So you can tow 1,600 lbs. more in a heavier crew cab vs. the double cab simply because of the small change from 3.42 to 3.73 axle?

PUULLLEEAASSSEEE.... that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. 150 RPM will barely even register on the tachometer. That isn't going to make a difference in towing ability. I just lot some faith in the new standards.

WXmann, the tests for the new standard is pretty extensive. It's not just about engine power. It includes braking, handling, acceleration on grade, traction, etc.
I think now that the big three are using this standard, there should be a refresher article to detail all the tests again.

WXmann,
The difference is the NHT max tow package, which includes the axle ratio change. That package also includes enhanced cooling, updated rear springs, etc. We highly recommend it if you are doing serious towing with a light duty pickup.

How does a 4x4 v-6 RC pull more weight than the same truck with 2WD. Can't remember the last time I saw that.

Two big variables on trailer ratings are the chassis and cooling. In some cases, 4x4 trucks have stouter chassis and/or better cooling than 2wd models. If you click through to the releases, there is a lot of good detail from SAE on just what J2807 entails.

Good move GM! Now it is time for Ram to backup their claims! But I doubt they will be any hurry because they are all show and no go!

Sometimes a truck is to light to handle a certain weight of trailer as well. A heavier truck won't get pushed around by the trailer as much.

Will be interesting to see what happens to ram's payload capacity and tow ratings. As low as it is, I wouldn't be surprised if it is overrated. I've been shocked at how little I can put in it before it starts squatting.

It seems that many people still think power and acceleration are what dictate tow ratings.

Anyone notice how for the 6.2 the 3.23 axle is standard and 3.42 is listed for max trailering? I thought 3.42 was standard and 3.73 was max tow just like with the 5.3.

wow. all the heavy towing equipment you have to have on the chev for max towing is standard on all towing packages on the tundra........ i agree a CC towing more than a Reg. cab means they are skewing the numbers somewhere. i too have just lost some respect for it..... Seems like the cheaters will always find a way to stretch the numbers.... i'm sure Ford will one up it somehow with their BS..... I suppose Toyota's numbers remain as always, very conservative.. Being that i towed 12,500 with my CM tundra with absolutely no sweat i would say Toyota must be sandbagging. So much for apples to apples.....

Where is Tommy? Couple of quotes from him:

"Good, about time.

GMs 1500 numbers will drop like a rock"

Posted by: TRX 4 Tom "Someday the people that own a Ford are going to want an automobile"-John Dodge | Feb 10, 2014 10:32:41 AM

"Expect some GMs to lose 800-1200 pounds capacity. Atleast"

Posted by: TRX 4 Tom "Someday the people that own a Ford are going to want an automobile"-John Dodge | Feb 11, 2014 8:51:31 PM

@hemi lol
I have to ask has the Tundra ever been outdone fairly even if majority of it's engineering debuted back in 2007? I personally don't believe any one automaker cornered the market on smart engineers. So with major mechanical (chassis and engine) updates from the big 3 since the 07 5.7L Tundra made it's debut one could simply see that the Tundra would only have a higher tow rating than the one truck that made fewer major mechanical updates that being the Nissan Titan. I love my 2010 Supercharged Tundra and wouldn't trade it for any of the newer trucks from the big 3 even if they tow more, have more power (standard) and get better mpg. I am not going to bash anybodies numbers without proof all I ask is that all of them comply.

Does anybody know if having a rear electronic locking differential makes a big difference towing over being open diff? If so how? That and the ITBC which are not part of a Tundra max tow package and now Autoblog has me wondering.

Tom Wilkinson (or anybody else) - can you clarify the point that truck454 raised: Does the NHT package with the 6.2 have 3.42 or 3.73 gears? The press releases linked to above say 3.42 for the NHT with the 6.2, but I too thought it was 3.73. Is it 3.42/3.73 for the 5.3, and 3.23/3.42 for the 6.2?

Thanks!

@Radek TRX 4 Tom just hates GM trucks and I think I know the reason why his ex wife must of left him for a guy that owns a Chevy LOL!

Any ways I figured the numbers would be pretty close cause GM said they use the J2807 standards when testing the 2014 trucks.

There is a rear axle ratio change for the 6.2s for 2015. We will have full tech specs closer start of production.

@Hemi lol open the link and look at trucks that are configured the same the regular cabs in this article are v-6 powered, most fleet 1/2 tons are v6 powered.

all of these are 2wdon similar wheel bases
Regular Cab, 8’ box 9,800 lbs. / 4,445 kg. – 5.3L (3.42 axle)Double Cab, 6’ 6” box 9,500 lbs. / 4,309 kg. – 5.3L (3.42 axle)
Crew Cab, 5’ 8” box 9,400 lbs. / 4,264 kg. – 5.3L (3.42 axle)

Your toyota isn't rated to tow 12,500lbs thats not safe isn't just about your engine and transmission.
I have a 2010 Ford F150 SVT Raptor with the 5.4l V8 4.10 axel ratio 133" wheel base ford says it can tow 6000lbs, on the other hand a 2010 F150 Fx4 with 3.73 super cab 145" wheel base max tow and the same motor and transmission can tow 11,200 lbs you would think that because mine is shorter and has lower gearing that it should out tow the fx4 but it doesnt. the tundra crew max SR5 in 2wd form cannot tow more than 10100lbs on a 2014 that drops to 9800 lbs when 4x4 is optioned .
All of these trucks are systems that have to work together to tow these loads one weak link in a modle or a configuration causes that modle or configuration to not fair so well. what this tells me is that while the ecotec 5.3 might not beat the Tundra up hill with a trailer at the respective max wieghts it will be able to do it safely and reliably. It all comes down to liability if you got in an accident towing that much over your wieghted rating you could open your self up to lawsuites and being droped from insurance. Not to mention damaging your vehicle that toyotas engineers say should not tow more than 10100lbs. I trust their engineers to know what the vehicle that they developed can safely do. and they dont think you should tow more than 10100 lbs with a crew max tundra 9800 if its 4x4. And thats a fact.

Tom Wilkinson at Chevy, Bring back Howie Long for commercials! The new commercials stink.

Tom - thanks so much for answering. Is that due to the eight speed (he asks knowing he's probably not going to get a straight answer).

And if you can't answer that, can you tell us which transmission was in these 2015's that were used for the J2807 tests?

@AD, according to Fords web site the elocker vs open diff does not affect towing on comparably equiped trucks, but most trucks that are max towing from ford are only avalible with 3.73 elocker on ecoboost 3.73 LSD is avilble only on HD payload pkg, and the open 3.73 is only on 3.7 v6 . so if you wan t max tow on an f150 you need to get the 3.73 elocker but if you take a truck without max tow the elocker selection doesnt make a difrence in tow ratings

I want to say thanks to Tom Wilkinson from Chevy for coming into the discussion and I hope you will continue to offer up factual, credible information to those that venture into the comment sections for clarifications or amusement!

@ Carilloskis

There is a VERY good reason that extended warranty companies charge less for extended coverage on a tundra than any other truck. wanna guess why? better parts and more conservative ratings and thats a fact too..... Its a part of life that people overload there vehicles, thats why they are designed to handle much more without failure. you shouldnt do that on a daily basis mind you or even frequently but i would wager ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY that my 2010 Tundra with 53000 miles on it will outlast ANY half ton GM of any configuration pulling said 12,500 lbs. Its just a simple fact of engineering and parts that the tundra will last longer. Ask anyone who actually works on them all.

I also want to thank Tom Wilkinson at Chevy for his factual info. Its a nice surprise in the comment section

hemi lol is having a slow sales day like every sales day selling them tundras LOL!

'Bout time!

Looking forward to the rest of the manufacturers following suit so we have some actual APPLES to compare to our apples instead of the pipedreams that the big 3 have been spewing all these years.

The Tundra is the epitome of long lasting engineering? Give me a break!

Until Toyota does the right thing and designs a fully boxed frame from stem to stern, no triple tech junk, and resolves the on going AIP issue and comes up with a tailgate that you can actually load cargo on, the Tundra is just one huge compromise compared to the competition.

(...also, props to Tom Wilkinson for addressing questions in the comments!)

I agree - thanks to Tom for answering. That was pretty cool.

So what do you guys think: was this done with the current 6L80, or did GM wait for MY2015 so they could do the J2807 tests with the new eight speed? My money's on the eight speed, even though it hasn't yet been confirmed.

@AD - E-lockers do not change tow ratings but they do have a huge affect on performance. The Ford and GM e-locker as well as traction/stability control have similar engagement and disengagement points. That makes me believe that it is mandated by government.
The e-locker in 4x4 hi and 2 hi will disengage at speeds greater than 25 mph (41 kph) and will not re-engage until one is below 20 mph (32kph).
If one disables traction/stability control it will re-engage at speeds above 35 mpg (56kph).
If one engages 4lo then the e-locker will stay engaged up to 62 mph (100kph) and will re-engage under 56 mph (90kph). That in itself is really stupid as who runs 4lo at those speeds?

For anyone who actually uses their trucks in tougher environments this is a problem.
I like to save 4x4 as a last resort when out in the back country alone. I've had traction control re-engage on long hills in deep snow or muddy conditions and loose power and had to back down the hill and engage 4x4 just to make it up the hill.
I had an F150 with an E-locker for 9 days last winter and I did not like it because of the engagement and disengagement parameters. If one does not disable traction/stability control when the e-locker is engaged it will kick in with wheel spin and cause wheel hop and chatter.
I'm sure the anti-ford guys will pipe in but some Chevy guys I talked to had similar problems.

I'll take a limited slip rear over the e-locker any day as it suites my driving environment better.

people please goto towing school before you read into this, a 1/2 ton with a 12K pound trailer rating does not mean you go buy a camper that weighs 12k dry, you will kill that truck, what really matters, and I wish PUTC would mention this, is weight carrying and non weight carrying ratings, which is basically weight distribution vs non weight distribution. In the case above, the 12k rating is WITH weight distribution, the actual rating hooked to your bumper hitch is only 5K or less depending on model, so if the boat in the pic above weighs 5500lbs that truck is over weight.......half tons are not ment to tow with these ratings, I can show anyone how a camper that has a dry weight of 6500lbs, would be too much for the half ton trucks with 12K ratings.....

My bet is the reason for the axle change is because the 6.2's get the 8 speed. I believe in the GMT 900's that was how the 6l80E first appeared. They dropped the 4 speed and 4.10's and added the 6l80 and 3.73 for the 6.0 only for a year

@ nitro - good point and another factor is cargo capacity. Many 1/2 ton pickups would need to have zero passengers and nothing in the box to be able to tow anything close to the max rating for that configuration.

A prime example is the Ram Ecodiesel Laramie Longhorn 4x4 crew cab long box. It has an 880lb haul rating. If you weight 180lb that means 700 lbs left for weight on the truck. If one assumes a low figure of 10% tongue weight and using an equalizer hitch that transfers 20% of the tongue weight to the trailer you can't tow more than 8,750 lb.
If you have a family of 4 that includes 2 teenagers and some gear you will be unable to tow anything.

Actually, I heard that the new Fiat 1/2 tons can't use > 1 7/8" hitch ball--it'll exceed the payload... .

Boy howdy this is gonna get interesting,real fast now.GM threw out the first weights.Now lets see if Ram,or Ford try to match 12,000 tow rating GM has posted. We were at 11000 lbs for 2014 model year, but with the so called weight savings Ford is still claiming it will still lead in the highest tow capacity for 2015.So they would have to go from 11,00lbs to 12000 plus lbs with no 6.2L available for 2015. Ford will have to rely on the 3.6L Twin turbo,to do the work of the 6.2L.If they decided to throw in the 3:73,with the 3.6L twin spooler or higher gear to try and beat the 12,000 lbs trailer weight from GM. Also interesting is that GM pickup only comes with a 6.2L mated only with a 3:42, to tow 11,000 no 3:73,or 4:10. I can see that the Federal fuel mileage mandates are making harder and harder now.Rams chief engineer for Ram trucks already stated that Ram feels any thing over 9000-10,000 range needs to be towed with a 3/4 or 1 ton.So I see only lower ratings for Rams 2015 in 1/2 tons but only by 400-700 lbs depending on the configuration,axle etc,I really thought they would make the jump to 11,000-12,000 range but there current best puller only pulls 10,450 I believe.5.7L, 8 speed,3:73 axle maybe,not sure.Wow J2807 is hear and GM upped it's towing from 11,000 in 2014 to 12,000 lbs for 2015.

@Lou the only truck that i have used the elocker in is my raptor which lets you use it in off road mode at any speed, an off road mode would be nice on the regualr f150s with e-lockes for people who needed more taction and to haul things, and im with you on its a govenment thing as it preforms how you described when not in off road mode mine disengages at 25mph the G80 on my GM did the same thing anyone know what speed the Power wagons elocker disengages at. Oh and GM has mechanical lockers (G80) not electronic Fords and tiatn Pro 4xs have them

Wow, looks like that "magic fairy dust" wasn't as effective as some peckerheads made it out to be.

(Assuming everything really is on the up and up with these #s.)

How come when you walk into Chevy Dealer showroom and you ask the salesman if the Chevy is J2807 Compliant and he says: "I don't know" or "I will have to find out" or "If it is will you buy it today"
I always thought the salesmen are experts that know everything about the vehicles they sale.
The typical "I have no social life" poster in PUTC knows MORE than the typical salesman knows about pickups.

Isn't that right Lou BC ?

Tundra is better. HemiLOL probably busy sell a lot of trucks. Toyota will surpass GM, Ford and Fiat-RAM for sales crown in 2015!

@DeverMike/Paul/Tom Lemon/Greg Baird/TRX4Tom/Dave/Hemi V8/Tom Terrific/sandman 4x4/lautenslager/zveria/Bob/US Truck Driver/Glenn/Jason/Hemi Rampage/smartest truck guy/Maxx/SuperDuty37/Ken/Ron/johnny doe/jim/ALL1/Frank/Idahoe Joe/The Guy/AD/Casey/papa jim/Young Guy/BeeBe/Steve/Chris/The truck guy/Alex/Mr Chow/Yessir/All Americans/Scott/Buy American or say Bye to America/Ram Big Horn 1500/Hemi Monster/Tom Wilkinson at Chevy or whoever you want to call yourself.

Quit the crap, really.

It's getting long in the tooth.

You want to debate, but it has to be on your terms.

Learn to debate with good information, then we might be able to have a decent debate.

Opinions are good, but if they are only your view to support the UAW, then how good are they. Look at what you guys have done to Detroit.

Terror tactics (union tactics) don't work on me.

If PUTC wants the UAW or whatever to control this site I suppose it's their decision.

It's not kids like I've been told by PUTC.

That's not really that surprising. GM and Ram both probably had their numbers ready for when Ford released theirs. GM needed some good press with all the recent negative press, like they're saying "look guys, we really do care about safety". I'd expect Ram's numbers to be out soon as well, I'm sure they have them already.

@Big Al from Oz

very good post.

UAW domestic fans need to go!

Toyota #!!

Quality and safety the best!

ram hacer el mejor camión en camión chevy mundo es la máquina de baja calidad barato

One last thought -- the new Silverado and Sierra were engineered with J2807 in mind, so in some ways, that made the transition easier.

There is a lot of work that goes into a truck that can meet J2807. For example, the Davis Dam gradeability test requires that you can climb the grade with the a/c on max cold, with ambient temp at the foot of the grade no lower than 100 degrees F. You have to maintain 40 mph, with no warning lights and no fluid loss.

If you can do that, you know you have some good reserves for the less strenuous towing and hauling most LD pickup drivers do.

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful discussions. Please tow safely.

I'm disappointed. I thought the ratings would go UP. GM knew this was going to happen and it would've give legitimacy to applying pixie dust to boost tow ratings.

They were uniquely positioned to make the "our standards are tougher than any other standard out there" statement.

@ Tom#3
Point 1 - you sound like a typical salesman.
point 2 - advanced education allows for a good wage and a ton of free time.

Just a side note to a hot topic Popular Mechanic just did the last test of the out going 2014 Ford F150,against all the others.Interesting number was the F150 Ecoboost verus the Hemi 5.7L.It was done in conjunction with Cars.Com,and of course her sister website Pickuptruck.Com.

@Bravo1
That story was on this website 1 year ago
Popular mechanics only listed the subjective score and didn't creat a ranking of the trucks just listed them in Alphabetical order the link below has the rankings and you can even look up all the stats and test methods.
http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06/2013-light-duty-challenge-results.html

@Lou_BC

Point 2 I can say with confidence that I'd rather have a guy with moxie and street smarts any day, that ten guys with advanced degrees.

One exception. People who have obtained advanced degrees from top institutions had to A: work hard, B: Be smart in order to get that sheepskin.

Most colleges hand out sheepskin like it's free lunch (except that it aint free by any means).

@Greg, "Good move GM! Now it is time for Ram to backup their claims! But I doubt they will be any hurry because they are all show and no go!

Posted by: greg | Jun 19, 2014 8:39:58 AM

REALLY????

Wasn't it Ram that smoked all other 1/2 tons in up hill towing and 1,000lb payload handling? DONT WORRY ABOUT RAM. WORRY ABOUT G.M'S NEXT RECALL AND WHEN YOU NEED TO TAKE YOUR CHEBBY BACK TO THE DEALER AGAIN. LOL