GM's Next HD Duramax May Rival Ram and Ford HDs
The waters in the heavy-duty segment are starting to boil. According some of our sources, the next-generation Duramax from GM is likely to be a 2016/2017 model and will get several improvements to provide more horsepower and more torque. Improvements in both of those areas will put GM's HDs much closer to the Ram HDs' 400 hp/850 pounds-feet of torque and the 2015 Ford Super Duty's 440 hp/860 pounds-feet of torque.
We're hearing the new turbo-diesel engine slated for the Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500 and GMC Sierra 2500/3500 models will use the same 6.6-liter Duramax block but offer a smarter injector system and a more sophisticated electronic control module. Preliminary reports indicate 440 hp and 850 pounds-feet of torque.
GM has made no official announcement about the Duramax changes, but we're guessing the powertrain team went into high gear when Ram Truck pushed the high-output 6.7-liter Cummins inline-six-cylinder ratings on the 2013 models. And with the current 2015 Super Duty Power Stroke delivering the highest hp and torque numbers around, some kind of GM response was inevitable.
PickupTrucks.com is deep into the planning stages of another Heavy-Duty Challenge (remember our "2011 Heavy-Duty Hurt Locker" test?) in which we'll compete the best and strongest 2014/2015 diesel one-tons and gas-engine three-quarter-ton pickups the three big truckmakers have to offer. We'll have more details as we get closer to our late July publishing date, but you can expect all the HD tests we can think up for this one. More to come.
Manufacturer image
Comments
"GM's Next HD Duramax May Rival Ram and Ford HDs"
I'd hope so, seeing as their 1/2-tons didn't.
The 2016/2017 GM will put it much closer to the 2015 Super Duty. Yes, but Ford has a new Super Duty coming in 2016/2017. So all bets are off and GM may need to go back to the drawing board again just like on the new half-tons.
Wonder what Ram is coming up with. Their normaly last to release their info. And also wonder when the point will come where one won't wanna out do the other when one finaly admits the other is better and don't try to raise the bar again or will the point even come?
GM is fighting a losing battle.
I would have thought GM would use a Sintercast CGI block and reverse flow heads on the next Duramax. I guess that's not going to happen. I'm also very interested to know what Ram is up to. Also, why have these trucks remained with 6 speeds when other categories are moving on to 8-10 speeds?
500 hp/1000 pounds-feet of torque would surely send the message to the competition.
@Alex - agree. I would of thought that GM would be coming out with an 'all new" Duramax and not one more tweak of the existing motor.
As much as I would love for Ford or Ram to win the next "Heavy-Duty Hurt Locker" with their "higher" horsepower and torque figures over the Duramax, you can ignore the fact that the previous winner (Chevrolet) was able to do more (win) with less (horsepower and torque) than Ford and Ram. Any owner of any of these fine Heavy-Duties can be proud regardless of the competition winner! Each of these platforms are engineering marvels. Leaps and bounds better than what you could get ten plus years ago! All hail The Big Three!!!
"can ignore"
Sorry. Make that can't ignore.
Buy American,
The Hurt Locker that Chevy won was 3 years ago though. Things have changed since then. Ram has added more capability and Ford increased theirs.
In the last HD test, last year, King of Beasts, Chevy couldn't participate because GM wasn't strong enough to compete with Ram and Ford. GM needs to step it up.
Jajajajaja
here we go again, another GM May catch up to the rest 3 years down the road, yet by 2017, ram and ford will be way above those numbers and again GM will be on the bottom, saying they will catch up 3 years down the road, its a vicious cycle.
I don't know why some knock the new GM 1/2 tons, while I think the syling is a bit conservative, they have a higher quality then Ram and Ford, They also are the best driving/handling trucks out their. Not always the fasest but they have plenty.
What I REALLY want GM to do is come up with injectors that last far longer than those short-lived (and very expensive to replace) injectors they use in today's Duramax. Enough is enough.
Is funy gm allways have the best diesel and puller wy they said close from dodge and ford,,???
"Why Is Ford's F-150 Losing Ground to the Ram?"
After four months, a trend is emerging
It's only the beginning of May, but we can see some trends emerging.
Through the first four months of 2014, sales of the F-Series are up 3.9% over the same period last year. That sounds like a modest gain, but remember: Harsh winter weather kept U.S. auto sales down across the board in the first quarter.
But has the F-Series lost market share? While total sales of General Motors' (NYSE: GM ) all-new pickups, the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra, are down a tiny bit -- about 0.6% -- from year-ago levels, sales of Fiat Chrysler's Ram pickup line, which was refreshed for 2013, are up 23% through April.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/05/03/why-is-fords-f-150-losing-ground-to-the-ram.aspx
I think their is a mistake as the current Duramax has 397hp and the Cummins Ram 3500 has 385hp not the 400hp stated which was the old number for last Power Stroke.
To the best of my knowledge, the Duramax has yet to be beaten in a head to head competition by an independent tester(maybe one run up Davis Dam?). To say that the Duramax has ever been behind the Cummins or Powerstroke in the real world is fanboy talk. Around here at the truck pulls (stock and otherwise) it's probably 50-60% Cummins, 30-40% Duramax and very few Powerstrokes. Wonder why that is?
I knew it was only a matter of time before the ford flamers would arrive to attack this post on GM's next DURAMAX. Ford makes a good truck but their fans absolutely SUCK! they cannot resist to attack and bash GM. some girly men ford fans bash GM no matter what they come out with. They can't help themselves mind you. They have self esteem issues and they can't stand the thought of any truck being better than their fix or repair daily ford trucks.
So for you ford lovers who have to continually bash GM, this is showing your petty jealousy of GM.
I personally love the looks of the GM trucks. I have always said beauty is in the eye of the beholder or beer holder. I think once people see the next 2016 HD GM they will like it alot.
We have so many critics on this board that must feel threatened by the new 2016 Silverado they have ALREADY STARTED to try and pick it apart when they know NOTHING about it. I bet GM will gain market share with their much improved Heavy Duty truck. I can't wait to find out who makes the most powerful diesel engine with the most horsepower and torque. My money is on the Duramax!
So let it be written, so let it be done.
The small V6 engine will go the speed limit and haul and tow as much as anybody needs, unless you are pulling a 40 foot , 5th wheel trailer with 30,000 lbs and traveling across the country you don't need a 450 HP, 850 lb torque diesel engine.
These power numbers are getting crazy. I love competition, but here in NY you would need a Class A license to tow what these trucks are capable of. Not many people want to spend $5k in CDL training. I have a class B CDL and I cannot operate a half ton pickup to its max towing legally.
Bob's personal gourmet chef
When watching football on TV and a Ford Truck commercial comes on I hold my head up with pride knowing my friends and neighbors are also watching football that own another brand of truck are thinking of ME and the Ford Truck I own!
BUILT
FORD
TOUGH
I do think some of the pickup truck journalist fraternity have forgotten is the Titan and Tundra will be coming out with the 5 litre Cummins V8.
These will be an annoyance to the Big 2 and Fiat Ram.
Many people just don't want or need a 1 000ftlb engine in a truck. These will be the "midsizer" of HDs. Very capable and can achieve pretty much what required for a heavy pickup.
Even for towing a 5 litre V8 diesel will be able to tow what 95% of what current HDs are towing.
Most HDs I see are not towing that are used for work and have single cabs. Counties, construction, etc use these vehicles with many different backend configurations, sort of like out midsizers.
The Titan and Tundra will be focusing on the DenverMike SUV with a balcony HD buyer.
@DenverMike and His fellow clowns and aliases
Bigland stated that Fiat doesn't want to sell pickups under $22 000 in the US. Fiat can, but won't and you are telling me about prices? And you think he a good guy?
So you are accepting that you guys should pay the prices we are paying in Australia and more, you want to pay $40 000 for a pickup as long as its not a midsizer? We don't pay that for a mid spec truck. Why do you think the US consumer should?
Have a look at the $27 000 Ram. What is its capability, it isn't truck like at all in performance.
I told you the price of trucks will rise in the US if nothing is done to remove the barriers and CAFE regs. The $27 000 under performing Ram is an indication of what's to come.
What I'm talking about is doing what is right for the US consumer not the UAW or Big 3. We aren't talking midsizers either. The midsizer argument or anti American argument is getting long in the tooth.
I'm not saying either that full size trucks are bad. Learn to comprehend and not misinform.
You are scared of what I'm discussing or you wouldn't come back with baseless retorts. Read what I'm writing not spinning some pro UAW spin to save your uncompetitive jobs.
@Numpty the F4cktard,
So you don't approve of the Tundra and Titan comment, why? Not from Murica?? You are one f4cked up puppy.
I see you still aren't smart enough to come up with your own comments.
At least you could use your own name. Oops, can't remember your name?? To much drugs and alcohol last night? Brain fried?
This wouldn't surprise me at all.
@Numpty the f4cktard,
So, you are worried about Nissan and Toyota.
What about all of your Mexican pickups. They would be on par with Chinese stuff.
Dodge will win the power war. People forget that Cummins has automotive engines that go all of the way to 15 liters. Ford and GM stop at 6.7 and 6.6 respectively. I want a Ram 3500 Mega-Cab with an 15 liter ISX. Game, set, match, RAM!!!!
@DenverDetroit, yes you're from Detroit :-)
Are you upset with the events on TTAC?
It is apparent that whenever you have a debate with me on TTAC multiple posts appear on PUTC. I know, it's hard for you to multi post on TTAC, what a pity.
Stick to organising UAW placards on a Detroit street corner.
I'm surprise the UAW selected you for this role. Do they pay you wages (a true socialist would never accept a salary) with the fees collected from the rank and file?
If the UAW rank and file read your crap they would protest and quit the UAW. I would feel ripped of and let down. Maybe Michigan should have a vote on free labor laws.
Then Michigan might advance. It's odd that the states with free labor laws are outperforming the states that are strangled by unions.
But, how can we have freedom in the US should be one of the mantras of the UAW. Oh, it already is one.
And yes, I do know what going on at the state level in the US.
@Numpty aka Denverstool/TRD X4 Tom/Dave
You feel threatened by me?
What?
Was it the Nissan Titan blog? Non UAW workers building them?
I've been thinking about the Titan's and Tundra's and I do think the one truck will come as Class 2 and Class 3 pickups. The Class 3 versions will come with these V8 Cummins.
I think the Big 2 and Fiat will have some competition in the lower end of the HD market. This is a smart move by Nissan and Tundra. There will be plenty of demand for the Cummins Titan and Tundra.
Hino diesel's are too heavy for this application. Toyota as I've stated don't have any decent diesel's in production.
Cummins is making good use of their products.
This is what the Big 2 and Fiat Ram have to be aware of. These pickups will offer a true intermediate capability that the Big 2 and Fiat Ram can't match.
These will offer better power, FE, durability, etc than any Eco Boost/V8/Hemi pickup, with the capapbility of an HD. Nissan and Toyota have to be on a winner here.
Unless a 25% tax is levied on 'un Murican' US pickup manufacturers ;)
.....................................................................................................................................................
A cut and paste from the Cummins site.
Diesel will provide light truck customers the combination of towing capacity and mileage that is expected in the highly-competitive North American truck marketplace.
With a torque rating in the mid-500s (lb-ft) and more than 300 horsepower, the Cummins 5.0L V8 Turbo Diesel will provide light truck customers the combination of towing capacity and mileage that is expected in the highly-competitive North American truck marketplace.
http://cumminsengines.com/cummins-5l-v8-turbo-diesel
http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/toyota-tundra-set-receive-cummins-diesel
.....................................................................................................................................................
What this space!
@Ram Big Horn 1500 - ha ha ha ha. Wow. Freedom?? I’m a bureaucrat, everything has to be negated at first, including freedom.
Yes, we have the freedom to be stupid, and I exercise that freedom every day!
@BAF0, The topic is GM's next gen HD, Ford and Ram. This is not a Tundra topic for you to go off on. Please only comment about the specified topic in the blog post. If you will not cooperate, you will be banned.
This engine is a Cummins ISF, from what I'm reading global production looks to be from China.
The ISF can come up to 3.8 litres. Looking at the Nissan power and torque figures a 3.8 should be able to produce 300hp and over 500ftlb of torque.
This should be able to be used as a cheaper entry level engine in a HD.
Some food for thought.
http://www.primemovermag.com.au/products/item/cummins-isf-engine
@Don Davis
This article is discussing what's going to occur with HDs within a couple of years.
So, I do think your comment is out of place.
And the Titan and Tundra will play a role in HD sales.
So, you guys from the Big 2 and Fiat don't like competition, but I personally think Nissan and Toyota are onto a good thing.
They will compete with HDs at the bottom end of the HD market. They will be cheaper to own and operate than a Big 2 and Fiat HD.
Why do you need 1 000ftlb to tow small loads when 550ftlb will suffice for more than what 95% of HD buyers tow.
Hopefully the link I provided will give you guys an idea on the power/performance/FE of the next V8 Titan, or at least what you can expect. If it is like the Y62 Patrol it will be extremely competitive in V8 form, especially FE.
It appears they have grafted a Y62 Patrol front end of this Titan, that's why it looks odd. The Patrol must be a bit wider.
Also below is the fuel figure for the new Y62 Patrol. Not bad for a V8. Check out the economy on the sand, about 17mpg.
13.8 average is about 22mpg, not bad.
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/55905/2013-nissan-y62-patrol-australian-road-test-launch-review
@Don Davis
Also, the majority of the posts aren't mine, they are being posted by the local PUTC troll.
Maybe you should have a chat to Mark Williams.
BAFO
There nothing wrong with Tundra and Titan. They are made in USA.
Mexico make good Ford GM and Ram pickups too.
Just like Obama on their way out thank goodness!!! it only cost us which means u and me about 10 billion!!!!
@Mark Williams
Can you please stop the guy using my name.
Your IT guys will be able to work out who the 'villan' is by my previous post.
@Tom Lemon/DenverMike/TRX-4 Tom and all the other detractors,
The more you push the more I will become resolute.
What I find intriguing is that you have labelled me a midsize zealot, when in fact I don't support anything.
I give midsize feedback because you guys don't have what we have.
You seem to talk about midsizers much more than I do, you must very interested in them.
Give it up, between all of you I don't think you are convincing.
It's all well and good to be loyal. But loyalty can only go so far.
When there is a plethora of facts and data supporting an argument it becomes rather boring. Sort of like re-inventing the wheel, if you have heard of that phrase.
Most of the time the impression I'm gaining is that I'm debating the same person, but with different names.
Post what you want, I have proven all of you are just ignorant and fearful of what you deem the unknown.
Our country went more or less what you are going through now. You have nothing to worry about. No matter what happens in your vehicle market there will always be some form of light commercial vehicle.
I do think some of the pickup truck journalist fraternity have forgotten is the Titan and Tundra will be coming out with the 5 litre Cummins V8.
These will be an annoyance to the Big 2 and Fiat Ram.
Many people just don't want or need a 1 000ftlb engine in a truck. These will be the "midsizer" of HDs. Very capable and can achieve pretty much what required for a heavy pickup.
Even for towing a 5 litre V8 diesel will be able to tow what 95% of what current HDs are towing.
Most HDs I see are not towing that are used for work and have single cabs. Counties, construction, etc use these vehicles with many different backend configurations, sort of like out midsizers.
The Titan and Tundra will be focusing on the DenverMike SUV with a balcony HD buyer.
It is a sad day when we talk about dodge im sorry ram vehicles being better than chevy\gmc vehicles.In my humble opinion dodge fiat or whatever they are called are the biggest pieces of junk out there.All the people I have ever known that have owned any Chrysler dodge ram and especially jeep products have been sorry for the day they spent their hard earned money on any of these vehicles without exception.Just goes to show how far Gov motors have fallen.
This story is comparable to a CNN Malaysia Air 370 search story.
Why doesn't the Big 2 and Fiat come out with a smaller engine HD to compete with the up and coming Tundra and Titan.
Sooner or later the Big 2 and Fiat will realise that most people don't need the capability of 1 000ftlb for most HDs.
Have them, but also offer a more marketable alternative small 5 litre diesel.
A modern 5 litre diesel will work very well for 95% of HD use.
@ ford man
I was quite satisfied with my (fiance's) first Chrysler-Jeep (1993 Wrangler S) back in 1995 that my wife and I added a 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited to our collection. We eventually traded our ten year old (115,000 trouble free miles) Wrangler for a 2003 Wrangler Rubicon. Adding a 2005 Ram Power Wagon to our fleet has been a pleasure. With approximately 500,000 accumulated miles between four Chrysler products I am a fan of the products!
@Ken--at last we agree on something. Bravo!!!
I do think some of the pickup truck journalist fraternity have forgotten is the Titan and Tundra will be coming out with the 5 litre Cummins V8.
These will be an annoyance to the Big 2 and Fiat Ram.
Many people just don't want or need a 1 000ftlb engine in a truck. These will be the "midsizer" of HDs. Very capable and can achieve pretty much what required for a heavy pickup.
Even for towing a 5 litre V8 diesel will be able to tow what 95% of what current HDs are towing.
Most HDs I see are not towing that are used for work and have single cabs. Counties, construction, etc use these vehicles with many different backend configurations, sort of like out midsizers.
The Titan and Tundra will be focusing on the DenverMike SUV with a balcony HD buyer.
How dare they play or modify Isuzu's work of art.
Are GM engineers smart enough to play in there?
GM is struggling.
Go Ram, Go Ford lol.
"Post what you want, I have proven all of you are just ignorant and fearful..."
@Big Al, do you read this stuff before you hit the button?
I searched for the most flattering way to say it, not wanting to hurt your feelings. File under pathological:
--Egocentrism is characterized by preoccupation with one's own internal world. Egocentric people are unable to fully understand or to cope with other people's opinions and the fact that reality can be different from what they are ready to accept
The comments to this entry are closed.