EcoDiesel Engine's Popularity Isn't a Problem for Ram and Jeep

EcoDiesel II

The relationship between Ram and Jeep may seem like a simple one on the surface (Ram makes pickups for Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and Jeep makes SUVs), but you can bet there is much more to this dynamic duo. For example, take the 3.0-liter EcoDiesel. Jeep got the little Italian-sourced V-6 for the Grand Cherokee last year. It received many positive reviews from the media for the power plant, as well as praise from Jeep enthusiasts who appreciated the low-end torque and vastly improved fuel efficiency.

Ram started shipping its highly anticipated Ram 1500 EcoDiesels to dealerships last March with strong success. From what we're hearing, the early ordering surpassed expectations and sustained ordering numbers could be as high as 8 to 10 percent. Not bad for a powertrain option that adds at least $2,850 to the pickup's price and $4,500 to the Grand Cherokee's price.

According to Automotive News, Mike Manley, Jeep CEO, says there's no reason at this point in the ordering and sales process to think Jeep will need to give up any EcoDiesels to Ram because of capacity restrictions. But what if there was? What if either Jeep or Ram had a runaway ordering frenzy? How would either settle or sacrifice its own need for EcoDiesel engines while knowing another brand in their stable is in desperate need of the engine?

At this point, EcoDiesel capacity seems to be a zero-sum game, meaning there are only so many EcoDiesels to go around and, for now, both Jeep and Ram seem to have enough to satisfy demand. But we could be getting an early look on how future disputes (like whether Jeep will be allowed to design and produce a pickup truck) will be resolved.

It was also recently announced with little fanfare that the heads of Ram and Jeep were given seats on the FCA board of directors, which, we were told, was to give their points of view a larger voice within the company. From where we sit, this is either one of the biggest (potentially huge) unions of power we've seen in a long time or one of the biggest competitions we're likely to ever see — all sitting under the same roof. How it works itself out or how Reid Bigland, head of Ram, and Manley decide to work with one another could determine much of the success (or failure) FCA is likely to encounter well into the next decade.

Will Ram get more V-6 EcoDiesel capacity from Jeep if the numbers start climbing, or will it likely get more EcoDiesels from the 3.0-liter inline-four-cylinder engine that's now available in the ProMaster commercial van? And will Ram ever allow Jeep to build a midsize pickup truck and possibly take sales away from a half-ton (or some other new) Ram? Who knows. Maybe Ram or Jeep will have to compromise or maybe the decision gets pushed down the road a few more years. Either way, there is much for GM and Ford to worry about, especially if Ram and Jeep ever decide to join forces.

Manufacturer images

 

Jeep Gladiator II

 

Comments

8 to 10 percent doesn't seem like much at all. Not a failure but not exactly a home run. What will be telling is what percent are ecodiesels a year from now.

hi yall I am a liberal wally wolrd greater if you talk shlt about me and my kind I will curse you with driving a ram till the end of your existence! be carefull be very very carefull! or you will drive a ram with a hemi FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHUAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

@The Real Lou
Rile them up I did. I guess I had nothing better to do.

Until PUTC decides to address the issue of trolls, they are here to stay.

@beebe
What I said earlier in the comments, before all the trolls came is that I think Ram is offering the Ecodiesel at this point in time to set a good foundation for the future.

In other words, I don't think sales figures are as important now as they will be in a year or 2 when the other diesel start to hit the market. Ram will already have the advantage because they don't need to spend extra R&D $$$$ like everyone else will when they decide they want to offer a 1/2 ton diesel option.

In February, Ram president Bigland estimated that up to 30% of Ram 1500 would be the diesel.

Now PUTC is hearing anywhere from UP TO 8% to 10%.

That would be 1/3 or less of the original estimate and 74%+ less sales than he originally estimated when the dealers ordered all those 1500 diesels.

@HEMI MONSTER - it is frustrating for those who want to have an open conversation about trucks.

I do agree that Ram will have a jump on the competition. If Ford releases a diesel F150 in a few years time Ram will be on to upgrades and improvements.

I was told that the owner of a local electrical company bought one hand has been getting 9 litres/100 km or 26 mpg US travelling to Vancouver BC. The same guy was getting 13litres/100 km or 21.4 mpg US with a Ecoboost F150 over the same roads. In comparison the same guy was getting 14 litres/100 km or 16.8 mpg US with a Ram Cummins.

correction 11 litres/100 km = 21.4 mpg US.

FLASHBACK

Ram 1500 EcoDiesel selling like hotcakes so far

"Bigland estimated that the EcoDiesel could make up as much as 30 percent of 1500 sales. We're sure there's a significant amount of pent-up demand for this truck; it will be interesting to watch..."
- AutoWeek, 2/19/2014

Wait for it......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

@Lou
If the Ecodiesel meets someones needs like an electrician who might not have a high payload capacity, then it's a great choice if really gets anywhere near to the advertised MPG.

Ram certainly cannot afford to underestimate the demand of the Ecodiesel. It's hard going into a market that no one else has entered for the last 20 year and try to estimate demand.

As things stand currently. I don't think FCA has anything to worry about in terms of having enough supply of the VM diesels.

If things pick up when the Titan comes out, then they might have to end up cutting back on diesel Jeeps to put the engines in Rams instead. I am pretty sure if they ever had to make that choice, they would choose Ram over Jeep.

Diesels are hard to start when the weather is cold.
The diesel nozzle at the pump never stops right causing a mess all over the outside body of the truck.
Fuel filters are messy to change.
Got to use 911 fuel treatment in the winter or the diesel fuel will gel
Turbo chargers never last in any diesel
Where I live diesel fuel costs 50 cents more than gasoline.
A diesel engine costs 4 times more to rebuild and repair than a gasoline engine.
Oil changes on a diesel costs more cause most hold 10 qts oil
The 15W40 oil is never on sale at Wal Mart
Only a few gas stations, convienence stores have diesel pumps, you may have to drive 5 to 10 miles out of the way for diesel fuel.
Valet parking isn't for diesel trucks, and not allowed to park a diesel in a closed parking garage.

To celebrate being the FIRST EVER back-to-back Motor Trend Truck Of The Year winner, we took a RAM 1500 EcoDiesel and loaded it with a custom 5 ft trophy for a "VICTORY LAP" from RAM's assembly plant in Warren, MI to Motor Trend's headquarters in El Segundo, CA.

follow the adventure here:http://ramvictorylap.motortrend.com/

@HEMIMONSTER
An electrician who doesn't have a large payload??

I do think you'll find a VM Ram will pretty much do what a Hemi Ram will do.

As for the R&D costs. How much R&D will there be? These engines already exist. There is an engine drivetrain available for most any application the US requires with a diesel.

@DeverMike/Paul/Tom Lemon/Greg Baird/TRX4Tom/Dave/Hemi V8/Tom Terrific/sandman 4x4/lautenslager/zveria/Bob/US Truck Driver/Glenn/Jason/Hemi Rampage/smartest truck guy/Maxx/SuperDuty37/Ken/Ron/johnny doe/jim/ALL1/Frank/Idahoe Joe/The Guy/AD/Casey/papa jim/Young Guy/BeeBe/Steve/Chris/The truck guy/Alex/Mr Chow/Yessir/All Americans/Scott/Buy American or say Bye to America/Ram Big Horn 1500/Hemi Monster/Tom Wilkinson at Chevy or whoever you want to call yourself.

Quit the crap, really.

It's getting long in the tooth.

You want to debate, but it has to be on your terms.

Learn to debate with good information, then we might be able to have a decent debate.

Opinions are good, but if they are only your view to support the UAW, then how good are they. Look at what you guys have done to Detroit.

Terror tactics (union tactics) don't work on me.

If PUTC wants the UAW or whatever to control this site I suppose it's their decision.

It's not kids like I've been told by PUTC.

@papa jim
I don't think profit in the US is a dirty word.

I think profit is harder to come by and the ones looking for profit are envious. The dirty part of profit is many can see wealth created, but not distributed equitably. This is causing the polarization.

You can see some of the comments here on PUTC.

As for the US being a 'free country', well it might not be as free as you think.

Taxation, consumerism and profit isn't freedom. It is a function of freedom, it is a part of freedom.

Since I've started blogging the past couple of years I have found that many in the US have a different perspective on what freedom is.

Here's an interesting article from a couple of days ago. Read the article, yes income and wealth do contribute, but health like Lou pointed out and many other areas are a measure of how we are as a people.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/05/business/oecd-quality-of-life/

@papa jim,
You state;
"You've been saying eulogies for the US as long as I can remember. You seem to believe that crucial American institutions and American icons are either illegitimate or no longer viable."

My response;
I have never stated I dislike pickups, I own one. I have stated l really enjoyed driving a Superduty when in the US........but I don't have a need for one.

I've even stated I would be interested in a full size diesel.

Your problem is you are living on the past glories of what you remember as what the US was.

Many of the traditional French and British have/had your attitude. They just can't accept the pace at which change is occurring and influence changes globally.

Instead of dreaming of the past, look at what you do that is constructive for the future.

Have you been 'locked' up in a seniors home for a decade or two and you have just been allowed internet access?

But, I will comment when someone passes judgment that is incorrect or deceiving. When a person purposely puts forward a comment of deception I will correct them.

Maybe you just have made many poor and inaccurate decisions.

Or, maybe half of what you comment on is a troll.

@papa jim,
You state;
"You've been saying eulogies for the US as long as I can remember. You seem to believe that crucial American institutions and American icons are either illegitimate or no longer viable."

My response;
I have never stated I dislike pickups, I own one. I have stated l really enjoyed driving a Superduty when in the US........but I don't have a need for one.

I've even stated I would be interested in a full size diesel.

Your problem is you are living on the past glories of what you remember as what the US was.

Many of the traditional French and British have/had your attitude. They just can't accept the pace at which change is occurring and influence changes globally.

Instead of dreaming of the past, look at what you do that is constructive for the future.

Have you been 'locked' up in a seniors home for a decade or two and you have just been allowed internet access?

But, I will comment when someone passes judgment that is incorrect or deceiving. When a person purposely puts forward a comment of deception I will correct them.

Maybe you just have made many poor and inaccurate decisions.

Or, maybe half of what you comment on is a troll.

Another thing about diesels is their fuel to air ratio is variable. A gas engine is always about 15:1 air to fuel, even at idle. At idle a diesel can be higher then 50:1. So having a diesel sitting around idling isn't that expensive.

Also in the Rockies at high altitudes a turbo diesel/gas will out perform a naturally aspirated engine.

The young guys who only look at peak power and torque figures, you don't realise that you don't drive around using peak power. Peak power and torque figure, actually most figures given by manufacturers are given for people like you. Most of you wouldn't know a hp from a kilojoule. So why is it better to always have the most and biggest. That attitude doesn't make any vehicle better or the size.

Peak torque is used much more frequently in driving situations. That's what diesel 'fans' like.

As for the pricing, it seems in the US vehicles are tipped towards premium packages with diesels, ie more standard options. Reducing options and a manual gearbox will reduce prices.

A six speed manual diesel will perform as good or in some situations better than an auto. As good as autos are this day and age I still prefer a manual in a 4x4 offroading.

Also, I hope Ram doesn't screw the release of the Eco Diesel like have been doing lately with some other releases.

It's great to see a diesel in one of your 1/2 ton pickups.

Fiat/Ram is on a winner here. But the others will follow suit rapidly.

I had an idea Ram would be the first.

Projected sales of 10 000 per annum? I think that would be an under estimation.

The first problem is Ram will try and extract as much profit first up. So wait six months or so before you buy one. But when the V6 diesel Grand Cherokee was released here there it took over 6 months to recieve your new diesel SUV.

I think Ford will offer the I-5 Duratorque in the F-150. This engine is manufactured globally and demand can be met.

The Duratorque is also a cheaper engine to manufacture than the VM V6 or the Ford Lion 3 litre V6 diesel.

I pointed out twice that the leading edge of the hood on the Tundra at the Chicago Motor Show had and air scoop for an intercooler, but no one responded.

Toyota being Toyota will most likely offer the 4.5 twin turbo Landcruiser V8. But this will be expensive, but that is what Toyota will do.

I see lots of posts regarding the Tundra's capacity, but why should Toyota build an HD V8 diesel. A V8 diesel Tundra would attract many current HD buyers as it would be competitive against them.

Also, Nissan have the 3 litre Renault V6 diesel we get in our Navara.

GM only has the I-4 2.8. But I have read Caddy will be using them and the output will be increased substaintially over the current 2.8 fitted to our Colorado's.

Sweet dreams.

I have a 3.2 Duratorque (same engine as the Transit) dual cab 4x4 pickup that weighs about 4 700lbs empty.

On a drive a few weeks ago (fishing) I drove about 460 miles return.

I had 3 men and gear for a 4 day fishing trip. I drove at 85mph for about 150 miles, 75mph for 150 miles and the rest at about 65mph. This includes at least 20 over taking manouveres of about 1/2 a mile each past road trains where I accelerated to over 105mph.

So it wasn't an economy run. We finished work at lunch and decided to get to the fishing spot early and sink some beer.

I used sixty litres of fuel or about 16 gallons. This equates to slightly over 26mpg.

Government is going to tax the existence out of diesel fuel as it becomes more popular in pickup trucks.
Think about it?
They hate pickups and suv's cause they cause global warming.
They know white rednecks with money drive pickups and they have the money to pay the extra taxes.
Gasoline tax revenue is down cause people are driving less so they are talking about taxing the amount of miles you drive but it would make sense to tax the people with money that own expensive diesel pickups.
They won't tax gasoline cause the poor middle class use gasoline in their compact fuel efficient cars.
Bottom Line:
You guys are going to be stuck with a $60K- $625/month loan payment diesel pickup and diesel fuel will be $7/gal


another thing: you guys are fools spending an extra $20K for a diesel pickup so you can save $500/year on fuel costs
ha
ha
ha
ha
ha
ha
ha

@ Big Al, I do get tired of hearing about Ram having the first half-ton diesel. Unless they are referring to the one with a Mitsubishi? engine 35 years ago. GM offered the 6.5 diesel in a half ton from '92 to '98 if I remember right. It was not a great seller or a particularly good engine, but it was offered and it did get good fuel economy compared to other truck engines. I am not saying that the Fiat diesel isn't leaps and bounds better and more capable (at least in stock form), it just wasn't the first. There is a stigma in this country against diesels. Truckers who understand what it takes to move big loads long distances and f/e enthusiasts like them. But it seems most people (including the gov't.) still think they are loud, dirty, and slow. It's a shame they won't try one out and experience a real torque curve. Does anyone know if GM went back to work on the 4.5 Duramax for their half tons?

My employer gives me $750/month for vehicle allowance that includes, gas, insurance, wear and tear, any money leftover goes in my pocket,,, I own the vehicle, can sell it, trade it in on a new vehicle.
So I'm NOT that stupid to spend $60K for a 1/2 ton diesel when a pickup HALF that price only gets 5 MPG less.
Do the math: I have $750/month to spend
I spend $60K with a payment of $600/month for a diesel that saves me $40/month in fuel costs.
I spend $30K with a payment of $300/month but I have to spend $40/month MORE on fuel
diesel I spend $560
gas truck I spend $340
(if you include the cost of the vehicle)

@Knowitall

In my area adding the 3.0 diesel option to a RAM crew cab SLT increases the price to just under 40k after the advertised discounts. The same truck, same trim with a Hemi is 33k, same terms applied.

I went to the local RAM dealer's website and double checked just to be sure.

I have a 2014 Ram 6.4 for the oilpatch but if I didn't need the weight capacity the 3.0 diesel would peak my interest for its range.

I don't look at it as a cost recovery ratio but more as a tool that makes my life easier by giving me excellent range between fill ups and based on the figures I'm hearing I could comfortably do a shift on one tank and not have to use the questionable fuel on site.

I like diesel power and am not expecting my trucks to do burn outs. The 6.4 Ram is more diesel-like than the 5.7 or most other gas engines, too.

@mark49
I actually didn't make that comment.

Someone on my behalf did.

It's becoming apparent that PUTC isn't managing this site fairly. Isn't that correct Mark ;)

Ecodiesel this. Ecodiesel that. When am I ever going to see one of these unicorns?

I visit the dealers semi-weekly just for grins and giggles and I haven't seen one yet. And if that wasn't bad enough, where are these so called "phantom" under $40K Ecodiesel Rams?

Perhaps Fiat is hiding them on a different lot or something?

@mark49

BAFO did make that comment. BAFO has been caught out. The power of google is a beautiful thing....

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/02/its-official-ram-1500-to-get-v6-ecodiesel/comments/page/2/


It's great to see a diesel in one of your 1/2 ton pickups.

Fiat/Ram is on a winner here. But the others will follow suit rapidly.

I had an idea Ram would be the first.

Projected sales of 10 000 per annum? I think that would be an under estimation.

The first problem is Ram will try and extract as much profit first up. So wait six months or so before you buy one. But when the V6 diesel Grand Cherokee was released here there it took over 6 months to recieve your new diesel SUV.

I think Ford will offer the I-5 Duratorque in the F-150. This engine is manufactured globally and demand can be met.

The Duratorque is also a cheaper engine to manufacture than the VM V6 or the Ford Lion 3 litre V6 diesel.

I pointed out twice that the leading edge of the hood on the Tundra at the Chicago Motor Show had and air scoop for an intercooler, but no one responded.

Toyota being Toyota will most likely offer the 4.5 twin turbo Landcruiser V8. But this will be expensive, but that is what Toyota will do.

I see lots of posts regarding the Tundra's capacity, but why should Toyota build an HD V8 diesel. A V8 diesel Tundra would attract many current HD buyers as it would be competitive against them.

Also, Nissan have the 3 litre Renault V6 diesel we get in our Navara.

GM only has the I-4 2.8. But I have read Caddy will be using them and the output will be increased substaintially over the current 2.8 fitted to our Colorado's.

Sweet dreams.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Feb 14, 2013 3:46:33 AM

BAFO recylces his old posts and then when he gets called out on it, he blames it on someone else or satellites.

One thing we do know Al has admitted to using about a half dozen different names and he has written some very controversioal and divisive stuff under his main name. This has not been denied. There is also the good possibility of Al using a proxy to get his posts reposted. Al did admit it would be a good idea to repost his posts so poeple can read them again. BAFO IS A TROLL FOR DIESEL AND MIDSIZE TRUCKS and he is a troll against American-anything and full-size trucks assembled by the UAW.

@DeverMike/Paul/Tom Lemon/Greg Baird/TRX4Tom/Dave/Hemi V8/Tom Terrific/sandman 4x4/lautenslager/zveria/Bob/US Truck Driver/Glenn/Jason/Hemi Rampage/smartest truck guy/Maxx/SuperDuty37/Ken/Ron/johnny doe/jim/ALL1/Frank/Idahoe Joe/The Guy/AD/Casey/papa jim/Young Guy/BeeBe/Steve/Chris/The truck guy/Alex/Mr Chow/Yessir/All Americans/Scott/Buy American or say Bye to America/Ram Big Horn 1500/Hemi Monster/Tom Wilkinson at Chevy, mark49, Tom#3 or whoever you want to call yourself.

Quit the crap, really.

It's getting long in the tooth.

You want to debate, but it has to be on your terms.

Learn to debate with good information, then we might be able to have a decent debate.

Opinions are good, but if they are only your view to support the UAW, then how good are they. Look at what you guys have done to Detroit.

Terror tactics (union tactics) don't work on me.

If PUTC wants the UAW or whatever to control this site I suppose it's their decision.

It's not kids like I've been told by PUTC.

It's the satellites. The satellites in OZ cause BAFO'S posts to bounce around and re-post.

@HEMIMONSTER
"@Mark Williams
Until attention is given to the comments section, these "fake" users will continue to make this site the laughing stock of auto journalism sites. Many of us reap great benefit from the articles here, but if the comments section is allowed to run wild, then people will never give this site the full respect that it deserves."

I agree with you. My name is continually used and the comments remain. Maybe MARK WILLIAMS can apply the same standard to everyone on this site.

Without the support of the moderator there isn't much choice that you have. Then if the moderator is selective on what comments are deleted, then you know this site is going down the tubes.

@beebe
I do think you comment regarding the quantities of diesel 1500 Rams sold is unrealistic.

The take up for diesel is actually quite good. Diesel will not just come in a dominate. It will take a decade or so.

All Ram have to do is increase diesel Ram sales by a few percent every year. I did read an article stating that Fiat has a limited capacity for the production of the VM diesel.

If there aren't any sales of the diesel yet, I would assume the demand is high enough taking into account engine availability.

@Big Al
@Knowitall

So, if buying the Ram 1500 with a diesel adds 5k or 6k or more to the price of the truck new, (offset) then take a moment to calculate how many miles you could drive a new Hemi Ram 1500 before the last dollar of the offsetting is spent.

For $5k I can buy a lot of unleaded regular blend. In my neighborhood these days it's running about 3.50 per gallon.

You do the math. The diesel has to give you crazy mileage to ever make the case for the extra cost of that option in terms of FE. If extra performance is the goal of owning a diesel, I think the 3.0 is a little shy of the target. The Cummins V8 would win my vote.

@papa jim
The price of the Ram might be affected by the supply side of the diesel engine. If they are fewer, then the diesel engines will have an "unnecessarily" higher premium.

From what I can see most of the diesel Rams are in high end trucks.

How many 'work' trucks, ie, single cab have the VM fitted. This is where the cheaper 4 cylinder diesel would do better.

The VM and most any other V6 diesel were designed for the premium Euro market. The Renault powered V6 Nissan Navara here in Australia has a $10 000 premium over the 4 cylinder diesel. The V6 Renault engine was for the prestige end of the Euro market.

The VM was designed for Caddy, not a cheap pickup.

Maybe once your pickups lose some weight the 4 cylinder diesels will become attractive. The 4 cylinder diesels have been gaining in horse power and FE as of late and soon would be able to power a full size. Nissan even trialed a 2.8 ISF Cummins in a Titan that returned over 28mpg average.

The 5 cylinder diesel fitted to my BT50 is a truck like diesel as well. It would actually be acceptable in a F-150. But the F-150 would have 10+ second 0-60mph times.

The F-150 would also get at least 30mpg on the highway and cruise at 90mph day and night.
That's why I'm hoping for the 2.8 ISF Cummins and similar engines to do well.

LOL, just 8-10% take rate. This diesel thing is being made a bigger deal than it needs to be.

Diesel versus gas. It used to be a no brainer... You bought Gas. I mean who wanted a diesel Oldmobile in the late 70s? or wanted to pay 2K over the price of a 460 for a reliable/efficient yet VERY slow IDI 6.9/7.3 and forget about GMs 6.2 POS... Then came cummins 5.9, Powerstroke 7.3 and a bit later the Duramax. The Game TOTALLY changed. These engines had POWER, were Reliable, amazing mileage and were so very very cool. Admittedly they were expensive but did i say they were powerful and efficient. Not to mention gas was cheap. Although diesel has always cost more than gas (only in America due to obsolete tax regs) gas was still cheap... And for the next 15 years it was again a no brainer only a dolt would choose a gas over a diesel even to just goof off with an drive his ass to work and look cool in. I mean the mileage was soooo good and it was sooo cool if you had the money to blow who cared if you never really worked it. Now here we are and the diesel option on a truck is over 6K. They still make AMAZING power but now have complicated recirculating boiler soot burning ERG flux capacitor nucler urin DEF drive exhaust intercooling variable nose picker systems to meet new emissions standards yet still make that crazy power. Lets be honest reliablity and fuel efficienty have suffered. The 2nd to the point where its not all that much better than a gasser if you arent towing/hauling every day as gas is cheaper at the pump and you save that 5,6,7K up front on the truck and on the interst you pay for the 5,6,7 years you finance a 50/60K truck. Not to mention how much more expensive work on a modern diesel is compared to a gas. The truth is to justify a diesel in ANYTHING you have to drive/work the mother loving stuff out of it FOREVER. Studdies have shown that you would need to drive a diesel VW 350K to justify the diesel option, over 400K for a Chevy Cruz! Not too many people have seen that odometer roll that many times. So the truth is IF you work and I mean WORK a truck on a DAILY basis pushing, pulling, hauling and are going to rack up the miles (200+K) then it makes sense. If you arent working your truck daily Gas is once again a better option. I miss the days when one could drive a diesel truck just because it was cool and only be considered mildly foolish with his money.

Chrysler is working to increase production of the diesel engine in Europe that powers the 2014 Ram EcoDiesel pickup. Bigland said demand for the diesel model — which many customers say is topping the 28 miles per gallon fuel economy label — has exceeded expectations.

“Frankly, the demand for diesel has really surprised us,” he said.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140626/AUTO0101/306260098#ixzz360wZoe81

I want a 5.0 cummins diesel engine with power 400 horsepower and 800-1000 Nm. I don't want a vm motori !!!!!!!!! Does ist sheisen motor

Clint, Very well said. Diesel engines have major problems. Gas engines are perfect for half-tons.

Not sold on the Eco-Diesel until Mike Levine drives one.
Mike? you're wasting your time driving the 3.5 EB in the 2015 F-150, cause its the same engine as the 2014, you should be driving the F-150 with the 2.7 EB

Why would Mike Levine drive an EcoDiesel? He left this site 3 years ago and works for Ford now. You mean Mark Williams?

Clint
I second the motion of very well said!
diesels are a modified engine to run a less expensive grade of dirty fuel, its a gas engine that's severely out of time so friction can heat up the cyl walls so it has plenty of heat to ignite the diesel fuel.
a diesel must need a turbo or it wouldn't have any power at all, where a gas engine can run w/o a turbo.
bottom line:
the diesel engine is a very fragile engine that counts on outside help and heavy modification for it to run
nobody makes a turbo that lasts forever.

I think you guys owning the new Eco-Diesel are taking a big gamble if that engine will be reliable or not.

@Tom#3
Wow!

What a load of trash you just wrote.

The cylinder walls heat up to ignite the diesel??? Boy.

I suppose we can refer to diesels engines as "hit the wall combustion";)

Also, explain how the VM diesel will be unreliable. I don't think the VM V6 diesel uses "hit the wall combustion". If it did it would prove itself unreliable.

What do you know of the VM V6 diesel that indicates reliability issues down the track?

Will the reliability issues be fuel related? Bearings? Engine module? The rear cable tie that secures the ABS line to the left rear?

Come on, fill all of us in on your knowledge.

Or, just keep on trolling.

There's two kinds of buyers.
Those who want the "Eco" (that would be me)
And those who want the a super-capable engine for towing or just making a lot of racket and smoke.

Now setting aside that I wouldn't buy another Chrapsler due to a really bad prior experience, even if I would, I would certainly pay an extra $3k for the diesel if the diesel was smaller and got better MPG. I will not consider anything with mileage in the 20's for my next vehicle purchase. Not even for city. That is just unacceptable and there's alternatives in heavier vehicles that prove that 28mpg hwy is a forkin joke.

So "eco" diesel my ash. It's not good enough.
Now lets ask some of the people who like noisy, smokey engines and also those who need to haul stuff. Oh yeah. Not noisy enough. Not smokey enough and not capable enough.

So the two primary groups of buyers, at least as they are found on this site, have already disqualified this product. The only people then who would buy it are those who are dumb and think 28MPG is something to feel good about, especially when diesel costs 50-80 cents more per gallon in 48 out of 50 states and that gap will only widen as the demand for diesel grows world wide.

Diesel is 10 years too late.
Ram Eco Turd is not eco friendly. That's a farce.

Have a nice day.

@Clint,

I think I get your point. You shared some perspective about this discussion dating back to the products being offered back in the 1970s/1980s up to today.

Whether diesel or gas, the big three have vastly improved their drivetrains in pickups and passenger cars during that period for three basic reasons

1. advances in software and electronics allowed for improved design
2. advances in software and electronics in the engines and fuel systems produced huge gains in power and economy
3. advances in software and electronics have produced huge improvements (albeit with added complexity) to the automatic transmissions available today

There's also the pressure that foreign car makers added to the north American market, but that's another topic. Competition is usually a plus for consumers.

Companies like Ford and Fiat know what their dealers and customers are asking for. Expect to see more new product development during the next few years.

Back in the 1970s people like MaXx and Big Al were busy predicting the end of the world and had no clue that huge improvements in truck product and quality were in the pipeline.

Big Al
I didn't make $130K income last year by being stupid

Put the 3.0 4 cylinder out of the van in a jeep wrangler ASAP!

"Diesel Engine's Popularity Isn't a Problem for Ram and Jeep"

Because it's not that popular. 8% for the ecodiesel and 92% for the gassers is a landslide victory for the Hemi and Pentastar.



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