I can't wait! Monday can't come sooner!

Looking forward to it.

Cue the trolls! For the love of christ disable comments Mark!!

Ford and GM lose.

RAM wins both competitions, gas and diesel. To bcome the first ever UNDISPUTED Heavy Duty Challenge champion in PUTC history!

You heard it here first.

Hemi HD what are you 12....only children like you care about brands, you probably cant even afford a truck.

Looking forward to it Mark Williams. Remember to air down when off roading. ;-)

Unless the SAE J2807 standard is used this test is worthless.

Looing forward to it also!
Looks like this time it's going to be more apples to apples with the gears.

Looking forward to the article, but not the comments.

My take on just the performance side of this:

The Ram 2500 6.4L has a good chance to win in the gaser 250/2500 which is a no brainer since it is the most powerful of all three engines wise. I have not seen the dyno of the any of these engines to truly know where their power lies, but the power lead on Ram's 6.4L is significant. Although the 6 speed transmission in the Ram 2500 has considerably taller gears than the Ford and GMs gear for gear. Ram's 1st gear is 3.23:1 while GM's is 4.02:1 and Ford's is 3.97:1. Ram's 2nd gear is 1.83:1 to GM's 2.36:1 and Ford's 2.32:1. This is the case for all gears to where the Ford F250 is actually putting down more torque to the ground than the other two through torque multiplication. In the HP, the Ram 2500 has it. It will be interesting to see where all these stack up mileage wise with Ram's 6.4L having MDS.

In the diesel 350/3500, it is a toss up. The new Ford 6.7L has the bigger power numbers, but it will come down to when that power is achieved and how long it can keep. The one thing I herd that is bad in the previous Ford 6.7L is it's engine brake compared to the others. They say they have improved it. I guess we will have to wait and see.

* looking

I think Ford will have a weight advantage do to their C-Channel frame. Hope no fires occur during testing.

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news/2014/1408_spied_2016_ford_f_series_super_duty_prototype_goes_down_in_flames/photo_06.html

@Hemi V8

You do know that every Peterbilt, Kenworth, Freighliner, Volvo truck, Western Star, Cat, International, or every other tractor trailer on the road has a C channel frame as well right? You want to know how much weight those things pull with their "noodle" C channel frames? In all actually, a lot of Peterbilts and Kenworths even have aluminum cabs, and have so for decades.

The pictures in my above post clearly show a fire extinguisher
amongst the chard rubble. So much for the theory of the test engineers letting the truck burn beyond recognition.

@All1, True. Now look at the difference between C-channel frames on a big rig vs Ford super duty. You will notice the big rig has a taller C-channel frame. Don't now the numbers but i would guess 5 inches on the Ford vs 12 inches on the big rig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f3CAnH7WIM

Only All0 would try to make believe that a C channel frame is as strong and as good as a fully boxed frame for these pickups.

What will Ford do next go find one of their old AeroMax semi's and re-label it a F850 but strip it down until it is a shell of its former self so that it weighs 14,000 pounds so they can try to claim the best in class tow rating?

After all Ford is know for this kind of crap.

Only one manufactures trucks in this test will meet SAE J2807 standards and those trucks are the Ram 2500 and Ram 3500.

The Chevy/GMC 2500 and 3500 do not meet the SAE J2807 standard and neither are the Ford F250 and F350 SAE J2807 compliant.

Looks like Ram wins by default because it is not fair to make them compete against Chevy/GMC and Ford when both Chevy/GMC and Ford are still using their magic spring dust and magic towing dust.

After all the Chevy/GMC trucks and Ford trucks would fail the SAE J2807 standard.

@Hemi V8,

Stay Classy, no matter the outcome.

Hemiv6, spam little horn or whatever other name you go by, how stupid are you really? Is there a stupid meter you go by or you just naturally stupid. Talking about the FORD test mule that burned. Yeah they pushed it really hard with all that camoe on it and it got too hot. FORD learned something. How about that spam truck that burned in front of the journalist as he stood there with the keys in his hand?? No camoe and yes it was a production model. What if that truck had been sold to the public and burned and hurt or killed someone?? What if that journalist had been in it and it burned?? Your just beyond stupid. You are eat up with the DUMBAS$ for starters. An IDIOT on top of that. I feel sorry for your mommie and daddy cause the better part of you ran down your daddy's leg that's for sure!

Like that one picture of the spam and the SUPERDUTY at the dragstrip. That fiat spams getting its as$ handed to it!

PUTC ?

PLEASE ! Don't show it !
Don't pick a winner and loser!
Be like the car magazines and say all nice things about every truck and nothing bad.
I like reading the calm and intelligent comments but everybody is going to fighting and insulting, calling names, bragging , cutting down, curse words.
We don't need that.
If the Ram comes out on top its going to be a mess in here.
All the fighting and bickering will last till Christmas!

@Ram Big Horn

"Only All1 would try to make believe that a C channel frame is as strong and as good as a fully boxed frame for these pickups. "

I dd not say that or mention it. I just stated other trucks that have C channel frames.

"Only one manufactures trucks in this test will meet SAE J2807 standards and those trucks are the Ram 2500 and Ram 3500. "

False, the Ram's in this challenge are 2014, not 2015.

To take a snip from Chrysler's own media announcement on their website.

"Beginning with the 2015 model year, Ram will become the first automaker to adopt the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J2807 standardized tow rating practices across all three fullsize pickup truck segments, including the ½-ton Ram 1500, ¾-ton Ram 2500 Heavy Duty and one-ton “King of the Hill” Ram 3500 Heavy Duty."

Notice they said "Beginning with 2015 models", and notice how the Ram trucks n this challenge are 2014 models since the 2015 aren't available yet.

In all actuality, the tests performed in this challenge does not matter whether these trucks are J2807 or not. They are not testing for J2807. They are giving each truck the same load and see how they do with that load and comparing them. This has nothing to do with J2807, and has more to do with how well each one does given the same task.

J2807 is a standard and is not a law. If it were the case that all trucks that aren't J2807 would automatically loose every competition by default to those that are J2807, then the Toyota Tundra would have won the the 2013 Light Duty Challenge and all other challenges since 2010. You act as if it the end of the world that a truck is not J2807. You also act as if the others trucks will fail J2807 even though you have no data to back that up. If you say they well fail or have lower numbers then fine, but at least post you proof backing that up.

"Only one manufactures trucks in this test will meet SAE J2807 standards and those trucks are the Ram 2500 and Ram 3500. "

False, the Ram's in this challenge are 2014, not 2015.

To take a snip from Chrysler's own media announcement on their website.

"Beginning with the 2015 model year, Ram will become the first automaker to adopt the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J2807 standardized tow rating practices across all three fullsize pickup truck segments, including the ½-ton Ram 1500, ¾-ton Ram 2500 Heavy Duty and one-ton “King of the Hill” Ram 3500 Heavy Duty."

Notice they said "Beginning with 2015 models", and notice how the Ram trucks n this challenge are 2014 models since the 2015 aren't available yet.

All0,

Please play the link and listen carefully:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpKZ29jrHro#t=12

Notice that those who bought 2013 and 2014 customers can be assured they meet the same standards.

I know this is hard for you to understand but at some point you just have to open your eyes and admit Ram did their homework and they hit a home run.

Notice the insults are not being started by the Ram fans.

Truck crazy is the one starting the insult show against Rams.

So those who cry about it look in the mirror because one of your own "Truck Crazy" is the one throwing insults.

Then you have the likes of All1 who still refuses to admit that Rams are and have been J2807 compliant since 2013 and the link has been provided and I will once again provide the link for the proof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpKZ29jrHro#t=12

Let the Chevy/GMC and Ford fan boys whining begin.

All0 says:

You act as if it the end of the world that a truck is not J2807. You also act as if the others trucks will fail J2807 even though you have no data to back that up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL, if Ford and Chevy/GMC could pass the SAE J2807 standard with their current trucks as they are they would be screaming from the highest mountain tops that their trucks are SAE J2807 compliant.

The fact is Ford is having to do a ground up redesign on every truck they sell to meet the SAE J2897 standard because their current trucks will be so down rated that Ford will be shown to have been a fraud for all these years with their magic spring dust and magic towing dust.

The same with Chevy/GMC.

Like I said, if you didn't start it, then there would be no need for anyone to say a word little stupid hemi and fiat big horn. Your stupidity never ceases to amaze. WOW!!

WOW!!!!!

why not 2500 diesels being tested? I see more 2500 diesels on the roads than gassers. I like the gas test also but 2500 diesels should have been tested with the group.

Interested to see how the 6.4 hemi does the diesels are out of my price range and needs. Wish they would build a 6.4 with 8 speed 1/2 ton.

@Big Horn

"LOL, if Ford and Chevy/GMC could pass the SAE J2807 standard with their current trucks as they are they would be screaming from the highest mountain tops that their trucks are SAE J2807 compliant. "

Okay, using your theory then why didn't Ram say " Beginning with the 2014 model year" or even "Beginning with the 2013" for their J2807 standards? They say they haven't changed anything drive train wise since 2013 yet no 2013 and up year model J2807? Why is that?

Ford stated a few years ago that it will apply the J2807 standards to their next generation F150 model in 2015 and then to their next generation F250/350/450 model when it is new in 2016. They stated this long time again yet some of you guys seem to forget this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"The fact is Ford is having to do a ground up redesign on every truck they sell to meet the SAE J2897 standard because their current trucks will be so down rated that Ford will be shown to have been a fraud for all these years with their magic spring dust and magic towing dust. "

And Ram hasn't?

Since the J2807 adoption by Toyota 2011, the Ram 1500 has went through many alterations. The power output of the Hemi has been upped. They dropped the 4.7L and 3.7L in favor for more power 3.6L V6 and 3.0L diesel. They went from a 5 speed transmission, to a 6 speed transmission, and now to an 8 speed transmission. They got a higher strength steel added to their frame in 2013 along with electronic power steering instead of power robbing hydraulic power steering. They also added air suspension as well.

In 2011, Ram stated that a 1500 SLT 5.7L Hemi regular cab long bed 3.92 2wd is rated to tow 10,450lbs. Today, with all those improvements I stated above, Ram has the very same truck with an 8 speed rated at 10,450lbs. Why is it that the old Ram is rated to tow the same as the new Ram with all the changes that have been done with it since 2011? Do you think Ram was making their truck match their numbers? Yes, they were just like every other make has done besides Toyota who adopted the J2807 with their truck as is.

The Ram 2500/3500 has also gone through power train and increase in power changes in their trucks since 2011.

Since 2011 Ford has not changed a thing in the F150s power train, drive train, suspension, or frame.

Irony at its finest.......... I complain to Cars.com brass about the quality of these blogs and they delete my comments.

Ram 2500 with the 6.2 should be able to win that portion of the shootout. It has the newest and on paper the most powerful motor. It also has the most car like suspension giving it an edge in ride and handling.
How will it fare with 2k in the box?
TFL Truck did a simple test and the Ram lost to the Chevy and Ford. That was a surprise.

The HD dually shootout will be interesting. Ram again is the favourite but TFL truck and Ford video's show the Ram loosing.
GM has always had an excellent powertrain with the Duramax/Allison combo. I'm going to cheer for the underdog Chevy even though it probably does not stand a hope in hell.

@Big Horn

Are you still spreading your bullsh!t?

You always have a million and one opinions backed by nothing

@ Big Horn

"They are the ones who start a truck and hold the gas pedal to the floor."

The reason why they have the gas to the floor is because the truck doesn't have enough power to keep the speed limit even when you are giving it all it's got. Go tow 7,600lbs with that Ram of yours up a grade 7 at 9,000ft above elevation and see how long you would have to keep the pedal to the floor just to try to keep up speed.

in the second picture in this article it appears to be a drag race and it appears the ford 6.2 is well ahead of the 6.4 ram doesn't it???? Wonder if they are given hints to the results of the gas shootout portion of this test with that picture.

Heck, I'd buy a new Ram HD if I didn't think the whole Fiat/Chrysler mess was going to be out of business in 5 or so years.

@scott - I think that the Chevy with the 6.0 is seriously outgunned in this shoot-out. It was killed by the Ford and Ram in the 2010 HD shootout.

It would be an upset if the Ram with 6.4 gets beat by the Ford.

The SAE test is the key parts of it were copied from Fords test book. The Davis dam pulls were started by ford & were copied by putc & sae so don't be sitting here saying the ford can't do it or that the comparison is worthless. Put a ton of cargo in each truck & drive it. Which one does the best? I bet it's the truck without ficking coil springs in the rear. Ford said all along they would support sae & would follow it when they transitioned to a new model, wether the old one could pass it or not. GM did the same thing & so is Ram so stfu about it. Each truck gets the same load & is tested with the same test it's still showing the capbility. Gripe trash talk or whatever you want the core of the SD is 15 years old & the other 2 have now finally caught up. Congrats & welcome to the party - finally!

As far as comments, please guys. If you don't have something novel to say please don't post. All1 said some interesting things in his first post and the rest was pointless bickering with the ram guys. The guys are always saying the same thing post after post. WE GET IT! You like ram! Please just PRETEND you are a grown up when you post!

Hemi HD started in with his pointless "ram wins ford and Chevy lose" childish post.

Then ram big horn starting in with some dumb excuse forwhy the test is worthless.

Then hemi v8 bringing up a fire on a ford test truck just to stir the pot.
Then ram bighorn complaining about the ford frame just to stir the pot some more.
Truck crazy and others calling people names like third graders
Grow up people!

Go FORD....hope the order finishes just like that top picture with the trailers hooked up at the track...

I see the Ford and Chevy/GMC fan boys are playing their don't pick on me blame game again.

You Ford and Chevy/GMC fan boys have cried for the SAE J2807 standard for a long time now that it is hear and Ram has followed it with all three models 1500, 2500 and 3500 now all of the sudden its, well so what if Ram passes the SAE J2807 standard.

I am not impressed with drag racing any of these trucks. It is a useless test.

To All0,

Look at the TFL videos at the beginning of the videos, they show a picture of the rear of the trucks exhaust pipe and they start the engine while holding their foot to the floor and the engine goes from zero to max rpm and it is held there. Why?

That sure is not good for the engines and it shows how juvenile TFL is, then you have their videos where they have one of the guys speaking I thinks its germen for a good portion of the video, completely stupid.

Manufactures need to refuse to give that bunch of clowns access to trucks.

@kmac

So if the SAE J2807 is nothing more than Fords own test copied by SAE then why does Ford refuse to adopt the SAE J2807 standard on their entire line up as it should pass with ease, after you have just confirmed that it is Fords own test.

Yet Ford refuses to certify its current trucks under the SAE J2807 standard. Instead Ford has had to redesign their entire line up of F150, F250 and F350 trucks so they don't take a huge hit in their Tow and Payload capacity.

You can dance around the SAE J2807 standard all you and come up with all the excuses you want but the proof is in the pudding.

The only reason Ram did not follow the SAE J2807 from the start is because Ford backed out and Ford backed out because their current trucks would have been down graded and that would have shown how much Ford has lied through the year about their trucks towing and load capacity.

@beebe,

Funny how you always only point to the Ram fans and you always ignore the Ford and Chevy/GMC fans.

It only took until post three in this thread for Hack to start the ball rolling with his troll comments followed quickly by post five by twitchersnowhound to call a Ram fan childish.

Then at post twelve All1 shows up with his but but but semis use a C-channel frame so it must be the best garbage.

Then we come to post eighteen and nineteen with good old Truck Crazy throwing his BS and insults.

It seems you Ford and Chevy/GMC fan boys can dish it out but you can't take it.

Great the Ramtards messing up another comment section crying like 3rd graders and acting like 3rd graders only 4 comments in.

I hope the Ford 6.2 super duty blows the Ram 6.4L hemo engine right out the water. The diesel well it will be a close match between the Power Stroke and the Duramax, with the Ram dragging up the rear like always.

I'd expect the ram to excel (2500) in the unloaded ride but suffer greatly in payload and towing because of the coils in the rear.

Wish they would listen to there market and not the ideas of the engineers.

So this is news that their will be news on Monday?

@Scott: I would say the engineers know more about how things work than you do. After all, 18-wheelers have been running on coil springs for quite a while now and even railroad cars have been running on coil springs for over 40 years. Coils CAN carry the load AND give a better ride.

All1: you made some comment about why the "old Ram " trucks can tow as mush as the 'new Ram trucks" while having all the improvement made to the new? and why don't the new Ram tow more? or something to that effect? But I can answer that and it is very easy to see why, and that is it is NOT because they wanted to be able to tow more, NO it is because they wanted to IMPROVE the MILEAGE the new trucks get over the OLD trucks!

I wish all GM, Ram and Ford good luck. I like to see the unbiased results when they come out. That means all bumpers, spare tires, and jacks remain on the vehicle AT ALL TIMES. And NO F-450 against one-ton class 3 trucks! Get it? Got it? Good. Again, good luck.

I don't really understand the big deal about J2807 being a problem right now. Aren't all these trucks 2014 models and the standard don't start until 2015. Seems like someone just wants to stir the pot and keep the argument going. They are all nice trucks but again they are 2014 models. Go figure.

@ Roadwhale,

Quite true that coils have been used in heavy applications. But Ram does not use the coils needed to retain the payload and towing.

Engineers or not, they need heavier coils to preserve the capabilities.

There own towing and payload ratings are what they (engineers) have recommended.

@ram big horn first off it was hemi hd & yourself that started in with the flame war comments. That proof is black & white above. 2nd, I drove & worked all 3 brands. So have members of my family. We buy work trucks. Work trucks don't have coil springs in the rear. The ratings on paper are just that. It's a number for the lawyers to use when there's a claim that comes in from someone that did something dumb. No one has proven either way what rating the current trucks would have under the sae std. I could care less what either set of numbers are I know what the trucks are capable of. With ford doing key parts of the test already & releasing the numbers they have, my personal experience is they traditionally under rate their trucks. The others seem to be right on the edge. The 2.7 EB vs 3.0 ecodiesel pull is a good example. Neither truck was close to capacity, yet the ram was rated for more but finished last. Ford isn't always first with everything but usually offer the best pkg in capability. Esp under constant load with boxes & towing there's 1 truck that holds up day in & out while the other 2 gasp for air or fall apart. So all the chirping here from the fanboys will not change what I've seen first hand for years.

Now if you'll excuse me I got work to get done. It's Friday!

I don't really understand the big deal about J2807 being a problem right now. Aren't all these trucks 2014 models and the standard don't start until 2015. Seems like someone just wants to stir the pot and keep the argument going. They are all nice trucks but again they are 2014 models. Go figure.

Posted by: Tailgate | Aug 8, 2014 9:34:32 AM

The SAE J2807 standard has been out for a few years now, Ford backed out of it because their trucks would have taken the worst hit and exposed them for the frauds they are on their towing numbers.

Ford is currently only going to have their ground up redesigned F150 SAE J2807 certified and we have yet to see what the real numbers are for the 2015 F150.

Chevy/Gmc backed out of the J2807 standard because Ford did and Ram ended up following suit.

Ram decided they had nothing to loose by certifying all of their trucks which includes the 1500, 2500 and 3500 series for the SAE J2807 standard. In fact Ram has been compliant with the SAE J2807 standard since 2013 they just did not certify their trucks due to Ford backing out.

If you don't want J2807 to be an issue than tell both Ford and Chevy/GMC to certify all of their trucks today under the SAE J2807 standard.

Toyota met the SAE J2807 standard in 2010 with there Tundra, Ram now meets the SAE J2807 standard officially with their entire line 1500, 2500 and 3500 trucks in 2015 but both the 2013 and 2014 model years would also pass the SAE J2807 standards. In fact not only did none of the Rams ratings go down under the SAE J2807 standard but some of the Rams rating actually went up under the SAE J2807 rating.

No spinning just facts.

@Big Horn

"No spinning just facts"

Facts? Where are these considered facts?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The SAE J2807 standard has been out for a few years now, Ford backed out of it because their trucks would have taken the worst hit and exposed them for the frauds they are on their towing numbers. "

The J2807 has been out since late 2010. Toyota was the only manufacturer to adopted the standards to their trucks in 2011 trucks as is. All other have had time to tweak their truck to meet standards. Ford stated back then that they will until their next generation model coming out in 2015 to adopt the standard. They never got in the standard so it is hard to back out of it as you say. Where is you proof that Ford will take the worst hit? You expect me to just believe what you say?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Chevy/Gmc backed out of the J2807 standard because Ford did and Ram ended up following suit."

Again, Ford said they would adopt the rating in 2015 so they never backed out of anything. Ram followed suit earlier saying they will adopt the J2807 in 2015 as well.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ram decided they had nothing to loose by certifying all of their trucks which includes the 1500, 2500 and 3500 series for the SAE J2807 standard. In fact Ram has been compliant with the SAE J2807 standard since 2013 they just did not certify their trucks due to Ford backing out. "

Show me a link where Ram stated their 2013 and 2014 are J2807 certified as well. Ram didn't have the Ecodiesel or the 6.4L in 2013 so how could they be J2807 certified in 2013? Also, have you looked and compared the 1500 tow ratings from 2013 to 2014? Have you noticed they are NOT the same. Some had a slight decrease (look at the 5.7L models with a 3.92 rear end) and others had an increase. While you are at it, compare the 2012 6-speed models to the 2013 6-speed models. Notice the decrease there in the 5.7L with a 3.92 rear end?

The biggest decrease was with the 2500/3500 trucks. Look at the Ram 2500 5.7L Laramie 2wd 6-speed with a 4.10 gear ratio. In 2013, it was rated at 13,900 lbs going by Rams charts, but in 2014 it dropped to a 13,380 lbs tow rating. The same truck with a Cummins and a 3.42 rear axle ratio dropped too. In 2013, the rating was 17,740 lbs and it dropped in 2014 to 17,350 lbs. While you are at it, compare the 2012 numbers to the 2013 numbers since these were essentially the same trucks with the same transmission and power plant. Notice the drop there too?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Ram now meets the SAE J2807 standard officially with their entire line 1500, 2500 and 3500 trucks in 2015 but both the 2013 and 2014 model years would also pass the SAE J2807 standards. In fact not only did none of the Rams ratings go down under the SAE J2807 standard but some of the Rams rating actually went up under the SAE J2807 rating. "

This is false, read above.