So what's everyone's take on the F in front of the C?

@Scout

My take on the C and the F?
It's old news. Get used to it.

Good job, Fiat, on telling us what's happening in 2017 and 2018.

"Here's a reason why you shouldn't buy any of our trucks right now. They suck compared to what's coming next."
Sincerely,
Fiat

Good news for Ram/Chrysler, and more bad news for government motors

I think the Ram is over rated, yea its got some nice features like air suspension and 8 speed tranny, but the truck is largely the same truck since 1994, yea it got some new sheet metal in 09 but the basic foundation is the same.

What Fiat is doing seems to be working, I mean Ram has had sales gain each month for past 4 years.

@Jack isn't it the same with all trucks? Pretty much same thing just little update here and there... Ford and Chevy both do the same. All Ford has done in the past 10 years is change their grill in 2015 they are just changing what they build their trucks with... Chevy has pretty much looked the same past 20 years. Ram got the new "Big rig" style in 2009. I mean they pretty much redesigned there trucks. Ram has been setting the bar with air suspension and an 8 speed trany and the first diesel in a half ton. And best in class towing in all trucks. But when facts look you in the face Jack there just too over rated huh...;)

That will be an old 1500 by then! 2009-2017 (assuming new one is a MY 2018) 9 years. Even GM through a bankruptcy only went 7 years. (MY 2007 - 2013) Mind you I'm sure Ram won't be as conservative as GM!

Previous Ram 1500s:
MY 94 - 01 8 years
MY 02 - 08 7 years

I guess 9 isn't too much longer given the constant upgrades.

Just seem song given Ford is going MY 2009 - 2014 6 years.

Funny you think that Jack. I see Ram as the most innovative and forward thinking company of the bunch. Ford Super Duty is the same truck it introduced in '99. (minus the plethora of problematic diesels it changes every few years, and front sheet metal). GM has been ultra conservative in their styling and engines as shown by their latest offering. Toyota is selling the same truck it debuted in 2007, minus a few sheet metal changes, and Nissan...well it hasn't changed a bit since 2004. Meanwhile Ram has introduced a light-duty diesel, and consistent model upgrades and refreshes. And how can you say the foundation is the same? From solid axles/leafs to IFS/Coil springs, I'd say that is a pretty big change. Much more of a change than any of the competitors. Not to mention their interiors are by far the best of the bunch. Looking at the F-150 reminds me of a power-wheels I had as a boy. I used to be a GM guy, but Ram has won me over with their willingness to push the envelope and try new things.

The floor pan is exactly the same on the Ram since 1994 with the same big ass hump where the passengers put their feet and the same mediocre 41" of front leg room my 1995 Ram had. The ceiling is low and the backseat isn't that big compared to other crew cabs except maybe Chevy. The 5.7 Hemi is outdated only offering cylinder cut off. They stuck a V6 motor from their cars into the truck and got a Deisel from Italy that was suppose to go into Cadillacs.

People expect to much

Right now the Ram is by far the nicest of all the trucks, inside and out. I think Ford will close that gap with redesigned trucks - not better, just different, but definitely just as good. I'd like to see the big diesels get better than 25mpg on the highway empty. If Peterbilt and Cummins can get a tractor trailer to 10.7 mpg WITH the trailer, then I think 25-30 should be possible on a Class 2/3 with no trailer.

Not also to mention the maintenance is way higher on a Ram then the competition. I mean changing 16 spark plugs every 30K. Really this is 2014. Also the poor roll over safety rating is a real turn off.

Jack just park you lil toy and get with the real truck program. All of the big 3 manufacturers in the fullsize line up have updated engines frames cabs and if you do a little research you will find that Ford also has 16 spark plugs on most of their V8 engines. Ford was the first to offer twin plug per cylinder spark plugs with them in the 4 cyl ranger.

Coltc, I guess I won't buy a ford either at least if they require plug changes every 30K. By the Way I'm sure I'm more versed then you on updates as I am fully aware most manufactures have updated engines although Ram not so much at least with their Hemi, its gotten more horsepower but that's about it.

I just went to a 2014 Ram from a 2007. Hard to believe the same manufacturer made it. The 2014 is refined, comfortable, quiet, and has high quality components inside and out. The 2007 treated me well, but the interior was done by tupperware and it was pretty spartan, even if you got a fully loaded version. Things are going to keep improving for Ram, including eclipsing Chevy for #2 in sales.

Frank Jack,

Hemis now have 100,000 spark plug changes. That started in 2013.

Then jack thinks because the 2014s have a floor pan that has a hump in it, it is the exact same truck as 1994. Never mind in 94 Rams had solid front axels, leaf spring rearends, c channel frames, engines and transmissions that were barely adiquate. then thinks the Hemi is outdated even though all it took to equal the ecoboosts (which has VVT, DI, Twin Turbos) mpg was an 8 speed transmission. BTW jack, the hemi also has vvt.

Remember, when ignorant people post on the internet, it makes them look like an idiot.

My advice jack, do research before posting, don't just go off what your friends, or other manufacturers have told you.

Uraidiot it is the same floor pan, Dodgetalk.com had a question and answer when the 2009 Ram cam out and specifically asked that question to one of the engineers and he told me it is the same floor pan design. So don't talk about things you don't know. FYI I haven't rulled the Ram out as my next purchase just some thing bother me about it.

Fixxa the Car Antonio!

Jack
These guys love their Ram Pickups more than their own wife and kids!
You'll never see a dirty Ram pickup out there!
If you notice the guy driving a Ram he's not looking at the road, he's always looking around at other drivers to see if they notice and are looking at his Ram Pickup.
If you tell him that engine is not a true hemi design, you better run!
Everybody knows rear coil springs are better than leaf springs.
Those wavy body panels on the Ram pickup are designed that way to make them stronger.
That whinning noise the power steering pump makes on the Ram is the sound of power.
The select dial gear shifter switch is a better design than that old fashioned steer column shifter.

jack

As pointed out in others posts as well. The ram has probably changed the most since 94.

(this list is only the 1500s 4x4s since 94)
1 all new frame 2002
2 heavily refreshed frames 2009, 2013
2 all new body styles 2002, 2009
3 mildly refreshed body styles 1998, 2006, 2013
4 all new engines, 4.7 2002, 5.7 2003, 3.6 2013, 3.0 2014
2 refreshed engines 4.7 2008, 5.7 2009
1 mild refresh engine 5.7 2013
2 all new front suspensions 2002, 2006
3 all new rear suspensions 2002, 2009, 2013
2 all new transmissions 545rfe 2002, 8hp 2013
1 mildly refreshed transmission 65rfe 2011
2 all new interior designs 2002, 2009
2 mild refresh interior designs 1998, 2006
1 heavy refresh interior design, 2013
2 all new wiring architectures 2002, 2013

(this is just the obvious stuff)

But more power to you if you think that if the floor pan design is the same then (to use your words), "the truck is largely the same truck since 1994" or "the basic foundation is the same."

tom

How would you know about, "If you notice the guy driving a Ram he's not looking at the road, he's always looking around at other drivers to see if they notice and are looking at his Ram Pickup." unless you were looking around to see if other people were noticing you as well?

The rest of the stuff you pointed out never happens to other trucks right? Personally I would rather have "wavy" body panels then rusted out fenders of gms and fords. I would rather have whiny power steering pumps then blown turbos or cold start knock. If you would rather play with a phallic like column shifter, more power to you.

Bahaha FCA = F#$kn Crappy Automobiles :)

It does look like Fiat management has been great for Chrysler and its subsidiaries.

Before we get all glassy eyed with the Ram lovefest one has to look at what the competition is doing:

1. GM - zero threat especially with the disaster recall of the week saga, and new "old" trucks. The only potential threat may be the Colorado/Canyon with a decent payload with a diesel engine. HD upgrades are late to the game.
2. Ford - all depends on the take rate on aluminium trucks and itty bitty engines under boost. HD's - when will they get a F**in' new frame and body?
3. Nissan - they are getting the diesel that the Ram 1500 should of got - potential small threat to Ram.
4. Toyota - has had combined sales in the past on par with Ram. They could take a bite out of Ram if they also get the 5.0 Cummins engine. If that happens they will be a much bigger threat than Nissan (or GMC Sierra).

Things look good from that new Ivory Tower in the Netherlands.

@Lou_BC,
Sergio is only introducing some of Fiats Global Offerings. Difficult with IVECO as all of their products, except the Australian Powerstar are Cabovers.

You have to admit, the Ram fanboys are the most vocal of all. They easily turn obnoxious from their lack of education and intelligent things to say, so they turn to insults and pointing out other's flaws. Dodge/Ram has been the floor mat of the automotive world for so long that they feel the need to let everyone know that "they've arrived." The problem is, the only people who believe them, is other Dodge/Ram fans and the other morons who own those pieces of $hit. I will bet any amount of money that Ram Truck fans collectively have the lowest education of all manufacturers. People who have money and prestige wouldn't go near a Dodge/Ram, and with good reason. Sorry, but it's the truth.......now here comes all the obnoxious Ram fans to defend in 3 2 1...

Chris, funny that you mention intelligence. And since Intelligence is often tied to education, and education is often tied to income I'll leave this here. It is a quote from rams 5 year plan today.

"Ram also has the lowest average age of the “big three” pickup makers (52 vs 58 at Ford and 59 at GM), and the highest household income of buyers ($91,000 versus $85,000 at Ford and $77,000 at GM)."

Also, I'm going to point out it has been the "anti-ram" guys that have been posting the unintelligent nonsense today.

Here come Chris with more obnoxious nonsense.

I recently purchased a 2012 Ram 5.7 & I will say comming from a 2008 Ford 5.4 3v all I can say is Wow! Luv the Horse Power & the truck & it tows my trailer with ease!

I think Ram has a good future, possibly at the expense of GM and Ford.

Like Lou I do believe the Titan and Tundra with the 5 litre Cummins will do well. These will take sales from the 2500 and maybe a very 3500 HD Rams.

Ram with the VM diesel is good for now, but people who are after a small diesel pickup will have the future Frontier and Colorado to compete against. Oooooops, I forgot. They can't compete against a full size Ram, sorry, guys, my bad.

I seems most of this thread is about d!ck size and not product.

One thing, I would like to see is a midsize Ram offering.

The vans, well, the US will follow the path of the Europeans.

Jack,

That hump in the passenger floor board is there for the downpipe on the cummins turbo diesel engine trucks. However, the cab on 1/2 ton trucks it the same cab as 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Just thought you might like to know there was a reason for it to be there.

"Ram pickups will get updates in next five years"

"Ram is by far the fastest growing pickup brand in the U.S. now and sales are also increasing in Canada, Bigland said."

http://www.freep.com/article/20140506/BUSINESS0103/305060127/1207/business01/Ram-pickups-will-get-updates-next-five-years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OJszd_QeSA

Here is Ram's future...................

"Ram: As one of FCA’s other big profit centers, Ram is a key brand for the company, but exists largely in the NAFTA region. The half-ton trucks will see a refresh in 2015, along with a redesign in 2017, with heavy-duty trucks getting freshened in alternate years. Aluminum will likely not be a part of the new trucks, as Ram feels that the diesel half-ton truck is competitive against Ford’s aluminum RAM, and has been downplaying the durability and cost-effectiveness of the aluminum F-150. On the commercial vehicle front, a small Ram ProMaster City, based on the Fiat Doblo, bows this year.

• FCA is dangerously reliant on both Jeep and RAM for their profits. A 2008-like combination of spiking gas prices and a downturn in the economy (especially housing starts, which are a key driver of pickup sales) could leave FCA exposed to both falling demand for gas-guzzling trucks and have a severe impact on the high numbers of FCA vehicles financed via subprime rates. These less credit-worthy borrowers would likely be the first to default on their payments, and a mass repossession of FCA vehicles could be another blow at an inopportune time.
•There has been no mention of how the substantial increase in NAFTA sales will come without any additional NAFTA capacity (something Sergio Marchionne has previously sworn off). Jeeps imported from Italy and Brazil (and even China) could be an option, but booming sales of Ram trucks couldn’t be built anywhere else. Marchionne’s comments about his distaste for two-tier wages could also spell trouble for his hourly workforce when it’s time to negotiate their contracts in 2016."

That will save PUTC from doing the cut and paste on the FCA press release.

"...The future says Ram was foolish and spoke too soon. Communication is the name of the game, but why talk about the 2018 trucks now?"

@Dr Phil, you better stick to your TV show because you don't understand corporate finance.

RAM may be about pickkup trucks, but Fiat is a corporation and its executives want to drum up excitement for their potential stockholders. Making announcements about future opportunity is what CEOs do, doc.

@Dr Phil,

Try it the other way and see which one makes more sense. Do you really want to tell investors that the good days are over and the future sucks?

Really, stick to the TV show.

@Lou_BC
I do think Ram will increase market share of full size 1/2 ton pickups in the US. This will occur when Ford and GM release the aluminium pickups.

Toyota Tundra and Nissan Titan will only challenge the VM Ram 1500's marginally. I think the diesel midsizers from Nissan and GM will be a bigger challenge for the diesel Ram 1500.

I don't like the aluminium formula from Ford or GM.

The next big news release from Ford might be a 2 litre EcoBoost F-150. Believe it or not the 2 litre EcoBoost will move the aluminium F-150 quite easily.

@Lou_BC
The 2 litre EcoBoost comment was a joke (before everyone makes a remark).

Uraidiot http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ram/1500/2014/body_paint/distorted_sheet_metal_at_front_door_handles.shtml#1

Tom

Link you posted had ONE COMPLAINT. A 6 year old with google could find similar complaints for every truck brand. Get a life, your hatred for an inanimate object should be of a concern to you.

@ tom#3 http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/274830/

If you read it he says ALL 2014 Ram 1500's have wavy metal on the doors, some are distorted in a different way, and dealers says that's normal

Well, just as long as ONE COMPLAINANT says all rams have it, then it must be true.

Quit trying to troll, you are horrible at it.

I will withhold judgment on toyota with the cummins 5.0. One thing for sure, it will not be a cheap option in comparison to the ecodiesel.. It will be a good motor, but I would buy an HD rig rather than buy bigger diesel in a 1/2 ton chassis. Cummins claims about 550 ft lbs. I wonder how firm toyota's committment to cummins will be:
"Both Toyota and Nissan would like a larger chunk of the U.S. light truck market, which last year moved over six million trucks through dealer lots. For 2025, CAFE standards push for a fleet target of 54.5 MPG, making a fuel efficient diesel a necessity for Toyota. The Cummins is thought to a stop-gap for Toyota, as they reconsider their in-house diesel engine produced by their heavy-truck arm, Hino Trucks."

One can only hope they'll be better than my 2012 ran 2500 company truck.

@ Scout,

REMEMBER IN 1999-2007 THEY HAD DAIMLER IN FRONT OF CHRYSLER !!

DAIMLERCHRYSLER !! Mercedes used Chrysler's profits to boost Mercedes up..

Furthermore,Mercedes was totally surprized Chrysler's prototype cars were running,driving,doors shut ect....as Mercedes prototypes were non runners,and doors sagging,non shutting..

FIAT-CHRYSLER IS A BETTER FIT...

FIAT,MASERATI,FERRARI,ALPHA ROMEO,CASE,IVECO, Magneti Marelli, Automotive Lighting,VM Motori -Chrysler Corp owned VM Motori decades before Fiat bought them..

@Chris,

RAM has the highest educated and youngest buyers !

So much for your bashing as we all know,GM,Ford,Asian Import owners are the most ignorant loud mouths around.

@ Tom#3,

That's odd,I went to a local dealer just now .. 5 min from my office looked at about 120 RAM Trucks in sunlight,30 in black others in other dark colors,and they are not wavy ect as you say...Just more RAM bashing we heard for decades.

@Lou,

Could be Renault-Nissan and Toyota if they use the Cummins could also take a bite out of Ford and GM,I think more so then RAM as GM/Ford have no 1/2 ton with a Diesel.

@Cory - Ram's 1500 diesel is hamstrung by piss poor cargo capacity and okay tow ratings. (Tow ratings suck if one factors in tongue weight).

I doubt that anyone is going to cross-shop a Chevy 5.3/6.2 or a Ford 5.0/EB 3.5 against a Ram Ecodiesel.

The Ecodiesel is already being marketed as an alternative to the gassers sold by Ram V6, Ford V6, and GM V6.

The problem is the Ecodiesel will cost much more than any of those options.

Will the Ecodiesel hurt Ford or GM...... I doubt it.

The Cummins V8 will appeal to guys wanting something smaller than a 800 lb/ft 10k as an option HD truck.

Ford's new 2.7 litre EB will most likely out perform the Ecodiesel in every metric except mpg.

I'd consider an Ecodiesel if the truck that it was placed into had better tow/haul ratings. I'm not so worried about towing but if they can't sell me a 1/2 ton crew with longer box that can haul 1500 lb of passengers and gear, it isn't even going to make my purchase long list let alone find its way on my short list.

the fact that Ford's Transit van comes with a diesel and the EB3.5 as options means that Ford could offer a diesel rather quickly. GM is the only one without a diesel option for 1/2 tons BUT they will have a diesel Colorado/Canyon which most likely will have better haul ratings than Ram and will most likely have better mpg.

@Lou_BC
Yep, the killer for Ram is it's load capacity.

The diesel is currently uncompetitive with the gassers. But give it time. Aluminium trucks will change this disadvantage Ram has. I also think that the US manufacturers are profiting a from the 'new' diesels.

There is room for a downward movement in price of a diesel Ram.

I've mentioned in the past that a 4cyl diesel costs the same as a V6 and a V6 diesel about the same as a V8.

With the 2.7 Eco Boost I don't see a huge horsepower engine. I see a small gas engine with lots of torque. Maybe similar to the 3 litre Ram diesel.

The FE will come from the aluminium as much as the new engine. It will be possible for the new 2.7 EcoBoost to gain at least a 10% FE advantage in a aluminium over a 3.5 EcoBoost in a steel pickup.

So, the Eco Boost will be not much better than a Ram Pentastar, but a damn sight more expensive.

PapaJim, I'll give you that Macaroni was trying to get some buzz and excitement. You are absolutely right.

But what were the results? Shares fell 12% after the 5 year plans was presented and investors didn't like what they heard. See I told you it wasn't exciting.

PS Chrysler's US headquarters is moving over to London.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140508/OEM/140509814/fiat-chrysler-headquarters-will-be-in-london-marchionne-says

@hemi madness/hemi forever/RAM fever/Dodge-guy/Alex/Big Al from Oz/HemiV8/John&Yoko/Toxic Sludge/JeffS/ReeferMadness/or whatever you’re calling yourselves these days…

From today’s headlines:

Chrysler posted a loss of $690 million for the January-March period. Without one-time costs of $1.2 billion, the company’s net income more than doubled to $486 million.

In January, Fiat, Chrysler's parent firm, paid $3.65 billion to a UNION-RUN HEALTH CARE TRUST (caps mine) to acquire Chrysler’s remaining shares.

The combined company expects to list its shares on the New York Stock Exchange in the fourth quarter of this year.