delegation.

Rural and suburban voters in Ohio will reliably vote Republican about 75 percent of the time, it's actually a pretty conservative state if you can just zero out Cincinnati, Cleveland, Akron, Toledo and Dayton.

This is not the case in Texas. Houston, and a few districts Dallas vote Democrat. San Antonio, Austin, Ft Worth, Dallas, Plano--not so much.

Toyota made a slam dunk decision and calculated their costs. The only surprise is that it took so long.

@papa jim--Kentucky has become more of a Republican state since I moved here in June of 1987. Even the democratic governors have been more conservative especially Martha Lane Collins who originally went to Japan and courted Toyota to come to Kentucky. Living in Kentucky for 27 years I do know something about KY politics. In Northern Kentucky which includes Boone, Kenton, and Campbell counties you cannot vote in the primaries and have it really count unless you are a registered Republican because few Democrats will challenge a Republican, especially an incumbent unless it is a Tea Party candidate challenging an incumbent Republican. Cincinnati is mainly Democratic within the city limits but once you leave the city limits it is very conservative especially in West Chester which is represented by House Speaker Boehner. Even Dayton has changed with a Republican in the House and a Republican mayor, but Dayton is too far gone for any recovery. I agree that the auto industry has been moving South but Ohio has several Honda plants with one making Accords in Marysville and CRVs in East Liberty. Greenville, IN has a new Civic assembly plant and of course the Toyota Plant in Georgetown is expanding to make Lexus besides Camry and Avalon. Some would consider KY more southern especially when you get away from N KY and go more south. I would not go to Lexington or Louisville and call them Yankees unless you are looking for a fight. With two Republican Senators KY is not that liberal especially with one of those Senators being basically Tea Party. You have to live in a state and know what is going on versus just listening to Fox news. There are more Democrats in Eastern KY but even that is changing. Erlanger, KY isl not losing Toyota because of politics in Frankfort, they lost mainly because of the airport and because Texas offered a much better deal. Not everything is as black and white as many think, there are other factors that don't make the network news or Fox news.

@Jeff S

As usual it takes you all day to make your point and you missed the target.

Your GOVERNOR and his LT. GOVERNOR are both Democrats--you didn't even mention that.

I don't care about your Senators. Republicans are the minority in the US Senate, so Sen. Paul and Sen. McConnell are irrelevant unless the Senate goes Republican next fall.

In the meantime your Governor can VETO any legislation coming out of the Kentucky legislature and make it stick unless his opponents have the two thirds needed to override the veto.

You don't pull on Supermans cape, and you don't mess around with (papa) Jim.

@papa jim--You are assuming that because KY governor is a Democrat that he is anti business. You are very myopic in your views if you think a political label makes you anti business. The State of Kentucky has given tax breaks and incentives to Toyota , Ford, GE, and other businesses under both Democratic and Republican governors. Toyota just received breaks to expanded their Georgetown plant to make Lexus. You must be one bigoted and opinionated person to just see one side of everything. You assume that KY is anti business because it has a Democratic governor and Lt governor and therefore everyone in KY is liberal and anti business. Since you don't live in KY and you get all you information from Fox News then you have a biased view on this. Toyota has said for years that the loss of direct flights was a major factor in not expanding the Erlanger headquarters. Delta Airlines at one time had direct flights to Tokyo from Cincinnati. Need I remind you that Toyota is a Japanese based corporation. Delta has a major lock on the Northern KY and Cincinnati Airport and has not allowed competition until recently.

How's that working out for you and your state, Jeff?

The part of your state east of I 75 is an economic ghost town that was made WORSE by Democrat policies. Can you say TVA???

All of the old coal counties are living off of unemployment comp extensions, social security and EBT cards. And you know where all that EBT money goes, right?

Meth.

Brilliant policy, unless having a bunch of toothless drug addicts wasn't part of the plan.

Run faster Jeff, Arkansas might be gaining on you!

@howam00,
It sounds like all Automotive manufacturers need considerable incentives to keep manufacturing in the US. Even so they are still moving production outside of the US, to much cheaper places. i.e Mexico. Fiat is moving productions of smaller Jeeps to Italy and China.

@papa jim--The Eastern part of KY has always been impoverished and the coal industries problems have more to do with alternatives such as cheaper natural gas and less labor required to mine coal. KY has among the cheapest utility rates in the country. Are you saying that Kentucky is the only place where there is a meth problem and government payments? I find that hard to believe. Maybe you learned that on Fox news.

@papa jim--It makes you feel superior to put down a certain group of people or a certain state. Do you feel superior because you came from Missouri and now reside in Florida? People are people and to judge people on where they live is very narrow minded. Do you feel that way about a person from a different race or ethnic background? Do you wear a white robe and burn crosses in people's yards who you don't like or disagree with you?

@Robert Ryan--Not just manufacturing. DHL moved their freight flights from CVG (Cincinnati N KY Airport) to Wilmington, OH because the State of Ohio gave them tax breaks and incentives to move to Wilmington. After a few years and after DHL went through a reorganization they moved back to CVG with incentives. Corporations shop for incentives from State and local governments and play each of them against each other to get the best incentives. Even though incentives are a major factor, corporations also need certain infrastructure. In Toyota's case a large international airport, DFW, with direct flights to Tokyo and other major World cities is a must. Toyota executives just like any other corporate executive are transferred around the country and the World. There are a number of Japanese families living in N KY because Toyota, Toyota suppliers, and other Japanese companies that have offices in N KY and Cincinnati.

@Jeff S

It's not personal, it's simply a fact that eastern Kentucky has been run into the ground by 1930s social policies--that have failed colossally everywhere else they were tried.

The TVA caused much of it, and it perpetuated the stuff that TVA didn't originally cause.

Today, one of the biggest new industries in your region is Trial Lawyers representing able bodied men who want to go on government disability.

The convenience stores in Kentucky are famous for converting EBT card into "country currency," or canned soda.

Canned soda is legal to possess and isn't easily tracked (like an EBT card is) so the meth folks use truckloads of canned pop as cash.

It is very sad. I've seen it myself. A tragedy unfolding right in the I 75 corridor and it's only getting worse because of Democrat policies. Good luck.

@papa jim--That is true about Eastern KY, but that is just one part of KY. Diane Sawyer had a special a few years ago about Eastern KY and the Mountain Dew rot from people drinking too much soda and their teeth rotting. Mothers will feeding their infants Mountain Dew via baby bottles. People that are born and raised in Eastern KY live there all of their lives and some do not ever leave even to travel. It is not good to judge an entire place on just one area. There are many factors besides tax incentives and who has the most pro business environment. Most States have had to adapt to the needs of business in order to retain and recruit them. If Kentucky were so anti business it would not have a Toyota plant, a GE plant, Clarion, a Ford truck plant, and a few others. I am not saying this to be biased in favor of Kentucky, but without those corporations the State would not have the economic base and the tax base it has now. If Kentucky were such a bad place to do business it would not have been able to retain the businesses it has. Infrastructure is an important component as well, just tax incentives and pro business environment alone is not enough. Texas has all that and a large international airport near Plano. I lived in Texas for 29 years and I also went to school there as well. I graduated from Baylor University and University of Houston and started working in the oil industry.

Jeff S

Kentucky needs to focus on the environment for small/medium sized businesses. The Fortune 500 type companies don't really bring a lot to the game, in terms of economic impact for average folks.

I'd rather have 5000 thriving mom/pop companies in my state than ONE global company like GE.

@papa jim--That is another topic in itself. It is harder for small/medium size companies to survive in an environment of large corporations and government regulations. Yes I said government regulations, but that will always be with us like death and taxes. If a small/medium size company is successful it will either grow to a larger company and/or get acquired by a larger competitor. Still another topic. It is something that a company like Google, Apple, and HP started in California despite California taxes and regulations. Of course Dell Computers was founded in Texas as was Compaq Computer which was bought out by HP which proves my point that if you are successful then you are a target for take over. Weed Eater was founded and invented by a Shell engineer in Houston, TX which has been bought and sold by several corporations. There are medium/smaller businesses in Kentucky but the population is much smaller in KY and the lack of major East/West roads are a negative. State taxes and regulations are a major factor but to say they are the only factor is misleading. Without more major roads it is hopeless. Sure there is I-71, 75, and 64 but they are North/ South. Where I live there are a lot of warehouses such a Amazon, Toyota parts distribution, the GAP, Carl Zeis, and others because of I-275 East/West loop. Being on a major interstate opens a lot of opportunity for recruiting business. Most of KY is harder to access because of the lack of major East/West roads. Trucking is still the number 1 method of transporting goods and good roads are a major consideration for corporations.

@Jeff, long answer to a short statement!

It's simpler than all that. Companies avoid places like Kentucky for a key reason: Elites.

A small number of very rich and politically well connected people.

Kentucky's elites are deeply entrenched and refuse to compromise. If I'm a Boeing or a HP there's got to be some meat left on the bone after the elites are done with it. The elites are not accustomed to doing it that way--plus, they own things in Frankfurt and don't have to change.

Unless someone strikes oil there (or gets a NFL franchise) I don't see it changing. The mom/pop businesses will do ok. Invest in them.

@papa jim--Businesses haven't avoided KY. Yes there are elites but they are every where. In Texas the elites are mostly in Dallas where the old money lives. Houston is a newer much more vibrant city where you can literally not have anything and become a mulimillionaire. The founder of Gallery furniture did just that in the early 80's. Question have you ever lived in Kentucky or Texas? How can you be an expert about a state if you just drove through it and watched to Fox news. It sounds like you are very one sided in your options and cannot consider other factors as well. I know some Christians that are that way that are quick to judge others. I remember an assistant miniister at one of the largest Baptist churches in Houston telling me that a latino women that had visited the church should be discouraged from coming back because "we don't need her kind " despite the fact that she was beautiful and polite and was a native Texan whose ancestors lived in Texas before it was a republic or state. That same minister didn't want any blacks as well. I left that church after awhile for a variety of reasons one reason being that same minister told me I didn't consult with him first before I got engaged and that he didn't approve of that person despite she was a member of that church. I was a director of one of the older singles classes and very involved in that church. I have been happily married to my wife for almost 28 years.
The World is not as black and white as you portray as and usually there are more than one reason an individual or business makes a decision. I doubt Toyota is that interested in Fox news.

@Jeff S

You know only one song, from the sound of it: Fox News. I never watch TV news, Jeff. Relax.

Kentucky's economy is a classic basket case. It has been that way for years. Read the history of the Tennessee Valley Authority. Learn something.

Stop listening to Diane Sawyer too. I've got more brains in my doo-doo than that girl's got in her whole family. If CBS is where you get your information, good luck.

While you are at it. Check out how CBS treated their reporter Sharyl Atkisson. Since you care about the news so much.

@papa jim--I'm surprised you don't listen to Fox News, you espouse their views. As for one song, that is like the pot calling the kettle black. Your view is everything is the Government's fault. Talk about closed minded. I admit the Government has its own share of faults but I will not blame them for everything. Life is a lot more complex than your black and white view point. As for Kentucky, I am not a big fan of the state government or its policies, but if you are looking for the bad in everything then its not hard to find. Since you dislike Kentucky and think that everyone who lives in Kentucky is on the dole and taking meth then you don't have to drive thru the state. I am sure Florida has some nice scenery like the recent sink holes. Of course if you miss the sink holes Kentucky has that as well in the Corvette musuem. It must be the liberal elitist in Frankforf that causes those skink holes. Maybe they threatened a new tax and God swallowed them up. Those sinners are doomed to damnation. Maybe you could save them since you know everything.

Three critical mountains that Kentucky has to climb in order to overcome its economic problems, Jeff.

Your state ranks either last place (1. and 3.) or 49th. Only one state has a worse debt load than Kentucky.

1. Kentucky is not a right-to-work state (ranked #50)

2. Debt service as a share of state revenue in Kentucky is 13.2% (#49)

3. Kentucky levies an estate tax (#50)

These numbers are almost impossible for Kentucky's working-class population to overcome because very powerful interests created the conditions--and they like it that way. Sorry, Jeff but it's a tough nut to crack.

and there's more, Jeff.

Kentucky ranks 43rd in GDP per capita, 47th in median household income, 47th in citizens with high school diplomas, and, at 18.6%, is 48th for percentage of the population below the poverty line.

Kentucky also has an extremely weak S&P (bond) rating of AA-

When states do poorly in this analysis it means that families have to pay more in taxes to support police, hospitals and schools.

It's the worst-run state in the country.