Comments already reflected this when last week's story about this was posted. Ford's long retooling is going to temporarily hammer their sales. It's a calculation that Ford made.

No story here, folks. Move along.

Comments already reflected this when last week's story about this was posted. Ford's long retooling is going to temporarily hammer their sales. It's a calculation that Ford made.

No story here, folks. Move along.
Posted by: papa jim | Oct 6, 2014 2:14:31 PM

Did ford also calculated they will sell 43% less in Russia for this year so far?
Ford is in troubles and really need the aluminium f150 to fly.
I don't think it's gonna happen for the price they are asking.

Clearly, Ford buyers are waiting to be able to get their all-new 2015 F150 and 2016 Super Duty. I'm surprised sales hasn't dropped more than what it has. It's still competing extremely well with its old outdated trucks against GM's brand new trucks.

I wondered why Al Mulally did not stay to see this project through? He may not be a big hero of Fords when this is over.

I do think once Ford drops sales they will not be that easy for Ford to bring back.

Ram has proven it's market share is rising and rising faster than it's competitors.

I do think Ram would be nice if it had a decent payload and the front end didn't look Korean'ish.

GM will actually make much larger inroads into Ford with the new Colorado.

Ford will also have to contend with the next Titan, Tundra, Taco and Frontier/Navara.

I don't see Ford having an easy ride in the future.

Pricing will be important with the new aluminium F Series.

But then will we see profits erode out of Ford propping up the aluminium trucks.

Mark Williams, could you post a breakdown of pickup truck sales by classification (1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, etc.) like you did a few months ago?

The biggest mistake you people that post messages here on PUTC is you think all new pickup buyers think the same way you do!
99% of people wanting to buy a new pickup never heard of PUTC.
Most people don't follow the news and know about all the recalls Chevy has with their trucks so they are selling great!
Nobody knows the Ram Hemi engines are made in Mexico.
They are going to buy the first truck they test drive not knowing and not caring how better or worse the other brand is.

I admit it! I didn't know the Ram 1500 was better than the F-150 until I became a regular here on PUTC!

@ I'm to sexy for my truck Tom#3

"I admit it! I didn't know the Ram 1500 was better than the F-150 until I became a regular here on PUTC!"

And you are allowed to have this opinion, but remember that it is just that, an opinion.

As far as the topic, I wonder what will happen to the other manufacturers when they finally switch to aluminum.

@PUTc, Please ban Tom#3 for spamming.

I don't see any Korean ish ness in a Ram, but living Down Under can make a person's opinion be upside down.

Ford is introducing 24 new and/or significantly revised vehicles globally over the next year. That is going to have an impact on short term productivity and profits.
The operative word being short term. Ford has been talking about this in their development plans and financial statements for some time now.
Most people are not aware of this and that is blatantly obvious in many of the posts.

I'm with papa jim on this story this is as expected and not a real story. This is temporary.

@ALL1
Most (not all) full size trucks will have to go to aluminium. This isn't Ford's making, but caused by regulatory requirements.

The aluminium F-150 wouldn't be possible without Alcoa's bonding technology. If GM got into bed with Alcoa it would be GM. But maybe GM did. The GFC did retard the GM aluminium pickup.

I do find it odd that a mid sizer is still able to be made of steel considering the footprint method of determining FE under CAFE.

So, I do believe if a manufacturer can still produce steel full size trucks it will do okay.

It will be able to be priced more competitively.

Just because a vehicle is of aluminium doesn't make it a magical vehicle.

They are still trucks doing the same things as SUVs.

The comments made regarding payload and towing really aren't that significant. If it was, then why is Ram with it's tiny payload selling like it does, and increasing as well?

I think the manufacturers are concentrating on what they perceive is significant more so than what the consumer thinks is significant.

It appears most who are concerned about 0-60mph times and tow capacities are the ones who never utilise those capabilities.

I do agree with Tom#3, this is PUTC and it has it's share of sponsored commenters and fan boi's.

Most people who buy a pickup don't buy for the reasons most argue on this site. Most will buy to a budget. If you can buy a vehicle to do what you want for less you will most probably invest your money into it.

That's why full size pickups did well, along with some protection. They were cheaper than alternatives. Now though, I do think this era is coming to an end.

I do find this intriguing. But, PUTC is cleaning up it's act and I do find the site much better.

@Lou_BC,
I was aware of it has been in the media for some time now.

But, there are risks involved. Ford will lose some and it will win some. Not all will bear fruit.

My problem is the aluminium F-150. It is an expensive exercise. Risky at that.

I wonder what figure Ford has to make the F Series profitable. As we are seeing Ford is really losing sales to Ram and even GM. Will a more expensive pickup fix this?

If the pickup is priced competitively how much will Ford lose?

Even vehicle like the Colorado will impact Ford. What if the next gen US midsizers are appealing and even if they take only a couple hundred thousand sales from full size trucks.

The next Titan and Tundra might eat into HD and the more traditional pickup owners.

I do see a changing makeup of the pickup market in the US. It might not be all Ford's way.

How much will Ford lose if the Ranger is necessary to challenge the Colorado and next Taco/Frontier?

Interesting.

The sales numbers in this article are in conflict with the monthly sales figures for Sept from this site showing Ford outselling the Chevy/GMC combined by 27595 units.

The article is talking about the September monthly figures outselling Ford. You are correct the yearly totals are not outselling Ford.

This is a real hot issue, but it says a lot that 1 of Ford's factories has to be down for GM's new trucks to outsell Ford. It also says a lot that 1 of Ford's factories has been down for a month and they are only down 1%.

@BAFO

I did not know that my 2014 Ram 1500's 1,590 pound pay load was considered tiny.

You Ram haters really need some new materiel.

Put away the hateraid Ram haters.

Oh wait that's right you Ram haters found a way to configure a Ram with every option you could get on it and the price ended up being over 60,000 dollars.

In reality you built a truck that no one would build in the first place.

@Paul

Except customers do not go to the factory to buy a truck, there are plenty of Ford trucks on the dealer lots and here in Florida there are dealers advertising up to 14,000 dollars off MSRP.

That does not sound like they are trying to hold onto those Ford trucks to me.

@Big Al

"Most (not all) full size trucks will have to go to aluminium. This isn't Ford's making, but caused by regulatory requirements."

GM and Ram leadership has both stated they will be going aluminum in the coming decade. I think we all know why they are going to aluminum. Do you actually think most people here do not know why?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"The aluminium F-150 wouldn't be possible without Alcoa's bonding technology."

And your point is? You wouldn't be possible without your mum.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I do find it odd that a mid sizer is still able to be made of steel considering the footprint method of determining FE under CAFE."

How do you know this? Where did you get the data to know this? Also, are these engines getting this FE weak gutless little engines?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"So, I do believe if a manufacturer can still produce steel full size trucks it will do okay"

Yeah, but with a weak gutless little engine where power is sacrificed.

------------------------------------------------------------

"It will be able to be priced more competitively."

A diesel option is over $4,000 even for the small 3.0L Ecodiesel so how is that priced competitively in comparison?

---------------------------------------------------------------

"Just because a vehicle is of aluminium doesn't make it a magical vehicle."

No, and no one ever said an aluminum vehicle is magic. However, lightening up a vehicle will have a tremendous positive effect on many aspects.

----------------------------------------------------------------

"They are still trucks doing the same things as SUVs."

And?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"The comments made regarding payload and towing really aren't that significant."

That is your opinion and you are allowed it.

------------------------------------------------------------------

"I think the manufacturers are concentrating on what they perceive is significant more so than what the consumer thinks is significant."

And you know the US buyers better than the manufacturer's analyst do? Although, as this is your opinion, you are allowed to have it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

"It appears most who are concerned about 0-60mph times and tow capacities are the ones who never utilise those capabilities."

And you are concerned about FE so what is your point? People car about different things and have different reasons for buying their vehicle. Some like bells and whistles, some like capability, some like FE, and some like power so singling one out as wrong is being wrong yourself because it is just your opinion.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Most people who buy a pickup don't buy for the reasons most argue on this site."

I beg to differ, but just as you are allowed this opinion then so am I.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Most will buy to a budget. "

Well duh, and everyone has a different budget. Some can only afford a stripper and some can afford the top of the line while most will be somewhere in between.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"If you can buy a vehicle to do what you want for less you will most probably invest your money into it."

That depends.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"That's why full size pickups did well, along with some protection."

Yay Chicken Tax! So what if they are what you considered protected. Whether it is a good thing or not is up to opinion. It is funny that you think it is a bad thing yet you don't even live here so what's it to you that the chicken tax is still in effect. You act as if it somehow effects you personally and that a truck line not having a diesel options is the end of the world. Oh, and did I mention, Yay Chicken Tax?

@Big Horn

"I did not know that my 2014 Ram 1500's 1,590 pound pay load was considered tiny."

Uhm, is that what your door sticker says? That is before options so if you got any options then it will be less than that. It is probably around 1,500 lbs.

------------------------------------------------------

"You Ram haters really need some new materiel."

And you don't bash anything? Hmmmm? Like you saying Ford's towing numbers will go down with the new J2807 standard when it actually went up by 2,400 lbs?

Doesn't Ram Horn 1500 drive something like a basic, basic, fleet special 2x4 regular cab? That configuration probably makes up 1% of total sales and for any other brand payload would probably be at least 500lbs higher.

@LittleHorn - 1590? The highest rating is in a V6 Pentastar 4x2 quad cab at 1,830. V8 is 1672 in a crew 5'7' box 4x2.

If one lives in a dry climate without any need to go into any tough situation then 4x2 is fine.

The competition easily out performs Ram's cargo capacity even in the heavier truck configurations.

Ram needs to offer a max cargo option but they most likely NEVER will (at least not in this truck's lifespan). They would need to engineer a stronger frame and suspension. Ford had 3 different frames for the F150. That was pared down to 2.

@ALL1 Oh god better watch out, little horn and little al will being crying a river now HAHA! I'll go get the pacifiers LMAO!

@ALL1
That is my view. I'm not a fanboi like yourself or the Ram guys. You are blinded by self inflicted ignorance.

Ford has a challenge with the aluminium trucks. That's how I see it.

Ford will still sell the F Series in significant numbers. But will the numbers be large enough to offset what the outlay was.

Look at it this way, if the Colorado sells in very large numbers of say 150k. What will Ford do?

What if the next Frontier and Taco improve the segment. What will Ford do?

What if Ram keeps on improving at it's current rate for another 12 months. What will Ford do?

I do see Ford is going to be forced to maybe introduce the global Ranger. I do see Ford will lose F Series sales away.

I see possibly HD Titan and Tundras taking Super Duty sales.

I only see a harder market for Ford. Ford will still be a force to reckon with, but not like it is now.

What I just summised is extremely probable, you Ford guys might not like it. But I also did discuss this several years ago as well.

@Big Al

"That is my view. I'm not a fanboi like yourself or the Ram guys. You are blinded by self inflicted ignorance."

Oh here comes the "you are beneath me" me comments. I as well as others here disagree with you on you being a fanboy. You may not have a certain brand, but you have a major bias towards anything diesel.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

"Ford has a challenge with the aluminium trucks. That's how I see it."

I agree with that. Just as they did with getting people to accept the Ecoboost engines.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Look at it this way, if the Colorado sells in very large numbers of say 150k. What will Ford do?

What if the next Frontier and Taco improve the segment. What will Ford do?

What if Ram keeps on improving at it's current rate for another 12 months. What will Ford do?"

Adapt and strive to improve just like any manufacturer does.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"I do see Ford is going to be forced to maybe introduce the global Ranger."

Funny because I don't . I see a smaller more compact truck than the Global ranger, but not the Global ranger. Besides, the global Ranger would be very limited here. Due to Class 1 6,000lbs GVWR restrictions, a 4,523lb (2052kg) crew cab 4x4 with a 3.2L diesel would only have a 1,477lb payload before any options here. That is not bad for what it is, but if this things is so close to the cost and size to an F150 then there would be no point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"I see possibly HD Titan and Tundras taking Super Duty sales."

I will also agree with you there and I think Ford should also pick up the Cummins 5.0L as an option in the F250.

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"What I just summised is extremely probable, you Ford guys might not like it. But I also did discuss this several years ago as well."

Really, well I didn't see it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do think it is funny how you switched gears all of the sudden. Not one word in this response from you about FE, CAFE, or chicken tax.

I do think your "FE is the only thing that is important" mentality that you keep peddling is not shared by US truck buyers. There are so many dynamics in just one persons purchase decisions let alone millions so to narrow it down to just one thing as the most important for all is thinking rather highly of yourself. I am not saying FE is not important, but that it is all about how much FE a buyer is comfortable with versus other things.

You may have one person who is more concerned about FE and does not mind making some capability or comfort sacrifices to get it. You might have another that is not as concerned about FE as long as it is above a certain number like 18mpg and would rather have more power and capability than the 28 mpg truck. Then there are those that will be more concerned about the bells and whistles and interior options. Then there are some that is just concerned about buying a certain brand or certain engine. There also also those that don't even need a truck, but like being in a bigger vehicle off the ground like a car. Or take me who is concerned about the truck meeting my capability criteria and wanting more power without too much concern with FE as long as it is in the upper teens on the highway.

There are many more dynamics than that so to say only one, like FE, is the only valid concern is a rather ignorant mindset.

@ALL1
So far your responses have been very open with little substance, but some Ford rhetoric. You have yet prove or disprove any comment I've made.

You, as any troll does attempt to move the discussion into a different direction with your comments regarding FE.

As you must realise now I do have a considerable amount of knowledge in my arsenal.

Do keep it up, as you are doing harm to Ford like the Ram guys did to Ram.

@Big Al

"So far your responses have been very open with little substance,"

And your's haven't?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"You have yet prove or disprove any comment I've made."

Because most of your comments are opinion with little substance.

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"You, as any troll does attempt to move the discussion into a different direction with your comments regarding FE."

Oh, now I am a troll. So I moved from being beneath you, to being of no substance, to a troll just for disagreeing you. Uhmm, who was it that first called who out in their post? I know I didn't specifically call you out until you called me out so that must have been you.

Then you say I am trying to move an argument in a different direction even though he was the first person in this blog to mention FE.

"I do find it odd that a mid sizer is still able to be made of steel considering the footprint method of determining FE under CAFE.
Posted by: Big Al from Oz | Oct 6, 2014 4:14:35 PM"

That looks like it was you first again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"As you must realise now I do have a considerable amount of knowledge in my arsenal."

It sure doesn't seem like it. I mean, are you reading what you post cause from this post because if you were then you probably wouldn't have made this comment.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Do keep it up, as you are doing harm to Ford like the Ram guys did to Ram."

And you are making every US citizen here glad you moved to Australia.

So my question to Mark Williams(not Lazy boy experts)

Is a truck considered "sold" when the manufacturer delivers it to the dealer lot? or when the customer takes it home?
What about leases?

Does this happen consistently across the industry?

Correction:

t sure doesn't seem like it. I mean, are you reading what you post cause if you were then you probably wouldn't have made this comment.

@All1,

So you are now saying that Ford has SAE J2807 certified their 2014 F150 trucks?

Apply the SAE J2807 standard to the 2014 Ford F150, F250 and F350 series trucks and Ford will lose capacity.

Hell Ford had to fudge the numbers yet again with their F450.

It is yet to be seen if Ford really does use the SAE J2807 standard with their new fully redesigned from the ground up F150 trucks.

We already know that Ford has decided not to apply the SAE J2807 standards to their 2015 F250 and F350 trucks. I guess they have a lot of that magic spring and towing dust still in stock.

I also find it very hard to believe that Ford saves at most on their largest cab F150 trucks 700 pounds yet they are going to claim 2,400 pounds more capacity.

Sorry but the math does not add up but that never stopped Ford and their magic spring and towing dust in the past either.

LOL, does the guy in the Ford video even have a green card or a work visa?

Looks like Ford is taking full advantage of all the Obama illegal immigration.

@Big Horn

"It is yet to be seen if Ford really does use the SAE J2807 standard with their new fully redesigned from the ground up F150 trucks."

Yes, it is J2807.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"I also find it very hard to believe that Ford saves at most on their largest cab F150 trucks 700 pounds yet they are going to claim 2,400 pounds more capacity."

Because you are so focused on them losing tow rating that you failed to see they gained tow rating. Yes, I will claim a 2,400lb gain from a 2014 configured truck to an identical 2015 configured truck.

You see, the max tow F150 in 2014 was only with 3.73 gears which gave you a non J2807 tow rating of 11,300lbs. However, there is no longer a 3.73 gear option for the 2015, and the 3.55 is now the max tow gear option. In a 2014 with a 3.55 gear, the most it was rated to tow was 9,800lbs. The same 3.55 max tow truck in 2015 is J2807 rated at 12,200lbs. That is a difference of 2,400lbs.

Quit looking for the F150 to loose rating and you might understand it better. It is not magix spring dust, it is J2807 rated like you have been complaining about. It is funny that you say Ford has magic spring dust when it gains rating going by the same J2807 standard yet you don't say the same about Ram's 300lb gain. Why is that?

The fact is that the Ford dealership lots are full of Ford pickups but they are not selling as well as the competition. The last two months show that and now the Ford boys are making excuses why they are not selling. If the Ford lots were empty with no new pickups, then your excuse is valid. But the lots are full of pickups so just admit it that Ford pickups are not a favorite anymore.

Ford is only .4% off last year sales numbers with an outgoing body style and its considered a failure??? they will still sell 750,000 trucks in the US this year and add in canadian sales which they will easily sell over 100k up there they will sell 850,000-900,000 old trucks. Heck between US and canada ford has sold 660kish trucks as of September of this year. If they get there 15's on the lot by years end you will see a uptick in there numbers this year. With the an aluminum half ton and a 2016 aluminum super duty with increased capacities they will easily push over a million trucks in the US and Canada by the end of 2016. Ram might eclipse over 500k trucks combined but have a long way to go to catch ford on production ability as they are about maxed out. I don't think Ram has the production capability or facilities to hit the numbers ford currently produces even with dearborn shut down for overhaul. At full ramp up of Dearborn truck plant can produce 63 aluminum f150's an hour. If there is a demand that means that plant can put out over 500k trucks a year. Kansas City should be able to put out another 400k trucks running at full tilt if need be once up and running. Fords Super duty is going to be hard to change over as there is only one plant for US and Canada and that is kentucky. Maybe that is where the OHIO plant that used to produce the e series and is now producing the f650 comes in. They could set it up to build the 2016's before they come to market and then convert Kentucky. Ram has only 2 plants and that is Warren and 1 in Mexico. They don't have the manufacturing might to make the switch to aluminum so that is why they are refraining from it till next decade which will eventually hurt them hard. They are hyping it hard and calling it an achievement just to get 300k trucks out of Warren this year which it has never produced that many. Dearborn was putting out 64 f150's an hour prior to shut down for change over.

You can hate on ford all you want but in the truck game they are and will continue to be what the others strive to be. The 2015's are going to be flying off the lots when they get there with eager customers.... Just like the ram eco diesel customers and how they fly off the lot.

"However, there is no longer a 3.73 gear option for the 2015"

Let me clarify that this is only with the 3.5L EB. The 3.73 ratio is still available in the 5.0L, 2.7L EB, and 3.5L N/A.

For the past 20 years Ford has altered their F 150 250, & 350 to included everything up to the F950. Anyone with a brain knows this, except PU.com and the mentally challenged who buy Fords. GM has out sold Ford on pick ups for over 25 years now. GM didn't care that Ford lies like a rug The sad thing is a supposed quality web site like PU.com show how unprofessional they are in recognizing this. As the old farmer said when he pulled into my buddies driveway in a new Chevy 350, "I've owned Rams & Fords for the last 50 years, this Chevy is the best truck I've ever owned wil will never buy another Dodge or Ford". He won't have to, at age 80 the Chevy will last another 50 years.

I for one am waiting for the 2015 f150 before I make my purchase. I'm about 90 percent sure I want a 2014 ford but still I'm waiting.

@Beebe

Here is a sneak peak of some of the 2015 numbers. Check out those payload ratings and curb weights. Who needs a 3/4 ton with ratings like that.

http://s25.postimg.org/f7c1od6cf/10252066_706137132813985_8676940201114664138_n.jpg

I will buy RAM 2500 V8 HEMI 6.4 MDS.
You live only once.

@Beebe

Here is a sneak peak of some of the 2015 numbers. Check out those payload ratings and curb weights. Who needs a 3/4 ton with ratings like that.

http://s25.postimg.org/f7c1od6cf/10252066_706137132813985_8676940201114664138_n.jpg

It is 3/4 ton with busybee.

@zviera

"It is 3/4 ton with busybee."

Then don't buy one. Easy as that brah.

I could say have fun with that busy beetle 6.4L of yours having to rev well past 4,500 rpm in first gear not even able to do 30 mph, but I won't be an anus.

So basically what this is saying is that it took GM this long for their NEW truck to outsell a truck that has been out since 2010 (2011 year model) which has a body that hasn't changed since the 2008 year model oh and by the way one of Ford's biggest factories is shut down. Way. To. Go. GM.

@All1
"It is 3/4 ton with busybee."

Then don't buy one. 

Did I say I am going to?

I contacted my insurance co and asked what the cost would be to insure the new aluminum 2015 F-150, they wasn't aware it was aluminum and unaware if the cost would go up plus they can't give me a price w/o a vin number but they told me there are more important factors such as my credit rating and past driving record that effect my insurance cost. They told me it shouldn't be a big change just because its aluminum.

My local Ford Dealer treats me good and the local Ram and Chevy Dealers are crooks.
Its a really tough choice what my next truck will be, I admit I am hunting for excuses against the F-150 but its my most safe choice right now but I won't win any friends by owning one.
What do I do?

GM Trucks suck, they brag about sales for 2 months, but make 2 trucks t compete with one, lame chevy trucks are dumb, and they have copied all there technology from ford, cough fully boxed frame.

@ALL1
I can't see Ford using the Cummins 5.0L engine, they have a 4.4L that's being used in Land Rover vehicles

@zviera
I did a build and price on 2014 and 2015 f150. It tells you the payload and towing of the truck you build. A supercab long bed 4x4 with ecoboost actually has a higher towing and payload 2014 vs 2015. I'm actually considering trading in both my ram 1500 and f250 one for a 2014 and one for 2015 f150. The 2014 has higher payload than my f250 but 2000 pounds less towing. But it has double the payload and 4000 pounds more towing than my ram.

Considering the fleet of trucks I see at my local Ford dealers, I find a shortage of supply an unlikely argument to this slowdown. Two of the three dealers RELY on truck sales and they both have lots full of trucks.

Worse, I can't even take my old whale in for service because every time I do, I get two or three salesmen coming in while I'm waiting trying to get me to look at the latest models on the lot. And every time I tell them that the trucks are just Too Damned Big!